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View Full Version : Changes to Loot Tables for Tier 2/3/4 LockBoxes



PhantasieTrion
07-04-2014, 06:29 PM
Good day ark hunters,

You will notice one change in an upcoming patch that we wanted to inform you of in advance, rather than have the community be surprised about after the patch notes were published.

We have been aware of a discrepancy between Tier 2, Tier 3 and Tier 4 lockboxes with respect to how much arkforge they drop. Specifically, the T4 amount of arkforge was also being dropped by T2 and T3 lockboxes Ė meaning the T2 and T3 lockboxes were much more valuable than intended. T2 and T3 boxes should drop arkforge that corresponds to their tier, instead of matching T4 (and - for what itís worth - the loot tables even existed to drop less, it was just missed when they were set up originally).

This change to T2 and T3 lockboxes will go live in an upcoming patch (and there will be a patch note about it).

Please note: This change does not affect any item or outfit drop percentage; it is specific to arkforge.

We wanted to post this early to give the community early notification. And, if you are so inclined, you may want to take advantage of the current T2 arkforge loot tables before the change is applied. :)

Error404
07-04-2014, 06:44 PM
Lovely. Less bang for our buck as usual.

Chump Norris
07-04-2014, 07:04 PM
Sigh I knew it..Im so happy for those that complained about having to break down all the green gear from T2 boxes. GJ guys you won.

Holy Bahamut3
07-04-2014, 07:20 PM
They probably noticed that T2 usage was Waaay up and T4 was non existent. Once again a big screwdriver to the community. At least they thought enough to warn us this time. I would hope they would garentee AF drops for T4's. Otherwise T2s will still be overwhelmingly more useful as you have way more roll chances at AF over nades for the same amount of keycodes. If they garenteed AF drops on t4s then people would have a REAL choice in purchasing lockboxes. Go for the garenteed drop, or use the keycodes at a chance to pull more AF.

Error404
07-04-2014, 07:25 PM
They probably noticed that T2 usage was Waaay up and T4 was non existent. Once again a big screwdriver to the community. At least they thought enough to warn us this time. I would hope they would garentee AF drops for T4's. Otherwise T2s will still be overwhelmingly more useful as you have way more roll chances at AF over nades for the same amount of keycodes. If they garenteed AF drops on t4s then people would have a REAL choice in purchasing lockboxes. Go for the garenteed drop, or use the keycodes at a chance to pull more AF.

4 blues or higher.
1 grenade, stim or spike
50 forge, guaranteed.

THAT would make T4s enticing...

Jasper Townsend
07-04-2014, 07:27 PM
Here's an idea--leave the T2 box the way it is and make the T3 and T4 boxes better! That would be really appreciated.

Error404
07-04-2014, 08:05 PM
Here's an idea--leave the T2 box the way it is and make the T3 and T4 boxes better! That would be really appreciated.

I'm guessing you haven't been here long? Trion's idea of 'better' is changing mechanics players love, reusing old content, more HP and a 'longer more fulfilling chase' which translates to: Disconnects, frustration and terrible *** drop rates.

Midori Oku
07-04-2014, 08:07 PM
Here's an idea--leave the T2 box the way it is and make the T3 and T4 boxes better! That would be really appreciated.

I agree with you. Just make the higher tiers better, not nerf T2 boxes.

nathanpbutler
07-04-2014, 08:08 PM
I have to echo Error404 (perhaps the most amusing forum name I've seen in a long time, by the way):

Tier 4 lockboxes have never really felt worth it. I've pulled far more oranges from T3 lockboxes than I ever did with T4. To just get weapons that you'll end up salvaging because they're mostly useless, T2 - T4 lockboxes have tended to be pretty much the same.

If the idea is to give us incentive to desire, work toward, and maybe even (ridiculously) spend real money on bits for T4 lockboxes, they need something that's a guarantee that puts them above their lower counterparts. A guaranteed amount of arkforge, or a guaranteed MINIMUM amount of arkforge, which would leave the actual amount to randomness if necessary, would be a big step in the right direction.

As it stands, saying that there will be "less chance" of arkforge in lower tier boxes is not going to be enough of a difference between T2/3 and T4 to justify T4 lockboxes for most of us, especially those around since launch. Might pull in some new F2P players at first, though. But why do something just to sucker newbies when you can choose to proactively do something to benefit the entire player base *and* possibly draw in new revenue at the same time?

Etaew
07-04-2014, 08:13 PM
Thanks for letting us know earlier, it's only recently I started mapping the amounts and drop rates on DD. While I am happy that there will be more of a distinction between the Arkforge in the lockbox tiers it feels wrong to be lowering the amounts.

Results and rates so far:
Tier 2: http://www.defiancedata.com/lockbox.php?id=2
Tier 3: http://www.defiancedata.com/lockbox.php?id=3
Tier 4: http://www.defiancedata.com/lockbox.php?id=4

TANKballs
07-04-2014, 08:45 PM
This is why you don't post about things that nobody wants to be fixed. Thank you to every gd person who posted "i always buy t2 boxes because they drop more forge..." when when when will you people learn???

Lucent
07-04-2014, 09:09 PM
This is pointless and stupid change. :(
If you buy T2, you take the gamble: probably crappy gear but maybe Arkforge.
T3, T4, better gear and maybe Arkforge to boot.
Why change it? The community is very very very happy with the way it is.

Listen, PhantasieTrion, just cause you go on the livestream and gain all your swooning fans with your charming face doesn't mean you can drop this bomb on us and not have there be sad and frustrated responses all around.

Please do not implement this change. I accept that I pull absolutely garbage for weapons from T2 because I hope I can get some Arkforge from the trash. When you are high level and have most of what you want... why would I open T4? If the drop rate for AF stays the same in T4 as what T2 has then T4 would be so so wasteful and pointless.

Bar6arian
07-04-2014, 10:03 PM
WOW just wow. Why do you give a crap what tier I get Arkforge from? I expect higher tier lockboxes to give us better chance at rarity weapons but that hasn't really been happening. I've been playing before you Phantasie so I have no other reason than to TRY and improve my weapons by upgrading rarity and/or rerolling masteries. I've lost 200 (Blue to Purple) to 500 Arkforge (Purple to Orange) from upgrading because sometimes the bonuses are worthless to a weapon and it gets scrapped. It's not a perfect upgrading system but I understand it's a gamble. Plus rerolling masteries at 75 Arkforge a pop just to get what you want. But now this along with constant disconnects, what's the point. Focus on server stability. And let's be honest when you change the loot tables, you break them.

Jaydogg
07-04-2014, 10:26 PM
wait.... if t2's had t4's drop rate for arkforge then all the times ive bought 12 t2's in a row and got no arkforge is what the t4's are paying out? lulz trion acknowledged everyone buying t2's the day after arkforge was released. this is just greed for the upcoming free 2 play

Deirachel
07-04-2014, 10:40 PM
I have to question the reasoning of this change.

Phantasie, I've tried, repeatedly, to point out lower prices on things in the store will increase sales/profits (more sales at lower prices will bring in more money than some sales at high prices).

Prior to DLC5 and Arkforge, most experienced users had already figured out the T3 boxes were the best value for the keys. If you want to encourage people to buy T4s, then INCREASE the value of the T4. Make the odds of getting an orange significantly higher than the T3 (+2% ain't gonna cut it). Guaranteed ArkForge. Something. Anything!

Additionally, even if the T4's Arkforge drop is 100AF and the T2 is 20, the smart player will still buy the T2s. Why? Because you get 8 chances at Arkforge (Maximum using the above numbers 160AF) vs. 1 Chance at Arkforge (100AF) per 64 Keys.

This does seem to be a money grab at first and second glance (either through Arkforge bit sales, or trying to push the Key Slots bit sales). Money grabs are bad for business.

MAMGRIZZLY
07-04-2014, 10:51 PM
This is why you don't post about things that nobody wants to be fixed. Thank you to every gd person who posted "i always buy t2 boxes because they drop more forge..." when when when will you people learn???
I have to agree with Tank. When will everybody learn to stop posting everything on forums and KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! Stop telling everybody how to get the most AF/OJ's, best place to farm or anything else. Tell your friends/clanmates. I'm so sick of this, people post First rule of Fight Club...but people keep blabing.Are you all special? Loose lips sink ships!

Midori Oku
07-04-2014, 11:14 PM
I have to agree with Tank. When will everybody learn to stop posting everything on forums and KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! Stop telling everybody how to get the most AF/OJ's, best place to farm or anything else. Tell your friends/clanmates. I'm so sick of this, people post First rule of Fight Club...but people keep blabing.Are you all special? Loose lips sink ships!

You do know that Trion keeps track of what players do in game, right? They knew that players were buying T2 lockboxes more often without even having to look at the forums. They can/do look through data to tell what players gravitate towards doing and using.

MAMGRIZZLY
07-05-2014, 12:47 AM
You do know that Trion keeps track of what players do in game, right? They knew that players were buying T2 lockboxes more often without even having to look at the forums. They can/do look through data to tell what players gravitate towards doing and using.
Yes, I do know that, but a lot of things they've found out from people posting on the forums. We've seen this over and over.

Big Jack Shepard
07-05-2014, 01:55 AM
Nothing surprising here. Just Trion being Trion. Because of this I am going to discourage friends from returning when f2p arrives. I know many people who sold their discs but might want to come back for f2p.

DeadEye68
07-05-2014, 02:08 AM
I'll join those saying the problem never was T2s being too profitable (well maybe just a little bit), but rather T3/T4s not being profitable enough. As usual nerfing/buffing stuff will go from one extreme to another as we should be used to from games.

T4s were never a great a way to get gear, and since rarity upgrade was implemented they completely fell off the grid. If anything, T3/T4s should be made worth buying them.

Roez
07-05-2014, 02:21 AM
If that's the drop rate for T4, then I'll assume the amount of Arkforge for T3 will drop to maybe 1/3 as often? (that seems very low, as that's my go to box). It's counter intuitive, but limiting arkforge might very likely drop the demand, and it's not necessarily going to keep people around who buy it with cash.

It's the same lesson Blizzard learned recently with Diablo III; a game where grinding out items is fairly equivalent to Defiance's end game. Blizz increased the drop rate of the best items to 100% (more actually), and those items just like Defiance might not have the rolls the player wants. It's a lottery. Allowing people to experience the lottery more (and still have a reasonable chance at getting what they want) encouraged people to play alts, and gear up different play styles. That is, people played more and did more with the game because they were able to experience more content.

Arkforge is used to upgrade items' rarity at end game. It's a random chance you get what you want, so it's also lottery. If that lottery is drawn out to rare attempts, it's not fun, and then all of a sudden there's not much to do.

hiban
07-05-2014, 03:39 AM
The amount of arkforge you get from T2 boxes is higher because the number of T2 boxes you can buy is higher.

The solution is not to nerf T2 boxes, but to boost the stuff you can get from T3 and T4 boxes, which is right now not worth spending the keys.

Nerfing the T2 boxes will only make people stop spending keys on lockboxes, and saving the keys for other stuff.

It's funny that the patch will not affect the rare weapons drop rate, which is the only problem of t3 and t4 boxes. (they always drop useless junk weapons, while the opposite is advertised in the box description)

stefb42
07-05-2014, 03:48 AM
Looks like you're trying to force us to buy arkforge, not gonna happen, ill just buy a new game, 30attempts to roll the desired mastery, might be fair enough if there were 30+ masteries to roll from, but when you just keep getting the same craptastic rolls over and over, I'm not gonna be spending my cash on that, that was over 2000 arkforge

if you're going to Nerf the drop rate, you could st least do us the courtesy of making the matrix work properly, rolling the same mastery twice in a row or more isn't really on, swapping between the 3 worst masteries for a gun isn't really on either, all weapons in the matrix at the same time rolling the same purple roll isn't really on either (especially when its grenades)

maybe you could fix it so that a gun will run through every mastery when resetting it, saving us veterans some arkforge in the process, could maybe half costs for using the matrix, or even reduce them to 80%, see i don't have 10 hours a day to play video games, can usually get a couple of hours a day once the Mrs and kids have gone to bed, yeah that's right real life gets in the way for most of us normal people

or you could do like suggested earlier and adjust t3/4 instead of nerfing t2, or slightly reduce drop rate in t2 instead of the amount, or even just leave it as it is, its starting to feel like you're trying to drive us more casual players away which is a shame because were the ones who stood by this game all the way from that shaky release, every iffy change drives more day 1 players away and most ain't returning

shame you cant fix the lag or disconnections, critical errors, floating items, floating arkfalls, enemies spawning underground/in walls etc as quickly as you fix the stuff that's beneficial to us (bet you could fix all that in a jiffy if it was granting us arkforge, keycodes or extra scrip) , but that just shows where the priorities are, you just worry about the profit

hiban
07-05-2014, 04:02 AM
Yeah, i've been trying to get a 1.10x critical mastery bonus roll for my OJ Wolfhound, and i have already spent over 2000 Arkforge with no result. It's highly frustrating, i had a good amount of arkforge saved, and i'm running out of it trying to get a single mastery roll. I have rolled several bonuses repeated several times, but not the one i need. It looks like if the game knew what i wanted and it was trolling me.
Keep T2 boxes the way they are now (which is currently the only reasonable way to get arkforge), give us a better way to find arkforge, or fix the mastery rolls so they rotate instead of being random.

yue
07-05-2014, 04:03 AM
Thanks for letting us know earlier, it's only recently I started mapping the amounts and drop rates on DD. While I am happy that there will be more of a distinction between the Arkforge in the lockbox tiers it feels wrong to be lowering the amounts.

Results and rates so far:
Tier 2: http://www.defiancedata.com/lockbox.php?id=2
Tier 3: http://www.defiancedata.com/lockbox.php?id=3
Tier 4: http://www.defiancedata.com/lockbox.php?id=4

What did you expect ? That's why I raged about you doing this when it first started . The only thing you did is just give them a reason to nerf . Guess what there nerfing it now . I hope you're pleased with yourself

Roez
07-05-2014, 04:04 AM
Looks like you're trying to force us to buy arkforge, not gonna happen, ill just buy a new game, 30attempts to roll the desired mastery, might be fair enough if there were 30+ masteries to roll from, but when you just keep getting the same craptastic rolls over and over, I'm not gonna be spending my cash on that, that was over 1000 arkforge



Therein lies the problem. They are trying to take the game in a direction it was not designed around. Nearing max EGO level is completely different than sub 4750 EGO leveling when it comes to Arkforge use.

Arkforge when I was leveling was not very common--at least with T3 purchases. Including the 1k I got from buying the Season Pass, I had just enough to keep my OJ shield upgraded from 1k EGO to max, and once in a while a nice weapon here or there if nothing else had dropped. That's just the rating, and not the rarity. I don't see that as overly plentiful. Reducing it to 1/3 (of the T3 drop chance) sounds like it will basically be luck, and the rare odd thing.

Near max EGO level, it's reasonable to want even more arkforge, because you need to roll an item many times to get those rolls you're looking for. This includes the blue to purple to OJ rarity upgrades, and seeing if they work out, along with remastering the weapons too. At these levels it's about the OJs and the rolls; not whether you can get by with a purple for another hundred EGO until a new weapon drops.

In either case, making things plentiful does not mean it's dropping the demand as a result of oversupply, or vice versa. It's counter intuitive. Econ 101 supply and demand curves are based on limited variables, and the 'all else equal' context. If people are having fun with a system, and want to do it more, they might actually spend more (ie, increase demand). Hard to test it really without playing around with different iteration and seeing, but that's my running theory.

yue
07-05-2014, 04:12 AM
Yeah if we could get a set rotation in rerolling xp roll that would be a justification to nerf the t2 boxes . Example just say for argument sake there are a total of 10 possible rolls for a type of gun . 1 st xp roll is let's just say crit . Well if you are looking for mag roll then you will know you will get a mag roll and only have a maximum of 9 more tries . But then if for some reason you 're rolled it after getting the roll you wanted you would have to go thru the whole list again . I bring this up due to the arkforge nerf and my 97th ( I counted ) 're roll on my canker .
I feel this would be fair . You can still make the rolls random but just have it on a cycle

DeadEye68
07-05-2014, 04:14 AM
What did you expect ? That's why I raged about you doing this when it first started . The only thing you did is just give them a reason to nerf . Guess what there nerfing it now . I hope you're pleased with yourself

That, Sir, is a steaming pile of horse manure. Trio didn't need player feedback to point out this so-called "issue", believing otherwise is just plain paranoid AND naive.

stefb42
07-05-2014, 04:15 AM
snip
It looks like if the game knew what i wanted and it was trolling me.
Keep T2 boxes the way they are now (which is currently the only reasonable way to get arkforge), give us a better way to find arkforge, or fix the mastery rolls so they rotate instead of being random.

^this
so it isn't just me noticing this, i too feel like the game knows what I'm after and withholds it from me, please if you absolutely have to Nerf the t2, then at least cycle through masteries(and individual rolls when they're added) i get that you wont always get what you want first time, but it would be nice to know we were going to get it and every failed attempt puts us 1 step closer to achieving it

hiban
07-05-2014, 04:37 AM
Note that the current arkforge drop rates from lockboxes are the following:
T2: 16%
T3: 24%
T4: 32%

T2 lockboxes cost 8 arkforge, T3 lockboxes cost 24 arkforge, and T4 lockboxes cost 64 arkforge.

So, suppose you had 6400 keys to buy lockboxes:

If you buy T2 lockboxes, you would get 6400/8=800 boxes. (800/100)*16=128 arkforge drops.
If you buy T3 lockboxes, you would get 6400/24=266 boxes. (266/100)*24=64 arkforge drops.
If you buy T4 lockboxes, you would get 6400/64=100 boxes. (100/100)*32=32 arkforge drops.

From player experience, we know that buying T2 lockboxes is a semi-good way of getting arkforge. Not really easy because it requires several hours of playing, but the best we can find ingame.

Why don't we get T3 and T4 boxes? Because weapons on those are mostly blue junk with the same value of the green junk weapons from T2 boxes.
You want us to buy T3 and T4 boxes? make them worth buying.

- Keep T2 AF drop rate as it is. It is reasonable.
- Buff the AF drop rate in T3 and T4 boxes. Make T3 32% and T4 64%.
- Buff Legendary weapons drop rate in T3 and T4 boxes.
- Make T4 boxes drop minimum Epic rarity weapons. Hell, that would be interesting!

Yrkul
07-05-2014, 05:52 AM
Looks like Trion wasn't selling enough arkforge.


What did you expect ? That's why I raged about you doing this when it first started . The only thing you did is just give them a reason to nerf . Guess what there nerfing it now . I hope you're pleased with yourself
What saddens me more than the upcoming nerf, are the people attacking others for helping with advice and much needed game info. Etaew is doing more for the community in a single week, than any of you little misers did in an entire year! Some people.....

Etaew
07-05-2014, 06:02 AM
What did you expect ? That's why I raged about you doing this when it first started . The only thing you did is just give them a reason to nerf . Guess what there nerfing it now . I hope you're pleased with yourself

People were posting on the forums and using T2s for Arkforge long before the data collection. So making some rates public may not have been the trigger you think it is.

SxB_xPUDDYTATx
07-05-2014, 06:04 AM
6-14-2014
i have to agree with chump on this point though. trion has a proven track record on things like this. the oldest example i can think of off hand is the frc saw. it was the most cherished weapon in the game at one time, but it was way more powerful than any other weapon in the lmg class. instead of buffing all the others (i know one got a small buff, cant remember which) trion nerfed the crap out of the saw. i could easily see this being the fix for tier 4 boxes. insted of granting more arkforge, or more frequent drops. i could only see them lowering the amounts/rates in the tier 2 and 3 boxes, if they did anything

a month ago, i posted the above comment in another thread. people kept discussing the drop rates, kept urging for something to be done, and now that it has, everyone is upset about how it is being handled. honestly, it was not hard at all to know exactly how this was going to play out.

DSW
07-05-2014, 06:22 AM
another slap in player's face... another step in admitting that trion don't need you playing, but need you spending bits to do what you could've do without it previously, another step in going P2W.

also +million for everything that was said about T3/T4 boxes stupid drop rate on weapons. hey, most of my oranges are from T2 too!

drackiller
07-05-2014, 06:44 AM
People were posting on the forums and using T2s for Arkforge long before the data collection. So making some rates public may not have been the trigger you think it is.

Yup, some people stil don`t get it.
If it`s really good...please, keep it to your self.

But hey, they like to brag about it.

Deikon
07-05-2014, 06:46 AM
While I agree that reducing anything that has a potential gain for the players does seem kind of sh$&ty, I feel like the OP's post could and should be read in a different context. He seems to be saying that the drop AMOUNT is being changed, not the DROP RATE. Having bought almost nothing but T2s since DLC 5 dropped (for the arkforge, duh!), I have noticed many times I got 50 AF from a T2. <-------- This is what is likely to be changed, NOT the chance to drop AF. Although a little clarification from the OP would go a long way.........

stefb42
07-05-2014, 07:04 AM
Well it's pretty obvious from the OP that it's the amount that's being adjusted not the drop rate, this still leaves a huge decrease in arkforge being pulled from lockboxes in general, and remember this is trion, it's highly unlikely that they'll just pull the 50af drop, just wait and see it'll be a new tiered system that'll give us 20af when we would have gotten 50, and 5af where we would have gotten 20, and if that is the case then arkforge is going to be seriously limited

strife77
07-05-2014, 07:17 AM
this is horrible ...... I guess the game will run better when more people leave because of this nerf, arkforge is not easy to come by and trion is nerfing it geez I really cant wait for September now maybe the creators of destiny will have servers that are stable enough so I can play for 1 hour straight without server kicking me

this thread needs to be about 20 pages long trion needs to cater to the player base a little more instead of inciting them... do they understand how aggravating it is to play a game for over a year and still have server stability and horrible lag issues? its sad to say how far we as players have to go to get this game just to run smoothly for example quitting out after every major event just to have a chance at surviving a whole arkfall without critting out

fix the servers and give us rewards for dealing with horrible connectivity issues I love the combat in this game but as soon as I can find that combat elsewhere myself and how many others will just move on? ask yourself that trion

Arkamenitas
07-05-2014, 08:57 AM
a bug in the player's favor happened to be fixed. its the end of the world! lets all run around yelling doom and attacking each other because thinking trion needed player help to find this problem is pants-on-head ******ed. Rather than *****ing about the bug being fixed, you can be thankful for how long your free stealth-buff to drop rates lasted. go complain about lag and disconnects, aka legitimate complaints instead of acting like entitled five year olds

Big Jack Shepard
07-05-2014, 09:02 AM
a bug in the player's favor happened to be fixed. its the end of the world! lets all run around yelling doom and attacking each other because thinking trion needed player help to find this problem is pants-on-head ******ed. Rather than *****ing about the bug being fixed, you can be thankful for how long your free stealth-buff to drop rates lasted. go complain about lag and disconnects, aka legitimate complaints instead of acting like entitled five year oldsI don't believe there was any bug.

drackiller
07-05-2014, 09:18 AM
I don't believe there was any bug.

The bug was that it wasn`t bringing cash from the store.
I wont buy AF from the store in any circumstances, i don`t feel the need to do so. I can go by in the game pretty well without "legendary" stuff. Who doesn`t love a OP weapon!? I sure love it, but no way in hell i`m going to pay for that in a game that i PAYED to own.

yue
07-05-2014, 09:42 AM
That, Sir, is a steaming pile of horse manure. Trio didn't need player feedback to point out this so-called "issue", believing otherwise is just plain paranoid AND naive.

Your clearly new so I'll let this slide . But just a fyi trion has a clear pattern . Ppl post about something good . Trion nerfs it . I've seen it way too many times .

yue
07-05-2014, 09:51 AM
People were posting on the forums and using T2s for Arkforge long before the data collection. So making some rates public may not have been the trigger you think it is.

No I totally get why you did that . This would be great for the community if it didn't raise giant red flags for a nerf . I've seen a lot of what you have put on the forums and most is really great . However that is why I'm sure the devs take what you say more serious then most . So by you helping them see how we are benefiting from t2 boxes throws a red flag . Some things as sad as it is to say shouldn't be made forum public knowledge and this is why .

hiban
07-05-2014, 10:31 AM
Why something should be changed when it's something we all think is ok?

The problem are not T2 boxes, they are fine for their value. The problem are T3 and T4 boxes, which are not worth the keys they cost.

DeadEye68
07-05-2014, 10:45 AM
Your clearly new so I'll let this slide .

You shouldn't base assumptions on my forum join date, I merely didn't feel the need to register until recently. Now, if you give me your address I'll send you a fresh supply of tinfoil.


The problem are not T2 boxes, they are fine for their value. The problem are T3 and T4 boxes, which are not worth the keys they cost.

As quite a few of us have said, that is definitely the core of the problem.

dramaQkarri
07-05-2014, 10:55 AM
Good day ark hunters,

You will notice one change in an upcoming patch that we wanted to inform you of in advance, rather than have the community be surprised about after the patch notes were published.

We have been aware of a discrepancy between Tier 2, Tier 3 and Tier 4 lockboxes with respect to how much arkforge they drop. Specifically, the T4 amount of arkforge was also being dropped by T2 and T3 lockboxes Ė meaning the T2 and T3 lockboxes were much more valuable than intended. T2 and T3 boxes should drop arkforge that corresponds to their tier, instead of matching T4 (and - for what itís worth - the loot tables even existed to drop less, it was just missed when they were set up originally).

This change to T2 and T3 lockboxes will go live in an upcoming patch (and there will be a patch note about it).

Please note: This change does not affect any item or outfit drop percentage; it is specific to arkforge.

We wanted to post this early to give the community early notification. And, if you are so inclined, you may want to take advantage of the current T2 arkforge loot tables before the change is applied. :)

Well super. All you guys seem to be able to do is take things AWAY from us. How about fixing connectivity and other BIG problems? How about making this game fun to play, letting us reap rewards? With all the hard freezes and little reward for our time, why would you expect us to continue playing AT ALL? How about giving the playerbase things we WANT, not still trying to drive us into the stupid bit store? WE ARE NOT GOING TO SPEND OUR MONEY ON ARKFORGE IN A MASSIVELY MESSED UP GAME, get it thru your greedy heads this is not the way to player retention.

This is bad news, bad idea, thanks for the advance warning so we can all vanish once you put that patch thru.

dramaQkarri
07-05-2014, 11:06 AM
What did you expect ? That's why I raged about you doing this when it first started . The only thing you did is just give them a reason to nerf . Guess what there nerfing it now . I hope you're pleased with yourself

Etaew is one of the MOST helpful informative people that Trion has going for them right now and he's not even paid. Of course The Company knew we were all buying T2's. They're trying to find ways to drive us into the bit store cuz that's the only thing they know how to do. Instead of standing behind a quality product they're just sticking it to us again and the blame lies on their shoulders. Attacking players here will get you nowhere.

Nefarious
07-05-2014, 11:45 AM
So do Tier 4s have a higher chance to drop Ark Forge? Or do they have the same chance as usual?

Zombie Stark
07-05-2014, 12:06 PM
Guess you weren't making enough money in the bit store, ehh Trion? I'll just continue to ignore this Ark Forge money grab even after you make this asinine change.

TremerChrist
07-05-2014, 01:01 PM
We all know they aren't going to increase anything in this game that would make it more enjoyable for the players. They have made up their minds, arkforege from T2s will be nerfed. And if it doesn't drive players to the bit store, they will nerf Arkfalls. Or make arkforge only attainable from a T5 box that cost 125 keys. Bit store or bust!

Cocatox
07-05-2014, 01:50 PM
bad idear from the devs, buff lockboxes t3 t4 thats what we want!!!!!!

bigguy
07-05-2014, 01:53 PM
once again they show that they dont care about us

konstantinov
07-05-2014, 02:23 PM
I don't think this move is Ron Burgundy approved.

Pandemonium
07-05-2014, 02:30 PM
I don't think this move is Ron Burgundy approved.

I agree. not a way to stay classy trion

Alexri
07-05-2014, 02:40 PM
Very bad change. The drop rate isnt actually that high for t2 as it is, so this will just put a huge dent in the enjoyability of the game in general when arkforge becomes so rare you cant do what you want.

Will see how it goes, but this might actually cause me to stop playing, since building weapons is what I do in the game now.

Blu
07-05-2014, 03:14 PM
Perfect example of what happens when you put everything online, as in, ppl who do tests on things, make spread sheets or you tube videos and then share it with everyone else...

a lot of ppl has known about the t2 forge rates, but why ppl was so inclined to make this public, run tests and show these results in a open, public environment,

this is what happens..

just like with league, ppl will find new builds or a champion / item/ build combo that is wombo and they will spam it all over twitch and in the riot community, next thing you know riot will come in and nerf t'f out of the build and or champion..

its like ppl is making the job for developers easy, yet certain issues still don't get fixed,, why would all of this matter?

if ppl enjoy playing a game in order to farm for something, yet your going to take it away, why not give something in return, riot has non stop nerf and buff patches, they nerf something, they buff something all in same patch, makes for a stupid cycle,, one that is now driving ppl away..

I don't think many ppl are going to care much about this, notice a lot of players say they don't even have a need for forge once they get higher in ego,

if we could share forge on our account with our lower lvl toons this might be diff, but idk..

all I know is, for some reason, instead of ppl making a forums, one away from the actual gaming companies website, or sharing this info within there own clan, I don't understand why ppl would share this with the company who until this last team, really has shown no love to this community in no way..

instead of giving ppl more reasons to play and farm, they take away?
why would you change drop rates for forge and not items, why would you want to take away something ppl are enjoying, what did they do wrong ?

outside of share info and do it with the public here, why would you not just say, we are going to increase the forge drop rates in the other lock boxes and increase RNG,,,

instead, I assume from what I seen in a thread earlier, next your going to target 7th legion lock box outfit drop rates? this will decrease now as well?

its not the carrot that the donkey is actually chasing, its the thought of being able to eat the carrot that is wanting and needing..

what will keep ppl playing this game, who are new to it in t he long run?

if a lot of ppl are qq about WM, if lock boxes don't offer decent rng for nice items for buying t4 boxes, if you do a siege and keep getting the same gear, if doing arkfalls no longer is netting nice purple shields, that you could be saving your arkforge for, if all of this is nerfed or punished or taken away, what will keep ppl here?

that was always my thing with this game, I found plenty of reasons to keep playing, way after everyone who I joined beta with and release with, they all quit way b4 I did, game was fun despite no real reason to farm,,

now we are getting forge, we can save our weps and lvl them up with us if they are nice, spend forge and have maybe a reason to play often,

why would you want to change that or not ADD to it?
\
I understand how supply and demand work, I also understand this game has a in store market so things can effect each other and often in a negative way, but there is somethings that need to be given to its players or just like we had when this game was released to paying customers,

you wont have a core player base that stays, it will remain a revolving door, I know new players will jump into something, spend money and then be done with the game, its pretty much the problem here in America with this younger generation, they want a lot, they spend a lot, then they get bored with it and never touch it again,,

its why the ecomonomy is struggling compared to yrs ago, there is no limit to certain things, it seems the love of money has become one of the seven deadly sins within the walls of this country,

since I have been through all these things, several times with several gaming companies, I have now learned to just take it all with a grain of salt,

have a few games I enjoy playing, some I invested money into, some I haven't, when one turns me off I walk away and goto another one and the cycle continues..

I learned from playing this game the first go around, not to get to attached to anything, if the game play or the environment is not making me happy then bounce..

now when I come and play defiance I enjoy it, I like the open world and my characters looks/outfits, but if I couldn't earn any of these, or if they was still bugged, I would not enjoy the game at all..

so the change wont break some ppls view of the game, I just feel like next time, instead of sharing the results of testing on a public environment, it should remain underground, often like good music still remains,

underground.. or within the elite ranks or ppl who have been here with it since day one..

dry snitching is real and pretty much this is what has seen to have happened here,

someone made a thread about t2 lock boxes and there drop rates, the study showed how t2 gives arkforge compared to other boxes, now a few weeks later we have this,, not blaming anyone, don't even care to, but I do have a issue with how everything is so public online, when we first came online in 1999, they warned us about sharing personal info online,,

next thing you know facebook is real and tons of drama comes from it, movie named : disconnect , try watching it next time servers are down or something..

Holy Bahamut3
07-05-2014, 03:45 PM
Okay can a CM or Dev please clarify to those less familiar with your workings. That you are making a change to the drop rates not because of the user generated tests, but from your own internal data from the servers.

Deunan
07-05-2014, 04:43 PM
Okay can a CM or Dev please clarify to those less familiar with your workings. That you are making a change to the drop rates not because of the user generated tests, but from your own internal data from the servers.The only player inspired game changes you usually see in MMO's are weapon changes from player feedback about balance issues. Changes regarding the economy as it relates to micro transactions are done by analyzing player statistics regarding use of in-game mechanics to gain equivalents to items available in the micro transaction store. It's F2P 101 basics in doing in-game analytics.

That aside, many posters here ignored the fact that Rich stated this was the way it was always meant to be and they are merely implementing pre-existing loot tables for Arkforge for Tier 2 and 3 lockboxes. It's just something they haven't got around to doing yet.

reciprocate
07-05-2014, 04:47 PM
Real scumbag move Trion. I'd be surprised if a CM or Dev even replied to the outrage here. The obvious and proper solution would be to buff T3/T4 boxes to be more rewarding - apparently that is isn't in their best interests - shows how money hungry they are. They want people to spend $ in the bit store to buy AF.

Big Jack Shepard
07-05-2014, 06:00 PM
That aside, many posters here ignored the fact that Rich stated this was the way it was always meant to be and they are merely implementing pre-existing loot tables for Arkforge for Tier 2 and 3 lockboxes. It's just something they haven't got around to doing yet.
I don't believe this is the truth.

There is no bug.

There was no mistake.

3rdpig
07-05-2014, 06:07 PM
PT probably has nothing to do with the decision making, he's just the guy who implements it.

The real problem, as many have noted, isn't that T2 lockboxes are too attractive, it's that the higher level one's aren't. Nerfing T2 boxes won't make T3 and T4 boxes more attactive, it just continues the devaluation of Ark Salvage and Scrip, which right now only has one real use, cash it in for Keycodes and buy T2 boxes.

The solution, again as many have noted, is in raising the value of T3 and specially, T4 boxes. Do it at the same time you nerf T2 boxes if that's inevitable, but simply nerfing T2 boxes by itself won't achieve the end goal of more people spending more money. In fact, I predict it will have the opposite effect.

Deunan
07-05-2014, 06:14 PM
PT probably has nothing to do with the decision making, he's just the guy who implements it.PT is the producer for the game. As such he has much more to do with the game direction than implementing it.

Alexri
07-05-2014, 06:16 PM
That you are making a change to the drop rates not because of the user generated tests, but from your own internal data from the servers.

Have you seen the live streams? Doesn't matter if it's a dev or a CM, apparently no one at Trion as able to play the game at a level higher than average. Everything they do is either based on community chat or completely at random.

Holy Bahamut3
07-05-2014, 06:30 PM
Have you seen the live streams? Doesn't matter if it's a dev or a CM, apparently no one at Trion as able to play the game at a level higher than average. Everything they do is either based on community chat or completely at random.

I just spent 5 minutes trying to think of a way to respond to this without sounding like a jack@$$ and then I realized what was the point. Still needed to respond so there you have it. Derive of that what you will...

Logain
07-05-2014, 06:54 PM
Well that's a bummer.



We have been aware of a discrepancy between Tier 2, Tier 3 and Tier 4 lockboxes with respect to how much arkforge they drop. Specifically, the T4 amount of arkforge was also being dropped by T2 and T3 lockboxes Ė meaning the T2 and T3 lockboxes were much more valuable than intended. T2 and T3 boxes should drop arkforge that corresponds to their tier, instead of matching T4 (and - for what itís worth - the loot tables even existed to drop less, it was just missed when they were set up originally).

This change to T2 and T3 lockboxes will go live in an upcoming patch (and there will be a patch note about it).

What do you mean by the bolded statement? That arkforge was dropping less? Or that it was dropping too frequently?

Alexri
07-05-2014, 07:27 PM
Well that's a bummer.



What do you mean by the bolded statement? That arkforge was dropping less? Or that it was dropping too frequently?

He means that they have a loot table (a specific system for how loot should drop) that is designed for T2 and T3 boxes, but someone forgot to connect it to the actual boxes. It's his way of saying that they intended it to be the way it's now going to be all along, but they forgot to flip a switch.

At least that's what he claims. The exact position of that statement in a system of logic that accounts for us being 13 patches and two months into the current implementation of the boxes, when activating the loot table was all they had to do, is anyone's guess.

TTOWNZ DIRTIEST
07-05-2014, 07:41 PM
Thanks Defiance DATA!!!

Roez
07-05-2014, 07:47 PM
The only player inspired game changes you usually see in MMO's are weapon changes from player feedback about balance issues. Changes regarding the economy as it relates to micro transactions are done by analyzing player statistics regarding use of in-game mechanics to gain equivalents to items available in the micro transaction store. It's F2P 101 basics in doing in-game analytics.

That aside, many posters here ignored the fact that Rich stated this was the way it was always meant to be and they are merely implementing pre-existing loot tables for Arkforge for Tier 2 and 3 lockboxes. It's just something they haven't got around to doing yet.

You're making the assumption in game analytics will give a right answer. They do not. They can say what tends to work, sure, but unless different methods are tried and tested for comparison, a data set is only a pointer toward a given direction. Nothing more.

Granted this game has had an in game store for a bit, but the population associated with this new arkforge system hasn't been in place long. Moreover, RIFT is not Defiance. The data they got from there for the last year (not even) gives them some good educated guesses where to start. That's probably about it. For example, we all know there are people who love gambling lockboxes and spending thousands of dollars. Many F2P games seem to have ways where they can tap into these customer preferences.

There is also a growing trend with F2P games and reasonable price ranges. World of Tanks is one of the better examples. The game was very much P2W when it first launched, and was making money, lots of it. They have actually since reduced a lot of their over priced cash shop items, removed a lot of P2W elements, and increased pricing options, and the game continues growing (they've said customers responded to their changes last year, and see the numbers). Whether it's industry competition forcing this type of change, or not, it is a growing thing and seems like it's working.

THE SNAZZY WINO
07-05-2014, 08:51 PM
Soon to come in later patch: Must buy ammo with bits. Cost 200 bits to extract.

Only reason they changed the boxes was because we could get AF quick & cheap so don't have to buy it with bits. I'm just surprised it was done sooner.
Trion = Greeeeeeeeed

stefb42
07-06-2014, 03:58 AM
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156099-A-easier-way-to-earn-Ark-Forge.&highlight=arkforge+lockboxes

i knew I'd read it somewhere, the OP stated that he received 20 and 50 arkforge caches from t2 lockboxes, he makes it absolutely clear that the 50 arkforge was dropping from t2 lockboxes, see reply number 3, the reply from the CM,

Hey. That's intentional, just to confirm.

people need to stop defending these shady actions, THERE WAS NO GLITCH, stop calling other users babies etc because they spotted a glitch and are patching it up, THERE WAS NO GLITCH 50 arkforge was intended to be in there, that's why people are complaining, it may come off as self entitlement but it is justified

the gamers really ought to stop bickering between each other, we're all getting screwed over here and as such should be united in putting our point across, not calling each other babies and self entitled etc as this only detracts from the issue in hand, why would the company feel the need to defend itself when the player base is split and half of them are defending the company already? Stop defending them and they have to start defending themselves,

many voices saying different things at the same time and you don't really hear any of them, many voices united and saying the same thing at the same time is hard to ignore

BarrySciFi
07-06-2014, 04:29 AM
This is why you don't post about things that nobody wants to be fixed. Thank you to every gd person who posted "i always buy t2 boxes because they drop more forge..." when when when will you people learn???

Amen to this sentiment. I was buying t2 lockboxes for the arkforge. I don't need anymore weapons as I've been making unicorns of my preferred weapons and nanos. I actually didn't realize the drop rates for t2 were 'way too high'.... So the drop rate will be even lower... Awesome

Ned Kelly
07-06-2014, 05:14 AM
He means that they have a loot table (a specific system for how loot should drop) that is designed for T2 and T3 boxes, but someone forgot to connect it to the actual boxes. It's his way of saying that they intended it to be the way it's now going to be all along, but they forgot to flip a switch.

At least that's what he claims. The exact position of that statement in a system of logic that accounts for us being 13 patches and two months into the current implementation of the boxes, when activating the loot table was all they had to do, is anyone's guess.

Sounds like the shield fiasco....

http://makeameme.org/media/created/Yeahhhh-Im-gonna.jpg

K Ron Spliffs
07-06-2014, 09:06 AM
So, ark forge ain't selling in the bit store like they want... seems like that would explain it.

Alexri
07-06-2014, 11:11 AM
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156099-A-easier-way-to-earn-Ark-Forge.&highlight=arkforge+lockboxes

i knew I'd read it somewhere, the OP stated that he received 20 and 50 arkforge caches from t2 lockboxes, he makes it absolutely clear that the 50 arkforge was dropping from t2 lockboxes, see reply number 3, the reply from the CM,

Hey. That's intentional, just to confirm.


Nice find. Not like I believed PhantasieTrion on "it was supposed to be nerfed all along" to begin with, but it's nice to see that they're caught lying outright with absolutely no way to explain it away.

Mr idontfart
07-06-2014, 12:59 PM
They're just trying to leave us with no option but to buy that over priced unworthy Arkforge from the store..... what a rip off!!!

Bonehead
07-06-2014, 01:03 PM
So, ark forge ain't selling in the bit store like they want... seems like that would explain it.

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/clip-art-bingo-442587_zps130b9ebf.jpg

Multigun
07-06-2014, 01:04 PM
Why even bother getting key's anymore? It's not like T4 boxes drop anything to get excited about to begin with. If there is no incentive to get gear, people stop playing. I've haven't been feeling like playing much this week. My incentive to play just got a lot less.

Kanah
07-06-2014, 01:40 PM
I'd rather pay a subscription than get hosed for specific items like arkforge. Patron pass is sort of a subscription, but it's not really that useful when you're at max skill, getting no more XP, and have several million salvage. How about including an arkforge boost in the Patron plan?

Marik Gnasher
07-06-2014, 02:05 PM
We all know they aren't going to increase anything in this game that would make it more enjoyable for the players. They have made up their minds, arkforege from T2s will be nerfed. And if it doesn't drive players to the bit store, they will nerf Arkfalls. Or make arkforge only attainable from a T5 box that cost 125 keys. Bit store or bust!

Oh shame on you... You just gave them their next big scheme

dramaQkarri
07-06-2014, 03:05 PM
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156099-A-easier-way-to-earn-Ark-Forge.&highlight=arkforge+lockboxes

i knew I'd read it somewhere, the OP stated that he received 20 and 50 arkforge caches from t2 lockboxes, he makes it absolutely clear that the 50 arkforge was dropping from t2 lockboxes, see reply number 3, the reply from the CM,

Hey. That's intentional, just to confirm.

people need to stop defending these shady actions, THERE WAS NO GLITCH, stop calling other users babies etc because they spotted a glitch and are patching it up, THERE WAS NO GLITCH 50 arkforge was intended to be in there, that's why people are complaining, it may come off as self entitlement but it is justified

the gamers really ought to stop bickering between each other, we're all getting screwed over here and as such should be united in putting our point across, not calling each other babies and self entitled etc as this only detracts from the issue in hand, why would the company feel the need to defend itself when the player base is split and half of them are defending the company already? Stop defending them and they have to start defending themselves,

many voices saying different things at the same time and you don't really hear any of them, many voices united and saying the same thing at the same time is hard to ignore

+1
Trion thinks we're all children or have no intelligence or something...the thread linked to in above quote makes THIS thread a big fat lie.

stefb42
07-06-2014, 03:37 PM
+1
Trion thinks we're all children or have no intelligence or something...the thread linked to in above quote makes THIS thread a big fat lie.

thanks, it took me ages to find the post, but i knew it existed so was determined to find it, i remember at the time it was posted thinking great, arkforge nerf incoming, so was really relieved to see the post from gm saying it was working as intended, this news is a real kick in the teeth and i truly hope they can find a different way to make money

I've been playing since launch, and the ftp thing was the only thing that ever worried me, felt like we might get screwed over, but my fears seemed to be alluded, arkforge was obtainable, and having a family and a real life i could play a couple of hours a day and still enjoy everything the game had to offer, including the new upgrade features, but alas it seems they want us to spend half our lives playing, or better still our hard earned cash, if you want my cash give me something worth spending it on, they're called microtransactions for a reason and this doesn't really fit that bill, £20 is not a micro transaction, its a chunk

Lillith Valerian
07-06-2014, 07:21 PM
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156099-A-easier-way-to-earn-Ark-Forge.&highlight=arkforge+lockboxes

i knew I'd read it somewhere, the OP stated that he received 20 and 50 arkforge caches from t2 lockboxes, he makes it absolutely clear that the 50 arkforge was dropping from t2 lockboxes, see reply number 3, the reply from the CM,

Hey. That's intentional, just to confirm.

people need to stop defending these shady actions, THERE WAS NO GLITCH, stop calling other users babies etc because they spotted a glitch and are patching it up, THERE WAS NO GLITCH 50 arkforge was intended to be in there, that's why people are complaining, it may come off as self entitlement but it is justified

the gamers really ought to stop bickering between each other, we're all getting screwed over here and as such should be united in putting our point across, not calling each other babies and self entitled etc as this only detracts from the issue in hand, why would the company feel the need to defend itself when the player base is split and half of them are defending the company already? Stop defending them and they have to start defending themselves,

many voices saying different things at the same time and you don't really hear any of them, many voices united and saying the same thing at the same time is hard to ignore

*Sigh*

I don't even get upset anymore.

In the grand scheme of things, it's just a video game. True, a video game I've invested a lot emotional energy into, but a game all the same. One that has promise, but seems almost deliberately hamstrung by the devs at every single turn, in their great white whale hunt. I've spent over a few hundred dollars myself, but clearly people like me are not enough to satiate whatever profit hunger Trion has.

I had one serious reservation about Revolutions, and it was Arkforge. And even after scaling down to the bone on my inventory, I still haven't been able to keep up. Despite my criticism, I have been willing to spend money in the store since launch. Trion's response to this has been to hold the effectiveness of my weapons hostage, which I found barely tolerable by way of the drop rates. Apparently not anymore.

My support for free to play was going to come in the form of purchasing a sixth loadout, two new outfits, and two new vehicles. If this goes through, and they're going to stranglehold Arkforge even more, they're not getting one more thin dime out of me. Clearly this doesn't matter to their analytics, since one whale must equal dozens of me, if not more. But it doesn't change the fact that I do have a breaking point.

Just because I changed the names on all my loadouts in a fit of frustration to 'Pequod Bluecoat' doesn't mean I intend to go down with this ship.

Hey, look over there, kids. Destiny and Dragon Age: Inquisition are coming.

drackiller
07-07-2014, 01:54 AM
Hey, look over there, kids. Destiny and Dragon Age: Inquisition are coming.

YUP, and Sacred3 just next month if you like the genre...i do.

oO Gaul Oo
07-07-2014, 04:56 AM
YUP, and Sacred3 just next month if you like the genre...i do.

I am quite looking forward to Sacred 3 and Dragon Age: Inquisition as it happens...

Storm58
07-07-2014, 07:55 AM
I think it was "stefb42" who originally found the link, but I'm going to keep posting the link in hopes that Kiwi or Phantasie or Someone from the Defiance Team explains it.

I'm not typically one to go "he said, she said," but this one sucks for me.

I don't buy T3 or T4 lockboxes because I'm low(er) EGO and Purple or Orange weapons mean crap to me after a few uses as I "outgrow" them... so, killing the Arkforge even more is going to suck, whether it actually be the drop rate or the drop amount.

Link to a Defiance CM stating that (allegedly) T2 Arkforge drop rates/drop amounts are "intentional." Please keep the link going. Credit to "stefb42."

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156099-A-easier-way-to-earn-Ark-Forge.&highlight=arkforge+lockboxes

DeadEye68
07-07-2014, 08:10 AM
Some quick math show it takes-on average- 2 keys per arkforge on T2s, 4 keys on T3s and 9 keys on T4s. I wouldn't mind T2 getting "fixed" if higher tier boxes had decent yields, especially T4s. Supposedly "better" boxes being actually less profitable makes no sense.

Holy Bahamut3
07-07-2014, 09:16 AM
If they wanted the box tiers to work properly, they should let t2s have the same chance to roll 20 to 50 AF. T3s should have a slightly higher chance to roll AF over consumables of between 20 to 70 AF. Finally T4s should have a garenteed 20 to 100 AF. If you're buying a T4 you're not looking consumables anyway. You can purchase lower tier boxes for that.

N3gativeCr33p
07-07-2014, 09:22 AM
Hey, look over there, kids. Destiny and Dragon Age: Inquisition are coming.

YAYYYYYYYYYY!!!

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-26029-kermit-the-frog-YAY-gif-0hBT.gif



I don't even get upset anymore.

Agreed... getting upset would be too much of a mental investment than I'm willing to give this game anymore.

Zhedda
07-07-2014, 11:05 AM
I agree with everyone else. T2 should remain as is, and T3/T4 buffed. Otherwise, it seems like another shameless money grab in the hopes that people will spend real money for arkforge. If they do nerf T2/T3, they need to give us another option to get arkforge that doesn't include the lock boxes. I don't care about the loot. I buy T2 for the forge.

Deunan
07-07-2014, 12:06 PM
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156099-A-easier-way-to-earn-Ark-Forge.&highlight=arkforge+lockboxes

i knew I'd read it somewhere, the OP stated that he received 20 and 50 arkforge caches from t2 lockboxes, he makes it absolutely clear that the 50 arkforge was dropping from t2 lockboxes, see reply number 3, the reply from the CM,

Hey. That's intentional, just to confirm.You're interpreting CM Kiwibird's response from a biased perspective.

Here is the something that gives more context:


The Highest amount Ive ever gotten doing an event/mission was 10. That was from completing Explosions 101 on Expert. Other times from things Ive gotten 2 and 4?

But lock boxes have a chance of giving Ark Forge. Instead of buying a single tier 4 with my 75 keys I did my method of buying two tier 3s and three tier 2s to mix things up. Two out of the three tier 2s gave me 20 and 50 Ark Forge.

I know next time I have 75 keys Im buying nine tier 2 lock boxes to score Ark Forge.


Hey. That's intentional, just to confirm.


What's intentional exactly? The fact that lockboxes drop arkforge, or the fact that T2 seem to drop more per key on average, which is somewhat counter-intuitive and is not explained to players in any way, or both?

Without a biased agenda of supporting the assertion that Rich was lying when he said that the different drop amounts were intended, as Tekrunner's post shows, there is ambiguity in CM Kiwibird's response. Absent that agenda, it's not clear at all if the response was with regards to the fact that Arkforge drops at all from lock boxes, that the chance of it dropping doesn't increase with higher Tier lock boxes, or that it drops in amounts of 20 or 50 for all lock boxes. Sorry but there's no smoking gun here. People will believe what they want to believe but this doesn't prove anything.

ateballing
07-07-2014, 12:06 PM
I think it was "stefb42" who originally found the link, but I'm going to keep posting the link in hopes that Kiwi or Phantasie or Someone from the Defiance Team explains it.

I'm not typically one to go "he said, she said," but this one sucks for me.


I don't buy T3 or T4 lockboxes because I'm low(er) EGO and Purple or Orange weapons mean crap to me after a few uses as I "outgrow" them... so, killing the Arkforge even more is going to suck, whether it actually be the drop rate or the drop amount.

Link to a Defiance CM stating that (allegedly) T2 Arkforge drop rates/drop amounts are "intentional." Please keep the link going. Credit to "stefb42."

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156099-A-easier-way-to-earn-Ark-Forge.&highlight=arkforge+lockboxes


Just read the post on this link, where Kiwibird confirms that the drop rates from T2 and T3 lock boxes was intentional. So my question is " Is Trion now lying to us? Or Was Kiwibird stating something they knew nothing about?"

Error404
07-07-2014, 12:15 PM
Just read the post on this link, where Kiwibird confirms that the drop rates from T2 and T3 lock boxes was intentional. So my question is " Is Trion now lying to us? Or Was Kiwibird stating something they knew nothing about?"

Trion knowing nothing about their own game WOULD follow past statements.

We told them time and time again that legendary lightnings, thunderers and typhoon ARs were not in the drop tables.

We were also told that legendaries could drop in the field at one point in time.

OrpheusXI
07-07-2014, 12:25 PM
This's pathetic of Trion, VERY pathetic. I will NEVER spend another dime on this game after reading this. Never seen it till now and very pissed off.

This game is dropping down the toilet even more, I just can't believe how they treat their customers. This is Nexon type **** here.

I really hope people stop supporting them, please do because they don't deserve our money.

Savage Hero
07-07-2014, 01:01 PM
This's pathetic of Trion, VERY pathetic. I will NEVER spend another dime on this game after reading this. Never seen it till now and very pissed off.

This game is dropping down the toilet even more, I just can't believe how they treat their customers. This is Nexon type **** here.

I really hope people stop supporting them, please do because they don't deserve our money.

I agree with this person this is very Nexon type behavior which isn't new to me, if this trend continues I can see this game becoming extinct possibly. This is a VERY VERY BAD IDEA Trion so please at least read the comments posted in this thread, share amongst your entire workplace, and ACTUALLY RETHINK revising the loot tables. Many people in this thread have given some mighty good suggestions that should be considered or will you fall into the same pit as Nexon has and only listen to those who shell out money for in-game crap?

stefb42
07-07-2014, 01:11 PM
Given that nef categorically stated that he got 20 and 50 forge from t2 boxes, didn't mention what he got from the t3 boxes je opened, and that was the only statement that had been made in the thread, i have to assume that the gm response was to his statement,

if this thread had gone along the lines of the 50 forge is dropping too often so they were going to adjust the drop rates, id have still been peeved, but would have seen their point, but to say it never should have been there smells fishy to me

anyway when can we expect to see this impending change? I expect it will be soon as it doesn't benefit the player in any way other than a 'longer more fulfilling chase' and those patches are always quick to land

N3gativeCr33p
07-07-2014, 01:13 PM
Many people in this thread have given some mighty good suggestions that should be considered or will you fall into the same pit that Nexon has and only listen to those who shell out money for in-game crap?

http://freepatriot.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/survey-says.jpg


... YES!

DarkMatter909
07-07-2014, 01:27 PM
I just want to put my 2 sense in and say this change sucks and i dont want it like everyone else. Its fine the way it is, though i feel the rate is too low now, dont change it. Or as others have said already increase the drop rate on t3 & t4. As we all know trion wont listen, will impliment this and something somewhere in the game will break. Just saying, track record is poor when it comes to "fixing" drop rates. Actually it sucks when fixing anything but hey whos counting...

Deunan
07-07-2014, 01:48 PM
Given that nef categorically stated that he got 20 and 50 forge from t2 boxes, didn't mention what he got from the t3 boxes je opened, and that was the only statement that had been made in the thread, i have to assume that the gm response was to his statementAgain that's just your bias coming into play. That was not the only statement made in the thread. The thread was about different ways to get Arkforge. You're completely ignoring that the thrust of the thread was about lock boxes as an alternate source for Arkforge over events, not about whether X amount of Arkforge dropping from Y type of lock box:

The Highest amount Ive ever gotten doing an event/mission was 10. That was from completing Explosions 101 on Expert. Other times from things Ive gotten 2 and 4?
There's no compelling reason to assume that CM Kiwibird was responding to the amount of Arkforge that drops from lock boxes over the assumption that she was simply responding to the theme of the thread (that lock boxes are an additional source for Arkforge on top of events) and this statement and this statement alone:

But lock boxes have a chance of giving Ark Forge.

dramaQkarri
07-07-2014, 02:01 PM
Whatever the intent - The Company has a nasty habit of changing it's mind. A LOT. So if it was uninformed Kiwi, or intentionally lying here, it adds up to the same thing. It's a bad idea and it's going to happen. None of us like it and we don't matter to The Company once they decide to go grappling for our wallets. Again.

InfamousBrad
07-07-2014, 03:19 PM
Good day ark hunters,

You will notice one change in an upcoming patch that we wanted to inform you of in advance, rather than have the community be surprised about after the patch notes were published.

We have been aware of a discrepancy between Tier 2, Tier 3 and Tier 4 lockboxes with respect to how much arkforge they drop. Specifically, the T4 amount of arkforge was also being dropped by T2 and T3 lockboxes Ė meaning the T2 and T3 lockboxes were much more valuable than intended. T2 and T3 boxes should drop arkforge that corresponds to their tier, instead of matching T4 (and - for what itís worth - the loot tables even existed to drop less, it was just missed when they were set up originally).

This change to T2 and T3 lockboxes will go live in an upcoming patch (and there will be a patch note about it).

Please note: This change does not affect any item or outfit drop percentage; it is specific to arkforge.

We wanted to post this early to give the community early notification. And, if you are so inclined, you may want to take advantage of the current T2 arkforge loot tables before the change is applied. :)

Not for the first time in the last year, I have to ask, are you trying to kill this game?

CM Kiwibird
07-07-2014, 03:30 PM
She was simply responding to the theme of the thread (that lock boxes are an additional source for Arkforge on top of events) and this statement and this statement alone: lock boxes have a chance of giving Arkforge.

Deunan is correct, it was my intention to confirm that Arkforge can drop from these lockboxes. It was not my intention to create this kind of confusion, and I would like to apologize. I hadn't checked on that thread since my last response, and an important follow-up question was presented.


What's intentional exactly? The fact that lockboxes drop Arkforge, or the fact that T2 seem to drop more per key on average, which is somewhat counter-intuitive and is not explained to players in any way, or both?

Let me clear this up:

Lower tier lockboxes can drop the same amount of Arkforge as higher. That is definitely intentional. After this patch, that is still going to be possible, but it wonít be as likely that youíll pull Arkforge out of a lesser tier lockbox. Youíre going to pull the same amount of Arkforge out of lockboxes, but itís going to be more likely that youíll pull Arkforge from higher tier lockboxes.

The idea behind this is: With each keycode contributed to the purchase of a lockbox, players should get an increased chance of gaining Arkforge. Additionally, players should be rewarded for holding onto keys until they can spend the largest lump-sum possible at a time.

Paster of Muppets
07-07-2014, 03:58 PM
At this point it's probably worth reminding people of some realities:

1) This change is clearly aimed at selling more arkforge in the ingame store.

2) 50 arkforge sells for roughly 2 euros(~2.7 dollars). 300 arkforge roughly 10 euros, and 500 15 euros(~20 dollars).

3) Just upgrading a green weapon to blue costs you 100 arkforge, blue to purple 200, and purple to orange 500.

4) What this, and other upgrades buy you, is just a small chance to try and get an useful bonus roll on that weapon.

5) This game will have a limited lifespan, and the company running it reserves the right to alter your items, and/or remove your access to them.

6) The above means that you could be paying 15 euros/20 dollars to tweak a small aspect on a virtual "item" you yourself don't own.

In what world is this in any way sane?

Lillith Valerian
07-07-2014, 04:34 PM
Let me clear this up:

Lower tier lockboxes can drop the same amount of Arkforge as higher. That is definitely intentional. After this patch, that is still going to be possible, but it wonít be as likely that youíll pull Arkforge out of a lesser tier lockbox. Youíre going to pull the same amount of Arkforge out of lockboxes, but itís going to be more likely that youíll pull Arkforge from higher tier lockboxes.

The idea behind this is: With each keycode contributed to the purchase of a lockbox, players should get an increased chance of gaining Arkforge. Additionally, players should be rewarded for holding onto keys until they can spend the largest lump-sum possible at a time.

This isn't going to be any clearer for many people. I think I understand what you are saying, but the way you are articulating it comes across as trying to make it sound like it's a positive thing, when it's absolutely not.

1.) Right now we pull 20 or 50 unit Arkforge bundles from T2, T3, and T4 lockboxes.
2.) All three (T2, T3, T4) have the same chance of dropping 20 or 50 unit bundles.
3.) Trion is changing it so that T2 has a lesser chance of pulling 20 or 50 unit bundles.

You are stating 'same amount of Arkforge', when that is not the truth. You only mean the 20 and 50 unit bundles are remaining the same amount. The fact that we will have a less chance of pulling these bundles, by definition, means we will NOT be getting the same amount collectively over time. It will be reduced, due to reduced dropped rate. Let's not try to spin this.

The only question that remains is, will the T4 drop rates stay the same as they are now, and be considered the 'maximum drop rate possibility'? Or will they and T3s be raised above where they are now?

I think we all know the answer to that question.

Deunan
07-07-2014, 05:04 PM
Just upgrading a green weapon to blue costs you 100 arkforge, blue to purple 200, and purple to orange 500.This is a poor choice for advocating against Arkforge reductions in lock box yields. When they announced the implementation of the rarity upgrade feature a lot of players felt that the amount should have been twice this amount and some even advocated that it should require Caeruleum Cores as well to avoid trivializing the ability to get Legendary Gear in general and Arkbreaker weapons in particular

What this, and other upgrades buy you, is just a small chance to try and get an useful bonus roll on that weapon.It is not a small chance to get a useful bonus roll on a weapon. It's a small chance to get the one that you may want on the weapon, which is not the same thing. There are very few rolls that are completely or almost completely useless for most weapons now, especially in the Legendary bonus pool. For most Arkbreaker weapons it's 100 percent guaranteed what rarity bonus you will be getting. You get a lot more than an additional rarity bonus as well. You also get a damage increase for weapons, Armor Plating increase for shields from Uncommon to Rare and from Epic to Legendary, higher scaled Mastery Bonuses and access to additional Mastery Bonuses. In addition they are going to be implementing the ability to reroll rarity bonuses using Arkforge so even if you don't get the bonus you wanted you can get as many attempts as it takes for you to get the one you want.

We don't even know how severe the drop in Arkforge yield will be for lock boxes and the yield from events alone is enough to maintain an okay progression rate for my character's gear. Of course I would be happy if they kept the drop frequency the same for Tier 2 lock boxes and increased them for the other Tier lock boxes instead but in the end this isn't going to have a gigantic impact on my gameplay.

Fuzzy
07-07-2014, 05:10 PM
We don't even know how severe the drop in Arkforge yield will be for lock boxes and the yield from events alone is enough to maintain an okay progression rate for my character's gear. Of course I would be happy if they kept the drop frequency the same for Tier 2 lock boxes and increased them for the other Tier lock boxes instead but in the end this isn't going to have a gigantic impact on my gameplay.

Was hoping for someone to say this...
Yes, the AF drop from T2s is/was nice, but we still CAN get drops from T2s. If this happens in a reasonable amount, then I don't see a huge problem.
Yes, it sucks that they are nerfing it, I'd rather have it stay the same also.
And in the end... it all comes down to RNG luck. A lot of people say they can get more legendaries out of T3s than out of T4s, even though the drop rate for legendaries is higher in T4s.
It's the same with AF. In the end, people may say T3s are the best for AF or even still T2s.
Let us see first how they change it/to what amount...

richardkrainium
07-07-2014, 06:02 PM
now lets be honest here....the only reason we get lockboxes is for the chance at arkfore..we dont really care about legendary weapon drops from lockboxes any more because they have become meaningless now that any piece of junk can be made a legendary. why would you mess with one of the only things from us to spend keys on....oh wait i know why...its because it benefits the player and we certainly cant have that.

Chump Norris
07-07-2014, 06:55 PM
If it is really about balance and not the money then why not just give T3 and T4 a higher chance at forge drops?

Lillith Valerian
07-07-2014, 07:33 PM
If it is really about balance and not the money then why not just give T3 and T4 a higher chance at forge drops?

Winrar.

And again, I think we all know the answer to that question.

samuelsinn
07-07-2014, 07:44 PM
If it is really about balance and not the money then why not just give T3 and T4 a higher chance at forge drops?

becuse no game that is F2p is ever realy F2P all
F2p games are in some way P2W look at any good or bad shooter game that is F2P look at all good and bad mmorpgs that have markets in them

u can only find XP boosts in markets on thes games. u can only get the best armors or hidden armours or even the best weapons or hidden weapons from there store.you can only finde that super rare hard to get upgrade items from the in game stores. u can only get XX crafting set from in game store. outfits. mods. mounts. weapons.cars EVERYTHING u could realy want u find in the in game store for real money. over all in the end no matter how we cut it ALL F2P Games are P2W becuse the game wants to make money. the company wants to make money. and how do u makle money. u sell the people what they cant have in game. and the players younge old smart dumb and down right stupid all put money into the games they play inorder to get the things they want

be it AF here on defiance. or that lovely xp boost or scrip boost or outfits. or even rare gun lockboxes.

games all take this path sometime. this is just trions first step in that derection. after this. things will start going down hill. and when they do. alot of players will leave. then and only then will trion look back and go " damn we steped in the stalko now " and shut down what is and could of become the best F2p tps MMO ever. only time will tell though .

Paster of Muppets
07-07-2014, 08:46 PM
This is a poor choice for advocating against Arkforge reductions in lock box yields. When they announced the implementation of the rarity upgrade feature a lot of players felt that the amount should have been twice this amount and some even advocated that it should require Caeruleum Cores as well to avoid trivializing the ability to get Legendary Gear in general and Arkbreaker weapons in particular


What I'm actually advocating is that they stop selling Arkforge for real money. For one thing, that way they can adjust arkforge drop rate based on how rare they want optimal quality oranges to be, and not on how tight it makes their monetization consultant's pants.

I do know there's a near zero chance of that happening, but but hey, at least hope is free.

drackiller
07-07-2014, 11:55 PM
What I'm actually advocating is that they stop selling Arkforge for real money. For one thing, that way they can adjust arkforge drop rate based on how rare they want optimal quality oranges to be, and not on how tight it makes their monetization consultant's pants.

I do know there's a near zero chance of that happening, but but hey, at least hope is free.
You do know that they thought AF would be a gold mine , right!?
I`m not going to waste REAL money on the store for the prices they have, not even if the prices where half of what they are now.

stefb42
07-08-2014, 01:57 AM
They really need to stop doing this, i mean dropping bombshells on Friday nights and walking away from them as the fallout ensues, then things don't get cleared up until after the weekend which is almost midnight Monday where i am, if someone had responded about the fact that 50af was still going to drop from t2, just less often, I'd have said my piece and moved on or maybe wouldn't have even bothered responding

but the way the OP was worded it gave the impression that 50af was being removed from the t2, a little communication would have gone a long way in this instance, when dropping bombshells you need to hang around for the aftermath so that you can correct peoples wrong assumptions and better explain what's happening as the players respond to the news

so i apologize for all my complaining, and also for momentarily making a cm look bad even though it wasn't my intention, people just ran with it, so ill start again now i have the info i should have gotten on friday

reduced ark forge drop rates, I'm gutted, but at least it can still be gotten from t2 boxes, hopefully the reduction wont be too harsh as this really is all i have left in this game, guess we'll know soon, when is this change set to hit? Or has it landed already? Is that why i got absolutely no forge last night from t2s?

Fuzzy
07-08-2014, 04:08 AM
reduced ark forge drop rates, I'm gutted, but at least it can still be gotten from t2 boxes, hopefully the reduction wont be too harsh as this really is all i have left in this game, guess we'll know soon, when is this change set to hit? Or has it landed already? Is that why i got absolutely no forge last night from t2s?

There hasn't been any patch and I still got AF from T2s last night.
It's really just bad RNG luck. Sometimes it loves you, sometimes it hates you.
When I go buy for 125 keys T2s, I get sometimes none AF at all, sometimes I get from 3/4 of the boxes AF.

N3gativeCr33p
07-08-2014, 05:21 AM
If it is really about balance and not the money then why not just give T3 and T4 a higher chance at forge drops?

http://media.giphy.com/media/KPdzGp8a20QbC/giphy.gif

Pandur
07-08-2014, 06:24 AM
Not unexpected, i think lowering the drop rate is not a good decision though, rather up T4 chances.
But anyways thanks for the heads up guess i have to blow a few million scrip and salvage before the change happens.

Zhedda
07-08-2014, 06:46 AM
Not unexpected, i think lowering the drop rate is not a good decision though, rather up T4 chances.
But anyways thanks for the heads up guess i have to blow a few million scrip and salvage before the change happens.

That is assuming the change hasn't already happened. I was getting on average about 40 ark forge per 16 T2 lock boxes opened last night. Seemed lower than usual, but that could be RNG. Sure wasn't dropping much though.

Pandur
07-08-2014, 06:59 AM
That is assuming the change hasn't already happened. I was getting on average about 40 ark forge per 16 T2 lock boxes opened last night. Seemed lower than usual, but that could be RNG. Sure wasn't dropping much though.

Well sure, but at this point i see no reason to doubt PhantasieTrion when he says it'll happen in an upcoming patch with patch notes being poster beforehand.
He didn't need to post the announcement if they'd just sneak in the change, so i think you've been unlucky, i had those runs with T2 too heh.

dramaQkarri
07-08-2014, 09:15 AM
You do know that they thought AF would be a gold mine , right!?
I`m not going to waste REAL money on the store for the prices they have, not even if the prices where half of what they are now.

The prices in the store on just about everything are simply way too high. The Company does not understand the meaning of "microtransaction". They're missing the point completely. See, people aren't supposed to notice "micro" - which to me would be 50 cents or a dollar. The trick is the "micro" multiplies if you don't notice. Defiance store has it backwards. I have to decide, do I want to buy lunch, or an $8 virtual outfit? By contrast, if I bought a bunch of 50-cent items over a week it may well add up to MORE than the price of lunch, or several lunches. But I didn't notice cuz I'm a whale and have oodles of change in my couch.

See the difference, TRION? Lower the prices in the store to be in line with the definition of "micro" and maybe you'll find out you CAN make money without the shameless cash grab attempts.

bigguy
07-08-2014, 09:49 AM
I have to agree with Drama i believe they would make more money if the prices were lower and not just the patron pass ten percent lower but much lower. Getting people like me who spend nothing to spend something adds up , alot of something is better than nothing.

I also believe they dont need to do this nerf , This is NOT going to drive people to the store for arkforge. In fact i believe its much worse because people will play less or even leave the game. I know a few people who are ready to leave and this could be the thing that makes thier mind up for them.

N3gativeCr33p
07-08-2014, 09:53 AM
I have to agree with Drama i believe they would make more money if the prices were lower and not just the patron pass ten percent lower but much lower.

I also agree... which is why I have been saying this for several months now, whenever I have the chance to.

Chaos0vt
07-08-2014, 10:31 AM
Good thing ive been using the hell out of the tier 2's spent 500,000 of salvage and ended up with 2000 arkforge so glad i did before they implemented this :)

Stogie
07-08-2014, 10:50 AM
With the changes in getting Arkforge which were difficult, now there is no way I can keep up with my guns let alone increase the rarity or work on proper mods. I have to spend all my time farming for script and salvage in order get enough arkforge to mod and upgrade.
I would like to be able to spend some time exploring and trying different things but when I do my Ego outruns my guns.
I have torn down a bunch of Orange weapons because I cannot keep up.
They want you to buy the DLC packs but unless the dailys give more Arkforge I just don't have time for them so why waste my cash on something I don't have the time to enjoy.

TremerChrist
07-08-2014, 10:58 AM
Good thing ive been using the hell out of the tier 2's spent 500,000 of salvage and ended up with 2000 arkforge so glad i did before they implemented this :)

Same here, I had about 300af and really didn't care. I seen this and started spending my salvage, upgraded three guns to OJ and reset several weapons, still have around 1700af left. But to be honest, I earn more af from the WM and monoliths than I ever could from t2s. I just thought of the t2s as a way of dumping keys. The extra af was a bonus I didn't mind getting and I will keep buying t2s after this patch. With 125 keys I can take 15 chances with t2s, 5 chances with t3s or 1 chance with a t4. Its not like I need any weapons now, so why try higher tier boxes?

Storm58
07-08-2014, 11:11 AM
So, if I am getting this right, if we are lucky enough to pull Arkforge from a lockbox, regardless of the lockbox, the amount, per box, that we would receive, if lucky enough (RNG), would be EITHER 20 or 50, correct?

The only change is the percentage chance?

If this is the case, then this sucks. They want us to be "more rewarded" for holding on to keys, but if I get enough keys for a T4 lockbox, then I can still, for 64 keys, only *potentially* get 20 OR 50 Arkforge, correct?

However, if I am having a lucky day, for 64 keys, I can *potentially* get either 20 or 50 Arkforge from one T4 or *potentially* get 160 - 400 Arkforge from 8 T2s? Yes, percentages do play a role, but.... what?

T4s have no interest to me as any Purple or Orange gun gets scrapped a few EGO levels later... so I can get more weapons to potentially upgrade, re-roll, carry with my EGO, etc. from T2s as well as potentially getting more Arkforge, per keys, than going with T4 lockboxes...

How are T4s worth it?

Up the amount of Arkforge from T3s and T4s rather than up their chance. Give me the same chance as now for Arkforge on a T4, but up the value to 120 or 400 kind of deal.

Deunan
07-08-2014, 11:33 AM
Winrar.

And again, I think we all know the answer to that question.Anytime you have a commodity that is obtainable both in-game and from a micro-transaction store the micro-transaction revenue from that item is always going to be a factor in development decisions for that commodity. The issue isn't whether it factors into progression speed. If that bothers anyone they're going to have to avoid many if not most games that are reliant on micro-transactions for revenue. The issue is how much it factors into progression speed.

When you look at the history of Arkforge drop mechanics in the game since 1.5 went live, after this change goes live we will still be way ahead of where we were then in terms of how badly Arkforge yields from in-game sources interfered with our gear progression. Don't forget that the event drop amounts were only a fraction of what they are now when 1.5 initially went live. Nerfing our favorite slot machine is not going to decimate our ability to upgrade our gears power rating. It may slow down our ability to make Legendary gear but given how a lot of players felt about what that should require before it actually went live that may not be such a bad thing.

rebtattoo
07-08-2014, 12:19 PM
Just so I understand things clearly and knowing that the nerf is going to happen anyway, I did a little test of my own. Not scientific by any means, but...

I purchased 8 T2 boxes and received 0 arkforge.
I then purchased 8 more boxes and received 190 arkforge.
I then purchased 8 more boxes and received 20 arkforge.

With this small experiment, 192 keys granted 210 arkforge on T2 boxes.
The same amount of keys in a T4 would only grant 150 arkforge.

T2's DO NOT need to be nerfed. T4's and T3's need to see a better chance of return.

Unless, of course, you're wanting to drive ppl to the bit store. This is the ultimate reason for the nerf in the first place and I, for one, would greatly appreciate the "transparent" truth that this very team promised us a few months ago.

Spin it any way you like. We already know what's going on. Be adults and be honest.

N3gativeCr33p
07-08-2014, 12:20 PM
Just so I understand things clearly and knowing that the nerf is going to happen anyway, I did a little test of my own. Not scientific by any means, but...

I purchased 8 T2 boxes and received 0 arkforge.
I then purchased 8 more boxes and received 190 arkforge.
I then purchased 8 more boxes and received 20 arkforge.

With this small experiment, 192 keys granted 210 arkforge on T2 boxes.
The same amount of keys in a T4 would only grant 150 arkforge.

T2's DO NOT need to be nerfed. T4's and T3's need to see a better chance of return.

Unless, of course, you're wanting to drive ppl to the bit store. This is the ultimate reason for the nerf in the first place and I, for one, would greatly appreciate the "transparent" truth that this very team promised us a few months ago.

Spin it any way you like. We already know what's going on. Be adults and be honest.

Yay, Reb... Rock on with your bad self!!!

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r67/N3gativeCr33p/9umy8_zps3d8f1cbe.gif

Yrkul
07-08-2014, 02:03 PM
So when is this monetization-driven adjustment going to take place?


With the changes in getting Arkforge which were difficult, now there is no way I can keep up with my guns let alone increase the rarity or work on proper mods. I have to spend all my time farming for script and salvage in order get enough arkforge to mod and upgrade.
I would like to be able to spend some time exploring and trying different things but when I do my Ego outruns my guns.
I have torn down a bunch of Orange weapons because I cannot keep up.
They want you to buy the DLC packs but unless the dailys give more Arkforge I just don't have time for them so why waste my cash on something I don't have the time to enjoy.
You were never meant to be able to earn enough for your arsenal of orange gear through gameplay. That much was obvious from the start. Stick to blue guns for the most part until you you get close to 5K. Otherwise you'll have to pay up to keep your "babies".

I've been vendoring everything purple and orange, apart from an EL rifle and faction SAW & pulser. I'm comfortable with the current arkforge yields, and probably will be so in the future, since I don't have anything but three purples and keeping the rest blue. If a unicorn gun falls into my inventory, I'll probably keep it. But how often does that happen, eh? To enjoy the game, I have discarded the chase, because the chase has become long and unfulfilling, and the prize is a burden due to the upkeep.

Hamfisted and shortsighted design choices as usual.

DeadEye68
07-08-2014, 02:50 PM
So, made a few tests on my own.

300 T2 boxes yielded 1730 AF, for an average 1.4 key per AF. To achieve the same profitability, T4s should have a 100% AF yield with respective frequencies of 85% -50 AF- and 15% -20 AF-.
Some balance could be brought in with following unique yields per tier : T2 -20 AF-, T3 -50 AF-, T4 -100 AF- and some tweaking for yield chances per tier and/or key cost per box. In the present state of things, T2s definitely are disproportionately profitable.

Edit : sample updated

OrpheusXI
07-08-2014, 03:31 PM
Same here, I had about 300af and really didn't care. I seen this and started spending my salvage, upgraded three guns to OJ and reset several weapons, still have around 1700af left. But to be honest, I earn more af from the WM and monoliths than I ever could from t2s. I just thought of the t2s as a way of dumping keys. The extra af was a bonus I didn't mind getting and I will keep buying t2s after this patch. With 125 keys I can take 15 chances with t2s, 5 chances with t3s or 1 chance with a t4. Its not like I need any weapons now, so why try higher tier boxes?

I dn't see how you could get more af from monlioth when you can go 3-4 times in a row without even that being the arkfall that came down. at least for me this has happened many times. I have 2.7k af and damn near all of it from t2.

Deunan
07-08-2014, 04:07 PM
I dn't see how you could get more af from monlioth when you can go 3-4 times in a row without even that being the arkfall that came down.If you have a decent sized friends list you can move from phase to phase to look for Dark Matter Major Arkfalls. That being said it's usually not necessary. There is often some massive event with good Arkforge yields which you can attend whether it's Dark Matter Major Arfall, Incursion or Major Arkbreak. I do my contracts in between. If almost all of your Arkforge is from lock boxes I don't know what to say other than you're either extremely lucky when it comes to lock boxes or you're doing something wrong in terms of getting Arkforge from massive events

DeadEye68
07-09-2014, 02:46 AM
Made a few simulations based on Keys/AF scenarios with unchanged box costs during server restart.

T2 : yield (20) - rate (20%-16%-13.33%) - boxes (120) - average AF earned (480-384-320) - Key/AF ratio (2/2.5/3)
T3 : yield (50) - rate (27.43%-21.33%-19.2%) - boxes (40) - average AF earned (549-427-384) - Key/AF ratio (1.75/2.25/2.5)
T4 : yield (100) - rate (42.67%-32%-32%) - boxes (15) - average AF earned (640-480-480) - Key/AF ratio (1.5/2/2)

It clearly shows profitability can be lowered without killing it completely, with higher tier boxes being more profitable than lower tier ones. Current T2 key/AF ratio lies somewhere between 1.5 and 2 based on data I computed btw.

Cavadus
07-09-2014, 09:34 AM
I think it's safe to say that we'd like T2 boxes to be left alone and T3s and T4s to be made more attractive.

N3gativeCr33p
07-09-2014, 09:38 AM
I think it's safe to say that we'd like T2 boxes to be left alone and T3s and T4s to be made more attractive.

Indeed...

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/2/4/3/8/5/9/7/youve-got-this-right-78934863776.jpeg

DeadEye68
07-09-2014, 09:51 AM
I think it's safe to say that we'd like T2 boxes to be left alone and T3s and T4s to be made more attractive.

That's what I thought before computing numbers, but right now I have to agree ... yield on T2s is excessive. Leaving T2s as they are and making T4 more attractive would mean the latter would have to yield 100 AF every time you buy one. I don't see that happening. Trion's lack of commercial skills is largely lambasted on the forums, but liberally handing over stuff you could sell to players while running a f2p model isn't exactly the best choice I can think of either. The "happy customers will keep on buying" rule only applies when they still need what you're selling, make it quick and easy to get for free and they no longer do.

I seriously recommend some of you never try to run a business. Both generosity and utter cash grab aren't viable alternatives, the right choice is somewhere in between. Unfortunately, I doubt we'll have a reasonable nerf.

N3gativeCr33p
07-09-2014, 09:56 AM
... but liberally handing over stuff you could sell to players while running a f2p model isn't exactly the best choice I can think of.

For realsies this time?



I seriously recommend some of you never try to run a business. Both generosity and utter cash grab aren't viable alternatives, the right choice is somewhere in between.

A fine edit, kind sir or madam.

Zhedda
07-09-2014, 10:07 AM
That's what I thought before computing numbers, but right now I have to agree ... yield on T2s is excessive. Leaving T2s as they are and making T4 more attractive would mean the latter would have to yield 100 AF every time you buy one. I don't see that happening. Trion's lack of commercial skills is largely lambasted on the forums, but liberally handing over stuff you could sell to players while running a f2p model isn't exactly the best choice I can think of.

I seriously recommend some of you never try to run a business. Both generosity and utter cash grab aren't viable alternatives, the right choice is somewhere in between.

Yes, but is anyone actually buying ark forge from the bit store? I mean I have plenty of money, and I don't mind spending it, but even I am not inclined to buy an in-game currency with real money. Certainly not at the prices they have listed. If I could buy 500 arkforge for 52 bits, I'd do it. That means I could upgrade a purple to orange for about $1. That I could live with. That seems reasonable as a "micro transaction". For 1,600 bits... that is $15!!!!!!!!!!!! No. Effing. Way.

dramaQkarri
07-09-2014, 10:16 AM
Yes, but is anyone actually buying ark forge from the bit store? I mean I have plenty of money, and I don't mind spending it, but even I am not inclined to buy an in-game currency with real money. Certainly not at the prices they have listed. If I could buy 500 arkforge for 52 bits, I'd do it. That means I could upgrade a purple to orange for about $1. That I could live with. That seems reasonable as a "micro transaction". For 1,600 bits... that is $15!!!!!!!!!!!! No. Effing. Way.

+1
Yeah...$16 to upgrade a single, virtual, toy, weapon. $16 is 3 pretty big lunches ya know! OK...I'll eat something next week.

The Company needs a good working definition of MICRO. Or maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm in search of NANOtransactions...or PICOtransactions.

DeadEye68
07-09-2014, 10:21 AM
Pricing policies in the bit store have been mentioned a couple of times, and I agree. Set prices too high and you'll sell way less than you could -utter cash grab, right ?-. We don't know how much money they're making from the store, we don't know how what costs they have to cover to attain sustainability. Thus all the "we want moar for less an they could afford it" complaints are based on wind and supputations.

Heck, if it were that easy to run a business I'd be out of business myself.

Cavadus
07-09-2014, 10:31 AM
As others have said, they'd make more money if prices were reasonable. As it stands right now the last time I purchased bits and used them in the store was June of last year. With the prices as they currently exist they are ensuring that I will never purchase bits again.

And while I'm not rich I'm also not hurting. I've probably blown twenty bucks a month for the past three months in War Thunder because I can actually get stuff done with their pricing and not feel butt hurt afterwards.

bigguy
07-09-2014, 10:45 AM
I said before and will say again , This change will not send people running to the store to buy arkforge. I will NEVER buy arkforge from the store and with the prices they have i dont see how anyone ever would. The only thing this is going to succeed in doing is making people think twice about how much they play.

rebtattoo
07-09-2014, 10:49 AM
It's obvious that there are whales in the game. And these whales spend enough for The Company to justify the prices it has set.

I haven't bought bits since before Christmas. The Company hasn't proven that it wants to retain me as a player yet.

DeadEye68
07-09-2014, 10:49 AM
i dont see how anyone ever would..

One word : laziness

TremerChrist
07-09-2014, 10:50 AM
I dn't see how you could get more af from monlioth when you can go 3-4 times in a row without even that being the arkfall that came down. at least for me this has happened many times. I have 2.7k af and damn near all of it from t2.

Its all from the clan I'm in. There's times I don't have enough time to spend keys before the next persons post DM or Mono. Its constant invites to WM, and I crit out of 90% of these. I work 60hrs a week and I easily earn 1k AF just on the weekends. Yes, some of it comes from T2s because I'm maxing keys, sometimes twice an hr, and only buy T2s. Maybe I'll keep track this Sunday, I never paid any attention because the arkforge has always been there when I needed it.

N3gativeCr33p
07-09-2014, 12:06 PM
And while I'm not rich I'm also not hurting. I've probably blown twenty bucks a month for the past three months in War Thunder because I can actually get stuff done with their pricing and not feel butt hurt afterwards.

Same here. I have an easier time torching a majority of my PSN credit on GTA Online cash than I spend on other games. Why? Because I feel like I get more value out of those virtual items.

Yrkul
07-09-2014, 12:16 PM
Same here. I have an easier time torching a majority of my PSN credit on GTA Online cash than I spend on other games. Why? Because I feel like I get more value out of those virtual items.
And as Trion has demonstrated several times, that unicorn gun you spent 30$+ on can be turned into a piece of junk by the whim of the design team.

N3gativeCr33p
07-09-2014, 12:19 PM
And as Trion has demonstrated several times, that unicorn gun you spent 30$+ on can be turned into a piece of junk by the whim of the design team.

Good call!

http://cdn.gifbay.com/2013/03/and_you_know_this_man-39482.gif

dramaQkarri
07-09-2014, 12:49 PM
Same here. I have an easier time torching a majority of my PSN credit on GTA Online cash than I spend on other games. Why? Because I feel like I get more value out of those virtual items.

And I haven't spent a dime in the GTA store, I've managed to "farm" missions a lot before they got nerfed and made a lot of car sales, etc. SO...even if I did spend $$ in there, it's much more reasonable and sane. Their cash shop (last time I looked) is simply varying amounts of in-game cash. I forget the amounts but something like $10 real money for 1.5 million in-game cash? And that's all that is in their store. If you want clothes/cars/guns, go to the stores around Liberty City with your game money and just shop. Much more immersive game that way too. Simple and elegant. Too bad I suck at GTA these days...workin' on that part.

N3gativeCr33p
07-09-2014, 01:25 PM
And I haven't spent a dime in the GTA store, I've managed to "farm" missions a lot before they got nerfed and made a lot of car sales, etc. SO...even if I did spend $$ in there, it's much more reasonable and sane. Their cash shop (last time I looked) is simply varying amounts of in-game cash. I forget the amounts but something like $10 real money for 1.5 million in-game cash? And that's all that is in their store. If you want clothes/cars/guns, go to the stores around Liberty City with your game money and just shop. Much more immersive game that way too. Simple and elegant. Too bad I suck at GTA these days...workin' on that part.

Yeah, you're pretty much correct on those prices for their in-game cash... nothing overly expensive. If you're looking to have FUN (and rank up/gather cash) while playing GTA Online, I can send you an invite into our (normally friends only) VGMF shard.

Last I checked, I have over $3.5 million racked up in GTA Online. ;)

dramaQkarri
07-09-2014, 01:54 PM
It's obvious that there are whales in the game. And these whales spend enough for The Company to justify the prices it has set.

I haven't bought bits since before Christmas. The Company hasn't proven that it wants to retain me as a player yet.

Well there were already whales in the game last summer, long before all this. I had two friends that spent hundreds of dollars in a couple months or less (of course I thought they were flat-on nuts to do that). And where are they now? GONE. Moved on. Got bored. So all the cash grabbing in the world won't work unless the whale feels like their enjoying the spending and like what they're buying.

dramaQkarri
07-09-2014, 01:57 PM
Yeah, you're pretty much correct on those prices for their in-game cash... nothing overly expensive. If you're looking to have FUN (and rank up/gather cash) while playing GTA Online, I can send you an invite into our (normally friends only) VGMF shard.

Last I checked, I have over $3.5 million racked up in GTA Online. ;)

I got about $4 million right now, just gotta get used to the controls. Plus they buffed the NPC's or something, one of my fave farming missions killed me right off the bat last night. I know I'm not THAT bad! My gun skills in GTA need practice is all. Keep hitting the wrong buttons and then instead of shooting I'm running up to the enemy and standing there while I try to swap weapons or drink an eCola or something equally stupid. Driving at least, I'm fine...

If you see me in there, sure invite me!

SOFA KINGxCRAZY
07-09-2014, 02:07 PM
Good day ark hunters,

You will notice one change in an upcoming patch that we wanted to inform you of in advance, rather than have the community be surprised about after the patch notes were published.

We have been aware of a discrepancy between Tier 2, Tier 3 and Tier 4 lockboxes with respect to how much arkforge they drop. Specifically, the T4 amount of arkforge was also being dropped by T2 and T3 lockboxes Ė meaning the T2 and T3 lockboxes were much more valuable than intended. T2 and T3 boxes should drop arkforge that corresponds to their tier, instead of matching T4 (and - for what itís worth - the loot tables even existed to drop less, it was just missed when they were set up originally).

This change to T2 and T3 lockboxes will go live in an upcoming patch (and there will be a patch note about it).

Please note: This change does not affect any item or outfit drop percentage; it is specific to arkforge.

We wanted to post this early to give the community early notification. And, if you are so inclined, you may want to take advantage of the current T2 arkforge loot tables before the change is applied. :)

Maybe instead of lowering the arkforge from T2 and T3. You should raise the T4 arkforge

TheOz
07-10-2014, 04:02 AM
I agree with you. Just make the higher tiers better, not nerf T2 boxes.

They can't do that, it might reduce arkforge purchases in the bit store.

nathanpbutler
07-10-2014, 04:38 AM
Interesting counter to the whole lockbox issue: Apparently starting with 2.1, we'll be able to get 5x the Arkforge we now get if we choose to spend Chimera rep on it at the Chimera Vendor. : shrug :

Roez
07-10-2014, 05:29 AM
They can't do that, it might reduce arkforge purchases in the bit store.

Nah. F2P games started off with this assumption: they had to make things extremely out of reach in order to get people to spend. Many developers are now acknowledging you don't necessarily need to limit supply to create artificial demand.

One key with F2P games is keeping players around. The game needs to be fun for everyone; and MMOs tend to not be as fun when solo. Limiting features too much drives people away, and reduces the potential buyer market. It dissuades purchasing. Who wants to spend money on a dead game?

The problem with limiting arkforge too much for those leveling is you level too quickly. Why bother trying to grind for arkforge, just to outlevel even more the weapon you are going to spend the arkforge on? It's just not appealing.

They are making arkforge while leveling almost a luxury, and this is after charging people for inventory, keycode space, etc. It's too much.

Chaz
07-10-2014, 03:23 PM
So instead of making T4 worth it they made T2 and T3 worthless. Got it.

Chump Norris
07-11-2014, 09:18 PM
Let's discuss shields, shall we?

Any time you make a change to base stats on items, you are always balancing the time and resource investment of existing established players with those of new and learning players. (Someone who is a top-level gear vendor has a very different set of priorities than someone who is still making progress through the story and pursuits.)

The gear vendor sees statistical anomalies as an opportunity to capitalize. "OP" weapons and gear become the target of desire and exploitation. They seek out people who do not know the value of what they have, they acquire it, and then sell the goods to another player at an increased price. This is the game of "buy low; sell high" and it is a wonderful and exciting game for those who play it.

Conversely, players making progress through the game have a very different experience. They are seeking higher rarities and higher numbers. The chase for them hinges on the opening of every lockbox an the defeat of every boss. The instant an orange item appears in their rewards box, they reach the climax of their experience. The moment when they open their inventory and compare that gear to their previous gear is the most pivotal moment in their daily or weekly gaming experience.

When that piece of gear, that legendary gear that they've slaved for, is inferior to the green or blue they already have, they have a negative experience. They have a negative experience that quite commonly directly causes them to leave the game. When the shields were wrong, this experience happened every single day to quite a few players. It's a terrible gaming experience, and we're not going to encourage it to continue.

With the update to shields, to correct high rarity gear with low rarity stats, we only improved inventory items. We're not going to maintain a negative experience for most our players so that a select few may maintain a competitive advantage.

Why do you want to become one of the "gear vendors" you demonize? You could have improved lockboxes but instead ruin them giving us a negative experience. I guess people with deep pockets can use bits and have that competitive advantage.

Z0mb1E
07-11-2014, 09:26 PM
Why do you want to become one of the "gear vendors" you demonize? You could have improved lockboxes but instead ruin them giving us a negative experience. I guess people with deep pockets can use bits and have that competitive advantage.

Odds are better at the local casino's, and even if it weren't, at least there I can drink cheaply

dramaQkarri
07-11-2014, 10:03 PM
Odds are better at the local casino's, and even if it weren't, at least there I can drink cheaply

If you sit in the same place long enough at a casino you can get free drinks in fact.

dramaQkarri
07-11-2014, 10:06 PM
This whole F2P model they're using is flawed, I'm convinced. The business model is geared towards apps, which are free or just 99 cents on your smartphone. THEN they start selling you stuff for 99 cents until the end of time. This, to me, is microtransaction model. I get it. I'm not even upset by those games (though I won't play them). Same as iTunes, a song is 99 cents or $1.29. MICRO. Not a $16 outfit for a game I paid $60 + $50 (DLC's) for. You can't just morph a AAA game into the F2P business model. So trying to drive us into the store will not work. And it won't work for the new F2P players either...they want to spend 99 cents at a time, not $10+ at a time. People notice $10!!

Alastar
07-12-2014, 04:02 PM
Wait when was Defiance ever a AAA game :D :P

Ruinne
07-12-2014, 07:46 PM
Here's a suggestion for everyone, go back to playing without forge. We did it for ages, it was still fun. Sure ark forge was a fun addition to the game but it's clearly not for fun now, it's for cash. So if it detracts from the enjoyment the game, ignore it. I'm going back to my lottery tickets for my keys and events.

Griffix8
07-12-2014, 08:19 PM
Here's a suggestion for everyone, go back to playing without forge. We did it for ages, it was still fun. Sure ark forge was a fun addition to the game but it's clearly not for fun now, it's for cash. So if it detracts from the enjoyment the game, ignore it. I'm going back to my lottery tickets for my keys and events.
Problem with playing without Forge is that your weapons will start to severely lack after just a few hundred levels in difference.

dramaQkarri
07-12-2014, 09:15 PM
Wait when was Defiance ever a AAA game :D :P

Well that was the plan when it was hatched...I'm sure SyFy is disappointed too.

Ruinne
07-13-2014, 05:19 AM
Problem with playing without Forge is that your weapons will start to severely lack after just a few hundred levels in difference.

You can replace them in a heart beat, I know that Arkforge was a fun mechanic and it was convenient as well, but now Trion wants to you to pay for fun and convenient mechanics. Honestly Arkforge is so optional, I'm glad they chose it instead of fast travel, car tires, or bullets to get money out of players.

DeadEye68
07-13-2014, 06:28 AM
I'm glad they chose it instead of fast travel, car tires, or bullets to get money out of players.

Careful where you step, you're gonna put lice in the pelt.

Ruinne
07-13-2014, 09:03 AM
Careful where you step, you're gonna put lice in the pelt.

I apologise unreservedly, I shall shut my stupid mouth and keep my ideas to myself.

dramaQkarri
07-13-2014, 09:29 AM
I apologise unreservedly, I shall shut my stupid mouth and keep my ideas to myself.

LOLZ no worries, when has The Company ever done anything that was a player's idea?

Oh wait, isn't 7th Legion based entirely on what some clans were doing for months on their own?

Meh.

Stogie
07-14-2014, 10:09 AM
I don't care what my EGO tells me, My OCD tells me I need to keep my weapons par with my Level. But anytime I break off from fighting the War Monkey my Rating gets ahead of my weapons due to lack of Arkforge. So I have to farm and remain an Arkforge ***** in order to keep up.
Well I am getting bored with fighting the monkey and running minor arkfalls, I want to do some other things and have some fun with Co Ops and other daily's.
When I buy a Tier4 lockbox and get another Orange gun its like a slap in the face, by the time I get it modded it is obsolete and a new yellow or blue is just as powerful.

Ruinne
07-14-2014, 11:32 AM
I don't care what my EGO tells me, My OCD tells me I need to keep my weapons par with my Level. But anytime I break off from fighting the War Monkey my Rating gets ahead of my weapons due to lack of Arkforge. So I have to farm and remain an Arkforge ***** in order to keep up.
Well I am getting bored with fighting the monkey and running minor arkfalls, I want to do some other things and have some fun with Co Ops and other daily's.
When I buy a Tier4 lockbox and get another Orange gun its like a slap in the face, by the time I get it modded it is obsolete and a new yellow or blue is just as powerful.

You can still do that, but you'll need to have your credit card ready.

Lillith Valerian
07-14-2014, 04:30 PM
Nah. F2P games started off with this assumption: they had to make things extremely out of reach in order to get people to spend. Many developers are now acknowledging you don't necessarily need to limit supply to create artificial demand.

One key with F2P games is keeping players around. The game needs to be fun for everyone; and MMOs tend to not be as fun when solo. Limiting features too much drives people away, and reduces the potential buyer market. It dissuades purchasing. Who wants to spend money on a dead game?

The problem with limiting arkforge too much for those leveling is you level too quickly. Why bother trying to grind for arkforge, just to outlevel even more the weapon you are going to spend the arkforge on? It's just not appealing.

They are making arkforge while leveling almost a luxury, and this is after charging people for inventory, keycode space, etc. It's too much.

QFT.

It feels like something between a blatant money grab and spiraling desperation. And something that feels like it's constantly trying to force it's way into my purse, while reeking of desperation at the same time, leaves me feeling both angry at the attempt and weary of spending anything I *would* otherwise spend. The game felt like it was dying before, and now it feels just greedy. Is it both? I'm not spending either way.

People can bleat all they want about leveling up guns being 'optional'. That's bull**** and everyone knows it. A large part of the fun in this game is finding and using weapons you like, not being forced to pick up and use whatever you happen to find. They abandoned that concept due to player demand when they dropped mastery maxing, and now Trick is right back to forcing his Borderlands weapon system fetish in the game again, only this time profit-based.

I also ignore Trion apologists who babble on about 'herp yor doin it wrong derp' whenever I say I can't farm enough arkforge, and they go straight to the ignore list. It ranks right up there with the colossal idiocy of telling the community we're playing the game wrong. I Jump from one event to the next. I place in single digits often. I make a sincere effort. I only have a couple of oranges in the mix of purples and blues. And despite this, I'm always behind. By their deliberate design.

I've bought more than my fair share of outfits despite the price, but they were entirely optional, so I didn't feel forced. I will not purchase something if I feel coerced. And even if I were inclined to buy arkforge, the prices are absolutely insane.

I love this game, but hate it so much.

Mudturtle Jones
07-14-2014, 06:01 PM
I love this game, but hate it so much.

Should be on forum header.

Ruinne
07-17-2014, 08:22 AM
People can bleat all they want about leveling up guns being 'optional'. That's bull**** and everyone knows it. A large part of the fun in this game is finding and using weapons you like, not being forced to pick up and use whatever you happen to find. They abandoned that concept due to player demand when they dropped mastery maxing, and now Trick is right back to forcing his Borderlands weapon system fetish in the game again, only this time profit-based.

But it is absolutely optional, so is playing though, and the game is greatly reduced without Arkfroge. My issue is that Arkforge was introduced to all of us, being the players that bought this game as a fun mechanic for us to enjoy for the money we spent on buying the game and its DLC. It was then promptly made out of reach and turned into the primary method for Trion to monetise this game. Arkforge had become a core mechanic in this game and it added a lot to the whole mod and weapon set up for players.

This feels like "We need to sell stuff to our players but there's only five staff left so there's no way we're making new things. What can we take out to sell back to them?"

Make new things to sell us like vehicles and outfits. Make some new races for the store, new cosmetic items that aren't sold for $20 a pop. Of course, those aren't consumable, the goal here is to sell a core - consumable - for cash.


I love this game, but hate it so much.

Truer words have never been spoken.

RevJaye
07-23-2014, 02:04 PM
Please stop being greedy. Im not made of money and will not buy ark forge. If you were going to make it like this you never should've brought out the concept in the first place. It ruined the weapons market and now we cant even use it to level anything up or upgrade anything because it costs a fortune in the store for 500 bits. Its pretty much $20 to upgrade a gun from epic to legendary. that's terrible.

Yrkul
07-23-2014, 03:12 PM
The nerf is definitely felt. While I'm still able to keep my equipment up to date (mainly blues, a few purple and two oranges), I have no left over arkforge for experimenting with promising drops. All characters have passed the 4K mark, though, and my main will progress little more, since there are a sizable chunk of pursuits that I either can't or won't complete. Thus the expense for upkeep will peter out very soon.

And that's the flaw in this little scam. Once a character hits max level, that possibility of revenue disappears. Now they want to extend the need for arkforge, of course, by offering the possibility to reroll bonuses and synergies. Problem is, that's not going to last either. In the meantime resentment builds up due to these obvious money grabs, constant nerfing and half-baked content.

Defiance may be able to survive, since there are people that were willing to buy a random legendary with random T4 mods at ridiculous prices. The question is if there are enough of these human doormats for Trion to stand safely on.

N3gativeCr33p
07-23-2014, 05:17 PM
Defiance may be able to survive, since there are people that were willing to buy a random legendary with random T4 mods at ridiculous prices. The question is if there are enough of these human doormats for Trion to stand safely on.

I already have one foot out the proverbial door... I won't be one of their doormats.

konstantinov
07-23-2014, 07:53 PM
I pull maybe 200 arkforge a day if I'm lucky.

Yrkul
07-23-2014, 09:27 PM
I pull maybe 200 arkforge a day if I'm lucky.
And that will be eaten up by 2 legendaries and 5 epics for every 100 EGO you gain.

It's funny how gear-centric this game is, yet whenever you get another high tier piece of gear, it's more a burden than blessing. You essentially get punished for that longer, unfulfilling chase.

Pandur
07-24-2014, 02:00 AM
I pull maybe 200 arkforge a day if I'm lucky.

Yeah the Arkforge from boxes is as dead as i expected it would be.
Doesn't bother me as much as i thought it would though.

My PVP weapons are all legendary and well rolled, and i don't feel any need to upgrade my PVE weapons to perfect rolls since EGO 5300 I just faceroll wade through the mobs anyways.
Of course there will be new things implemented to try to create a demand for arkforge.


And I haven't bought any Arkforge nor will i ever.

Lyokira
07-24-2014, 06:34 AM
I don't care what my EGO tells me, My OCD tells me I need to keep my weapons par with my Level. But anytime I break off from fighting the War Monkey my Rating gets ahead of my weapons due to lack of Arkforge. So I have to farm and remain an Arkforge ***** in order to keep up.
Well I am getting bored with fighting the monkey and running minor arkfalls, I want to do some other things and have some fun with Co Ops and other daily's.
When I buy a Tier4 lockbox and get another Orange gun its like a slap in the face, by the time I get it modded it is obsolete and a new yellow or blue is just as powerful.

If it's so easy to get a new yellow or blue of equivalent power (and presumably, closer to your ego level), why not use those instead?

drackiller
07-24-2014, 07:38 AM
If it's so easy to get a new yellow or blue of equivalent power (and presumably, closer to your ego level), why not use those instead?

There are yellow weapons in this game? I need to check my eyes...

TTOWNZ DIRTIEST
07-24-2014, 08:46 AM
if you set your console to 1080p instead of 720...then yea the greens look yellow and visa-versa

bigguy
07-24-2014, 01:24 PM
Yup hundreds and hundreds of boxes and arkforge is still non existent for me - Working as intended BS

DeadEye68
07-25-2014, 02:11 PM
Yup hundreds and hundreds of boxes and arkforge is still non existent for me - Working as intended BS

That's kinda hard to believe. Pulled 360 AF so far from 353 boxes -roughly 5 times less than before- at 8 keys per AF, AF yield frequency slightly above 3%. It's not great, but not remotely as bad as some make it sound.