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CRIXDA
07-10-2014, 09:51 PM
I feel quite insulted today.
I feel as though something that I really like has been taken from me and handed to someone else, because I "didn't care for it properly" or I was "too reckless and careless with it".
The Warmaster battle was taken away from me.
I will not subscribe to the "Lock Keeper" vs. Whatever argument, I find that entire thing completely and grossly irrelevant. Point blank : I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S @$$ ABOUT ANY CRAPPY LEGENDARY GUN THAT DEFEATING THE WARMASTER WILL GET ME. So that "Factoid" right there is a steaming lump of shtako.
If the limit of players in the Warmaster instance is 25, then at 25 Arkhunters noone else should get in - PERIOD.
I don't want the locks to be broken straight away because I want to get THE MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE PLAYERS in the instance so that we have the best possible chance to beat the Warmaster.
KEEP the stupid guns.
I just want to destroy the Warmaster.
I don't "grief" anyone and if someone shoots the locks, I politely ask them to stop.
I am a minority? We Arkhunters here on the forums are "the minority"?
The Browncoats, The Freemasons, Triggers Down, Sugar House Gang, The Dark Legion, He Was Number One, Dawn Patrol, Nuclear Elite, Nuclear Rubber, The Fallen, Arkhunter Elite - The List goes on and on - clans with members who number into the THOUSANDS and are growing faster every day. We are no minority and news spreads oh, so fast.
I was shocked to come onto Defiance today and learn that I was playing the game wrong, playing the Warmaster in a way it was not intended. Shocked to learn that I am a minority, and only concerned with getting legendary gear.
I never wanted to learn that I AM the problem, when I always want to find the solution.
A very bitter pill to swallow today.

Mushbeeguy
07-10-2014, 10:01 PM
I respect you and your opinion.

Watching Livestreams has not given me a great deal of confidence in the support of this game. Statements of this management individual only confirms respect is not a quality we can expect.
One instance that sticks in my mind was when 'they' were playing a low level ego after DLC5 to prove to us it was easy. One of the first things he did was say 'watch this' as his vehicle disappeared from under him...laughing about it. Don't laugh. that should have been fixed MONTHS ago, you should be embarassed!

Sad.

Big Jack Shepard
07-10-2014, 10:38 PM
Trion doesn't want my respect. So, they don't have it.

Riz
07-11-2014, 04:22 AM
I never really liked the WM when the Arkbreaker-DLC was released, mostly because it was almost a guaranteed DC upon entering. And if you made it in you certainly had to relog when you got out since the game got instantly laggy. But still, every now and then on a special occasion or invite...

Then DLC 5 came along with the new scaling-system. Two high EGO's make a TL10 situation and the monkey became a TL10-enemy every time with that. Sadly Trion failed to scale the WM to the amount players present and their combined EGO. This meant that 5 players fighting the monkey had to burn through the same health as 24 players since the WM directly scaled to a set TL10-difficulty. And even with a full group of 24 players defeating the WM was not a given fact. If not 15-18 players present that knew what they were doing and how to defeat it, it was a waste of good time. But players got smart, patient and managed to find a way around the 24-playercap. 30 players almost guarantees a win, but it did cost some serious 'ninja inviting' and asking in clanchats to actually get those 30 players inside. Took time... More time than some players wanted to spent on it. Lockbreakers complained, Lockkeepers defended and...

... Trion (Trick) picked sides! A timer of 30 seconds before the vents on the topfloor auto-open, another 3 minutes before the locks of the WM auto-break. Pretty short and totally wrong.

I've attended WM's in where i had to wait such long periods of time that i could do the laundry, the dishes and smoke a cigarette in the meantime before we were allowed to break the locks. Waiting for people to still come online because they were playing another game, or were in the middle of a coop that they wanted to finish and so on. Meanwhile keeping a ****load of players patiently waiting at the WM. I agree Trion needed to do something about that. You are either in or out... But dont leave that many players waiting!

Sadly Trion then turned around and did the right thing in wrong order!

Basicly a timer is ok... But not before you fix some other stuff beforehand!

1. Raid Groups-
If you want people to organize such an event beforehand you have to hand them the tools to do so. Allowing them to make groups of 24 players before putting down the batteries. So no more waiting for people to come online or finish their current activity. All-in and go!

2. Matchmaking-
Some players dont have the possibility to get 24 players together in a group, or even be invited to such a group. They should make a matchmaking-system for it. You can queue and when 24 players have queue'd a major arkfallsite appears on the map for one of those 24 people to call down the Arkfall.

3. Connection Issues-
The WM is a wonky instance. Still, after a year, almost 50% of the players DC upon entering (PS3). If you want 24 players to enter the WM you should make sure all 24 players actually DO get in without disconnecting. After a DC you have to quit the game and relog, this most likely takes more than 3 minutes. So when you DC you're automaticly out of the event since it started without you. Unacceptable!

4. Proper Scaling-
Why does the monkey have the same heath and armor against 10 players as it has against 30 players? Just because it is both TL10? That's ******ed! The WM should not scale in Treat Levels, it should scale on players present and their combined EGO's.

When these problems have been solved and those tools have been implanted into the game you can add a timer to the locks. No problems there. When a Raid Group of 20 players decide to go for it anyways, they have 3,5 minutes to get 4 more people in after killing the last enemy on the topfloor. Or try to exceed the 24 playercap as they wish and invite more people in. Reasonable, and it avoids unnecessary waiting.

What they did now is totally the other way around. You cant enter with a group of more than 4 players, half of them will still DC upon entering denying the remaining players a chance at success. The WM will now most likely start with 10-15 players inside and half of them unaware on what to do. Trion choose to adjust the ratio of spent time and rewards by shorten it, this will have it's impact on the amount of legendaries that can be won here. Many players are in for the legendaries or just for the kill and the success of defeating the WM. It became a 'shoot-around-for-6-minutes-and-walk-away-with-some-rewards' event.

I played a lot of Borderlands 2, owning most Legendaries the game has to offer. I know what loadout is best for which Raid Boss and have pretty high chance at success when going against these bosses. It's the loot i'm in for, the thrill of putting the bastard down and have fun with my partners in that coop. I wouldnt play Pyro Pete if i lost and died 10 out of 10 times, who would?

I also play FIFA 14, Ultimate Team in Division One. Play against the Elite that the PS3 has to offer in FIFA-Ultimate Team. Each game starts for me with a 33,3% chance of victory (draw and losing make the 100% full). And even when defeated i most likely still had a tight game, lots of excitement and therefor FUN!

Trion forgot that real gamers dont play a game for just the fun, they also want that chance to shine and have success. They want excitement on even when failing, still getting close to winning. Which real gamer is gonna spent 10 minutes at an event that has a 99% chance for an Epic Fail? No one but the new F2P-noobs, and they got served. Trion picked sides, insulting their vets on the way... Not meant to insult? Trick wrote it no? Phantasie and Scapes reviewed it and didnt bother to scrap those lines. Thats 3 employees unable to see the damage from a few 'harmless' lines, which only makes it worse!

Trick mentioned that the WM didnt got played as it was designed... Guess what m8! 80% of the games on the market, especially MMO's, arent played as they were designed. You design the game, you made the game and launched it. After launch its up to the players to decide how it's going to be played.

Example: Borderlands 2, duel-duping never meant to happen! For the people that dont know. You can duel another player for an item. But before the other player shoots/kills you, you equip and then unequip that item and throw it out of your backpack. The other player then shoots you and gets the item, but there is now also that same item on the floor! So it got duped. The loser offering the item picks up his own item and both players walk away with a great gun or shield.

Gearbox thought about fixing this since it got in the way of what Trick would call 'the longer, more fulfilling chase'. No more hours of farming for that specific item if you find the right person to help you. In the end they choose NOT to fix this! Why? Gearbox saw that this duping brought players together, it formed a bond as players gave each other dupes of their best gear and then went out together to kill Raid Bosses. This extended the life-span of the game tremendously as it encouradged real gameplay and avoided players getting bored and burned out of farming for that weapon or shield. Sadly Trion did the opposite. They deny players their chance for good loot and force them to settle for nothing but a handful of keys and scrip. Bad move!

BJWyler
07-11-2014, 05:09 AM
I feel quite insulted today.
I feel as though something that I really like has been taken from me and handed to someone else, because I "didn't care for it properly" or I was "too reckless and careless with it".
The Warmaster battle was taken away from me.
I will not subscribe to the "Lock Keeper" vs. Whatever argument, I find that entire thing completely and grossly irrelevant. Point blank : I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S @$$ ABOUT ANY CRAPPY LEGENDARY GUN THAT DEFEATING THE WARMASTER WILL GET ME. So that "Factoid" right there is a steaming lump of shtako.
If the limit of players in the Warmaster instance is 25, then at 25 Arkhunters noone else should get in - PERIOD.
I don't want the locks to be broken straight away because I want to get THE MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE PLAYERS in the instance so that we have the best possible chance to beat the Warmaster.
KEEP the stupid guns.
I just want to destroy the Warmaster.
I don't "grief" anyone and if someone shoots the locks, I politely ask them to stop.
I am a minority? We Arkhunters here on the forums are "the minority"?
The Browncoats, The Freemasons, Triggers Down, Sugar House Gang, The Dark Legion, He Was Number One, Dawn Patrol, Nuclear Elite, Nuclear Rubber, The Fallen, Arkhunter Elite - The List goes on and on - clans with members who number into the THOUSANDS and are growing faster every day. We are no minority and news spreads oh, so fast.
I was shocked to come onto Defiance today and learn that I was playing the game wrong, playing the Warmaster in a way it was not intended. Shocked to learn that I am a minority, and only concerned with getting legendary gear.
I never wanted to learn that I AM the problem, when I always want to find the solution.
A very bitter pill to swallow today.

Absolutely agree.

Oh, and don't forget about United Legions!!

N3gativeCr33p
07-11-2014, 05:14 AM
1. Raid Groups-
If you want people to organize such an event beforehand you have to hand them the tools to do so. Allowing them to make groups of 24 players before putting down the batteries. So no more waiting for people to come online or finish their current activity. All-in and go!

Bravo!

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r67/N3gativeCr33p/KurtClapping_zpse86c6e1c.gif

xxxxmingoxxxx
07-11-2014, 06:25 AM
we have talked before. what the dev team doent understand is that the minority that post are heads of clans .when you get a response from them it gets taken back to the game. if we were playing not as intended WHY didnt the dev team that read these post say so when the problem first got brought up.they let many posters believe that lock breaking early was a problem.weeks have past since posts have been out about it.i dont post.but ido come on to read what the responses of the dev team have to say to the posts .we shouldnt have to read between the lines to there responses.right from the getgo the answer should have been we wont players in and out no waiting. thats alittle short but you get the point.repore is everything .just a question but how do you have respect for someone when youve been talking to them for months and they arent strieght forward with you.it is a gameyou ask they tell whats so hard about that.the dev team has known a long time what they were going to do . and there stand on the matter.they have no respect for those of you that post .the only thing they wont is a heads up on what is going on in the game and what to look for . were beta tester for free.and there snitches.

OldDude_
07-11-2014, 06:35 AM
Geez Louise, get over it already !! It's not going to change ! All this whining and crying like babies is getting old. Maybe if you high EGO "I am a Gaming God and I have been here since day ONE, SO TRION OWES ME EVERYTHING" would have not been harrasing and insulting new players this would not have happened. The griefing of lower EGO players and acting like morons have finally bit you in the butts. Deal with it pumpkin!

Peace

CRIXDA
07-11-2014, 06:49 AM
I want to take a small moment to familiarize everyone with something that You all "kind of" know about and how it related to what we are talking about here.
"Top Gun" in the United States Navy, is the Naval Warfare Advanced Training. What happens at Top Gun is they take the pilots and train them and then pilots take the info back to the fleet and train all of the rest of the pilots. A very basic overview of Miramar, yes - but very relevant to what Mingo is talking about. We pick up tactics, ideas, events, plans and doctrine here and distribute it throughout our clans. We aren't a bunch of angry folks with nothing to do at work until we get home to play.
The idea insults the sh!t out of me and I am very shocked to know that it came from where it did.
We play the game the best way that we know how. This "timer" is crap. I will plant my batteries and ride away, screw the stupid Warmaster.
I am not even going to waste my time with that garbage anymore.
What was once a really cool and enjoyable fight will now be stupid and frustrating, not because of lockbreakers but because THE PLAYERS NO LONGER GET TO DECIDE HOW TO PLAY THE GAME ANYMORE.

N3gativeCr33p
07-11-2014, 06:54 AM
"Top Gun" in the United States Navy, is the Naval Warfare Advanced Training. What happens at Top Gun is they take the pilots and train them and then pilots take the info back to the fleet and train all of the rest of the pilots.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r67/N3gativeCr33p/maverick_zpsb1a62314.gif

SxB_xPUDDYTATx
07-11-2014, 06:57 AM
Example: Borderlands 2, duel-duping never meant to happen! For the people that dont know. You can duel another player for an item. But before the other player shoots/kills you, you equip and then unequip that item and throw it out of your backpack. The other player then shoots you and gets the item, but there is now also that same item on the floor! So it got duped. The loser offering the item picks up his own item and both players walk away with a great gun or shield.

Gearbox thought about fixing this since it got in the way of what Trick would call 'the longer, more fulfilling chase'. No more hours of farming for that specific item if you find the right person to help you. In the end they choose NOT to fix this! Why? Gearbox saw that this duping brought players together, it formed a bond as players gave each other dupes of their best gear and then went out together to kill Raid Bosses. This extended the life-span of the game tremendously as it encouradged real gameplay and avoided players getting bored and burned out of farming for that weapon or shield. Sadly Trion did the opposite. They deny players their chance for good loot and force them to settle for nothing but a handful of keys and scrip. Bad move!

this was a great post Riz. i would like to add one other thing, since you brought up gearbox and BL2...

i was/am an avid borderlands fan. i can remember one particular day on bl2, i logged in shortly after a game update. in that update, they had changed the drop rate for legendary weapons. i was waiting for a friend to log in, so i decided to do a little farming while i waited. i headed out to find Vorcidous, and when i killed hm, he dropped 4 legendaries. i was stunned, so i backed out, let him respawn, and killed him again. 4 more legendaries. this happened time and time again. i started texting my friend to get on quick, something was up.

my friend logged on about 25 minutes after i did, and he went into his own game so as not to raise the difficulty of the boss fight. he killed Vicidous promptly, but no legendaries. he tried 3 times, but recieved nothing. i, on the other hand, was still recieving 4 drops per kill. i ended up making 5 mules to carry all the gear to be sorted out later.

WHAT HAPPENED WAS gearbox misplaced a decimal point in the drop rate, making it a 155% chance of getting a legendary drop on a kill. but in that 25 minutes it took my friend to log in, they had released a hotfix for the mistake. since i was already in, i could farm until i logged out, and got the hotfix immediatly upon relogging into the game. this is legitimate. there was a problem, and it was fixed right away. they did not wait 4 months, 6 months, they didnt even wait a day. the game was flawed and it was dealt with swiftly.

Trion has a tendency to wait for months at a time, then decide that something is not "working as intended". this is an unacceptable practice by any means. if you build it, release it, and let it go for so long, you are going to upset your player base tremendously when you finally decide to change it. with all of the other problems in this game, i would think that changing grenades, shields, warmasters, and adding more and more currencies should be low on the list of priorities. try fixing the servers, lag, disconnects, and core gameplay problems. if all of that worked correctly, maybe we would have a little more patience when it comes to event changes.

CRIXDA
07-11-2014, 07:59 AM
Geez Louise, get over it already !! It's not going to change ! All this whining and crying like babies is getting old. Maybe if you high EGO "I am a Gaming God and I have been here since day ONE, SO TRION OWES ME EVERYTHING" would have not been harrasing and insulting new players this would not have happened. The griefing of lower EGO players and acting like morons have finally bit you in the butts. Deal with it pumpkin!

Peace

Peace be onto You, my friend.
Just to clear a few things up because I am afraid that you are laboring under a gross missaprehension:
My Knickname is not "Pumpkin", it is "Puddin'". (Lolz)
I haven't griefed any lower-level player for breaking the locks on The Warmaster's. Containment feild. As I stated above, I asked politely for players to "PLEASE DO NOT BREAK THE LOCKS" and I am very specific about it. I hate that you missed that part of my post.
I don't have any "High and Mighty" attitude in-game, I don't have a "God-Complex" and I certainly hope that folks don't think that I do because I try to be a very friendly and open guy. I don't get caught up. In the "zone chat wars", I try to stay above that.
Hhey, if you need help on XBL NA just look around and ask for some help from Puddin' and I will try and help you but I won't be wasting my time in Warmaster fights anymore.
Puddin'........out.

Riz
07-11-2014, 08:01 AM
this was a great post Riz. i would like to add one other thing, since you brought up gearbox and BL2...

Thx m8. Am a great Borderlands-fan as well. And Gearbox really knows how to treat their playerbase pretty well (besides the ACM-debacle lol). They make mistakes, see it, acknowledge it, apologize and hotfix it.

You're absolutely right on the 'lazyness' of Trion. They let things hang for ages, then try to fix it. Fix the fix, fix the fix that fixed the fix, and so on... Then finally get it reasonably right after letting the game be unplayable for a whole weekend and give a loot-weekend which then ends up making the game even more laggier the weekend after that... Pffff...

It's been a year since DLC 2... Still DC upon entering, and then 'fix' something that without other improvements will only make things worse. Let Cloak be OP for 15 months in PvP, then announce a fix. If they would have fixed these things the moment the problem occured the frustation from the playerbase would be a whole lot less. They seem to have a priority list, but i think they work it from bottom up.

N3gativeCr33p
07-11-2014, 08:11 AM
I don't have any "High and Mighty" attitude in-game, I don't have a "God-Complex" and I certainly hope that folks don't think that I do because I try to be a very friendly and open guy.

If anything, you're like the exact opposite of those kinds of people.

dramaQkarri
07-11-2014, 08:29 AM
Hear hear, Crixda. Well done.

Brianflipside
07-11-2014, 08:37 AM
Thx m8. Am a great Borderlands-fan as well. And Gearbox really knows how to treat their playerbase pretty well (besides the ACM-debacle lol). They make mistakes, see it, acknowledge it, apologize and hotfix it.

You're absolutely right on the 'lazyness' of Trion. They let things hang for ages, then try to fix it. Fix the fix, fix the fix that fixed the fix, and so on... Then finally get it reasonably right after letting the game be unplayable for a whole weekend and give a loot-weekend which then ends up making the game even more laggier the weekend after that... Pffff...

It's been a year since DLC 2... Still DC upon entering, and then 'fix' something that without other improvements will only make things worse. Let Cloak be OP for 15 months in PvP, then announce a fix. If they would have fixed these things the moment the problem occured the frustation from the playerbase would be a whole lot less. They seem to have a priority list, but i think they work it from bottom up.

Funny thing is Trick worked for Gearbox for 2 Seconds before they booted him. I think Defiance is his revenge. God knows he has the meaning of the word Defiance right----he is "Defiant" to making this game pleasurable.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/Brianflipside/BeFunky_6B1C392D-D004-4878-A252-AEB55C56C730jpg-2.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Brianflipside/media/BeFunky_6B1C392D-D004-4878-A252-AEB55C56C730jpg-2.jpg.html)

Bentu
07-11-2014, 08:46 AM
Geez Louise, get over it already !! It's not going to change ! All this whining and crying like babies is getting old. Maybe if you high EGO "I am a Gaming God and I have been here since day ONE, SO TRION OWES ME EVERYTHING" would have not been harrasing and insulting new players this would not have happened. The griefing of lower EGO players and acting like morons have finally bit you in the butts. Deal with it pumpkin!

Peace

Let me just ask you this "have you been in a successful Warmaster the way Trick (Trion) wants you to do it?"

Tell you what, I'll answer for you, it's no.

You cannot just drop down and break the locks and kill the Warmaster (unless you've been extremely lucky and managed to solo him).

Trion (Trick) have released a fix that has deliberately set players against each other with this and it's not the new players fault.

They're going to come into a game where Trick (Trion) and ego are telling you to do something that you don't have a snowballs chance in hell of doing because the game isn't stable enough.

Yes we are the "Minority" and yes we maybe stupid enough to have stuck it out for all this time but that doesn't give Trick (Trion) the right to treat us with the contempt that they have. .

OldDude_
07-11-2014, 09:13 AM
Sorry about that Puddin...lol. No I do not think YOU are that type of Person. But you have to admit, a majority oft the high ego players Seem to be. As CrazyOldDude in the ps3, I habe played the Wm about 5 times and have won 3 oft those times. No I have to play him since the patch, but I play for the loot, keys, and arkforge...oh and to try to outscore the EGOmaniacs with scrub green weapons. I am just a tad bit dissapointed with some the Posters who I used to respect have become whiney little critters. The Trick is not ging to fix it. So I say lets play it bis way and kick the monkeys butt.

Peace

DeadEye68
07-11-2014, 09:19 AM
lets play it bis way and kick the monkeys butt.

That would be an Universe ending paradox.

ConcreteSnake
07-11-2014, 09:20 AM
Funny thing is Trick worked for Gearbox for 2 Seconds before they booted him. I think Defiance is his revenge. God knows he has the meaning of the word Defiance right----he is "Defiant" to making this game pleasurable.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/Brianflipside/BeFunky_6B1C392D-D004-4878-A252-AEB55C56C730jpg-2.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Brianflipside/media/BeFunky_6B1C392D-D004-4878-A252-AEB55C56C730jpg-2.jpg.html)

awesome picture, lol. A timer is fine, but why only 3 minutes? You can still break the locks so why not a 10 minute timer to give people time to disco out and invite friends and be ready for battle and the timer would still help the event progress for those that felt the wait was too long. Another idea is to have 2 doors to enter the arkbreak, one with a timer for "speed runs" and one without timer for "monkey beaters"

SxB_xPUDDYTATx
07-11-2014, 11:34 AM
Funny thing is Trick worked for Gearbox for 2 Seconds before they booted him. I think Defiance is his revenge. God knows he has the meaning of the word Defiance right----he is "Defiant" to making this game pleasurable.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/Brianflipside/BeFunky_6B1C392D-D004-4878-A252-AEB55C56C730jpg-2.jpg (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Brianflipside/media/BeFunky_6B1C392D-D004-4878-A252-AEB55C56C730jpg-2.jpg.html)

he was an intern at gearbox. what is even harder to understand is that he was a mission designer for rockstar on red dead redemption, a game that i enjoyed every single second of when i played it over and over and over. its one of my favorite games of all time, and yet it seems like nothing was learned working on such a fantastic game.

TASHINKA
07-11-2014, 11:44 AM
Peace be onto You, my friend.
Just to clear a few things up because I am afraid that you are laboring under a gross missaprehension:
My Knickname is not "Pumpkin", it is "Puddin'". (Lolz)
I haven't griefed any lower-level player for breaking the locks on The Warmaster's. Containment feild. As I stated above, I asked politely for players to "PLEASE DO NOT BREAK THE LOCKS" and I am very specific about it. I hate that you missed that part of my post.
I don't have any "High and Mighty" attitude in-game, I don't have a "God-Complex" and I certainly hope that folks don't think that I do because I try to be a very friendly and open guy. I don't get caught up. In the "zone chat wars", I try to stay above that.
Hhey, if you need help on XBL NA just look around and ask for some help from Puddin' and I will try and help you but I won't be wasting my time in Warmaster fights anymore.
Puddin'........out.I think the Old Dude just wanted a sample of some monkey bread (pumpkin flavor)!! lol

Overtkill21
07-11-2014, 11:48 AM
Geez Louise, get over it already !! It's not going to change ! All this whining and crying like babies is getting old. Maybe if you high EGO "I am a Gaming God and I have been here since day ONE, SO TRION OWES ME EVERYTHING" would have not been harrasing and insulting new players this would not have happened. The griefing of lower EGO players and acting like morons have finally bit you in the butts. Deal with it pumpkin!

Peace

Hehehe, oh Trick - it's not necessary to make a fake account to troll the players - you do it quite well using your Scapes-goats...LOL.

N3gativeCr33p
07-11-2014, 12:13 PM
what is even harder to understand is that he was a mission designer for rockstar on red dead redemption, a game that i enjoyed every single second of when i played it over and over and over.

Color me shocked... I had no idea. Red Dead Redemption is one of my all-time favorites, as well!

Punisher Illinois Blue
07-11-2014, 12:21 PM
"Top Gun" in the United States Navy, is the Naval Warfare Advanced Training. What happens at Top Gun is they take the pilots and train them and then pilots take the info back to the fleet and train all of the rest of the pilots. A very basic overview of Miramar, yes - but very relevant to what Mingo is talking about. We pick up tactics, ideas, events, plans and doctrine here and distribute it throughout our clans. We aren't a bunch of angry folks with nothing to do at work until we get home to play.
The idea insults the sh!t out of me and I am very shocked to know that it came from where it did.


Tomcat ally, Miramar is USM territory now the school is in Nevada NAS Fallon. TOPGUN it self has been gone for awhile and is Part of NSAWC.

I like this game but nothing compares to being in a Super D driver seat.

xxdarkxwarxx
07-11-2014, 12:27 PM
I never really liked the WM when the Arkbreaker-DLC was released, mostly because it was almost a guaranteed DC upon entering. And if you made it in you certainly had to relog when you got out since the game got instantly laggy. But still, every now and then on a special occasion or invite...

Then DLC 5 came along with the new scaling-system. Two high EGO's make a TL10 situation and the monkey became a TL10-enemy every time with that. Sadly Trion failed to scale the WM to the amount players present and their combined EGO. This meant that 5 players fighting the monkey had to burn through the same health as 24 players since the WM directly scaled to a set TL10-difficulty. And even with a full group of 24 players defeating the WM was not a given fact. If not 15-18 players present that knew what they were doing and how to defeat it, it was a waste of good time. But players got smart, patient and managed to find a way around the 24-playercap. 30 players almost guarantees a win, but it did cost some serious 'ninja inviting' and asking in clanchats to actually get those 30 players inside. Took time... More time than some players wanted to spent on it. Lockbreakers complained, Lockkeepers defended and...

... Trion (Trick) picked sides! A timer of 30 seconds before the vents on the topfloor auto-open, another 3 minutes before the locks of the WM auto-break. Pretty short and totally wrong.

I've attended WM's in where i had to wait such long periods of time that i could do the laundry, the dishes and smoke a cigarette in the meantime before we were allowed to break the locks. Waiting for people to still come online because they were playing another game, or were in the middle of a coop that they wanted to finish and so on. Meanwhile keeping a ****load of players patiently waiting at the WM. I agree Trion needed to do something about that. You are either in or out... But dont leave that many players waiting!

Sadly Trion then turned around and did the right thing in wrong order!

Basicly a timer is ok... But not before you fix some other stuff beforehand!

1. Raid Groups-
If you want people to organize such an event beforehand you have to hand them the tools to do so. Allowing them to make groups of 24 players before putting down the batteries. So no more waiting for people to come online or finish their current activity. All-in and go!

2. Matchmaking-
Some players dont have the possibility to get 24 players together in a group, or even be invited to such a group. They should make a matchmaking-system for it. You can queue and when 24 players have queue'd a major arkfallsite appears on the map for one of those 24 people to call down the Arkfall.

3. Connection Issues-
The WM is a wonky instance. Still, after a year, almost 50% of the players DC upon entering (PS3). If you want 24 players to enter the WM you should make sure all 24 players actually DO get in without disconnecting. After a DC you have to quit the game and relog, this most likely takes more than 3 minutes. So when you DC you're automaticly out of the event since it started without you. Unacceptable!

4. Proper Scaling-
Why does the monkey have the same heath and armor against 10 players as it has against 30 players? Just because it is both TL10? That's ******ed! The WM should not scale in Treat Levels, it should scale on players present and their combined EGO's.

When these problems have been solved and those tools have been implanted into the game you can add a timer to the locks. No problems there. When a Raid Group of 20 players decide to go for it anyways, they have 3,5 minutes to get 4 more people in after killing the last enemy on the topfloor. Or try to exceed the 24 playercap as they wish and invite more people in. Reasonable, and it avoids unnecessary waiting.

What they did now is totally the other way around. You cant enter with a group of more than 4 players, half of them will still DC upon entering denying the remaining players a chance at success. The WM will now most likely start with 10-15 players inside and half of them unaware on what to do. Trion choose to adjust the ratio of spent time and rewards by shorten it, this will have it's impact on the amount of legendaries that can be won here. Many players are in for the legendaries or just for the kill and the success of defeating the WM. It became a 'shoot-around-for-6-minutes-and-walk-away-with-some-rewards' event.

I played a lot of Borderlands 2, owning most Legendaries the game has to offer. I know what loadout is best for which Raid Boss and have pretty high chance at success when going against these bosses. It's the loot i'm in for, the thrill of putting the bastard down and have fun with my partners in that coop. I wouldnt play Pyro Pete if i lost and died 10 out of 10 times, who would?

I also play FIFA 14, Ultimate Team in Division One. Play against the Elite that the PS3 has to offer in FIFA-Ultimate Team. Each game starts for me with a 33,3% chance of victory (draw and losing make the 100% full). And even when defeated i most likely still had a tight game, lots of excitement and therefor FUN!

Trion forgot that real gamers dont play a game for just the fun, they also want that chance to shine and have success. They want excitement on even when failing, still getting close to winning. Which real gamer is gonna spent 10 minutes at an event that has a 99% chance for an Epic Fail? No one but the new F2P-noobs, and they got served. Trion picked sides, insulting their vets on the way... Not meant to insult? Trick wrote it no? Phantasie and Scapes reviewed it and didnt bother to scrap those lines. Thats 3 employees unable to see the damage from a few 'harmless' lines, which only makes it worse!

Trick mentioned that the WM didnt got played as it was designed... Guess what m8! 80% of the games on the market, especially MMO's, arent played as they were designed. You design the game, you made the game and launched it. After launch its up to the players to decide how it's going to be played.

Example: Borderlands 2, duel-duping never meant to happen! For the people that dont know. You can duel another player for an item. But before the other player shoots/kills you, you equip and then unequip that item and throw it out of your backpack. The other player then shoots you and gets the item, but there is now also that same item on the floor! So it got duped. The loser offering the item picks up his own item and both players walk away with a great gun or shield.

Gearbox thought about fixing this since it got in the way of what Trick would call 'the longer, more fulfilling chase'. No more hours of farming for that specific item if you find the right person to help you. In the end they choose NOT to fix this! Why? Gearbox saw that this duping brought players together, it formed a bond as players gave each other dupes of their best gear and then went out together to kill Raid Bosses. This extended the life-span of the game tremendously as it encouradged real gameplay and avoided players getting bored and burned out of farming for that weapon or shield. Sadly Trion did the opposite. They deny players their chance for good loot and force them to settle for nothing but a handful of keys and scrip. Bad move!


that so f@#king true

UncleSpider77
07-11-2014, 12:55 PM
Geez Louise, get over it already !! It's not going to change ! All this whining and crying like babies is getting old. Maybe if you high EGO "I am a Gaming God and I have been here since day ONE, SO TRION OWES ME EVERYTHING" would have not been harrasing and insulting new players this would not have happened. The griefing of lower EGO players and acting like morons have finally bit you in the butts. Deal with it pumpkin!

Peace

CRIXDA a griefer? You obviously never met the dude.

Maida
07-11-2014, 01:35 PM
Geez Louise, get over it already !! It's not going to change ! All this whining and crying like babies is getting old. Maybe if you high EGO "I am a Gaming God and I have been here since day ONE, SO TRION OWES ME EVERYTHING" would have not been harrasing and insulting new players this would not have happened. The griefing of lower EGO players and acting like morons have finally bit you in the butts. Deal with it pumpkin!

Peace
We can turn your logic around on you. If you don't like the discussion don't participate. you're not changing anyone's view.
Second, there are many people on here who feel insulted that aren't "Gaming Gods" as you called them. I started in January and I don't harass anyone on line. I politely ask them to wait and try to find them after the event to explain the reasoning behind waiting. I'm not one of the hardcore people that insist on waiting until 50 people are in the event. I'll wait as long as people are steadily coming in. After 30 people enter and its been about 10 minutes I will break the locks. I find the disconnects get really bad with groups of 40 and the chances of success don't increase that much. So I fall somewhere in the middle between the "breakers vs Keepers" thing. Regardless the message has shown me that Trion doesn't play the game or understand the community. The result I won't spend any more money on the game and I will play it much less often. In a few months when some new games come out I may not play at all. I certainly won't play another Trion game, there are better studios out there that produce a better games.

hardy83
07-11-2014, 04:45 PM
Here's a funny quirk about people who play games.
They have different tastes, they have different play styles, they have different views.

Some may be "lock breakers". Some may be "lock keepers". Some may be lock and load to something else, and other may be like eh whatever.

This is most prevalent in MMOs. Or at least most noticeable, simply because in single player games or limited MMOs like Diablo or FPS games, you tend to play with like players.
In MMOs you play with everyone.

I'm going somewhere with this.

In game design you have two things you want to do. Make a game YOU want to make, and make a game that people will like to play.
You want to balance doing things the way you envision with making sure people actually like it and want to play it and give you money.
Sometimes you lean more on making a game that you alone want, sometimes you lean more towards just appealing to the players.

In MMOs, like I said earlier, there are a broad range of players and tastes you need to appeal to on top of designing a game you want.
It's not just one line to balance on. It's trying to balance on many thin lines going in different directions.
Not all of them will complain if you don't please them, but they still matter and are potential long term customers.

Which leads to the Warmaster.
To figure out what's wrong with Warmaster, we need to figure out what its original intent was vs the rest of the game.

Clearly the Warmaster was meant to be an endgame grind that was a strong challenge to many players. It was suppose to be an accomplishment to beat him with good rewards, and, aside from many bugs, when it launched. It was.
However, there lies the problem. It was designed from the start to be very hard. When compared to the rest of the game, it simply made zero sense in that world.
Defiance was designed to be fairly casual and easy. A fun romp to go shoot things and play with friends. At least that's how I saw it's original intent when it launched.
When Trick took over, he clearly wanted more goal oriented gameplay along with actual harder content.
Had Trick actually done this from the start (which he couldn't obviously, he wasn't in charge) it might have been fine. However Warmaster stood out like a sore thumb. It was a piece of game that was leaning towards what the game maker wanted to make and no where near the lines the players wanted.

We got a second part of that ideal in Arktech Revolution. Trick and the rest of the developers decided to make the rest of the game a bit more of a challenge, though due to the nature of MMOs, the overworld stuff was still easy.
The inclusion of expert co-ops changed things though.
NOW, the game was trying to appeal to more than one type of player. At first it was just casual PvE and some PvP. Now they added more "hardcore" content.
They started to walk on multiple lines, which is important in MMOs.
Now the Warmaster made a little more sense to the games world......Kind of.

You see, the real problem is not that Warmaster is hard. It's that it's implemented in a way that all players move to this one style of boss.
Where the co-ops and PvP modes walk different player type lines, the Warmaster walks one line for all players, and as many have seen. It doesn't work.
The boss it tuned too hard for the, most likely more numerous, casual players to ever beat, but the core players that could beat him are stuck mixed in with the casual players making them unable to beat him either.

The Warmaster was put into the game with an existing system it wasn't meant for.
Had it worked more like Co-ops with Arktech Revolution where there was two versions of him, it would be different.
It's like putting a bunch of people into an ice cream shop and telling them they can only have vanilla with peanuts and nothing else, even if they are allergic. lol

The Warmaster itself isn't broken per say, but the SYSTEM it's wrapped around is.
There NEEDS to be a way to separate the casual players and more "core" players apart for the WM, and have two different versions of him. One that's easy and ones that's the challenge the developer wants.

My opinion is that, if Trick and the others want to continue to add difficult content like the Warmaster, they desperately NEED to implement a "raid" and private instance system.
They also need to massively nerf the current Warmaster (loot included) so that it's no harder than any other overworld boss, but the private instance one remain the same difficulty or harder with better rewards.
So for example, a major arkbeak is called down, when the doors open, there should be one added to the front or back called "expert Warmaster" or something. That version can only be entered if you are in a "raid" and only that raid can enter their version of the instance.
Everyone else who goes through the normal entrances continue to face the current, but nerfed, Warmaster.

I don't fault Trick or the others for wanting to make a game they want to make and include harder content, but it can't be put in with a system that doesn't separate the different players and their different play styles or its doomed for forever fail.
That is what they are trying to do.

I know, a system like this should've been in it from the start. We all know the game was rushed, most likely due to the deadline to be running before the show starts and probably a little bit of mismanagement. Trick has done a lot (and the other developers) to make this game a good game and adding in their vision, but there are technical systems that need to be put in to make it all make sense.
Again, I don't consider the Warmaster, or Trion and Tricks efforts a "failure". I consider the system it was put in a "failure" for their vision. They need to fix the systems their game is in.
There needs to be private instances and raid parties.

Maybe Trick wants the whole game to be hard, but I don't think that's best for the game. I think balancing on those multiple lines as best as you can is the best way to go for MMOs.

That's my two cents.
Did that make sense. :P

Bonehead
07-11-2014, 04:50 PM
Let me just ask you this "have you been in a successful Warmaster the way Trick (Trion) wants you to do it?"

Tell you what, I'll answer for you, it's no.

You cannot just drop down and break the locks and kill the Warmaster (unless you've been extremely lucky and managed to solo him).

Trion (Trick) have released a fix that has deliberately set players against each other with this and it's not the new players fault.

They're going to come into a game where Trick (Trion) and ego are telling you to do something that you don't have a snowballs chance in hell of doing because the game isn't stable enough.

Yes we are the "Minority" and yes we maybe stupid enough to have stuck it out for all this time but that doesn't give Trick (Trion) the right to treat us with the contempt that they have. .

Check out this week's livestream for the epic warmaster fail.

CRIXDA
07-11-2014, 05:05 PM
Hardy,
Excellent post. Very well stated, nice job there. I felt it made plenty of sense and I see what you meant and you are right on a lot of key points.
My gears are ground on this one, though.
Gauging the Warmaster's difficulty and scaling him? That time is over.
Raid boss style? Nope.
How about queue? Please, don't even.
No way, here is what you morons get for your crying: timers.
The decision to start the Warmaster fight has been ripped from ALL OF OUR HANDS and that is what has pissed me off the most over the entire thing.
"Lock-breaker, go home. Lock-keeper, go fizzle. You are both now useless and not needed as the Warmaster is coming out at 9 a.m. when his shift starts due to Union Regulations whether you like it or not. Have an issue with that, toughguy? Go to the complaints window - oh yeah.....it is CLOSED on days that end with a 'Y' and besides, noone gives a runny crap anyway because you are going to play what we want you to play and then we will insult you. Deal with it."

CRIXDA
07-11-2014, 05:06 PM
Check out this week's livestream for the epic warmaster fail.

Awwwww how can that be, Bonez? It is being played PROPERLY now?

Bonehead
07-11-2014, 05:06 PM
Okay Crix, the runny crap part made me laugh.

drackiller
07-13-2014, 01:11 AM
Hehehe, oh Trick - it's not necessary to make a fake account to troll the players - you do it quite well using your Scapes-goats...LOL.

NO , i know OldDude i play with him on the PS3, meaning that i see him around and he is a very cool guy.
In my book he is a new player but not a noob and certainly not Trick in disguise. ;)

Cirran
07-13-2014, 06:29 AM
I guess here is as good a place as any of the posts about this topic. I have a question, since I am being told by much better players there is only one right way to play this game, what is that right way? I am a simply horribad first/third person shooter. Honestly I suck at shooting things with pixel bullets. Defiance is the first shooter I have picked up that I actually do well enough that I enjoy loading into the game and playing. I am not forced to PvP and there is a TON of things to do in the world of Defiance. I like that if I want to play by myself I can, if I want to join a group of strangers I can go do a siege, or an arc fall. I have done a lot of Major Arcfalls and have failed all but 2. Thing is I am having a good time doing so. For me I get good loot wether we succeed or fail. The two times we have succeeded was because a large group of 5000+ ego players were in there and they owned the WarMaster. The second time I beat one I paid for all four spikes and put in chat I was calling down the major arc fall before I did it. I will say it was a blast watching all my fellow arc hunters come racing from all points of the compass to get free loot. Honestly, I have a ton more fun in minor arcfalls than major arcfalls. I get more and better loot in minors than I do majors. I am guess that is because I can not put out the damage needed in majors. Anyways back to my question, since much better players insist I am playing the wrong way. What is the right way to play? I am always looking to have more fun, especially in a game I really enjoy already.

Cirran

DeadEye68
07-13-2014, 06:58 AM
I am guess that is because I can not put out the damage needed in majors. Anyways back to my question, since much better players insist I am playing the wrong way. What is the right way to play?

Cirran

You already answered your own question. It's not about a "better way", it's a matter of efficiency. Defeating the Warmaster is a DPS race. Focusing fire, using appropriate nanos, perks, stims and spikes to maximize your damage output are the most efficient way to ensure decent odds for success.


Thing is I am having a good time doing so. For me I get good loot wether we succeed or fail.

This is the main issue I have, success isn't rewarding enough, therefore fostering a "failure doesn't matter" attitude. As for your -self-perceived, mind you- lack of skill, practice makes perfect, or at least helps to improve. Vets weren't born perfect -well, some have innate skills-, we improved our game over near countless hours of play.

I can perfectly understand a "meh, it's only a game. Why should I bother about performance ? I just want to have fun" stance. But let me ask you a question : don't you think an event with infinitesimal chances for success ceases to be fun at some point ?

You may not have reached that point yet, but I can assure you it does.

You're not supposed to succeed every time you face the Warmaster, but you should at least do your best to make it happen as often as possible. That's what we're striving for.

As for the rift among vets and newcomers, responsibility lies on both sides of the fence. There's a fair share of black sheep to be found in both factions. Some attitudes just make it difficult to be civil. Only a couple of minutes ago I got PMed in game to "eff the jek off" a minor arkbreak I called down myself because I was making it too difficult for everyone, blissfully forgetting they were making it harder than necessary for me too. In the end, I both outscored and outkilled the combined 4 of them. I got even laughed at because I was the only one that got downed ... also forgetting that shooting anything turned me into a primary target due to my higher damage output.

drackiller
07-14-2014, 01:08 AM
You're not supposed to succeed every time you face the Warmaster, but you should at least do your best to make it happen as often as possible. That's what we're striving for.
.

If only they understood this particular point...