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View Full Version : I may have a solution to the wm issue [devs plz read this]



taco man 67
07-13-2014, 12:00 PM
tell me what u think

the devs think we are not fighting the warmaster as intended, and we simply want the best chance of beating him as often as possible.

how about this. instead of having the lock timer start when we jump down the hole. why not have it start when 24 people are in the warmaster chamber. then we have those 3 min to get more people into the fight if we so choose. people can still break the locks at any time . so it wont turn into the 1/2 hr wait that the devs aren't happy with, but we still have a chance at beating him.

im not even sure they can do this, but I wanted to try to come up with something both groups can be happy with.

my name is taco, and I sell mods. the cake may be a lie, but I am quite real

Nefarious
07-13-2014, 12:10 PM
That would work during the peak hours but what if a group of players do the WM and they end up having 22 ppl and are just shy of 24, and no one else seems to be coming. They are locked in on waiting for those 2 more just to start. That's the worse case scenario and wouldn't be an often one.

I think that the War Masters scaling needs to be looked into. So no matter what the group size may be the scaling can accommodate it so the players have some kind of chance of potentially killing it. Most the time having 2+ players in the War Master instance makes it a TL10 which needs a lot of players then to defeat.

Or better yet to make this boo boo go away Trion can make it so that Raid Parties could actually be assembled or at the very least make it so that players can port to Clan Mates. This way a clan officer can go into a WM instance and say in Clan Chat 'port to me' and boom, room is filled.

taco man 67
07-13-2014, 12:13 PM
That would work during the peak hours but what if a group of players do the WM and they end up having 22 ppl and are just shy of 24, and no one else seems to be coming. They are locked in on waiting for those 2 more just to start. That's the worse case scenario and wouldn't be an often one.

I think that the War Masters scaling needs to be looked into. So no matter what the group size may be the scaling can accommodate it so the players have some kind of chance of potentially killing it. Most the time having 2+ players in the War Master instance makes it a TL10 which needs a lot of players then to defeat.

Or better yet to make this boo boo go away Trion can make it so that Raid Parties could actually be assembled or at the very least make it so that players can port to Clan Mates. This way a clan officer can go into a WM instance and say in Clan Chat 'port to me'.as I said the locks can be broken at any time by the players. the 24 ppl would start the lock timer

Lucent
07-13-2014, 12:16 PM
This is a wonderful idea, actually! I love it!!!

Listen, Trion, listen!

It's a perfect balance: timer goes off when full, but the team can break the locks at any time. Perfect!

Deunan
07-13-2014, 12:28 PM
You're clearly not getting it. The Defiance Team has decided that the pace of the event should be one where you listen to what EGO is saying and start breaking locks immediately regardless of how many players are there. The locks were meant to be a "speed bump" (Trick's own words from the last Live Stream broadcast) to give the players already inside the instance time to setup their loadouts. In their minds the number of players that should be fighting the Warmaster isn't 24 or even 14. It's whatever number queues into the instance. In their minds they are throwing us a bone by not removing the group and go to leader functions to move to instances (which is disingenuous - as if they had the programming skill to change that anyway :rolleyes:).

This is all pretense to make sure that we don't alienate new players that will be coming in under the free-to-play model. If the locks break fast on their own there won't be any point in the verbal abuse that's been happening in some instances so in their minds the problem is solved. If they continue to operate the way they have been however they'll do a fine job of doing that on their own.

If you want to return to status quo here is what you need to do (credit to Darien for this tactic). Instead of spamming instructions not to break locks in the chamber, spam instructions not to kill the last Viscera in the room upstairs. Tell the players to jump up to the mezzanine instead. The lone Viscera won't be able to do much to you from there and you can start inviting players into the room as you used to do in the chamber. The last Viscera = the locks in the chamber now.

Alastar
07-13-2014, 12:31 PM
Good luck lol. Numerous well thought out and intelligent fixes have been provided for the war master by us. All were ignored. This is the "fix" we get and judging by their saying wm is no longer a priority we won't be seeing a real fix for quite some time.

taco man 67
07-13-2014, 12:39 PM
Good luck lol. Numerous well thought out and intelligent fixes have been provided for the war master by us. All were ignored. This is the "fix" we get and judging by their saying wm is no longer a priority we won't be seeing a real fix for quite some time.yes but have any of the fixes included what the devs want as well? im looking 4 something both groups can live with. not us or them, but we

Alastar
07-13-2014, 12:48 PM
I would say that many of the fixes provided by the community do indeed include the devs wants as well. At least what it appears the devs want (Trick anyway) judging by the letter and how he wants the event to go. Short of that I can't say for certain. I don't recall seeing any devs say how they want the fight to go. That aside pretty much all the bases have been covered. From different lock ideas to scaling reworks to an outright nerf of the wm and everything on between all with fine explanations behind them.

EDIT: keeping in line with the fast action fast rewards they're shooting for I would recommend a scaling rework combined with a nerf bat personally. Unless of course the devs want an exceptionally high failure rate to be couple with the fast action fast rewards.

Xkeltmonkey777X
07-13-2014, 12:59 PM
I'm usually in a group of around 30 or so when I do a war master and I still lose more than I win, so since they're adding a timer they need to make him easier to beat or no one will win. Just my opinion.

taco man 67
07-13-2014, 01:00 PM
I would say that many of the fixes provided by the community do indeed include the devs wants as well. At least what it appears the devs want (Trick anyway) judging by the letter and how he wants the event to go. Short of that I can't say for certain. I don't recall seeing any devs say how they want the fight to go. That aside pretty much all the bases have been covered. From different lock ideas to scaling reworks to an outright nerf of the wm and everything on between all with fine explanations behind them.

EDIT: keeping in line with the fast action fast rewards they're shooting for I would recommend a scaling rework combined with a nerf bat personally. Unless of course the devs want an exceptionally high failure rate to be couple with the fast action fast rewards.well this is a better response than they wont fix it and that's that. if we continue to back them into a corner without at least trying to help with the problem. than yes they probable will leave it the way it is. im not here to argue about it . im just trying to mend a bad situation.

Alastar
07-13-2014, 01:08 PM
Oh don't think I'm saying anything against you for still trying. Somebody has to keep trying. My only point is that its all been said before and this is what we got for it lol. Instead of fixing the glaring issues that were present or taking into account the many ideas that have been tossed around they lock it down into a 10 minute event and throw it on the back burner. More power to ya for holding out, just don't get your hopes up is all.

TremerChrist
07-13-2014, 01:39 PM
tell me what u think

the devs think we are not fighting the warmaster as intended, and we simply want the best chance of beating him as often as possible.

how about this. instead of having the lock timer start when we jump down the hole. why not have it start when 24 people are in the warmaster chamber. then we have those 3 min to get more people into the fight if we so choose. people can still break the locks at any time . so it wont turn into the 1/2 hr wait that the devs aren't happy with, but we still have a chance at beating him.

im not even sure they can do this, but I wanted to try to come up with something both groups can be happy with.

my name is taco, and I sell mods. the cake may be a lie, but I am quite real

You sir have spent to much time around the monkey! How dare you come in here with great ideas that make perfect sense. Its almost like you took time and thought about the situation. Shame on you! Shame, I say.

taco man 67
07-13-2014, 06:17 PM
You sir have spent to much time around the monkey! How dare you come in here with great ideas that make perfect sense. Its almost like you took time and thought about the situation. Shame on you! Shame, I say.a dingo took my baby

richardkrainium
07-13-2014, 06:32 PM
they will fix it just to satisfy the new players and all the new complaints about not being able to get the achievement. history has a way of repeating itself when ppl dont learn from thier mistakes the first time.

Bonehead
07-13-2014, 07:25 PM
Ummm I hate to tell you guys but the solution is in place right now. The timers are it.

taco man 67
07-14-2014, 02:12 PM
a dingo took my baby

dramaQkarri
07-14-2014, 02:24 PM
they will fix it just to satisfy the new players and all the new complaints about not being able to get the achievement. history has a way of repeating itself when ppl dont learn from thier mistakes the first time.

Good point - of note as well is that WM is part of DLC...so the F2P players can attend but not drop spikes. I don't see them all rushing off to buy the DLC to do it, and I doubt it will hold much interest for them even in this form (especially with all the WM-related DC's we get on PS3). It's pretty strange in fact, that they decided to do anything about this long-broken event at this time anyway, when now it appears that stability and connectivity appear to have delayed console F2P launch until [no end in signt].

At any rate, Taco Man, my condolences about your baby. I do appreciate you trying to give 'em a better solution!

Superman0X
07-14-2014, 05:26 PM
I see a lot of threads about this, none of which seem to show understanding of the problem. The problem is very simple: We (the players) are not going through this content as the developers had intended. This happened because the event was not coded in a way to make the intended play style, the most optimal play style. The culprit here is the re-use of existing code/mechanics for something that was slightly different. Let me try to explain.

They have stated that we should coordinate groups BEFORE calling down the Arkfall. This event is designed to be a raid equivalent, and as such it should have a raid style setup. The way to have driven this, would have been to have the timer for the WM to start the minute that the Arkfall occurred. This would have driven a 'faster is better' mentality.

The problem with this is that the waves are designed to go LONGER, the more successful you are. So, players would have been penalized for being more effective. As such they would have had to build a new wave mechanic (3 waves total, but much faster scaling).

The next problem is that they built this for 24 players, then added scaling (later) to allow for some chance with lower group sizes. Their scaling system isn't really very good, and players figured out how to overstack the event, getting 30, 40 or even 50 players into the event. This would require recoding of the scaling mechanic (even if only for this event) as well as a way to throttle the amount of players that can enter.

All of these issues have become apparent long after the content was live. They would have to go back, and do major reworking of the event to get all of this to happen. They just don't have the resources to do this, so they made a simple fix. They added a timer move things forward.

Now the best way to play this (still not the intended method) is to do it with a group of 8-10 players. The WM is much easier, and players can blaze right through him. Waiting for more players means that you miss the opportunity for the easy kill, and most likely don't get enough high EGO players to be able to pull off the hard kill.

If they do another event like this in future DLC, they have the opportunity to add the code to make this work correctly. However, I would not expect that soon, and even if they do have the opportunity, they may not be able to spare the resources.

taco man 67
07-14-2014, 05:33 PM
I see a lot of threads about this, none of which seem to show understanding of the problem. The problem is very simple: We (the players) are not going through this content as the developers had intended. This happened because the event was not coded in a way to make the intended play style, the most optimal play style. The culprit here is the re-use of existing code/mechanics for something that was slightly different. Let me try to explain.

They have stated that we should coordinate groups BEFORE calling down the Arkfall. This event is designed to be a raid equivalent, and as such it should have a raid style setup. The way to have driven this, would have been to have the timer for the WM to start the minute that the Arkfall occurred. This would have driven a 'faster is better' mentality.

The problem with this is that the waves are designed to go LONGER, the more successful you are. So, players would have been penalized for being more effective. As such they would have had to build a new wave mechanic (3 waves total, but much faster scaling).

The next problem is that they built this for 24 players, then added scaling (later) to allow for some chance with lower group sizes. Their scaling system isn't really very good, and players figured out how to overstack the event, getting 30, 40 or even 50 players into the event. This would require recoding of the scaling mechanic (even if only for this event) as well as a way to throttle the amount of players that can enter.

All of these issues have become apparent long after the content was live. They would have to go back, and do major reworking of the event to get all of this to happen. They just don't have the resources to do this, so they made a simple fix. They added a timer move things forward.

Now the best way to play this (still not the intended method) is to do it with a group of 8-10 players. The WM is much easier, and players can blaze right through him. Waiting for more players means that you miss the opportunity for the easy kill, and most likely don't get enough high EGO players to be able to pull off the hard kill.

If they do another event like this in future DLC, they have the opportunity to add the code to make this work correctly. However, I would not expect that soon, and even if they do have the opportunity, they may not be able to spare the resources.ummmm yeah what he said

taco man 67
07-15-2014, 12:50 PM
doom!!!!!!!!!!!!