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View Full Version : New rep weapons, wow can any one say OP



duction
07-17-2014, 10:51 PM
Good lord have you been in pvp with these new guns!? They are mental lol.

What are your opinions?

Griffix8
07-17-2014, 10:57 PM
They're probably going to be nerfed.

Piers
07-17-2014, 11:28 PM
Like how they nerfed Infectors, or the Zagger, or the Big Boomer, or the Million speed bonus stacks with all of the above, or cloak combined with all of the above?

SirServed
07-17-2014, 11:42 PM
Like how they nerfed Infectors, or the Zagger, or the Big Boomer, or the Million speed bonus stacks with all of the above, or cloak combined with all of the above?
Infector users tend to get killed before their DoTs kill their targets. The Zagger doesn't kill anyone with a good shield instantly. The Big Boomer requires you to know how to hit targets at different ranges to work properly. Charging up and locking onto a target from max range with a Detonator from Cloak requires 0 skill, just cowardice. People that use Cloak aren't good at PvP, period.

Durva360
07-17-2014, 11:43 PM
Honestly the smg feels weak compared to some of the other smgs I have used

duction
07-18-2014, 12:12 AM
Have you used the deto yet? Holy crap that thing is lethal too. You get it from the coit tower vendor box.

crazyged
07-18-2014, 12:44 AM
http://www.crazyfool.co.za/gifs/strong-spider.gif

Shakk
07-18-2014, 12:54 AM
This is exactly what i was afraid of.

When cloak finally is getting a fix something else comes along and breaks the pvp.
One step forward eight steps back, Trion-style

Zhedda
07-18-2014, 12:55 AM
Then why don't they just make it so you can't lock onto people in PVP. Voilla, problem solved, without ruining someone's fun in PVE.

Bonehead
07-18-2014, 01:03 AM
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/fred_rogers_zps5ef56c15.jpg

duction
07-18-2014, 01:05 AM
If you get a lock on with it then the other guy it's 99% death rate for them lol. Can you imagine the cloak nerf with this lols.

Chump Norris
07-18-2014, 01:12 AM
Please balance this game and remove PvP.

The only one of these weapons I have so far is the SMG and it is not OP. I could use my Pulser/Tachmag/VBI SMG and do more damage and score higher.

PiccolaRivolta
07-18-2014, 01:39 AM
Totally broken weapons make the PvP even more unfun and broken. I guess they forgot they had a PvP mode in their game...? I stopped playing PvP now, the amount of Bloodhound and Gang buster players is absurd. They combine it with cloak for even more cheap winning.

Not sure about the Crimefighter but Gang Buster and Bloodhound,
1) can lock on at 100 meters even when the player gets out of the view.
2) keep the lock on players who became cloaked while the enemy was locking on you.
3) Gang Buster, when you lock on and the enemy gets cover behind something, the grenade will PASS THROUGH any object and stick to the target resulting in death

duction
07-18-2014, 01:46 AM
Totally broken weapons make the PvP even more unfun and broken. I guess they forgot they had a PvP mode in their game...? I stopped playing PvP now, the amount of Bloodhound and Gang buster players is absurd. They combine it with cloak for even more cheap winning.

Not sure about the Crimefighter but Gang Buster and Bloodhound,
1) can lock on at 100 meters even when the player gets out of the view.
2) keep the lock on players who became cloaked while the enemy was locking on you.
3) Gang Buster, when you lock on and the enemy gets cover behind something, the grenade will PASS THROUGH any object and stick to the target resulting in death

I'm glad someone who actually plays pvp and has seen first hand what is happening lol and has commented.

Chocolatelover67
07-18-2014, 01:48 AM
What is that gun that shakes the ground if you are nearby? Gangbuster or such I think.

Where do you get that?

PiccolaRivolta
07-18-2014, 02:00 AM
What is that gun that shakes the ground if you are nearby? Gangbuster or such I think.

Where do you get that?
Bloodhound, Defiant Few weapon. Found in Coit Tower - San Francisco.

Forgot to mention that, when you get shot it seems like you are getting bombarded by an AC130.

reciprocate
07-18-2014, 03:50 AM
Just a bit of RNG silliness. I bought the normal 80 rep for the Bloodhound SMG and was expecting a normal uncommon quality green. Instead got a purple/epic one. But it's a pretty fun weapon overall.

I do expect these to get nerfed nonetheless. I don't PvP, but they seem way too good.

Psyclown
07-18-2014, 04:54 AM
I still haven't decided which one I would get first, so I haven't tried any of them at all for the moment.

Well, I met 3 or 4 guys with that "smg-rocket-launchy-style" in pvp so far, and it seemed that I could easily escape or quickly find a cover (may be they were too confident in their cloaking ability and/or in the lock-on thing and actually attacked me from too far ?) and so I was able to retaliate when they were reloading. Of course, it also happened that I found myslef totally defenceless when facing 2 of them at the same time.
I didn't really bother to inspect them afterwards to see if those were OJ ones or modded in anyway. So maybe, if there's a possiblity to roll or mod a velocity bonus, that would change my mind about them.

So far, my feeling is that the weapon is not so OP... but it might just get OP when used by a guy who's actually smart pvp-wise. Much like infectors, if I can say, they don't require skill to use them, but if you want to survive more than 1 encounter, there's more than just emptying the mag of your canker and hoping the enemy doesn't aim correctly.

Drewbud
07-18-2014, 05:06 AM
Please balance this game and remove PvP.



I love you for this quote. I do believe it hits the fix dead on!

Kanah
07-18-2014, 05:11 AM
So how would a presumably easy-to-get fully-modded Defiant Few weapon match up against a hard-to-get Paradise or Chimera weapon? Resists to fire and electricity... now what will I do with all my cores?

Overtkill21
07-18-2014, 05:17 AM
Please balance this game and remove PvP.


This ^^^^

If they nerf the Bloodhound it will be 100% useless for PvE, y'know the REAL game.

It already does piddling damage for an "explosive". PvP does not deserve to dictate what the weapons in this game do.

This has been proven many times over the past year.

If they want to change something, remove the garbage PvP.

N3gativeCr33p
07-18-2014, 05:21 AM
Please balance this game and remove PvP.

Never touched the game's PvP mode, but I like this suggestion!

NeuroticHitman
07-18-2014, 05:31 AM
Can't wait to see the "who's who" of PVP trolls CRUTCHING along with this new piece :)

drackiller
07-18-2014, 05:37 AM
Can't wait to see the "who's who" of PVP trolls CRUTCHING along with this new piece :)

Can`t say that most of us will really care, i like this game but i will not stand for much more of the bad decisions.
I have my moneys worth like you Americans like to say...no problem in moving away...aka Des....

Roez
07-18-2014, 06:06 AM
Watched Lirik Play Destiny yesterday, and once before. Not a fan really. Beyond balance issues, you basically only need point in a general direction. The one, real skill element is being able to jump out of the way if something shoots your direction. PvP didn't look special in any way either. With the low aim threshold it's over simplified.

No idea why people are all excited about the game.

drackiller
07-18-2014, 06:28 AM
No idea why people are all excited about the game.

I guess that is because you`ve not played it yet. LOL

N3gativeCr33p
07-18-2014, 06:31 AM
No idea why people are all excited about the game.

Three words:

Better grenade mechanics :)

Roez
07-18-2014, 06:47 AM
I guess that is because you`ve not played it yet. LOL

And won't play it. I don't do consoles.

edit: I have both the major ones (well, technically the wife does). We just generally prefer PC now for various reasons.

Ruinne
07-18-2014, 07:46 AM
The Zagger doesn't kill anyone with a good shield instantly.

There's a glorious caught-with-your-pants-down moment when someone sneaks up behind you and lets fly with their Zagger and you turn around instead of dying.

bigguy
07-18-2014, 08:07 AM
I wont say remove pvp altogether because i can see that some people enjoy it and im all for choice. However i have to agree with others that there have been too many horrible nerfs in the name of pvp.

The bloodhound is definitly NOT OP i tried to do a expert coop with it last night and had to change weapons because it wasnt getting the job done like my sumi. This game needs the bloodhound and new interesting things to keep it going , I know a few people who would not be here now if not for this gun.

My suggestion for pvp would be to scale peoples health up a little to prevent one shotting from any weapon.

JadedSinn
07-18-2014, 08:22 AM
The bloodhound is definitly NOT OP i tried to do a expert coop with it last night and had to change weapons because it wasnt getting the job done like my sumi. This game needs the bloodhound and new interesting things to keep it going , I know a few people who would not be here now if not for this gun.

.

dido and agreed . did an exspert coop with it and had to resrot to my oj flare gun after emptying only helf a clip from my purple moded bloodhound.

if anything becuse the gun is " rockit lock on type " weapon it needs a boost in damage. insted of a meger 1k per shot i should be seeing 4-5 k it also wouldnt hurt if u could use SMG mods on it like the exstended mag. i know that the rockits have an exstended mag but its only a 2-5 shot clip mod. where asd the smg can give i think up to 15 or more added shots to a clip. and the gun only has about 23 in it.

also it would be nice if it shot something other then acid type rounds. atleast it looks like acid. ... the green splash off the shot. and i havent come acrost a fire nano clip to change out into mine yet or any other nano clip so.. ya.

this gun could do with alot of work.

as for the other 2 havent gotten them yet. its a little slow going seeing asd u can only get 10 rep per day from the dailies for them after u beat the weekely

Zhedda
07-18-2014, 08:51 AM
My suggestion for pvp would be to scale peoples health up a little to prevent one shotting from any weapon.

IMO, what they need is a second damage stat on all the weapons. One that does not scale, that is used strictly for PVP. For example, a VOT Pulser does x damage per pellet in PVP (not accounting for nano), and that's it. Can be ego 50, 500, or 5000. Then do the same thing with the shields and everything else. If something is OP in PVP, nerf that number. If that isn't enough, nerf it some more. Leave the PVE side of it alone.

However, it makes too much sense so I won't hold my breath for that to ever happen.

adrokier
07-18-2014, 09:04 AM
My Point of View!

To all PVP Loosers ....

Stay in PVE ... ;) The real good Players love PVP on PS3 ... nerf the Weapons?? Until now I can stand those "new" Weapons ... sure I see newbies tumbling en masse ...

On PS3 EU all "real" good Players take Part in PVP ... and we r only playing that Game cos of getting new weird Weapons for PVP ... most of the good Player are in PVP, not every Day - but they r ...

Accept that PVP is a big Part of the Game for many Gamers ... If u dnt like stay out ... but many Gamers love PVP ...

And for all newbies when entering PVP u will keep tumbling for weeks until its getting better ....

Cant understand that ppl like to be shoot from Raiders or killed by an Warmonkey but are raged out when they die in PVP ... LOL ... Human Enemies are harder to get .. u just need to train .. its more fun^^

PVP Loosers dnt ruin our PVP !!! Seems that mainly PVP Haters are on Forum???

Liquidacid
07-18-2014, 09:09 AM
PVP Loosers dnt ruin our PVP !!!

with how PVP is in the game I'm not sure it's even humanly possible to ruin it ... well anymore than it already is

N3gativeCr33p
07-18-2014, 09:22 AM
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/alaizabelwaldorf/loser.gif

adrokier
07-18-2014, 09:25 AM
with how PVP is in the game I'm not sure it's even humanly possible to ruin it ... well anymore than it already is

Sure, the rest of the Game is perfect ?? ... its with PVP like with the rest of Game, certain Problems, but be sure I m a PVP Bastard since 1Year ... we play it and we love it, the same other ppl play buggy PVE ... where is the Problem ???

But we have all our Opinion, just it seems that some ppl argue like PVE is 100% okay ? Dnt understand why PVP is so emotional ... I think thats what PVP shud be real emotional real action, and it is...

ironcladtrash
07-18-2014, 09:29 AM
I used the lock on SMG in PVP and ended up switching back to my tach mag. It was fun but didn't do enough damage and was too slow.

The lock on detonator sounds cheap as hell though but I haven't had a chance to use it or see it in action from some one else yet.

ironcladtrash
07-18-2014, 09:38 AM
However i have to agree with others that there have been too many horrible nerfs in the name of pvp.
Just to stick up for PVP a little here. There was a lot of nerfs because of PVE too. The shotgun mags, and immunizer where for PVP.
Surge bolter only got nerfed because it over ran PVE, I still think it should be nerfed further. Grenades, and the Saw where due to PVE too.

ConcreteSnake
07-18-2014, 09:47 AM
dido and agreed . did an exspert coop with it and had to resrot to my oj flare gun after emptying only helf a clip from my purple moded bloodhound.

if anything becuse the gun is " rockit lock on type " weapon it needs a boost in damage. insted of a meger 1k per shot i should be seeing 4-5 k it also wouldnt hurt if u could use SMG mods on it like the exstended mag. i know that the rockits have an exstended mag but its only a 2-5 shot clip mod. where asd the smg can give i think up to 15 or more added shots to a clip. and the gun only has about 23 in it.

also it would be nice if it shot something other then acid type rounds. atleast it looks like acid. ... the green splash off the shot. and i havent come acrost a fire nano clip to change out into mine yet or any other nano clip so.. ya.

this gun could do with alot of work.

as for the other 2 havent gotten them yet. its a little slow going seeing asd u can only get 10 rep per day from the dailies for them after u beat the weekely

they actually removed rocket +mag mods along time ago and there are no converters for rockets either, your only mag mod option on the bloodhound is reload speed.

adrokier
07-18-2014, 09:50 AM
Just to stick up for PVP a little here. There was a lot of nerfs because of PVE too. The shotgun mags, and immunizer where for PVP.
Surge bolter only got nerfed because it over ran PVE, I still think it should be nerfed further. Grenades, and the Saw where due to PVE too.

Sooo right Dude :) you r a veteran 2 m8 ... the nerf of saw ...

Deunan
07-18-2014, 09:57 AM
...Grenades...where due to PVE too.No one except Trick really knows why grenades were overhauled. The Surge Bolter damage was modified because of what it was doing to diversity of weapon loadouts at Volge Sieges. but the hip firing change was technically a correction to something that was never intended.

ironcladtrash
07-18-2014, 10:14 AM
No one except Trick really knows why grenades were overhauled. The Surge Bolter damage was modified because of what it was doing to diversity of weapon loadouts at Volge Sieges. but the hip firing change was technically a correction to something that was never intended.
I see Grenades getting blamed on PvP a lot. It may not have been PVE either but no one who played PVP ever wanted that.

The surge bolter was always horrible. PVP was overrun by that gun but it never got addressed until it was a problem in PVE. It was funny to me because I remember seeing them post that were going to up the damage to the semi auto snipers to balance them out. I though to myself there was no way in hell they would up the damage on that thing. I should have known better. I am glad they took away the hip fire and added a lot to the charge time but it's still a one shot kill gun that is almost impossible to miss with.

The other consequence to that was that there is now almost no reason to use a bolt action sniper.

The other nerf everyone hated was the damage reduction stacking. That still makes me mad. All anyone wanted was them to fix the cheat and they nerfed stacking. After they did it the cheaters were still in the game with the same impossible damage reduction. That made so many people quit since the cheaters never got banned.

charmXalor
07-18-2014, 10:21 AM
Shut up shut up shut up!!!! God just shut it with the op crap, this is why they need these great guns and we end up with pea shooters! The more you complain the more they'll nerf the guns. These guns are new and already players start whining.

Do you really want kiwi's long beak of the law poking in here?

Quebra Regra
07-18-2014, 10:35 AM
Like how they nerfed Infectors, or the Zagger, or the Big Boomer, or the Million speed bonus stacks with all of the above, or cloak combined with all of the above?

well said my friend, well said. :)

CM Kiwibird
07-18-2014, 11:15 AM
Do you really want kiwi's long beak of the law poking in here?

:( It's average sized, not that long.

Kershoc
07-18-2014, 11:22 AM
:( It's average sized, not that long.

Great now the thread has derailed into a discussion of the size of Kiwi's Pecker. :rolleyes: :p

JadedSinn
07-18-2014, 11:23 AM
:( It's average sized, not that long.

and its cute :P

back on topic. i tested out the bloodhound in PVP . ya if i wanted a kill it took a full clip and a helf. i restroted to my alternet weapons after finding that even with lock on. it was not all that good for PVP as soon as i get the chance ill test the other guns . just as soon as i get the rep for them...

Deunan
07-18-2014, 11:28 AM
Great now the thread has derailed into a discussion of the size of Kiwi's Pecker. :rolleyes: :pUmmm she doesn't have a... oh never mind.... :rolleyes:

charmXalor
07-18-2014, 11:38 AM
:( It's average sized, not that long.

Nope it's pretty long, so kiwi do you eat kiwies?

bigguy
07-18-2014, 12:00 PM
Nothing is OP , the terms OP and Nerf are just dum when it comes to this game. Everything in this game is futuristic and different , New and exciting and should be. This game doesnt need balance , Its a waste of time and energy to even contemplate nerfing anything if so why was it created in the first place. Why dont we all just use the same one gun that does the same damage and have no choices and no fun.

This thread is derailed and should be shut down.

Xervez
07-18-2014, 12:03 PM
Just came back from another shadow war with a couple people using the Defiant Few SMG, and the Defiant Few Detonator.

As usual with cloak, you don't pop up on radar when you shoot it so you can shoot the thing and be invisible while it homes in on you. I was getting torn up from the detonator version and you didn't even see a homing icon coming at you, straight outta nowhere boom then dead.

The SMG is really annoying too since that thing has really long range, the damage is not bad for what it can do and when your getting hit with it all the explosions going off near you it literally fills up and shakes your screen blinding you and effecting your chance to fight back. On open ground its pretty much kill the guy with the Homing SMG fast or it's your shtako.

3 MAJOR PROBLEMS I see here are

1) These new weapons totally negate the previous weapons by a mile, for example there is no reason to use a AR / LMG / Pistol / Homing RL's especially now since they added these new homing weapons.

2) There is no cover or very little cover by capture points so these Homing weapons have fair game of blasting the area with impunity.

3) This will drive more people into cloak since you don't show up on radar when firing these things unless it's the SMG version since you have to put a few homing bullets into a person.

How it is right now, it doesn't look good for Defiance PvP. These weapons were not needed, they should've learned from the immunzier. A Homing weapon that caused so many problems including breaking Freight Yard due to the massive amount of bugs spawning which was admitted by them (TRION) on why Freight Yard was broken for awhile in the beginning.

Now it will be the massive amount of explosions happening that will cause a breakdown somewhere.

Trion keeps shooting themselves in the foot for putting these silly weapons in. Their idea for weapon balance pretty much went out the window here since once everyone starts using these weapons, homing galore is gonna be terrible.

duction
07-18-2014, 12:14 PM
thanks for the support on the topic, cant you wait untill they nerf the cloak and then there is NO escape [/sarcasm]

somthing will have to get done im affraid lol

adrokier
07-18-2014, 12:31 PM
Cool Xervez,

good posting pointing out the major probs with this "new" Detonator u r right I only play now cloaked and with my mean FRC Big Boomer and think bout getting that same mean new Boomer ... but still playing and we do hunt those "new" boomer Gamers ;)

cmpowell
07-18-2014, 12:34 PM
I don't think the bloodhound is that great damage wise then again mine is syphon. I think it's a fun weapon, but find I can only really use it at major event's(arkfalls/incursions) without dying. btw i did mention mines syphon so this may be part of my problem

Xervez
07-18-2014, 12:49 PM
I don't think the bloodhound is that great damage wise then again mine is syphon. I think it's a fun weapon, but find I can only really use it at major event's(arkfalls/incursions) without dying. btw i did mention mines syphon so this may be part of my problem

Well I was hit with the electricity version and it brought back flashbacks when the immunzier could get bugged out and have a nano effect, when it had the electricity nano effect that would be crazy againest snipers since it would proc off the DoT and the needles hitting you for a constant nano effect / bug DoT.

Most people say the damage isn't all that on those weapons but look at it like this... those homing bullets have more range then LMG's / AR's / Regular SMG's / no falloff and are extremely quick compared to the HOMING RL's projectiles which are made completely obsolete now also those weapons need to be scope aimed or hip-fired aimed to be effective while these new Homing Weapons just dumbed down aiming.

Too many pluses on a weapon, and no downsides equals a weapon that should've never been added.

Bonehead
07-18-2014, 01:21 PM
thanks for the support on the topic, cant you wait untill they nerf the cloak and then there is NO escape [/sarcasm]

somthing will have to get done im affraid lol

Don't count your nerfs before they're nerfed.

charmXalor
07-18-2014, 01:31 PM
Well I was hit with the electricity version and it brought back flashbacks when the immunzier could get bugged out and have a nano effect, when it had the electricity nano effect that would be crazy againest snipers since it would proc off the DoT and the needles hitting you for a constant nano effect / bug DoT.

Most people say the damage isn't all that on those weapons but look at it like this... those homing bullets have more range then LMG's / AR's / Regular SMG's / no falloff and are extremely quick compared to the HOMING RL's projectiles which are made completely obsolete now also those weapons need to be scope aimed or hip-fired aimed to be effective while these new Homing Weapons just dumbed down aiming.

Too many pluses on a weapon, and no downsides equals a weapon that should've never been added.

They need to keep this weapon and not remove it, god I swear some of you defiance fanatics need to just play the game and stop analyzing & criticizing every little detail. It's not a game breaker, that's the WMs job.

duction
07-18-2014, 01:55 PM
let me capture somthing real quick and upload it and i 100% gaurentee it gets nerf'd

Xervez
07-18-2014, 02:19 PM
They need to keep this weapon and not remove it, god I swear some of you defiance fanatics need to just play the game and stop analyzing & criticizing every little detail. It's not a game breaker, that's the WMs job.

So I guess we are labeled Defiance Fanatics for actually wanting variety / balance in a third person shooter (MMO-TPS)?

Wait till someone uses it in front of you and your fighting something upclose, due to all the green splash damage / effects going on you can't even see what your shooting at, it's literally blinding (aka worse then the volge guns). That's from a PvE point of view...

There's nothing wrong with adding new weapons but the correct way of doing it is you need to base the weapons ability on what you have previously and not completely break the wheel, these new Defiant Few weapons make majority of the older weapons obsolete which pretty much throws majority of the variety of weapons out the window.

Also if you need homing bullets to hit a target, you might not want to play a game where aiming was preferable but nowadays they just dumbed it down for everyone.

Nefarious
07-18-2014, 02:27 PM
Stating to the OP its not all new Rep weapons. The Crime Fighter is fine. And the Gangbuster is good as is too. Its the Blood Hound. Keep in mind this is a new gun also, and a lot of ppl are going to be using it. Couple that many ppl are using it with it being a lock on homing weapon would make it hard to catch a break from.


Most people say the damage isn't all that on those weapons but look at it like this... those homing bullets have more range then LMG's / AR's / Regular SMG's / no falloff and are extremely quick compared to the HOMING RL's projectiles which are made completely obsolete now also those weapons need to be scope aimed or hip-fired aimed to be effective while these new Homing Weapons just dumbed down aiming.

Too many pluses on a weapon, and no downsides equals a weapon that should've never been added.

This. The damage on the Blood Hound could be considered low end in the DMG department. The the plus side is that they benefit from being explosives. They can bypass NPC armor, not plates but the protective armored enemies. Plus no falloff damage. Plus being a lock on homing weapon. So there is enough for the PvE side of things for it to have its uses. No doubt.

Theres a few tweaks that can be done to help balance it in PvP better though. Fire rate. Projection velocity speeds. Lock on range. Slight changes to any one of these things are not going to change the use of it for PvE.

I don't think these weapons are overpowered. We know what Over Powered is in Defiance. But the Blood Hound is not balanced. Anybody can see that it hits to fast for what its worth and does not fit its own description of "Fires projectiles at a low rate of fire." There is nothing low rate about it.

charmXalor
07-18-2014, 02:49 PM
So I guess we are labeled Defiance Fanatics for actually wanting variety / balance in a third person shooter (MMO-TPS)?

Wait till someone uses it in front of you and your fighting something upclose, due to all the green splash damage / effects going on you can't even see what your shooting at, it's literally blinding (aka worse then the volge guns). That's from a PvE point of view...

There's nothing wrong with adding new weapons but the correct way of doing it is you need to base the weapons ability on what you have previously and not completely break the wheel, these new Defiant Few weapons make majority of the older weapons obsolete which pretty much throws majority of the variety of weapons out the window.

Also if you need homing bullets to hit a target, you might not want to play a game where aiming was preferable but nowadays they just dumbed it down for everyone.

You sir are a fanatic because you over analyzed the weapon then cried wolf because you say the gun should be removed. I suppose you think they should scrap every other weapon that's been exploited too huh?

I have fought in PVP against it and guess what? I still killed those guys ten times over, just like I did when it was surge bolters. It doesn't matter what weapon a player uses, what matters it the players skill. And in any case these weapons don't make any other gun obsolete because players will almost always choose their favorite gun. I but you my FRC Particle Repeater would crush that gun....oh wait it has! (:

Zhedda
07-18-2014, 02:53 PM
I don't think these weapons are overpowered. We know what Over Powered is in Defiance. But the Blood Hound is not balanced. Anybody can see that it hits to fast for what its worth and does not fit its own description of "Fires projectiles at a low rate of fire." There is nothing low rate about it.

Compared to 15, 18, and 25, 8.3 is a pretty low rate of fire.

charmXalor
07-18-2014, 02:57 PM
Stating to the OP its not all new Rep weapons. The Crime Fighter is fine. And the Gangbuster is good as is too. Its the Blood Hound. Keep in mind this is a new gun also, and a lot of ppl are going to be using it. Couple that many ppl are using it with it being a lock on homing weapon would make it hard to catch a break from.



This. The damage on the Blood Hound could be considered low end in the DMG department. The the plus side is that they benefit from being explosives. They can bypass NPC armor, not plates but the protective armored enemies. Plus no falloff damage. Plus being a lock on homing weapon. So there is enough for the PvE side of things for it to have its uses. No doubt.

Theres a few tweaks that can be done to help balance it in PvP better though. Fire rate. Projection velocity speeds. Lock on range. Slight changes to any one of these things are not going to change the use of it for PvE.

I don't think these weapons are overpowered. We know what Over Powered is in Defiance. But the Blood Hound is not balanced. Anybody can see that it hits to fast for what its worth and does not fit its own description of "Fires projectiles at a low rate of fire." There is nothing low rate about it.

Not bad, but the thing about that is tweaking in defiance always tend to go overboard, so slight subtle tweak for them means nerfing the rate of fire down to the volge battle rifles. Plus I'd expect the Defiant Few's weapons to have a slight advantage since they're supposed to be bad*** and all that. I mean as long as it doesn't have Tachmag pulser rate of fire, we'll be fine.

Nefarious
07-18-2014, 03:16 PM
Compared to 15, 18, and 25, 8.3 is a pretty low rate of fire.

Taking into consideration that its a lock on weapon also.


Not bad, but the thing about that is tweaking in defiance always tend to go overboard, so slight subtle tweak for them means nerfing the rate of fire down to the volge battle rifles. Plus I'd expect the Defiant Few's weapons to have a slight advantage since they're supposed to be bad*** and all that. I mean as long as it doesn't have Tachmag pulser rate of fire, we'll be fine.

Im not trying to dig into it to find overpowerd faults or anything. Im just stating the obvious here. I can state all the down sides to it also.

The Blood Hounds blast radius is as low as it can get. Along with a player using Blast Shield -45 reduced range in which explosives hit you makes the mark for a Blood Hound to hit other players needing to be dead on. The flashy explosions might as well not even be there for them because of it. And its not a precise weapon to be scoring headshot crits with either.

But sitting back shooting repeated locked on shots can be a problem in PvP none the less. Lock on homing weapons need to take into consideration that homing in on targets is pretty big in Shooter games for the fact that it takes away the need to aim. There has to be a good deal of balance to even that out.

I don't expect the Bloodhound to get nerfed to that of a Volge Battle rifle firing speeds. I don't want that. But at the same time could the projectiles be slowed down a bit? Yeah, a little bit. Could the rate of fire be toned down a tad? Sure. Could the lock on time be a smidgen slower? Yeah it could. The over all package for the gun doesn't feel as balanced as it should considering what it dishes out.

Big Jack Shepard
07-18-2014, 03:17 PM
After taking a blue bloodhound through an expert map, I'm not ready to say that its OP.

I will say it is incredibly annoying to use. All the shake, noise and colors in cqc is just a mess.

Zombie Stark
07-18-2014, 03:40 PM
I just experienced the Bloodhound in PvP and it doesn't feel OP. I'm able to roll and/or find cover before a full clip is able to kill me. The gangbuster though.. Geez, even trying to get to cover to avoid the homing is difficult. The projectiles are quick whether they're headed straight for you or swerve to catch you around the corner well you're running for cover. Three of those puppies stick to me and I'm a goner. The only way I was able to get the upper hand was using decoy to teleport before the gangbusters detonation.

I personally don't want these guns to be nerfed.. In fact at this point I don't want any weapon to be nerfed because PvP. It's obvious the Devs create/release these weapons without any thought of how they may effect PvP, so it's just not worth it. When you look on the PvE side of things none of these weapons are OP, and I'm afraid if they get Trion nerfed they won't even be worth bothering with anymore.

This is coming from someone who hardly ever plays PvP. Just my two cents.

Xervez
07-18-2014, 03:44 PM
You sir are a fanatic because you over analyzed the weapon then cried wolf because you say the gun should be removed. I suppose you think they should scrap every other weapon that's been exploited too huh?

I have fought in PVP against it and guess what? I still killed those guys ten times over, just like I did when it was surge bolters. It doesn't matter what weapon a player uses, what matters it the players skill. And in any case these weapons don't make any other gun obsolete because players will almost always choose their favorite gun. I but you my FRC Particle Repeater would crush that gun....oh wait it has! (:

Actually here is some facts for you, all the vets from PC NA know who I am, and quite a lot of them agree with me.

I called the semi auto buff was going to make it too powerful if they upped the damage, and not do what we asked for. We
PvP players who originally used it before any buffs wanted only more ammo not more damage.

I also called them adding armor plates, way before the addition of it.

I also called Zaggers would be too powerful even on the test server when I and few others on PTS tested the DLC content back in the days.

Also I was one of the advocates that mentioned that nano's should actually do things to your targets but the way they implemented it was different then how we imagined it.

etc.. etc.. the list goes on

You might want to check my older posts because I tend to get these trends right...

Facts must elude you, so read a little bit before you attack someone...

First off on the adjustment side

FRC Saw was a PvE nerf due to PvE players posting on how it was superior to every weapon back then.

Surge Bolter was another slight PvE nerf due to PvE players posting on how it was superior to every weapon back then.

The way the Immunzier was back in the days was breaking Freight Yard, straight from the Devs mouth, they admitted why it broke it because of the insane bug spawn from the automatic fire rate and so many people using it.

Also the shotgun ammo nerf you will probably mention that but that was reverted back, but now we can achieve 20+ mags sluggers which is another crazy gun because it got over buffed when no one used it back in the days.

The 0.0 detention grenades were instant kills in PvP with the change it added the limited number of grenades but the frequency you can toss them was faster and that you actually have a chance to dodge it made it survivable is a positive note. We the PvP players also never asked for this but they changed it.

Damage Resistance stacking, the way it was it made PvE players invincible and made their game way to easy so they toned it down a bit. We asked for them to fix a bug that would occur with certain stacking but we got this, whose fault is that?

What other major adjustments can you give that PvP players caused that ruined the weapons / game that we have now?

Clearly they don't listen to the PvP players, yet they listen to PvE players like yourself which have no common sense, ex. back in the days you were able to get into 64v64 Shadow Wars frequently but when Casti DLC hit with the surge bolters was added bang majority of the PvP players left because that weapon was ridculous, barely took any aim etc.. etc..

The amount of PvP players this game had back in the days was a huge chunk of people, if they actually took the time to balance the weapons instead of adding silly weapons with ridculous abilities then yea we might've had a more flourishing game.

Now if everyone starts using it and the massive amount of explosions happening breaks the server, is it your problem now?

Also forgot to mention that Homing Detonator balls can go through walls.

duction
07-18-2014, 04:22 PM
not OP say the trolls? the bloodhound isnt much better either before you suggest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkxvNuZfXF4

these things fire through walls too

Deunan
07-18-2014, 04:22 PM
We PvP players who originally used it before any buffs wanted only more ammo not more damage.That's not PvP specific. More ammo was universally desired and the increased damage did nothing to address it. I bet most of us would be willing to trade the damage buff for an increased ammo pool without hesitation.


Damage Resistance stacking, the way it was it made PvE players invincible and made their game way to easy so they toned it down a bit. We asked for them to fix a bug that would occur with certain stacking but we got this, whose fault is that?Damage stacking only made players highly resistant to damage for small windows of time lasting seconds. For PvP that may equate to invincibility because the tactics tend to focus on high burst damage with brief combat between a few players at a time but in the wave driven form of combat that is basic to PvE there was nothing imbalanced about it. It was simply a different way of playing that was removed from the game until the new effects of the syphon nano-effects came with 1.5. The net effect is the same. If a player chose to stack on damage reduction perks he or she sacrificed DPS oriented perks as a tradeoff. The same is true now if a player uses a syphon oriented loadout.

It was a completely unnecessary change for PvE and was driven solely by PvP considerations, notwithstanding that it was not what PvP players were asking for. PvP players were asking Trion to patch the exploit mechanics and punish the PvP players using them. Instead they got this along with the claim from Trion that "clever use of game mechanics" didn't constitute exploiting because the devs were completely clueless about what was actually going on in PvP with invulnerability glitching.


The amount of PvP players this game had back in the days was a huge chunk of people, if they actually took the time to balance the weapons instead of adding silly weapons with ridculous abilities then yea we might've had a more flourishing game.There's really not much credibility to this statement. The overwhelming majority of content and pursuits in this game are PvE not PvP and in a game like this PvP players have always been the minority. The only reasons the game even had as many players that did PvP content that it did was because some wanted the pursuit points notwithstanding that they didn't like playing PvP content in general and PvP content in this game in particular, and because some players tend to gravitate towards PvP when there is a lack of endgame content.

There's a lot to fix in PvP even not taking loadout imbalances into consideration. I'd love it if they fixed vehicle scaling so that driving around in Cerberus wasn't equivalent to riding in a coffin on wheels, and turret damage actually scaled properly so I could finish my PvP pursuits, but I don't want that if it means it's going to divert resources away from addressing PvE issues which affect the entire player community.

CM Kiwibird
07-18-2014, 04:36 PM
http://i.imgur.com/P5Mw68H.gif

We have actually fixed the bug causing the detonator to shoot through walls, but it will not be released until our Silicon Valley patch. We also have some balance adjustments that will be coming soon for that one!

Shooting through walls is definitely not where we wanted to go with that, even if it is kinda cool. :o

duction
07-18-2014, 04:37 PM
http://i.imgur.com/P5Mw68H.gif

We have actually fixed the bug causing the detonator to shoot through walls, but it will not be released until our Silicon Valley patch. We also have some balance adjustments that will be coming soon for that one!

Shooting through walls is definitely not where we wanted to go with that, even if it is kinda cool. :o

ALL of the new guns need re balanceing, not just the one in my video!

CM Kiwibird
07-18-2014, 04:39 PM
ALL of the new guns

:o That's just the one I had news on, don't worry, we'll take a look at the others.

Lillith Valerian
07-18-2014, 05:01 PM
:( It's average sized, not that long.

It's not in reference to your nose. It's a play on an old phrase, 'long arm of the law'.

CM Kiwibird
07-18-2014, 05:05 PM
It's not in reference to your nose. It's a play on an old phrase, 'long arm of the law'.

Haha, I know, I was just trying to make a joke. :o Sorry.

Xervez
07-18-2014, 05:06 PM
That's not PvP specific. More ammo was universally desired and the increased damage did nothing to address it. I bet most of us would be willing to trade the damage buff for an increased ammo pool without hesitation.

Actually the first person that mentioned more ammo for the Semi-Auto Sniper Rifles specifically was Cavadus. He may be the first one on the forums that actually saw the potential of the weapon when everyone was using Bolt Action sniper rifles back then. That post was specifically under the PvP section since I remember being hit with it back then and it was way weaker back then but still very usable.


Damage stacking only made players highly resistant to damage for small windows of time lasting seconds. For PvP that may equate to invincibility because the tactics tend to focus on high burst damage with brief combat between a few players at a time but in the wave driven form of combat that is basic to PvE there was nothing imbalanced about it. It was simply a different way of playing that was removed from the game until the new effects of the syphon nano-effects came with 1.5. The net effect is the same. If a player chose to stack on damage reduction perks he or she sacrificed DPS oriented perks as a tradeoff. The same is true now if a player uses a syphon oriented loadout.

It was a completely unnecessary change for PvE and was driven solely by PvP considerations, notwithstanding that it was not what PvP players were asking for. PvP players were asking Trion to patch the exploit mechanics and punish the PvP players using them. Instead they got this along with the claim from Trion that "clever use of game mechanics" didn't constitute exploiting because the devs were completely clueless about what was actually going on in PvP with invulnerability glitching.

So basically your telling me the game wasn't easy back then when Damage Resistance was stacking in PvE and PvP? Back then when Damage Resistance stacked you could take a VoT Nano Fragger, (Zagger nowadays) to the back and still have enough shields / health to fight back nowadays if you get hit, unless the person got bad aim your in trouble.

Your statement goes both ways, probably another reason they took out stacking to a point was that it made the game way to easy especially when they added the Armor spikes those provided a lot of Damage Resistance in PvE and PvP but in PvP we knew how imbalanced and stupid they were since they would put your DR over the top to become invincible in both settings for a limited time.


There's really not much credibility to this statement. The overwhelming majority of content and pursuits in this game are PvE not PvP and in a game like this PvP players have always been the minority. The only reasons the game even had as many players that did PvP content that it did was because some wanted the pursuit points notwithstanding that they didn't like playing PvP content in general and PvP content in this game in particular, and because some players tend to gravitate towards PvP when there is a lack of endgame content.

Not sure if your agreeing with me, but how is that statement not credible? You can rarely see any PvP 64v64 matches nowadays and we are ftp right now right... with a new influx of players needing the pursuits.

Back then CORE had a monopoly on PvP PC NA and anyone back then here knows this. A lot of people back in the days left when the the Casti DLC hit because of the weapon imbalances it brought, and if you were a veteran player in PvP from back then it was actually really fun.

How can you tell me it's not credible if you barely see any of those big matches anymore, From what TRION says is that we have a good influx of new players that joined yet you see empty PvP shadow wars? It's just not fun anymore when there are huge imbalances / less variety nowadays.

PvP back then was fun and a lot of people liked it besides the point you needed to do it to get max ego which was 5k also since a lot of it wasn't based on rarity of weapon(dmg) etc... which is what PvE players complained about their weapons not having more umph on rarity having fun with a white weapon was doable and having Oranges didn't really matter and it wasn't just the fact that everyone needed the pursuits too.

Waterfront / Observatory and eventually Freight Yard when it came back was always popping, nowadays since they added the tier system unless you join someone in a lower tier you can never get into a match.

You might want to do the math, back in the days a lot people did PvP now it's pretty much a ghost town, wonder where they went wrong?

duction
07-18-2014, 05:11 PM
its the tier system that broke it all, and they keep saying that there isnt one... and its going to get looked into.. #yearight

Deunan
07-18-2014, 05:14 PM
How can you tell me it's not credible if you barely see any of those big matches anymore, From what TRION says is that we have a good influx of new players that joined yet you see empty PvP shadows wars?I'm not sure you understood what I was saying but PvP players represent a minority of players in this game. They always have. Arsenic_Touch, one of your own clan officers used to point this out whenever the subject came up in the forums. No amount of PvP popularity was going to cause this game to flourish because PvP simply doesn't appeal to many PvE players no matter how well it' s designed. It's the concept, not the execution of content. The game has lost far more players to PvE issues than it has to PvP issues.

Xervez
07-18-2014, 05:46 PM
I'm not sure you understood what I was saying but PvP players represent a minority of players in this game. They always have. Arsenic_Touch, one of your own clan officers used to point this out whenever the subject came up in the forums. No amount of PvP popularity was going to cause this game to flourish because PvP simply doesn't appeal to many PvE players no matter how well it' s designed. It's the concept, not the execution of content. The game has lost far more players to PvE issues than it has to PvP issues.

You just answered the ago old question about Defiance, there is no endgame content besides going into PvP. Maybe if they actually tried to work it in game better it might've made a difference but who knows I can't argue with that, but a lot of people did find it good, when it wasn't about flashy high end weapons, imbalanced ego abilities, those PvP instances were popping up a lot back then.

I don't disagree with you but this PvP minority overall predicted trends about weapons effecting the game negatively by good margins in PvE and PvP.

Holy Bahamut3
07-18-2014, 06:14 PM
ALL of the new guns need re balanceing, not just the one in my video!

In this we have a disagreement, but its cool. Personally speaking I think in PVE the Bloodhound how do you say "works as intended" it only becomes a "nuisance" when you put it in the context of PvP. But the same can be said about a load of weapons in PvP. I won't comment on the other two as I haven't yet tested them myself.

ironcladtrash
07-18-2014, 06:17 PM
I don't disagree with you but this PvP minority overall predicted trends about weapons effecting the game negatively by good margins in PvE and PvP.

This is the one thing that stuck out to me too when I first got into PVP. I always repeat myself that you gain a whole new understanding of weapon balance when being on the receiving end.

When I started I hated PVP and only did it for the pursuits. I used to love reading all the posts from the PVP players about balance and play style that wasn't just "Oh my god you killed me nerf it". I started to like it and those posts where really helpful and informative.

Unfortunately to people not familiar with the game like the devs and new players the good balance discussions got lost in the noise.

Bonehead
07-18-2014, 06:21 PM
Haha, I know, I was just trying to make a joke. :o Sorry.

I got it right away...

Holy Bahamut3
07-18-2014, 06:25 PM
I got it right away...

Most of us did...

http://imgur.com/YeygTVg

Chump Norris
07-18-2014, 06:44 PM
:o That's just the one I had news on, don't worry, we'll take a look at the others.

I just hope they arent ruined to appease the few people who PvP. The OP part of his video was people using an exploit and shooting through walls.

DEATHBRINGER210
07-18-2014, 07:19 PM
nerf them all

Holy Bahamut3
07-18-2014, 07:21 PM
There are nerfers and balancers. MORE COMMUNITY DIVISION. LOL

konstantinov
07-18-2014, 07:27 PM
I challenge you all to a duel with my spoon made from a balloon because everything else got nerfed.

UncleSpider77
07-18-2014, 07:58 PM
My Point of View!

To all PVP Loosers ....

Stay in PVE ... ;) The real good Players love PVP on PS3 ... nerf the Weapons?? Until now I can stand those "new" Weapons ... sure I see newbies tumbling en masse ...

On PS3 EU all "real" good Players take Part in PVP ... and we r only playing that Game cos of getting new weird Weapons for PVP ... most of the good Player are in PVP, not every Day - but they r ...

Accept that PVP is a big Part of the Game for many Gamers ... If u dnt like stay out ... but many Gamers love PVP ...

And for all newbies when entering PVP u will keep tumbling for weeks until its getting better ....

Cant understand that ppl like to be shoot from Raiders or killed by an Warmonkey but are raged out when they die in PVP ... LOL ... Human Enemies are harder to get .. u just need to train .. its more fun^^

PVP Loosers dnt ruin our PVP !!! Seems that mainly PVP Haters are on Forum???

Being the best at PVP in Defiance is like being the world's tallest midget.
Pretty sure hardcore PVP players are playing something else.

DEATHBRINGER210
07-18-2014, 08:08 PM
not OP say the trolls? the bloodhound isnt much better either before you suggest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkxvNuZfXF4

these things fire through walls too
spawn kill valley

ConcreteSnake
07-18-2014, 10:11 PM
I like how we finally get new guns that are unique and they don't even make it 1 week without all the PvP players crying Nerf and it actually happens. I've tried all of the weapons and they are ok in PvE but not great or OP and now they're all going to get a Nerf. May as well Nerf the rep vendor dmg boost out of all faction weapons, take the overcharge effect off wildcats, cut the crit mult on wolfhounds in half, add a 3 second animation to all sawed off, remove cloak from the game, and use rubber bands to kill each other in PvP while the majority that PvE gets slaughtered by skitterlings. Thanks guys you're the best.

ConcreteSnake
07-18-2014, 10:12 PM
Being the best at PVP in Defiance is like being the world's tallest midget.
Pretty sure hardcore PVP players are playing something else.

or winning the gold at the special Olympics

Deunan
07-18-2014, 10:28 PM
I like how we finally get new guns that are unique and they don't even make it 1 week without all the PvP players crying Nerf and it actually happens.Are you honestly calling fixing the detonator so that its grenades don't magically travel through objects a nerf?

Really?

http://cdn.niketalk.com/0/0f/0f4f52ce_snl_really.jpeg

nathanpbutler
07-18-2014, 10:32 PM
or winning the gold at the special Olympics

Or being valedictorian of summer school.

ConcreteSnake
07-18-2014, 11:01 PM
Are you honestly calling fixing the detonator so that its grenades don't magically travel through objects a nerf?

Really?

http://cdn.niketalk.com/0/0f/0f4f52ce_snl_really.jpeg

didn't know they traveled through walls, that definitely needs a fix, but all these people saying the weapons are OP, which they are not and then kiwi basically saying that a rebalance is now in the works means they will be nerfed to dust when they already suck....besides the fly through walls part

Deunan
07-19-2014, 12:01 AM
....and then kiwi basically saying that a rebalance is now in the works...All Kiwibird said was that they were looking at them. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. They looked at the Canker and did nothing and it's an auto homing weapon too. They looked at the 0 reload Zagger and did nothing. They looked at the Big Boomer and made it more powerful. They nerfed the Surge Bolter because of PvE not PvP and again, only after they had made it more powerful. Over a year has gone by with Cloak providing perfect invisibility in PvP and they don't think it's important enough to warrant a client side patch on its own so nothing is going to be done about it until the end of the summer even though they actually have a fix ready to go live. They don't care about the Slugger imbalance in PvP. Let's face it, PvP is very low on their priority list so there's no reason to jump to unwarranted conclusions at this point.

duction
07-19-2014, 12:26 AM
didn't know they traveled through walls, that definitely needs a fix, but all these people saying the weapons are OP, which they are not and then kiwi basically saying that a rebalance is now in the works means they will be nerfed to dust when they already suck....besides the fly through walls part

They all need the lock on feature removing..

A lock on guided big boomer and a smg that locks on and fires explosives which you can't escape.. All pvp is in open areas... Cloak is getting nerf'd lol.

cmpowell
07-19-2014, 01:58 AM
Well I was hit with the electricity version and it brought back flashbacks when the immunzier could get bugged out and have a nano effect, when it had the electricity nano effect that would be crazy againest snipers since it would proc off the DoT and the needles hitting you for a constant nano effect / bug DoT.

Most people say the damage isn't all that on those weapons but look at it like this... those homing bullets have more range then LMG's / AR's / Regular SMG's / no falloff and are extremely quick compared to the HOMING RL's projectiles which are made completely obsolete now also those weapons need to be scope aimed or hip-fired aimed to be effective while these new Homing Weapons just dumbed down aiming.

Too many pluses on a weapon, and no downsides equals a weapon that should've never been added.

they are faster than the RL counterpart, but the dmg is less and they do have falloff. I can see how an elec immunizer could suck, but what's the difference in getting hit by this or the GRL other than rate of fire? can't you do the same against it or can you defend against a GRL and if not why not do away with it too. The smack talking in PvP is more of an issue than any weapon

Xervez
07-19-2014, 05:07 AM
they are faster than the RL counterpart, but the dmg is less and they do have falloff. I can see how an elec immunizer could suck, but what's the difference in getting hit by this or the GRL other than rate of fire? can't you do the same against it or can you defend against a GRL and if not why not do away with it too. The smack talking in PvP is more of an issue than any weapon

As of right now the new homing Detonator version doesn't have homing balls that register when they are coming at you like the Homing SMG / The Guided Rocket Launcher / The Breaker Cannon / The Cereberus Passenger missile Launcher, they just instantly go on you and can be detonated, so there is no way to defend yourself against it.

On top of that they can go through walls / Mountains / pretty much anything right now, if you can't see that being a problem then it's hopeless trying to even reason with you.

Chump Norris
07-19-2014, 06:18 AM
I am only a Bloodhound owner and it is not OP (can out DMG/Score with almost any other SMG in PvE).

If it has to be nerfed I say it should focus on the range at which you can lock on. If we want to be somewhat realistic in a very unrealistic game the SMG version should have less of a lock on range than say the Homing RL.

Now the whole shooting through walls thing is a glitch and it should be fixed asap.
_____

I wish the thread title had been "New rep weapons, wow can any one say OP in PvP" it would have made it easier for me to swallow at first.

DEATHBRINGER210
07-19-2014, 08:10 AM
nerf them all

bigguy
07-19-2014, 08:15 AM
I love how someone who disagrees with the OP is instantly a troll. The fact that someone will complain about something until they get thier way because of pvp and not care about anyone else or whether they enjoy something outside of pvp is incredibly selfish. I can understand the detonator going through mountains needing to be fixed but the fact that you cannot do a expert coop with the bloodhound without dying repeatedly shows it is not OP.

PVP loadouts should be restricted to a limited number of weapons , no dlc weapons and no faction vendor weapons becuase they seem to be the ones people complain about.

TRION please do not nerf the bloodhound just because a limited number of people are worried about thier kill death ratio in pvp.

Overtkill21
07-19-2014, 09:08 AM
I love how someone who disagrees with the OP is instantly a troll. The fact that someone will complain about something until they get thier way because of pvp and not care about anyone else or whether they enjoy something outside of pvp is incredibly selfish. I can understand the detonator going through mountains needing to be fixed but the fact that you cannot do a expert coop with the bloodhound without dying repeatedly shows it is not OP.

PVP loadouts should be restricted to a limited number of weapons , no dlc weapons and no faction vendor weapons becuase they seem to be the ones people complain about.

TRION please do not nerf the bloodhound just because a limited number of people are worried about thier kill death ratio in pvp.

PvP Players don't want balance - they want better K/D ratios than the other guy. Anything that allows the other guy to best them is OP and should be nerfed.

If PvP players wanted balance we'd see them calling for 4 Standard Loadouts with Set Weapons and EGO Powers.

OP, any of you PvPers - got any of those suggestions?

N3gativeCr33p
07-19-2014, 09:29 AM
If PvP players wanted balance we'd see them calling for 4 Standard Loadouts with Set Weapons and EGO Powers.

Amen.

I've been saying this for the longest time, and I haven't even scratched the PvP mode in this game.

(And BTW... like your new sig. Hilarious!)

drackiller
07-19-2014, 10:11 AM
I hate PVP, and i`ve been playing that in ANOTHER GAME.

Xervez
07-19-2014, 10:15 AM
PvP Players don't want balance - they want better K/D ratios than the other guy. Anything that allows the other guy to best them is OP and should be nerfed.

If PvP players wanted balance we'd see them calling for 4 Standard Loadouts with Set Weapons and EGO Powers.

OP, any of you PvPers - got any of those suggestions?

We did ask for something like that AWHILE back, but then you PvE players complained about weapons being too weak etc etc.. and then they buffed all the weapons across the board plus the damage buff you get from weapon rarity was added on top of that and this is what we have now.

Weapons AWHILE back were pretty much standard damage across the board and there wasn't many benefits / differences from a standard white - orange variety.

PvE players such as yourself cried out, then they (TRION) listened but didn't take into account balance wise how it would effect everything down the line.

For 4,521 posts your not to knowledgeable on what we the PvP minorty was asking for....

Terrato137
07-19-2014, 11:06 AM
The problem with buffing/nerfing weapons in this game is that it affects both pvp and pve simultaneously. There needs to be certain formulas, buffers, hell idk, SOMETHING, that kick in and act based on whether a player is fighting a hellbug/99er/etc, or another player, like in most MMOs.

Overtkill21
07-19-2014, 11:07 AM
Amen.

(And BTW... like your new sig. Hilarious!)

Thanks! Mods didn't like my other one so I decided to make a new one more in line with the "rules".

Overtkill21
07-19-2014, 11:10 AM
We did ask for something like that AWHILE back, but then you PvE players complained about weapons being too weak etc etc.. and then they buffed all the weapons across the board plus the damage buff you get from weapon rarity was added on top of that and this is what we have now.

Weapons AWHILE back were pretty much standard damage across the board and there wasn't many benefits / differences from a standard white - orange variety.

PvE players such as yourself cried out, then they (TRION) listened but didn't take into account balance wise how it would effect everything down the line.

For 4,521 posts your not to knowledgeable on what we the PvP minorty was asking for....

LOL at this response. If you had asked for what I was suggesting then PvE players would have no problem with it as it would neither negatively nor positively affect any weapon stat.

Weapons, a while back were NOT standard across the board. The only thing that changed is now EGO and rarity determine Damage whereas it didn't before.

Your post is really full of something....it's not win...what could it be? Maybe Bolded Stuff...we can abbreviate that for you.

adrokier
07-19-2014, 11:18 AM
Playing PVP when all cloaked und using Zaggers and those new Dets ... is not nice at all ... makes no fun at all ... even the ppl telling that who using those weapons, they argue like that "I m using those Weapons cos all using them" ... but when buying Mods Boxes I never QM Shotty Mods ... I can t pay 80Euros for QM Shotty Mod ! I bought T4 Mod Boxes to hope to get the QM Mods ... but only 1 QM Shotty Mod, I know random, paying 80 Euros for random crap!! Makes no fun 2 ...

Frustrated bout that !

Need QM Shooty Mods
Need Good Mastery
Need ArkForge
Means P2W for me - if u want QM Shotty Mods will cost u 200Euros to get??? And u need at least one purple QM Recoil Mod and one purple Scope Mod to make the Zagger playable in PVP

Ruinne
07-19-2014, 11:38 AM
PvP Players don't want balance - they want better K/D ratios than the other guy. Anything that allows the other guy to best them is OP and should be nerfed.

If PvP players wanted balance we'd see them calling for 4 Standard Loadouts with Set Weapons and EGO Powers.

OP, any of you PvPers - got any of those suggestions?

So you don't PvP but you hate PvP, if I follow you.

PvP is completely and utterly balanced in Defiance and will always be. Everyone has access to every single item and build that everyone else has, the closest thing to a problem is the lottery that is gear in Defiance.

The real problem is non-PvPers who feel they need to or want to PvP but feel the game needs to change so they can win using their individual style. This is a problem that is shared PvE, people want their particular chosen set up to be the winner and everyone else needs to be nerfed.

There will always be a best way to do every single thing in any RPG styled game that has ever been made or will ever be made. If you don't want to do what it takes to be the best at the job you are doing, don't whine about being second best. Games like defiance don't even have classes, balance is perfect no matter how imbalanced the gear is, CHANGE GEAR.

Overtkill21
07-19-2014, 11:44 AM
So you don't PvP but you hate PvP, if I follow you.

PvP is completely and utterly balanced in Defiance and will always be. Everyone has access to every single item and build that everyone else has, the closest thing to a problem is the lottery that is gear in Defiance.

The real problem is non-PvPers who feel they need to or want to PvP but feel the game needs to change so they can win using their individual style. This is a problem that is shared PvE, people want their particular chosen set up to be the winner and everyone else needs to be nerfed.

There will always be a best way to do every single thing in any RPG styled game that has ever been made or will ever be made. If you don't want to do what it takes to be the best at the job you are doing, don't whine about being second best. Games like defiance don't even have classes, balance is perfect no matter how imbalanced the gear is, CHANGE GEAR.

So let me get this straight, your argument is that PvP is balanced? LOL Good one.

adrokier
07-19-2014, 11:55 AM
These "New" Detonators combined with Zaggers makes PVP awful... the NEW Detonators can shoot thru Walls, around the Corner, aim u when u r cloaked, the Zagger with oj Falloff will kill you one shoot in range like an SMG. Both together really bad for playin PVP

ironcladtrash
07-19-2014, 11:57 AM
PvP Players don't want balance - they want better K/D ratios than the other guy. Anything that allows the other guy to best them is OP and should be nerfed.

If PvP players wanted balance we'd see them calling for 4 Standard Loadouts with Set Weapons and EGO Powers.

OP, any of you PvPers - got any of those suggestions?

What made PVP appealing to me was the fact you could bring your PVE weapons into PVP. They used to advertise that a lot. It's what set it apart from all the COD clones. I am sure you have heard that before though. Destiny is advertising the same thing now.

They should have been to be able to balance the weapons out for both PVP and PVE but have shown they can't. It's unfortunate that instead it's just another thing that splits the community.

Xervez
07-19-2014, 11:59 AM
LOL at this response. If you had asked for what I was suggesting then PvE players would have no problem with it as it would neither negatively nor positively affect any weapon stat.

Weapons, a while back were NOT standard across the board. The only thing that changed is now EGO and rarity determine Damage whereas it didn't before.

Your post is really full of something....it's not win...what could it be? Maybe Bolded Stuff...we can abbreviate that for you.

Ignorance is bliss in your case, the damage numbers were not that much of a difference back then and using white standard weapon was actually viable since damage wasn't insanely high and this was without any kind of scaling happening, nowadays it is not because majority of PvP is based on extremely high damage numbers.

To be exact Ego Scaling damage goes way up especially at the 5k-5.5k mark, and the Rarity of the weapon determine damage... I don't know about you but those are pretty hefty damage buffs.

The amount of posts you made is pretty laughable since your totally clueless on the exact changes of the game's history.

The post doesn't have to win just needs to have facts, which you are totally clueless about.

Let's step back a sec, let me ask you this PvE players..

What weapon / overall changes have they did in the name of PvP that truly effected your PvE gameplay?

Here's some food for thought...

Shotgun Mag adjustment - that was reverted back because PvE cried so they reverted it back. (+20 sluggers nowadays)

Rocket Mag Nerf - honestly i don't remember the reason.

FRC SAW adjustment - PvE players were bragging about it on forums, and that there was no reason to use anything else. So it got adjusted which in turn offered some variety to the other LMG's. No one complained about it in PvP, that was on the PvE only players such as yourself.

Immunzier adjustment - they admitted it was breaking Freight Yard due to massive bug spawning rapidly due to automatic fire, who knows what else it was affecting.

Surge Bolter adjustment - PvE players yet again bragging about it being the ultimate gun and destroying Sieges single handedly, there was alot of out roar in PvP but it wasn't the reason why they changed it, PvE was the reason admitted by TRICK himself.

The Big Grenade Change - that was never suggested for PvP or PvE, who knows why they did it.

The Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle damage Buff - PvP players never suggested a damage buff, we suggested and wanted more ammo for that weapon yet on the PvE side they cried out it was too weak for PvE so you know they ended up buffing it with more damage.

Changes in difficulty for Expert CO-OP's - Majority of the PvP players bragged about how easy they were, but PvE players such as yourself cried about how hard they were next thing you know they downgraded the difficulty of them by a lot!

See a trend here.. they don't listen to the minority they listen to who bragged / cried the loudest... ding ding ding PvE players...

Anything else...

Ruinne
07-19-2014, 04:38 PM
So let me get this straight, your argument is that PvP is balanced? LOL Good one.

As it continues to this day not a single intelligent person has issued a single intelligent statement that contained "LOL".

Overtkill21
07-19-2014, 04:47 PM
As it continues to this day not a single intelligent person has issued a single intelligent statement that contained "LOL".

Hilarious. This is certainly the kind of retort I'd expect from someone defending balance in this game's PvP offering.

konstantinov
07-19-2014, 04:51 PM
As it continues to this day not a single intelligent person has issued a single intelligent statement that contained "LOL".

Oh contraire mon frere. LOL

Overtkill21
07-19-2014, 05:13 PM
Geez, that is a long bunch of garbage. So let's tackle it piece of BS by piece of BS.


Ignorance is bliss in your case, the damage numbers were not that much of a difference back then and using white standard weapon was actually viable since damage wasn't insanely high and this was without any kind of scaling happening, nowadays it is not because majority of PvP is based on extremely high damage numbers.

To be exact Ego Scaling damage goes way up especially at the 5k-5.5k mark, and the Rarity of the weapon determine damage... I don't know about you but those are pretty hefty damage buffs.

You attempting to explain how weapons used to be and are now to me is absolutely laughable. Weapons weren't standard as you seem to want to imply - merely all weapons of a specific type did identical base damage. Why you'd harp on this I have absolutely no idea.


The amount of posts you made is pretty laughable since your totally clueless on the exact changes of the game's history.

You then go on to mention my post count, again. It shows I've been here on the forums more than you and if you look back at my posts you'll see I have no need for someone like you explaining anything to me.


The post doesn't have to win just needs to have facts, which you are totally clueless about.

What facts exactly am I clueless on? You seem to be missing those entirely, let’s take a look shall we?


Let's step back a sec, let me ask you this PvE players..

What weapon / overall changes have they did in the name of PvP that truly effected your PvE gameplay?

Here's some food for thought...

Shotgun Mag adjustment - that was reverted back because PvE cried so they reverted it back. (+20 sluggers nowadays)

The Shotgun mag adjustment was done because a x1.05 Mag buff on a weapon with 7 rounds made no sense. It was more of a fix. Get it?


Rocket Mag Nerf - honestly i don't remember the reason.

Rocket Mag Nerf? What? You just make this one up?



FRC SAW adjustment - PvE players were bragging about it on forums, and that there was no reason to use anything else. So it got adjusted which in turn offered some variety to the other LMG's. No one complained about it in PvP, that was on the PvE only players such as yourself.

FRC SAW nerf was asked for by no one. It was a nerf driven by a graph of weapon usage and was initiated by the devs. Go check. Maybe if you had more activity on the forum you'd know some of this stuff, but let's continue, shall we?


Immunzier adjustment - they admitted it was breaking Freight Yard due to massive bug spawning rapidly due to automatic fire, who knows what else it was affecting.

Immunizer - what's your point here? That PvP drove the nerfing of this weapon? Because that would be correct, and if so I'm shocked you have a fact nestled in this drivel.


Surge Bolter adjustment - PvE players yet again bragging about it being the ultimate gun and destroying Sieges single handedly, there was alot of out roar in PvP but it wasn't the reason why they changed it, PvE was the reason admitted by TRICK himself.

Surge Bolter - this was a FIX, get it straight you surge bolter fan - the gun was outperforming other weapons due to missing weapon mechanics. Advocates of it's fix are your typical advocates of game fixes - but again you'd know that if you were spent some time on these forums.


The Big Grenade Change - that was never suggested for PvP or PvE, who knows why they did it.

Why bring up the grenade change? I guarantee I know much more on this topic than you. I was here on the forums posting again and again explaining why the change shouldn’t happen and then again why it should be reverted. Where were you? Oh, you must save your posts for special occasions like this Feast of B.S. here.


The Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle damage Buff - PvP players never suggested a damage buff, we suggested and wanted more ammo for that weapon yet on the PvE side they cried out it was too weak for PvE so you know they ended up buffing it with more damage.

Semi Auto Sniper Rifle DMG Buff?? What? Again with the making things up, tsk, tsk.


Changes in difficulty for Expert CO-OP's - Majority of the PvP players bragged about how easy they were, but PvE players such as yourself cried about how hard they were next thing you know they downgraded the difficulty of them by a lot!

Expert CoOp Difficulty changed and I remember no one crying out for this to happen. Please enlighten me - go search the forum and find me the PvE player crying out for this.



See a trend here.. they don't listen to the minority they listen to who bragged / cried the loudest... ding ding ding PvE players...

Anything else...

So you think you have facts? You think you can tell me what’s what on this game? Give me a frickin' break.

Nefarious
07-19-2014, 05:58 PM
My face when reading this thread.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9UDVyUzJ1g

Xervez
07-19-2014, 06:12 PM
Geez, that is a long bunch of garbage. So let's tackle it piece of BS by piece of BS.

You attempting to explain how weapons used to be and are now to me is absolutely laughable. Weapons weren't standard as you seem to want to imply - merely all weapons of a specific type did identical base damage. Why you'd harp on this I have absolutely no idea.


Exactly what is harping? I'm mentioning it, to enlighten you since the thread evolved into asking about a standard for PvP weapons / loadouts.

Back in the days that was as close to a standard there could be, white weapons did not have any major differences from Oranges concerning the damage side of it, and were viable nowadays they are not.

Explaining the evolution of the game's weapons seems to surpass you by a mile.



You then go on to mention my post count, again. It shows I've been here on the forums more than you and if you look back at my posts you'll see I have no need for someone like you explaining anything to me.

What facts exactly am I clueless on? You seem to be missing those entirely, let’s take a look shall we?


Facts (Old Patch Notes)

Rocket Launcher Mag
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?38419-Patch-1.010-Sharks-in-Winter-Solstice-Final-Patch-Notes

Shotgun Changes
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?73279-Patch-1.020-Buckshot-(Stay-on-Target)

Semi Auto Sniper Rifle changes
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?143565-Patch-1.204-(hotfix)-Patch-Notes&highlight=Patch+Notes+Semi+Auto+Sniper+Rifles



The Shotgun mag adjustment was done because a x1.05 Mag buff on a weapon with 7 rounds made no sense. It was more of a fix. Get it?


You must not go back very far, the adjustment I was referring to was a PvP shotgun ammo adjustment, so they had a lower ammo capacity for shotguns, no mag buffs, it was their weakness back in the days with a low ammo count, compared to the other weapons. This was very early days

For ex. most pump shotguns back in the days did not have more then 10 shells / slugs before a reload and that was a lot of ammo at the time for those weapons.

● Significant Shotgun Tuning
• Shotguns are being tuned to bring them in line with the other weapons and personalities we want to obtain with each type of shotgun.
• Mag Size Changes: We have made changes to the mag size of all bonus size mods and rarity bonuses. This was largely due to shotguns getting a more shots per magazine then intended.
1. Rarity Bonuses that increased Mag Size have been decreased.
2. Clip Mods that increased Mag Size have been decreased.



Rocket Mag Nerf? What? You just make this one up?


Nope this was when you could get +mags for Rocket Launchers, very brief time it was out there though.

WEAPON MODS
● Removed magazine size mods for rocket launchers.



FRC SAW nerf was asked for by no one. It was a nerf driven by a graph of weapon usage and was initiated by the devs. Go check. Maybe if you had more activity on the forum you'd know some of this stuff, but let's continue, shall we?


It wasn't asked by PvE or PvP players but was certainly bragged about on the PvE side, which caught their radar...



Immunizer - what's your point here? That PvP drove the nerfing of this weapon? Because that would be correct, and if so I'm shocked you have a fact nestled in this drivel.


What am I pointing at? It's called displaying facts that you don't seem to understand... I'm showing that even though they actually changed the weapon there was another reason besides a PvP players crying about it.

You do remember Freight Yard being broken for a couple of months right? oh wait your too ignorant to actually tell the truth and make up your own facts.... they TRION admitted that the weapon was breaking Freight Yard so they made some changes to remedy the issue.

Read the original question how has PvP weapon adjustments truly effect how PvE gameplay turned out?



Surge Bolter - this was a FIX, get it straight you surge bolter fan - the gun was outperforming other weapons due to missing weapon mechanics. Advocates of it's fix are your typical advocates of game fixes - but again you'd know that if you were spent some time on these forums.


It's laughable how you think I'm a surge bolter fan, yes it was a fix but who cried the loudest and blamed PvP players about the fix, ignorant PvE players such as yourself. Your posts which shows how you blame the PvP players about fix / adjustments on weapons show how dumb you are.



Why bring up the grenade change? I guarantee I know much more on this topic than you. I was here on the forums posting again and again explaining why the change shouldn’t happen and then again why it should be reverted. Where were you? Oh, you must save your posts for special occasions like this Feast of B.S. here.


I mentioned the grenade change because ignorant players such as yourself probably blamed it on the PvP players for it.



Semi Auto Sniper Rifle DMG Buff?? What? Again with the making things up, tsk, tsk.


Look at the old patch notes (FACT), there was a Semi Auto Sniper Rifle Damage buff on top of the rarity of the weapon damage buff.

-- Semi-Auto Sniper Rifles has been given a 30% damage boost to better adjust for their limited ammo supply. --

Not my fault your ignorant and have no common sense to look that up.



Expert CoOp Difficulty changed and I remember no one crying out for this to happen. Please enlighten me - go search the forum and find me the PvE player crying out for this.


http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?156457-Listen-To-Reason-Devs-amp-Not-The-Mob-DLC-5-only-needs-minor-adjustments.

Long discussion but it's there... from threat level / Scaling / Harder Mobs / CO-OP's etc.. etc...



So you think you have facts? You think you can tell me what’s what on this game? Give me a frickin' break.

I don't have to give you a break, I can just put down facts your ignorant mind can't comprehend.



PvP Players don't want balance - they want better K/D ratios than the other guy. Anything that allows the other guy to best them is OP and should be nerfed.


PvE ignorance at it's finest toward the PvP minority...

Overtkill21
07-19-2014, 07:07 PM
LOL, you reply to me with Patch notes links?

You bring up the Rocket Launcher fix from the Second week of the game?

No proof of any of this PvE players were responsible for this and that? I'm shocked.

You know what - it's pointless talking to you, no wonder you avoid the forums.

Go back to getting killed by the underpowered Bloodhound.

Deunan
07-19-2014, 07:16 PM
Back in the days that was as close to a standard there could be, white weapons did not have any major differences from Oranges concerning the damage side of it, and were viable nowadays they are not.I'm not sure what your point is. There were still weapon imbalances from day one between weapon lines and weapon models. You of all people know this. Certain models of certain weapon models were and are still pointless to use. That hardly supports the notion that weapons "were pretty much standard damage across the board" at any point in the history of this game.


Look at the old patch notes (FACT), there was a Semi Auto Sniper Rifle Damage buff on top of the rarity of the weapon damage buff.PvE players never asked for more damage for semi-auto sniper rifles. All players thought the ammo pool was too small whether it was for PvE or PvP content. That was just another "fix" to an issue by the devs that no one actually asked for illustrating their lack of understanding as to why players wanted more ammo. It wasn't so they could do more damage to a bullet sponge. It was so they could take out more trash mobs in PvE without having to run to an ammo box close to the action which defeats the point of sniping, and so they could kill more players in PvP before running out of ammo where the ammo pool was even smaller and where in Shadow Wars you could find yourself at a location that had no ammo boxes nearby.


Long discussion but it's there... from threat level / Scaling / Harder Mobs / CO-OP's etc.. etc...So what? It was never about PvP players bragging and PvE players complaining. In the context of discussing PvE content and nothing but PvE content which is all that thread did, there is no PvP voice in the discussion. There is no dichotomy. That's simply pure fabrication on your part and all making such an outlandish claim does is pointlessly undermine your credibility.

If you bothered to read or participate in the discussions in any meaningful way you would know that many players in the discussion weren't advocating reworking dynamic scaling because they were having difficulty with it but because they were concerned about how it would impact on the longevity of the game by giving new players in general and casual players in particular a negative experience and result in high attrition rates when the game went free to play.

Xervez
07-19-2014, 07:32 PM
LOL, you reply to me with Patch notes links?

You bring up the Rocket Launcher fix from the Second week of the game?

No proof of any of this PvE players were responsible for this and that? I'm shocked.

You know what - it's pointless talking to you, no wonder you avoid the forums.

Go back to getting killed by the underpowered Bloodhound.

Ignorance yet again, I provide proof of the facts you asked for and yet you deny the changes they made...

Sit down an go to your corner, grown ups with facts are talking...

Overtkill21
07-19-2014, 07:36 PM
Ignorance yet again, I provide proof of the facts you asked for and yet you deny the changes they made...

Sit down an go to your corner, grown ups with facts are talking...

You have proven how ignorant and lacking in factual information you are already, so are you now trying to go for the trifecta by showing us just how immature as well?

Xervez
07-19-2014, 07:37 PM
You have proven how ignorant and lacking in factual information you are already, so are you now trying to go for the trifecta by showing us just how immature as well?

So I guess you don't know how to read facts that you stated that I made up then showed you the patch notes? Go figure...

End conversation....

Overtkill21
07-19-2014, 07:46 PM
So I guess you don't know how to read facts that you stated that I made up then showed you the patch notes? Go figure...

End conversation....

You attempt to insinuate that PvE players whining is responsible for all of these changes then you show patch notes that show evidence of no such thing?

You're right, conversation over - you've got nothing to say.

(Oh, and convenient for you to gloss over Deunan's eloquent burn of your noob posts, huh?)

cmpowell
07-19-2014, 08:20 PM
As of right now the new homing Detonator version doesn't have homing balls that register when they are coming at you like the Homing SMG / The Guided Rocket Launcher / The Breaker Cannon / The Cereberus Passenger missile Launcher, they just instantly go on you and can be detonated, so there is no way to defend yourself against it.

On top of that they can go through walls / Mountains / pretty much anything right now, if you can't see that being a problem then it's hopeless trying to even reason with you.

kiwi has already said an "adjustment" for the detonator is already coming in a future patch, but they also said in one of the live streams that one of the new vendor weapons was still shooting through walls and they were trying to tweak that before they released the new weapons. we shall see

but I think the problem with our discussion is I'm only talking about the blood hound

Xervez
07-19-2014, 08:27 PM
I'm not sure what your point is. There were still weapon imbalances from day one between weapon lines and weapon models. You of all people know this. Certain models of certain weapon models were and are still pointless to use. That hardly supports the notion that weapons "were pretty much standard damage across the board" at any point in the history of this game.

PvE players never asked for more damage for semi-auto sniper rifles. All players thought the ammo pool was too small whether it was for PvE or PvP content. That was just another "fix" to an issue by the devs that no one actually asked for illustrating their lack of understanding as to why players wanted more ammo. It wasn't so they could do more damage to a bullet sponge. It was so they could take out more trash mobs in PvE without having to run to an ammo box close to the action which defeats the point of sniping, and so they could kill more players in PvP before running out of ammo where the ammo pool was even smaller and where in Shadow Wars you could find yourself at a location that had no ammo boxes nearby.

So what? It was never about PvP players bragging and PvE players complaining. In the context of discussing PvE content and nothing but PvE content which is all that thread did, there is no PvP voice in the discussion. There is no dichotomy. That's simply pure fabrication on your part and all making such an outlandish claim does is pointlessly undermine your credibility.



You again, I took the time to look for the old posts to prove the issues that ignorant PvE player wanted, apparently I don't know what to tell you since you and I basically agree on the same thing except you tend to drag these things on.

PvP back in the days was more balanced back then even with all it's faults, nowadays it's a different story, if you didn't participate in it constantly back then don't come here and talk like you knew how it was...



If you bothered to read or participate in the discussions in any meaningful way you would know that many players in the discussion weren't advocating reworking dynamic scaling because they were having difficulty with it but because they were concerned about how it would impact on the longevity of the game by giving new players in general and casual players in particular a negative experience and result in high attrition rates when the game went free to play.

In that full discussion people were talking about it being easy already, and explaining that Scaling up and down didn't really make a difference just made more bullet sponges which you and I agree on but yet you seem to jump all over the point I was trying to make.

Fact is they did lower the difficulty a few times compared to when it first popped up on the test server. The discussions we had on the test forums were discussing about the difficulty of the CO-OP's / Scaling etc... since they didn't bump up our Ego levels at that time it was hard to compete with THREAT lvl 10 enemies with 1k-2k characters and weapons. When they allowed us to have a main characters on the test server, it pretty much became easy.

Here is a small snowball about the discussion about PvE being too hard even though it was the wrong way of implementing tougher foes.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?155798-Well-that-killed-my-fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also if you read through the previous pages, TRION doesn't listen to the PvP minority, they pay attention to posts like this...

The point I was trying to make wasn't that PvP players were bragging about it but when some PvE players started saying they didn't like the added difficulty and it being tedious etc etc... here comes TRION bang adjusts the difficulty.

I don't disagree with you, and if I bothered to participate on the conversations, dude I help test the damn thing when it first hit the PTS server.. The CORE group that tested it, when we had our mains on the PTS, we said it was really easy, truth is we thought they were going to make it harder but a snowball thread on not pleasing f2p / PvE players that don't really know how to work the new mechanics probably caused a chain reaction.

The chain reaction in which you, yourself gave the answer too,

Many players in the discussion weren't advocating reworking dynamic scaling because they were having difficulty with it but because they were concerned about how it would impact on the longevity of the game by giving new players in general and casual players in particular a negative experience and result in high attrition rates when the game went free to play.

Those few sentences sounded good but your half right on top of that people really didn't like the difficulty they added, which was bullet sponges / it made tedious etc etc... list goes on, another

ex is the Massive spawns of Ark Visceara that used to spawn in Sieges / Incursions, they admitted to the insane amounts but their was quite an uproar about it being too hard / crazy / dieing / not being able to break their shield and if you don't remember those posts talking about how hard that was then you don't get the point of when some PvE players start crying about difficulty boom here comes TRION to adjust the difficulty.

The original point I was making, is that they don't listen to the PvP minority yet ignorant PvE players cry foul when something gets adjusted then blame the PvP minority. When PvE players cry, boom here comes the adjustment stick and yet they still blame the PvP minority.

Just look at this statement right here



PvP Players don't want balance - they want better K/D ratios than the other guy. Anything that allows the other guy to best them is OP and should be nerfed.


Ignorant at best, already assuming what they have no understanding of.

Xervez
07-19-2014, 08:32 PM
You attempt to insinuate that PvE players whining is responsible for all of these changes then you show patch notes that show evidence of no such thing?

You're right, conversation over - you've got nothing to say.

(Oh, and convenient for you to gloss over Deunan's eloquent burn of your noob posts, huh?)

PvE whining is what caused a lot changes, not the PvP minority as I stated through patch notes and a few threads posted with discussions but unlike you I took the time to show proof yet you still are as ignorant as ever and are still probably blaming the PvP minority for everything.

Live in your little bubble, and also Deunan's eloquent talk, so what? He/she and I agree yet he/she talks so much above themselves they can't see their own point which was we both agree on the same thing..

Chump Norris
07-19-2014, 08:39 PM
This thread is about the new Defiant rep weapons being OP...which is not the case for the Bloodhound in PvE.

So how do the other new Defiant Few weapons hold up in PvE?

Overtkill21
07-19-2014, 08:47 PM
PvE whining is what caused a lot changes.

Still on this, still can't prove it...still not a contributing member to meaningful discussions on this forum. Done with you.

Xervez
07-19-2014, 08:57 PM
Still on this, still can't prove it...still not a contributing member to meaningful discussions on this forum. Done with you.

Hey Bubble Boy,

You really can't connect the DOTS can you, I posted a few threads that are snowballs that rolled downhill and probably got bigger.

Why do you think they implemented those changes, there had to be a discussion somewhere pvp forums maybe, and general discussions, you think all those changes came outta their shtako?

Geez, apparently you have no clue how to use the search button, helping you learn how to read is not my problem.

Good your done with me, you showed how ignorant you are with your first post



PvP Players don't want balance - they want better K/D ratios than the other guy. Anything that allows the other guy to best them is OP and should be nerfed.


Ignorant at best, already assuming what they have no understanding of.

nathanpbutler
07-19-2014, 09:03 PM
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6755690240/h1EC34D2C/

Overtkill21
07-19-2014, 09:22 PM
Hey Bubble Boy,

You really can't connect the DOTS can you, I posted a few threads that are snowballs that rolled downhill and probably got bigger.

Why do you think they implemented those changes, there had to be a discussion somewhere pvp forums maybe, and general discussions, you think all those changes came outta their shtako?

Geez, apparently you have no clue how to use the search button, helping you learn how to read is not my problem.

You make a blanket statement about PvE players and it is incumbent on me to prove that you were correct? You must be as dumb as your avatar pic, gimp.

Nefarious
07-19-2014, 09:50 PM
idk what this conversation has been about. One thing I do know is that the Blood Hound is not balanced considering its functionality. It could use a bit slower rate of fire, slower projectile travel speeds, and a shorter lock on range. Would such changes even affect its PvE performance? Nope.

Lets face it, the Blood Hound was made to be a PvP weapon. If it wasn't then it would of been made to be a lot stronger and without the need to lock on to targets. There is absolutely no need what so ever to have a lock on weapon against PvE enemies, they don't move around that much for a need for such a thing. On the other hand PvP players move around a hell of a lot, and having a gun that locks on and heat seeks on targets at a rapid rate is kinda not balanced for that kind of gig.

Trion could nerf the hell out of the Blood Hound and it will still home in and hit their mark on PvE enemies all the same because PvE enemies hardly run around and they are not looking to dodge attacks. So whats the big deal of nerfing lock on features for weapons in Defiance again? This is the Immunizer argument all over again.

Nalai
07-19-2014, 09:57 PM
I think we can all agree that weapons in Defiance are overpowered or underpowered because math is hard and hard things don't get worked on. At this point, I'm pretty sure there are contributors at DefianceData that know more about the mechanics of the weapons in this game than the people that should be working on these designs.

I think we can also all agree that threat scaling and ego boosting are still pointless gimmicks even though they work slight better now. They did nothing for PVE and they made PVP even more unbalanced.

Bubbie
07-19-2014, 10:02 PM
................

konstantinov
07-19-2014, 10:09 PM
idk what this conversation has been about. One thing I do know is that the Blood Hound is not balanced considering is functionality. It could use a bit slower rate of fire, slower projectile travel speeds, and a shorter lock on range. Would such changes even affect its PvE performance? Nope.

Lets face it, the Blood Hound was made to be a PvP weapon. If it wasn't then it would of been made to be a lot stronger and without the need to lock on to targets. There is absolutely no need what so ever to have a lock on weapon against PvE enemies, they don't move around that much for a need for such a thing. On the other hand PvP players move around a hell of a lot, and having a gun that locks on and heat seeks on targets at a rapid rate is kinda not balanced for that kind of gig.

Trion could nerf the hell out of the Blood Hound and it will still home in and hit their mark on PvE enemies all the same because PvE enemies hardly run around and they are not looking to dodge attacks. So whats the big deal of nerfing lock on features for weapons in Defiance again? This is the Immunizer argument all over again.

Oh sweet baby jesus save us.

Nefarious
07-19-2014, 10:24 PM
Mods of defiance, have you no shame? To let this outrageous thread to rage on like a forest fire? This is no discussion, but toxicity at its finest. The problems have been echoed and I am sure you are aware, yet you stand idly by as you watch men become savages; a barbaric conversion you could have easily prevented.

This thread is a prime example of why players do not look to the forums for 411 and you "veterans" should be ashamed, as well as the mods.

lol when it comes to nerf threads they let us go at it. These things always turn into forest fires. And you cant put these fires out. You just have to let it go and consume the whole forest until there is nothing left to consume and it naturally fizzles out.

Chump Norris
07-19-2014, 10:24 PM
idk what this conversation has been about. One thing I do know is that the Blood Hound is not balanced considering is functionality. It could use a bit slower rate of fire, slower projectile travel speeds, and a shorter lock on range. Would such changes even affect its PvE performance? Nope.

Lets face it, the Blood Hound was made to be a PvP weapon. If it wasn't then it would of been made to be a lot stronger and without the need to lock on to targets. There is absolutely no need what so ever to have a lock on weapon against PvE enemies, they don't move around that much for a need for such a thing. On the other hand PvP players move around a hell of a lot, and having a gun that locks on and heat seeks on targets at a rapid rate is kinda not balanced for that kind of gig.

Trion could nerf the hell out of the Blood Hound and it will still home in and hit their mark on PvE enemies all the same because PvE enemies hardly run around and they are not looking to dodge attacks. So whats the big deal of nerfing lock on features for weapons in Defiance again? This is the Immunizer argument all over again.

No lets not face that. You really think the people at Trion were sitting around and thought lets make a gun for PvP? PvP is a very small part of this game and most people dont give a **** about it. Which is part of the reason it has taken a year for some sort of cloak fix.

Just lol at the idea of a gun made for PvP...

Nefarious
07-19-2014, 10:33 PM
No lets not face that. You really think the people at Trion were sitting around and thought lets make a gun for PvP? PvP is a very small part of this game and most people dont give a **** about it. Which is part of the reason it has taken a year for some sort of cloak fix.

Just lol at the idea of a gun made for PvP...

What you think it was made to for the stand around PvE enemies?

Whatever the case you think it was made for or not my points still stands. The gun functions could be nerfed and it would work on PvE enemies all the same. But in PvP it would give players some buffer room against its heat seeking shots.

konstantinov
07-19-2014, 10:33 PM
No lets not face that. You really think the people at Trion were sitting around and thought lets make a gun for PvP? PvP is a very small part of this game and most people dont give a **** about it. Which is part of the reason it has taken a year for some sort of cloak fix.

Just lol at the idea of a gun made for PvP...

I have 2 solutions Chump.

Solution A

All weapons will be made from balloons.

Only weapons allowed are spoons, nunchucks, and hats.

Hats must be worn at all times.

No nanos, perks or ego powers.

Body contact is illegal resulting in auto DQ.

Attempting to make swords is illegal.

After pvp everyone will receive a trophy for playing (there are no losers)

Solution 2

Paper football

Nefarious
07-19-2014, 10:45 PM
I have 2 solutions Chump.

Solution A

All weapons will be made from balloons.

Only weapons allowed are spoons, nunchucks, and hats.

Hats must be worn at all times.

No nanos, perks or ego powers.

Body contact is illegal resulting in auto DQ.

Attempting to make swords is illegal.

After pvp everyone will receive a trophy for playing (there are no losers)

Solution 2

Paper football

How about a better idea. Lets have it so all the guns get deleted except the Surge Bolter. And we take the Surge Bolter and make it a 500 round machine gun that activates cloak with every shot and shoots flying Infector bugs that seek out targets indefinitely and explode with 20.0 explosive radius that causes over 100k damage. This way we can all get through the hassle of narrowing down to using the best and strongest weapon in the game.

So pretty much essentially doing what Defiance already does with weapon choice.

Xervez
07-19-2014, 11:09 PM
What you think it was made to for the stand around PvE enemies?

Whatever the case you think it was made for or not my points still stands. The gun functions could be nerfed and it would work on PvE enemies all the same. But in PvP it would give players some buffer room against its heat seeking shots.

That's the thing, a lot of players excuse me I don't want to rile up the PvE crowd again, cannot connect the DOT's they believe that slight adjustments will ruin the weapon.

Nef you should use the term slight adjustments on weapons, it sounds better then nerf because once that word appears you have players jumping all over the place scrambling outta the woodwork.

The fact is a person can come on and EXPLAIN what kind of adjustments they could do to the weapon and have it not affect the PvE experience then have players jump out and attack him without giving logical reasons on why they should not change it with there only reason is DON'T CHANGE IT, is pretty accurate on how this thread went.

For god's sake we have a post like this, if this wasn't ignorance / hostility then what is...



PvP Players don't want balance - they want better K/D ratios than the other guy. Anything that allows the other guy to best them is OP and should be nerfed.


Ignorant at best, already assuming what they have no understanding of.

ConcreteSnake
07-19-2014, 11:25 PM
User says weapon is OP + Devs say slight adjustment = Nerfed to dust.

Chump Norris
07-19-2014, 11:34 PM
I have 2 solutions Chump.

Solution A

All weapons will be made from balloons.

Only weapons allowed are spoons, nunchucks, and hats.

Hats must be worn at all times.

No nanos, perks or ego powers.

Body contact is illegal resulting in auto DQ.

Attempting to make swords is illegal.

After pvp everyone will receive a trophy for playing (there are no losers)

Solution 2

Paper football

Are you reading this Trion? I think kons just balanced the game for you.

Bonehead
07-20-2014, 01:41 AM
I like balloons.

HAYABUSA DCLXVI
07-20-2014, 03:16 AM
There should be NO auto-aim weapons in PvP,
Cankers especially.

All that said, the Gang Buster is really fun to use :)

Kuurong
07-20-2014, 03:54 AM
Ignorant.


Seems Ironic that this is the only word you use when speaking to others.. You're ignorant because you have a complete and utter bias against PvE players, Oh and don't worry. After this post I'm done with the thread. -pulls out a few blocks of wood and a match setting them down neatly- Enjoy trying to start a flame here, I will be off enjoying the game the way I play it.

Chocolatelover67
07-20-2014, 06:45 AM
I have 2 solutions Chump.

Solution A

All weapons will be made from balloons.

Only weapons allowed are spoons, nunchucks, and hats.

Hats must be worn at all times.

No nanos, perks or ego powers.

Body contact is illegal resulting in auto DQ.

Attempting to make swords is illegal.

After pvp everyone will receive a trophy for playing (there are no losers)

Solution 2

Paper football


Further to your solution we all must hop inside one of these in game to pvp

See attached image:

http://cdn.dogomedia.com/system/ckeditor_assets/pictures/52251c631860e004270039e6/content_Bubble-Football-e1327231465966.jpg

Grims Reaper
07-20-2014, 06:47 AM
Think surge boltor/splitshot while cloaking in pvp but homing and more damage on the gang buster.
Was playing pvp killing ppl then bam! Thought a bus ran me over, had chimera shield on and still one shotted lool. I know what gun Im getting nxt :)

Xervez
07-20-2014, 06:50 AM
Seems Ironic that this is the only word you use when speaking to others.. You're ignorant because you have a complete and utter bias against PvE players, Oh and don't worry. After this post I'm done with the thread. -pulls out a few blocks of wood and a match setting them down neatly- Enjoy trying to start a flame here, I will be off enjoying the game the way I play it.

OK another PSN user I assume...

Where in the thread have I said ALL PvE players? I do both in the game, PvE and PvP but I side on the PvP side since I have common sense enough to know that SLIGHT adjustments to a weapon won't totally destroy it, and both sides can still be pleased with it.

Nef actually mentions some slight changes to the weapon which won't affect it's overall performance, and it would still make it viable in PvE but you see ignorant PvE players (are you an ignorant player?) that don't seem to read further and just jump on it with no logical reason or an open mind for a slight adjustment that could be a middle ground that could please both sides.

So I guess your saying these comments aren't ignorant ...?



PvP Players don't want balance - they want better K/D ratios than the other guy. Anything that allows the other guy to best them is OP and should be nerfed.




If they nerf the Bloodhound it will be 100% useless for PvE, y'know the REAL game.



User says weapon is OP + Devs say slight adjustment = Nerfed to dust.

Comments like this are heard the loudest with no common sense, while Nef here actually explains reasonable but slight adjustments that could be made which wont destroy your new toys.

Before any logical reason is applied it's an outburst with no facts, and no counter argument besides it's my toy don't touch it, is just silly.


I wont say remove pvp altogether because i can see that some people enjoy it and im all for choice. However i have to agree with others that there have been too many horrible nerfs in the name of pvp.


This post right here is at least in the middle ground, can at least be reasoned with... but the comment of all the weapon adjustments were based on PvP nerfs is misleading, the whole point of my posts were to show to everyone that many of the weapon changes wasn't based on PvP logic but on the PvE side of it.

Ruinne
07-20-2014, 07:20 AM
Further to your solution we all must hop inside one of these in game to pvp

See attached image:

http://cdn.dogomedia.com/system/ckeditor_assets/pictures/52251c631860e004270039e6/content_Bubble-Football-e1327231465966.jpg

Y'know.. That would be a lot of fun.

DopedGoat
07-20-2014, 08:27 AM
I put in a lot of time and effort to earn the weapons i use for PvP.

Then for some crazy reason trion give everyone this ridiculous auto aim grenade launcher which in all my life of gaming is the most ******** weapon I've ever seen.

Pvp was barely playable before this nevermind now.

Overtkill21
07-20-2014, 02:08 PM
I figured this thread wouldn't be good for a laugh any more - but I was wrong - LOL @ Xervez changing his Avatar pic and for repeatedly quoting me.

Now that is priceless.

Deunan
07-20-2014, 11:57 PM
I tried out the detonator in Shadow Wars. It was a bit hard to assess because the teams were a bit lopsided and the majority of the players on my team were below average so I was constantly getting double and triple teamed but it only seems really OP because of the two oddities about the weapons ability to lock on target that someone mentioned earlier in this thread and the ability of the grenades to pass through objects.

If you take those away this is a guided rocket launcher with a round capacity that is 3 higher than the VBI Guided Launcher and the ability to charge the first shot for increased damage, it will not be without its drawbacks for use in PvP.

The round velocity is slow, slower than a Volge rifle and, even with a t4 velocity mod on the weapon, not much faster. The lock time is about 4 seconds. The charge time is slow. If you take away the ability to maintain a lock outside of draw distance and on cloaked players these drawbacks make the ability to charge a shot no more OP than that of a surge bolter with similar limitations on when a player is going to be able to fire off a fully charged shot. Without charging the shot it's still a race to kill a player before that player kills you if that player is good with their weapon and it's also a high burst damage one such as a sniper rifle or a Slugger. It can be shut down if you use either an Ablative Armor Stim or a Protection Spike while firing with a sniper rifle, Slugger or Big Boomer.

It is absolutely nothing like a guided Big Boomer. The round damage is comparable to the VBI Guided Launcher not the Big Boomer and the blast radius is a normal one, not the large one of the Big Boomer.

If they remove the ability to maintain lock on a cloaked target and to lock onto targets outside of rendering distance, that should be sufficient and it won't have any appreciable impact on the weapon's utility for PvE. If they do this the weapon might still be considered OP for PvP but no more so than a Big Boomer, Surge Bolter, Slugger, etc. and there's no point in doing anything further with the weapon if they aren't going to do anything to the others. I doubt they'll do anything more than that, if they even go beyond fixing the bug.

adrokier
07-21-2014, 12:35 AM
I tried out the detonator in Shadow Wars. It was a bit hard to assess because the teams were a bit lopsided and the majority of the players on my team were below average so I was constantly getting double and triple teamed but it only seems really OP because of the two oddities about the weapons ability to lock on target that someone mentioned earlier in this thread and the ability of the grenades to pass through objects.

If you take those away this is a guided rocket launcher with a round capacity that is 3 higher than the VBI Guided Launcher and the ability to charge the first shot for increased damage. It will not be without its drawbacks for use in PvP.

The round velocity is slow, slower than a Volge rifle and, even with a t4 velocity mod on the weapon, not much faster. The lock time is about 4 seconds. The charge time is slow. If you take away the ability to maintain a lock outside of draw distance and on cloaked players these drawbacks make the ability to charge a shot no more OP than that of a surge bolter with similar limitations on when a player is going to be able to fire off a fully charged shot. Without charging the shot it's still a race to kill a player before that player kills you if that player is good with their weapon and it's also a high burst damage one such as a sniper rifle or a Slugger. It can be shut down if you use either an Ablative Armor Stim or a Protection Spike while firing with a sniper rifle, Slugger or Big Boomer.

It is absolutely nothing like a guided Big Boomer. The round damage is comparable to the VBI Guided Launcher not the Big Boomer and the blast radius is a normal one, not the large one of the Big Boomer.

If they remove the ability to maintain lock on a cloaked target and to lock onto targets outside of rendering distance, that should be sufficient and it won't have any appreciable impact on the weapon's utility for PvE. If they do this the weapon might still be considered OP for PvP but no more so than a Big Boomer, Surge Bolter, Slugger, etc. and there's no point in doing anything further with the weapon if they aren't going to do anything to the others. I doubt they'll do anything more than that, if they even go beyond fixing the bug.

100% right, they way this thing is right now, is OP in PVP and not fair!

On PS3EU we have in general 8-10Gamers in SWAR 4Gamers using this Detonator with Zagger and Falloff DMG ... why shud we play SWAR?? Makes no Sense with those Weapons !! Poor Days for Defiance, many Gamers just coin the Daily Contracts and logoff in these Days .. I know many PVP Gamers who did it ... they wait until the Weapons are balanced again

drackiller
07-21-2014, 01:07 AM
Best way to balance PVP would be to give same weapons to everyone just a few perks from to choose and no EGO powers.
Everyone would have the same loadout and then no one could whine about the others.
Don`t many of you PVP players brag about your mad skills!? That would be the way to show it.
Then we PVE players could enjoy the weapons as they are supposed to be.

Good idea uh?

adrokier
07-21-2014, 01:12 AM
Best way to balance PVP would be to give same weapons to everyone just a few perks from to choose and no EGO powers.
Everyone would have the same loadout and then no one could whine about the others.
Don`t many of you PVP players brag about your mad skills!? That would be the way to show it.
Then we PVE players could enjoy the weapons as they are supposed to be.

Good idea uh?

Yep good Idea ... but just removing the "new" Detonator from PVP wud a beginning ^^

whit
07-21-2014, 02:37 AM
Said on another thread, but this seems to be the popular thread, only allow the new weapons to lock onto NPCs.

duction
07-21-2014, 03:05 AM
Now they have been out for a few days does every one still belive they don't need a nerf? :rolleyes:

adrokier
07-21-2014, 03:13 AM
Now they have been out for a few days does every one still belive they don't need a nerf? :rolleyes:

In PVP yes ! Please ^^ ... but think they r looking onto that right now

Chump Norris
07-21-2014, 03:33 AM
Now they have been out for a few days does every one still belive they don't need a nerf? :rolleyes:


I tried out the detonator in Shadow Wars. It was a bit hard to assess because the teams were a bit lopsided and the majority of the players on my team were below average so I was constantly getting double and triple teamed but it only seems really OP because of the two oddities about the weapons ability to lock on target that someone mentioned earlier in this thread and the ability of the grenades to pass through objects.

If you take those away this is a guided rocket launcher with a round capacity that is 3 higher than the VBI Guided Launcher and the ability to charge the first shot for increased damage, it will not be without its drawbacks for use in PvP.

The round velocity is slow, slower than a Volge rifle and, even with a t4 velocity mod on the weapon, not much faster. The lock time is about 4 seconds. The charge time is slow. If you take away the ability to maintain a lock outside of draw distance and on cloaked players these drawbacks make the ability to charge a shot no more OP than that of a surge bolter with similar limitations on when a player is going to be able to fire off a fully charged shot. Without charging the shot it's still a race to kill a player before that player kills you if that player is good with their weapon and it's also a high burst damage one such as a sniper rifle or a Slugger. It can be shut down if you use either an Ablative Armor Stim or a Protection Spike while firing with a sniper rifle, Slugger or Big Boomer.

It is absolutely nothing like a guided Big Boomer. The round damage is comparable to the VBI Guided Launcher not the Big Boomer and the blast radius is a normal one, not the large one of the Big Boomer.

If they remove the ability to maintain lock on a cloaked target and to lock onto targets outside of rendering distance, that should be sufficient and it won't have any appreciable impact on the weapon's utility for PvE. If they do this the weapon might still be considered OP for PvP but no more so than a Big Boomer, Surge Bolter, Slugger, etc. and there's no point in doing anything further with the weapon if they aren't going to do anything to the others. I doubt they'll do anything more than that, if they even go beyond fixing the bug.

You should give that a read.

EDIT: I also want to say to Deunan great post with good information. Not just some vague omg the new weapons are so OP thread.

Pandur
07-21-2014, 04:12 AM
Meh and if it's op, who cares, one more OP weapon won't matter much.
I'll keep on bunny hopping with my precise chaos. Just 30 hours or so to go.........

Does it really have a lock on time of 4 seconds ? Seems rather useless in that case.

duction
07-21-2014, 04:28 AM
You should give that a read.

EDIT: I also want to say to Deunan great post with good information. Not just some vague omg the new weapons are so OP thread.


I did and what a load of nonsense, I can DOMINATE pvp with this, you can't escape it when capping a point, the range is amazing, you can't dodge it.. The list goes on.

In fact if I get a chance I will cap a match for you.

Chump Norris
07-21-2014, 04:48 AM
I did and what a load of nonsense, I can DOMINATE pvp with this, you can't escape it when capping a point, the range is amazing, you can't dodge it.. The list goes on.

In fact if I get a chance I will cap a match for you.

I will happily watch the video but can we wait till they fix the glitch? The last video of OPness only left me thinking about the glitch.

Ruinne
07-21-2014, 05:40 AM
Now they have been out for a few days does every one still belive they don't need a nerf? :rolleyes:

Honestly I don't. But not because they aren't top drawer gear, but because they are and that they are easily available to everybody. Getting a Zagger or a kick *** Boomer is dependent on the miserable lottery that is gear in defiance was the closest thing to imbalance in Defiance PvP. With these every single player has access to some of the best gear for killing their friends.

There will always be a best way to do everything, it may not be the way you want to do it.

Kedaran
07-21-2014, 06:43 AM
There will always be a best way to do everything, it may not be the way you want to do it.

But isn't that kinda the whole problem that plagues every MMO that most people refuses to see?

With the amount of diversity we have available to us nowadays, "not the way we want to do it" shouldn't even be a valid argument 99% of the times.

Sure, a boomer is never gonna be a good sniper weapon, but when a rep weapon is so much more powerful then an identical drop of the same rarity that only lack that "special feature", something is obviously broken.

I don't mind if rep gear are special, but they shouldn't be better then what you can get from a drop no matter how easy they are to get.

Ruinne
07-21-2014, 08:46 AM
But isn't that kinda the whole problem that plagues every MMO that most people refuses to see?

With the amount of diversity we have available to us nowadays, "not the way we want to do it" shouldn't even be a valid argument 99% of the times.

Sure, a boomer is never gonna be a good sniper weapon, but when a rep weapon is so much more powerful then an identical drop of the same rarity that only lack that "special feature", something is obviously broken.

I don't mind if rep gear are special, but they shouldn't be better then what you can get from a drop no matter how easy they are to get.

I understand what you're saying but I disagree, gear in defiance is a Lottery with appalling odds. Someone out there may get a shotgun with an ultra rare set of rolls that amount to an "iwin" button. If the gear that's best in PvP is available for a minimal rep grind any concept of imbalance is gone from this game's PvP.

PvP is not about balancing items against items, it's about balancing players against players. If everyone can get those rep items the last channel of valid complaint vanishes. All that's left is the endless and absolutely ridiculous "PvP is a joke!! My favourite build isn't powerful!!!" that this game's community is absolutely lousy with. There are millions of potential builds and billions with weapons, items and builds can't be balanced, but any player can use any build.

People who hate PvP claim they would want to see four standard load-outs for every player, well OP rep weapons make that a reality. The only shortcoming is that it's optional and we all know that the people who claim they want standard load-outs really just want the one they like to be the "iwin" button, they won't use them. They'll just move on to complaining that the rep weapons are OP. If the load-outs were mandatory and standardised they would complain about the last one that killed them.

Thanks to those rep weapons PvP is absolutely balanced now, every single player can load-out his character in the optimal way without trying to win the loottery (loot-tery get it? Get it?). The only complaint that will be left is people wanting their favourite weapon and power to be a PvP powerhouse, that's not going to happen, you have four powers, use the ones that work. Either do what it takes to win LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO or just keep getting run over because you choose to get run over.

*Firing though walls is not balance, though, obviously.

adrokier
07-21-2014, 11:03 AM
I contacted the Support to complain bout this Weapon in PVP, seems its not yet noticed from the Devs ...

pls Trion check the new Weapons in PVP, special this Detonator and may be give us Feedback bout the OP thing ... is it working as intended?

Its shooting thru Walls, around corner, if u are in target there is no escape, no hide, no cloak .. u are dead, this is not playing at all.

thx
archon aka ardokier

moof
07-21-2014, 11:09 AM
i hate to but into this thread but ill give you all some hope with a connect the dots post:

defiant few vendor has said weapons that are being argued over,it has all the things a faction vendor should have,weapons,vehicles,outfits (still no defiant few lockbox though) and titles

tarr family vendor has only two vehicles and three titles

an idea is that they are holding off on adding the good stuff to the votanis collective/tarr family vendor until later i nthe season,probably at the same time silicon valley is released

evidence is an episode in season one,where nolan busted what he thought was an illegal arms smuggling ring,only to find out that i nthe absense of the stasis net,the town council voted to go through the TARR FAMILY`s contacts to get "heavy weapons" from the votanis collective

the latest season 2 episode has datak mentioning "taking back the town",and "votanis collective weapons" to the mcculy guy

so this might end up being the opposing force to the defiant few weapons in the pvp arena i guess

edispilfnairb
07-21-2014, 11:19 AM
I got a box of lock on tissues for anyone who needs it, followed by wahhhhing with the world's smallest violin.

konstantinov
07-21-2014, 11:27 AM
I got a box of lock on tissues for anyone who needs it, followed by wahhhhing with the world's smallest violin.

Good thing I invested money in stocks for tissues.

duction
07-21-2014, 03:15 PM
Good thing I invested money in stocks for tissues.

good thing there is a ignore/mute button,

konstantinov
07-21-2014, 03:18 PM
good thing there is a ignore/mute button,

cool.......

Ruinne
07-21-2014, 03:38 PM
Good thing I invested money in stocks for tissues.

But I love the taste of tears and I refuse to suck them out of a used tissue because of obvious hazards.

the reaper
07-21-2014, 04:48 PM
I think the main problem with this thread is that everybody has been insulting each other so much. There where some good ideas of how to balance the weapons for PvP without really changing PvE, but nobody wanted to agree because they were all to busy insulting each other. Insulting somebody is never a good way to get your point across even if what you are saying is right, because it just makes it so hard to agree with people when their last post was about how stupid you are. I do know that not everybody was guilty of that, but this problem seems to occur in most of the debate threads.

P.S I know the main people in the argument have probably left this thread, but I just had to say it.

Logain
07-21-2014, 08:52 PM
Seams like the Gang Buster and Bloodhound might be adjusted.

What are people's thoughts on the crimefighter? It does not lock on, and is more shotgun/auto lobber mix. Fun to shoot but not over powered. Thoughts?

Terrato137
07-21-2014, 09:31 PM
Seams like the Gang Buster and Bloodhound might be adjusted.

What are people's thoughts on the crimefighter? It does not lock on, and is more shotgun/auto lobber mix. Fun to shoot but not over powered. Thoughts?

Besides the bug with the gang buster (idk if the fix for its wallhack has been applied yet) I really don't see any issue with either of the weapons.

SirServed
07-21-2014, 09:36 PM
Seams like the Gang Buster and Bloodhound might be adjusted.

What are people's thoughts on the crimefighter? It does not lock on, and is more shotgun/auto lobber mix. Fun to shoot but not over powered. Thoughts?

I bought one today and tested it in the daily expert. It killed everything, even me.

JadedSinn
07-22-2014, 01:22 AM
pts test of " ajustments " i didnt like what thy did. i will not go into more here.

Chump Norris
07-22-2014, 01:58 AM
pts test of " ajustments " i didnt like what thy did. i will not go into more here.

PvP holds this game back so much...

The Bloodhound while a tad weak felt so much like a Borderlands style weapon.

duction
07-22-2014, 02:29 AM
To be honest the things these weapons did were just ludicrous, and needed a tweak.

oO Gaul Oo
07-22-2014, 02:33 AM
I haven't personally used any of the weapons apart from test fires when I have gotten them out of the vendor. But that Defiant Few Crime Fighter/Auto Fragger is really freaking annoying with the splash damage especially when running Soleptor Excavation. You thought BMG's were bad run a closed map and have two people use that shotgun.

The grenade launcher is kind of cool though I have to be fair and the Bloodhound I am not too fussed on, it's a novelty and a flash in the pan.

Chump Norris
07-22-2014, 03:30 AM
Bloodhound I am not too fussed on, it's a novelty and a flash in the pan.

Because it was garbage in terms of DPS vs other SMGs. Thanks to nerfing before fixing glitches it should be even worse.

Shakk
07-22-2014, 04:01 AM
my 2 cents is if you only play PvE, you have no right to call out what guns should get fixed and wich ones are "perfectly fine". Only when you play both parts you will see. Also if the bloodhound is used as a DPS weapon at warmaster etc, allow me to laugh.

Chocolatelover67
07-22-2014, 04:02 AM
I love my gang buster..... Purple rules....... Great with Grid fights

Kanah
07-22-2014, 04:05 AM
But that Defiant Few Crime Fighter/Auto Fragger is really freaking annoying with the splash damage especially when running Soleptor Excavation. You thought BMG's were bad run a closed map and have two people use that shotgun.

The blinding flashes need serious nerf. Argh, my eyes.

Chump Norris
07-22-2014, 04:21 AM
my 2 cents is if you only play PvE, you have no right to call out what guns should get fixed and wich ones are "perfectly fine". Only when you play both parts you will see. Also if the bloodhound is used as a DPS weapon at warmaster etc, allow me to laugh.

The bulk of the game is PvE and the crossover content is PvE that should be the side that matters. Nerfing a gun to worthlessness in PvE is much worse than an OP gun in PvP especially if it is a gun everyone can easily get their hands on.


The blinding flashes need serious nerf. Argh, my eyes.

See the green doesnt bother my eyes as much as the cold fire blue bothers them. They do need to give us the option to tone these down or turn off other players blasts all together.

MadMoxxiFavGun
07-22-2014, 04:27 AM
my 2 cents is if you only play PvE, you have no right to call out what guns should get fixed and wich ones are "perfectly fine". Only when you play both parts you will see. Also if the bloodhound is used as a DPS weapon at warmaster etc, allow me to laugh.

I agree with this

ConcreteSnake
07-22-2014, 04:43 AM
Ha, the PvP crowd complains and gets the new weapons needed to dust. The MINORITY speaks up and Trion listens? Wow, great job guys, the bloodhound is pretty much a piece of junk now on top of the mountain of other guns in this game. I'll be playing PvP exclusively with Cloak, Big Boomer, Slugger, and Quartermaster Zagger because they won't fix those guns and to keep the complainers complaining.

Shakk
07-22-2014, 04:50 AM
All I'm saying is that you can't say "NO, THIS GUN IS PERFECT THE WAY IT IS!" When it is ruining a part of the game that YOU dont play. Me for example i play most PvP because I find it fun. I play PvE because I have to, I would enjoy it alot more if it was harder but it's simply way too easy. I've NEVER wiped completely in any co-op for example. Why? Because its impossible.

Most of all I'd like PvE and PvP to separate stats but lets face it, thats not gonna happen.

A gun that makes anyone defenseless on any range in PvP is not what i call balanced. There are still tons of guns better for every PvE-encounter in this game so why do you even bother?

You will never reach topscore in any WM/AF/Co-op using any of the new guns and suddenly it is the most important thing for you guys that the range on these guns doesn't get lowered?

duction
07-22-2014, 05:55 AM
It's because of how it performs in pvp they don't want it nerf'd... Don't think these guns are the top dogs for pve either so I'm not sure Why all the hostility

ConcreteSnake
07-22-2014, 06:04 AM
They are not the best in pve, but they were fun and unique. From what I played on the pts they are junk now, I think the birdshot pump is better and that's not saying much

adrokier
07-22-2014, 06:41 AM
PvP holds this game back so much...

The Bloodhound while a tad weak felt so much like a Borderlands style weapon.

PVP keeps this Game for Veterans alive ^^

The Gangbuster Detonator feels very much OP

Tallon
07-22-2014, 06:53 AM
Don't know about these guns and PVP, and really don't care about that broken game, But in PVE, the bloodhound and gangbuster are NOT the "OP" guns. The gangbuster is not really comparable to the big boomer and the lock-on just gets in the way - But it is kind of fun for long distance sniping. The bloodhound works O.K. but my sumimoto's do more and faster damage. The splash damage puts in on par with the cold-fire weapons and the lockon actually comes in handy, but again the damage just isn't there. I tend to use a bio sumimoto to drop armor and then switch to the bloodhound for crowd control.
There are uses for these weapons as with most weapons, but they aren't really the "OP" weapons people are talking about.

ConcreteSnake
07-22-2014, 07:22 AM
Don't know about these guns and PVP, and really don't care about that broken game, But in PVE, the bloodhound and gangbuster are NOT the "OP" guns. The gangbuster is not really comparable to the big boomer and the lock-on just gets in the way - But it is kind of fun for long distance sniping. The bloodhound works O.K. but my sumimoto's do more and faster damage. The splash damage puts in on par with the cold-fire weapons and the lockon actually comes in handy, but again the damage just isn't there. I tend to use a bio sumimoto to drop armor and then switch to the bloodhound for crowd control.
There are uses for these weapons as with most weapons, but they aren't really the "OP" weapons people are talking about.

they are both already needed on the public test server, the gangbuster now drops to the ground like a regular detonator and lock on range is much shorter. Bloodhound is similar and it explodes in mid air after a certain range and are easy to out run in pvp. They are basically worthless now and I don't see them changing what they did, it will be on love servers in 2 days

drackiller
07-22-2014, 07:24 AM
I don`t know why i even bother.

Like Overtkill said in another thread, revert my BH back and give me my hard working game time AF back.

Keep the crap weapons to yourselfs, just give me the Af that i earned by playing the game and then you stoled from me by misleading me and others.

adrokier
07-22-2014, 07:38 AM
they are both already needed on the public test server, the gangbuster now drops to the ground like a regular detonator and lock on range is much shorter. Bloodhound is similar and it explodes in mid air after a certain range and are easy to out run in pvp. They are basically worthless now and I don't see them changing what they did, it will be on love servers in 2 days

Nice to read m8 ^^

Zhedda
07-22-2014, 07:40 AM
Interesting double standard they have. They "minority" wanted to keep WM the way it was, but apparently the majority wanted the encounter to suck more. PVP is the minority and they want the new weapons to suck more. Seems like the only time Trion listens is when they want this game to suck.

Scapes, Kiwi, anyone, if we spent 900 ark forge upgrading one of these things for PVE and you nerf it into the dust, are we going to be able to request a refund to get our ark forge back? I could care less about PVP. I got the weapon to have fun with in PVE, and if it is going to be useless there, I'd rather have my hard-earned forge back to spend it on something worth using.

Zhedda
07-22-2014, 07:46 AM
There are still tons of guns better for every PvE-encounter in this game so why do you even bother?

You will never reach topscore in any WM/AF/Co-op using any of the new guns and suddenly it is the most important thing for you guys that the range on these guns doesn't get lowered?

Because it is new. It is fun. It is different. I bought and upgraded one for use with dailies and solo arenas. Against certain factions the one I upgraded is kind of decent. Not the best, but comparable to some of my other SMGs in certain situations.

3rdpig
07-22-2014, 08:42 AM
The second I shot the Bloodhound I knew it would be nerfed or removed, it was way too much fun.

I don't play PvP and have no intention of ever trying it again. The Bloodhound was fun in PvE and it resparked, at least for a few nights, my interest in the game. I bought two purples and probably would have spent/bought the arkforge needed to upgrade them.

Oh well, it's back to Firefall for me!

agiantmudcrab
07-22-2014, 08:51 AM
I blame this thread for the uneeded Bloodhound nerf.....

Terrato137
07-22-2014, 09:09 AM
I blame this thread for the uneeded Bloodhound nerf.....

Depending on what they change, you're probably right.

the reaper
07-22-2014, 09:14 AM
I heard that they got rid of the range on the bloodhound and gangbuster on the 2.105 to PTS thread.

Holy Bahamut3
07-22-2014, 09:18 AM
I've said it a few times and I'll say it again. THE BLOODHOUND does NOT need tweaking. Recently I poked my head in a couple of PvP matches with mine. While I got a few kills with it, I was not invincible. I was taken down by swords more often than anything. As far as the other two go I don't believe they are overpowered either. Only the going through walls thing needs to be fixed. Probably won't get a chance to test them now due to the upcoming Nerf. Rather waste my rep on a crappy vehicles or a crappy outfit.

Terrato137
07-22-2014, 09:19 AM
I heard that they got rid of the range on the bloodhound and gangbuster on the 2.105 to PTS thread.

Lowered the range you mean?

Ruinne
07-22-2014, 09:21 AM
Lowered the range you mean?

Nope, it's a pistol-whipping only weapon now.

In terms of mechanics it's not very powerful, but it makes you feel like a total bad ***.

the reaper
07-22-2014, 09:23 AM
Ya, sorry I worded it wrong. I remember the gangbuster only made it halfway across the warmaster's room, although the guy might have been exaggerating how bad it was. I'm not sure, I guess we will just have to wait for the patch to find out.

Ruinne
07-22-2014, 09:26 AM
Ya, sorry I worded it wrong. I remember the gangbuster only made it halfway across the warmaster's room, although the guy might have been exaggerating how bad it was. I'm not sure, I guess we will just have to wait for the patch to find out.

Forget all that, I'm wanting a mêlée pistol now. Give me a pistol with two attacks: B***h Slap and Punk Buster.

bigguy
07-22-2014, 09:39 AM
PVP is broken in this game and sucks i dont know why anyone plays it and nerfing the bloodhound to satisfy a couple of peoples kd ratio in the worst PVP in the worst game ever is just monumentally stupid. This gun was not OP in PVE the only part of this game that 90% of the poeple who play this game take part in.

This game takes out all the parts that are the most fun and whats left?

Nerf arkforge
Nerf good rewards like the tarr trax crate oj shields
Nerf the bloodhound when its barely out a week

This is why my entire clan has moved on. Constant disconnects and hardfreezes that cant be fixed , Pursuits for emergencies that are broken half the time , Missions with cutscenes that dont work , Pursuits for emergencies that cant be found and the best part of all....Nerfs to everything that makes this game fun .

Best wishes to everyone i met who made this game fun hope to see you in the near future in game that doesnt disconnect you.

Logain
07-22-2014, 09:39 AM
I bought one today and tested it in the daily expert. It killed everything, even me.

Yeah they are fun but hard to control bought one myself and ended up doing a lot of damage to myself.

So according to Snake the Gang Buster and The Blood Hound were nerfed to dust. What was nerfed with the Crimefighter?

the reaper
07-22-2014, 09:48 AM
I think the crime fighter has been ignored like how I ignore my dad.

ConcreteSnake
07-22-2014, 10:45 AM
Yeah they are fun but hard to control bought one myself and ended up doing a lot of damage to myself.

So according to Snake the Gang Buster and The Blood Hound were nerfed to dust. What was nerfed with the Crimefighter?

nothing happened to it, since it doesn't have a lock on/homing function it doesn't affect pvp so it is being left alone.........for now.

the funny part is there are lock on rocket launchers that do 20k+ dmg and kill some people in one hit and are hard to outrun but no one ever talks about those.

CM Kiwibird
07-22-2014, 12:35 PM
Hey everyone. I figured I'd link this here as well, this is a statement from the team (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?168378-2.105-to-PTS&p=1567210&viewfull=1#post1567210) on the changes for the Bloodhound and the Gangbuster, in case you'd like more information on the subject.

KCarver
07-22-2014, 05:38 PM
Well the Gangbuster is pretty useless in PVE before and even more so now, now it's garbage in PVP but at least it kept people on their toes while it lasted, I found it quite easy to avoid and break the lock from it, a dodge or jump at the right time and it whirls away, I got one on day 2 of the release and it was nice to blow up people who run blindly, charging an objective like grandma at a 70% off sale without looking to their sides or a glance behind them every now and then and my scores haven't changed with or without the Gangbuster, now we can all go back to running around blindly until someone using cloak offensively one shots us with a shotgun or a charged sniper point blank.

Nefarious
07-22-2014, 05:51 PM
A word of advice to Trion...

When you make new guns and introduce them to the game that its better off to make them on the weaker side of things. This way they can be buffed up if need be. Players don't like it when you nerf down...even if its something like a 1.5 difference in rate of fire.

Remember... weak side is on the safe side.

SirServed
07-22-2014, 06:01 PM
Well the Gangbuster is pretty useless in PVE before and even more so now, now it's garbage in PVP but at least it kept people on their toes while it lasted, I found it quite easy to avoid and break the lock from it, a dodge or jump at the right time and it whirls away, I got one on day 2 of the release and it was nice to blow up people who run blindly, charging an objective like grandma at a 70% off sale without looking to their sides or a glance behind them every now and then and my scores haven't changed with or without the Gangbuster, now we can all go back to running around blindly until someone using cloak offensively one shots us with a shotgun or a charged sniper point blank.
Where do I start? You were one of the first people to exploit this weapon. You were the one blindly charging your weapon from Cloak, locking on to targets then breaking line of sight before releasing your broken, 1-hit kill detonator. There was no looking to your side or behind you. It was a red flash that came through a solid object and then you died. Also, I find it funny that a cloak user that exploited this weapon bothers to comment about other cloak users and the things they do with cloak. Priceless.

Chump Norris
07-22-2014, 06:10 PM
Horrible changes that came with proof they dont even bother to test the adjustments they make.

Unintentional Crit/Reload nerf would have been noticed by anyone who actually plays the game. Was the "OP" version of the Bloodhound even tested at threat 10?

Bonehead
07-22-2014, 06:14 PM
Horrible changes that came with proof they dont even bother to test the adjustments they make.

Unintentional Crit/Reload nerf would have been noticed by anyone who actually plays the game. Was the "OP" version of the Bloodhound even tested at threat 10?

Really unlikely with how underpopulated the PTS is and how short the test time was.

KCarver
07-22-2014, 06:47 PM
Where do I start? You were one of the first people to exploit this weapon. You were the one blindly charging your weapon from Cloak, locking on to targets then breaking line of sight before releasing your broken, 1-hit kill detonator. There was no looking to your side or behind you. It was a red flash that came through a solid object and then you died. Also, I find it funny that a cloak user that exploited this weapon bothers to comment about other cloak users and the things they do with cloak. Priceless.

Guide to upset PVPers (mostly higher EGO with their best guns and best shields) with using your head:

Gangbuster:
Exploit? Charge gun, lock on, duck under cover, aim and fire around the cover and let it home in hoping is doesn't get obstructed on its way.
Blindly? I wasn't the only one using the gun and I evaded all but four deaths caused by the Gangbuster, I guess looking in the right direction pays off.
It's a manual detonator, so it can pay off waiting after you stick someone with it for them to run into cover or next to someone before detonating, cheap? Tactics, and everybody hates it.
Using cloak to change position or to evade is an entirely different matter and running into someone in the process is just an opportunity.

SirServed
07-22-2014, 08:56 PM
Guide to upset PVPers (mostly higher EGO with their best guns and best shields) with using your head:

Gangbuster:
Exploit? Charge gun, lock on, duck under cover, aim and fire around the cover and let it home in hoping is doesn't get obstructed on its way.
Blindly? I wasn't the only one using the gun and I evaded all but four deaths caused by the Gangbuster, I guess looking in the right direction pays off.
It's a manual detonator, so it can pay off waiting after you stick someone with it for them to run into cover or next to someone before detonating, cheap? Tactics, and everybody hates it.
Using cloak to change position or to evade is an entirely different matter and running into someone in the process is just an opportunity.
Except it doesn't aim around the cover. It passes right through any objects between you and your target. Try a lock on rocket launcher on a target while doing that, then your Gang Buster.

Are you even aware that the projectiles it fires will travel through "obstructions" while locking on or are you just trolling?

Dragon420x
07-22-2014, 09:30 PM
I just wish the winers would atop *****ing like little cabbies I am almost 4500 ego and I still get killed quickly.to one shot with the older weapons you don't see me running to trion because I'm butt hurt no I get better **** and try again the little babies are going to ruin this game

Darien
07-22-2014, 09:41 PM
the funny part is there are lock on rocket launchers that do 20k+ dmg and kill some people in one hit and are hard to outrun but no one ever talks about those.

In PVP, you get scaled to the EGO of the highest person participating. If a rocket launcher is doing 20k+ damage, you get scaled high enough to not get one shot by 20k damage. Maybe stop wearing a 20 rating Von Bach Industries Defense Screen when PVPing against max ego players.

Chocolatelover67
07-23-2014, 01:35 AM
So what the hell the gang buster has been nerfed...... All because people complained smh