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ryleb89
07-18-2014, 11:24 AM
You know what really grinds my gears? Extractions during War Masters, here I am trying to help my fellow Ark Hunters by taking time out of my busy shooting the War Master in the face schedule and poof you extract. How about we lock the two trapped doors after the War Master is released so if you're stupid enough to extract you get locked out, just like in any other raid, if you die and extract/respawn etc. you are locked out of the fight until is is over of failed. You have a timer before extraction for a reason. Use it, or pay the price of sitting out and waiting till its over.

bigguy
07-18-2014, 11:28 AM
When this instance first started over six months ago it was the general belief that stopping from shooting to help someone was a waste of time when you should be killing the WM , The more people laying on the floor the less damage being done. Alot of people still go by that belief but there are also those who dont want to extract because of the possibility of the 5 min loading screen. This is still something that everyone cannot agree on.

SirServed
07-18-2014, 11:36 AM
You know what really grinds my gears? Extractions during War Masters, here I am trying to help my fellow Ark Hunters by taking time out of my busy shooting the War Master in the face schedule and poof you extract. How about we lock the two trapped doors after the War Master is released so if you're stupid enough to extract you get locked out, just like in any other raid, if you die and extract/respawn etc. you are locked out of the fight until is is over of failed. You have a timer before extraction for a reason. Use it, or pay the price of sitting out and waiting till its over.
You must not do a lot of damage. This fight is a timed DPS race. If you want revives, do it upstairs during trash or go fight a Dark Matter Monolith.

cmpowell
07-18-2014, 11:37 AM
floor crawling is a waste of resources. If you came in thinking you weren't lagging enough to dc then you should be extracting. so the dps can be kept up and not lessened by floor crawlers. this used to be the only practice when the leader board was based on damage and not score. When the score board was implemented is when ppl stopped extracting because of the score penalty and thus why we ended up with an abundance of floor crawlers. If you don't immediately extract, it's been more than 5 secs, and nobodies reviving you your finger should be holding the X button down

Deunan
07-18-2014, 11:42 AM
On the PC servers there's nothing to debate. If you don't self-revive or immediately extract you're not using proper tactics. If you're attempting to revive players you're not using proper tactics.

When you stop to revive a player the group DPS drops. Contrary to the false assertions of players that advocate reviving, it does not just take a few seconds away from damaging the Warmaster. The revive itself takes a few seconds but you immediately abandon target acquisition, take additional time to move to the player and even more time to reacquire your target which may be on the other side of the chamber by then. This is all assuming you don't die during the attempt, something that happens all too often and can start creating a domino effect. That's hundreds of thousands of points in lost damage.

If you don't spend time reviving a player and the player extracts immediately then you keep that lost damage but on top of that the downed player minimizes their lost damage by not crawling around wasting time looking for a revive. Long reload times may be an issue on the other servers but on the PC servers extraction occurs in seconds (less time than a revive takes) and the player can make up for lost damage by restocking ammo on the way down and by immediately taking advantage of their ability to use Overcharge and lay down a spike, which are fully recharged due to the extraction.

DeadEye68
07-18-2014, 11:45 AM
Reviving not only doubles the amount of players dealing no damage, but also increases the chances for more people getting downed. None of these increases odds for success.
Preventing rez rushing -read extracting and returning to the fight- will turn party wipe into the most common cause for WM failure. Timers already dramatically reduced chances for random groups, what you're advocating will drop them down to virtually zero.

Overtkill21
07-18-2014, 11:46 AM
Crawling around for a minute waiting for the extraction timer to run out is what the OP is advocating? In a 6 minute fight where DPS is king?

LOL

Good stuff.

ironcladtrash
07-18-2014, 11:46 AM
When this instance first started over six months ago it was the general belief that stopping from shooting to help someone was a waste of time when you should be killing the WM , The more people laying on the floor the less damage being done. Alot of people still go by that belief but there are also those who dont want to extract because of the possibility of the 5 min loading screen. This is still something that everyone cannot agree on.

Platforms are a good point and distinction to make. I can see on consoles especially the PS3 reviving others might be a good idea. On the PC extracting is the better option.

Overtkill21
07-18-2014, 11:49 AM
Platforms are a good point and distinction to make. I can see on consoles especially the PS3 reviving others might be a good idea. On the PC extracting is the better option.

Nah, even on PS3 reviving is a bad proposition. The only proper way to enter a WM is on a fresh connection on the PS3 in which case extraction will be just fine - otherwise just be a general badass and don't get downed - an extraction on a not-so-fresh PS3 connection is a 50/50 proposition, maybe 60/40 if it's just a little not-so-fresh.

PC & X-Box ever get that not-so-fresh connection feeling? LOL

ryleb89
07-18-2014, 11:51 AM
If you Extract you should not be allowed back down to fight that is not how raids are supposed to work, I have fought tougher mobs with fewer people, reviving is part of the process, yes it may slow down the DPS but it can easily be made up, extracting on consoles takes just as being revived majority of the time. The fact that you can extract in the middle of a battle and come back perfectly healthy is absolute rubbish and should not be happening that is not how raids should be setup. You die you should be locked out, no ifs ands or buts about it.

DeadEye68
07-18-2014, 11:51 AM
PC & X-Box ever get that not-so-fresh connection feeling? LOL

I have yet to experience a failed extraction during a WM fight.

TTOWNZ DIRTIEST
07-18-2014, 11:52 AM
WAR MASTER FIGHTERS WHO KILL THE WARMASTER DONT CRAWL PERIOD!!! If you have ever killed or want to ever kill a Monkey again, you EXTRACT fill your ammo and drop down an fight again....ONE "SUNBATHER" Crawling , cause two or more to stop shooting and then GUESS WHAT?? HE doesn't die!!! True Monkey Killa's will tell you too if you crawl more than 3-4 secs ....EXTRACT !!!!!!

ironcladtrash
07-18-2014, 11:54 AM
Nah, even on PS3 reviving is a bad proposition. The only proper way to enter a WM is on a fresh connection on the PS3 in which case extraction will be just fine - otherwise just be a general badass and don't get downed - an extraction on a not-so-fresh PS3 connection is a 50/50 proposition, maybe 60/40 if it's just a little not-so-fresh.

PC & X-Box ever get that not-so-fresh connection feeling? LOL

For the most part the PC connections are fine, which is why we always say to extract. There had been an increase in lag immediately following F2P but it has gotten better.

Although any more I barely ever get downed by the WM but I am ego 5800+ and so that helps.

TTOWNZ DIRTIEST
07-18-2014, 11:54 AM
DPS is King and the way the MONKEY'S HEALTH has got JACCCCCCCCKED UP !!!! Along with low ego noobs trying to crack b4 3mins.... it takes 30+ ppl now to kill.... I have basicly went MONKEY COLD TURKEY FOR A FEW DAYS SINCE THIS BS!!!

cmpowell
07-18-2014, 11:57 AM
If you Extract you should not be allowed back down to fight that is not how raids are supposed to work, I have fought tougher mobs with fewer people, reviving is part of the process, yes it may slow down the DPS but it can easily be made up, extracting on consoles takes just as being revived majority of the time. The fact that you can extract in the middle of a battle and come back perfectly healthy is absolute rubbish and should not be happening that is not how raids should be setup. You die you should be locked out, no ifs ands or buts about it.

as trick has said this is not a typical/traditional raid battle which is why you cant group large amounts of ppl before the raid. Your other game logic doesn't apply here

Bubbie
07-18-2014, 11:57 AM
.................

ryleb89
07-18-2014, 11:59 AM
those who have fallen from the monster, do not falter, as i will be there for you. I will be your savior to bring you back up on your feet to fight. Hit by a bomb? I will be there! Slapped by the warmaster? I will be there! I cannot stand to watch my brethren die and really, who could? And for them to force to extract their life is the biggest insult to human morality as that is the same as suicide. Those who forsake their fellow ark hunters lives in allowing them to perish is even more of a monster than the warmaster. Perhaps you ark hunters were once good and honest people, however it seems once your feet touch the floors of the chambers, you become corrupt; fallen into a state of depravity.



My thoughts exactly!!

DeadEye68
07-18-2014, 12:01 PM
The issue here is game design. The way WM fights play out, they penalize you for showing solidarity. Your intentions may be honorable, unfortunately you're encouraging failure bound behavior.

Deunan
07-18-2014, 12:02 PM
If you Extract you should not be allowed back down to fight that is not how raids are supposed to work, I have fought tougher mobs with fewer people, reviving is part of the process, yes it may slow down the DPS but it can easily be made up, extracting on consoles takes just as being revived majority of the time. The fact that you can extract in the middle of a battle and come back perfectly healthy is absolute rubbish and should not be happening that is not how raids should be setup. You die you should be locked out, no ifs ands or buts about it.That's your opinion. There is plenty of room for difference of opinion on the matter. The Warmaster lacks the most basic raiding tools to facilitate coordinated effort by the players. It's been implemented in a very anti-raid manner so I see no merit in an argument for a change in extraction mechanics just for this one event.

Different games address the equivalent of extraction differently. This game has always been extremely lenient about penalties associated with extraction. Based on your forum join date you have been playing long enough to remember when 180 scrip was the only penalty for extraction, which is pretty laughable compared to a lot of other MMO's. Players are already complaining about the score penaltiy for extraction. I think you'll find yourself fighting a wave of resistance if you try to advocate for imposition of more penalties for extraction.

mr sinister
07-18-2014, 12:03 PM
ya know what why don't we rename the whole thing "worm master" hand out huge amounts of score for ground humping and failing, hell while your at it why not toss the big ape completely.
jezus effing christ on a rubber chicken has this event not already been butchered enough, if ya can't stay on your feet during warmaster, ya propably shouldn't be in there, dont get me wrong i'll Always and everywhere will help out players with revive in every event,just not in warmaster, the objective still is to beat the darn ape
seriously this the best suggestion you can come up with?

taco man 67
07-18-2014, 12:03 PM
trick is that u trolling us? come on we wont be mad

TTOWNZ DIRTIEST
07-18-2014, 12:04 PM
Ryleb-- is this you TRICK??? PLEASE STOP TROLLING....LMAO I AM ABOUT TO PEE ON MYSELF!!

ironcladtrash
07-18-2014, 12:04 PM
My thoughts exactly!!

I think he was being sarcastic or should have been. At an Arkfall or siege I will go out of my way and look for the downed players and go revive you when no one else is. But the WM is a timed DPS race and you loose too much DPS reviving. So what Deunan said is absolutely correct for the WM especially on PC.


On the PC servers there's nothing to debate. If you don't self-revive or immediately extract you're not using proper tactics. If you're attempting to revive players you're not using proper tactics.

When you stop to revive a player the group DPS drops. Contrary to the false assertions of players that advocate reviving, it does not just take a few seconds away from damaging the Warmaster. The revive itself takes a few seconds but you immediately abandon target acquisition, take additional time to move to the player and even more time to reacquire your target which may be on the other side of the chamber by then. This is all assuming you don't die during the attempt, something that happens all too often and can start creating a domino effect. That's hundreds of thousands of points in lost damage.

If you don't spend time reviving a player and the player extracts immediately then you keep that lost damage but on top of that the downed player minimizes their lost damage by not crawling around wasting time looking for a revive. Long reload times may be an issue on the other servers but on the PC servers extraction occurs in seconds (less time than a revive takes) and the player can make up for lost damage by restocking ammo on the way down and by immediately taking advantage of their ability to use Overcharge and lay down a spike, which are fully recharged due to the extraction.

ryleb89
07-18-2014, 12:05 PM
as trick has said this is not a typical/traditional raid battle which is why you cant group large amounts of ppl before the raid. Your other game logic doesn't apply here

The fact that you openly admit to believing a man who told us we were wrong and his way was the right way... then proceeded to get beat to a pulp using his "ways" is not helping your case.

lukeskyw
07-18-2014, 12:05 PM
On the PC servers there's nothing to debate. If you don't self-revive or immediately extract you're not using proper tactics. If you're attempting to revive players you're not using proper tactics.

When you stop to revive a player the group DPS drops. Contrary to the false assertions of players that advocate reviving, it does not just take a few seconds away from damaging the Warmaster. The revive itself takes a few seconds but you immediately abandon target acquisition, take additional time to move to the player and even more time to reacquire your target which may be on the other side of the chamber by then. This is all assuming you don't die during the attempt, something that happens all too often and can start creating a domino effect. That's hundreds of thousands of points in lost damage.

If you don't spend time reviving a player and the player extracts immediately then you keep that lost damage but on top of that the downed player minimizes their lost damage by not crawling around wasting time looking for a revive. Long reload times may be an issue on the other servers but on the PC servers extraction occurs in seconds (less time than a revive takes) and the player can make up for lost damage by restocking ammo on the way down and by immediately taking advantage of their ability to use Overcharge and lay down a spike, which are fully recharged due to the extraction.

nothing to add.

OP is wrong, extraction is mandatory during the warmaster fight.

dramaQkarri
07-18-2014, 12:08 PM
If this event had been a properly designed raid boss, then yes extracting would be the wrong thing to do. It's not. So go ahead and be the reviving martyr - but we can all testify that strategy just doesn't work here.

And *whoops* my ignore list just grew by two.

ryleb89
07-18-2014, 12:11 PM
if this event had been a properly designed raid boss, then yes extracting would be the wrong thing to do. It's not. So go ahead and be the reviving martyr - but we can all testify that strategy just doesn't work here.

And *whoops* my ignore list just grew by two.

oh no i've been ignored someone save me quick!! I need backup!!

Bubbie
07-18-2014, 12:11 PM
...............

ryleb89
07-18-2014, 12:11 PM
I think he was being sarcastic or should have been. At an Arkfall or siege I will go out of my way and look for the downed players and go revive you when no one else is. But the WM is a timed DPS race and you loose too much DPS reviving. So what Deunan said is absolutely correct for the WM especially on PC.

Yeah, I know, you think I was born yesterday?

ryleb89
07-18-2014, 12:12 PM
it appears the corruption has swallowed the hearts of some ark hunters. They are in complete and utter darkness for no light can ever purify. No matter, i will not be allured by such evil and will continue to revive my fellow ark hunters both, good and evil.

Amen, don't worry my fallen brothers and sisters i will still be there for you in your moment of need!!

lukeskyw
07-18-2014, 12:16 PM
It appears the corruption has swallowed the hearts of some ark hunters. They are in complete and utter darkness for no light can ever purify. No matter, I will not be allured by such evil and will continue to revive my fellow ark hunters both, good and evil. To watch over your brethren crawl desperately, breathing their final breaths. To walk over them like they don't exist; as if they are nothing more than ants. I ask of this: do you ark hunters not feel pain or misery? Maybe you guys should be replaced by the Warmaster, as the raid boss.

no we don't.... because ours toons are videogame characters !
If you want to RP, juste don't do it during a warmaster event (timed dps event, nothing more).

DSW
07-18-2014, 12:17 PM
sometimes you actually can go and revive someone, but it needs two reqs - first, the downed player is right in front of you, second - warmonkey armor is on OR it just jumped from the wall and running somewhere so that no big DPS loss will happen.

Overtkill21
07-18-2014, 12:18 PM
OP & Bubbie - ya'll go right ahead and fight the ignorant fight.

You have had the logic of this fight laid before you in multiple ways by multiple vets - do as you will.

ryleb89
07-18-2014, 12:22 PM
AM I TRICK?

I am not, nor will I ever be that sorry excuse of a human being, though if he needs reviving, despite our differences I will bring him to his feet.

Holy Bahamut3
07-18-2014, 12:43 PM
Look Trick, a couple of your "majority" are asking for additional "fixes". You should listen to them an screw the WM instance completely for the rest of us.

Good luck with the community blowback,

Your friendly neighborhood Holy B.

Bonehead
07-18-2014, 12:48 PM
If you Extract you should not be allowed back down to fight that is not how raids are supposed to work, I have fought tougher mobs with fewer people, reviving is part of the process, yes it may slow down the DPS but it can easily be made up, extracting on consoles takes just as being revived majority of the time. The fact that you can extract in the middle of a battle and come back perfectly healthy is absolute rubbish and should not be happening that is not how raids should be setup. You die you should be locked out, no ifs ands or buts about it.

Trick? Trick is that you?

dramaQkarri
07-18-2014, 12:53 PM
OP & Bubbie - ya'll go right ahead and fight the ignorant fight.

You have had the logic of this fight laid before you in multiple ways by multiple vets - do as you will.

It's lovely that they've found each other though. <3

ryleb89
07-18-2014, 12:58 PM
OP & Bubbie - ya'll go right ahead and fight the ignorant fight.

You have had the logic of this fight laid before you in multiple ways by multiple vets - do as you will.

One of those ways should be picking up your fallen brothers, if you don't you are selfish but I will still save your life!

dramaQkarri
07-18-2014, 01:00 PM
I would now like to see a gif that illustrates missing the point.

N3gativeCr33p
07-18-2014, 01:06 PM
You know what really grinds my gears? Extractions during War Masters, here I am trying to help my fellow Ark Hunters by taking time out of my busy shooting the War Master in the face schedule and poof you extract. How about we lock the two trapped doors after the War Master is released so if you're stupid enough to extract you get locked out, just like in any other raid, if you die and extract/respawn etc. you are locked out of the fight until is is over of failed. You have a timer before extraction for a reason. Use it, or pay the price of sitting out and waiting till its over.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A5t5_O8hdA

Bonehead
07-18-2014, 01:10 PM
It's lovely that they've found each other though. <3

Yep like my first ex wife always said, every pot has its lid.

Logain
07-18-2014, 01:12 PM
as trick has said this is not a typical/traditional raid battle which is why you cant group large amounts of ppl before the raid. Your other game logic doesn't apply here

+1^

I think TRION has pretty much told us that Warmaster is NOT a raid instance by not allowing to form a raid party (or at least one bigger than four people). It can be a timed instance in which I wait awhile for people to drop ark spikes to call the arkbreak. But not really a raid.

Reviving is a strategy. It does not help kill the Warmaster. Though it's been a few days since I have seen the Warmaster killed. Everyone is going for score on PC-NA. But honestly have not attempted one (or been invited to one) in the last two days and probably won't do any this weekend. There are more efficient uses of time to get arkforge/keys/scrip if score is all that people are going for to get that loot.

N3gativeCr33p
07-18-2014, 01:13 PM
If the WM was a legitimate raid instance, then it's the worst example of one that I've ever seen.

A full group of four people does not make for great results in a raid. Eight would've been a better number, IMHO.

Deunan
07-18-2014, 01:17 PM
One of those ways should be picking up your fallen brothers, if you don't you are selfish but I will still save your life!

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104431/2956552-4804085599-Point.jpg

Bonehead
07-18-2014, 01:20 PM
I would now like to see a gif that illustrates missing the point.

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/giphy_zps9c37ecf6.gif

Mudturtle Jones
07-18-2014, 01:28 PM
Amen, don't worry my fallen brothers and sisters i will still be there for you in your moment of need!!

To be there in my time of need you'll need to double-down on your damage to the WM while I extract

3rdpig
07-18-2014, 01:29 PM
No one will need a revive once I show up with my mighty Spanner Protector! Rejoice, now we can all race to the bottom of the DPS pile.

The new scoring system is just like progressive math! 2+2=5? Who cares, as long as we feel good about the answer!

RAGEFIGHTER
07-18-2014, 01:54 PM
You know what really grinds my gears? Extractions during War Masters, here I am trying to help my fellow Ark Hunters by taking time out of my busy shooting the War Master in the face schedule and poof you extract. How about we lock the two trapped doors after the War Master is released so if you're stupid enough to extract you get locked out, just like in any other raid, if you die and extract/respawn etc. you are locked out of the fight until is is over of failed. You have a timer before extraction for a reason. Use it, or pay the price of sitting out and waiting till its over.

sory cant say what i think about you trion warned mee alot for saying ppl whoo they are now i wish trions idea come thru you culd fight against wm alone i bet you will get alot score .....(.... means something bad even worse then shtako) !!!

Zhedda
07-18-2014, 02:31 PM
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/104431/2956552-4804085599-Point.jpg

I'm optimistic here. If gravity kicks in, the point may hit him.

Z0mb1E
07-18-2014, 02:39 PM
When this instance first started over six months ago it was the general belief that stopping from shooting to help someone was a waste of time when you should be killing the WM , The more people laying on the floor the less damage being done. Alot of people still go by that belief but there are also those who dont want to extract because of the possibility of the 5 min loading screen. This is still something that everyone cannot agree on.

True but under the new format of the event you should always stop to pick up another dead player, further more you should give them a big hug, look them square in the eye and inform them "it's all going to be okay" too.

Maida
07-18-2014, 03:40 PM
+1^

I think TRION has pretty much told us that Warmaster is NOT a raid instance by not allowing to form a raid party (or at least one bigger than four people). It can be a timed instance in which I wait awhile for people to drop ark spikes to call the arkbreak. But not really a raid.

Reviving is a strategy. It does not help kill the Warmaster. Though it's been a few days since I have seen the Warmaster killed. Everyone is going for score on PC-NA. But honestly have not attempted one (or been invited to one) in the last two days and probably won't do any this weekend. There are more efficient uses of time to get arkforge/keys/scrip if score is all that people are going for to get that loot.

I though it was funny in the live feed Trick said it isn't a raid but even with the timer you can beat it if you coordinate ahead of time and gather enough people and all plan how to get in with dcing. hmmm....starting to sound like a raid. But we don't get the tools to do it properly.

Mushbeeguy
07-18-2014, 03:54 PM
I though it was funny in the live feed Trick said it isn't a raid but even with the timer you can beat it if you coordinate ahead of time and gather enough people and all plan how to get in with dcing. hmmm....starting to sound like a raid. But we don't get the tools to do it properly.

Actually I suspect it's a ploy to stop us from launching majors to save on server resources.

ironcladtrash
07-18-2014, 04:31 PM
I'm optimistic here. If gravity kicks in, the point may hit him.

ROFL, holy **** that is funny and I am totally re using that.

Deunan
07-18-2014, 04:33 PM
Actually I suspect it's a ploy to stop us from launching majors to save on server resources.You may meant this as sarcasm but that doesn't necessarily save server resources. Running a Major Arkbreak probably doesn't use more resources than running 4 Minor Arkbreaks and Minor Arkbreaks are will probably be more common if Major ones become less common. I use my battery spikes solely to create Minor Arkbreaks now.

Magickats242
07-18-2014, 04:52 PM
Be right back, gotta go extract...

http://www.catchannel.com/images/articles/cat-litterbox-toxoplasmosis.jpg

konstantinov
07-18-2014, 05:53 PM
I extract in anything I do. Waiting around for a revive is selfish and a waste of time.

Iceberg
07-18-2014, 05:58 PM
I like to use self medicated perk just in case I do get downed I can self revive, when I get downed again my self revive is already loaded and ready to be used again. Most of the time I might get downed just once in the fight because of my ego level and blast shield perk.

Punisher Illinois Blue
07-18-2014, 06:37 PM
You know what really grinds my gears? Extractions during War Masters, here I am trying to help my fellow Ark Hunters by taking time out of my busy shooting the War Master in the face schedule and poof you extract. How about we lock the two trapped doors after the War Master is released so if you're stupid enough to extract you get locked out, just like in any other raid, if you die and extract/respawn etc. you are locked out of the fight until is is over of failed. You have a timer before extraction for a reason. Use it, or pay the price of sitting out and waiting till its over.

I am sure someone has told you why you should extract, I like your idea by the way about having one life in the fight agianst the sapphre weapon.

Despite what you will see there reasons and times you should help people up.

You should help people up when you can't shoot the part of his body that has been picked as the target, AND he is moving in such a way you can't hit the targeted spot. Despite what some people may say he can out manuver players esp if you have a bad download speed.

ryleb89
07-18-2014, 06:46 PM
I'm optimistic here. If gravity kicks in, the point may hit him.

Gravity will prevail, its not like I'm posting from a secret moon base, though that would be pretty sweet, I gotta look into one of those.

ryleb89
07-18-2014, 06:51 PM
True but under the new format of the event you should always stop to pick up another dead player, further more you should give them a big hug, look them square in the eye and inform them "it's all going to be okay" too.

See is that so hard can't we all just love each other and give them our support especially when they are down on the ground in agonizing pain, I feel obligated to help, no one should have to take there own life because they got steam rolled, punched, or shot in the face by a giant big ball(s) of death, its just not fair.

Punisher Illinois Blue
07-18-2014, 06:52 PM
You must not do a lot of damage. This fight is a timed DPS race. If you want revives, do it upstairs during trash or go fight a Dark Matter Monolith.

They are new to the game so how about you be more polite too the rookie -_-

ryleb89
07-18-2014, 07:01 PM
They are new to the game so how about you be more polite too the rookie -_-

I'm not new I pre-ordered the Collectors edition, I'm a Veteran Player and I am definitely not one of those stupid lock breakers "that are the majority of players." I just play because all of the butt hurt brings me enjoyment and makes me feel better about myself.

Bubbie
07-18-2014, 07:21 PM
...............

UncleSpider77
07-18-2014, 07:25 PM
I like to use self medicated perk just in case I do get downed I can self revive, when I get downed again my self revive is already loaded and ready to be used again. Most of the time I might get downed just once in the fight because of my ego level and blast shield perk.

The Winnah!

ryleb89
07-18-2014, 10:09 PM
My dear friend Ryle, these corrupted ark hunters are beyond our help. Let us stop fighting with words, since it only seems to add fuel to the fire. Their minds are so twisted, that the only thoughts running in their heads is "DPS! DPS! DPS!". It is a sad thought, but there is nothing we can do. It is not the fault of the timed locks, nor the developer, Tricks or even the Warmaster itself. To put it bluntly these ark hunters are viciously possessed by the seven deadly sins and their radical comments make that clear.

You are correct we must ward them of these sins by reviving them until they are cleansed of all these sins, I know my mission now brother thank you for leading me to the light so that I may have clarity.

PTR47
07-18-2014, 10:34 PM
It appears the corruption has swallowed the hearts of some ark hunters. They are in complete and utter darkness for no light can ever purify. No matter, I will not be allured by such evil and will continue to revive my fellow ark hunters both good and evil. To watch over your brethren crawl desperately, breathing their final breaths. To walk over them like they don't exist; as if they are nothing more than ants. I ask of this: do you ark hunters not feel pain or misery? If not, then maybe you ark hunters should be replaced by the Warmaster.

lol

10char

taco man 67
07-19-2014, 02:01 AM
Those who have fallen from the monster, do not falter, as I will be there for you. I will be your savior to bring you back up on your feet to fight. Hit by a bomb? I will be there! Slapped by the Warmaster? I WILL be there! I cannot stand to watch my brethren die and really, who could? And for them to force to extract their life is the biggest insult to human morality as that is the same as suicide. Those who forsake their fellow ark hunters lives in allowing them to perish is even more of a monster than the Warmaster. Perhaps you ark hunters were once good and honest people, however it seems once your feet touch the floors of the chambers, you become corrupt; fallen into a state of depravity.you do not get my cheese

Slayer Slayn
07-19-2014, 02:23 AM
Those who have fallen from the monster, do not falter, as I will be there for you. I will be your savior to bring you back up on your feet to fight. Hit by a bomb? I will be there! Slapped by the Warmaster? I WILL be there! I cannot stand to watch my brethren die and really, who could? And for them to force to extract their life is the biggest insult to human morality as that is the same as suicide. Those who forsake their fellow ark hunters lives in allowing them to perish is even more of a monster than the Warmaster. Perhaps you ark hunters were once good and honest people, however it seems once your feet touch the floors of the chambers, you become corrupt; fallen into a state of depravity.

Istoppedf reading after page 2 because its 4 AM where I'm at and aint nobody got time for that. I sincerely hope this is sarcasm....really(it reads like heavy sarcasm but feels like you actually believe it).

Slayer Slayn
07-19-2014, 02:31 AM
I like to use self medicated perk just in case I do get downed I can self revive, when I get downed again my self revive is already loaded and ready to be used again. Most of the time I might get downed just once in the fight because of my ego level and blast shield perk.

Holy crap I'm not alone.....(anyone who has played the warmonkey more than twice should have figured this out)[if they have a high enough ego to have unlocked them yet that is]

jackdaws_1999
07-19-2014, 03:41 AM
The following rules will help the OP better help the community at large. These are straight from the forum post:
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?166859-Post-Patch-2.1-Warmaster-Guide

For ease of access, and because the OP obviously doesnít read anything else on the forum, here they are almost in their entirety:

1.) The Warmaster is great for levelling weapons. Good weapons include BMG and infectors, go nuts. They're both auto aim weapons and as such are easy to use and level up.

2.) No time to coordinate a location so just shoot everywhere, especially armour plates. When armour plates are down for one location move to another, this should be worth a lot of personal points. Don't bother to coordinate the same spot as others. The point is your individual score/enjoyment there is no time for a lofty goal such as actually winning.

3.) If you're crawling / down don't extract that costs a lot of personal points, wait for a pickup. People trying to kill the Warmaster instead of picking you up are being selfish, the goal is your personal points/gains, not to kill the Warmaster.

4.) Volge weapons are pretty and fun to use, other people may complain it blinds them, but this game is for you not them, just have fun.

5.) Most importantly if the entire room is messaging you to play a certain way then you are encouraged to ignore them, this game isn't meant for coordination or social interaction, if it was Trion would have put in raiding tools long ago.

6.) If your friends have been disconnected due to the awesome sauce servers, ignore them, they obviously donít want to help you get your personal score, so remove them from your friends list.

7.) Please, kill all the volge in the top floor as quickly as possible, this adds to your personal score, and gets the warmaster out quicker.

8.) Use whatever perks keep you alive the longest, get rid of all damage based perks, they donít help.

9.) Do Not Use Spikes or stims, they cost script, and since script is SO very important in the game, you want MILLIONS of them... donít worry about arkforge, you can Buy that from the store.

10.) Be rude to everyone who has played the game longer than you, they obviously donít know what they are doing, ignore them, you are Rambo after all.

11.) Use a sword, you look badass swinging it.

12.) Turn off those annoying damage numbers, they mean nothing, and distract you from looking at how pretty the game looks.

13.) Don't call any friends. That way you can get a higher place on the scoreboard. The warmaster is not going to die anyway. In fact, donít invite anyone other than a few randoms who donít speak your language or any common language other than 'shoot', this way you ensure a fail, and get Maximum teamwork points.

14.) When the warmaster jumps up on the wall, stop shooting him, work on shooting the Volge he summons, they give you extra points, and may drop you if left to their own devices, thus costing you valuable personal score

15.) Do Not Use a nano based weapon of any kind, this boosts the score of those around you. Only use Non nano, some other fool will cause nano effects, and thus give you your Opportunist Points

16.) If the warmaster is chasing you, make sure to try and stick to the largest group of people, this ensures that the warmaster has his weak spots hidden from the general crowd. This ensures the warmaster stays alive longer. This also ensures that those around you are dropped, giving you ample opportunity to earn revive points. It also ensures that they lose points and puts you higher on the leader board.

17.) When the teamwork bonus maxes out, whip out those bmgs and go for medic points, the shield from healing with the bmg should leave other players blinded causing them to take more damage that they canít see coming, netting you even more medic points

Please announce the fact that you are following these rules when you enter a war master, that way it gives everyone who is near you the chance to tea ba... adjust their strategy based on your Expertise.

ryleb89
07-19-2014, 09:15 AM
The following rules will help the OP better help the community at large. These are straight from the forum post:
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?166859-Post-Patch-2.1-Warmaster-Guide

For ease of access, and because the OP obviously doesn’t read anything else on the forum, here they are almost in their entirety:

1.) The Warmaster is great for levelling weapons. Good weapons include BMG and infectors, go nuts. They're both auto aim weapons and as such are easy to use and level up.

2.) No time to coordinate a location so just shoot everywhere, especially armour plates. When armour plates are down for one location move to another, this should be worth a lot of personal points. Don't bother to coordinate the same spot as others. The point is your individual score/enjoyment there is no time for a lofty goal such as actually winning.

3.) If you're crawling / down don't extract that costs a lot of personal points, wait for a pickup. People trying to kill the Warmaster instead of picking you up are being selfish, the goal is your personal points/gains, not to kill the Warmaster.

4.) Volge weapons are pretty and fun to use, other people may complain it blinds them, but this game is for you not them, just have fun.

5.) Most importantly if the entire room is messaging you to play a certain way then you are encouraged to ignore them, this game isn't meant for coordination or social interaction, if it was Trion would have put in raiding tools long ago.

6.) If your friends have been disconnected due to the awesome sauce servers, ignore them, they obviously don’t want to help you get your personal score, so remove them from your friends list.

7.) Please, kill all the volge in the top floor as quickly as possible, this adds to your personal score, and gets the warmaster out quicker.

8.) Use whatever perks keep you alive the longest, get rid of all damage based perks, they don’t help.

9.) Do Not Use Spikes or stims, they cost script, and since script is SO very important in the game, you want MILLIONS of them... don’t worry about arkforge, you can Buy that from the store.

10.) Be rude to everyone who has played the game longer than you, they obviously don’t know what they are doing, ignore them, you are Rambo after all.

11.) Use a sword, you look badass swinging it.

12.) Turn off those annoying damage numbers, they mean nothing, and distract you from looking at how pretty the game looks.

13.) Don't call any friends. That way you can get a higher place on the scoreboard. The warmaster is not going to die anyway. In fact, don’t invite anyone other than a few randoms who don’t speak your language or any common language other than 'shoot', this way you ensure a fail, and get Maximum teamwork points.

14.) When the warmaster jumps up on the wall, stop shooting him, work on shooting the Volge he summons, they give you extra points, and may drop you if left to their own devices, thus costing you valuable personal score

15.) Do Not Use a nano based weapon of any kind, this boosts the score of those around you. Only use Non nano, some other fool will cause nano effects, and thus give you your Opportunist Points

16.) If the warmaster is chasing you, make sure to try and stick to the largest group of people, this ensures that the warmaster has his weak spots hidden from the general crowd. This ensures the warmaster stays alive longer. This also ensures that those around you are dropped, giving you ample opportunity to earn revive points. It also ensures that they lose points and puts you higher on the leader board.

17.) When the teamwork bonus maxes out, whip out those bmgs and go for medic points, the shield from healing with the bmg should leave other players blinded causing them to take more damage that they can’t see coming, netting you even more medic points

Please announce the fact that you are following these rules when you enter a war master, that way it gives everyone who is near you the chance to tea ba... adjust their strategy based on your Expertise.

OMG whoever wrote those rules is a genius, my favorite rule is number 3, don't commit suicide that's bad, wait for someone to save you and quit being selfish.

Iceberg
07-19-2014, 09:20 AM
OMG whoever wrote those rules is a genius, my favorite rule is number 3, don't commit suicide that's bad, wait for someone to save you and quit being selfish.

I believe trick wrote them.

Drusus
07-19-2014, 09:27 AM
On the PC servers there's nothing to debate. If you don't self-revive or immediately extract you're not using proper tactics. If you're attempting to revive players you're not using proper tactics.

To my mind, this statement, if deemed 'true' (no disrespect to you Deunan, speaking purely analytically here), is precisely what illustrates what is spectacularly wrong with the WM fight.

I am, bluntly, not a fan of it. I do not personally believe it is well designed or the current implementation does not effectively manifest the intended design.

Any battle that is structured so finely as to actively negate, punish or discourage player to player assistance behaviour is a bad structure, in my opinion, and counter to the Defiance principle of always being happy another player has shown up to help. Given how scaling currently affects this battle on top of this and magnifies the need for a raw DPS stream over actually intelligently using our tools against various tactical events, further illustrates what's amiss here to me.

I think the argument you make holds considerable weight Deunan.

I think that's precisely what's wrong with the scenario at hand.

This is of course just my 2 bits on the subject, other views will of course vary. :)

hiban
07-19-2014, 09:57 AM
To my mind, this statement, if deemed 'true' (no disrespect to you Deunan, speaking purely analytically here), is precisely what illustrates what is spectacularly wrong with the WM fight

The causes of this tactics being necessary are 2:

- The warmaster has an enormous amount of health.
- You must kill the WM before the 7 minute timer goes to zero.

Combine those 2 facts, and you will find that the best tactic to beat the WM is to do the maximum amount of damage in the less possible time.
Therefore, anything that is not "damaging the WM the most you can" is a bad tactic. That includes healing, using low DPS weapons, reviving people, or waiting for revive instead of extracting.

The only way of avoiding the need of those tactics, is to remove at least one of the facts stated above.
Either you nerf the WM health, or you remove the 7 minute timer.

Iceberg
07-19-2014, 09:59 AM
The causes of this tactics being necessary are 2:

- The warmaster has an enormous amount of health.
- You must kill the WM before the 7 minute timer goes to zero.

Combine those 2 facts, and you will find that the best tactic to beat the WM is to do the maximum amount of damage in the less possible time.
Therefore, anything that is not "damaging the WM the most you can" is a bad tactic. That includes healing, using low DPS weapons, reviving people, or waiting for revive instead of extracting.

The only way of avoiding the need of those tactics, is to remove at least one of the facts stated above.
Either you nerf the WM health, or you remove the 7 minute timer.

I go with option 3. All the above.

drackiller
07-19-2014, 10:03 AM
OMG whoever wrote those rules is a genius, my favorite rule is number 3, don't commit suicide that's bad, wait for someone to save you and quit being selfish.
Dude...Jack was doing a sarcasm scene, get it!?

Ps: unless you`re being sarcastic too...LOL

I consider Jacks thread one of the best of all time in this forum.

ryleb89
07-19-2014, 10:05 AM
Originally Posted by Iceberg View Post

Originally Posted by Iceberg View Post
I like to use self medicated perk just in case I do get downed I can self revive, when I get downed again my self revive is already loaded and ready to be used again. Most of the time I might get downed just once in the fight because of my ego level and blast shield perk.

The Winnah!
That works or... you could use the one for all perk and revive multiple "crawlers" at once thus also drastically increasing DPS!! Both ways increase efficiency with little effort.

hiban
07-19-2014, 10:08 AM
I go with option 3. All the above.

Then, the warmaster would not be more challenging than killing a monarch hellbug. And it would become impossible to fail the mission.

The only way of encouraging heal/revive, while keeping it challenging and keeping a chance of losing, would be doing all of the following:

- Remove the 7 minute timer.
- Disable extraction.
- If everyone fall, the event is immediately considered failed and the warmaster escapes.

That way players would be forced to work as a team, and heal/revive.

ryleb89
07-19-2014, 10:14 AM
Then, the warmaster would not be more challenging than killing a monarch hellbug. And it would become impossible to fail the mission.

The only way of encouraging heal/revive, while keeping it challenging and keeping a chance of losing, would be doing all of the following:

- Remove the 7 minute timer.
- Disable extraction.
- If everyone fall, the event is immediately considered failed and the warmaster escapes.

That way players would be forced to work as a team, and heal/revive.

That is something I really want to see, teamwork actually being utilized to the fullest, you dont ned to remove the timer completely but 7 minutes seems a little too short especially now with the 3 minute lock timer.

hiban
07-19-2014, 10:18 AM
The 7 minute timer is the main reason why all the special WM tactics exist.
The WM is a DPS race against the clock. Remove the clock, and there will be no hurry.

Drusus
07-19-2014, 10:20 AM
Then, the warmaster would not be more challenging than killing a monarch hellbug. And it would become impossible to fail the mission.

The only way of encouraging heal/revive, while keeping it challenging and keeping a chance of losing, would be doing all of the following:

- Remove the 7 minute timer.
- Disable extraction.
- If everyone fall, the event is immediately considered failed and the warmaster escapes.

That way players would be forced to work as a team, and heal/revive.

And right there you have a far superior model, in theory, than what we have currently I think.

I get why the logic applies hiban. I just think it's counter to the games health that the scenario you outline is indeed correct and that's how the battle is designed.

Your suggestion sounds far more palatable to my way of thinking. Or if to get back in there was a new fight back above with more voulge who keep resealing the vents (ala Siege, taking a portal). No need for these to be hard edge cases, injecting more gameplay makes sense wherever possible.

Point is, both of these approaches would mean reviving is the better strategy rather than infinite corpse recycling through extraction.

Cheers mate.

moof
07-19-2014, 10:29 AM
i tryed a 3700 vot tachmag pulsar with incindiery nano at a wm battle where i was alone for the first few minutes

was hitting his back crystal everytime i could,didnt do much of nothing to him

so,what is the best wm weapon i can get?

sarahatesclowns
07-19-2014, 10:38 AM
If your EGO is 3700 or thereabouts, it's a good weapon (because it matches your own EGO) and is pretty widely used to fight the WM, same with assault rifles and light machine guns with decent damage. The reason you didn't see much happening as far as damaging health is because he's just that stinking tough, hence all the frustration. Breaking the crystal armor takes forever.

moof
07-19-2014, 10:46 AM
If your EGO is 3700 or thereabouts, it's a good weapon (because it matches your own EGO) and is pretty widely used to fight the WM, same with assault rifles and light machine guns with decent damage. The reason you didn't see much happening as far as damaging health is because he's just that stinking tough, hence all the frustration. Breaking the crystal armor takes forever.

is there some kind of treshhold point where personal dmg output changes in regards to the wm?cause one of the times i was in a sucessfull wm fight,his crystal armor whne down in about 1 minute flat,so i assumed the others mustve been maximum ego

sarahatesclowns
07-19-2014, 10:56 AM
I'm not great at the nuts and bolts of how the threat level scales up players to a higher EGO, because I never notice much personally beyond running out of bullets faster and dying more, but it's supposed to buff up all players to a higher level, which is why you want to keep your weapons current to your level.

That being said, having the heavy 5k hitters in and all hammering away at one spot specifically with bullet shooting weapons will definitely make all the difference in the world, and even more of a difference if the rest of the room is all on board with shooting that specific place to shatter the crystal armor. The ones I've won in had all those things going for it. And I've been in ones with 40+ people and failed miserably because people are shooting everywhere on the monkey, lobbing rockets and detonators like confetti.

I believe someone, somewhere, might have all this data on HP and such for the warmaster. Etaew, might, he seems to love numbers and is a master of info. It could be on his Defiancedata.com site. If you haven't been yet, check it out. There are breakdowns for just about everything in the game there.

hiban
07-19-2014, 10:58 AM
Yes. Starting from ego 4750, all the extra ego you get is extra damage which lower ego players wont have, even when they are scaled up.
That is, provided your weapons are superior than level 4750.

moof
07-19-2014, 11:01 AM
ah so i got a ways to go then,good thing to know

ryleb89
07-19-2014, 12:12 PM
They just need to make a few easy adjustments and we will be good to go with this big blue abomination.

jackdaws_1999
07-19-2014, 12:41 PM
Dude...Jack was doing a sarcasm scene, get it!?

Ps: unless you`re being sarcastic too...LOL

I consider Jacks thread one of the best of all time in this forum.

I wish I could take credit for the post, I simply colated all the "brilliant" ideas (read 'special' with a lisp) from the afformentioned thread. All credit goes to the OP on there, and all the Creditors who helped make it.

However, I shall steal some of the limelight for it (as I rarely get to do so) :) so I thankyou :)

And yes, sarcasm was rife throughout that OP... shame its not the case here.

I just had a terrifying thought.... what if trick reads those rules... and enacts them in patch 2.2? Aaaaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!!! I redact my previous post!

DeadEye68
07-19-2014, 01:31 PM
Yes. Starting from ego 4750, all the extra ego you get is extra damage which lower ego players wont have, even when they are scaled up.
That is, provided your weapons are superior than level 4750.

Damage increases for roughly 48% from 4750 to 5550

Bubbie
07-19-2014, 01:35 PM
..................

Smiit
07-19-2014, 01:39 PM
Just let the guy do what he wants. This game is meant to be played by player preference and choice.

ryleb89
07-19-2014, 06:05 PM
I wish I could take credit for the post, I simply colated all the "brilliant" ideas (read 'special' with a lisp) from the afformentioned thread. All credit goes to the OP on there, and all the Creditors who helped make it.

However, I shall steal some of the limelight for it (as I rarely get to do so) :) so I thankyou :)

And yes, sarcasm was rife throughout that OP... shame its not the case here.

I just had a terrifying thought.... what if trick reads those rules... and enacts them in patch 2.2? Aaaaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!!! I redact my previous post!

What have you done!!!

ryleb89
07-19-2014, 06:07 PM
Ryle, do you not take notice of what is occurring in this thread? They are poisoning your mind, my friend. Slowly but surely, you are falling victim to their wicked ways. At this very moment, you are in the grey zone. I beg of you, do not be swayed by their words any further. From their blood-lust eyes, there is no such thing as team-work. In fact, they label alike words taboo. Only score, treasure, and the brief moment of glory of killing a beast who is merely testing their morality is on their conscious. Have you not figured that out yet? Even their own clan members and friends are neglected during the fight. These ark hunters have merely succumbed to darkness and accepted that fact with open arms. Give up this meaningless fight of words or become a disciple of their immoral methods. Ryle, I know you have it in you to stay strong and true to yourself.

I must speak for they will not be saved if someone does not try to get them on the right path, soon all will perish and we will have no one left to revive so there greed can continue.

Bubbie
07-19-2014, 06:13 PM
..............

Deunan
07-19-2014, 06:37 PM
And *whoops* my ignore list just grew by two.But really actually one...

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/files/original/sock-puppets2.gif

ryleb89
07-19-2014, 06:54 PM
ryle, you imbecile!! You think those who had a taste of darkness will ever reform to what a true ark hunter stands for? So naive. Even if the light was to reach out and touch their weak souls, you think they will ever accept it? Ryle, you are undoubtedly an imbecile, but a strong willful one at that.

i will never give up!!

ryleb89
07-19-2014, 06:54 PM
But really actually one...

http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/files/original/sock-puppets2.gif



I like your sock puppets, what are there names?

superstorm
07-19-2014, 11:49 PM
Low EGO players should revive others.

ConcreteSnake
07-19-2014, 11:58 PM
Just let the guy do what he wants. This game is meant to be played by player preference and choice.

according to Trick its meant to be played the way he wants us to play. This all started when he first took up creative lead and what the first thing he does? Completely changes the grenade mechanic just to put his "stamp" on the game.

Bonehead
07-20-2014, 01:39 AM
The following rules will help the OP better help the community at large. *snip&shred*

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/giphy2_zps85ad2d13.gif

jackdaws_1999
07-20-2014, 09:27 AM
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/giphy2_zps85ad2d13.gif

If I had thought that my tongue in cheek, sarcastic message would possibly be taken as gospel, I would have fallen on my keyboard as all warriors must do.... I should have instantly committed Harry Corry and bought a sofa instead (UK joke... we have a chain store over here thats called Harry Corry).

Please Oh great and wonderful internet, swallow the rules before a great and finely feathered bird snitches on us and passes them to trick as the "Desired Rules the Community Desurves"... after all those that actually follow those rules must be in the Majority... 1 is higher than 100 after all... Majority means being in the smallest group right? I mean I get 1st place with the bestest score, not 100th....

Trion Maths makes for Better Maths "Hey mom, I got the best score in the school, I scored 1 out of 100!" "Sure son, you did great... its the taking part that counts..."

We are all Equal, goto sleep, Nothing to be seen here, we are all equal, you are free... to do as we tell you, you are free... to do as we tell you...