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Lightning
04-03-2013, 01:04 PM
I don't know about you guys but I cannot see people who are cloaking at all. It's like 100% invisible, it's so annoying how people camp with it. when I tried to track down a camping person with cloak ability, I would throw frag but it would not land on them!! Please make cloak ability at least visible in Pvp! It's not that I'm bad, it's just too cheap to have that in Pvp.

kenx
04-03-2013, 01:08 PM
its not that op i kill people that cloak all the time :)
and i love using it its fine the way it is

Jay
04-03-2013, 01:09 PM
welcome to MMO's... stealth is typically the #1 QQ forum subject

DaOC comes to mind

Lightning
04-03-2013, 01:11 PM
its not that op i kill people that cloak all the time :)
and i love using it its fine the way it is

No, for me, they're completely invisible. Not sure about you.

Aeekto
04-03-2013, 01:15 PM
You got problems with cloakers?......
call 1-800-DECOY and get your own "Sensor Sweep"-Perk for your decoy to uncloak everyone.
Only 49,95$..... buy NOW!

Von Bach Industries

Phatman
04-03-2013, 01:19 PM
I don't know about you guys but I cannot see people who are cloaking at all. It's like 100% invisible, it's so annoying how people camp with it. when I tried to track down a camping person with cloak ability, I would throw frag but it would not land on them!! Please make cloak ability at least visible in Pvp! It's not that I'm bad, it's just too cheap to have that in Pvp.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with cloak. Its on a cooldown, its not like 1 person can run around cloaked 24/7. Most complaints are also about the use of shotguns with cloak. Well, the 1 shot shotguns take like an hour to reload. I find it to be very balanced. For instance, Cloak/shotgun guy comes out of cloak 30m away from you and you have any other gun... cloak/shotgun guy dies.

Use decoy more, it will lure them out. Or use cloak as well.

Tsuka
04-03-2013, 01:23 PM
You got problems with cloakers?......
call 1-800-DECOY and get your own "Sensor Sweep"-Perk for your decoy to uncloak everyone.
Only 49,95$..... buy NOW!

Von Bach Industries

Getting one perk just to counter a other is too much we been over this on the other forums aeekto >_>

aslo cloak+def perks+cloak only perks+ back stab perks. enjoy till the upcoming patch.

Hiero Glyph
04-03-2013, 01:31 PM
You got problems with cloakers?......
call 1-800-DECOY and get your own "Sensor Sweep"-Perk for your decoy to uncloak everyone.
Only 49,95$..... buy NOW!

Von Bach Industries

Your logic and tactics have no place in this thread! Go back to your strategy games you n00b! [/sarcasm]

Besides it's much better to complain and die than to adapt and learn from your mistakes/shortcomings.

EDIT: Also, area greandes help, especially DoT effects, and the damage reduction perks are higher than the damage bonus perks. You can't cloak when taking damage, so use DoTs to your advantage.

Thedjectivenoun
04-03-2013, 01:40 PM
I don't know about you guys but I cannot see people who are cloaking at all. It's like 100% invisible, it's so annoying how people camp with it. when I tried to track down a camping person with cloak ability, I would throw frag but it would not land on them!! Please make cloak ability at least visible in Pvp! It's not that I'm bad, it's just too cheap to have that in Pvp.

Probably why it's called cloak, but if it was visible then it wouldn't be called cloak it would be called Lookit-me-with-the-blaze-orange-safety-vest EGO.

But it sounds like you want to be spoon fed wins and not earn them.

Aeekto
04-03-2013, 01:49 PM
Your logic and tactics have no place in this thread! Go back to your strategy games you n00b! [/sarcasm]

Besides it's much better to complain and die than to adapt and learn from your mistakes/shortcomings.

EDIT: Also, area greandes help, especially DoT effects, and the damage reduction perks are higher than the damage bonus perks. You can't cloak when taking damage, so use DoTs to your advantage.

pretty much!
allways the same with people who are new to pvp...... just complain if they die, because they never do anything wrong, itīs allways the system. :rolleyes:
I realy miss the good old days when people asked what they are doing wrong and what they can do to counter something..... instead of complaining about everything they canīt handle from the first second.

And just an additional hint for a lot of fun against a cloaking team:
Everyone at your team get an AR (or any other mid-/longrange weapon) as primary and a bonfire rocketlauncher as secondary with +blastradius bonus/mod and a bio-grenade. You can set the entire map on fire and tar and the cloakers wouldnīt even be able to get close to you cloaked....while you take them out one by one.

Riz
04-03-2013, 01:57 PM
How can you complain about cloak, m8? OF COURSE you're invisible, thats why its called cloak! Thats an ability which you could choose yourself as well! Patching it makes the ppl that choose too vulnerable, you have a special perk and you get seen anyways. So i would like to post a few more complaints that i as a cloaker came accross:
-Plz patch Decoy too, they make me shoot a ghost all of the time, unfair!
-Plz patch Blur too, i cant aim well if ppl move too fast, unfair!
-Plz patch Overcharge too, they eat up my health too quick since i cant cloak all the time due to the cooldown, unfair!

Phatman
04-03-2013, 02:39 PM
How can you complain about cloak, m8? OF COURSE you're invisible, thats why its called cloak! Thats an ability which you could choose yourself as well! Patching it makes the ppl that choose too vulnerable, you have a special perk and you get seen anyways. So i would like to post a few more complaints that i as a cloaker came accross:
-Plz patch Decoy too, they make me shoot a ghost all of the time, unfair!
-Plz patch Blur too, i cant aim well if ppl move too fast, unfair!
-Plz patch Overcharge too, they eat up my health too quick since i cant cloak all the time due to the cooldown, unfair!

I ran into those decoy, blur, and overcharge guys too... super unfair... can't believe they put those in.

Gradius
04-03-2013, 03:57 PM
I don't know about you guys but I cannot see people who are cloaking at all. It's like 100% invisible, it's so annoying how people camp with it. when I tried to track down a camping person with cloak ability, I would throw frag but it would not land on them!! Please make cloak ability at least visible in Pvp! It's not that I'm bad, it's just too cheap to have that in Pvp.

There is a counter to everything. If you're having trouble with cloak, use decoy with the perk that reveals cloaked enemies nearby.

berusko
04-03-2013, 04:02 PM
Yeah there's a counter to everything, the problem is that you get one shotted.

Gradius
04-03-2013, 04:09 PM
Yeah there's a counter to everything, the problem is that you get one shotted.

Getting "one-shot" is a product of poor EGO perk choices. If you're going PvP a lot, I would recommend taking the damage reduction perks first. Things like "take x% less damage" etc. Also, I would recommend using the "Rhino" series of shields as they have higher capacity at the cost of slower recharge.

PvP is about surviving. If you can take the hits and your opponent can't, you win!

Kelevra
04-03-2013, 04:18 PM
Yeah there's a counter to everything, the problem is that you get one shotted.

Stop building glass cannon.

discosoc
04-03-2013, 04:20 PM
Cloaking isn't the problem. Shotguns are. They do too much damage without having to really aim at all, which is why people cloak up, kill with a shotgun, then bunny hop everywhere blasting away with the shotgun since it's easy to do.

Take the shotgun out of the equation by making hipfire do less damage, or have a smaller hit radius, and cloaking won't seem nearly so bad. Snipers can one-shot people in the head, but you don't hear anyone really complaining about them.

Crrream
04-03-2013, 05:38 PM
I don't know if it's cloakers I'm going up against but I've gotten into lobbies where there is always one ******* that's invisible the entire time and never decloaks. Surely cloak doesn't allow you to stay invisible the entire time? Also, they never pop out of the cloak, or even die, when hit with any gun, rocket, fire etc which makes me think it's a glitch.

ChaosOneX
04-03-2013, 07:32 PM
Noted the same as well, I usually rank in top 3 each match, but I had one where they weren't cloaked, their character wasn't there. It might be a glitch, but its really annoying. Cloak is fine because you become visible when shooting. These people never left invisibility.

Frogger
04-03-2013, 10:40 PM
Really not that bad, its on a somewhat high cooldown, any damage makes it become visible, and many things make it so you cant cloak like fire, bugs, etc. In fact I think it is one of the weaker EGOs its only good use is using after a fight to regen shield then try to cloak kill someone.

Lightning
04-04-2013, 01:07 AM
pretty much!
allways the same with people who are new to pvp...... just complain if they die, because they never do anything wrong, itīs allways the system. :rolleyes:
I realy miss the good old days when people asked what they are doing wrong and what they can do to counter something..... instead of complaining about everything they canīt handle from the first second.

And just an additional hint for a lot of fun against a cloaking team:
Everyone at your team get an AR (or any other mid-/longrange weapon) as primary and a bonfire rocketlauncher as secondary with +blastradius bonus/mod and a bio-grenade. You can set the entire map on fire and tar and the cloakers wouldnīt even be able to get close to you cloaked....while you take them out one by one.

Not new to Pvp, don't be judging people but their opinion. It makes you look stupid.

Aeekto
04-04-2013, 01:18 AM
Not new to Pvp, don't be judging people but their opinion. It makes you look stupid.

I once heard it makes people look stupid if they claim something being OP what actually isnīt OP.
Try to learn the gamemechanics, use the tools the game gives you or even ask what you are doing wrong instead of complaining and calling other people stupid because they are telling the truth.

Warkaiser
04-04-2013, 01:56 AM
I once heard it makes people look stupid if they claim something being OP what actually isnīt OP.
Try to learn the gamemechanics, use the tools the game gives you or even ask what you are doing wrong instead of complaining and calling other people stupid because they are telling the truth.

Exactly this. There are several effective ways to counter cloakers. Just like there are effective ways to counter pretty much anything else people complain about in PvP. Your inability to understand and use those methods does not make something OP.

Its like watching some 3rd world tribesman who has no knowledge of modern technology being introduced to a television or cell phone. To them it's some sort of magical device simply because they dont understand it.

tabularasa
04-04-2013, 02:33 AM
So your having issues with cloak in pvp? Well then your really going to have a hard time once you get near and inside San Fransisco. You see, Dark Matter, the faction controlling the San Fran region, they use cloak and have perfected it to the point that it does not run out for them. Snipers will walk right up to you in full cloak and kill you in one shot. They will snipe you from afar, then re cloak.

Cloak is not OP. It is an integral part of the game. Don't like it? Too bad. Nerfing what is one of 4 major powers in this game that is completely science fiction based is not going to happen.

I played DAoC as well, and Infiltrators really sucked there as well. Then again, ITS JUST A GAME. GET OVER IT. GO OUTSIDE AND GET SOME EXERCISE. Nothing worse than a bunch of whining, immature little kids that cry when they don't get their way.

mimneotic
04-04-2013, 03:42 AM
Cloak ain't OP by any means. I just giggle at how pathetic it is when someone sneaks around invisible with a shotgun, killing one person then dying. So many Cloakers sitting on a negative K/D in PvP, it's absolutely hilarious.

Blur is the way to go. <3

B_Draco
04-04-2013, 04:06 AM
Cloaking isn't great, but not bad. I'd find Blur to be more annoying because if someone tried cloak/shotgun on me, I'd run faster than they could aim and shoot. And to address 1 perk that could extend cloak is a 2%-6% time boost for ANY EGO power upon killing any enemy. But even then you'd have to be in a match again knuckle draggers to keep killing a lot to stay in cloak a long time.

Twiggyskulls
04-04-2013, 06:20 AM
You got problems with cloakers?......
call 1-800-DECOY and get your own "Sensor Sweep"-Perk for your decoy to uncloak everyone.
Only 49,95$..... buy NOW!

Von Bach Industries

This. Welcome to the Meta Game.

Bluntski
04-04-2013, 06:49 AM
Decoy is terrible even with the stealth detection.

Lightning
04-04-2013, 01:33 PM
I once heard it makes people look stupid if they claim something being OP what actually isnīt OP.
Try to learn the gamemechanics, use the tools the game gives you or even ask what you are doing wrong instead of complaining and calling other people stupid because they are telling the truth.

Never did call anyone stupid, and it was an opinion which doesn't involve in any knowledge but experience. You should be talking with more respect, nobodies is right if you haven't notice by the way.

Lightning
04-04-2013, 01:35 PM
So your having issues with cloak in pvp? Well then your really going to have a hard time once you get near and inside San Fransisco. You see, Dark Matter, the faction controlling the San Fran region, they use cloak and have perfected it to the point that it does not run out for them. Snipers will walk right up to you in full cloak and kill you in one shot. They will snipe you from afar, then re cloak.

Cloak is not OP. It is an integral part of the game. Don't like it? Too bad. Nerfing what is one of 4 major powers in this game that is completely science fiction based is not going to happen.

I played DAoC as well, and Infiltrators really sucked there as well. Then again, ITS JUST A GAME. GET OVER IT. GO OUTSIDE AND GET SOME EXERCISE. Nothing worse than a bunch of whining, immature little kids that cry when they don't get their way.

No, NPC isn't hard to see, they ARE actually visible. In PVP, they are completely invisible which was giving me a hard time.

Mr Mikah
04-04-2013, 06:59 PM
Agreed cloak is well i wouldn't say op but I would say the best ego power. Not because your invisible but because it makes overcharge obsolete, which should never happen. Putting 5 points into overcharge nets you a 30% damage increase. now you can put 1 point into cloak 1 point into follow though, 1 point into energy surplus and 3 points into shadow strike, equip shadow strike as your perk and congrats you do 30% more damage and are invisible. Beyond this you are also only 2 perks away from fortitude and cellular armor, possibly the best two perks in the game, and not to mention all the elemental % change increase perks are next to cloak. Cloak with a shotgun, that's imbued with lightening and 30% more damage. Lol that just makes me happy inside.

Duskguy
04-04-2013, 07:14 PM
attacking= uncloak
being attacked = uncloak
activation of cloak you see the camouflage activate, they dont simply vanish.

there are perks to extend the duration and lower the cool down, but honestly, it is situational. you cant run around invisible the whole time and just kill someone. and campers? really? they cant stay invisible, which means they know you are there. and there is a kill screen, so you know where they were.

any DoT nullifies the ability. in BETA the infector basically rendered this ability null, not sure about currently.

Tacopolice
04-04-2013, 07:47 PM
Stop crying about cloak it's fine... If you want to counter cloak use decoy.. Nuff said

Ragenerdz
04-04-2013, 08:15 PM
All the people on here defending cloak are the ones using it. All day in Shadow Wars I was killed by ONLY cloak users who were right behind me when I died. Sorry, but ANY time a game uses a stealth mechanic, it is usually broken. Some more than others, such as Defiance, when you can kill someone so quickly. Games like WoW aren't as bad, because the Rogue or Druid will not kill you instantly. Games where you can be killed instantly, should not have it.


Stop crying about cloak it's fine... If you want to counter cloak use decoy.. Nuff said

I bet your using Cloak aren't you? Once Defiance realizes that everyone feels they NEED to switch to cloak over anything else, they will fix it. Also, if decoy is the only thing that can counter it effectively, then the other 2 ego abilities will be useless and they won't allow that. So enjoy your cloak now, personally I hope they just scrap cloak for something else, which would really help balance things out. You can try to argue it is fine all you want, but honestly it's not. You can cloak for up to 21-23 seconds I believe it is if you use the perk. That is entirely too long.

Eihder
04-04-2013, 10:25 PM
The problem with cloak is not that it is overpowered but rather that the perks are too good. Shield recharge/stealth/damage boost equal to overcharge? yes, please.. add in at least 1 more perk and its basicly all powers rolled into 1. Makes me sad my overcharge only lets me reload fast, but hey we can all go stealth.. yay.. variety.. you want that stealth with shotgun or shotgun?

Raomin
04-04-2013, 10:55 PM
Games like WoW aren't as bad

Tell that to the WoW Vanilla players. Especially those that sided with the alliance (poor priests/warlocks during those days...) In all reality, it will be tweaked, and worked on. Strategies will be developed, counters, and counters to those counters, and so on and so forth. It's part of the game, and will be for all time. To those that say cloaked is OP: that may be the case, I sincerely disagree with that statement myself, but work on counters or offer constructive criticism or advice to others, rather than just crying about how it's OP because you are too ignorant or lazy to learn the games mechanics and learn how to beat it.

I use Overcharge myself, just to throw that out there so hopefully won't lob me in as a defender of it because I use it.

Reason
04-04-2013, 10:55 PM
The problem is not that cloak lasts 15-23 seconds. The problem is that you go back into cloak for the duration of time you have left even after a kill. That is the problem. Plus like you said a damage boost for rear attacks up to +15%? Add on +30% DMG increase just while being cloaked and yeah....you can see why it's the power of choice by far.

A lot of power have bonuses however another problem is that the cloak surrounding perks are increases to any damage. Where as lets say Overcharge has explosive increases, and Blur has melee increases. Yes I know it is a stealth power but in its current form it is ridiculous.

Yes there is Sensor Sweep which is absolute trash considering you have to use your Decoy to scan the area instead of using it to flank a sniper or a corner hugging shotty user. Now my power is on CD and I wasted it because I didn't reveal any cloak users. The cloak is 100% invisible on top of that. Instant recharge making it a great escape power for defensive use as well.

Most of the defense perks are laughable at best.

-15% DMG if you stand still. Lol....that just screams headshot me please.
-9% DMG while crouched. You sacrifice a lot of mobility and still offer up easy headshots.
The -6% DMG one unlocked at 250 EGO is good.
-30% DMG from behind is good, however cloak has a nearby perk to increase hip fire crit multiplier +12%. Bunnyhopping shotty hip fired at your head will generally end you fast with this, a rear attack and a +30% boost due to attacking from cloak.
Half DMG for 3s once shield depletes is good.

Perhaps the damage perks should be even spread amongst the powers and same with the defensive perks. As it stand I know there are no "classes" but if you look at the grid Decoy has a lot of defensive perks like a tank, Cloak is your typical burst rouge, Overcharge seems to be your standard DPS/CC role and Blur I literally have no clue.

Eihder
04-04-2013, 11:06 PM
The problem is not that cloak lasts 15-23 seconds. The problem is that you go back into cloak for the duration of time you have left even after a kill. That is the problem. Plus like you said a damage boost for rear attacks up to +15%? Add on +30% DMG increase just while being cloaked and yeah....you can see why it's the power of choice by far.

A lot of power have bonuses however another problem is that the cloak surrounding perks are increases to any damage. Where as lets say Overcharge has explosive increases, and Blur has melee increases. Yes I know it is a stealth power but in its current form it is ridiculous.

Yes there is Sensor Sweep which is absolute trash considering you have to use your Decoy to scan the area instead of using it to flank a sniper or a corner hugging shotty user. Now my power is on CD and I wasted it because I didn't reveal any cloak users. The cloak is 100% invisible on top of that. Instant recharge making it a great escape power for defensive use as well.

Most of the defense perks are laughable at best.

-15% DMG if you stand still. Lol....that just screams headshot me please.
-9% DMG while crouched. You sacrifice a lot of mobility and still offer up easy headshots.
The -6% DMG one unlocked at 250 EGO is good.
-30% DMG from behind is good, however cloak has a nearby perk to increase hip fire crit multiplier +12%. Bunnyhopping shotty hip fired at your head will generally end you fast with this, a rear attack and a +30% boost due to attacking from cloak.
Half DMG for 3s once shield depletes is good.

Perhaps the damage perks should be even spread amongst the powers and same with the defensive perks. As it stand I know there are no "classes" but if you look at the grid Decoy has a lot of defensive perks like a tank, Cloak is your typical burst rouge, Overcharge seems to be your standard DPS/CC role and Blur I literally have no clue.

I think you are on to something, the damage perks stack up incredibly high while the defensive perks are rather laughable. Not only this but as i mentioned a lot of powers are redundant and can be found in stealth. Yes everyones using shadow striker 30% damage boost. Want blur? take escape artist. Only decoy and stealth are really unique and of those two we know wich is more useful. While yes there are strategies that help and you can kill a stealther it comes down to the same thing as in any game. You either use the flavor of the month or you work harder to compensate. Then again truth be told i knew it would be the power of choice since beta. Hard to ignore its perks, but i still went with overcharge. I only pity the one person using blur every other shadow game.

Lowlif3r
04-05-2013, 03:01 AM
Use the decoy perk where it shows stealthed people if you use it... :-)

Ragenerdz
04-05-2013, 09:31 AM
I once heard it makes people look stupid if they claim something being OP what actually isnīt OP.
Try to learn the gamemechanics, use the tools the game gives you or even ask what you are doing wrong instead of complaining and calling other people stupid because they are telling the truth.

It is only not OP in your opinion though. So you look even more stupid.

Keyh
04-05-2013, 09:53 AM
It is only not OP in your opinion though. So you look even more stupid.

Not really, it just proves that there are more whiners than there are people that actually understand the game and concept of altering strategy.

labotimy
04-05-2013, 11:30 AM
wow the nerf cloak threads are annoying. had to pop in this one just to laugh at all you pvp noobs saying cloak is OP, especially since blur>cloak due to certain perk combos.

Lightning
04-05-2013, 12:20 PM
wow the nerf cloak threads are annoying. had to pop in this one just to laugh at all you pvp noobs saying cloak is OP, especially since blur>cloak due to certain perk combos.

Think about overcharge people against cloak people, not a chance. I use overcharge and I still get 5.0 k/d over kids. You're a noob for commenting when it's not necessary. I get hate voice messages like always because I know how to use overcharges. Don't comment if you're just going to disrespectful to the community.

Figma
04-05-2013, 12:25 PM
Being cloak user myself i have no problem seeing them and chasing them down

labotimy
04-05-2013, 12:30 PM
Think about overcharge people against cloak people, not a chance. I use overcharge and I still get 5.0 k/d over kids. You're a noob for commenting when it's not necessary. I get hate voice messages like always because I know how to use overcharges. Don't comment if you're just going to disrespectful to the community.

all i can do is lulz@you. the only thing overpowered out of the skill tree atm are perks. cloak is widely used and effective due to the nature of MMO players, and the maps available. just going to repeat it again, currently blur>cloak due to perk synergy.

evildon
04-05-2013, 12:35 PM
Use sensor sweep perk my young noob

Reason
04-05-2013, 01:13 PM
Use sensor sweep perk my young noob

Again, we all should only use Decoy or Cloak.

Waste Decoys to hope we uncloak an enemy instead of using it to distract a sniper or a flag guard.

In anycase I use Blur and sadly there is a lot left to be desired from the nearby perks.

Escalith
04-05-2013, 02:41 PM
Cloak? OP? In itself not particularly, but with certain perks and cloak you can be quite unstoppable. It's be far easier to deal with if you uncloaked entirely after your first kill, or at the very least reduce the ffectivity of power recharge perks in PvP.

As both, in combination - are quite devastating, moreso than any other perk.

Don't get me wrong, I love those 4k Melee Hits using Blur, twoshotting people all around and quite frankly I believe it's too strong as well compared to - say - Overpower; but a proper Perk build with cloak even tops that.


Ex-

Cloak up with a shotgun; 2-shot two people in a row, swap to your homing infector to bunny hop and kill a third/ cloak recharged, rinse and repeat.

And the only way to stop this is using either A; a lucky Decoy to uncloak them at hand, or use Decoy when you see a cloaker going into stealth.

For such a powerful, even if cheap and poor tactic it is, there's far too little to counter it.



The only thing currently I see as really OP are bunny hopping, cloaking Infector users, mainly due to the perk synergies & the fact that Infectors home on your targets and you aren't affected by recoil if done properly, whereas any other automatic weapon is.

Psyten
04-05-2013, 02:50 PM
ive found cloak to be quite annoying myself. i see ppl saying just get decoy which seems a tad silly especialy if you are someone who wants to use a different ego maybe near endgame when u can get all powers or something that maybe an option.

i dont know what to do about cloak but i can say one thing turn ur speakers up you can actualy hear roughly where a cloaker is if he's reloading or making some kind of noise bagged me a cloaker today from that

Chuck Zitto
04-05-2013, 02:56 PM
I knew these threads were coming. I was gonna be a blur shotgunner or a cloak shotgunner before I ever played the game. I knew thought that whichever I chose would get nerfed to the point its not really useable anymore. Happens to me in most games I play. Anybody else play guild wars 2. I wanted to play thief before I ever played it. Pretty much every single patch since its launch has been thief nerfs. Now there just not very good anymore after all the nerfs.

Stew360
04-05-2013, 03:22 PM
100% invisibility is DUMB as hell In PVP having a cloack is all ok i mean been transparent but been totally invisible Is moron and this BS need to get out of PVP

Aidan415
04-05-2013, 03:28 PM
What would be the point in having a cloak that left you visible it would be the same as if the decoy appeared to the enemies as the Turquoise Hologram, if you see someone going into cloak shoot in their general direction hitting them will knock off the cloak and if you're unable to do this then PvP is not for you.

thejx4
04-05-2013, 03:46 PM
Cloak plus elemental sawed off = no chance unless the entire enemy team is near you. Stealth doesn't belong in a multiplayer mode, where visuals are key to survival. This wouldn't be so bad if we had claymores or something, but that creates so many more problems. Mainly, the shotguns are the biggest problem in general. PvE and PvP flip everything around. Shotguns are ****ing useless and PvE, and everything else works pretty well. Shotguns are almost the only way to get a kill on your own, unless you have one of the parasite guns. It went from rocket spam, to create a noob combo of cloak/shotgun. If the X/Y aiming in this game wasn't so damn wonky, people using sniper rifles might have a better chance to hit someone in pvp. X/Y need separate sliders, as does ADS and hipfire. Assault rifles also have terrible range, what's up with that? Currently, both PVP maps force you out into the open, and close quarters combat, and well know what to use in CQC. I know it's only week one, I'm not mad or anything, but jeez...some of the balance issues shouldn't even be here. Modern Warfare 2 should have taught you guys a lot.

NinjaC00M
04-05-2013, 04:03 PM
Man this is funny to read :p just play the bits you enjoy and the style thats fun for you don't hate on everything. Personally I use 2 loadouts for pvp one cloak one over charge and a good assult rifle and over charge can finish a player really fast. As for cloak I don't use it for the invisibility thats just a bonus ;)

Honved
04-05-2013, 09:25 PM
I have actually been watching this thread with some amusement, I use cloak, blur, and overcharge, each has it's own distinct advantage and disadvantage. In my opinion blur is the best for pvp and cloak is the best for pve for how I play. Now the main thing I hear people bash is closked shotguns, while this is effective I find blur shotguns much more deadly, run at the speed of an atv with boosted melee damage is pretty scary stuff. Here's a thought though, why not nerf shotguns? I ask this because I noticed that with the last patch the damage on my shotguns went up! I noticed an all round 5-20 percent increase of raw shotgun damage, that I have a problem with. See a lot of people use the claim that it's more "realistic" That shotguns are huge damage dealers, but these are the same people who say that rocket launchers need to be nerfed. Rockets are deadly even at 15-20m radius depending on the explosives, sometimes even further. So why not make them more realistic? It needs to be balanced, while I am fine with me dying in a close blast from a shotgun I'm not fine that they have 15 more one shot kills ready to go. The abilities are fine but if you're going to re-vamp anything it should be the weapons. Then it comes down to tactics and skill.

thejx4
04-05-2013, 09:40 PM
Man this is funny to read :p just play the bits you enjoy and the style thats fun for you don't hate on everything. Personally I use 2 loadouts for pvp one cloak one over charge and a good assult rifle and over charge can finish a player really fast. As for cloak I don't use it for the invisibility thats just a bonus ;)

You're ignoring the fact that some people WANT to enjoy the PvP, but right now...it's very hit and miss. Shadow War is a much better experience, but no one knows/cares about it. I swear no one even notices the "play again" button. We need a lobby system.

dragonuy
04-05-2013, 09:55 PM
The problem with the OP "lightning" is pretty simple he likes to use Overcharge and want to be able to win against all other powers.
But it doesn't work like that.
All 4 powers play a big game of rock-paper-scissors, if you can't see this you are delusional or to self-centered.
If you don't like being killed then change your playstyle.
People using blur could complain that you can kill them to fast when using overcharge.
Should overcharge be nerf to favor blur? NO
See where i'm going with this? your power of choice will be better against some other powers but not all 3
And if this is what you want then you are just complaining because Overcharge is not OP enough, and that's hypocrisy

Honved
04-05-2013, 10:05 PM
Truer words have never been spoken... Unless you were to say Honved, you're drunk. ;)

Honved
04-05-2013, 10:08 PM
Anyone who hates cloaking, You would have hated killzone 3.

armedpoop
04-05-2013, 10:12 PM
Getting one perk just to counter a other is too much we been over this on the other forums aeekto >_>

aslo cloak+def perks+cloak only perks+ back stab perks. enjoy till the upcoming patch.

Ok um, Im quite certain that that was the point of putting perks in to SPECIFICALLY counter other perks.
Your joking right?

Aeekto
04-05-2013, 11:26 PM
Ok um, Im quite certain that that was the point of putting perks in to SPECIFICALLY counter other perks.
Your joking right?

He wants to be a "egg laying pow" (jack of all trades) with everything he uses. He donīt want to change Perks/Weapons/Shields to counter something..... everything he has equipped has to counter everything :rolleyes:

Cqcnastyn8
04-06-2013, 07:44 AM
He wants to be a "egg laying pow" (jack of all trades) with everything he uses. He donīt want to change Perks/Weapons/Shields to counter something..... everything he has equipped has to counter everything :rolleyes:
you must be the guy who cloaks and spams shotgun all day right??

labotimy
04-06-2013, 07:45 AM
you must be the guy who cloaks and spams shotgun all day right??

you must be the guy spamming the same line about shotty/cloak users in every pvp thread right??

Cqcnastyn8
04-06-2013, 07:53 AM
you must be the guy spamming the same line about shotty/cloak users in every pvp thread right??

you must be the scrub that defends those users right?

eclipsXe
04-06-2013, 07:59 AM
I'm the scrub that's better then all of you.

Aeekto
04-06-2013, 08:30 AM
you must be the guy who cloaks and spams shotgun all day right??

ya, because i want to cloak-shotty everyone i use blur or overcharge and any kind of weapons that iīm leveling at that moment (even spanner trapper that only does half of the damage than other BMGs) :rolleyes:
i only pick shotgun (but with blur) if there are exploiter at the other team (what actually gets worse every day)
seriously, next time get your facts right before you make such posts full of nonsense

Honved
04-06-2013, 08:45 AM
ya, because i want to cloak-shotty everyone i use blur or overcharge and any kind of weapons that iīm leveling at that moment (even spanner trapper that only does half of the damage than other BMGs) :rolleyes:
i only pick shotgun (but with blur) if there are exploiter at the other team (what actually gets worse every day)
seriously, next time get your facts right before you make such posts full of nonsense

Ignore them if they can't see the vast application of each perk and how balanced they are then they don't deserve the game, I have no problem spotting stealth on my blur toon. ;)

QuantumSam
04-06-2013, 09:01 AM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with cloak. Its on a cooldown, its not like 1 person can run arouAnd cloaked 24/7. Most complaints are also about the use of shotguns with cloak. Well, the 1 shot shotguns take like an hour to reload. I find it to be very balanced. For instance, Cloak/shotgun guy comes out of cloak 30m away from you and you have any other gun... cloak/shotgun guy dies.

Use decoy more, it will lure them out. Or use cloak as well.

Arebyoubsayingnwe can have more than one EGO ability?

QuantumSam
04-06-2013, 09:12 AM
What means "OP"?

Bone
04-06-2013, 10:55 AM
What means "OP"?

Overpowered.

Also I keep playing with SMG/OC, simply because I don't want to give into the whole "shotgun/cloak thingy" but the more days I play the higher the % of the players I play with/against seems to smell the easy shutgun/cloak win, and starts doing that... Soon there wont be any player visible on the battlefield they will all be invisible :P

Figma
04-06-2013, 10:56 AM
I wouldnt worry about cloak when there is people who somehow use both overcharge and cloak at same time o_O

alilsneaky
04-06-2013, 11:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBVp8mfSNc

Here's a short video I made, cloak is broken end of.

PVP is supposed to be a back and forth, do you see any back and forth here? Do you think the other players were having a good time?
(answer both questions before you argue, else I will ignore you)

I normally play with an assault rifle, overcharge spec and 3 burst shotgun (offhand just to counter all the cloak clowns), with a rhino shield and the -30 percent dmg taken from behind talent AND the -6 percent dmg talent just to survive that first hit in the back and maybe blow them up if they are really bad (which most are).

I do well but usually get 4-5 deaths per game in the way illustrated in this video, since I spec cloak I get maybe 1-2 deaths and top the scores every time, and those deaths are to other cloakers catching me with my cloak down...

The fact that you can run up to people from the front right into their face and they cannot see you means it is dumb.
Again pvp is supposed to be about interaction, there is no interaction when the cloaker kills the other person straight out of stealth.

Aidan415
04-06-2013, 11:56 AM
In 45 seconds between 2 games i'd expect little back and forth, all i saw was you shotgun a guy in the face who was focusing on the 2 teamates behind you then you proceed to shoot another two in the back who wouldn't have you seen you regardless of whether you had cloak on or not. As for whether they were having fun or not if you're someone that gets mad at losing then PvP is not for you as there will be players who are better and use perks more to their advantage.

Also if it's such common knowledge that everyone is running around cloak shotgunning then you should keep mobile as if you aren't jumping rolling or sprinting you are just asking to get gunned down from behind.

A third point would be that the video shows the 2 smaller PvP maps where as in Shadow wars (64vs64) and Freight Yard (24Vs24) there is much less of this due to the size difference.

(AR + Bmg user before someone screams bet you do it)

Bone
04-06-2013, 12:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBVp8mfSNc

Here's a short video I made, cloak is broken end of.

PVP is supposed to be a back and forth, do you see any back and forth here? Do you think the other players were having a good time?
(answer both questions before you argue, else I will ignore you)

I normally play with an assault rifle, overcharge spec and 3 burst shotgun (offhand just to counter all the cloak clowns), with a rhino shield and the -30 percent dmg taken from behind talent AND the -6 percent dmg talent just to survive that first hit in the back and maybe blow them up if they are really bad (which most are).

I do well but usually get 4-5 deaths per game in the way illustrated in this video, since I spec cloak I get maybe 1-2 deaths and top the scores every time, and those deaths are to other cloakers catching me with my cloak down...

The fact that you can run up to people from the front right into their face and they cannot see you means it is dumb.
Again pvp is supposed to be about interaction, there is no interaction when the cloaker kills the other person straight out of stealth.

To answer your first two questions: No and no.

also I totally agree with everything you said and it is completely true.

Migrayne
04-06-2013, 12:08 PM
Maybe balance cloak with a very low cool down grenade that is aoe but low damage. This way people can toss grenades around d looking for cloakers.

Or make one of decoys perks a passive chance to cloak reveal. The current perk to decloak.people when using decoy is almost useless since the ability has a long cooldow . I've never seen my decoy reveal anyone.

Honved
04-06-2013, 12:13 PM
Yes I see back and forth and yes I think they were all having a good time.


In 45 seconds between 2 games i'd expect little back and forth, all i saw was you shotgun a guy in the face who was focusing on the 2 teamates behind you then you proceed to shoot another two in the back who wouldn't have you seen you regardless of whether you had cloak on or not. As for whether they were having fun or not if you're someone that gets mad at losing then PvP is not for you as there will be players who are better and use perks more to their advantage.

Also if it's such common knowledge that everyone is running around cloak shotgunning then you should keep mobile as if you aren't jumping rolling or sprinting you are just asking to get gunned down from behind.

A third point would be that the video shows the 2 smaller PvP maps as in Shadow wars (64vs64) and Freight Yard (24Vs24) there is much less of this due to the size difference.

(AR + Bmg user before someone screams bet do it)

So he got one "cheap" kill and then two legitimate kills, ever been rushed by a shotgunning blur user who knows to zigzag? Musch more frustrating, I can spot cloaks easy, the problem is people don't pay attention. Every cloak user sees the shimmer, why can't you? Decoy has a built in perk, yet no other abilities have a perk that say "hey that's a decoy." No other perk has you be able to move at the speed over an atv yet that is another ability. Remember this is a SHOOTER mmo. You will be one shot, you will feel cheated but don't come here all pissed off because you can't see a shimmer or refuse to make a build to counter. There's a reason you have more then one load out.

My biggest issue is the bmg, I've tried a number of tactics, the only one that works is cloaking and using a grenade launcher from far away and ducking back out. My other load outs are an lmg with a swarm launcher (swarm rarely gets my kills but is good for supporting team mates and crowd control.) and an lmg and ar.

If it is so op why not show the rest of the matches? Oh that's right because you took the clips that were best suited for your argument, secondly if it is so op why in the second match was that persons team losing? I also saw a cloak user attack the player and the attacker still lost, so it comes down to skill and attention to detail.

The point of it is simple, Get better. ;D

labotimy
04-06-2013, 01:11 PM
Yes I see back and forth and yes I think they were all having a good time.



So he got one "cheap" kill and then two legitimate kills, ever been rushed by a shotgunning blur user who knows to zigzag? Musch more frustrating, I can spot cloaks easy, the problem is people don't pay attention. Every cloak user sees the shimmer, why can't you? Decoy has a built in perk, yet no other abilities have a perk that say "hey that's a decoy." No other perk has you be able to move at the speed over an atv yet that is another ability. Remember this is a SHOOTER mmo. You will be one shot, you will feel cheated but don't come here all pissed off because you can't see a shimmer or refuse to make a build to counter. There's a reason you have more then one load out.

My biggest issue is the bmg, I've tried a number of tactics, the only one that works is cloaking and using a grenade launcher from far away and ducking back out. My other load outs are an lmg with a swarm launcher (swarm rarely gets my kills but is good for supporting team mates and crowd control.) and an lmg and ar.

If it is so op why not show the rest of the matches? Oh that's right because you took the clips that were best suited for your argument, secondly if it is so op why in the second match was that persons team losing? I also saw a cloak user attack the player and the attacker still lost, so it comes down to skill and attention to detail.

The point of it is simple, Get better. ;D

this guy has his thinking cap on xD

DC Zero
04-06-2013, 01:47 PM
I've always tried to stay positive and not complain about shotgun cloakers. I still think that they can be countered, but I am starting to get a little frustrated because I feel they are getting too much reward with little effort. I have to play it very smart if I want to have a chance of beating a shotgunner coming at me while cloaked, while they are guaranteed atleast one kill everytime their ego power is up with minimal effort. And now that the current meta seems to be stack teams with as many shotguns + cloak as possible, I find myself sprinting everywhere with my head on a swivel.

I'm not trying to whine to Trion and tell them that their game is broken because it is not. Shotgun + cloak can be countered, but everyone is flocking to it because its easier to put up better numbers on the scoreboard. I think it would be in the games best interest to do something about it to try and increase weapon and ego power diversity in pvp.

Honved
04-06-2013, 01:54 PM
this guy has his thinking cap on xD

Well I have a cloak user and a blur user, blur is just so much better that it frustrates me to see cloak getting so much hate lol.

Honved
04-06-2013, 01:56 PM
I've always tried to stay positive and not complain about shotgun cloakers. I still think that they can be countered, but I am starting to get a little frustrated because I feel they are getting too much reward with little effort. I have to play it very smart if I want to have a chance of beating a shotgunner coming at me while cloaked, while they are guaranteed atleast one kill everytime their ego power is up with minimal effort. And now that the current meta seems to be stack teams with as many shotguns + cloak as possible, I find myself sprinting everywhere with my head on a swivel.

I'm not trying to whine to Trion and tell them that their game is broken because it is not. Shotgun + cloak can be countered, but everyone is flocking to it because its easier to put up better numbers on the scoreboard. I think it would be in the games best interest to do something about it to try and increase weapon and ego power diversity in pvp.

Yes, an idea I can get on board with, ability slots for pvp. 2 cloak wears and 2 blur users, the rest overcharge and decoy.

alilsneaky
04-06-2013, 02:57 PM
In 45 seconds between 2 games i'd expect little back and forth, all i saw was you shotgun a guy in the face who was focusing on the 2 teamates behind you then you proceed to shoot another two in the back who wouldn't have you seen you regardless of whether you had cloak on or not. As for whether they were having fun or not if you're someone that gets mad at losing then PvP is not for you as there will be players who are better and use perks more to their advantage.

Also if it's such common knowledge that everyone is running around cloak shotgunning then you should keep mobile as if you aren't jumping rolling or sprinting you are just asking to get gunned down from behind.

A third point would be that the video shows the 2 smaller PvP maps where as in Shadow wars (64vs64) and Freight Yard (24Vs24) there is much less of this due to the size difference.

(AR + Bmg user before someone screams bet you do it)


I fully agree that in shadow wars and the big map it doesn't matter that much since they are large in size and you need to use most of your camo duration just to walk up to a guy unseen, but it breaks these small maps.
Personally I couldn't possibly care less about playing the small maps but since there seems to be like 3 shadow wars in a whole day (none today) and the big map is disabled ... the small maps are all we have right now.
Still there are a lot of people who will want to play the small maps.

The scenario in which I killed people does not matter in the video, the point was I can run up to them right in their face and shoot them and they won't see me, and they die before they see me, that's what I meant by back and forth.
It's very onesided this way and there is no interaction between me and them, I might as well be killing a pve mob.


As for the guy proclaiming blur is the Op power, you can see them coming and they are easy enough to shoot if you have half decent aim. (unless the servers are lagging, in which case the game isn't worth playing to begin with, or unless you are playing with a controller in which case again I have to ask why you are wasting your time playing a shooter with a garbage control scheme, peasant).

nuarblack
04-06-2013, 04:34 PM
If any nerf to cloak should come it should be to shadow strike or forgive me for the comparison, make cloak like on halo 4 in that you have to crouch for it to make you completely invisible. Cause making them not really invisible would make it complete garbage.

Or as an alternative. I know they were trying to avoid having specific roles and being to MMO like in making certain ones mandatory but a bleed out period where you could be revived I think would encourage team play more. This would make the medic perks near decoy more useful as well as OC would be good as cover fire. This would make the cloak, shotgun blast and run off a lot less frustrating. Also nerf jump for pvp only. It makes sense for the open world pve environments to jump that high but not in pvp.

I would rather see creative solutions rather than the typical nerf bat seesaw typical of MMO pvp balancing that just ends up in flavors of the month.

iivi dynasty
04-06-2013, 06:51 PM
I don't know about you guys but I cannot see people who are cloaking at all. It's like 100% invisible, it's so annoying how people camp with it. when I tried to track down a camping person with cloak ability, I would throw frag but it would not land on them!! Please make cloak ability at least visible in Pvp! It's not that I'm bad, it's just too cheap to have that in Pvp.

Cloak would be pointless if you could see their outlines. If that's the case just take it out the game altogether

Kurze
04-06-2013, 06:59 PM
cloack is *mostly* fine. when people runs they could be partially visible, just a tad bit, but not something that annoys me tbh

the problem is cloak + shooty, its an imba combination in small scale maps, thats why they are full of them. soon enough the whole competitive matches will be cloak+shooty players running around waiting for someone to decloak. in other words, pitiful to the extreme


anyway I just do shadow wars when they pop, and there cloakers are food for the meatgrinder LOL. competitive matches are really boring, shadow war is where the fun is at...

Honved
04-07-2013, 07:25 AM
If any nerf to cloak should come it should be to shadow strike or forgive me for the comparison, make cloak like on halo 4 in that you have to crouch for it to make you completely invisible. Cause making them not really invisible would make it complete garbage.

Or as an alternative. I know they were trying to avoid having specific roles and being to MMO like in making certain ones mandatory but a bleed out period where you could be revived I think would encourage team play more. This would make the medic perks near decoy more useful as well as OC would be good as cover fire. This would make the cloak, shotgun blast and run off a lot less frustrating. Also nerf jump for pvp only. It makes sense for the open world pve environments to jump that high but not in pvp.

I would rather see creative solutions rather than the typical nerf bat seesaw typical of MMO pvp balancing that just ends up in flavors of the month.

Okay so make it so that we have to camp in pvp and make it largely useless for advancing in pve, wonderful idea, you get a gold star. Seriously could those with extra chromosomes just sit in the corner and let the adults work this out? There is nothing wrong with cloak if they were to add a certain number of slots for abilities (frankly I have yet to see a bunch of cloak users the most abilities I've seen is blur which I think these people are and a noble cloaker ended their killing spree and thus they are frustrated.) per map.

FlashFlare
04-07-2013, 07:59 AM
Yeah, i want to like pvp but as it stands in competative mode ( not shadow war) Stealth is just too damn lame.
These people can't actually play they just hide behind stealth and run around with shotguns.
I say nerf it to death make it unplayable in the team deathmatch modes. I want them to rectally bleed.
I'm all about fps thats all i usually play and come out in first place most games but this ****... hiding behind stealth... naw ill pass.
Make it last 5-10 seconds with a 1 minute recharge in pvp.

And for all you whiners of the stealth that will cry about anybody wanting to adjust stealth in pvp... it's not going to affect your pve. So stop crying and being afraid of the nerf hammer.

As it is right now, its not even fun to play

TeH CaMmEh
04-07-2013, 08:44 AM
I find it hilarious how many noobs on this thread who obviously camp and cloak the whole time are saying the original poster is complaining/cant learn how to kill them..... when it clearly is the most lame and unbalanced thing on the multiplayer and clearly needs to be evened up a little bit.. 100% invisible is ridiculous... they should be very very slightly visible to a trained eye when moving or when you are close to them!!

Aidan415
04-07-2013, 08:56 AM
This is like groundhog day with the same posts everyday, if cloak was visible then why would anyone use it other than to fool the 1% who are blind as ****.

I uploaded a video originally to prove AR don't need a buff but it manages to capture a moment where it shows how easy it is to kill these invisible players, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mk_85TOmx4 Skip all the **** to about 9:22. If you are incapable of doing that then you will never have any chance in PvP.

TeH CaMmEh
04-07-2013, 09:17 AM
This is like groundhog day with the same posts everyday, if cloak was visible then why would anyone use it other than to fool the 1% who are blind as ****.

I uploaded a video originally to prove AR don't need a buff but it manages to capture a moment where it shows how easy it is to kill these invisible players, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mk_85TOmx4 Skip all the **** to about 9:22. If you are incapable of doing that then you will never have any chance in PvP.

obviously no one here is saying make people using cloak completely visible... jesus how do you people not understand that, you can still have invisibility in a fair way, just not 100% invisible even when sprinting etc

oh and i watched your video.... you killed one invisible guy who was fighting someone else.... WELL DONE!!

plus point proven exactly, after you kill the invisible *****, you then proceed to use your cloak.... hence why your here defending the use of cloak saying people who dont use them and notice how lame it is aren't skilled... funny!!!!

Aidan415
04-07-2013, 10:57 AM
Less than 100% is visible it's simple it's either invisible or visible no in between, as for killing the guy it was more a point of look how easy it is to follow where he is running and shoot to knock off his cloak.

Then third point for maximum fool the guy i cloaked to kill i did so from range which i could of done without cloak the sole reason was because i had been fighting him throughout the whole round and was aware that he had perked into alot of resistance perks so i needed the extra 30% dmg from being cloaked, Son.

Anyway whine that i'm defending it as a cloak user myself all you want i used cloak 2x in that 10 minute shadow war and still finished 2nd on my team so either step up and get better or avoid PvP.

nuarblack
04-07-2013, 10:58 AM
Okay so make it so that we have to camp in pvp and make it largely useless for advancing in pve, wonderful idea, you get a gold star. Seriously could those with extra chromosomes just sit in the corner and let the adults work this out? There is nothing wrong with cloak if they were to add a certain number of slots for abilities (frankly I have yet to see a bunch of cloak users the most abilities I've seen is blur which I think these people are and a noble cloaker ended their killing spree and thus they are frustrated.) per map.

I am just going to ignore your childish insult and say I dont think you got my "if any nerf" part. I don't think it is a big deal but I can see where it could theoretically be tweaked. Also I apologize I don't think my suggested tweak was clear. You could still move, just at crouch speed. If you played Halo 4 you would of understood this but, it was my mistake for assuming everyone would understand the reference. It doesn't make it worthless for the campaign or in matchmaking. It makes it more tactical to use though. I used it with a shotgun in halo 4 to great effect with out just camping, I actually hunted with it more often than not. It is actually how shotguns are meant to be used since in SWAT teams they are the point man with handguns and AR stacking behind and able to shoot over the point man who stays low. I hate comparing things to other games and making them a copy of them as much as anyone but if something works it works.

Honved
04-07-2013, 11:18 AM
I am just going to ignore your childish insult and say I dont think you got my "if any nerf" part. I don't think it is a big deal but I can see where it could theoretically be tweaked. Also I apologize I don't think my suggested tweak was clear. You could still move, just at crouch speed. If you played Halo 4 you would of understood this but, it was my mistake for assuming everyone would understand the reference. It doesn't make it worthless for the campaign or in matchmaking. It makes it more tactical to use though. I used it with a shotgun in halo 4 to great effect with out just camping, I actually hunted with it more often than not. It is actually how shotguns are meant to be used since in SWAT teams they are the point man with handguns and AR stacking behind and able to shoot over the point man who stays low. I hate comparing things to other games and making them a copy of them as much as anyone but if something works it works.

Not useful during pve? Hmm so instead of being able to move freely and get to cover I'll be able to slowly crouch towards my downed team mates to pick them up, well thank god non of the enemies use a lot of explosives or charges in co-op or in pve. Oh wait..... Yes I've played halo, a terrible game serious filled with plot holes and cartoonishly hilarious jumping. That would be like saying having the decoy say DECOY over it, or that overcharge should only work with pistols or that blur can't shoot while it is activated. Don't try to nerf a part of the game because you are too ignorant, oblivious, or down right too lazy to counter it. Blur is so much more devastating in pvp and as the one poster attempted to point out in the video cloak is not a game changer. Hell we can't even interact with anything without uncloaking so yes your idea is downright idiotic.

Honved
04-07-2013, 11:21 AM
Yeah, i want to like pvp but as it stands in competative mode ( not shadow war) Stealth is just too damn lame.
These people can't actually play they just hide behind stealth and run around with shotguns.
I say nerf it to death make it unplayable in the team deathmatch modes. I want them to rectally bleed.
I'm all about fps thats all i usually play and come out in first place most games but this ****... hiding behind stealth... naw ill pass.
Make it last 5-10 seconds with a 1 minute recharge in pvp.

And for all you whiners of the stealth that will cry about anybody wanting to adjust stealth in pvp... it's not going to affect your pve. So stop crying and being afraid of the nerf hammer.

As it is right now, its not even fun to play

Lol I had my clan sign on with all blur, 30-5 our win. I just don't see the point in nerfing something that doesn't give you anything extra.

Honved
04-07-2013, 11:22 AM
I find it hilarious how many noobs on this thread who obviously camp and cloak the whole time are saying the original poster is complaining/cant learn how to kill them..... when it clearly is the most lame and unbalanced thing on the multiplayer and clearly needs to be evened up a little bit.. 100% invisible is ridiculous... they should be very very slightly visible to a trained eye when moving or when you are close to them!!

They are, they even have a shadow and periodically flash blue.

UberNinja
04-07-2013, 11:22 AM
You got problems with cloakers?......
call 1-800-DECOY and get your own "Sensor Sweep"-Perk for your decoy to uncloak everyone.
Only 49,95$..... buy NOW!

Von Bach Industries

Yeah, use Decoy and Sensor Sweep Ego Boost

L3X
04-07-2013, 11:24 AM
EXACTLY. The EGO powers are balanced. The guy that started this thread has no intelligence whatsoever!

Psyten
04-07-2013, 11:27 AM
Cloak should be like planetside 2 cloak

invisible for the most part especialy long range but up close u can see it

(ps2 cloak does this kinda bad though its a bit too easy to see)

or i suppose we could always add some thermal scopes for mods :)

Honved
04-07-2013, 11:28 AM
Less than 100% is visible it's simple it's either invisible or visible no in between, as for killing the guy it was more a point of look how easy it is to follow where he is running and shoot to knock off his cloak.

Then third point for maximum fool the guy i cloaked to kill i did so from range which i could of done without cloak the sole reason was because i had been fighting him throughout the whole round and was aware that he had perked into alot of resistance perks so i needed the extra 30% dmg from being cloaked, Son.

Anyway whine that i'm defending it as a cloak user myself all you want i used cloak 2x in that 10 minute shadow war and still finished 2nd on my team so either step up and get better or avoid PvP.

Idk about anyone else but I see the cloak shimmer like predators. It depends on how focused on the match I am though. Yeah sometimes I get killed by a cloak user but the majority of the time it is those using blur that are wrecking the matches lol.

Honved
04-07-2013, 11:29 AM
Cloak should be like planetside 2 cloak

invisible for the most part especialy long range but up close u can see it

(ps2 cloak does this kinda bad though its a bit too easy to see)

or i suppose we could always add some thermal scopes for mods :)

I'm on board as long as it doesn't show name or health bars. ;P

thejx4
04-07-2013, 12:42 PM
Yeah, use Decoy and Sensor Sweep Ego Boost

What if you don't have decoy? I'm not using all of my points to spend across the board to another perk. Also, this blue flash apparently does not happen on PS3, as I've stared at someone who was cloaked. There's no indicators whatsoever.

Vvirgil
04-07-2013, 01:15 PM
You got problems with cloakers?......
call 1-800-DECOY and get your own "Sensor Sweep"-Perk for your decoy to uncloak everyone.
Only 49,95$..... buy NOW!

Von Bach Industries

All that needs to be done, either make cloak more visible, or make it do less damage on the first shot/move slower in cloak.

Bluntski
04-07-2013, 01:51 PM
All shadow war is now is cloak/shotty fotms. It is sad really.

Honved
04-07-2013, 01:52 PM
What if you don't have decoy? I'm not using all of my points to spend across the board to another perk. Also, this blue flash apparently does not happen on PS3, as I've stared at someone who was cloaked. There's no indicators whatsoever.

Well I play on ps3 and my friends and I have confirmed that yes you can see them (it's a predator kind of cloak) and there is a blue shimmer along with that fact that they still have a shadow.

Honved
04-07-2013, 01:54 PM
Honestly I can only come up with two conclusions because I rarely ever see some one using cloak. 1) People are inflating the truth or 2) you are all some very unlikely whiners. ;P

Edit:Just played a game with a newly made toon, blur shotgun and Ar went 8 and 5 victory, killed 2 people that were cloaked. Never died due a cloak & shotgun people are just whiners.

Bluntski
04-07-2013, 02:16 PM
Honestly I can only come up with two conclusions because I rarely ever see some one using cloak. 1) People are inflating the truth or 2) you are all some very unlikely whiners. ;P

Edit:Just played a game with a newly made toon, blur shotgun and Ar went 8 and 5 victory, killed 2 people that were cloaked. Never died due a cloak & shotgun people are just whiners.

What platform are you playing on?

I just played 3 shadow wars on PC and every single game was probably 75% cloak/shotty.

Honved
04-07-2013, 02:32 PM
What platform are you playing on?

I just played 3 shadow wars on PC and every single game was probably 75% cloak/shotty.

I'm playing on the ps3, lot of overcharge users. I think when the pvp crowd realizes that cloak is a survival power and see how well blur and overcharge are there will be a decrease in cloak. If I was playing this on my pc I'd be recording these pvp matches and telling people my favorite phrase: Get better. ;D

Btw second game with new toon, 3 cloak users on other team, died once due to me not paying attention to the cloak.

Edit: 3rd game cloaks DEFFINATELY look like the predator cloaks, kept track of them, 3 cloak users, one snuck up on me while I was pinning down the rest of their team. lol XD

Further Edit: Came in second in shadow war ego 50 blur user 11/4 with 4 caps, 2 neutralize 1 cloak death, people need to stop being so upset. Cloak is fine and I'm falling in love with blur again! XD

Lambchops
04-07-2013, 04:56 PM
Getting one perk just to counter a other is too much we been over this on the other forums aeekto >_>

aslo cloak+def perks+cloak only perks+ back stab perks. enjoy till the upcoming patch.

Why is it a bad thing? This is actually kind of ideal. Having one power more or less hardcounter another is the best way to balance things. Rock/paper/scissors, basically. It also means that there's a need for pretty much every power in PvP as they all fill fairly different utility functions.

I use Blur and I typically win and rank pretty high. Cloak isn't that big of a deal once you get used to it. That's true with stealth in most MMOs -- people always complain about it being broken but it's usually fairly easy to adapt to if you actually try.

Bluntski
04-07-2013, 04:57 PM
Decoy is laughable at best. The perk is terrible and the ONLY reason you would take it is for sensor sweep. That says a lot about the perk.

Honved
04-07-2013, 05:05 PM
Why is it a bad thing? This is actually kind of ideal. Having one power more or less hardcounter another is the best way to balance things. Rock/paper/scissors, basically. It also means that there's a need for pretty much every power in PvP as they all fill fairly different utility functions.

I use Blur and I typically win and rank pretty high. Cloak isn't that big of a deal once you get used to it. That's true with stealth in most MMOs -- people always complain about it being broken but it's usually fairly easy to adapt to if you actually try.

Very well put.

nuarblack
04-07-2013, 05:21 PM
Not useful during pve? Hmm so instead of being able to move freely and get to cover I'll be able to slowly crouch towards my downed team mates to pick them up, well thank god non of the enemies use a lot of explosives or charges in co-op or in pve. Oh wait..... Yes I've played halo, a terrible game serious filled with plot holes and cartoonishly hilarious jumping. That would be like saying having the decoy say DECOY over it, or that overcharge should only work with pistols or that blur can't shoot while it is activated. Don't try to nerf a part of the game because you are too ignorant, oblivious, or down right too lazy to counter it. Blur is so much more devastating in pvp and as the one poster attempted to point out in the video cloak is not a game changer. Hell we can't even interact with anything without uncloaking so yes your idea is downright idiotic.

Again I won't get my panties in a bunch if they don't nerf it. Seriously calm down I was just trying to suggest an alternative to some of the others out there that really are nerfs.

Halo has cartoonishly hilarious jumping? What do you call Defiance's Jumping? Realistic? Seriously that makes you lose all credibility. Also there are plenty of explosions in Halo, grenades are spammed much more than in Defiance and the invisibility worked just fine in it. I already crouch up and revive people a lot in co-op without even using cloak. Sounds like you just sucked at Halo 4 because, say what you want about its plot and style but, it is the most pvp balanced shooter I have played lately. I know people get all worked up with the Halo and boarderlands comparisons but the similarities are obvious I am sorry. Your equivocations for the other ego powers are no where even near the same as my suggested tweak. For one Decoy already takes far more thinking and tactics than any of the Ego powers so I would like to see a buff there instead really. Cause all others are pretty much activate and profit. Yes Blur is better in pvp I actually agree but you are making it sound like you wan't them to fullfill the same role, both as gap closers and I think that is boring and lacks diversity. If you want to be able to revive teammates in co-op cloak is worse than everything but OC in that regard because you become visible once trying to revive a teammate. Decoy is arguably the best for this hence all the revive perks near it too. Right now it feels like Cloak and Blur play the same style, Use them to get close so you can blast people with CQC weapons, which I have more of an issue than any imbalance or OPness. My main toon uses cloak so I'm not a cloak hater despite your assumption.

Paajx
04-07-2013, 05:44 PM
lol. that's a good one

Paajx
04-07-2013, 05:55 PM
So your having issues with cloak in pvp? Well then your really going to have a hard time once you get near and inside San Fransisco. You see, Dark Matter, the faction controlling the San Fran region, they use cloak and have perfected it to the point that it does not run out for them. Snipers will walk right up to you in full cloak and kill you in one shot. They will snipe you from afar, then re cloak.

Cloak is not OP. It is an integral part of the game. Don't like it? Too bad. Nerfing what is one of 4 major powers in this game that is completely science fiction based is not going to happen.

I played DAoC as well, and Infiltrators really sucked there as well. Then again, ITS JUST A GAME. GET OVER IT. GO OUTSIDE AND GET SOME EXERCISE. Nothing worse than a bunch of whining, immature little kids that cry when they don't get their way.

Spoken like a boss. I love reading these types of posts. makes my day. but yes, I do feel the pain of being killed by a cloaker. I myself, get mad at times, but then I think, "hey! I'll just kill the next cloaker I meet that I see killing a team mate." usually works for me. use your squad as bait, and you get the kill. unless there were like 10 of em. then you're in some serious schtako.

Honved
04-07-2013, 10:31 PM
Again I won't get my panties in a bunch if they don't nerf it. Seriously calm down I was just trying to suggest an alternative to some of the others out there that really are nerfs.

Halo has cartoonishly hilarious jumping? What do you call Defiance's Jumping? Realistic? Seriously that makes you lose all credibility. Also there are plenty of explosions in Halo, grenades are spammed much more than in Defiance and the invisibility worked just fine in it. I already crouch up and revive people a lot in co-op without even using cloak. Sounds like you just sucked at Halo 4 because, say what you want about its plot and style but, it is the most pvp balanced shooter I have played lately. I know people get all worked up with the Halo and boarderlands comparisons but the similarities are obvious I am sorry. Your equivocations for the other ego powers are no where even near the same as my suggested tweak. For one Decoy already takes far more thinking and tactics than any of the Ego powers so I would like to see a buff there instead really. Cause all others are pretty much activate and profit. Yes Blur is better in pvp I actually agree but you are making it sound like you wan't them to fullfill the same role, both as gap closers and I think that is boring and lacks diversity. If you want to be able to revive teammates in co-op cloak is worse than everything but OC in that regard because you become visible once trying to revive a teammate. Decoy is arguably the best for this hence all the revive perks near it too. Right now it feels like Cloak and Blur play the same style, Use them to get close so you can blast people with CQC weapons, which I have more of an issue than any imbalance or OPness. My main toon uses cloak so I'm not a cloak hater despite your assumption.

First off congrats at failing at recognizing sarcasim at my suggestions of how to nerf the others, secondly in halo with the invisibility you may reload and interact with the environment and remain cloaked, something you cannot do in defiance (by reload I mean collect ammo.) thirdly defiance is still cartoonish but not as much as the 3ton armored suit in halo. Lose all credibility, that's a good one have you even read any of my posts saying what cloak is for?! Obviously not if you think I believe it should be a gap closer, it's used to duck out and get to a safe reload area after making an assault since people don't watch their flanks.

nuarblack
04-07-2013, 11:22 PM
First off congrats at failing at recognizing sarcasim at my suggestions of how to nerf the others, secondly in halo with the invisibility you may reload and interact with the environment and remain cloaked, something you cannot do in defiance (by reload I mean collect ammo.) thirdly defiance is still cartoonish but not as much as the 3ton armored suit in halo. Lose all credibility, that's a good one have you even read any of my posts saying what cloak is for?! Obviously not if you think I believe it should be a gap closer, it's used to duck out and get to a safe reload area after making an assault since people don't watch their flanks.

I know you were being sarcastic. I was pointing out that in no way was my suggestion as ridiculous as you were trying to make it sound through such hyperbole. I am sorry for my assumption of what you felt cloak was for. I personally use it the same way as an escape more often than for offense. But people are not complaining about that. At least I haven't seen any QQ threads saying something like "Cloak is OP because I can never kill them before they Cloak and run away." They complain that you can activate it, charge across the map, Shoot someone in the back with a shotgun and insta kill with the right perk set up, and still have enough timer to go invisible again giving them time to duck behind a corner to escape teammate fire and let it recharge again. So I was merely suggesting a way in which you would have to decide what you used it for instead of being able to do both because you can move so fast with it on. I used Halo's for escape all the time I would activate as I ducked behind a corner and sneak away. In many cases I do the same thing in defiance as sometimes there are bullets already in flight so using cover or a roll as I activate it prevents incoming rounds from interrupting it. Maybe a better solution would be that attacking deactivates it and puts it on CD. Would make it more MMO like and not require a copy of Halo's invisibility ability. The differences from Halo are negligible as far as game play. 3 ton armored cyborg has more to with lore and story premise. Both games are sci-fi shooters that incorporate shield health systems with a medium TTK at least relative to COD and BF.

labotimy
04-08-2013, 06:51 AM
12 pages lol. so many people at the bottom of the scoreboard.

just so you guys know, i snipe way more often then cloak/shotty roam, so when you get outplayed you know its from skill.

Penguin
04-08-2013, 11:26 AM
I really dislike how shadow war, what could have been an epic fast paced battles, is just cloak/shotguns everywhere. But when you add stealth to a game, everyone cloaking everywhere is bound to happen.

Either way I'll just join the bandwagon and still try to enjoy it as much as I can.

Lightning
04-08-2013, 12:42 PM
EXACTLY. The EGO powers are balanced. The guy that started this thread has no intelligence whatsoever!

Read my post and response, idiot intelligence doesn't involve with gaming opinions. Learn to use "intelligence" when neccesary, because you totally failed with it.

MosesOfWar
04-08-2013, 01:12 PM
I don't believe any power, including cloak is overpowered. The reason why Cloak and Blur are dominating right now in PvP is because lack of communication and teamwork. Unfortunately, playing in random lobbies with not everyone having mics can make cloaking very frustrating, as a lone cloaker can "predator" a whole team. If everyone miked up and stayed in a group, cloakers would become ineffective, or in an RPG/MOBA sense they'd have to backdoor a team whilst the team is being distracted.

We have to remember, this game is as much of an RPG as it is a shooter and RPG's tend to have hard counters/teamwork for effective PvP and PvE. Think of it as a circle: Cloak Beats->Overcharge Beats->Blur Beats->Decoy Beats->Cloak (at lower levels since at higher EGO levels you can takes perks from other EGO power setups.). This is a little bit of an archaic model, but it's true. Skill isn't going to trump all in an RPG/Shooter, you're going to either have to play as a team, or being playing a class that counters another class. You can't expect your setup to be better than all setups... everything has a weakness. Think of it this way (stupid comparison and very RPG centric): if you are playing a game as a Wizard, and you're fighting a fire elemental, why would you use a Fire based spell against it if you know that it is resistance/immune to fire. If you hate cloak that bad, don't become mad that the power/perks that you're using is making life tough on you. You can either stick together (which makes cloaking/sawed off user's lives miserable) or choose the hard counter setup. RPGs/MOBAs have a metagame and this being a hybrid RPG/Shooter is no different.

Honved
04-08-2013, 01:19 PM
I don't believe any power, including cloak is overpowered. The reason why Cloak and Blur are dominating right now in PvP is because lack of communication and teamwork. Unfortunately, playing in random lobbies with no everyone having mics can make cloaking very frustrating, as a lone cloaker can "predator" a whole team. If everyone miked up and stayed in a group, cloakers would become ineffective, or in an RPG/MOBA sense they'd have to backdoor a team whilst the team is being distracted.

We have to remember, this game is as much of an RPG as it is a shooter and RPG's tend to have hard counters/teamwork for effective PvP and PvE. Think of it as a circle: Cloak Beats->Overcharge Beats->Blur Beats->Decoy Beats->Cloak (at lower levels). This is a little bit of an archaic model, but it's true. Skill isn't going to trump all in an RPG/Shooter, you're going to either have to play as a team, or being playing a class that counters another class. You can't expect your setup to be better than all setups... everything has a weakness. Think of it this way (stupid comparison and very RPG centric): if you are playing a game as a Wizard, and you're fighting a fire elemental, why would you use a Fire based spell against it if you know that it is resistance/immune to fire. If you hate cloak that bad, don't become mad that the power/perks that you're using is making life tough on you. You can either stick together (which makes cloaking/sawed off user's lives miserable) or choose the hard counter setup. RPGs/MOBAs have a metagame and this being a hybrid RPG/Shooter is no different.

I agree with everything that you just said, thank you sir for helping me regain a little faith in the defiance gaming community.

Thanx4tehfish
04-08-2013, 04:13 PM
What kind of shotguns are my fellow cloakers using? I got a fire scattergun but it takes me at least 2 shots from behind with shadow strike :(

thejx4
04-08-2013, 04:56 PM
I really dislike how shadow war, what could have been an epic fast paced battles, is just cloak/shotguns everywhere. But when you add stealth to a game, everyone cloaking everywhere is bound to happen.

Either way I'll just join the bandwagon and still try to enjoy it as much as I can.

Shotguns should always be a secondary/primary and Shadow War, as you'll need it when capturing points. But I've used my SAW and Firestorm AR quite a lot, I even have about 30 sniper kills out of 10 Shadow Wars. Only way I stay alive in PVP is pathway camping with anything but a shotgun. If all you have is Cloak in Shadow War, you're probably gonna get ****ed up. Overkill is the way to go. Cloak is actually balanced because it's used more as a tactic, than an unfair advantage because there aren't tight corners everywhere. I used cloak once, and stood at the capture three enemies were trying to take. My friend was up on a hill. All 3 of them were looking around trying to find me, and my friend picked off one of them, and my shotgun finished the job.

Plebiscite
04-08-2013, 05:07 PM
OH yes, another "OP" thread to respond to.
Cloak is fine there are counters to it; run AoE grenades, Decoy, Shotguns, Braincells, and oh eye balls...

AND for those of you around here who ***** about having to run a perk to counter a perk, played any other MMO in your life?

/endthread

www.twitch.tv/plebiscite

Goomba
04-08-2013, 05:11 PM
Try this cool tip from a single mother of five!

Infectors lock onto cloaked players so you guys should do that.

thejx4
04-08-2013, 06:13 PM
Try this cool tip from a single mother of five!

Infectors lock onto cloaked players so you guys should do that.

Which just leads to more Infector spam and causes more problems

Mynx
04-08-2013, 06:48 PM
this is were a LMG with a high clip comes in, just mow them down with that lol

Goomba
04-08-2013, 07:11 PM
Which just leads to more Infector spam and causes more problemsGet an AR to shoot people with infectors. Or LMG. Or SMG! Holy moly so many options. Also fix zoom sensitivity.

Honved
04-08-2013, 09:06 PM
Don't bother these people simply want to slowly nerf everything that they don't use. This way they don't have to try and can just claim to be the best. They had too much lame sauce.

Kroktar
04-08-2013, 09:50 PM
As shotgun/AR cloak player...i felt like Shadow Wars its fine because every weapon have a role...you even see snipers.

But in Waterfront i felt like...everyone is cloaked and the first one to decloak dies... I think decoy could use a buff so people could actually use it and detect players.

Honved
04-08-2013, 10:06 PM
As shotgun/AR cloak player...i felt like Shadow Wars its fine because every weapon have a role...you even see snipers.

But in Waterfront i felt like...everyone is cloaked and the first one to uncloak dies... I think decoy could use a buff so people could actually use it and detect players.

I'm going to make a decoy toon tomorrow to see if it's as bad as people say.

Goomba
04-08-2013, 10:47 PM
I'm going to make a decoy toon tomorrow to see if it's as bad as people say.I assume people don't know or forget that you can hit Special Powers Button again to switch places. It's pretty good for juking.

Kroktar
04-08-2013, 10:53 PM
And cooldowns? Blur seems to be way higher than cloak :/

Kwatos
04-08-2013, 11:03 PM
I feel the best use of cloak for me is to refill my shields, the spell probably needs a nerf somehow, but right now, its just really there to refill my 1800 shield and occasionally get in on people. I don't have a problem getting in on people.

Honved
04-08-2013, 11:41 PM
I assume people don't know or forget that you can hit Special Powers Button again to switch places. It's pretty good for juking.

Holy crap they can do that?! O_O

Honved
04-08-2013, 11:44 PM
And cooldowns? Blur seems to be way higher than cloak :/

Blur has points to cool it down, also you gain more from blur then you do with cloak. Blur: You move at the speed of an atv and do melee damage equal to or greater then a shotgun compared to a predator cloak that occasionally shimmers and still has a shadow. If you can spot darkmatter snipers you can spot cloak users. The difference is the cloak users are usually moving.

Aeekto
04-09-2013, 01:28 AM
Holy crap they can do that?! O_O

yep........ it gets even explained in the tutorial btw ;)
but people tend to not listen to their EGO.... because of that i even saw many people shooting the enemy decoys in tutorial when they had to punch them :D
And that teleporting is one of the reasons why there once was a thread where someone said itīs OP....... just place your decoy well hidden, engage someone and "bazinga" teleport away. Or you can do it the other way..... people know itīs a decoy and donīt shoot it and you teleport there and "bazinga" shoot them. It helps for escaping too.... just turn you camera while running away and let your decoy run into a different direction... if the enemy follows you, just teleport, if not you are safe too.

So instead of learning all mechanics and possibilities people start crying about something being OP and other things (they donīt know how they work) are useless..... but the truth is, decoy is realy good if you know how to use it.

MosesOfWar
04-09-2013, 07:45 AM
yep........ it gets even explained in the tutorial btw ;)
but people tend to not listen to their EGO.... because of that i even saw many people shooting the enemy decoys in tutorial when they had to punch them :D
And that teleporting is one of the reasons why there once was a thread where someone said itīs OP....... just place your decoy well hidden, engage someone and "bazinga" teleport away. Or you can do it the other way..... people know itīs a decoy and donīt shoot it and you teleport there and "bazinga" shoot them. It helps for escaping too.... just turn you camera while running away and let your decoy run into a different direction... if the enemy follows you, just teleport, if not you are safe too.

So instead of learning all mechanics and possibilities people start crying about something being OP and other things (they donīt know how they work) are useless..... but the truth is, decoy is realy good if you know how to use it.

Decoy is the most strategic of the EGO powers any many people that play shooters don't like strategy.. They like run and gun, twitch shooting. You've been spot on with you posts as it seems like many people don't want to try other EGO powers, or combinations, but rather want to make the EGO power that they use superior to all others. What happens with OP claims is that devs under power, or try to balance the "OP" ability, then another ability becomes "OP" and people complain about it. If something is legitimately broken, like the claims of people staying invisible (seems like a problem NOT dealing with cloak, since there's been claims of people using Overcharge or Blur and being purely invisible) than it is an issue to be addressed, but to say something is OP and not take the time to try additional tactics, or play styles isn't necessarily fair. This game is not just a twitch shooter, where pure skill trumps all, so expecting all EGO powers to be equal on the field of battle is most likely the reason why people are frustrated; if you're looking for something akin to that, there's games called "Planetside 2" or "MAG", which allow you to play in massive battles online, based purely on shooting mechanics. This game is as much RPG as it is a shooter and because of that, there is going to be a semi-class system present.

This class system instills two things: a rock/paper/scissors what beats what mentality and also it instills cooperative group gameplay for success. The reason why the meta is focused on Cloak/Blur Shotgunning/Infectors is because teams are unorganized and players are just fleshing out how PvP truly works. There's a reason for 5 loadouts! Play as a team and communicate; shotgun cloakers are like "Rogues" or "Assassin's"; sticking together in a group and communicating effectively nullifies their ability to meticulously take out your team. If you do that, their not going to appear and kill off people one-by-one unless they are very skilled; if anything, they'll pop out of cloak, get a kill and then get killed themselves. You're team will light them up and sawed-off take FOREVER to reload. Doing damage to a Cloaked enemy drops their cloak and doing enough damage, nullifies their Cloak EGO and places it on cooldown.

If you read through the skills and the perks, you'll noticed that each plays a role in a team environment and that they compliment each other in groups. Blur deals primarily with boosting physical attributes, ex. your typical "Warrior" role if you will. Overcharge is sustained DPS, think of it as a caster, or "Mage/Wizard". Decoy is your healer and battlefield controller, their abilities buff themselves, buff their allies and help with overall strategy; they aren't the most glamorous, but probably the most useful EGO in a team setting - these are your "Clerics". Cloak revolves around utility, or striking - its single, heavy hits; these are your "Rogues/Thieves". In the typical RPG circle, Warriors trump Healers, Healers trump Rogues, Rogues trump Mages and Mages trump Warriors. In Defiance, this is no different: Decoy (Cleric) has multiple perks to combat Cloak (Rogue); Cloak (Rogue) has multiple perks to combat Overcharge (Mage and which seems to be the biggest group griping about Cloak); Overcharge (Mage) has multiple perks to combat Blur (Warrior); Blur (Warrior) has multiple perks to combat Decoy (Cleric). Changing the balance of these roles will end up making the PvP Vanilla and boring; the reason why Cloak is ineffective in Shadow War, btw, is because it takes teamwork to take an objective...

I get it that there's different weapons in this game and that everyone can use everything, but you need to play to you EGO's strengths and find players willing to play as a team to be successful in PvP; try also to truly understand the concepts of the game - this isn't meant or designed to be played as every EGO is on a level playing field in PvP that takes the "RPG" out of the game. I bet if those complaining about Cloak/Shotgunners teamed up together and created a functioning PvP group with headsets and team roles, they'd see that Cloak isn't OP.

And I play with each EGO power (I constantly Respec to see how the game plays with each power). I've preferred Overcharge, but I've taken a liking to Decoy recently. So I'm not a Cloak fanboy, just a long time RPG player that has been waiting for an awesome PvP RPG that takes a little skill to understand and play :-D.

Goomba
04-09-2013, 07:49 AM
I have no idea what the hell you're talking about because every single ability has damage reduction thrown in with it and decoy has more than the other three. Also if you think shooters don't have strategy I guess my advice would be to stop playing CoD.

Also fix zoom sensitivity.

edit: the game isn't rock/paper/scissors. It's purely skill based and knowing how and when to use abilities is part of that skill.

MosesOfWar
04-09-2013, 08:31 AM
edit: the game isn't rock/paper/scissors. It's purely skill based and knowing how and when to use abilities is part of that skill.

Please explain.

Goomba
04-09-2013, 08:33 AM
Well, like I said everyone can have a lot of health. Cloakers are very much like rogues, sure, but they can also still get non-burst weapons. Decoy just lets you warp around or take less fire if you trick someone. Blur lets you go fast and punch stuff harder. None of them define you.

Fix zoom sensitivity.

MosesOfWar
04-09-2013, 08:58 AM
Well, like I said everyone can have a lot of health. Cloakers are very much like rogues, sure, but they can also still get non-burst weapons. Decoy just lets you warp around or take less fire if you trick someone. Blur lets you go fast and punch stuff harder. None of them define you.

Cloakers can get non-burst weapon, but why not just use Overcharge? Are you cloaking for utility.. You're still like a thief or Rogue. Why would some with cloak use an automatic weapon when they get such a great bonus for burst weapons? Why not use Overcharge and get a 30% damage bonus that sustained through a clip?

Let's say you give everyone the same guns, same skills, but different EGOs. Decoy has an advantage over Cloak due to outright nullifying the EGO power. Cloak has an advantage over Overcharge due to the ability to close distance, or utilize range to ambush an Overcharge user. Overcharge has the advantage over Blur, because, while Blur movement is fast, it has to close the distance to an Overcharge user and be susceptible to Overcharge fire, to be ultimately effective. Finally, Blur has the advantage over Decoy due to Blur being able to one shot the Decoy and chase down the Decoy user, who no longer has an effective ability.

Yes you can move different perks around to accompany different setups, such as the Blur EGO/Defensive Perks near Decoy and use the Infector/BMG setup, or use Overcharge EGO/Elemental and Orientation perks of Cloak/Elemental Weapon setup... Or even Decoy/Explosive Bonuses from Overcharge AND Blur/Rockets, Detonators and Grenades... You can do all that, but still, there's a Rock/Paper/Scissors to EGO abilities and certain EGOs have advantages over others. It's not necessarily that you can't win in a battle against another EGO if you're more skilled than that player, but the other player has the advantange.

Goomba
04-09-2013, 09:03 AM
Decoy user can get bio-grenades for blur. Overcharge can get a burst shotgun and get two bursts with the second doing significantly more damage and a 1.8k shield and defensive perks so they can't be bursted down as easily. Decoy is the only hard counter and it's a pretty weak one, it's more of a bonus than anything.

MosesOfWar
04-09-2013, 09:12 AM
Decoy user can get bio-grenades for blur. Overcharge can get a burst shotgun and get two bursts with the second doing significantly more damage and a 1.8k shield and defensive perks so they can't be bursted down as easily. Decoy is the only hard counter and it's a pretty weak one, it's more of a bonus than anything.

You're proving my point. EGOs have certain disadvantages against other EGOs. You're demonstrating ways to "compensate" for these disadvantages.

Honved
04-09-2013, 09:39 AM
You're proving my point. EGOs have certain disadvantages against other EGOs. You're demonstrating ways to "compensate" for these disadvantages.

Don't waste your time, goomba simply want's to have "the best way" to be at the top without having to do, or try anything. Lazy and incompetent gamer trying to change an already balanced system.

I'll make a deal with all you complaining about cloak, instead of going invisible have us appear friendly both on screen and on the minimap instead. See how well that goes, after all you'll be able to see us quite fine.

Goomba
04-09-2013, 09:47 AM
Don't waste your time, goomba simply want's to have "the best way" to be at the top without having to do, or try anything. Lazy and incompetent gamer trying to change an already balanced system.haha what?

And yes there are ways to make up for disadvantages of EGO powers. You were acting like they were hard counters and you need a decoy to counter overcharge or something. That's not even remotely true.

Honved
04-09-2013, 09:59 AM
haha what?

And yes there are ways to make up for disadvantages of EGO powers. You were acting like they were hard counters and you need a decoy to counter overcharge or something. That's not even remotely true.

Really? Then why is it that it seems you're the one out of five that clamors for nerfs without trying to actually fight it well. I counter Cloak fine, because of my attention to detail. Granted they do kill me, when I'm not paying attention.

This is where the difference comes in. Me getting killed by a cloak/shotgun: Damn it I knew that was gonna happen. (chuckles.)

You getting killed by cloak shotgun: Wow that seems too good, I think I'll come up with a way to nerf it for pvp, give every specific equipment to cancel it out without doing any research on the power because it's invisible and clearly hard to spot!

Might as well call me Mario 'cause I'm gonna be jumping on your head all day! ;D

Goomba
04-09-2013, 10:13 AM
Really? Then why is it that it seems you're the one out of five that clamors for nerfs without trying to actually fight it well. I counter Cloak fine, because of my attention to detail. Granted they do kill me, when I'm not paying attention.

This is where the difference comes in. Me getting killed by a cloak/shotgun: Damn it I knew that was gonna happen. (chuckles.)

You getting killed by cloak shotgun: Wow that seems too good, I think I'll come up with a way to nerf it for pvp, give every specific equipment to cancel it out without doing any research on the power because it's invisible and clearly hard to spot!

Might as well call me Mario 'cause I'm gonna be jumping on your head all day! ;D
Where did I talk about how cloak needed to be nerfed? I used cloak since the beginning and started to try out different powers because people talked about how terrible cloak was and so far they've been wrong. What gave you the idea that I was arguing for a nerf?

Edit: fix zoomed sens

Honved
04-09-2013, 10:53 AM
Where did I talk about how cloak needed to be nerfed? I used cloak since the beginning and started to try out different powers because people talked about how terrible cloak was and so far they've been wrong. What gave you the idea that I was arguing for a nerf?

Edit: fix zoomed sens

Your Here's the best blah blah cloak, they are nerf. It's fine the way it it.

P.S. 8 minuets until it's time to play defiance!

Goomba
04-09-2013, 10:56 AM
Your Here's the best blah blah cloak, they are nerf. It's fine the way it it.

P.S. 8 minuets until it's time to play defiance!

What? Stop acting like a fool.

fix zoom sense

Honved
04-09-2013, 11:17 AM
What? Stop acting like a fool.

fix zoom sense

Talking to yourself again I see, listen if you want to balance something then you make it on par with everything else, not worse, or not better. I say this because you seem to have trouble understanding the word balance.

Honestly if you can't comprehend that then please keep these ideas to yourself.

Otis Spunks
04-09-2013, 05:46 PM
To be honest they need to take some hints from other popular shooters to help against Invis. Perks might be able to work but I feel that is still unfair that someone has to alter their perks just to help against invis users.

Other Ego powers have an obvious flaw in which all users of the other ego powers can be seen at all times while they are using their powers both physically and via radar so other players can quickly and effectively remove themselves from the effectiveness of those ego powers. Invis players can hold their invis while sprinting avoiding the radar and being seen while also maintaining the same if not more damage output while in camo.

Some things that might help equal the playing field of the ego powers would be making it so invis players will show on radar if sprinting/rolling within a certain proximity of an enemy player. This would force the camo user to plan their attacks and retreats instead of getting free op kills whenever the ego power is up. Another option is to decrease the damage output by a moderate amount while invis making it so that camo users have to really focus on critical hits instead of running around willy nilly wielding a no skill shotty.

Camo can work but not they way it is now. Pvp could be sooo much more fun if invis were revisited by the design staff at Trion to help make it balace with the other ego powers.

Honved
04-09-2013, 05:59 PM
To be honest they need to take some hints from other popular shooters to help against Invis. Perks might be able to work but I feel that is still unfair that someone has to alter their perks just to help against invis users.

Other Ego powers have an obvious flaw in which all users of the other ego powers can be seen at all times while they are using their powers both physically and via radar so other players can quickly and effectively remove themselves from the effectiveness of those ego powers. Invis players can hold their invis while sprinting avoiding the radar and being seen while also maintaining the same if not more damage output while in camo.

Some things that might help equal the playing field of the ego powers would be making it so invis players will show on radar if sprinting/rolling within a certain proximity of an enemy player. This would force the camo user to plan their attacks and retreats instead of getting free op kills whenever the ego power is up. Another option is to decrease the damage output by a moderate amount while invis making it so that camo users have to really focus on critical hits instead of running around willy nilly wielding a no skill shotty.

Camo can work but not they way it is now. Pvp could be sooo much more fun if invis were revisited by the design staff at Trion to help make it balace with the other ego powers.

Full of awful ideas, while we're at it let's make it so that decoy says DECOY over it and you can't teleport to it. Overcharge will only work on pistols and we'll remove the instant reload, and blur won't add melee damage and if you shoot it deactivates the ego. Sound like fun?
No? Well that's what's going to happen if you all keep clamoring for nerfs.

Otis Spunks
04-09-2013, 06:10 PM
Full of awful ideas, while we're at it let's make it so that decoy says DECOY over it and you can't teleport to it. Overcharge will only work on pistols and we'll remove the instant reload, and blur won't add melee damage and if you shoot it deactivates the ego. Sound like fun?
No? Well that's what's going to happen if you all keep clamoring for nerfs.

No Decoy should look like you but show no nameplate, that way those who pay attention can catch the fake.
Overcharge makes you glow quiet profusely so spotting someone with it is very easy, not to mention the extra damage isn't "THAT" great unless you can get crits.
Blur is in the same boat as Overcharge in that they are very easy to see visibly and can be seen on radar as well therefore can be avoided if seen before they see you.
Cloak as far as I know has no downside other than it doesn't last forever(lol) or that it turns off for a very very short amount of time when you shoot (making no difference when their intended target is already dead). And if it does have a meaningful downside than it makes no difference in the grand scheme of things.

Subtle defects like being seen on radar while sprinting near another players of the opposite side or dealing less normal damage to where you need to focus on crits is not that big a deal. So if a player is paying attention to the radar they can use it to help against the camo user or when hit they have the ability to react due to taking a little less damage. I just personally don't agree to the uber effectiveness of the Cloak ability in comparison to the other ego powers.

EDIT:

To be honest I would make the defects like this for all Ego powers:

- Cloak -
Pro: Stay physically invisible to those around you to allow for uninterrupted map travel and surprise kills.

Con: Show on radar of a nearby enemy when sprinting or rolling, and reviled for shot time after shooting. (Show only to the nearby enemy(s) not to the enemy team.) (Perks help to relieve radar proximity handicap)

- Decoy -
Pro: Release an image of yourself that will attract near by enemies allowing you to fool them for a short time. You are also allowed to teleport to your image 1 times with in the time frame your image is active.

Con:Hologram of yourself looks like you but shows no nameplate and shimmers when hit with a certain amount of damage. (Perks help to relieve shimmer Handicap)

- Blur -
Pros: Gain a boost of speed and melee strength.

Cons: Glow when in usage and a slight degradation in accuracy forcing the user to get closer to help with grouping. (perks help to relieve accuracy Handicap)

- Overcharge -
Pros: Gain a slight increase in base damage and a significant increase in Crit Damage.

Con: Glowing Arms with small (insignificant) increase in normal damage and a slightly slower reload time (perks help to relieve reload handicap).

Honved
04-09-2013, 06:14 PM
No Decoy should look like you but show no nameplate, that way those who pay attention can catch the fake.
Overcharge makes you glow quiet profusely so spotting someone with it is very easy, not to mention the extra damage isn't "THAT" great unless you can get crits.
Blur is in the same boat as Overcharge in that they are very easy to see visibly and can be seen on radar as well therefore can be avoided if seen before they see you.
Cloak as far as I know has no downside other than it doesn't last forever(lol). And if it does have a downside than it makes no difference in the grand scheme of things.

Subtle defects like being seen on radar while sprinting near another players of the opposite side or dealing less normal damage to where you need to focus on crits is not that big a deal. So if a player is paying attention to the radar they can use it to help against the camo user or when hit they have the ability to react due to taking a little less damage. I just personally don't agree to the uber effectiveness of the Cloak ability in comparison to the other ego powers.

It isn't uber effective, homing weapons still home in on you, you still have a shimmer even though people are too lazy to try and find it. It is fine, if cloak gets nerfed at all I'm pushing for everything else to get nerfed too. It would only be "fair" as you and a whole five or six others keep saying. There is nothing wrong with any of the egos.

TSCreed
04-09-2013, 06:15 PM
Quit *****ing somethings OP because you cannot figure out a strategy against it. Every game people complain about "OP" because they either A: Suck, B: Run around like Rambo blowing things up and not playing as a group or C: Are incapable of critical thinking.

So if you're whining that ANY of the 4 are "OP"; please select your current multiple choice of butthurt and move along. Know how many times I've been sticky screwed by lobbers? Guess what, that's part of war kids! You die! You get blown up at inopportune times! Snipers camp and sit quietly waiting for you to stop running so they can pop your head off. Remember Predator? Yeah he screwed **** up didn't he? Know why HE WAS CLOAKED! Ever see someone with Blur come running up and melee kill you in 2x hits? This **** actually happens; it's not OP it's HOW IT IS.

ELO2g
04-09-2013, 06:16 PM
I have no problems with cloak users at all. You just have to make some effort to spot people who are approaching you early or try to destealth them with a shotgun, it's damn easy.

Otis Spunks
04-09-2013, 06:32 PM
Quit *****ing somethings OP because you cannot figure out a strategy against it. Every game people complain about "OP" because they either A: Suck, B: Run around like Rambo blowing things up and not playing as a group or C: Are incapable of critical thinking.

So if you're whining that ANY of the 4 are "OP"; please select your current multiple choice of butthurt and move along. Know how many times I've been sticky screwed by lobbers? Guess what, that's part of war kids! You die! You get blown up at inopportune times! Snipers camp and sit quietly waiting for you to stop running so they can pop your head off. Remember Predator? Yeah he screwed **** up didn't he? Know why HE WAS CLOAKED! Ever see someone with Blur come running up and melee kill you in 2x hits? This **** actually happens; it's not OP it's HOW IT IS.

I don't really have problems dealing with it, but that doesn't mean I agree with how it was developed. I do quiet well and I refuse to use my Ego power at all simply for the challenge and the fact that I don't need it. But I can still see flaws in that power. To be honest 9 times out of 10 its the Camo users that are so butt hurt about the talks of a nerf, and those that don't use it and still gets angry when someone suggests a nerf they are the salty grumpy gamers that just don't like when someone has a negative opinion. When someone asks for Balance they are asking for a learning curve balance, it is clearly harder to learn to deal with Cloak than it is the other powers therefore it is clearly unbalanced.

Coraline
04-09-2013, 06:45 PM
Why is it in pvp you can't tell when someone is cloaked?
In Pve San Francisco, there are snipers that cloak and you can clearly see their outline and where they are going?
Maybe this should be added to pvp? I truly don't know how to fix it besides countering it with other skills.

Otis Spunks
04-09-2013, 06:57 PM
Easiest way to put it is that when it comes to the other ego powers I don't need to use specific perks to counter act them, I don't have to use lock on weapons to locate them. In comparison to cloak with the other Ego powers there is a far steeper leaning curve and requirements to deal with Cloak effectively than the other Ego powers. I can get away from overcharge and Blur users easily because I can see them and only need focus on my navigation skills. Decoy is also easy to understand, see a person moving and being shot at but making no attempt to avoid it? stay away from it and look out for it to turn into an actually player. Cloak on the other hand requires things other than simple knowledge, it requires forethought, weapons and perks, and to be honest paranoia. This is how Cloak is over powered, in that the learning curve to counter it is larger than the other powers. (Not to mention Draw distance helps camo users from being seen by shimmers)

Honved
04-09-2013, 08:26 PM
- Cloak -
Pro: Stay physically invisible to those around you to allow for uninterrupted map travel and surprise kills.

Con: Show on radar of a nearby enemy when sprinting or rolling, and reviled for shot time after shooting. (Show only to the nearby enemy(s) not to the enemy team.) (Perks help to relieve radar proximity handicap)



WE DO UNCLOAK WHEN WE SHOOT! Jesus, someone show this noob the door.

Otis Spunks
04-09-2013, 08:35 PM
WE DO UNCLOAK WHEN WE SHOOT! Jesus, someone show this noob the door.

Hey noob try reading, I said that you did DERRR! THose aren't only changes they are also restatements.

FrozenWinter
04-09-2013, 09:08 PM
I don't like cloak. I get exploded every time I use it.

TSCreed
04-09-2013, 09:22 PM
EGO Ark Hunters are suppose to be super soldiers, so you're going to complain about Super Soldiers having super abilities? Also someone else commented that they like the challenge and refuse to use their EGO power? Well good for you, that's your journey; it holds no bearing on the overall aspect of the PVP side of this game which is super powered soldiers killing each other with super powered guns.

It's not the skills that need to get nerfed, it's the players that need to get better. I have every right to become peeved that yet again whiners move in to QQ about being killed in PVP. I've seen so many games turn to **** because they dumb down and over-tweak PVP, Runs and Skills for players with lower IQ's rather than force those same players to improve their critical thinking skills and ability to adapt to situations.

I can make an argument that any skill or power is OP in some given situation or way, anyone can because from the victim perspective it always can appear to be unfair. From the victor perspective it can appear to be unstoppable; both are incorrect overall assessments and both are flawed forms of logic. So, for whatever reason you THINK any of it needs to be nerfed; your argument is invalid.

Reason
04-09-2013, 09:38 PM
Just finished a waterfront.
Entire enemy team running shotguns and cloak...talk about boring.

Honved
04-09-2013, 09:42 PM
Hey noob try reading, I said that you did DERRR! THose aren't only changes they are also restatements.

Doubt it, fail noob is epic fail.

Honved
04-09-2013, 09:44 PM
EGO Ark Hunters are suppose to be super soldiers, so you're going to complain about Super Soldiers having super abilities? Also someone else commented that they like the challenge and refuse to use their EGO power? Well good for you, that's your journey; it holds no bearing on the overall aspect of the PVP side of this game which is super powered soldiers killing each other with super powered guns.

It's not the skills that need to get nerfed, it's the players that need to get better. I have every right to become peeved that yet again whiners move in to QQ about being killed in PVP. I've seen so many games turn to **** because they dumb down and over-tweak PVP, Runs and Skills for players with lower IQ's rather than force those same players to improve their critical thinking skills and ability to adapt to situations.

I can make an argument that any skill or power is OP in some given situation or way, anyone can because from the victim perspective it always can appear to be unfair. From the victor perspective it can appear to be unstoppable; both are incorrect overall assessments and both are flawed forms of logic. So, for whatever reason you THINK any of it needs to be nerfed; your argument is invalid.

I agree, just finished playing a bunch of pvp and once again hunting down the shimmering cloak users.

Kwatos
04-09-2013, 10:11 PM
Rock Paper Scissors is a hard game.

shotgunEX
04-10-2013, 02:00 AM
It's just the fact that when you cloak and shoot then go back invisible. I have no problem with them doing extra damage or all that. But if they shoot while cloaked they should forfeit the rest of their duration. Shooting then running away while invisible is pretty OP and anyone with a brain can see how that is a little unfair. The only thing I say change about is cloak is make it so that your first shot in cloak is your last. Because if you think about it, it's basically overcharge while invisible as-is right now. Make it more cloak-like.

Exes
04-10-2013, 02:04 AM
There is a reason why invisibility often slows you down, is quite short and will reveal you after the first dmg done/received in most games. Combined with heavy close range weapons as shotguns it's just very deadly. Just hope Trion wont go nerfing shotguns, they are fine as long as you can't get perma stealth after each shot running into everybodys face.

Kurze
04-10-2013, 08:36 PM
Doubt it, fail noob is epic fail.
when I read it I understood his point just fine. just because you are mentally challenged doesnt mean the rest of the world has your same reading comprehension problems.

labotimy
04-10-2013, 09:19 PM
the level of collective butt hurt in this thread is lulz worthy.

MosesOfWar
04-11-2013, 09:59 AM
It's just the fact that when you cloak and shoot then go back invisible. I have no problem with them doing extra damage or all that. But if they shoot while cloaked they should forfeit the rest of their duration. Shooting then running away while invisible is pretty OP and anyone with a brain can see how that is a little unfair. The only thing I say change about is cloak is make it so that your first shot in cloak is your last. Because if you think about it, it's basically overcharge while invisible as-is right now. Make it more cloak-like.

This is a horrible analogy.. So when my Decoy, which can be used a Teleport beacon, gets shot once.. should it disappear? I love dropping a grenade at my feet, then teleporting away for some idiot to come pointblank to me and get pwned. I run a Decoy build online and when I suspect a Cloaker is around I shoot out my Decoy and throw a grenade at my feet... the *BOOM* done. I can take a hit from a shotgun and do the same thing due to my perks.. Cloakers are glass cannons and if they pull that move on me, typically a direct hit from a 3K grenade is lights out. With your logic however, EGO powers should be turned off as soon as an offensive power happens. So, to make games easier for Cloakers, should my ego power be disabled as soon as I throw a grenade at my feet? I think the answer would be no. Should Blur be disabled after their first melee? Should Overcharge be disabled as soon as they take damage?

This makes no sense. Why should Cloak be penalized for people using it effectively, instead of players finding why their loadout/setup isn't working effectively? If you're getting owned by cloak, find out why instead of complaining about it. Penalizing an EGO power because you don't understand how to counter it is just laziness. If you don't want to be pwned by Cloak, don't use Overcharge... If so many players stopped using Overcharge, and started using powers like, DECOY, less people would use Cloak, because its level of effect would greatly diminish. If you don't want to run a build that counters the build your getting owned by, don't complain. If the developers build in a Hard Counter, for small maps and you refuse to use it.. Why are there complaints? I feel like Cloak users should have a justifiable argument for how Decoy renders their ability useless with a button press for 30 Meters (90 freaken feet.. 90 Feet.. That's well outside of shotgun range by the way) and nullification for being backstabbed AND i don't even have to aim it.. But they aren't complaining. Why? Because so many players STILL play Overcharge and Cloak > Overcharge. Just like Decoy > Cloak. Rather than coming to terms with this fact, players don't want to adapt and play a Counter to what is frustrating them most, they just want to be able to kill Cloak with Overcharge.. Even though the game has been designed to stack the cards against an Overcharge user, in favor of a Cloak user.. Just like the game stacks the cards in favor of a Decoy user over a Cloak user. I don't understand why all of this is so difficult to fathom.

fang1192
04-11-2013, 10:34 AM
Snip (Awesome logic/reasoning)


Please stop using logic, i like the current meta. I use Cloak and an AR and for some reason people insist on chasing me into the corners of the map away from their teammates so even if i screw up and dont kill them immediately i have an immediate second chance while their shield hasnt recharged or is slowly recharging.

Baron_Blunder
04-12-2013, 01:43 AM
I'm inclined to think Cloak in pvp matches is the strongest skill. I've certainly switched to it after playing around with the other options, especially Decoy which can be hilarious.

For me, the issue isn't people in Cloak being hidden or having a great weapon - it's their full mobility whilst doing so. I'd be inclined to reduce the speed of someone in Cloak by 33% or so... something to make it a bit more tactical without being a total nerf of a fun ability. It might discourage some of the "charge in and Shotgun to the face" brigade (which to me doesn't feel very in character for Cloak), and lend itself more to sniper / lurking in wait sort of feel?

Aeekto
04-12-2013, 06:02 AM
Cloak isnīt OP and isnīt the strongest skill.... just get a team where 2-3 run with decoy+sensor sweep.... that will make cloak pretty much useless.
Itīs the first match i tried a more supportive build yesterday and 2 other had the same idea with decoy while the other team had 100% cloakers (2 of them switch weapons and EGO Power near end because they noticed shotgun+cloak got useless).
The cloakers had their skill wasted most of the time, because they got instantly uncloaked.
Only died once to a stupid mistake, because iīm still too much "hit&run" and "in your face" since i havenīt fully adapted to this new role yet (again, it was my first match with this build).

Additional info for people who claim 30m isnīt much:
Itīs 30m in every direction..... so itīs a 60m circle where people get uncloaked (thatīs 1/3 of the map by just one person..... and there are allways hotspots for best use)

Here is the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYF8IiovIuM

Escalith
04-12-2013, 06:33 AM
~Snip~

A bit ironic that your only death is to a cloaker, altho that one used an SMG. ;D

I do like the combo you're running though, look fun. :)

Aeekto
04-12-2013, 06:48 AM
A bit ironic that your only death is to a cloaker, altho that one used an SMG. ;D

I do like the combo you're running though, look fun. :)

As i said, the death had nothing to do with cloaking, but with my own stupidity...... was still mindless running into the enemy bulk like i had my hit&run build.... and i forgot to use decoy just before i ran around the corner.
And you can see very good, that i didnīt run into one guy, but the entire enemy team which shot at me and only the guy with the SMG got the killshot :p


Interesting thing is, i created that build not for killing, but for support and surpressing and still managed to score 5 kills and get on rank 2.
I bet if someone who is more used to this type of gameplay can get rank 1 easily without one single kill, just by supporting the team since you get a lot of assist points.


And yes, itīs absolutly fun to see all those cloakers beeing clueless what to do :D

DC Zero
04-12-2013, 07:33 AM
Nice build, Aeekto. I have a support loadout that I use in observatory with sensor sweep and a spanner trapper. I usually go more offensive in waterfront though.

MosesOfWar
04-12-2013, 08:13 AM
As i said, the death had nothing to do with cloaking, but with my own stupidity...... was still mindless running into the enemy bulk like i had my hit&run build.... and i forgot to use decoy just before i ran around the corner.
And you can see very good, that i didnīt run into one guy, but the entire enemy team which shot at me and only the guy with the SMG got the killshot :p


Interesting thing is, i created that build not for killing, but for support and surpressing and still managed to score 5 kills and get on rank 2.
I bet if someone who is more used to this type of gameplay can get rank 1 easily without one single kill, just by supporting the team since you get a lot of assist points.


And yes, itīs absolutly fun to see all those cloakers beeing clueless what to do :D

I run a similar build, but It's based off the Cankor/BMG.. This seems a little more effective (I also prefer to use Pumped up because 15% CDR on Decoy is a Wonderful thing). I may try this build out to see the differences, what Shield/Grenade are you using?

And you do get ALOT of a assists with Decoy, but it totally negates SG/Cloak... I still don't understand why people refuse to accept it's functionality.

Honved
04-12-2013, 08:48 AM
I run a similar build, but It's based off the Cankor/BMG.. This seems a little more effective (I also prefer to use Pumped up because 15% CDR on Decoy is a Wonderful thing). I may try this build out to see the differences, what Shield/Grenade are you using?

And you do get ALOT of a assists with Decoy, but it totally negates SG/Cloak... I still don't understand why people refuse to accept it's functionality.

There are very few on ps3 that use decoy, and those that do don't have sensor sweep on. Oh and to the person with an extra chromosome who thinks that having cloak negate itself after one shot is a good idea, then he is screwing us out of pve as well since we can't pick up team mates or interact with the environment. I'ts bad enough that taking damage knocks us out of it, which I should add doesn't apply to any other ego, or grabbing ammo, there are so many things that knock cloak off that people calling it op are just imbecilic.

Aeekto
04-12-2013, 09:25 AM
I run a similar build, but It's based off the Cankor/BMG.. This seems a little more effective (I also prefer to use Pumped up because 15% CDR on Decoy is a Wonderful thing). I may try this build out to see the differences, what Shield/Grenade are you using?

And you do get ALOT of a assists with Decoy, but it totally negates SG/Cloak... I still don't understand why people refuse to accept it's functionality.

Usually i run with respark, but this time i picked a rhino with syphon resistence for survivability to be able to get closer to the cloaking hotspots for my decoy..... and grenade is nothing special too (0,8 delay fraggrenade).
And this build is not even close to be perfect... just wanted to prove that there are a lot of easy counter to cloak/blur shotgun... just pick decoy+sensor sweep and a sludge rocketlauncher (with higher reload speed you are able to place 4 patches of tar before the first disappears)

My goal was just to reach some good rankings, without some things people claim to be OP (0,0 delay fraggrenade, shotgun, infector, cloak, blur, etc) while iīm able to counter most of the claimed OP things.
But on the other side i fear that there will be some threads in the future about "FRC Sludge RL" and "Decoy" is so OP (if more people start to use it) because they cant move or cloak anymore

MosesOfWar
04-12-2013, 09:59 AM
But on the other side i fear that there will be some threads in the future about "FRC Sludge RL" and "Decoy" is so OP (if more people start to use it) because they cant move or cloak anymore

This is a worry of mine as well, once the "Decoy Teleport" is used by players effectively. I'm just curious about LMG/AR and teleport. I've been running Cankor to prevent recloak and kiting, but elemental LMG seems like it may be a more efficient answer. Any thoughts?

Kwatos
04-12-2013, 10:02 AM
LMG works, just put a Sawed-Off underslung attachment on it, you'll be just fine.

Aeekto
04-12-2013, 10:25 AM
This is a worry of mine as well, once the "Decoy Teleport" is used by players effectively. I'm just curious about LMG/AR and teleport. I've been running Cankor to prevent recloak and kiting, but elemental LMG seems like it may be a more efficient answer. Any thoughts?

depends on what you want to achieve.
A SAW with higher fire-rate bonus (or less bloom), elemental proc magazine mod, less recoil stock + higher aimfire damage
can be realy strong.... syphon for selfheal, biohazard for slow or even electric to disable all HUDs.
In my opinion a LMG is more a support weapon (surpressing the enemy so you teammates can sneak up to him) and if you have teammates who cover you, you are able to play sitting duck and spray like there is no tomorrow :D
So at least it depends on your team if this weapon can be used effective or not.