billieyklepto

07-23-2014, 10:08 AM

title says it....how do you determine a weapons DPS?

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billieyklepto

07-23-2014, 10:08 AM

title says it....how do you determine a weapons DPS?

moof

07-23-2014, 10:22 AM

title says it....how do you determine a weapons DPS?

i do it by watching me damage numbers

if i can crit 50k on the warmaster with a sniper rifle that fires a couple rounds a second

and i can crit round 5250 with an incindiery needler that fires 26.2 rounds a second,i do this in me head:

sniper rifle = 2x50k=100k dps (if im lucky)

needler= 5250x26.2= 137550 (easy)

see what i mean?

i do it by watching me damage numbers

if i can crit 50k on the warmaster with a sniper rifle that fires a couple rounds a second

and i can crit round 5250 with an incindiery needler that fires 26.2 rounds a second,i do this in me head:

sniper rifle = 2x50k=100k dps (if im lucky)

needler= 5250x26.2= 137550 (easy)

see what i mean?

cmpowell

07-23-2014, 10:33 AM

dmg x fire rate = basic dps. other things like reload and round count can help calculate a more exact dps

billieyklepto

07-23-2014, 10:58 AM

ok thanx guys.

Logain

07-23-2014, 03:25 PM

title says it....how do you determine a weapons DPS?

Dux’s DPS Calculator (http://bit.ly/DuxDPScalc). Check out Math Tab. Feel free to download.

Dux’s DPS Calculator (http://bit.ly/DuxDPScalc). Check out Math Tab. Feel free to download.

Alexri

07-24-2014, 01:03 AM

Dux’s DPS Calculator. See signature. Check out Math Tab. Feel free to download.

Be very careful about using that calculator. I took a quick glance at it and some of his calculations are correct, but he is ignoring so many mechanics that the numbers the calculator generates are essentially 100% useless as they have nothing to do with what the guns actually do ingame.

He also uses wrong base numbers for some example guns so I don't think he knows that much about the workings of the game.

I may clean up and release my calculator at some point. It takes everything into account, but that makes it less user friendly since some of the fields might seem random if you don't know the mechanics.

EDIT: Screenshot just so you can see the complexity when you take everything into account:

http://i.imgur.com/mMgd4uQ.png

Some notes:

Since your guns might not always have the same EGO, and the EGO level formula is unknown, this uses on-card damage instead of base damage. It calculates base stats based on what damage modifiers and nano is on the gun. It does this since you need those numbers to properly calculate changes in damage modifiers.

This calc is designed to allow me to help choose mods and even what rolls I ideally want on a gun. The green fields are meant to be modified to see effect.

Since this is a personal tool it assumes weapon lv 20, so those numbers are baked into the calculations and not visible.

The way I use this is fill in yellow and green fields to get current DPS of a gun, then I can modify the green fields to see the effect of different rolls, mods, etc.

Be very careful about using that calculator. I took a quick glance at it and some of his calculations are correct, but he is ignoring so many mechanics that the numbers the calculator generates are essentially 100% useless as they have nothing to do with what the guns actually do ingame.

He also uses wrong base numbers for some example guns so I don't think he knows that much about the workings of the game.

I may clean up and release my calculator at some point. It takes everything into account, but that makes it less user friendly since some of the fields might seem random if you don't know the mechanics.

EDIT: Screenshot just so you can see the complexity when you take everything into account:

http://i.imgur.com/mMgd4uQ.png

Some notes:

Since your guns might not always have the same EGO, and the EGO level formula is unknown, this uses on-card damage instead of base damage. It calculates base stats based on what damage modifiers and nano is on the gun. It does this since you need those numbers to properly calculate changes in damage modifiers.

This calc is designed to allow me to help choose mods and even what rolls I ideally want on a gun. The green fields are meant to be modified to see effect.

Since this is a personal tool it assumes weapon lv 20, so those numbers are baked into the calculations and not visible.

The way I use this is fill in yellow and green fields to get current DPS of a gun, then I can modify the green fields to see the effect of different rolls, mods, etc.

Lyokira

07-24-2014, 03:11 AM

Don't forget that other misc things like armor breaking and element mods also significantly affects DPS anyway. Among other things like the appropriate range for specific weapons.

Alexri

07-24-2014, 03:44 AM

Don't forget that other misc things like armor breaking and element mods also significantly affects DPS anyway. Among other things like the appropriate range for specific weapons.

yep, though that is after the bullet leaves the weapon, and changes from situation to situation. you could of course add stats like nano effectiveness etc to a calculator; I didnt for my personal one since the game hates anything that isnt bio anyways.

yep, though that is after the bullet leaves the weapon, and changes from situation to situation. you could of course add stats like nano effectiveness etc to a calculator; I didnt for my personal one since the game hates anything that isnt bio anyways.

Lyokira

07-24-2014, 03:48 AM

yep, though that is after the bullet leaves the weapon, and changes from situation to situation. you could of course add stats like nano effectiveness etc to a calculator; I didn't for my personal one since the game hates anything that isnt bio anyways.

I'm just implying that plain DPS isn't enough to determine which gun is best for which situation.

I'm just implying that plain DPS isn't enough to determine which gun is best for which situation.

Logain

07-24-2014, 05:08 AM

Be very careful about using that calculator. I took a quick glance at it and some of his calculations are correct, but he is ignoring so many mechanics that the numbers the calculator generates are essentially 100% useless as they have nothing to do with what the guns actually do ingame.

I disagree that it is 100% useless. It has always been use at own risk and only uses only card data. It would be very difficult to code in a the effect of this gun versus x number of armor plates or versus this enemy's type of shield or this enemy's type of nano resistance. AND different nanos have different malices and buffs against shields or non-shields. So for the sake of simplicity this has been left out. BUT it is easy to calculate by hand and adjust the Damage accordingly if you so desire for your specific case.

He also uses wrong base numbers for some example guns so I don't think he knows that much about the workings of the game.

Original base values were taken from DefianceData. Values might have changed because at one point anyone could make changes to the spreadsheet before I had to lock it from people screwing up the formulas. (EDIT: Just double checked base values from Defiance Data again and they were correct. Added Links to weapons for transparency).

As far as base numbers for guns. Which one/s are wrong so I can fix them? It is very hard for me to find EGO 1 level guns.

Some notes:

Since your guns might not always have the same EGO, and the EGO level formula is unknown, this uses on-card damage instead of base damage. It calculates base stats based on what damage modifiers and nano is on the gun. It does this since you need those numbers to properly calculate changes in damage modifiers.

By the way card data already reflects damage modifiers, as well as any bonus rolls for that particular gun. Cool trick put on a Fire or Radiation mag and the card automatically updates the damage number after you already added it on. I am surprised you did not know that.

Since this is a personal tool it assumes weapon lv 20, so those numbers are baked into the calculations and not visible.

Bonuses you have with weapons that include reload time, damage increase, crit mul increase etc. are already reflected in card data that you see (of course rounded). For example for a base Wolfhound the crit mult is 4.0. With the 5% increase to crit mult obtained by leveling pistols the crit mult becomes 4.2. So every wolfhound with the minimum crit you pick up will have 4.2 reflected on the card.

EDIT: Screenshot just so you can see the complexity when you take everything into account:

http://i.imgur.com/mMgd4uQ.png

Now we know TRION uses funny math when applying bonuses. Easiest way to demonstrate is to give an example. If a gun has a 4.0 crit mult and a x1.15 and a x1.25 crit mult rolls the crit is: 4*(0.15+0.25)+4 = 5.6. AND NOT 4*1.15*1.25 = 5.75. Damage, reload, mag, and fire rate bonuses are applied in the same way. Not my math just the way Trion does it.

Finally I think you are over thinking your nano modifer. Which I am assuming you got it from here (http://www.defiancedata.com/page.php?id=15). The -10% malice you see is only comparing a the exact same gun (EGO level and all) bio version and a non nano version. The difference is already seen in the card damage when you inspect the gun and no need to make further adjustments.

EDIT: I do like the term "Sustained DPS" over advanced and will make changes spreadsheet to reflect change. Thanks for making my spreadsheet better.

<snip> so I don't think he knows that much about the workings of the game.

Also this^ Not cool.

I disagree that it is 100% useless. It has always been use at own risk and only uses only card data. It would be very difficult to code in a the effect of this gun versus x number of armor plates or versus this enemy's type of shield or this enemy's type of nano resistance. AND different nanos have different malices and buffs against shields or non-shields. So for the sake of simplicity this has been left out. BUT it is easy to calculate by hand and adjust the Damage accordingly if you so desire for your specific case.

He also uses wrong base numbers for some example guns so I don't think he knows that much about the workings of the game.

Original base values were taken from DefianceData. Values might have changed because at one point anyone could make changes to the spreadsheet before I had to lock it from people screwing up the formulas. (EDIT: Just double checked base values from Defiance Data again and they were correct. Added Links to weapons for transparency).

As far as base numbers for guns. Which one/s are wrong so I can fix them? It is very hard for me to find EGO 1 level guns.

Some notes:

Since your guns might not always have the same EGO, and the EGO level formula is unknown, this uses on-card damage instead of base damage. It calculates base stats based on what damage modifiers and nano is on the gun. It does this since you need those numbers to properly calculate changes in damage modifiers.

By the way card data already reflects damage modifiers, as well as any bonus rolls for that particular gun. Cool trick put on a Fire or Radiation mag and the card automatically updates the damage number after you already added it on. I am surprised you did not know that.

Since this is a personal tool it assumes weapon lv 20, so those numbers are baked into the calculations and not visible.

Bonuses you have with weapons that include reload time, damage increase, crit mul increase etc. are already reflected in card data that you see (of course rounded). For example for a base Wolfhound the crit mult is 4.0. With the 5% increase to crit mult obtained by leveling pistols the crit mult becomes 4.2. So every wolfhound with the minimum crit you pick up will have 4.2 reflected on the card.

EDIT: Screenshot just so you can see the complexity when you take everything into account:

http://i.imgur.com/mMgd4uQ.png

Now we know TRION uses funny math when applying bonuses. Easiest way to demonstrate is to give an example. If a gun has a 4.0 crit mult and a x1.15 and a x1.25 crit mult rolls the crit is: 4*(0.15+0.25)+4 = 5.6. AND NOT 4*1.15*1.25 = 5.75. Damage, reload, mag, and fire rate bonuses are applied in the same way. Not my math just the way Trion does it.

Finally I think you are over thinking your nano modifer. Which I am assuming you got it from here (http://www.defiancedata.com/page.php?id=15). The -10% malice you see is only comparing a the exact same gun (EGO level and all) bio version and a non nano version. The difference is already seen in the card damage when you inspect the gun and no need to make further adjustments.

EDIT: I do like the term "Sustained DPS" over advanced and will make changes spreadsheet to reflect change. Thanks for making my spreadsheet better.

<snip> so I don't think he knows that much about the workings of the game.

Also this^ Not cool.

Alexri

07-24-2014, 06:57 AM

*snip*

Nothing you say here is in any way news. Of course I know that card reflects final damage, that's why my calculator works the way it does. Once you input card damage, dmg modifiers (weapon lv it does automatically) and nano modifer in the yellow fields it uses that information to calculate back to base damage, which it then uses to calculate modified damage based on what you put in the green fields.

This way you can just take any gun in your inventory, slap it into the calculator and see how it does with different mods, rolls, etc.

And obviously the bonuses are additive, that's as common knowledge as it gets. The exception is nano modifier, which is applied separately. A gun with a base nonano damage of 100, fire nano and 10% damage boost will have a damage of (100*0,9)*1,1 = 990, rather than (100*(1+0,1-0,1) = 100 as it would have if nano modifier worked like any other damage modifier. The nonano base damage is in my calc because I might want to add a way to check the effects of other nanos at some point, whereas base nano damage is used for modified dmg calculations.

The fact that I knew this is extremely obvious based on the screenshot if you just took 3 seconds to check it. You can for instance very easily see that the hip crit multiplier of 1.755 is the result of the hip crit modifer and weapon lv modifier added up, i.e. 1.5 * (1+0,05+0,12), not multiplied, which would have been 1.5*1,05*1,12 = 1.764. Would have saved yourself a lot of work spitting out common knowledge as if it was new if you had done that simple calculation.

As for DD, never trust it. As an example, it lists Castithan Springer base reload as 1.3, which anyone who's ever had a Springer should be able to see is wrong. The springer has a green 10% reload roll and a 5% weapon level reload roll, and displays 1.2 reload on the card, which makes the base reload 1.4. Not a huge mistake, maybe, but it doesn't take huge mistakes to screw up calculations completely.

Nothing you say here is in any way news. Of course I know that card reflects final damage, that's why my calculator works the way it does. Once you input card damage, dmg modifiers (weapon lv it does automatically) and nano modifer in the yellow fields it uses that information to calculate back to base damage, which it then uses to calculate modified damage based on what you put in the green fields.

This way you can just take any gun in your inventory, slap it into the calculator and see how it does with different mods, rolls, etc.

And obviously the bonuses are additive, that's as common knowledge as it gets. The exception is nano modifier, which is applied separately. A gun with a base nonano damage of 100, fire nano and 10% damage boost will have a damage of (100*0,9)*1,1 = 990, rather than (100*(1+0,1-0,1) = 100 as it would have if nano modifier worked like any other damage modifier. The nonano base damage is in my calc because I might want to add a way to check the effects of other nanos at some point, whereas base nano damage is used for modified dmg calculations.

The fact that I knew this is extremely obvious based on the screenshot if you just took 3 seconds to check it. You can for instance very easily see that the hip crit multiplier of 1.755 is the result of the hip crit modifer and weapon lv modifier added up, i.e. 1.5 * (1+0,05+0,12), not multiplied, which would have been 1.5*1,05*1,12 = 1.764. Would have saved yourself a lot of work spitting out common knowledge as if it was new if you had done that simple calculation.

As for DD, never trust it. As an example, it lists Castithan Springer base reload as 1.3, which anyone who's ever had a Springer should be able to see is wrong. The springer has a green 10% reload roll and a 5% weapon level reload roll, and displays 1.2 reload on the card, which makes the base reload 1.4. Not a huge mistake, maybe, but it doesn't take huge mistakes to screw up calculations completely.

Logain

07-24-2014, 07:51 AM

Nothing you say here is in any way news. Of course I know that card reflects final damage, that's why my calculator works the way it does. Once you input card damage, dmg modifiers (weapon lv it does automatically) and nano modifer in the yellow fields it uses that information to calculate back to base damage, which it then uses to calculate modified damage based on what you put in the green fields.

Which if they are bonuses on guns. Are already on the card. No need to go back and calculate.

Now for added perks I agree it takes little more calculation. But not the initial point of the DPS calc. Was trying to provide to community a keep it simple guide.

As for DD, never trust it. As an example, it lists Castithan Springer base reload as 1.3, which anyone who's ever had a Springer should be able to see is wrong. The springer has a green 10% reload roll and a 5% weapon level reload roll, and displays 1.2 reload on the card, which makes the base reload 1.4. Not a huge mistake, maybe, but it doesn't take huge mistakes to screw up calculations completely.

Fixed. Thanks for pointing it out. Point of base guns originally was to show that a fav volge gun of a poster did not measure up to some non volge weapons.

And obviously the bonuses are additive, that's as common knowledge as it gets. The exception is nano modifier, which is applied separately. A gun with a base nonano damage of 100, fire nano and 10% damage boost will have a damage of (100*0,9)*1,1 = 990, rather than (100*(1+0,1-0,1) = 100 as it would have if nano modifier worked like any other damage modifier. The nonano base damage is in my calc because I might want to add a way to check the effects of other nanos at some point, whereas base nano damage is used for modified dmg calculations.

Speaking of math errors 100*0.9*1.1 = 99 but I understand that you misplaced a decimal point. No need to be a jerk or an @$$ with your comments.

This way you can just take any gun in your inventory, slap it into the calculator and see how it does with different mods, rolls, etc.

Awesome. Come share it. A weakness of my DPS calculator is that it uses stated card stats but can compare if you added on a reload or mag mod and manually adjust it in another column. Not taking into account specific perks (or shooting situations i.e. sheilds etc.), the math in my calculator is correct.

If your calculator is better, which it looks like you can compare added mods/perks before you add them to a gun please feel free to share it. The community always need good resources and I would share your link.

Cheers!

Which if they are bonuses on guns. Are already on the card. No need to go back and calculate.

Now for added perks I agree it takes little more calculation. But not the initial point of the DPS calc. Was trying to provide to community a keep it simple guide.

As for DD, never trust it. As an example, it lists Castithan Springer base reload as 1.3, which anyone who's ever had a Springer should be able to see is wrong. The springer has a green 10% reload roll and a 5% weapon level reload roll, and displays 1.2 reload on the card, which makes the base reload 1.4. Not a huge mistake, maybe, but it doesn't take huge mistakes to screw up calculations completely.

Fixed. Thanks for pointing it out. Point of base guns originally was to show that a fav volge gun of a poster did not measure up to some non volge weapons.

And obviously the bonuses are additive, that's as common knowledge as it gets. The exception is nano modifier, which is applied separately. A gun with a base nonano damage of 100, fire nano and 10% damage boost will have a damage of (100*0,9)*1,1 = 990, rather than (100*(1+0,1-0,1) = 100 as it would have if nano modifier worked like any other damage modifier. The nonano base damage is in my calc because I might want to add a way to check the effects of other nanos at some point, whereas base nano damage is used for modified dmg calculations.

Speaking of math errors 100*0.9*1.1 = 99 but I understand that you misplaced a decimal point. No need to be a jerk or an @$$ with your comments.

This way you can just take any gun in your inventory, slap it into the calculator and see how it does with different mods, rolls, etc.

Awesome. Come share it. A weakness of my DPS calculator is that it uses stated card stats but can compare if you added on a reload or mag mod and manually adjust it in another column. Not taking into account specific perks (or shooting situations i.e. sheilds etc.), the math in my calculator is correct.

If your calculator is better, which it looks like you can compare added mods/perks before you add them to a gun please feel free to share it. The community always need good resources and I would share your link.

Cheers!

Etaew

07-24-2014, 08:02 AM

As for DD, never trust it. As an example, it lists Castithan Springer base reload as 1.3, which anyone who's ever had a Springer should be able to see is wrong. The springer has a green 10% reload roll and a 5% weapon level reload roll, and displays 1.2 reload on the card, which makes the base reload 1.4..

It's almost like I've entered everything by hand, by myself. Having to collect each weapon, and do some calculations to figure out the base values from all the bonus rolls and mods. Some mistakes will be made, but wouldn't it be lovely if people were happy to point out corrections needed instead of just claiming things on it are wrong.

It's almost like I've entered everything by hand, by myself. Having to collect each weapon, and do some calculations to figure out the base values from all the bonus rolls and mods. Some mistakes will be made, but wouldn't it be lovely if people were happy to point out corrections needed instead of just claiming things on it are wrong.

drackiller

07-24-2014, 08:05 AM

It's almost like I've entered everything by hand, by myself. Having to collect each weapon, and do some calculations to figure out the base values from all the bonus rolls and mods. Some mistakes will be made, but wouldn't it be lovely if people were happy to point out corrections needed instead of just claiming things on it are wrong.

+ 10 for you and Logain, for the great work you`ve been doing.

+ 10 for you and Logain, for the great work you`ve been doing.

Alexri

07-24-2014, 08:15 AM

Which if they are bonuses on guns. Are already on the card. No need to go back and calculate.

It needs to calculate base values in order to be able to calculate changes done in the green section. Let's say you have a Pulser with a 5% blue dmg rool, weapon lv 20. You want to know whether to put damage or crit barrel on it. To do that you can't just take card value dmg, you need the damage before weapon lv and 5% bonus. By inputting card damage and modifiers in the yellow section, it gives the calculator base values to work with when you start playing with the green section.

Nano modifiers etc isn't overly important in the current iteration, but if you wanted to see how a gun would be with a conversion mag, the calculator would need to use that value as well.

Not going to share the calculator because I don't particularly like the defiance community so anyone who wants a calculator can go make one themselves. It's all simple math that takes 5 min to reproduce.

It needs to calculate base values in order to be able to calculate changes done in the green section. Let's say you have a Pulser with a 5% blue dmg rool, weapon lv 20. You want to know whether to put damage or crit barrel on it. To do that you can't just take card value dmg, you need the damage before weapon lv and 5% bonus. By inputting card damage and modifiers in the yellow section, it gives the calculator base values to work with when you start playing with the green section.

Nano modifiers etc isn't overly important in the current iteration, but if you wanted to see how a gun would be with a conversion mag, the calculator would need to use that value as well.

Not going to share the calculator because I don't particularly like the defiance community so anyone who wants a calculator can go make one themselves. It's all simple math that takes 5 min to reproduce.

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