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View Full Version : attention Devs; idea for new weapons class!!



Smokey Greenleaf
07-27-2014, 09:48 PM
Hello, i have been playing Defiance for quite a while now, and after over a year of game play i have noticed that legendary weapons aren't exactly legendary at all, in fact they have become a dime a dozen, people are giving them away or breaking them down like trash just to get rid of them. this can be a great thing to new players or a detriment to older players and i think i have come up with an idea that will make your customers as a whole VERY happy! i know that there are already so many legendary items in the game, that it would be near impossible to lower their commonality. Instead, i think a new class of weapon rarity should be introduced... one that actually takes work to obtain, one that is superior to all the rest and can ONLY be obtained by hard work in the game... not through pay to win in the bit store. give us a weapon class that is not only worth the effort, but a status symbol to your long standing, devoted customers that have earned the right to be at the top of their class. this can be done in my opinion in one of two ways; A: use existing weapon models with highly upgraded stats, which i would think would take a small amount of work and manpower, and be entirely do-able. option B: create entirely new weapons with new skins and effects and devote these models specifically to the new rarity class. i have racked my brain for a while trying to decide what color should be used to indicate this new rarity, it cant be too close to any of the existing colors (white, green,blue,purple, and orange) so that it is easy to notice at a glance.... then it hit me.... BLACK LABEL WEAPONS!!! not only does it sound cool, but would stand out above all the other colors even against the blue background of an inventory screen.

so there we go, my idea for an easy way to improve the game. Hope someone picks this up and runs with it. if you like the sound of what I'm proposing, feel free to comment as you see fit, make your voices heard, people!

Smokey

Shakk
07-27-2014, 10:09 PM
Even more powerful guns is really not what this game needs right now. Perhaps later on with the access to Silicon Valley but so far, I dont believe it is needed.

One thing that would be cool tho is being able to change model of the gun. For instance, an AR would be able to look like any of the other ARs or LMGs in game.

Shotguns into any pump/combat shotgun.

Snipers into any semi/bolt action sniper.

And to put those trashy Legendarys to good use is, what about they give you some kind of a currency on salvaging and 100 of these is needed to change model.

bk_707
07-27-2014, 10:22 PM
Smokey

This is an awesome idea. I've been a player since Beta, and one of the things I remember is that Orange weapons were really rare during the first few months. Now it seems like they are all over the place. This is even more the case since we are able to upgrade the rarity of weapons.

A new class of weapons that are really rare and you are only able to get them from some sort of hard work, special achievement, but not through Lockboxes, Bits, or any other type of buying, just good hard work would great. Also, you should not be able to increase the rarity of a weapon to this new rarity.

RAGEFIGHTER
07-27-2014, 10:29 PM
Smokey

This is an awesome idea. I've been a player since Beta, and one of the things I remember is that Orange weapons were really rare during the first few months. Now it seems like they are all over the place. This is even more the case since we are able to upgrade the rarity of weapons.

A new class of weapons that are really rare and you are only able to get them from some sort of hard work, special achievement, but not through Lockboxes, Bits, or any other type of buying, just good hard work would great. Also, you should not be able to increase the rarity of a weapon to this new rarity.

one more tring to get rid off donate players ??? itgoes even pathetic sometimes

Amack
07-27-2014, 11:09 PM
Just some food for thought Smokey...

When you are able to re-roll synergies and stuff like that, do you think it will be cheaper in AF to use an existing OJ, or re-roll a blue for example, then upgrade to purple, then re-roll it, then upgrade to OJ, then re-roll it once more until each roll is just the one you want?

I think once that system is released, many people will regret having dispensed of many of those OJs.
I also think they will regret having upgraded the rarity prematurely.

It is Trion after all, you have been warned. ;)

Smokey Greenleaf
07-27-2014, 11:14 PM
Smokey

This is an awesome idea. I've been a player since Beta, and one of the things I remember is that Orange weapons were really rare during the first few months. Now it seems like they are all over the place. This is even more the case since we are able to upgrade the rarity of weapons.

A new class of weapons that are really rare and you are only able to get them from some sort of hard work, special achievement, but not through Lockboxes, Bits, or any other type of buying, just good hard work would great. Also, you should not be able to increase the rarity of a weapon to this new rarity.

Great input, and i fully agree with your thoughts on the issue. in every game i've ever played that used a rarity system, legendary weapons were exactly that; legendary... incredibly difficult to get, but well worth the effort to obtain them. in Defiance however, i got my first orange at ego 200, and since then i have built up an inventory of well over 200 (not including the ones i have given away to clan mates or scrapped to clear up inventory space). every player i inspect has full legendary load outs equipped, it has come to the point that people will actually laugh at you and insult you when you are trying to give them a legendary weapon that doesn't have perfect stats. the new rarity in my opinion is a great idea on many levels. firstly, the enemies in defiance are steadily growing harder to defeat, especially with the new threat level system, harder enemies require harder hitting tools to take them down. secondly, as a status symbol (defiance is all about the status symbols as they remind us of regularly in the game and tv show). third as a thank you from trion for being a loyal devoted supporter of their game (even after dealing with game breaking glitches and constant server crashes that require a patch for the patch of the patch's patch just to be playable). and so on.

Smokey Greenleaf
07-27-2014, 11:33 PM
Just some food for thought Smokey...

When you are able to re-roll synergies and stuff like that, do you think it will be cheaper in AF to use an existing OJ, or re-roll a blue for example, then upgrade to purple, then re-roll it, then upgrade to OJ, then re-roll it once more until each roll is just the one you want?

I think once that system is released, many people will regret having dispensed of many of those OJs.
I also think they will regret having upgraded the rarity prematurely.

It is Trion after all, you have been warned. ;)

Honestly, as hard as it has become to get arkforge these days, after the lockbox nerfs, and with events seeming to drop less and less ark forge, then with the rumors going around that Trion plans to remove AF from event drops entirely and make it ONLY available through the bit store, i think this is one of the biggest reasons the new rarity is needed.... not only for the customer's benefit but also for Trion's.... an outraged customer isnt going to spend any money on a product... a happy customer will spend 5 times as much.

to answer your question more clearly though, i think it'll cost pretty close to the same considering that you may have to re-roll a blue several times to get what you want, then rinse and repeat for each rarity level if you want the absolute best stats you can find. may even end up cheaper to do oranges in the long run... it's a game of chance either way.

Antoine Flemming
07-27-2014, 11:48 PM
Honestly, for weapons, all I want to see are two types of mods for each type of weapon: Electric Conversion mods and Cold Fire conversion mods.

Amack
07-27-2014, 11:51 PM
I hear you buddy, and I do agree it is most definitely a game of chance either way.

Lets just throw around some theoretical numbers for a second though.

You have a Blue Saw with Grenadier and double recoil rolls. It is as steady as can possibly be. You use 200 AF to upgrade it to purple and don't get a roll that you like, so you then pay another 100 AF (theoretical) to re-roll the purple stat. Once again it is not a roll you like, so you pay another 100 AF to re-roll it once more. Still not a roll you like. Another 100 AF. This time you get a roll that you do like. You are now up to 500 AF spent. You then spend another 500 AF to bring it up to OJ. Oh look at that, an OJ stat you did not want, so you spend 200 AF (theoretical) to re-roll the OJ stat. This time it is an okay OJ roll, but it could be better. You decide to spend another 200 AF to re-roll the OJ stat. Dang it, you should have stuck with the first re-roll. Another 200 AF to re-roll the OJ stat. This time the OJ stat is once again reasonable and you decide it is good enough, so you begin to work on the mastery roll... now being at 1600 AF spent on a single weapon.

What do you think the chances are that if you took an already OJ Saw and used that 1600 AF on it, would you be able to get it like the blue?

Liquidacid
07-27-2014, 11:54 PM
so you want to add an item that just forces player to have to re-grind the content they have already been grinding even more and then reward them by handing them said item which only further trivializes the already pretty damn easy content we have and which is also the only content they will have to use it on? not to mention given that weapons scale with EGO any weapon that takes an extreme in effort/time to get would only even be reasonable to do if your close to max anyway otherwise it will just be vendor trash a short while later, so it wouldn't even matter to a majority of players

nah... I'd rather they add more things to do with the stockpile of weapons I already have which I've spent countless hours earning than add another needless grind

Smokey Greenleaf
07-28-2014, 12:27 AM
so you want to add an item that just forces player to have to re-grind the content they have already been grinding even more and then reward them by handing them said item which only further trivializes the already pretty damn easy content we have and which is also the only content they will have to use it on? not to mention given that weapons scale with EGO any weapon that takes an extreme in effort/time to get would only even be reasonable to do if your close to max anyway otherwise it will just be vendor trash a short while later, so it wouldn't even matter to a majority of players

nah... I'd rather they add more things to do with the stockpile of weapons I already have which I've spent countless hours earning than add another needless grind

not sure exactly where i said ANY of that.... lol. maybe i should've been more specific, but what i had in mind was a new item rarity class that is ONLY available to ego 5000+ or maybe even 6000+ as we are nearing the 6K mark already. who said anything about RE-grinding anything? those of us who have busted our butts to get to max level already have credit for everything we've done. i was thinking something along the lines of requiring a certain ego level like stated above, rep maxed with all factions, AND all pursuits completed for all content up to and including the newest content at the time. in my opinion, that is not "just handing" any one anything at all, that is letting them earn it. and again, as stated above, if you do not like it or wish to strive for it, you are not required to do so, so nothing to complain about at all the way i see it.

As for the weapon scaling to ego... im not 100% sure i understand what your point is, but i think you're saying that you think the weapon will only be usable at a certain ego level then trash past that point.... that is not what i propose at all, i simply suggested that it not be possible to "easy roll" a weapon from orange to black, as that would defeat the purpose of doing the work to obtain it in the first place.

and last but not least... to cover your final statement... again, you would not be required to do any further work if you are happy with what you already have, but come on... earning it? really?? lol the way things are right now, there is no earning required to have the best weapons in the game... i have a huge stockpile of some of the best weapons you can get, and even i will admit, they all pretty much fell into my lap with very little work involved. drops from lockboxes, drops from events, trades from friends, etc. i guess you have a different viewpoint on what "earning" an item is, and i can respect that. but a large number of us are bored with just having the best dropped in our lap, and bored with having nothing to do... all pursuits maxed out, nothing but the same old arkfalls, sieges, co-ops, and PVP. giving us something new to work toward is all that keeps a player playing past a certain point, and this suggestion would do exactly that. sure i don't have it ALL figured out yet, i don't pretend to, simply tossing out suggestions and hoping for the best. there are several ways my suggestion could be implemented, that is exactly why i chose not to go too far in depth with it, to leave the devs a little leeway to work with.

Smokey Greenleaf
07-28-2014, 12:42 AM
I hear you buddy, and I do agree it is most definitely a game of chance either way.

Lets just throw around some theoretical numbers for a second though.

You have a Blue Saw with Grenadier and double recoil rolls. It is as steady as can possibly be. You use 200 AF to upgrade it to purple and don't get a roll that you like, so you then pay another 100 AF (theoretical) to re-roll the purple stat. Once again it is not a roll you like, so you pay another 100 AF to re-roll it once more. Still not a roll you like. Another 100 AF. This time you get a roll that you do like. You are now up to 500 AF spent. You then spend another 500 AF to bring it up to OJ. Oh look at that, an OJ stat you did not want, so you spend 200 AF (theoretical) to re-roll the OJ stat. This time it is an okay OJ roll, but it could be better. You decide to spend another 200 AF to re-roll the OJ stat. Dang it, you should have stuck with the first re-roll. Another 200 AF to re-roll the OJ stat. This time the OJ stat is once again reasonable and you decide it is good enough, so you begin to work on the mastery roll... now being at 1600 AF spent on a single weapon.

What do you think the chances are that if you took an already OJ Saw and used that 1600 AF on it, would you be able to get it like the blue?

LOL i see what you mean, but honestly, being me and having the number of oranges i have already, i doubt I'd bother re-rolling anything at all that many times :-P. personally i think the whole ark forge/re rolling thing is whats destroying the game to begin with... yes it's cool in theory, but in the end it's all pay to win... who ever has the biggest wallet and can buy the most ark forge from the bit store, has the best chances at the best items, and that is not fair to the lower majority of players. i agree, it would be awesome to be able to do what you're talking about (if you could afford to do so) but it's just not feasible for someone like myself, especially when 500 AF costs roughly $18 worth of bits.... at the numbers you came up with above you're talking about spending around $40+ per weapon or spending months grinding it out through events.

Amack
07-28-2014, 01:08 AM
At the risk of totally derailing your thread (which is not my intention at all, I am just trying to give people things to think about) if the scoring system was entirely based on damage output / kill count, then yes, being able to create these perfect OJ weapons would be true pay to win. However, this is not the case. The scoring system favors knowledge for the most part. You have to know which weapons will perform better under what circumstances, and on top of that, you have to know what nano will be most effective. You also have to know how to create your load outs to support those weapons in a way that will be somewhat efficient. The scoring system sure is not perfect by any means, but it could be so much worse, and I don't think people take that into consideration many times. This is why people with lower egos, who do their homework, use the proper blue weapons, and perk load out can outscore a 5k+ ego person using OJ weapons with inefficient perks. Oh yah... and score boosts... lol

N3gativeCr33p
07-28-2014, 05:41 AM
<snip> then with the rumors going around that Trion plans to remove AF from event drops entirely and make it ONLY available through the bit store <snip>

This is a joke, right? Because if it actually happens, that will definitely stop me from playing this game further.

hiban
07-28-2014, 06:26 AM
This is a joke, right? Because if it actually happens, that will definitely stop me from playing this game further.

I think the same as you. If they ever do that, i will just uninstall Defiance and move on.

Smokey Greenleaf
07-28-2014, 02:14 PM
This is a joke, right? Because if it actually happens, that will definitely stop me from playing this game further.

not sure, just the rumor i've been hearing a lot, and doesnt seem too far fetched as lockboxes and events are already dropping less than ever

Cavadus
07-28-2014, 02:34 PM
Still waiting for my battle rifle class... just need to take a few AR and semi-auto models, rip the scopes off, adjust some crit and damage, and up the rate of fire.

Seriously, if pump and combat shotguns can be two different things then BRs can be their own thing.

Terrato137
07-28-2014, 03:02 PM
not sure, just the rumor i've been hearing a lot, and doesnt seem too far fetched as lockboxes and events are already dropping less than ever

Unless it's official, I wouldn't even bother typing it anywhere.

Smokey Greenleaf
07-28-2014, 07:28 PM
Unless it's official, I wouldn't even bother typing it anywhere.

Good thing im not you lol. lets just say I've heard from several reliable sources that a certain lead dev let it slip while drinking on a live stream... this is way off topic though, lets get things back on track :-)

PTR47
07-28-2014, 08:24 PM
I did testing after the patch hit and some forumers helped to verify the numbers, and I guarantee you that there has been NO CHANGE in the amount of Arkforge you get for your score. Your score may have changed (who knows?), but not the amount of Arkforge you get for it.

With that put to rest, I like the general idea of pursuit-levelled weapons or some other type of opportunity-limited levelling system, provided that such weapons are unique-utility -- like Infectors or BMGs with some unique property, for example. Something that wouldn't replace your general arsenal, but add some really unique load-out options that could add some more strategic elements to play. Charge blades are a great example of this: not overpowered, not replacing general load-out, but really unique strategically, and really fun under the right circumstances.

Smokey Greenleaf
07-29-2014, 12:24 PM
I did testing after the patch hit and some forumers helped to verify the numbers, and I guarantee you that there has been NO CHANGE in the amount of Arkforge you get for your score. Your score may have changed (who knows?), but not the amount of Arkforge you get for it.

With that put to rest, I like the general idea of pursuit-levelled weapons or some other type of opportunity-limited levelling system, provided that such weapons are unique-utility -- like Infectors or BMGs with some unique property, for example. Something that wouldn't replace your general arsenal, but add some really unique load-out options that could add some more strategic elements to play. Charge blades are a great example of this: not overpowered, not replacing general load-out, but really unique strategically, and really fun under the right circumstances.

eh, i dunno about anything being put to rest, lol. i clearly remember getting 40-50 arkforge about a month ago for getting 150-200K scores on monoliths (for example), now the same scores are bringing 14-25 AF on average but whatever, it wouldn't bother me if they removed it from the game completely to be honest... it does seem they've found a middle ground though which i have to give them major credit for. once silicon valley comes out, you will only be able to upgrade an items rarity ONE time (at least according to the screenshot and post linked on the glyph patcher today) and that should eliminate all the blue to orange rolls.

yeah i can see what you mean, i personally don't like the idea of limiting it to just infectors, charge blades, and BMGs though, as i avoid using these weapons at all costs (except when i was forced to do PVP play to complete the pursuits... never going back into PVP again once my last echelon rep pursuit is complete though). After further thinking on the subject (and i know this contradicts a previous statement in a small way, no need to point it out) i think I've come up with a solution that could potentially make every one happy.... instead of creating a whole new class of weapons, make it an extremely limited upgrade option... one that a player can only use a set amount of times (say 5 times max per character on an account), only available after reaching certain milestones in the game. make the weapons UN-tradeable, so that players cant just transfer them from one character to another to get as many as they want. i think this would be a good idea because it would allow a player to choose his (or her) absolute favorite weapons in the game, and improve them, rather than relying on the chance that they may get stuck with something they hate. it would keep the new weapons class rare because there would be a very limited amount available, and they could not be passed around like oranges for any one who wants them to accumulate at ungodly numbers. and it would teach players to THINK before they make a flash decision, as whatever they choose, they will be stuck with for good (unless they trash it, but trashing will not give them an opportunity to call mulligan and redo it). me for example... I'd choose my first legendary LM43 Thunder as my very first upgrade to black label, as it was the first on the PC servers to ever have negative recoil, and has a huge amount of sentimental value to me after being gifted to me by a close friend who is now dead. Even if they managed to Nerf thunders into the ground for some unknown reason like they've done with other weapons in the past, this specific thunder would remain my absolute favorite weapon in the game, so i would have no issues using my first orange to black roll on it.

Well... just an idea, and im open to others as well. keep the comments coming, guys! each and every suggestion on the matter helps.

PTR47
07-29-2014, 03:59 PM
eh, i dunno about anything being put to rest, lol. i clearly remember getting 40-50 arkforge about a month ago for getting 150-200K scores on monoliths (for example), now the same scores are bringing 14-25 AF on average but whatever, it wouldn't bother me if they removed it from the game completely to be honest...

I can tell you I got 22 Arkforge for 254073 score on May 20 for a Monolith, and 11 Arkforge for 135629 on May 18. I have many more data points, which were gathered over two months ago; I recalculated and posted the number to the forum just over two weeks ago (specifically, July 13th). The numbers are still valid.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?167396-Event-Rewards

I would consider that conclusive evidence that there has been no change to Arkforge rewards from events.

Blur410 VelocitosEradicos
07-29-2014, 04:19 PM
Personally guys, where do you get all these ojs i hear about, i only got literally like 3. What they really should do is give players the option to name a weapon, that would be a status symbol. Say 100-150 AF a weapon name?