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View Full Version : Higher level players helping on missions etc



Wraither
07-29-2014, 02:25 PM
So.. playing and having a great time. Able to kill stuff nicely according to my EGO and weapon rating. Moving through my mission nicely, then a Clan mate shows up, with nothing but the good intention of helping. This is awesome... except for one thing:

He is VERY high EGO rating, and I am not. I am now rendered useless. I can barely kill a mob now, and I get one or two shotted by mobs and swarmed, and the person that showed up to help has to do all the work while the low EGO player either hides, lays there dead, or burns full clips of SAWs or whatever their weapon of choice is trying to down a mob while getting their *** handed to them from all angles.

Why is this not like in Rift, where the higher level player scales down according to the other lower level player and the mobs remain unchanged, like the Rift mentoring system? This system makes it so I actually want to refuse help and not even play out of frustration of the arbitrary deaths that happen when a high EGO rating clan mate shows up, or other players for that matter, like the ones that show up and go AFK leaving you to solo the mission against all odds while they reap the rewards of you beating your head against a wall for an extended period of time once you finally manage to finish the mission.

I totally promote the idea of teamwork and being able to group with clan mates etc but imo this system is kinda fail.

Anyone else find this issue kills the fun factor of the game for them at all?

Terrato137
07-29-2014, 02:26 PM
Anyone else find this issue kills the fun factor of the game for them at all?

Only when the higher lvls arent doing anything.

JadedSinn
07-29-2014, 02:37 PM
barly made ego 4k a few hours ago. but i have the same problum with pugs . ill be runing a daily solo happy content with my small threat level and them BAM some 5k+ ego desides to come charging into the area and my threat level jumps to max and im stuck playing dump the ammo inorder to even get a kill or 2. it sucks. but it happens ragulerly.

DeadEye68
07-29-2014, 02:43 PM
Scaling is pretty iffy. It scales up very fast, but takes much more time to scale down.

I quite often happen to unwillingly bump up threat levels for lower EGOs, but bailing out won't help them, as existing spawns won't scale down, and upcoming spawns will still be too high for them for a while.

I can't leave them stranded, fighting enemies way too strong for them

JadedSinn
07-29-2014, 02:49 PM
every time someone walks into an area and hikes my threat level. i leave. let them have the place. ill still get my reword for beating the area when thy finish and i dont have to keep fighting TL10s that i cant kill

Dandrielas
07-29-2014, 02:53 PM
I don't understand why they did the system that way. I liked it the way it was before. It bumped enemies enough to be somewhat dangerous, but you are still able to take them down. I hate the new system.

Stewart2410
07-29-2014, 02:57 PM
On a positive note 5k egos help level up weapons faster and help with xp.

Riz
07-29-2014, 02:58 PM
From the other side as well. When i enter a conflict site it's TL6, perfectly fine for an 5650'ish EGO-player. As soon as another high EGO joins the TL jumps to 10. By all means, when both are shooting its still fine. But why would i spent 15 minutes killing a gazillion TL10 mobs when one of us can do the handful of mobs at TL6 within 5 minutes?

When i'm doing my contracts and a high level jumps in, i'm leaving. Getting the contract checked anyways. When i arrive at a conflict site where someone is already busy i make a small score and leave as well, tag and travel out. Indeed this game does NOT encouradge teamplay in open world anymore. It really became a funny MMO.

Dandrielas
07-29-2014, 02:59 PM
On a positive note 5k egos help level up weapons faster and help with xp.

I guess. Is the pain worth it though? I think not.

Stewart2410
07-29-2014, 03:01 PM
From the other side as well. When i enter a conflict site it's TL6, perfectly fine for an 5650'ish EGO-player. As soon as another high EGO joins the TL jumps to 10. By all means, when both are shooting its still fine. But why would i spent 15 minutes killing a gazillion TL10 mobs when one of us can do the handful of mobs at TL6 within 5 minutes?

When i'm doing my contracts and a high level jumps in, i'm leaving. Getting the contract checked anyways. When i arrive at a conflict site where someone is already busy i make a small score and leave as well, tag and travel out. Indeed this game does NOT encouradge teamplay in open world anymore. It really became a funny MMO.

It is nice to complete things at tl6 instead of 10

Bonehead
07-29-2014, 03:11 PM
When i'm doing my contracts and a high level jumps in, i'm leaving.

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/borat-thumbs-up_zps7c26088c.jpg

N3gativeCr33p
07-29-2014, 03:17 PM
Anyone else find this issue kills the fun factor of the game for them at all?

Yep... and it has been that way ever since DLP 5 was released.

UniqueOne
07-29-2014, 03:24 PM
There is a really SIMPLE fix for this.

Either:
Player damage/health/shields need to scale with the instance's ego rating.
or
Player damage/incoming-damage need to scale with the instance's ego rating.

It's pretty simple math really... The change could be hidden or shown to the player (values adjusted before/after client side damage display) - doesn't matter.

It's literally a few lines of code. Here is the code.
outgoing_damage *= InstanceEGO / PlayerEGO;
incoming_damage *= PlayerEGO / InstanceEGO;

Problem solved. Make it happen.

Bonehead
07-29-2014, 03:28 PM
There is a really SIMPLE fix for this.

Either:
Player damage/health/shields need to scale with the instance's ego rating.
or
Player damage/incoming-damage need to scale with the instance's ego rating.

It's pretty simple math really...

Problem solved. Make it happen.

That would be the perfect, elegant solution.
They seem to hate perfect and elegant.

Elroyhuman
07-29-2014, 03:48 PM
The thing that gets me is today I am running a daily solo, and all of a sudden the TL maxes out. I am almost done, so I finish and on my way out I see a dozen plus purple dots all clustered together on my mini map. I go and check it out and they are all crouched behind a piece of rubble.

I go on to the next daily, pew pew pew TL maxes out again I stop and look around and again I see a cluster of purple dots. Seems there is a new "Guild" and they are out following people doing dailies to get the points without doing any work.

WTF? Bunch of Blue Falcons.

I went back, blured up and got everything I could to follow me over to where they were hiding.

I left them all crawling asking for help, and went on to do an incursion.

3rdpig
07-29-2014, 03:59 PM
On a positive note 5k egos help level up weapons faster and help with xp.

I'm ego 5600, and when a 5k ego shows up to help I leave. At TL6 I can finish even the long contracts in 10 minutes, at TL10 it takes 2x-3x that long. If you show up and it goes to TL10, take a single shot and fast travel out and I'll finish it, because if you stay I'm going to leave and then you can finish it. And if neither of us finished it it's no big deal, all you're going to get in that vendor supply crate is blue items you'll sell right away anyway.

Dandrielas
07-29-2014, 04:00 PM
The thing that gets me is today I am running a daily solo, and all of a sudden the TL maxes out. I am almost done, so I finish and on my way out I see a dozen plus purple dots all clustered together on my mini map. I go and check it out and they are all crouched behind a piece of rubble.

I go on to the next daily, pew pew pew TL maxes out again I stop and look around and again I see a cluster of purple dots. Seems there is a new "Guild" and they are out following people doing dailies to get the points without doing any work.

WTF? Bunch of Blue Falcons.

I went back, blured up and got everything I could to follow me over to where they were hiding.

I left them all crawling asking for help, and went on to do an incursion.

That works for me.

RAGEFIGHTER
07-29-2014, 04:01 PM
So.. playing and having a great time. Able to kill stuff nicely according to my EGO and weapon rating. Moving through my mission nicely, then a Clan mate shows up, with nothing but the good intention of helping. This is awesome... except for one thing:

He is VERY high EGO rating, and I am not. I am now rendered useless. I can barely kill a mob now, and I get one or two shotted by mobs and swarmed, and the person that showed up to help has to do all the work while the low EGO player either hides, lays there dead, or burns full clips of SAWs or whatever their weapon of choice is trying to down a mob while getting their *** handed to them from all angles.

Why is this not like in Rift, where the higher level player scales down according to the other lower level player and the mobs remain unchanged, like the Rift mentoring system? This system makes it so I actually want to refuse help and not even play out of frustration of the arbitrary deaths that happen when a high EGO rating clan mate shows up, or other players for that matter, like the ones that show up and go AFK leaving you to solo the mission against all odds while they reap the rewards of you beating your head against a wall for an extended period of time once you finally manage to finish the mission.

I totally promote the idea of teamwork and being able to group with clan mates etc but imo this system is kinda fail.

Anyone else find this issue kills the fun factor of the game for them at all?

got thiss all the time scaling system is nice but when 4k ego comes in its not funy any morei think scaling system as everything in this game needs alot reconfiguration

gfldaven
07-29-2014, 04:12 PM
i actually have 2 toons... one is 5k+ the other is about 2500 ego ... either i am a god according to those posting here or i am just lucky... tl doesn't make much difference to either of my toons.... i blitz through all my contracts very fast, actually the only ones that do make a difference are the coop maps and of course the horrendious kangaroo detonator/sniper rifle pvp setups....i have just said no after 2 quick looks at it... not worth wasting my time on.

Dandrielas
07-29-2014, 04:17 PM
i actually have 2 toons... one is 5k+ the other is about 2500 ego ... either i am a god according to those posting here or i am just lucky... tl doesn't make much difference to either of my toons.... i blitz through all my contracts very fast, actually the only ones that do make a difference are the coop maps and of course the horrendious kangaroo detonator/sniper rifle pvp setups....i have just said no after 2 quick looks at it... not worth wasting my time on.

The problem arises when I can't one shot the head of the enemies anymore. When it takes 3-4 shots from a Bolt Action Rifle, it can get annoying.

Bored Peon
07-29-2014, 04:17 PM
The reverse is not any fun either you know....

Be the 4k ego player at an incursion and have every boss chase you around because the other players are too low to do any damage.

My all time favorite is the Warmaster events. Here you are high ego and end up dead to the random bull@#$% it does. Then you sit there waiting on a revive while you see some jackhole raise his pistol to level three. Yet people wonder why the Warmasters do not die most of the time.

The simpler solution would have been to use the old multiple servers, those who can remember know there was at least 3-4 instances of all the zones. Dedicate those instances to lower ego levels and separate the lower levels from the high ones.

Liquidacid
07-29-2014, 04:21 PM
Yeah what this game needs is EGO segregation... shove those low EGO players in their own internment... er... I mean educational vacation camps

Cavadus
07-29-2014, 04:21 PM
Yeah, the game was much better before threat levels and EGO scaling.

Liquidacid
07-29-2014, 04:27 PM
Yeah, the game was much better before threat levels and EGO scaling.

nah most of the missions were so easy before we had any scaling you could literally break them to the point you could sleep walk through it by just 1 more guy showing up

Dandrielas
07-29-2014, 04:31 PM
nah most of the missions were so easy before we had any scaling you could literally break them to the point you could sleep walk through it by just 1 more guy showing up

This isn't the solution though either. Now killing things is a chore. Something that should take 5 minutes now takes 15.

Cavadus
07-29-2014, 04:31 PM
nah most of the missions were so easy before we had any scaling you could literally break them to the point you could sleep walk through it by just 1 more guy showing up

That's still the case. The only difference now is that mobs eat 10x more bullets. That's significantly worse, IMO.

Atticus Batman
07-29-2014, 04:33 PM
Yeah what this game needs is EGO segregation... shove those low EGO players in their own internment... er... I mean educational vacation camps

I think this is what you want! :)

http://t2.rbxcdn.com/4e3432361eeb37ccf64978d392cbaef5

or this.

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/313/89b/65b/resized/datable-beard-man-meme-generator-i-always-use-a-knife-to-kill-all-the-noobs-on-the-server-b2f4a1.jpg

Prin
07-29-2014, 04:40 PM
nah most of the missions were so easy before we had any scaling you could literally break them to the point you could sleep walk through it by just 1 more guy showing up
And now they are just bullet sponges; still easy, just tedious and non-rewarding.

Bonehead
07-29-2014, 05:32 PM
And now they are just bullet sponges; still easy, just tedious and non-rewarding.

I* don't disagree entirely and I will bolt if someone comes and bumps me to tl 8+ but it's no where near as bad as it used to be.

Mushbeeguy
07-29-2014, 05:40 PM
Remember when playing with others was FUN? Thanks for breaking yet another positive feature of the game.

Now we are castigated for having more than one arkhunter in an area at a time. 9/9 is on the way.

Bonehead
07-29-2014, 05:50 PM
Remember when playing with others was FUN?

Ooh! Ooh! I do!

drackiller
07-30-2014, 12:58 AM
I'm ego 5600, and when a 5k ego shows up to help I leave. At TL6 I can finish even the long contracts in 10 minutes, at TL10 it takes 2x-3x that long. If you show up and it goes to TL10, take a single shot and fast travel out and I'll finish it, because if you stay I'm going to leave and then you can finish it. And if neither of us finished it it's no big deal, all you're going to get in that vendor supply crate is blue items you'll sell right away anyway.
That`s what i do. If i show to a daily and there`s already someone there i shoot something and go away.
The same for the opposite, if i`m alone and someone shows up and TL goes to 10, i`ll just leave the place.

crazyged
07-30-2014, 01:02 AM
I'd stick around when I still had experience to earn - it helped me level up quickly.

But now that I've maxed out my perks, there's not much motivation for grinding through a daily. Still do it though, because I sort of feel guilty just tagging and leaving.

IcecuebPAL
07-30-2014, 01:32 AM
It sucks when the high level is leveling up BMGs or something. Everyone will be dying around him. It is a pain for Dark Matter Arks... Those take forever when there is a high level, especially if the high level is doing nothing. Sometimes you have to go to the other Arks and solo them, so you won't run out of time.

I like the way FFXI Online does it. I played before the new leveling system, and when they changed it, I got back on for a while. It scales you with the lowest level in your party. Before this update, finding a party would take a long time (depending on your class). With the update, you could be level 60 and party with a level 20, and have no problems at all.

DepthProbe
07-30-2014, 02:02 AM
With one character below 1k and one close to 3k I've had little issues with the threat level system. Some of the volge sieges can be intense, but you know what you're getting into whenever you go to one. And, as long as people are reviving most situations have been fine; alternately, if everyone stands around firing and not ressing it can be a bit frustrating. Understanding your role if you're on the low side can be what becomes a deciding factor whether you will have fun or not.

If I'm doing little damage, first I tag all the mobs to ensure drops/kills/assists/teamscore for achievement needs, drop spikes to increase my output plus any high levels in the area, and then I play carefully to try and maximize all of the above.

However, I guess this subject can be subjective. The connectivity/disconnects has prevented me from playing mostly, though, and I've been playing other games today.

Snowclan
07-30-2014, 05:31 AM
Having help should never make a task more difficult. That's the impossible stupidity of the scaling system. It actively discourages people from working together.

When I am soloing, the difficulty of the missions is about right. If I get help, it should be quicker and easier to complete the mission. It seems to me that the threat level of open world missions should never scale higher than whatever the threat level of the highest Ego player in the area merits, and there should be no additional enemies spawned. That would put the threat cap for open world missions at a 6 I believe.

At least in theory, lower Ego players do scale up based on threat level. They get a boost to their Ego rating, which in turn boosts all figured statistics based on Ego rating, like weapon damage and shield strength. If the missions didn't scale so high, lower Ego players might actually find having help fun again.

Kobalobasileus
07-30-2014, 05:21 PM
Threat Levels have been out of whack since they were first added a few months ago. Personally, I hated playing anything higher than TL5 when I was lower EGO. Now that I'm over 4K, I am fine with TL6.

TL7 doesn't seem to exist, while TL8+ are really not very fun. Those super-high TLs really need to be limited to massive gatherings of people, like Major Arkfalls, Incursions, and Sieges, not the small-scale missions assigned as dailies/weeklies.

Of course, another alternative would be to sand-down the massive stat spiking that happens at EGO 5K+ into a gentler curve, and simultaneously weaken the top-tier enemies a tad.