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Vash Arrok
07-30-2014, 05:47 PM
Wow just when you got to thinking what a waste of time, these have 2 feature values restored.

I havent got a bloodhound yet but Im sure this has just made them more appealing for many. Thumbs up.

Base reload time has been restored to 1.5
Critical damage has been restored to 2.

Im delighted at the move and may well go get one now if only to try it on pvp chasing Tom about the place :D

Deunan
07-31-2014, 12:00 AM
Wow just when you got to thinking what a waste of time, these have 2 feature values restored.

I havent got a bloodhound yet but Im sure this has just made them more appealing for many. Thumbs up.

Base reload time has been restored to 1.5
Critical damage has been restored to 2.

Im delighted at the move and may well go get one now if only to try it on pvp chasing Tom about the place :DNo. The gun wasn't much good before they nerfed it. Those changes were unintended which is why they've been patched. The fact remains that they are literally completely useless outside of 40 meters. There's no value in using them inside of 40 meters because there are plenty of SMGs that will outperform them either by use of falloff barrels or by simply running and gunning to targets and AR's and LMG's have them beat hands down outside of 40 meters. They're explosion radius is too small to provide any substantial group damage bonus. Oh but they do use homing rounds though so I suppose players that miss when they aim at the sky can perform better using a Bloodhound instead of another SMG or other fully automatic weapon. >^^<

duction
07-31-2014, 12:08 AM
Wow just when you got to thinking what a waste of time, these have 2 feature values restored.

I havent got a bloodhound yet but Im sure this has just made them more appealing for many. Thumbs up.

Base reload time has been restored to 1.5
Critical damage has been restored to 2.

Im delighted at the move and may well go get one now if only to try it on pvp chasing Tom about the place :D


Lol we will see.

cmpowell
07-31-2014, 12:19 AM
Wow just when you got to thinking what a waste of time, these have 2 feature values restored.

I havent got a bloodhound yet but Im sure this has just made them more appealing for many. Thumbs up.

Base reload time has been restored to 1.5
Critical damage has been restored to 2.

Im delighted at the move and may well go get one now if only to try it on pvp chasing Tom about the place :D

you do realize they announced almost immediately after the nerf this was unintended and was going back to what it was before which is all this patch did, restore it to it's original stat, right?

anyway the bloodhound was of almost no use before, except in events like incursions as a novelty, in PVE and there are much better weapons for PVP as well. The big stink that was made about it I think was people confusing the gang banger abilities for the bloodhound. such a shame with it's original distance and fire rate it still needed a dmg buff to be used as a primary weapon, but would've been good for a long range/ back up. oh, well

Chump Norris
07-31-2014, 01:03 AM
This gun wasnt OP before the nerf and the fixed mistake still didnt make it useful in PvE.

It really is a shame this game has PvP..

drackiller
07-31-2014, 01:05 AM
I played last night and the reload was taking it`s sweet time...so i don`t know about this fix.

Cavadus
07-31-2014, 08:59 AM
This gun wasnt OP before the nerf and the fixed mistake still didnt make it useful in PvE.

It really is a shame this game has PvP..

No one in PvP was really complaining about the Bloodhound to begin with. It was the Gangbuster that was nuts due to the projectiles clipping through everything including terrain. The Bloodhound was sub-par prior to the nerf.

PvPers at fault? Go check the PvP forum (http://forums.defiance.com/forumdisplay.php?36-PvP). Oh look, not a single thread or post complaining about the bloodhound.

You PvEers ruined it for yourselves. In 17 months we PvPers have gotten one map and a cloak fix. Whoopdy-doo. Clearly we run this entire game though! Everything is our fault!


Grenade change? PvPers.
Turret-less Raptor? PvPers.
EGO scaling? PvPers.
Lockboxes? PvPers.
Arkforge? PvPers.
New Cooper voice? Definitely PvPers.
Crappy hemi engine sound on the Challenger? Oh yeah, we PvPers hate good engine sounds and we're gunning to nerf the Durango's engine sound FYI.

Yup, we're behind it all. Trick gets all of his ideas from us. Well, except any ideas about PvP but everything outside of PvP? Schyeah, that's all us :rolleyes:

JadedSinn
07-31-2014, 09:07 AM
i think i said this befor somewhere. but . ill repeat my self. for the people that keep swaying it was pvp or pve and keep pointing to the forums for the " un seen not here posts " that might of forced the changes.

there is a saport desk in game under the settings tab , any number of players pvp or pve could of easaly gone there and intered a complante/report/issue. to the trion team.

so the forum has nothing to do with why the guns got nerfed it could of all been done via the ingame option. witch is much faster then closeing ur game and haveing to repoen it to post on the forums.

just puting this out there. thought some people would like to know befor all out war between pvpers and pvers started up agine.

my personal beleafe on why it got nerft is becuse of some in game trolls that didnt like the fact that the bloodhound A : didnt shoot though walls, that was the gange buster and B: didnt like the fact that it messed up there little cloak and zagger game that is now also geting fixed come the 5th.

cloak now shimmers like a dark matter snipers. witch measn PVP is now going to be an overly level playing field AGINE like it should be. no more hiddeing and no more infa cloak.

RAGEFIGHTER
07-31-2014, 09:10 AM
bloo hound is useless i was disapointed well ill try afther patch it but don t think it will help dont know other defiant few weapons also sux so bad?

ironcladtrash
07-31-2014, 09:16 AM
No one in PvP was complaining about it outside of the fact it could shoot through terrain, buildings, any physical object, et cetera.

PvPers at fault? Go check the PvP forum (http://forums.defiance.com/forumdisplay.php?36-PvP). Oh look, not a single thread or post complaining about the bloodhound.

You PvEers ruined it for yourselves. In 17 months we PvPers have gotten one map and a cloak fix. Whoopdy-doo. Clearly we run this entire game though! Everything is our fault!


Grenade change? PvPers.
Turret-less Raptor? PvPers.
EGO scaling? PvPers.
Lockboxes? PvPers.
Arkforge? PvPers.
New Cooper voice? Definitely PvPers.
Crappy hemi engine sound on the Challenger? Oh yeah, we PvPers hate good engine sounds and we're gunning to nerf the Durango's engine sound FYI.

Yup, we're behind it all. Trick gets all of his ideas from us. Well, except any ideas about PvP but everything outside of PvP? Schyeah, that's all us :rolleyes:

Let the Holy War commence!!!

I try to be polite and nice to my fellow players (lead developers, deservedly not). However I am starting to get a little tired of the constant PVP blaming. All most of us ever wanted was balance. Trion just can't seem to do that though.

We also don't want separate standard load outs. One big appeal to this game was to take your PVE loot in this game to PVP. Otherwise it has no advantage over any other shooter and would be significantly worse than it is. Brining in your earned PVE loot was a selling point before the game launched and Destiny is stating the same thing now. http://gamingphanatic.com/2012/10/16/defiance-dev-diary-pvp-shadow-war/

KILLSHOT707
07-31-2014, 09:16 AM
No one in PvP was complaining about it outside of the fact it could shoot through terrain, buildings, any physical object, et cetera.

PvPers at fault? Go check the PvP forum (http://forums.defiance.com/forumdisplay.php?36-PvP). Oh look, not a single thread or post complaining about the bloodhound.

You PvEers ruined it for yourselves. In 17 months we PvPers have gotten one map and a cloak fix. Whoopdy-doo. Clearly we run this entire game though! Everything is our fault!


Grenade change? PvPers.
Turret-less Raptor? PvPers.
EGO scaling? PvPers.
Lockboxes? PvPers.
Arkforge? PvPers.
New Cooper voice? Definitely PvPers.
Crappy hemi engine sound on the Challenger? Oh yeah, we PvPers hate good engine sounds and we're gunning to nerf the Durango's engine sound FYI.

Yup, we're behind it all. Trick gets all of his ideas from us. Well, except any ideas about PvP but everything outside of PvP? Schyeah, that's all us :rolleyes:
I think you can find a good size list of guns made useless by PVP cry babies..............

rosetta_cd_29A
07-31-2014, 09:22 AM
gang banger

i giggled !
If they ever make a gun called the gang banger i will apologize to trick for what i said to him in the liestream yesterday. I got a bloodhound yesterday because i liked the silly huge look of it, like some sort of novelty item or children's toy, but it was weak ! Deunan said it best. And from what i understand it is the first gun in a long time that was really new, not just a retexture, too bad.

bigguy
07-31-2014, 09:25 AM
No Cavadus your wrong the thread responsible for the nerf was started by duction and there were plenty of other people who do pvp who chimed in with " nerf everything " , I know i was involved in trying to stop it.

The truth is pvp should have a set of standard weapons because yes its always someone from pvp saying its OP.

bigguy
07-31-2014, 09:33 AM
I agree with deunans post he said it best , it still underperforms other guns and has become a brand new nice looking novelty.

The dev that executed the changes needs to look at this gun again. She said she had no problem reviewing the gun again after the nerf , Well the playerbase is agreeing it underperforms and needs a buff.

ironcladtrash
07-31-2014, 09:37 AM
No Cavadus your wrong the thread responsible for the nerf was started by duction and there were plenty of other people who do pvp who chimed in with " nerf everything " , I know i was involved in trying to stop it.

The truth is pvp should have a set of standard weapons because yes its always someone from pvp saying its OP.

It's Trion's fault for introducing a gun with out even bothering to test for balance. An SMG that shoots rockets would be cool but they probably should have just removed the lock on target ability.

If they make standard PVP load outs they should just remove it altogether. I know most PVE players wouldn't care and would be happy. But farming your loot in PVE for your PVP gear was a big appeal before.

Deunan
07-31-2014, 09:53 AM
No one in PvP was complaining about it outside of the fact it could shoot through terrain, buildings, any physical object, et cetera.

PvPers at fault? Go check the PvP forum (http://forums.defiance.com/forumdisplay.php?36-PvP). Oh look, not a single thread or post complaining about the bloodhound.You obviously didn't bother reading any of the threads in there. Shakk and I were discussing the Bloodhound in one of the most recent threads there. In general, PvP players were posting in this forum asking for a rebalance not in the PvP forum. You had to have been absent for several days while it was going on to have not noticed it as the thread was pretty long and players were posting in it several times a day. There were plenty of complaints in the forums about the Bloodhound in PvP even if you aren't aware of it.

The Bloodhound's rounds didn't pass through objects. Only the Gangbuster's grenades did (and still do) that. A general complaint about both weapons was that they required no skill to hit a target and could lock on to a target from extreme distances. The former part of the complaint was basically a recycled one that has been made constantly about Infectors. The latter part holds true for other weapons which have not been nerfed for it and can kill a player much faster (e.g. just about any sniper rifle). Another complaint was that the pyrotechnics of the rounds made it extremely difficult for players to acquire the player shooting as a target. Combined with the distance they couldn't even determine the general direction of the player in some situations until it was too late (pretty much echoing the complaint about perfect invisibility provided by Cloak).

Unlike the Gang Buster, which was hilariously overpowered if for no other reason than the ability to shoot through objects at great distances, there was no consensus among the PvP community that the Bloodhound needed a nerf. Other players in PvP didn't see the need for it and posted to that effect in the discussions about it.

The sad pathetic thing about the nerf is that the devs didn't adopt a single solution suggested by the players asking for a rebalance of the weapon, all of which were infinitely better suggestions than what they actually did. They asked them to change the locking mechanic so that it only worked at medium ranges or shorter. They asked them to tone down the particle effects. They did not ask them to render the weapon completely useless outside of 40 meters. It was a poorly thought out change among a litany of poorly thought out changes by the devs for the game. I don't blame PvP for the change. I blame the devs. If they had bothered to listen to the suggestions made by the PvP players we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Unfortunately we're all quite painfully aware that this isn't an isolated situation regarding their actions.

Deunan
07-31-2014, 10:00 AM
I think you can find a good size list of guns made useless by PVP cry babies..............Name them.

I wasn't around for some of them but from what others have posted the SAW nerf occurred because of its dominance in PvE not PvP. I know for a fact that the Surge Bolter was nerfed for its dominance in Volge Sieges and not PvP. The only nerfs that I'm aware of before this for PvP were one for one of the infectors because it was literally breaking one of the PvP maps with its high spawn rates and the elimination of damage resistance perk stacking, which, while making some of the PvP players happier, wasn't even what they were asking for (they were asking the devs to close out shield glitch/invulnerability exploits and to hold the cheating players accountable).

Cavadus
07-31-2014, 10:56 AM
@ Deunan,

The "PvP complaints" of the SMG centered around the fact that you could lock-on, run behind a hill, and then shoot and kill someone from behind the hill because the projectiles clipped through everything.

I said this in the very first sentence of the quote you posted.

Holy Bahamut3
07-31-2014, 11:05 AM
Name them.


Sawed offs, surge bolter as PVP was 1/2 the reason for the Nerf, shotgun mag mods, and the defiant few weapons.

Deunan
07-31-2014, 11:17 AM
@ Deunan,

The "PvP complaints" of the SMG centered around the fact that you could lock-on, run behind a hill, and then shoot and kill someone from behind the hill because the projectiles clipped through everything.

I said this in the very first sentence of the quote you posted.And I said that is only a bug for the Gang Buster not the Bloodhound. Did you ever actually use the weapon or have it used against you?

TalynOne
07-31-2014, 11:18 AM
Surge bolter was broken for everything. Volge sieges became one shot fests and races who could aim faster to get the kill. They were also the the go to weapon for Warmaster. Surge bolters simply became the autowin weapon and Trion didn't fix it for months.

TremerChrist
07-31-2014, 11:22 AM
I'm a PVE'r, and have to say everything is nerfed because of PVP'rs. All 12 of them that still play pvp. They complain and cry til Trick just can't take it.
Lol, just joking. Is there even enough pvp'rs left for Trion to nerf guns for. Really, this gun was nerfed in less than a week, and the Zagger is left untouched. It was nerfed because Trinot made a mistake and put something fun in the game. Or they like nerfing things so much, they put it in just to nerf it.

Deunan
07-31-2014, 11:32 AM
surge bolter as PVP was 1/2 the reason for the NerfNo it wasn't. Before players like Nilxain and I started explaining in great detail why players were going to end up almost exclusively relying on Surge Bolters at Volge Sieges they did nothing while the PvP players complained about the gun. The only change they did during all that time before was to fix the hip firing mechanic and that's exactly what it was, a fix not a nerf because it was never intended to work that way.

If players hadn't been continuously complaining about PvE and providing feedback in great detail about what was going on at the Sieges, coupled with the predictions about them becoming the sole loadout starting to come true with dozens of players showing up with them, the devs would have never made the adjustments that they did. It's also still considered OP in PvP by some players.

Sawed-off shotguns and shotgun mag mods isn't exactly what I'd call a long list. The list for weapon enhancements they did for PvE over the past year is significantly longer.

Deunan
07-31-2014, 11:34 AM
Lol, just joking. Is there even enough pvp'rs left for Trion to nerf guns for.According to Trick in the last live stream, there were over 60 players in the Shadow War that one of the staff members participated in on the live PC servers.

Cavadus
07-31-2014, 11:51 AM
And I said that is only a bug for the Gang Buster not the Bloodhound. Did you ever actually use the weapon or have it used against you?

Never personally used the Bloodhound. I did get a Gangbuster to test the projectile clipping. Have had both used against me in Shadow Wars (I don't play arena PvP, hate it). DPS-wise and as far as ease-of-use I never took issue with either of them.

In fact, I'd argue that the Bloodhound sucked before the nerf.

ironcladtrash
07-31-2014, 12:00 PM
It's also still considered OP in PvP by some players.


Count me in this camp. I hate that gun. I am not even sure there is a way to balance that gun so it is fair. The Particle Repeater and Cyclone are very good and balanced charged sniper rifles. The Surge Bolter is an OP POS that shouldn't exist.

cmpowell
07-31-2014, 01:21 PM
@ Deunan,

The "PvP complaints" of the SMG centered around the fact that you could lock-on, run behind a hill, and then shoot and kill someone from behind the hill because the projectiles clipped through everything.

I said this in the very first sentence of the quote you posted.

this compliant was for the gangbuster which is the detonator not the smg and a video was used to show the ability

Cavadus
07-31-2014, 01:44 PM
this compliant was for the gangbuster which is the detonator not the smg and a video was used to show the ability

Yeah, I'm aware of that. I've already said multiple times that the Bloodhound was sub-par before the nerf.

I'm not exactly what sure people think they're trying to tell me.

ironcladtrash
07-31-2014, 02:01 PM
Yeah, I'm aware of that. I've already said multiple times that the Bloodhound was sub-par before the nerf.

I'm not exactly what sure people think they're trying to tell me.

Your original post made it look like you were talking about the bloodhound shooting through objects and not the detonator.

Cavadus
07-31-2014, 02:04 PM
Your original post made it look like you were talking about the bloodhound shooting through objects and not the detonator.

Ah, gotchya. I should go edit that to make it more clear.

Thanks.

Bonehead
07-31-2014, 02:05 PM
In fact, I'd argue that the Bloodhound sucked before the nerf.

You would be in good company.

Z0mb1E
07-31-2014, 02:47 PM
No. The gun wasn't much good before they nerfed it. Those changes were unintended which is why they've been patched. The fact remains that they are literally completely useless outside of 40 meters. There's no value in using them inside of 40 meters because there are plenty of SMGs that will outperform them either by use of falloff barrels or by simply running and gunning to targets and AR's and LMG's have them beat hands down outside of 40 meters. They're explosion radius is too small to provide any substantial group damage bonus. Oh but they do use homing rounds though so I suppose players that miss when they aim at the sky can perform better using a Bloodhound instead of another SMG or other fully automatic weapon. >^^<

^^This pretty much sums it up, if it's ineffective past 40M then it's just garbage sitting next to my TachMag.

Belle Starr
07-31-2014, 02:47 PM
I enjoyed the Bloodhound until I didn't! Truth is, I got it after the change, but I played with it constantly for at least a week, and it was FUN! I made it OJ and remastered it three times to get the "perfect" mastering, and it was FUN! Then I got tired of it when it was no longer FUN, but kept it in case I'm in the mood where it will be FUN again! Part of the draw of the Defiance game to me is the variety of weapons and the ability to mod them, and the Bloodhound is still unique among them with its ability to have RL mods! If you aren't having FUN with a particular weapon, move on and find one you can have FUN with - or better still hope the Devs will give us even more new weapons to have FUN with!. :D

My point is that we the players can suggest new weapons and changes to old weapons, but it is the Devs who make the final decision on the matter. Its not the PVPers. Its not the PVEers. Its the Devs, but I think they have given us enough weapons and mods to keep it FUN for the vast majority of players, and isn't that the purpose of playing any game? :)

Sure, the Devs make decisions that I don't like (like destroying my beloved cloak for PVP) and which change my play (don't expect to see me back in PVP anytime soon). But overall, I'm still having FUN, and have gone back to my VBI SMG-EEC which is my favorite gun, until I pick up a weapon I haven't had yet, then I'll use it until I master it, as long as it's FUN. After a year of play, I still get new weapons I haven't mastered, although not nearly as many as I got before *sigh*, but still enough to keep it FUN for me :D