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Smiit
07-31-2014, 01:58 PM
At first when they implemented it I was like COOL! Now, months after I realize why this thing sucks so badly. Before, when the leaderboard was damage based everyone tried their best to kill the hellion (example) targeted its weakpoint for maximum and critical damage. Now everyone is trying to keep certain bosses or enemies alive so they can do the least amount of damage to get he maximum score using teamwork points. Really doesnt feel as satisfying as the damage based score.

SirServed
07-31-2014, 02:15 PM
On top of the low damage output players, high EGO players are even investing in Bio weapons for armor plate breaking points while they kill everything slowly. It's a damn shame.

PiccolaRivolta
07-31-2014, 02:49 PM
high EGO players are even investing in Bio weapons for armor plate breaking points while they kill everything slowly. It's a damn shame.
And what's wrong with that? If they choose bio it's because of its usefulness compared to other nanos, it also gives an advantage for everyone who is shooting the same enemy. So don't complain.

DeadEye68
07-31-2014, 05:05 PM
On top of the low damage output players, high EGO players are even investing in Bio weapons for armor plate breaking points while they kill everything slowly. It's a damn shame.

Playing according to game design we are. I would mind running around using so-called "high damage" nanos exclusively while cursing I have to use insane amounts of ammo, instead of using bio to remove armor and switch to fire once those pesky plates are gone, which allows me both to score well and deal sufficient damage.
That being said, I do agree armor/full armor break bonuses tend to be ridiculously high, therefore making bio the most profitable nano.

Etaew
07-31-2014, 06:48 PM
Gaming of the score system does bother me, like the encouragement to deploy an ego power just before the boss dies.

But what bothers me more is that I feel I am forced to drop everything and shoot the boss (I'm looking at you Monolith) or I feel that I am losing out, I feel that if I am reviving someone, or clearing adds which are endangering people I am contributing just as much to the fight as people hitting the boss.

BlackTalons
07-31-2014, 08:30 PM
At first when they implemented it I was like COOL! Now, months after I realize why this thing sucks so badly. Before, when the leaderboard was damage based everyone tried their best to kill the hellion (example) targeted its weakpoint for maximum and critical damage. Now everyone is trying to keep certain bosses or enemies alive so they can do the least amount of damage to get he maximum score using teamwork points. Really doesnt feel as satisfying as the damage based score.

What does the Teamwork points stand for?

Deunan
08-01-2014, 12:30 AM
And what's wrong with that? If they choose bio it's because of its usefulness compared to other nanos, it also gives an advantage for everyone who is shooting the same enemy. So don't complain.It doesn't give any advantage to players that go straight for the crit spots on mobs because hits to the crit spot bypass armor plates. It doesn't give any advantage to players that use radiation weapons unless the mob has a lot of armor plates. With 2 exceptions, the bio-nano weapons that players are using to increase the chance of getting armor break, and full break points aren't high DPS weapons. If you want to kill mobs fast there's no reason to not use a high DPS weapon regardless of the nano effect of the weapon and there's absolutely no reason to have more than one in your loadout but I see players that have 2 guns and a grenade all for bio damage.

Shakk
08-01-2014, 01:10 AM
The worst part with the scoring system is the "Power kill".

Where saving your EGO power until the last 10 seconds grants you about 100k score in arkfalls.
So basicly not using your +30% damage ego power untill the last moment gives you far more score than someone with overcharge constantly activated EXCEPT when the hellion dies.

Nice brain.

430005
08-01-2014, 01:24 AM
Gaming of the score system does bother me, like the encouragement to deploy an ego power just before the boss dies.

Scoring is a winning tactic and defines the loot. It is linked with the score boost, score matters. So is behaviour surrounding it. You do not clear adds or revive others when an arkfall boss is vulnerable. You do not revive others when you do WM (period).

If you aren't shooting the boss when you should, you are being a d0uche to yourself. Play the game as it is intended and use the winning strategy (with boost).

The score mechanic supports teamplay because you will be searching for bosses who are ready for the slaugther instead of searching solo for arkfalls and killing the smaller sites before getting to the boss. It promotes cooperation. Some bosses (like Matron) just need more HP.

Another downside I see is that only the BIO nano has become usefull lowering the popularity of the other (4!) nano effects. The other types have become obsolete and less valued.


If you want to kill mobs fast there's no reason to not use a high DPS weapon regardless of the nano effect of the weapon and there's absolutely no reason to have more than one in your loadout but I see players that have 2 guns and a grenade all for bio damage.

You do not kill WM unless you are in a fixed group. If you PUG, you go for score. This has been supported by Trick, I will refer to posts about timer and (upcoming) score changes.

I do not understand what all the drama is about. Trick explained he does not want lock keepers. You go in, you score, you get out. That's the way WM is intended to be played.

You want to go do DPS and kill WM, do it in your own time (with your own team).

Bonehead
08-01-2014, 01:29 AM
This tactic has been supported by Trick
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/giphy4_zps57ab8f83.gif




You want to go do DPS and kill WM, do it in your own time. Just don't do it in a PUG.

Every last little thing I do in this game, I do on my own time.

430005
08-01-2014, 01:36 AM
Every last little thing I do in this game, I do on my own time.

I mean that Trick explained you should setup your team BEFORE entering WM. Not WHILE entering WM. Thus, if you go in without a team and PUG it, you should be prepared for fail.

The scoring system negates that entirely and does not rely on killing WM. It values a high score loadout. That this can be a loadout that does less damage is beside the point.

Bonehead
08-01-2014, 02:04 AM
I mean that Trick explained you should setup your team BEFORE entering WM. Not WHILE entering WM. Thus, if you go in without a team and PUG it, you should be prepared for fail.



It would be great if there were a way to do that and end up with a team in the same interior instance. Sadly there is no way to set up a team ahead of time that will be sure to end up together in the warmaster chamber. A raid boss with no raid mechanic.
His way of doing it is well understood. It just doesn't work that well if you want to beat him.

Edit;
JadedSinn started this thread. http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?169695-will-WM-start-poping-with-new-clan-telaport-change

With the new go to clan member teleport function, clans will have an easier time getting larger groups in the same instance.

DeadEye68
08-01-2014, 03:32 AM
Thus, if you go in without a team and PUG it, you should be prepared for fail.

Well yeah, we're so stupid. Why don't we create a full group of 24 before entering ? Oh, wait ... max group size is 4. There must be some relation.

430005
08-01-2014, 04:06 AM
Why don't we create a full group of 24 before entering ?

Because I believe Trick mentioned you can do WM perfectly fine with 8, AND if we did have a raid interface, he would have made the monkey a lot harder.

Also he stated that he checks numbers on WM and would change it if they didn't add up. Well, WM hasnt been changed so everythin workin as intended ;)

SirServed
08-01-2014, 04:14 AM
Because I believe Trick mentioned you can do WM perfectly fine with 8, AND if we did have a raid interface, he would have made the monkey a lot harder.

Also he stated that he checks numbers on WM and would change it if they didn't add up. Well, WM hasnt been changed so everythin workin as intended ;)
Perfectly fine with 8? I do suppose you're perfectly fine in a fight that hands up rewards regardless of how poorly you do.

430005
08-01-2014, 04:21 AM
I do suppose you're perfectly fine in a fight that hands up rewards regardless of how poorly you do.

Well, this is a thread about scoring, not DPS or killing the WM. Doing "poorly" is in the eye of the beholder. You can score just fine without doing max DPS.

BJWyler
08-01-2014, 04:29 AM
Well, this is a thread about scoring, not DPS or killing the WM. Doing "poorly" is in the eye of the beholder. You can score just fine without doing max DPS.

And for a shooter, which is supposed to be about skill, that's a problem. I am not a shooter type of player, and I can see the problems with the current "design" of the game.

SirServed
08-01-2014, 05:08 AM
Well, this is a thread about scoring, not DPS or killing the WM. Doing "poorly" is in the eye of the beholder. You can score just fine without doing max DPS.
I can also score pretty well WHILE doing max DPS. Wait, that doesn't make any sense. You can't shoot things in the face with a high DPS weapon and kill them before you break all of their armor plates, that would be cheating!

430005
08-01-2014, 05:28 AM
I can also score pretty well WHILE doing max DPS. Wait, that doesn't make any sense.

Correct, that doesn't make any sense. Scoring > doing DPS. Why would you use a DPS loadout that can score when you can use a score loadout for max keys and AF? You're not going to be rewarded extra by doing more DPS. You ARE going to be rewarded extra with a higher score.

It's not that youre going to kill WM. Even if you did, theres no extra reward for doing so. If you're statement would be logical, everybody would be using a pure DPS build. Well, it isn't.

Kanah
08-01-2014, 06:10 AM
Correct, that doesn't make any sense. Scoring > doing DPS. Why would you use a DPS loadout that can score when you can use a score loadout for max keys and AF? You're not going to be rewarded extra by doing more DPS. You ARE going to be rewarded extra with a higher score.

Maybe this is why I like volge sieges the best. I often get top place with a big attack/defend score and very little assists. I think it's because whatever I point my gun at, I kill.

To get a good score with the failmonkey though, I have to swap to bio. Raw damage doesn't count for much there. Nevermind, I think he's cute. Save the monkey!

drackiller
08-01-2014, 06:44 AM
... You can score just fine without doing max DPS.
And you don`t find that a contradiction by itself!?

430005
08-01-2014, 08:09 AM
And you don`t find that a contradiction by itself!?

Not if you're playing Defiance, no. Are YOU using a max dps loadout or a max score loadout?

Smiit
08-01-2014, 08:50 AM
Uh oh... ok change of topic everyone! Ponies!!!!!

Deunan
08-01-2014, 12:03 PM
You do not clear adds or revive others when an arkfall boss is vulnerable.If your goal is to max out points this is bad advice. You get kill points for taking out adds. You only get kill points once for the boss so you simply have to be mindful of the status of its health. You also get additional armor break and full break points that you won't get from the boss because, other than the Warmaster, armor plates don't regenerate on boss mobs.


You do not revive others when you do WM (period).More bad advice if you are not going for the kill. The whole point of not reviving other players is to keep the group DPS maxed out for a kill. It has absolutely nothing to do with score as any informed player can tell you because score from teamwork and opportunist points caps out from inflicting max DPS on the Warmaster rather quickly once the crystal armor cracks. If you're whoring for points, reviving other players will give you additional points on top of the ones you get once DPS caps out. The only reason not to revive players in that case is if you're worried about getting downed yourself in the process but I've seen players use high fire rate Syphon weapons to hedge against that happening.


The score mechanic supports teamplay because you will be searching for bosses who are ready for the slaugther instead of searching solo for arkfalls and killing the smaller sites before getting to the boss. It promotes cooperation.You have to have a pretty warped notion of what entails teamplay to think that is an example of teamplay. It's not as if the bosses just magically spawn because there's an Arkfall Fairy that waves it's magic wand when they decide there should be one. The boss spawns because of the efforts of others that you're leeching off of by refraining from participating at the smaller fragments. If that's your idea of team work then please let me know if you play on the PC servers and your IGN so I can avoid you like the plague.


You do not kill WM unless you are in a fixed group. If you PUG, you go for score. This has been supported by Trick, I will refer to posts about timer and (upcoming) score changes.Trick never said that you go into the Warmaster to fail. He simply said that the pacing for events should not be slow like it is for raids in other games. As soon as the timers were implemented I was in three PUGs in a row that killed the Warmaster and we didn't zerg him to do it. It's because of players that use play to lose tactics to wh0re for points against the Warmaster that killing him has become almost impossible to do in a PUG. Getting points for armor breaks and full breaks against the Warmaster doesn't have to be mutually exclusive to killing him but I've seen idiotic loadouts that needlessly and significantly compromise DPS for it.

The scoring system is broken and dysfunctional even if you can't comprehend that fact. In an ideal scoring system for an MMO shooter game, the game would reward efficiency for participating and completing as much of an event as possible as fast as possible. The latter part only comes if players strive to improve their DPS but there's little incentive for them to do so with the hot mess that we have now.

SirServed
08-01-2014, 12:07 PM
Correct, that doesn't make any sense. Scoring > doing DPS. Why would you use a DPS loadout that can score when you can use a score loadout for max keys and AF? You're not going to be rewarded extra by doing more DPS. You ARE going to be rewarded extra with a higher score.

It's not that youre going to kill WM. Even if you did, theres no extra reward for doing so. If you're statement would be logical, everybody would be using a pure DPS build. Well, it isn't.
You missed the sarcasm. I killed WM with another person on PTS yesterday. I carried the hell out of him and scored 475k points in my DPS loadout. He scored 96k using Bio weapons. While I was killing the boss, he was waiting for his chance to break regenerating armor plates. I do the fight to win for better chances at loot rewards. Keys and forge will happen for me simply because I know how to press kill.

Not that you score jerkers would know, but you get 50k points for killing the boss, modified by "circumstances". The fight was created before the scoring system even existed, I'll leave that to your imagination. Trion turned a DPS race boss into an Arkforge cow when they released the "reward points" for breaking armor plates hotfix. Their attempt to improve a flawed system completely broke an encounter which causes people like you to misunderstand the purpose of the content. "If they stopped WM from regenerating armor plates, this scoring issue would go away." -Darien Stegosaur

If WM was intended to be a "score as high as you can in 7 minutes" fight, why not simply make him the ultimate bullet sponge and take measures to make sure he can't die within 7 minutes? Because in some way, shape, or form, he was intended to be killed:

When the boss gets away, your DLC2 drop will rarity roll from Green to Purple. 0% chance to be Orange.
When the boss dies, your DLC2 drop will rarity roll from Purple to Orange. 8% chance to be Orange.

Encryption is coming in 4 days. 800 Arkforge will no longer fix failure.

drackiller
08-01-2014, 12:23 PM
Encryption is coming in 4 days. 800 Arkforge will no longer fix failure.

Nailed it...

430005
08-01-2014, 12:41 PM
If your goal is to max out points this is bad advice.

If you want to revive other people and shoot adds during an arkfall while boss is up, fine by me.


The whole point of not reviving other players is to keep the group DPS maxed out for a kill.

Scorefarming or kill, I dont revive other players, except on rare ocassions where it just easy to do so.


The boss spawns because of the efforts of others that you're leeching off of..

When arkfall bosses are up, it is most effective to TP to the boss and kill it. When nothing is up then you can do the smaller ones. You are not in a clan are you? I could explain to you how an arkfall works, but I think you already know, you just don't want to admit it. Hate the game, not the player ;)


Trick never said that you go into the Warmaster to fail.

Neither did I. I just stated the scorefarm is supported by the cashshop, the mechanics, the players and complements Trick's Lockbreaker strategy the best. Win or fail does not matter when scorefarming.


I killed WM with another person on PTS yesterday.

Well, it is good to know that the WM is killable with only 2 people. Should stop other players from whining that he is difficult. In my experience I hardly ever kill him when i join a PUG, thus scorefarming is better.

As I said before, I would not recommend using a kill loadout in a PUG. Apparently you can carry a whole raid and kill WM daily. My runs differ and therefor I always run with a score loadout to just farm keys/AF.


Encryption is coming in 4 days. 800 Arkforge will no longer fix failure.

Encryption is coming in 4 days. The chance for you to get a decent weapon just became 80% smaller.

Monkerlotus
08-01-2014, 12:53 PM
Just play how you find fun, baddies will always have low scores.

When I DPS i'm almost always at the top of the score board, same when I'm leveling BMG (ALMOST DONE!!) or some other weapons, that (before this score patch) could not be used AT ALL.


Like it or not, the score system supports alternate play-styles aside from the old Rooty tooty point then shooty style.

Other players scores are not relevant to you at all, if you are earning the rewards you want, then you are winning.

We are getting a scoreboard update Soontm that will also show peoples unboosted scores, so there is hope for the E-peen yet in this game.

Deunan
08-01-2014, 12:57 PM
Encryption is coming in 4 days. The chance for you to get a decent weapon just became 80% smaller.That's an extremely simplistic view on the matter that lacks insight. Your chances of even getting an Epic Arbreaker weapon are miniscule outside of killing the Warmaster, and your chances of getting one that isn't encrypted is even smaller. For other weapons the same concept applies. With the way RNG works the chances of getting an Epic with all good rolls or at least no bad ones has always been on the low side. It's going to be exponentially lower to have that happen and not have encryption on the weapon.

Festival
08-01-2014, 01:32 PM
IWell, it is good to know that the WM is killable with only 2 people. Should stop other players from whining that he is difficult.

That's an artifact of the scaling system. With one or two people in the room, he isn't (all that) difficult. He's at a low TL and while you still need to have a serious DPS loadout and know what you're doing, he's actually solo-able. Unfortunately, the scaling is still pretty wonky, and once you get a couple-three more people in the room, the WM shoots up to TL10. No one can "carry" the run at that point.

Bonehead
08-01-2014, 01:43 PM
Uh oh... ok change of topic everyone! Ponies!!!!!

Here are a bunch of ponies!

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/2014-08-01_00008_zps8e300b32.jpg

N3gativeCr33p
08-01-2014, 01:48 PM
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/2014-08-01_00008_zps8e300b32.jpg

Nice picture and all, but can I see more from Silicon Valley? I can see that same kind of Dodge commercial over at Muir or Last Chance.

LOL :)

(And damn, nice textures over there in PC Town. Luckyyyyyyy.)

SirServed
08-01-2014, 02:15 PM
Encryption is coming in 4 days. The chance for you to get a decent weapon just became 80% smaller.
Has Legendary Outlaw Needler with Radiation.
Has Epic Veteran Quickshot Blaster with Radiation.
Has Legendary Outlaw Needler with Incendiary.
Has Legendary Assassin 'Headshot' Custom Bolter with Radiation in mag slot.
Has Legendary Stalker Clusterdrop Detonator.

I already have decent weapons from WM. I've been hunting perfect versions of these DLC2 items to no success, mainly due to their low drop chance to begin with. Adding score jerkers and people that generally have no desire to win the fight only makes it worse.

Bonehead
08-01-2014, 02:24 PM
Nice picture and all, but can I see more from Silicon Valley? I can see that same kind of Dodge commercial over at Muir or Last Chance.

LOL :)

(And damn, nice textures over there in PC Town. Luckyyyyyyy.)

Okay, short little derail here but...

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/2014-08-01_00015_zpsa4946b6f.jpg

430005
08-01-2014, 02:50 PM
Adding score jerkers and people that generally have no desire to win the fight only makes it worse.

I am there to farm keys and arkforge and I achieve my goal just fine. If you want to kill WM, make your own team. That you can not achieve yours is none of my concern.

Bonehead
08-01-2014, 02:59 PM
I am there to farm keys and arkforge and I achieve my goal just fine. If you want to kill WM, make your own team. That you can not achieve yours is none of my concern.

Thank you, that clears it up nicely.

DeadEye68
08-01-2014, 03:04 PM
If you want to kill WM, make your own team.

What part of "we can't have teams bigger than 4 ingame" don't you understand ?

No need to insist btw. We perfectly understood you don't give a flying crap about anything but your personal profit.

At least timers achieved something. Instead of having the WM event "taken hostage" by people wanting to succeed, it's now "taken hostage" by people wanting to score.

BJWyler
08-01-2014, 03:51 PM
Okay, short little derail here but...

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/2014-08-01_00015_zpsa4946b6f.jpg

You know, that would be so much more satisfying if we could plant a spike and be the ones to bring that baby down, again and again and again.

N3gativeCr33p
08-01-2014, 03:53 PM
http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/2014-08-01_00015_zpsa4946b6f.jpg

That's what I'm talking about! Did you have a cup of tea while you were there? lol

ConcreteSnake
08-01-2014, 04:33 PM
The worst part with the scoring system is the "Power kill".

Where saving your EGO power until the last 10 seconds grants you about 100k score in arkfalls.
So basicly not using your +30% damage ego power untill the last moment gives you far more score than someone with overcharge constantly activated EXCEPT when the hellion dies.

Nice brain.

or you have a weapon with 10% ego on full reload purple roll and run pumped up perk and a power stim.....big damage, big score, all the time.

IcecuebPAL
08-01-2014, 04:48 PM
I don't know how the old system was like, for I started playing after the new system was implemented. But I usually get #1 or in the top 5 after each Ark. I just spam my SMG.

ironcladtrash
08-01-2014, 04:56 PM
On top of the low damage output players, high EGO players are even investing in Bio weapons for armor plate breaking points while they kill everything slowly. It's a damn shame.

My load out would be the same regardless of scoring system. I use my bio Needler and a crit weapon usually a ranger. Not everyone is doing it just for score. I don't kill things slowly though. Earlier today I must have been the only using bio to break the armor plates. The few I got into the plates wouldn't break unless I was shooting at the WM, they weren't dropping when I had to reload or refill my ammo.

ironcladtrash
08-01-2014, 04:58 PM
I don't know how the old system was like, for I started playing after the new system was implemented. But I usually get #1 or in the top 5 after each Ark. I just spam my SMG.


The old scoring system was how damage you did. Contributing scores were over 1 million. It was pretty easy to get that high but there were also tons of people that couldn't do it because they use the wrong weapons, perks and tactics.

IcecuebPAL
08-01-2014, 05:11 PM
Well I wish the old scoring system was still in place, or at the least, they added another category that showed how much total damage you have done. I have always wondered at the end of these Arks how much total damage I have done.

I have also literally skipped all the other mini Arks inside the giant red circle and have only gone to the last one (where the boss is), and was still able to get #1 or #2. I don't know if that is some cheese or if that is me being good. I'm going to lean on the cheese though.

ironcladtrash
08-01-2014, 05:18 PM
Well I wish the old scoring system was still in place, or at the least, they added another category that showed how much total damage you have done. I have always wondered at the end of these Arks how much total damage I have done.

They said awhile ago they would give us an individual score too, but who knows when. They took away the damage scores being seen by every one because apparently providing tips on WM tactics and load outs was abusive behavior. Which btw in case you haven't seen it here is the most recent and good WM guide.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?160891-Simple-Warmaster-Guide

Deunan
08-01-2014, 05:18 PM
I don't know if that is some cheese or if that is me being good. I'm going to lean on the cheese though.It's pure cheese. Kill shot points are based on the mobs health and because the boss at the end has much higher health than normal mobs, you get a ludicrous amount of points for landing a shot within about 4 seconds of when he dies.

IcecuebPAL
08-01-2014, 06:13 PM
Yeah I just did another Ark used these exploits.

Losobal
08-02-2014, 12:18 AM
Eh, I don't mind. I can get to the top of the leaderboard with decent regularity, but its not like it MEANS anything, hell, with the fickle RNGs its not like being number one gets you any better loot. 90 percent of the time its just junk (even if purple) that gets thrown away/sold/salvaged.

430005
08-02-2014, 07:05 AM
Yeah I just did another Ark used these exploits.

Scorefarming keys and arkforge is not an exploit. It is the way Warmaster is intended to be played. If you can't kill the Warmaster, it's because you got too many shlttty players in your group.

Many emokids on forum dont want to hurt noobie's feelings and need someone to blame. You want to kill WM, you have to make sure new low EGO players leave the raid or you make your own team.

Since the first might cause a petition for harassment, the latter is the better option.

drackiller
08-02-2014, 07:08 AM
Scorefarming keys and arkforge is not an exploit. It is the way Warmaster is intended to be played. If you can't kill the Warmaster, that's because you got too many shlttty players in your group.

Many emokids on forum dont want to hurt noobie's feelings and need someone to blame. You want to kill WM, you make sure you new low EGO players leave the raid or you make your own team.

Do you even know what your talking about , for real?
Being low level isn`t the same as being a noob or a bad player.
Granted that a low level EGO can`t make as much damage as a high ego one, but a low EGO player that knows what is doing can do alot of damage in the WM chamber.
For better of worst, i always go there for the win, even if i lose.

430005
08-02-2014, 07:12 AM
but a low EGO player that knows what is doing can do alot of damage in the WM chamber.

You want me to put in fine print to exclude alts? You know im talking bout the useless noobs that only increase the HP. When i set up a team to kill WM, most players are around 5k.

I am sure you can come up with a story you did WM with 10 players all lower then 500 EGO players, but it seems my reality differs with some of you here on forum.

You want to blame a fail raid? Point your finger at the right people. Just takes me 1 swap to have a DPS loadout. Don't blame scorefarmers. We play as intended.

drackiller
08-02-2014, 07:15 AM
You want me to put in fine print to exclude alts? You know im talking bout the useless noobs that only increase the HP. When i set up a team to kill WM, most players are around 5k.

I am sure you can come up with a story you did WM with 10 players all lower then 500 EGO players, but it seems my reality differs with some of you here on forum.

It seams to me that you are trying to be something else.
I can go to the WM chamber with a low level EGO, and by low i mean everything under 1k, and i can score (dammage in the old days) in the TOP (depending on the players there), and i can score at the top regarding whoom ever is there.
I don`t play this game since January 2014...

430005
08-02-2014, 07:17 AM
I already stated previously that you can score without much effort as a low level EGO. Doesnt mean you dish out the same DPS as a 5k EGO player. Score isnt the same as DPS.

And what is exactly the point you are trying to make? That a knowledgable alt can do DPS? I am just pointing out why WM raids fail. You know it's true.

drackiller
08-02-2014, 07:19 AM
So? I already stated previously that you can score without much effort as a low level EGO. Doesnt mean you dish out the same DPS as a 5k EGO player. Score isnt the same as DPS.

And what is exactly the point you are trying to make?

And what i trying to say to you is , that regardless of being low lvl EGO i can put enough dammage on the Monkey and not be called a dead weight...got it!? I go there for the win, not for whooore score.

430005
08-02-2014, 07:22 AM
I go there for the win, not for whooore score.

Good for you. Can you give me a percentage of your uber win percentage in PUGs? And then Clan runs?

So 1% of all the low EGO players can be an alt of a player who knows what he is doing. So what?

I wont apologise for using a score loadout when I pug. It's completely valid and logical.

drackiller
08-02-2014, 08:36 AM
Good for you. Can you give me a percentage of your uber win percentage in PUGs? And then Clan runs?

So 1% of all the low EGO players can be an alt of a player who knows what he is doing. So what?

I wont apologise for using a score loadout when I pug. It's completely valid and logical.

Nor i am trying to make you feel guilty about that m8, it`s just that this game has had so many turn arounds that i stick to the gameplay i know.

430005
08-02-2014, 09:33 AM
Nor i am trying to make you feel guilty about that m8

You still didn't answer my question. Whats your percentage on PUG kills vs. clan kills?

If you are a good player, your own numbers should already prove that "scorewhoring" is better, smarter and more profitable for pug WMs. Why some of you still chose to play a loosing tactic is beyond me.

Also, I think some of you players should apologise to people "scorewhoring" because some of the behaviour I see in WM's is just the same harassment before timers were introduced.

Instead of having the WM event "taken hostage" by people wanting to force a playstyle on others, it's now "taken hostage" by people wanting to playstyle on others. I bet its the same people.

Look at the situation. In pugs a kill mostly isnt realistic. Let people play the way they want.

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves."

Holy Bahamut3
08-02-2014, 10:24 AM
You still didn't answer my question. Whats your percentage on PUG kills vs. clan kills?

If you are a good player, your own numbers should already prove that "scorewhoring" is better, smarter and more profitable for pug WMs. Why some of you still chose to play a loosing tactic is beyond me.

Also, I think some of you players should apologise to people "scorewhoring" because some of the behaviour I see in WM's is just the same harassment before timers were introduced.

Instead of having the WM event "taken hostage" by people wanting to force a playstyle on others, it's now "taken hostage" by people wanting to playstyle on others. I bet its the same people.

Look at the situation. In pugs a kill mostly isnt realistic. Let people play the way they want.

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves."

People like you are why I stopped fighting the monkey. *slow clap*

N3gativeCr33p
08-02-2014, 10:30 AM
You want to blame a fail raid? Point your finger at the right people.

My finger points at the right people... the ones who designed a poorly implemented raid, The Company.

Festival
08-02-2014, 10:34 AM
Also, I think some of you players should apologise to people "scorewhoring" because some of the behaviour I see in WM's is just the same harassment before timers were introduced.

Abusing scorewhoring leeches is the only thing that might actually make me enter a Warmaster ever again. Might as well get some entertainment out of what would otherwise be a frustrating, pointless waste of time...

But to answer your question, prior to the (idiotic and divisive) change in the scoring system, things had gotten to the point where the PUG groups I was in tended to win about half the time. If you didn't have some bellend breaking the locks early, that percentage went up. People know what they were doing by that point. That dropped to about 20% of the time after the scoring change and Bullet Sponge patch...and has been declining ever since.

Of course, very, very few of the heavy hitters from back then still do Warmasters (those that have remained in the game at all). There's a pretty decent sized movement (on PC/NA) among veterans to boycott the WM. I haven't done one in weeks.

Holy Bahamut3
08-02-2014, 10:41 AM
Abusing scorewhoring leeches is the only thing that might actually make me enter a Warmaster ever again. Might as well get some entertainment out of what would otherwise be a frustrating, pointless waste of time...

But to answer your question, prior to the (idiotic and divisive) change in the scoring system, things had gotten to the point where the PUG groups I was in tended to win about half the time. If you didn't have some bellend breaking the locks early, that percentage went up. People know what they were doing by that point. That dropped to about 20% of the time after the scoring change and Bullet Sponge patch...and has been declining ever since.

Of course, very, very few of the heavy hitters from back then still do Warmasters (those that have remained in the game at all). There's a pretty decent sized movement (on PC/NA) among veterans to boycott the WM. I haven't done one in weeks.

I think there is a consensus on Xbox from the vets as well, but it could vary by clan. I think what our numbered friend fails to grasp is that we may have spent the time building a raid group, just because its a PUG to him doesn't mean it is for everyone. NOBODY wants to pull a score****** dead weight. I refuse to be called a troll for trying to educate new players so as soon as the insult blog came out I stopped doing Major arkbreaks.

drackiller
08-02-2014, 10:44 AM
You still didn't answer my question. Whats your percentage on PUG kills vs. clan kills?

If you are a good player, your own numbers should already prove that "scorewhoring" is better, smarter and more profitable for pug WMs. Why some of you still chose to play a loosing tactic is beyond me.

Also, I think some of you players should apologise to people "scorewhoring" because some of the behaviour I see in WM's is just the same harassment before timers were introduced.

Instead of having the WM event "taken hostage" by people wanting to force a playstyle on others, it's now "taken hostage" by people wanting to playstyle on others. I bet its the same people.

Look at the situation. In pugs a kill mostly isnt realistic. Let people play the way they want.

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves."
Hmmm, i always play PUG and no Clan at all.
I`m not in a clan and i`m always being invited for the WM events, i think that speaks for it self.
And i`m not holding to a losing tactic, i`m holding to a tactic that , if played correctly, will allow me to WIN.

Lately i`ve been in several PUGs with less than 10 players, and i just score when i know that it`s a loss before even starts. Those ones are just for the score.
I`m not a good player, sorry if i mislead you, i`m not. But i know how to play this game.

Olipyr
08-02-2014, 01:24 PM
Just did my first WM instance last night. I personally enjoyed it. We won. I'm not in a clan nor do I have any friends that play, so most everything I do is a PUG or solo.

I will say I liked having a damage based scoring system. Perhaps a hybrid of the two would be best. The last time I played it was damage based, so I'm still a bit confused at the whole score based thing. Well, I'm confused at a lot of the things that were changed, to be perfectly honest.

Yay, my first post in the forums.

josec35
08-03-2014, 08:39 PM
I see people farm warmaster all the time... mostly high ego people