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View Full Version : Has the TV show gotten dark and seedy?



Chocolatelover67
08-01-2014, 07:31 PM
I keep reading this from supposed people that watch the show. On the IMDB there's a long thread on their Defiance message board about this.

If you don't like the show why would you still watch it?

I haven't watched the 2nd season as it's not on TV here and I do not want or have Pay TV as I feel that's a bit of a rip off and a con.

However I've been following the show a lot in chats and online via messaging people in various places.

Seems a lot of people watch the show but are complaining that it's gotten too dark and seedy and too much sex and violence..... Comparing it to daytime soap or Game Of Thrones which seems to rely on that kind of stuff according to some people..

Anyway that's my random rant for the day.




Cheerio

Wraither
08-01-2014, 07:36 PM
Everything is a soap these days. Star Trek was a soap, BSG was a soap, anime's are soaps, crime drama show are soaps... they are just thinly disguised as something other than soaps

Season two of Defiance imo is waaaay better than season one, but honestly, it's a show about surviving in a bleak, barren, mostly destroyed world. It's not gonna be about sunshine and lolipops, rainbows and... you get the idea

Personally, I like the show and I watch it.

Etaew
08-01-2014, 07:39 PM
I do find some of the scenes to be overly dark and seedy yes, not something I particularly enjoy but there are ties to the game so meh.

3rdpig
08-01-2014, 07:46 PM
It's non stop cheap soap opera. Yea, some of the others, particular the new BSG was also a lot of soap too, but there has to be a mix of action, plot and story advancement or the show will lose anyone who cares about those things. The last 3 episodes of Defiance failed in all those regards...in my opinion of course.

But it had some great simulated sex and a neat scene, albeit stolen from Blade Runner, with Datak forcing his thumbs in some dude's eyes. Aaaand it was a Doctor.....Aaaaannnnd he specialized in eye parts. They say there's nothing new under the sun, but c'mon. But at least Datak had the great line "I promised the wife".

Chocolatelover67
08-01-2014, 07:46 PM
BTW what is Rynn's last name?

I keep thinking it's Rynn Chollo

3rdpig
08-01-2014, 07:54 PM
Everything is a soap these days. Star Trek was a soap, BSG was a soap, anime's are soaps, crime drama show are soaps... they are just thinly disguised as something other than soaps

Season two of Defiance imo is waaaay better than season one, but honestly, it's a show about surviving in a bleak, barren, mostly destroyed world. It's not gonna be about sunshine and lolipops, rainbows and... you get the idea

Personally, I like the show and I watch it.

Just because it's not sunshine and lollipops doesn't mean it has to about having sex with anyone who will stand still long enough for you to get your pants off. I think last year was much, much better. More action, more story, more plot. I've watched A grade p0rn that has more plot and story than this years Defiance. And much, much better sex...and to be brutally honest, better looking women.

nathanpbutler
08-01-2014, 08:00 PM
It has always pushed the envelope some with what kind of sexual material can show up in a basic cable prime-time program. Usually, it is done without any story need whatsoever. I mean, what story role did it play for Datak to try to get a hand job from Doc?

If sexual situations fit a story, then use them, but do it in a classy way, rather than feeling like you're jealous of Game of Thrones, which is itself so over the top as to redefine what over the top means for a modern drama, but at least it's on HBO...

Wraither
08-01-2014, 08:30 PM
Just because it's not sunshine and lollipops doesn't mean it has to about having sex with anyone who will stand still long enough for you to get your pants off. I think last year was much, much better. More action, more story, more plot. I've watched A grade p0rn that has more plot and story than this years Defiance. And much, much better sex...and to be brutally honest, better looking women.

I don't recall saying anything about sunshine and lolipops or a lack of equating to sex in any way, so I'm not sure where you got that from

I personally like season 2 better because the episodes are not quite as depressing. Both seasons have merit in their own way and there is no right or wrong. As far as the sex goes... meh. I could take it or leave it. The show is not about sex, it's just something the writers feel adds to the story I guess.

Just my opinion.

Chocolatelover67
08-01-2014, 08:33 PM
I don't recall saying anything about sunshine and lolipops or a lack of equating to sex in any way, so I'm not sure where you got that from

I personally like season 2 better because the episodes are not quite as depressing. Both seasons have merit in their own way and there is no right or wrong. As far as the sex goes... meh. I could take it or leave it. The show is not about sex, it's just something the writers feel adds to the story I guess.

Just my opinion.


Only they do use a lot of it........


I'm still waiting for a heavy science fiction related event in an episode. Too much drama and tension, I want escapism now dammit LOL

Kanah
08-02-2014, 01:09 AM
I'm still waiting for a heavy science fiction related event in an episode. Too much drama and tension, I want escapism now dammit LOL

Agreed, but proper hard science fiction is rare because it requires intelligent writers and the viewers are mostly too stupid to understand.

At least we've not been subjected to the usual shtako of ridiculously improbable event threatens to destroy the earth and only one lone misfit and her cop partner can save us all. Oh, wait...

Bonehead
08-02-2014, 01:16 AM
I like the darkness and seediness. It reminds me of my thirties.

DIS
08-02-2014, 01:27 AM
Ratings were low. Sex sells. Drama sells. Add sex and drama, ratings recover, cancel show at end of second (MAYBE third)season, do a mini series based of the original IP. Cash out, call it a wrap.

This is just my guess of what SyFy's game plan for Defiance might look like.

Escyos
08-02-2014, 01:35 AM
People don't seem to realize that its meant to show the shift in the town. E-Rep is now in control, so they show it darker then before to try to liken the E-Rep to a shadow over the town.

Don't just assume that its about ratings, you are aware that a show is usually 100% done filming and editing by the time it airs (like the whole season is done, so nothing is changed)

Tgreen
08-02-2014, 02:53 AM
Some characters are simply dark and morally depraved by our standards, but well within expectations for their history or occupation in defiance.

Datak is a criminal and embodies a culture that regards women as possessions, he also is quite desperate.
Stahma became the new Voatan kingpin in town and adopted the same ruthless behavior that male Castithans would use in her position, technically she is well within the bounds of what is expected of her ... of course there might be a small rift between the modus operandi of a Votan crime lord and normal human behavior.
Ms not-mayor-anymore lost her job, sister and prestige and went from good soul of Defiance to a drug using madam.
The E-Rep send in a drug using stalker to run the town ... and his boss is a cross dressing old man who seems to not take his midlife crisis too well.
Irisa managed to increase her crazy, even though she was damaged goods even before.
Nolan was way too cheery for the first season. The man is, from Votan perspective at least, a ruthless war criminal and butcher. Sure at some point during the war he turned things around, but before that (and this is mentioned somewhere in season one) he did defend his homeland with any means necessary and for a soldier that usually stands in direct conflict with common morals.

So no, I don't think the show has gotten too dark. The characters chosen for the show are not only living in a world that needs a certain level of survivalism attitude but they also lead lives that even would be outside of todays moral normality.
Too much sex? Maybe it's a matter of taste, but there has to be at least some sexual themes considering one of the characters runs a brothel. At least in some part it does further character development, which took quite a turn in some instances with the E-Rep coming to Defiance.

Rumeyes
08-02-2014, 03:23 AM
If sexual situations fit a story, then use them, but do it in a classy way, rather than feeling like you're jealous of Game of Thrones..

I'd have to agree, I do not mind an abundance of sex, if it fits the context. Season 2 comes off as "here, have some cheap sex so you keep watching!". Game of Thrones has a lot of sex as well but it's balanced with the action, lore, storyarc, character development and production value that are equally high, I'd say it's even unfair to compare with GoT.


People don't seem to realize that its meant to show the shift in the town.

Everybody ****ing everybody serves no purpose. I don't mind sex but like Nathan I find some scenes to be forced, hence the cheap feeling. People have sex with or without the E-rep, doesn't mean we need 3 sexscenes in each episode.

The darker tone doesnt bother me. Nolan was a arrogant ****** in season 1, it complements him being a dog in season 2. It does make it interesting he isn't the perfect goody twoshoes hero other shows have you root for.

Some other characters at times act like idiots, but hey, low production value, you need drama if you can't have setpieces.

alred
08-02-2014, 05:29 AM
I'm liking Season 2 of Defiance a lot more then I did season 1. Then again, I like dark shows. I will agree that there seems to be a lot more sex this season. What does it say for a show on basic cable that has more sex per episode then Game of Thrones or TrueBlood on HBO? I consider it a "filler", kinda like all the outdoor scenery shots in the TV show Bones. They filmed the episode, saw they were a few seconds/minutes short after editing, added some scenery/sex scenes to fill the time.

Though, I tend to think that some of the sex scenes have helped advance the plot.
For example Alec and the ***** in bed. Date and trying to get a hand from the Doc, that didn't really have anything to do with the plot. Though it may have shown something about Dateks character, something we already knew.

KeevanSixx
08-02-2014, 09:58 AM
I don't really have a problem with the sex and dark tones. What I have a problem with this season, is the lack of a sci-fi wild west feel.

It's a post apocalyptic spaghetti western with aliens, instead of a sci-fi western romp. They tease with the sci-fi, but seem to be more focused on the dramas, the social commentary, and whom is bumping whom, instead of focusing on the improbable possibility of co-existing with an alien civilization.

Instead, we get gangsters, drug dealers, prostitutes, coppers, corrupt governments, and shady characters. Even though they may be of another species, from another world, that fact gets lost in the human archetypes and narrative the writers impose on the characters. There is no sense of wonder, nor exploration, nor conflict that expresses a human desire to live with beings not from our world, and the challenges involved in surviving with an alien culture and peoples.

Season 1 had that to some extent. we observed bits of Casti culture, and Irathient culture, and were enthralled. we saw new technologies, and were intrigued. We saw a tarnished hero, his sidekick, and all the calamity that ensued, and were enraptured. They gave us a mystery, and we ate it up.

And then the human ideals took over the writing, and the show lost some of it's luster.

Season 2, so far, feels less like an adventure, less of a mystery, and more like a bad version of CSI: Alien Nation mixed with a knockoff of Votan Jersey Shore, with a healthy dose of the Real Wives of Votan: Casti edition, and a light sprinkling of the Dogfather. I wish for less "humanity" in my Sci-fi, and a little more "alien".

It's a good show, but it's missing the mark...it could be so much better.

Perchta
08-02-2014, 10:03 AM
Too much soap and not enough SciFi is what killed BSG. I really don't want to watch The Young and the Restless Aliens.

N3gativeCr33p
08-02-2014, 10:33 AM
Dark and seedy?

More like weird and perverse. I still think I'm traumatized by the last 5-7 minutes of last week's episode.

Milkweed
08-02-2014, 10:34 AM
I agree it's gotten dark and seedy.

But I like it.

BJWyler
08-02-2014, 11:02 AM
It's non stop cheap soap opera. Yea, some of the others, particular the new BSG was also a lot of soap too, but there has to be a mix of action, plot and story advancement or the show will lose anyone who cares about those things. The last 3 episodes of Defiance failed in all those regards...in my opinion of course.

But it had some great simulated sex and a neat scene, albeit stolen from Blade Runner, with Datak forcing his thumbs in some dude's eyes. Aaaand it was a Doctor.....Aaaaannnnd he specialized in eye parts. They say there's nothing new under the sun, but c'mon. But at least Datak had the great line "I promised the wife".

You are not alone in your opinion. Most of the character development seems to be on a down hill trend on the last few episodes (in that the characters personalities and choices are really starting to suck - except for Amanda, whose development sucked right off the bat and hasn't gotten any better).


Dark and seedy?

More like weird and perverse. I still think I'm traumatized by the last 5-7 minutes of last week's episode.

Good, so I am not the only one who was disturbed enough to have wanted to change the channel.


BTW what is Rynn's last name?

I keep thinking it's Rynn Chollo

Rynn Grisu

Mushbeeguy
08-02-2014, 01:07 PM
Too much soap and not enough SciFi is what killed BSG. I really don't want to watch The Young and the Restless Aliens.

At least in BSG we learned that Bob Dylan's writing existed before mankind on Earth. :)

Olipyr
08-02-2014, 01:29 PM
I'm enjoying the darker side. Makes it feel much more post-apocalyptic.

I like that it's taking on a few more twists and turns. Thursday's episode was, in my opinion, one of the best this season.

Then again, I tend to enjoy violence and sex.

Bonehead
08-02-2014, 01:31 PM
Hoo boy that song at the end though...

Olipyr
08-02-2014, 01:33 PM
Hoo boy that song at the end though...

Yeah....

That was cringe-worthy.

If any of the writers are reading, don't do that again. Please.

Smiit
08-02-2014, 01:35 PM
It certianly has gotten darker but kevin murphy has stated this was intentional to show a more personal side of characters. There IS way too mucb sex though. A couple scenes for the trailers are fine but every episode now and they get more and more sexual. Like wtf is this softcore fandom **** or something lol

DIS
08-02-2014, 02:13 PM
People don't seem to realize that its meant to show the shift in the town. E-Rep is now in control, so they show it darker then before to try to liken the E-Rep to a shadow over the town.

Don't just assume that its about ratings, you are aware that a show is usually 100% done filming and editing by the time it airs (like the whole season is done, so nothing is changed)

I was referring to the drop in ratings in the second half of last season being the reason for the more dramatic and sexual tone of this season. I am well aware of how the filming process works. Thanks for assuming I am a moron and responding as such. I appreciate it.

That last line was pure sarcasm in case you missed it. I wouldn't want you to misunderstand me yet again.

N3gativeCr33p
08-02-2014, 02:54 PM
Hoo boy that song at the end though...

It kind of reminded me of this...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_DVS_303kQ

Bonehead
08-02-2014, 02:59 PM
Reminds me more of this one...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU-9xd9OP-I

BJWyler
08-02-2014, 03:01 PM
Reminds me more of this one...

Ah yes, but who can forget this blast from the past:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRrm59Z_0w4

Chocolatelover67
08-02-2014, 09:52 PM
Ah yes, but who can forget this blast from the past:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRrm59Z_0w4


Begone evil spawn ..........Begone

Chocolatelover67
08-02-2014, 09:54 PM
It certianly has gotten darker but kevin murphy has stated this was intentional to show a more personal side of characters. There IS way too mucb sex though. A couple scenes for the trailers are fine but every episode now and they get more and more sexual. Like wtf is this softcore fandom **** or something lol


It's almost as of someone let loose the fans and they just wrote the first fanfic they received into the episodes..... This is often how a lot of fanfics go.. :(

Will we get more sex in the game? We never had sex in the game, so why can't we have sex :D lol