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View Full Version : Trion: People Have Stopped Buying From Store Because ? And You Need To Listen !



Ozz
08-05-2014, 10:37 PM
You say that your data records say this and that about the decline in sales. What your data can't tell you is why people have stopped. I have started this for people to post their reasons why. The information following this post might fill in the missing links that your data records cannot give you. I hope that by this post, it will help you better understand what you really need to do to make your customers happy while you on the other hand improve your sales which will afford you better services and more staff to cater for the myriad of incoming unanswered tickets.

I hope others inform you exactly how it is for them and their reasons why they have stopped buying from your store, also their reasons why they might have left the game completely.

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On this post of mine I made some suggestions.
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?169934-TRION-Please-Don-t-Limit-Our-Weapon-Rarity-Upgrades-!!!

This Was My Original Post Prior to Silicon Valley

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I have spent a lot of time collecting potentially good weapons for upgrading their rarity, and now due to this new change coming, I don't have enough time to upgrade all the ones I want or the money to buy game bits for arkforge. I'm really mad about this because now they will all be trashed.

A similar thing happened last year when you changed the rolls on weapons, which devalued all my legendary weapons, which were all later scrapped. What a waste of time that was and you didn't offer any compensation to all your supporters then either.

In a recent post, you said that this change would not happen for a few weeks. That was bad enough, but I understand that you will be doing this on Tuesday. This is not fair to us people who support you ! You should at least give us all about one month to finish upgrading the rarity of these weapons as we planned to do. This way, the people who have payed money will not be so upset at this change.

Another option you could offer to all your paying customers, is a one off lump sum of Arkforge to at least finish their favorite weapons or shields, if you intend to go ahead with this on Tuesday.

Many people have at least 10 favorite weapons they would like to upgrade the rarity on. Since this change is going to cost us losses again (I have 100's), I think it is only fair that you compensate us for this. I'm talking about a generous amount of arkforge, like 20,000.

Every time I look in my inventory at all the weapons n shields i have saved to upgrade, I just get so upset at what you are going to do. I cannot achieve what I want to do in the time span we have left.

Seriously, I am really mad at this change you are going to do. This is not the only way that you can up your sales in the store. I ask you to reconsider this action before you go ahead with it. Be fair to all those who support you and keep you in business. :mad::mad::mad:

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This Was My Reply To:

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RE: taco man 67:

Let me inform and remind you of this:
I commenced this game early May 2013, after about 3 months I began to buy/trade/sell weapons/shields/nades/mods. This continued up to the time of the introduction of remastering weapons. I had become well known in the game as a trader and many sort after me for a particular item. In these early times, item value was extremely high if it was hard to come by. The in-game price of an item was never considered and the market value was governed by PVP'ers willing to pay large amounts of scrip (Scrip was hard to come by in those days) seeking the best of everything.

During these early days, I had over 200 Legendary items, which included weapons, shields, nades. Legendary's were very hard to come by then and most people only had about 10 legendary's, if that.

When Trion introduced the new rolls on weapons, it devalued all legendary weapons to the point that people scrapped what they had. Many people requested that Trion make it so that their existing legendary weapons could be re-rolled to have the new rolls on them. This never happened. Trion also, never compensated anyone for their losses due to THEIR change to the game. Many people were very upset about this and some left this game for good.

However, I did agree that the new rolled weapons were much better than the previous types, which was the same thought that most others had as well. Legendary's became less rare than they were previously. This was a new and better season for all. Trading was at it's peek, people traded a number of legendary items just to have one awesome legendary item. The mod market was also in full swing. In these times, there were many traders. People soon became aware of who had the good stuff and who didn't.

Memory Lane: Since "Clubside" from the clan "Children of Galifrey" opened his website "Hulker's Cafe" and began to sell items at game item prices, many followed his standard. This was the beginning of item devaluation, which affected trading right across the board. People no longer wanted to pay high end prices for rare items etc, without having a grumble about it. There were only a handful of PVPers who would. This is when the in-game market began to die.

At the introduction of the "Epic Mod Hordes", the majority of people no longer wanted blue T3 mods, which also killed this market. People payed less attention to the zone chat ads (Which myself and others placed) and focussed more on grinding to gain keys and scrip to purchase "Epic Mod Hordes". The only thing that caught their attention then, was if someone was selling these mods, especially if they were rare.

Therefore, for a short time, "Epic Mods" became the most sort after item in the game, while at the same time, it was still hard to gain scrip. During this time, epic mods sold up to 250k each from a range of different traders, depending on its high demand and rarity. For example: Cannoneer Synergy SMG epic mods.

Around this time, Trion slightly increased the amount of scrip, which could be looted from the ground and in events, including keys. Everyone prospered, affording themselves "Epic Mod Hordes" and singular mods they needed to complete their favorite weapons. It was another season of prosperity for traders, people were happy with their weapons fully modded, better kill rates and high scores. As the months went by this epic mod market died as more and more people could afford to buy and complete their weapons.

By the time the remastering of weapons was introduced, trading had slowed considerably. Legendary's, Keys and Scrip, dropped more often than in the past, due to many people complaining.

Once Ego Rating and Rarity upgrades were introduced to the game, the trade market in-game was dead. We all now had the chance to save that potentially good blue/purple weapon and turn it into something awesome, which rarely ever dropped from any Locked Boxes in the past.

While this closed the door on in-game trading, it opened the door to the chase of gaining Arkforge from the many different major events. The higher the score, the more arkforge that you earned. The game came to a place where we could achieve the best results from collecting and building our favorite weapons.

Although Ego Rating and Rarity upgrades killed the in-game market, it has brought a lot of satisfaction to many players and added a lot more fun to the game in the chase for arkforge.

In conclusion, I like the Ego Rating and Rarity upgrades and the chase for Arkforge. I personally think this should not change. If anything should change, these things are what I think Trion should consider:
We all have loose change in our pockets.
How much loose change would we have on average.
Determine the average.
By that average, set the store prices to that average.
Make Arkforge affordable even to a poor person.
Make a singular Legendary Weapon awesome and affordable to that average.
Be generous in selling an item by making it tempting to buy based on that average.
Consider how fast "Word of Mouth" travels when a good deal is bought.
Make all the Locked Boxes in Store drop awesome stuff.
Consider: A shop may have many expensive items, but if it also sells chocolates and lollies, it will sell more of them in quantity than that of the expensive items, because the price is within the average of loose change in their pockets.
If 1000 more people came to the store because of "Word of Mouth", already they are open to be tempted to a good deal. That's better than none coming at all.
Loose change is quickly spent oftentimes without a second thought.
Consider: $1.00 - $5.00 awesome buys, and your storehouse will be filled with the potential of them splashing out further.


This in my opinion is one of many ways that could be implemented to avoid the coming limitations to upgrading weapon rarity while making Trion money.

Trion, if you continue on your current path of changing things on Tuesday
("IN A FEW WEEKS" as you originally said), then it is more than fair that YOU compensate all your paying customers for their losses. This is in regard to all the potentially good green and blue weapons we have set aside for rarity upgrade, which will be scrapped due to the short time span you have given us to complete them.

In saying that, a one off compensation of 20,000 Arkforge prior to this change to complete our most favorite weapons/shields.

Otherwise, give us fair notice of "One Month" to achieve what we can before this change is implemented.

Chump Norris
08-05-2014, 11:18 PM
This is how I think it went and a prediction.

1. They lost real money buyers with the pre patch vs post patch weapon thing.

2. They gained real money buyers when boxes were dropping forge at a decent rate.

3. They lost real money box buyers when they nerfed forge drop rates to ****.

4. They will lose more real money buyers with encryption because most items you get unable to upgrade.

SymbolicGamer
08-06-2014, 12:26 AM
The one rarity upgrade is fine. I actually like that change.

People don't buy lockboxes because they're overpriced.

Here's what I'd like to see:

Basic Lockbox (Replaces Tier 2)
- 10 keycodes and 1000 scrip or 20 bits ($0.25)
Contains 2 random items of uncommon rarity or better.

Advanced Lockbox (Replaces Tier 3)
- 25 Keycodes and 5,000 scrip or 40 bits ($0.50)
Contains 3 random items of uncommon rarity or better. Guaranteed to contain at least one rare item.

Elite Lockbox (Replaces Tier 4)
- 50 keycodes and 10,000 scrip or 80 bits ($1.00)
Contains 4 random items of rare rarity or better. Guaranteed to contain at least one epic item.

Event Lockboxes (Limited Time, Like Corporate Espionage and Extra Life)
- 75 keycodes and 50,000 scrip or 400 bits ($5.00)
Contains 5 random Event items of epic rarity or better. May contain an Event outfit.

Ark Salvage to Keycodes
1,000 Ark Salvage (no scrip) = 1 Keycode

ateballing
08-06-2014, 01:14 AM
2000 AF = $10..........
That's what it should cost

aCeCookie
08-06-2014, 01:41 AM
This is how I think it went and a prediction.

1. They lost real money buyers with the pre patch vs post patch weapon thing.

2. They gained real money buyers when boxes were dropping forge at a decent rate.

3. They lost real money box buyers when they nerfed forge drop rates to ****.

4. They will lose more real money buyers with encryption because most items you get unable to upgrade.
And they believe by increasing KC prices they'll gain more buyers for instore LBs.

Quatermass
08-06-2014, 01:42 AM
The only things I've bought from the store are convenient items like more storage and slots and DLC.
The boxes are a joke and I know 'cos I've had this game since the beginning.
From all the boxes I've bought during that time I've got 2 orange, both of them useless rpg's.
I've gotten 2 shield and one gun worth keeping from the lock boxes the rest is all salvage.
Every time I buy a lock box I get spanners and launchers, 99.9% of the time that is what I get.
So I realized pretty soon that the boxes are totally useless so paying real money for them is just stupid.

Now I just go and buy a box when the keycodes are maxed out so that I can salvage some spanners and RPG's, oh yeah cankers are beginning to replace the spanners lately.

The only orange enemy drop I've got was a useless shotgun.

I'd buy a vehicle if they implemented mouse streering. There is no use to only have keyboard steering on a car and mouse look if the vehicle dosen't have a turret.

Chlotes.. well I have them so why buy them? I hate changing chlotes on the character because you have to do this on every loadout you have. I had the default Survivalist outfit untill I reached 1000 EGO and then I changed just to celebrate :p

Boosts I could buy if they stopped counting down when you log out. With all the craches and server jitters it feel really wasteful to buy those things.

But I'd be willing to pay 50€ for the abillity to have a three wapon loadout so that you could carry a Pistol a SMG and a Sniper at the same time.....

Yeah paying money for a game I've allready paid for is not why I buy games. But as I said that Three Wapon Loadout would be nice though....

king ofwieners
08-06-2014, 02:01 AM
this is what you call a money hungry patch

ColonelJack
08-06-2014, 02:05 AM
50 Euro for a third weapon, you are deadly serious about that third weapon :)

I just generally have to say I believe Trion may've hit a bit of a glass ceiling in regards to how many people are willing to pay cash for lockboxes, it's just something I would never ever do.

I also believe Trion has locked up their Bits cash currency and that is very counter-intuitive for them, the only way to obtain it is direct cash. They should spread the Bits around a bit to entice, and especially they should add Bits to the subscription at a premium price/amount. Some of us are more ok with paying for a service than paying for an imaginary item. If you sell subscriptions adequately then the cash shop served its purpose for those people, and the people trying to be pure f2p players can choose to make small Bit purchases to suit their play style - this is one of the things Trion is missing from the f2p model, they're not appealing enough to subscribers, people who are hung up on paying for a service over paying for an imaginary hat... people like myself.

Good luck with those locked up Bits!
Or, you know, spread them around a bit, tiny giveaways, fat subscription stipends, see what that does for your bottom line.

WASDsensei
08-06-2014, 02:05 AM
Self defeating... One of the biggest boons for the DLC, was that 1000 Arkforge.

Which is now all but worthless, as all the weapons are encrypted.

Good thing I knew this was coming, and upgraded everything I had to Purple with that 1000 Arkforge. If I'd not gotten a heads up, I'd be pissed as hell.

Encryption kills one of the biggest bonuses in the DLC. Further, it discourages buying LockBoxes, as even Tier 4 can toss the now worthless blues at you. Before they were worth it, as you could upgrade them eventually. But now I dont even pick em up.

Trion do u even care
08-06-2014, 02:06 AM
I agree !!!! Lets start petition !! For this that Trion Chang this.!!

ThePervertOne
08-06-2014, 02:07 AM
because it's too expensive and not worth it

ColonelJack
08-06-2014, 02:09 AM
Self defeating... One of the biggest boons for the DLC, was that 1000 Arkforge.

Which is now all but worthless, as all the weapons are encrypted.

Good thing I knew this was coming, and upgraded everything I had to Purple with that 1000 Arkforge. If I'd not gotten a heads up, I'd be pissed as hell.

Encryption kills one of the biggest bonuses in the DLC. Further, it discourages buying LockBoxes, as even Tier 4 can toss the now worthless blues at you. Before they were worth it, as you could upgrade them eventually. But now I dont even pick em up.

Eh, so happy I'm not an endgame kinda guy, and will probably stop playing this once me and my friend run through the missions and pursuits... because it sounds terrible, Firefall did the same thing, actually Red5(Firefall) ruined one of the coolest resource/crafting systems I'd seen for the sake of trying to roll in better monetization.

I hope they listen to you guys about this, so it will be fixed by the time I make it near endgame.

SymbolicGamer
08-06-2014, 02:17 AM
The encryption is fine. Remember when you couldn't upgrade weapons at all? Being able to upgrade any gun to orange took away the loot hunt from anything that wasn't a Gunslinger weapon. Focus on the crazy lockbox prices. That's what needs to be adjusted.

Quatermass
08-06-2014, 02:51 AM
Yeah those where the days when 90% of all drops where whites that you couldn't upgrade or increase power on :p
What I can't understand is why they increase the price on boxes when the boxes have been worthless since day one of the BETA?
Had they increased the chanse of getting higher tier weapons or even so that you had lets say a pistol box, SMG box etc. where you where guaranteed to get atleast one weapon that you wanted then yeasbut now....

I've played for over a year and I have never been above 120,000 scrips...
And pay real money to get green spanners and rpg's is just stupid.

So what do we have? We have white useless drops and boxes that gives you next to nothing usefull and they expect people to pay real money for that?!
Who's idéa was this?
Probably someone who is related to someone high up in TRION because this marketing idéa cannot have come from someone that is educated or have experience in these things....

ejester
08-06-2014, 03:40 AM
Ya just set your mass salvage to everything blue and below because unless it's purple or orange - it's 100% worthless now.

GG on negating the vast majority of drops in your game in a single patch!

ColonelJack
08-06-2014, 04:09 AM
Ya just set your mass salvage to everything blue and below because unless it's purple or orange - it's 100% worthless now.

GG on negating the vast majority of drops in your game in a single patch!

I have never seen an orange item, and i've played a decent amount of time... heh

alred
08-06-2014, 04:23 AM
IMO, if Trion wants people to spend money, and keep spending money then they need to put stuff in the cash store players will continually purchase.

1]Outfits. One time purchase, so they'd have to keep adding outfits.
2]*suggestion* 1 once dye kit for out fit/vehicles. Put this in and allow players to change their outfit color/vehicles paint job. By making it one once only, you'll have return purchases. But it should be priced "fairly". For example 10 to 20 bits.
3]Vehicles. Again limited purchasing.
4]Hover cycles. Limited purchasing, but I'm sure they'd sale for the first day or two that they were in the store. I've seen a lot of requests for motorcycles, so why not a hover cycle?
5]Pets. Yes they are annoying and add to server load. But I'm sure there is a market for a pet or two.

Etc, etc, etc.

stefb42
08-06-2014, 05:14 AM
I've dropped some cash into other p2w games but there's a big difference in the model those games use

If I spend like £2-£10 on in game currency, they give me a sack load, enough to last a few days at least, so once I buy it I feel like I'm rich in game and start spending it like there's no tomorrow, because they give me so much I don't need to be to cautious spending it,

You however are looking for me to drop £10 to £20 of my cash on a single item, or enough in game currency to perform a single action, sorry but I'm not interested, it's too much money for so little

Telemachus
08-06-2014, 05:27 AM
The one rarity upgrade is fine. I actually like that change.

People don't buy lockboxes because they're overpriced.

Here's what I'd like to see:

Basic Lockbox (Replaces Tier 2)
- 10 keycodes and 1000 scrip or 20 bits ($0.25)
Contains 2 random items of uncommon rarity or better.

Advanced Lockbox (Replaces Tier 3)
- 25 Keycodes and 5,000 scrip or 40 bits ($0.50)
Contains 3 random items of uncommon rarity or better. Guaranteed to contain at least one rare item.

Elite Lockbox (Replaces Tier 4)
- 50 keycodes and 10,000 scrip or 80 bits ($1.00)
Contains 4 random items of rare rarity or better. Guaranteed to contain at least one epic item.

Event Lockboxes (Limited Time, Like Corporate Espionage and Extra Life)
- 75 keycodes and 50,000 scrip or 400 bits ($5.00)
Contains 5 random Event items of epic rarity or better. May contain an Event outfit.

Ark Salvage to Keycodes
1,000 Ark Salvage (no scrip) = 1 Keycode



1000 ark salvage to 1 arkforge , would be nice also, even 10k to 1 would be decent.


Still wouldn't be able to upgrade the few pre patch weapons I still have though. Salvaged most...again after another major change, less reason to buy more inventory spaces ...err.. thanks I guess.


The whole 2/3 of your ego level free leveling of weapons was ok, but 100% was required. Some have been playing since the first day and have 100's of weapons that became trash again .

Telemachus
08-06-2014, 05:29 AM
I have never seen an orange item, and i've played a decent amount of time... heh



ha, a furling in your pic.

crazyged
08-06-2014, 05:30 AM
Orange is the new green...

BJWyler
08-06-2014, 05:46 AM
This is how I think it went and a prediction.

1. They lost real money buyers with the pre patch vs post patch weapon thing.

2. They gained real money buyers when boxes were dropping forge at a decent rate.

3. They lost real money box buyers when they nerfed forge drop rates to ****.

4. They will lose more real money buyers with encryption because most items you get unable to upgrade.

Indeed. Completely amazing that they equated the drop in lockbox purchases with the ability to upgrade weapon rarities without limit, and never once mentioned the ArkForge nerf to the boxes.

Covington
08-06-2014, 05:50 AM
And soon we will be reduced to using screwdrivers. :p


Orange is the new green...

https://41.media.tumblr.com/053656d5501c92fd3a4f31d925f6b1d9/tumblr_mxjtbalmzM1smwudeo2_r1_500.jpg

N3gativeCr33p
08-06-2014, 06:55 AM
I hope others inform you exactly how it is for them and their reasons why they have stopped buying from your store, also their reasons why they might have left the game completely.

1. The prices are too steep.
2. The RNG is too jacked up.
3. The prices are too steep.
4. The RNG is too jacked up.
5. See reason #1.
6. See reason #2.
Etc.
Etc.

Perchta
08-06-2014, 07:08 AM
I think Trion is missing the idea of how to entice people to spend real money. Players have to see benefit for spending their real dollars not spend their real dollars on a crap shoot like lockboxes are. You can't herd players to spend in your cash shop like you would cattle to slaughter which seems to be what Trion is attempting to do.

I'm a new player, EGO around 3k, I've spent about $100 buying the DLC Bundle and Hunter Pack and had intended to spend more. With these changes I will not spend another penny in the cash shop.

Ozz
08-06-2014, 08:51 AM
Bump ,,,,,,,,,,,

Drewbud
08-06-2014, 08:55 AM
Bump ,,,,,,,,,,,

I'm gona miss Ozz

BJWyler
08-06-2014, 09:22 AM
1. The prices are too steep.
2. The RNG is too jacked up.
3. The prices are too steep.
4. The RNG is too jacked up.
5. See reason #1.
6. See reason #2.
Etc.
Etc.

You know, I never once purchased a lockbox with Bits; only with in game resources once I maxed out my keycodes. Never saw the need to buy them otherwise. I don't think there has ever been one weapon I have ever gotten from a lockbox that I didn't vendor immediately except for the OJs - none of which I have ever used and are still sitting on a mule account.

Now, I don't think I am even going to worry about maxing out keycodes. I'm not wasting any more resources on lockboxes for the remainder of the time I decide to play the game.

Coyote Clive
08-06-2014, 10:11 AM
I am out unless they change the arkforge and key drop rates back. I logged in and once i discovered the new AF and key code drop rates all arkfalls and warmasters ceased to have any interest to me. I used to earn 20-45 AF at some of those. Trion just punished me and the others for being good at the game.

I'd have far more respect for Trion if they left it like it was and had annoying donation drives and raffle tickets for stuff in the bit store.

We should form a players union and go one strike. Serious. Get all who will help together and leave till they change it back. If they give us back our drop rates we reward them by buying a lot of bits. They don't and we don't spend a dime. I went from $20-$50 a month to Zero after DLC5 dropped. I actually quit for 2 months till my friends talked me back in. This new rip off hit right as I was contemplating opening the wallet for Trion on a trial basis again. But this seals the deal. If it stays like this no more $$$ from me.

Ozz
08-06-2014, 10:30 AM
TRION: You are already losing people. You must, please and satisfy your customers or this game is dead. This is also why clans come and go, because people leave and have lost faith in you. Personally, I think you should STOP doing what you think and listen to the people who support you or this game is down the gurgler.

WASDsensei
08-06-2014, 02:03 PM
Not that your voices aren't going to fall on deaf ears, but I'd also suggest trying to make yourself heard here, at "the official" suggestion box:
http://www.google.com/moderator/#15/e=210af6&t=210af6.41&v=24

The main thing Trion has to realize is how this discourages purchasing of lockboxes via cash (and more so, ArkForge), rather than encourages it.

They are trying to remove their older, long time players, and bring new ones in, as they figure that the older players have spent all the money they ever will. So don't brag about being a vet, or what not. Any argument against the Encryption or LockBox prices, has to be done from the perspective of new incoming players.

Encryption:
• Makes white, green, and blue items worthless
• Makes Tier 1, 2, and 3 lock boxes worthless
• Makes Tier 4 lock boxes worth a lot less, as they can still dish out blues, which can never be made OJ.
• Makes ArkForge purchases a lot less valuable.

Frankly, even if I could buy Tier 1-3 for free, I wouldn't bother. In the time spent clicking on them, clearing my inventory and claimables, and reselling the resulting "never can be upgraded to OJ" and thus worthless items, I could have nearly made the same amount of cash running an Incursion, and actually had fun.

Tier 4 at least *might* give you a Purple or OJ, but it's more likely to give you blues, which are now worthless. Thus even the Tier 4 lockboxes are a lot less appealing than they once were.

InIt2WinIt
08-06-2014, 02:46 PM
I will not buy any more because, even as a new player, I feel disrespected and devalued as a customer.

Equating the effort put into a game for its rewards to working a job for the reward of a paycheck, I would quit working for an employer that drops my pay while expecting more work output, which I have done before.

Overtkill21
08-06-2014, 02:53 PM
Not that your voices aren't going to fall on deaf ears, but I'd also suggest trying to make yourself heard here, at "the official" suggestion box:
http://www.google.com/moderator/#15/e=210af6&t=210af6.41&v=24

Oh man I haven't seen that thing in ages and ages. They attempted to use this a very long time ago but I do not believe it is monitored any more.

As far as I am aware any suggestions placed on that thing are 100% completely ignored as opposed to here on the forum where only 99.9999999% are completely ignored.

Arsenic_Touch
08-06-2014, 03:39 PM
Oh man I haven't seen that thing in ages and ages. They attempted to use this a very long time ago but I do not believe it is monitored any more.

As far as I am aware any suggestions placed on that thing are 100% completely ignored as opposed to here on the forum where only 99.9999999% are completely ignored.

It was lip service, nothing more. It kept people quiet for a while and was ignored just as quick.

Overtkill21
08-06-2014, 03:42 PM
It was lip service, nothing more. It kept people quiet for a while and was ignored just as quick.

It lasted like 4 days I think. LOL

Suggestions and this game - what a joke.

Holy Bahamut3
08-06-2014, 03:46 PM
Hey Arsenic, long time no see.

Arsenic_Touch
08-06-2014, 03:47 PM
Hey Arsenic, long time no see.

Indeed. I play ESO now and Firefall takes care of my third person mmorpg shooter urges. Had some guild members tell me on teamspeak about the laughable updates. Came on to see a few shills and lots of things to laugh about.

Cavadus
08-06-2014, 03:53 PM
Indeed. I play ESO now and Firefall takes care of my third person mmorpg shooter urges. Had some guild members tell me on teamspeak about the laughable updates. Came on to see a few shills and lots of things to laugh about.

How is Firefall these days? Played alpha/beta now and again but haven't been in over a year. Heard a lot of positive things about it on Massively.com.

Holy Bahamut3
08-06-2014, 03:54 PM
Sounds like fun, more than I can say for this game.

Bonehead
08-06-2014, 03:59 PM
How is Firefall these days? Played alpha/beta now and again but haven't been in over a year. Heard a lot of positive things about it on Massively.com.

I dropped some cash on it when I was playing beta but the lack of story put me off. Grind resources, craft, weapon wears out, grind...
Pretty but not my cup of tea back then.
I love the story part of games.

Eugenitor
08-06-2014, 04:00 PM
Firefall is still worse, but damn if Trion isn't trying to get this game down to that level.

Arsenic_Touch
08-06-2014, 04:13 PM
edit: removed post due to some laughable things that are happening.

Cavadus
08-06-2014, 04:31 PM
Dang, guess I'll be downloading Firefall tonight...

Arglemesh
08-06-2014, 05:00 PM
I have 3 main beefs:

1. While upgrading the EGO level of weapons, it costs an increasing amount of arkforge for a decreasing amount of upgrade. I liked to have upgraded some favorite weapons, but a 15-20 damage upgrade to a sniper rifle or SAW is ridiculous for the arkforge spent.

2. Weapon damage in vendors and drops are crap. Most stuff in vendors and drops do far worse than weapons I obtained 500 EGO levels ago. WTF?

3. The biggest complaint is the stupid killer lag that happens almost every incursion, swarm, synthesizer, and arkfall. This has happened repeatedly and often to all of our clan members. I have seen others in the game suffer from it too. It involves the NPCs stop responding, no interactions with items work, you can't switch weapons, summon your vehicle, and your main map ends up blank. If you are lucky, the server will dump you in less then 5 minutes. Most of the time, you have to exit and restart the game or stay in limbo forever. Yep, your score is set to zero. So what if you get a meager payout at disconnect (when that even works). It is nothing compared to the loss of top 5 score loot, experience and waste of over a half hour of time. This repeated screwing at major events is what makes the game not worth playing. Sure we submit tickets on the web site and tons of in game bug reports for the EXACT SAME PROBLEM THAT YOU CAN'T SEEM TO FIX FOR MONTHS!!!! This is why people stop playing. I will never buy another Trion game until you devs can prove to me that you can fix this one. Why should I trust other Trion products?

430005
08-07-2014, 12:36 AM
I will not buy any more because, even as a new player, I feel disrespected and devalued as a customer.

You need to ask yourself, what can you, as a customer can do for the company?

Put yourself into the company's position.

Ozz
08-07-2014, 04:33 AM
The Game in principle, was better before this patch. What you have done to the weapons is horrible, because everyone wants the joy of making the weapon of their dreams.

Not Happy:


It abolished all possibilities of upgrading my first in-game weapons, including the 2 complimentary weapons which came from owning the "Deluxe Edition" or "Season Pass". I ran out of time as I had numerous weapons to upgrade.

Reduced Scrip Loot.

Reduced Key Rewards.

Reduced Arkforge Rewards.

Reduced Weapon Loot.

Lowered Quality of Loot.

Lowered Quantity of Loot.

The chat needed a "One Off Use Quick Menu Button" right where the chat is, to send people to the setup page. After setting it up then it disappears from the chat area. When I first logged on, nothing worked in the chat. This created frustration and my this thoughts were: "Oh great, it's bugged and I can't communicate to my clan". The Time Stamp is good and was well overdue. People want all the "Emotes" back. The first thing I want to see when I log on, is a chat which is ready to go and easy to use to communicate to my clan and whoever else I choose.

This game is like those old movies, long and dragged out. It never gets to the point where it is finished and holds our attention long enough, without encountering problems and disappointment. Then it is changed again and dragged out further causing us to lose interest.

I have never encountered a game with so many problems as this one and the main problem besides lag, is it seems to play the same tune, "You don't listen to what we want". That's what I keep hearing in-game and reading in the forums.

You obviously need more staff to cater for the deluge of unanswered tickets, which are returned to us with a copy and paste message stating: We apologize for the delay etc, if you still want assistance, please reply "I still need assistance". After saying that, the last thing you would expect, is another one stating the same thing. But you know what REALLY puts the icing on the cake about a matter of mine ? The 3rd reply was a similar message relating to ArcheAge >>>> stating, if you still want assistance, please reply "I still need assistance". OMG, are you serious ? That really tells me something is wrong here. Don't you think ? Did you even bother to read my ticket ? I wonder what other people think, hmm ? We are not robots and do appreciate a more personal empathetic response than this.

I don't like the "Like it or Lump it" attitude of Trion.


I am a paying customer who bought your product, expecting it to run smoothly as every other game I have played. When your product does not meet the expectations of a customer, they have every right to complain about it and the services you provide.

I read a post which said "Stop complaining, you get the game for free". Tho a person plays this game without purchasing anything, every choice has some sort of cost, which may impact on our finances and/or emotional state etc.

The one thing the non paying person (customer) has in common with a paying customer, is the emotional stress, frustration and disappointment we all have with this game, which is expected to run smoothly. This does not exclude the joy and satisfaction we all share.

There is a stand of expectations, which we all have regarding anything we apply ourselves to. What you have done is ROBBED US of the joy and satisfaction of playing it. People play games to chill-out, unwind and relax. A good game should first help elevate ones daily woes. They don't wan't to come home from a long hard day at work and be further stressed, as this game so often does. The negative emotional impact on us all, out weighs the positive satisfaction and joy we should all be experiencing, while playing this game DEFIANCE.

Trion, how can you give us something, which was better before (Not talking about disconnections & lag), then take it away and expect us to be happy with you. I can't imagine too many are happy with you or ever were. Are you doing this to gather more data for your records just to see our response ?

Holy Bahamut3
08-07-2014, 05:14 AM
. There is a stand of expectations, which we all have regarding anything we apply ourselves to. What you have done is ROBBED US of the joy and satisfaction of playing it. People play games to chill-out, unwind and relax. A good game should first help elevate ones daily woes. They don't wan't to come home from a long hard day at work and be further stressed, as this game so often does. The negative emotional impact on us all, out weighs the positive satisfaction and joy we should all be experiencing, while playing this game DEFIANCE.

Nailed it. I do indeed (or did I should say) play to unwind. You stole that from me Dev team. Little by little, step by step, you turned a stress reliever into a stress inducer. Now I do my dailys (out of a misguided sense of obligation to my wallet having spent money on your worthless season pass) and then play Minecraft. Yes Minecrafts sense of reward and accomplishment is greater than YOUR TPSMMO.

duction
08-07-2014, 05:17 AM
They know they have upset us all, and this is why the threads have not been locked and deleted. They are letting us blow off steam and hope we will accept it.

drackiller
08-07-2014, 05:19 AM
They know they have upset us all, and this is why the threads have not been locked and deleted. They are letting us blow off steam and hope we will accept it.

LOL, we are not accepting this shtako, we are just moving on.

Amack
08-07-2014, 05:24 AM
Tinfoil hat time!

Since they knew there would be an outcry to any event arkforge nerf, they lowered it into the ground, so when they raise it back up to where they actually want it then we will calm down.

Ozz
08-07-2014, 05:56 AM
People have had enough of your mind games TRION. In one day because of what you have done, I have lost 2 of my highly regarded members. Not because they don't like me or my clan. I have done my utmost to hold together My Warriors and persuade them if necessary to "Not Give Up". When a matter like this occurs from your hand, it makes me boil. I wonder how many other clans are experiencing the exodus of valued members.

Clan Founders, Leaders, and Officers work together to sustain a population within this game, which in turn earns you money and reputation on a global scale. When my Clan hurts, so do I. It affects not only us, but everyone. I have seen many very large clans having great ambition shrivel and die at your hand. The Volge and all the rest of them are not our enemy, YOU ARE !!!

You are destroying your own house TRION. And with that I say this: We customers (Paying/Non Paying) are a part of this house you have built. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

Metaphorically speaking: What I see is this ! You have been given a Rolls Royce (Defiance), which has so much potential and ability to satisfy every need and then you are told to drive it to a certain destination beyond the horizon and out of sight. The only problem I see here is, whoever gave you this Rolls Royce, didn't realize that a toddler cannot drive, let alone know which way to go !!!

You are in a state of "Critical Mass", damned if you do and damned if you don't. Your game will be worth nothing if you still refuse to listen and don't do what works for us as players. Without people, the money dissipates.

Hope differed, makes the heart grow numb !

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Another Previous Post

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

The Game in principle, was better before this patch. What you have done to the weapons is horrible, because everyone wants the joy of making the weapon of their dreams.

Not Happy:


It abolished all possibilities of upgrading my first in-game weapons, including the 2 complimentary weapons which came from owning the "Deluxe Edition" or "Season Pass". I ran out of time as I had numerous weapons to upgrade.

Reduced Scrip Loot.

Reduced Key Rewards.

Reduced Arkforge Rewards.

Reduced Weapon Loot.

Lowered Quality of Loot.

Lowered Quantity of Loot.

The chat needed a "One Off Use Quick Menu Button" right where the chat is, to send people to the setup page. After setting it up then it disappears from the chat area. When I first logged on, nothing worked in the chat. This created frustration and my this thoughts were: "Oh great, it's bugged and I can't communicate to my clan". The Time Stamp is good and was well overdue. People want all the "Emotes" back. The first thing I want to see when I log on, is a chat which is ready to go and easy to use to communicate to my clan and whoever else I choose.

This game is like those old movies, long and dragged out. It never gets to the point where it is finished and holds our attention long enough, without encountering problems and disappointment. Then it is changed again and dragged out further causing us to lose interest.

I have never encountered a game with so many problems as this one and the main problem besides lag, is it seems to play the same tune, "You don't listen to what we want". That's what I keep hearing in-game and reading in the forums.

You obviously need more staff to cater for the deluge of unanswered tickets, which are returned to us with a copy and paste message stating: We apologize for the delay etc, if you still want assistance, please reply "I still need assistance". After saying that, the last thing you would expect, is another one stating the same thing. But you know what REALLY puts the icing on the cake about a matter of mine ? The 3rd reply was a similar message relating to ArcheAge >>>> stating, if you still want assistance, please reply "I still need assistance". OMG, are you serious ? That really tells me something is wrong here. Don't you think ? Did you even bother to read my ticket ? I wonder what other people think, hmm ? We are not robots and do appreciate a more personal empathetic response than this.

I don't like the "Like it or Lump it" attitude of Trion.


I am a paying customer who bought your product, expecting it to run smoothly as every other game I have played. When your product does not meet the expectations of a customer, they have every right to complain about it and the services you provide.

I read a post which said "Stop complaining, you get the game for free". Tho a person plays this game without purchasing anything, every choice has some sort of cost, which may impact on our finances and/or emotional state etc.

The one thing the non paying person (customer) has in common with a paying customer, is the emotional stress, frustration and disappointment we all have with this game, which is expected to run smoothly. This does not exclude the joy and satisfaction we all share.

There is a stand of expectations, which we all have regarding anything we apply ourselves to. What you have done is ROBBED US of the joy and satisfaction of playing it. People play games to chill-out, unwind and relax. A good game should first help elevate ones daily woes. They don't wan't to come home from a long hard day at work and be further stressed, as this game so often does. The negative emotional impact on us all, out weighs the positive satisfaction and joy we should all be experiencing, while playing this game DEFIANCE.

Trion, how can you give us something, which was better before (Not talking about disconnections & lag), then take it away and expect us to be happy with you. I can't imagine too many are happy with you or ever were. Are you doing this to gather more data for your records just to see our response ?

Sychs
08-07-2014, 06:16 AM
Well I hope I don't kill this thread.....
I too feel jaded by this latest update.
There was a time when I enjoyed playing this game.
I still play, but not as much as I used to.

Syldain
08-07-2014, 06:39 AM
I rarely bother going to major arkfalls now. I logged in this morning to the new Silicon Valley Incursion and I was the only one there till 2 people showed up in the last few minutes. I guess that shows how popular they are.

Covington
08-07-2014, 06:44 AM
I rarely bother going to major arkfalls now. I logged in this morning to the new Silicon Valley Incursion and I was the only one there till 2 people showed up in the last few minutes. I guess that shows how popular they are.

Its not even possible on ps3 to finish anything there so I avoid them. At some point you will be booted and your score will be wiped. The only chance you have is to come in on the last second.

N3gativeCr33p
08-07-2014, 10:44 AM
Now I do my dailys (out of a misguided sense of obligation to my wallet having spent money on your worthless season pass) and then play Minecraft.

Same here, but last night I got bored before I could even start them. Where did I get bored? Silicon Valley.

On went the PS4. lol

P.S. - Those SV Evangel "events" are dreadfully boring. zzzzzzzzzz

Copperpot
08-07-2014, 10:55 AM
Same here, but last night I got bored before I could even start them. Where did I get bored? Silicon Valley.

On went the PS4. lol

P.S. - Those SV Evangel "events" are dreadfully boring. zzzzzzzzzz

I got bored with SV too! I felt like I was driving back and forth across the map for nothing. Drive up here, shoot some stuff. Drive back over here, collect some stuff. Drive back that way, squat on stuff. Wait, I just described the entire game.

430005
08-08-2014, 12:23 AM
I rarely bother going to major arkfalls now. I logged in this morning to the new Silicon Valley Incursion and I was the only one there till 2 people showed up in the last few minutes. I guess that shows how popular they are.

This. I´m not sure how that´s a good thing.

Ozz
08-08-2014, 03:30 AM
You say that your data records say this and that about the decline in sales. What your data can't tell you is why people have stopped. I have started this for people to post their reasons why. The information following this post might fill in the missing links that your data records cannot give you. I hope that by this post, it will help you better understand what you really need to do to make your customers happy while you on the other hand improve your sales which will afford you better services and more staff to cater for the myriad of incoming unanswered tickets.

I hope others inform you exactly how it is for them and their reasons why they have stopped buying from your store, also their reasons why they might have left the game completely.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

On this post of mine I made some suggestions.
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?169934-TRION-Please-Don-t-Limit-Our-Weapon-Rarity-Upgrades-!!!

This Was My Original Post Prior to Silicon Valley

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I have spent a lot of time collecting potentially good weapons for upgrading their rarity, and now due to this new change coming, I don't have enough time to upgrade all the ones I want or the money to buy game bits for arkforge. I'm really mad about this because now they will all be trashed.

A similar thing happened last year when you changed the rolls on weapons, which devalued all my legendary weapons, which were all later scrapped. What a waste of time that was and you didn't offer any compensation to all your supporters then either.

In a recent post, you said that this change would not happen for a few weeks. That was bad enough, but I understand that you will be doing this on Tuesday. This is not fair to us people who support you ! You should at least give us all about one month to finish upgrading the rarity of these weapons as we planned to do. This way, the people who have payed money will not be so upset at this change.

Another option you could offer to all your paying customers, is a one off lump sum of Arkforge to at least finish their favorite weapons or shields, if you intend to go ahead with this on Tuesday.

Many people have at least 10 favorite weapons they would like to upgrade the rarity on. Since this change is going to cost us losses again (I have 100's), I think it is only fair that you compensate us for this. I'm talking about a generous amount of arkforge, like 20,000.

Every time I look in my inventory at all the weapons n shields i have saved to upgrade, I just get so upset at what you are going to do. I cannot achieve what I want to do in the time span we have left.

Seriously, I am really mad at this change you are going to do. This is not the only way that you can up your sales in the store. I ask you to reconsider this action before you go ahead with it. Be fair to all those who support you and keep you in business. :mad::mad::mad:

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

This Was My Reply To:

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

RE: taco man 67:

Let me inform and remind you of this:
I commenced this game early May 2013, after about 3 months I began to buy/trade/sell weapons/shields/nades/mods. This continued up to the time of the introduction of remastering weapons. I had become well known in the game as a trader and many sort after me for a particular item. In these early times, item value was extremely high if it was hard to come by. The in-game price of an item was never considered and the market value was governed by PVP'ers willing to pay large amounts of scrip (Scrip was hard to come by in those days) seeking the best of everything.

During these early days, I had over 200 Legendary items, which included weapons, shields, nades. Legendary's were very hard to come by then and most people only had about 10 legendary's, if that.

When Trion introduced the new rolls on weapons, it devalued all legendary weapons to the point that people scrapped what they had. Many people requested that Trion make it so that their existing legendary weapons could be re-rolled to have the new rolls on them. This never happened. Trion also, never compensated anyone for their losses due to THEIR change to the game. Many people were very upset about this and some left this game for good.

However, I did agree that the new rolled weapons were much better than the previous types, which was the same thought that most others had as well. Legendary's became less rare than they were previously. This was a new and better season for all. Trading was at it's peek, people traded a number of legendary items just to have one awesome legendary item. The mod market was also in full swing. In these times, there were many traders. People soon became aware of who had the good stuff and who didn't.

Memory Lane: Since "Clubside" from the clan "Children of Galifrey" opened his website "Hulker's Cafe" and began to sell items at game item prices, many followed his standard. This was the beginning of item devaluation, which affected trading right across the board. People no longer wanted to pay high end prices for rare items etc, without having a grumble about it. There were only a handful of PVPers who would. This is when the in-game market began to die.

At the introduction of the "Epic Mod Hordes", the majority of people no longer wanted blue T3 mods, which also killed this market. People payed less attention to the zone chat ads (Which myself and others placed) and focussed more on grinding to gain keys and scrip to purchase "Epic Mod Hordes". The only thing that caught their attention then, was if someone was selling these mods, especially if they were rare.

Therefore, for a short time, "Epic Mods" became the most sort after item in the game, while at the same time, it was still hard to gain scrip. During this time, epic mods sold up to 250k each from a range of different traders, depending on its high demand and rarity. For example: Cannoneer Synergy SMG epic mods.

Around this time, Trion slightly increased the amount of scrip, which could be looted from the ground and in events, including keys. Everyone prospered, affording themselves "Epic Mod Hordes" and singular mods they needed to complete their favorite weapons. It was another season of prosperity for traders, people were happy with their weapons fully modded, better kill rates and high scores. As the months went by this epic mod market died as more and more people could afford to buy and complete their weapons.

By the time the remastering of weapons was introduced, trading had slowed considerably. Legendary's, Keys and Scrip, dropped more often than in the past, due to many people complaining.

Once Ego Rating and Rarity upgrades were introduced to the game, the trade market in-game was dead. We all now had the chance to save that potentially good blue/purple weapon and turn it into something awesome, which rarely ever dropped from any Locked Boxes in the past.

While this closed the door on in-game trading, it opened the door to the chase of gaining Arkforge from the many different major events. The higher the score, the more arkforge that you earned. The game came to a place where we could achieve the best results from collecting and building our favorite weapons.

Although Ego Rating and Rarity upgrades killed the in-game market, it has brought a lot of satisfaction to many players and added a lot more fun to the game in the chase for arkforge.

In conclusion, I like the Ego Rating and Rarity upgrades and the chase for Arkforge. I personally think this should not change. If anything should change, these things are what I think Trion should consider:
We all have loose change in our pockets.
How much loose change would we have on average.
Determine the average.
By that average, set the store prices to that average.
Make Arkforge affordable even to a poor person.
Make a singular Legendary Weapon awesome and affordable to that average.
Be generous in selling an item by making it tempting to buy based on that average.
Consider how fast "Word of Mouth" travels when a good deal is bought.
Make all the Locked Boxes in Store drop awesome stuff.
Consider: A shop may have many expensive items, but if it also sells chocolates and lollies, it will sell more of them in quantity than that of the expensive items, because the price is within the average of loose change in their pockets.
If 1000 more people came to the store because of "Word of Mouth", already they are open to be tempted to a good deal. That's better than none coming at all.
Loose change is quickly spent oftentimes without a second thought.
Consider: $1.00 - $5.00 awesome buys, and your storehouse will be filled with the potential of them splashing out further.


This in my opinion is one of many ways that could be implemented to avoid the coming limitations to upgrading weapon rarity while making Trion money.

Trion, if you continue on your current path of changing things on Tuesday
("IN A FEW WEEKS" as you originally said), then it is more than fair that YOU compensate all your paying customers for their losses. This is in regard to all the potentially good green and blue weapons we have set aside for rarity upgrade, which will be scrapped due to the short time span you have given us to complete them.

In saying that, a one off compensation of 20,000 Arkforge prior to this change to complete our most favorite weapons/shields.

Otherwise, give us fair notice of "One Month" to achieve what we can before this change is implemented.

430005
08-08-2014, 04:36 AM
Be fair to all those who support you and keep you in business.

I think someone at Trion is just going to laugh when he reads this. Good post, though.

melkathi
08-08-2014, 04:50 AM
I think someone at Trion is just going to laugh when he reads this. Good post, though.

Just as they are still laughing at everyone who does not have black haired characters but would like to use the latest headgear? :)

430005
08-08-2014, 09:37 AM
Just as they are still laughing at everyone who does not have black haired characters but would like to use the latest headgear? :)

Headgear? Well, most toons looks the same with the proxy memory (yes, i know you can change that bar), so for now i just suggest people should buy either DLC or inventory.

I am aware some say we should boycot Trion altogether with the shtako they keep pulling.

Thearl
08-08-2014, 10:26 AM
Did a quick glance through the store to see if there was actually anything in it I felt was cash worthy.... I really didn't see anything. A couple of the outfits might be interesting, but not at those prices. Inventory slots used to be important before Ego scaling, now most guns from your early ego life that you were holding onto aren't worth upgrading and become vendor fodder or clan hand-me-downs. I bought extra inventory slots back in april 2013 because I kept getting great purple drops with cool rolls that I always thought would come in handy after I had maxed my weapon levels. Then... welll.... that turned out to be a waste. I mean, I almost never have more than 60 items in my inventory at any given time (because grenades).

Only one thing I can think of that I would pay cash money for - All PvP pursuits checked off without having to PvP.

Midori Oku
08-08-2014, 10:38 AM
I agree. There are many ways they could change the bits store up to make people spend more money, and make the players who do spend that money happy at the same time. Yesterday I bought five of the new lockboxes ($20) in hopes for one of the new outfits. Out of the five lockboxes I got one purple, no outfits, and all of the weapons were encrypted. I would have much rather spent the $20 on the exact outfit I wanted. Before anyone says anything, yes I know it's a gamble. I'm not really upset about the weapons, but it would have been nice to at least get one outfit for my $20.

I see no reason why they can't add more options to the bits store that actually benefit players, and not absolutely cheat us out of our money. Putting outfits in lockboxes is a terrible idea. There are other ways of selling outfits randomly than putting them in lockboxes that have a chance of not giving you one.

Here is an example from PSO2:

They have scratch tickets you can buy that will randomly give you an outfit from several sets (depending on which ticket you buy). Those outfits have many different colors and you're still not guaranteed to get the outfit you want. However, you still get an outfit. The only problem there is the fact that you can sell outfits to other players in PSO2.

I could see a system somewhat like this being ok.

Here's my suggestions for the bits store:

1: Raise the amount of arkforge given at the current prices
2: Guarantee outfits from lockboxes bought from the bits store
3: Bring back loot boosts
4: Increase the amount of time personal/group boosts stay active
5: Add more weapon customization mods (I would love to make my Wildcat look like a Wolverine)
6: Add all outfits available from lockboxes for individual purchase (with slightly increased price than normal)
7: Make lockboxes have better epic/legendary rates than they currently do
8: Weapons obtained from lockboxes from the bits store should not have a chance at being encrypted
9: Lower the price of lockboxes (maybe to where you can buy 2-3 for the price you can now)
10: Increase the number for keycode upgrades we can buy
11: Add a one year Patron Pass option
12: Slightly increase the boosts given by the patron pass (5% would be reasonable)

I'm sure there are other things I would like to see, but I'm not able to think of anymore off the top of my head right now. Basically, make stuff benefit players more, and not absolutely rip us off. I get that Trion is a business, and needs to make money. However, why not do stuff that makes the customers happy when they buy something from the bits store, and not upset them? Make it worth it to the people who buy stuff. Give a reason for people to want to spend more without fear of getting cheated out of what they spent. Reward those who support you! It's that simple.

Holy Bahamut3
08-08-2014, 10:44 AM
snip....

They put outfits in the boxes, because its a cheap way to get us to purchase those boxes across multiple characters. See IF you roll that outfit you want its only good for THAT character. If you buy an outfit in store its good for your entire list of characters.

Obvious money grab is obvious.

Alastar
08-08-2014, 10:51 AM
Damn midori. That blows.

Midori Oku
08-08-2014, 10:52 AM
They put outfits in the boxes, because its a cheap way to get us to purchase those boxes across multiple characters. See IF you roll that outfit you want its only good for THAT character. If you biy an outfit in store its good for your entire list of characters.

Obvious money grab is obvious.

They could easily change to to where you have to buy it on each character. I personally would much rather them do that to be honest. That would at least guarantees that I get the outfit that I want.


Damn midori. That blows.

It sucks, but I'm not too worried about it. I mostly wanted to see just how big of a ripoff they were. Needless to say I've convinced quite a few people to not buy them, and I will continue to let people know.

Holy Bahamut3
08-08-2014, 10:55 AM
They could easily change to to where you have to buy it on each character. I personally would much rather them do that to be honest. That would at least guarantees that I get the outfit that I want.

Either its outside the realm of their programming abilities, or they LIKE hiding things behind the ridiculous RNG.

Midori Oku
08-08-2014, 10:59 AM
Either its outside the realm of their programming abilities, or they LIKE hiding things behind the ridiculous RNG.

It's more than likely both reasons.

Alastar
08-08-2014, 11:05 AM
Your sacrifice is not in vain :cool:

430005
08-08-2014, 01:32 PM
There are many ways they could change the bits store up to make people spend more money, and make the players who do spend that money happy at the same time.

They are going to include less trash loot and more value for high tier lockboxes. (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?170929-An-update-on-the-recent-reward-changes)

They didn't change a thing. You can pretty much predict it won't effect their sales positively.

Ozz
08-08-2014, 09:03 PM
Thank you all for you replies :)

Ozz
08-09-2014, 07:08 AM
Thank you Midori Oku for your input :)

Mesohorny
08-09-2014, 07:35 AM
And they believe by increasing KC prices they'll gain more buyers for instore LBs.

only hardcore players and idiots(the two are different) would spend money on this game.

430005
08-09-2014, 12:24 PM
only hardcore players and idiots would spend money on this game.

With a different setup (which should be expected in F2P) it could open up to a much wider range.

I really have a negative stance towards Trion's "whales and suckers" cash shop approach.

Giren
08-09-2014, 12:46 PM
With a different setup (which should be expected in F2P) it could open up to a much wider range.

I really have a negative stance towards Trion's "whales and suckers" cash shop approach.

Wait there are still whales in this game?

Ozz
08-10-2014, 01:18 AM
Bump ,,,,,,,,,,,,

Allocater
08-10-2014, 05:35 AM
Nice history lesson, I started 1 week ago and that was quite interesting.

drackiller
08-10-2014, 06:03 AM
only hardcore players and idiots(the two are different) would spend money on this game.

What is an Hardcore player to you?

I play this game every day since i bought last year in April, and i consider my self an hardcore player for that.
I bought the game, then i must be hardcore.
I also bought the season pass, another reason to be hardcore.
And yes, i bought things of use in the game like slots and an occasional boost, another reason to be hardcore?

No, i don`t buy lockboxs with bits and the rest of the stuff, but unless you know what you are talking about , you shouldn`t generalize everyone.

About the idiots, i don`t have any comments to do right now.

Telemachus
08-10-2014, 06:29 AM
I'm irate about the keys dropping less.


Remember in the first month or so they actually dropped off emergencies . Could buy 4-5 tier 4's just by running down the roads, during my normal playing times.


Still took my characters months to get my first orange though, anyway that's a different gripe...rnd bs.


Was debating on whether to buy arkforge or just slow grind the tens of thousands by just playing the game. Well they made that decision easy, not bothering to support the game any more, because of these new "fixes" we feel neutered... again


Have had my characters inventories basically made worthless twice already.. If I fix them by upgrading ... just to be made into scrap again ...


$60 preorder then $40 deluxe upgrade then $40 for season pass, then $60 for bits since then, so $200 plus and rewarded with continual disappointment . NO more.

Ozz
08-10-2014, 11:31 AM
Hi Everyone,

First – I’m sorry this took several days to get to this. Tuesday was a busy day for the team as we rolled out the Silicon Valley land expansion. Similarly, Wednesday was just as busy preparing a server update to fix several crashes. Today we updated the Live Database for every player in the game to fix a text bug.

But the reward changes mentioned in this thread are just as important – and so we wanted to explain to you a bit more about what we did and what some of our goals are moving forward.

We have been listening to feedback on many different fronts: the forums, in game reports, direct PM’s with some of you, and even discussions with Defiance fanatics within the company. The changes in the 2.200 patch are one more step (but certainly not the final step) on the path to addressing a common theme in the feedback: the desire for better rewards and the desire for more value for your time and bits. One of our end goals is to get to a place where there is a good, fair, chance of obtaining amazing rewards, and less of a chance at receiving absolute trash. This is a sentiment echoed time and time again on the forums.

But - as we continue to review the data and delve into how to make that a reality - it became even more clear that the general flow of rewards into the game was too high. And if we were to go in and just remove many of the sub-optimal rewards from the game at the old rates we'd flood the market and all of the sought after rewards would become too common too quickly. Some of you have posted your thoughts on this as well; there are some excellent, insightful, threads discussing it.

There will be more adjustments to how rewards are given out - not just negative changes (as many see the recent ones) but also positive ones. Unfortunately, some of the changes in 2.200 had to come before the positive ones.

That said, some of those positives coming in the future include:

Less “trash” loot in general.
More value added to higher tier boxes.
Specific chase items added (and messaged) in boxes as well as other content.

Some of the basic framework to achieve this has already been put in place:

PTS as a viable test bed for not just patches, but balancing.
A marked increase in communication and forum presence of devs on the project
Dev members working directly with the community

Finally: We've seen some of you point to the bits store and state that these changes are solely about forcing people to use the store to play the game. While it’s a subjective, I don’t believe you are requiredto spend bits to enjoy the game. But - we've never made it a secret here at Trion that we are a business: that servers cost money to run, and the developers salaries must be paid – and yes, we’d like to make a profit. We greatly appreciate everyone that helps support us and we want to make sure that you feel that you are getting a good value when you choose to support us.

I've posted this thread as an update, and encourage you to start new threads with your comments in the main forums.

We will read every one of them.

--Phantasie

Ozz
08-10-2014, 01:44 PM
It's not good enough TRION. If you're gonna take that stand, without compromise, then this ship will sink. It's happened to other games, and you're not immuned to this possibility.

DeadEye68
08-10-2014, 01:47 PM
You're aware you're dropping into the discussion two days late right ?

Reposting an announcement two days late, when other users have already made a couple hundred posts in reaction. Did you watch other threads ?

Ozz
08-10-2014, 01:54 PM
You're aware you're dropping into the discussion two days late right ?

Reposting an announcement two days late, when other users have already made a couple hundred posts in reaction. Did you watch other threads ?
This post is just as much a part of the current argument. That's why I'm not dropping it.

DeadEye68
08-10-2014, 02:11 PM
This post is just as much a part of the current argument. That's why I'm not dropping it.

All you did is repost an official communication everyone interested has already read and copiously commented upon. You're not contributing at all, only bumping one more redundant thread that merely spreads players reaction thinner.

You're not contributing, just as you don't contribute by bumping dupe threads like you did.

One does not shoot buffaloes with rocksalt, we need higher caliber. Concentrate our efforts for maximal impact, not dilute them in every direction possible.

Ozz
08-10-2014, 04:07 PM
I'm not talking about Trions post but mine.

DeadEye68
08-10-2014, 04:23 PM
Your post adds nothing. It has been said over and over, with better wording in many cases.

Want to contribute ?

Help spreading the no Store signature.

Jet1337
08-10-2014, 04:23 PM
It's not good enough TRION. If you're gonna take that stand, without compromise, then this ship will sink. It's happened to other games, and you're not immuned to this possibility.

Fair maiden, your words seem to be falling upon deaf ears. It would be best to take the remaining shreds of our dignity here and carry on.

Now read that using the typical male Nord voice from Skyrim in your head for an added dramatic effect!

But serious, though.

430005
08-12-2014, 05:56 AM
Fair maiden, your words seem to be falling upon deaf ears.

Over 3k views, im sure this thread has been read.

Covington
08-12-2014, 06:05 AM
Thanks for posting that Ozz. Don't know why a few here seem to jump on certain people and what they post, I didn't see most of this thread or the latest post. Everyone does add to the discussions here, it isn't genuine to tell someone their posts don't matter. We all don't read everyday. Been a weird negative girl pile lately. Let's just breathe a bit, real thing in real life are crazy and tense, let's not loose our little family here.

430005
08-12-2014, 11:15 PM
Don't know why a few here seem to jump on certain people and what they post, I didn't see most of this thread or the latest post.

Some just dont want to see that Trion's reasoning for nerfing arkforge is flawed. Others are positive Trion will change. Trion wont change untill they see sales drop even more.

DeadEye68
08-13-2014, 12:58 AM
Some just dont want to see that Trion's reasoning for nerfing arkforge is flawed.

Some also consider that spamming inconsequential, empty stuff amounts to nothing and drowns out meaningful contributions.

Bonehead
08-13-2014, 01:01 AM
BTW people still buy from the store.

430005
08-13-2014, 01:08 AM
Some also consider that spamming inconsequential, empty stuff amounts to nothing and drowns out meaningful contributions.

I am posting a valid response. Please stay on topic please.

Tsort
08-13-2014, 01:45 AM
1. The prices are too steep.
2. The RNG is too jacked up.
3. The prices are too steep.
4. The RNG is too jacked up.
5. See reason #1.
6. See reason #2.
Etc.
Etc.

You forgot :

Items quality in the shop is subpar

dozens of re-colored or buggy (bungie) vehicles, with stats that are sometimes worse than what you get elsewhere - outfits that change your haircut or hair/skin color, dozens of plastic armors and no actual survivalist-looking clothes or I don't know... perhaps stuff that's in the TV show? - surprise boxes, you buy and don't know what's inside, not even a preview like in other box & keys model (Valve model for example)... will it be a weapon with absurd rolls, or a 0.00001% chance of an outfit... but what's the use when everybody turns into General Steve anyway by the way... - boosts for currencies and droprates that keep chaning after every patch - need I go on?

Never bought anything because I never found anything appealing, period.

Riandra
08-13-2014, 09:18 AM
Without seeing Trion's statistics from their store we don't really know if people have stopped purchasing from the store.

That being written, the way that I interpret Trion's recent changes and comments about future changes: a lack of vision and direction for the game coupled with a hope for short term revenue.

By making these changes Trion is trying to increase the perceived potential value of the top tier lock boxes. The idea is this: make the most expensive lock boxes worthwhile to buy. How to do that? Well, one way would be to make them guarantee a drop but then people would just buy one (and, be happy about it). Another way is to introduce randomness ('cause people like to gamble) so that, on average, someone has to buy X number of boxes to get what they want. The higher that X value the more money right?

Maybe. In the short term.

In the long term people get upset and quit the game. That loss of players means less income down the road. But, if you are looking at a quarterly earnings report coming at you and your bonuses are based on that who cares about the longevity of the game? Get the money now.

Defiance is in need of a clear vision as to what to do with the game. As it is the game is fun but it is also languishing in some strange netherworld of not know what it wants to be. The game elements are disjointed and scattered. This applies to the store (I can't make any sense of the store pricing for outfits for example - it's all over the place) to events in the game.

The more I learn about Defiance and explore it the clearer it becomes that the game has no direction. I'm sure that the people working on it are doing their best since many of the game elements are a lot of fun but as an overall product it's missing that sense of purpose and vision.

These changes just reflect a short-term scattered focus. Someone probably said something like, "hey, I think that gear is coming into the game too fast. Why are lock boxes so cheap to get with in game currencies?" Then someone else probably said something like, "Oh, hey, that's a good point. We haven't really looked at that stuff as we go through the transition." That conversation then probably went down the path to "If we up the price of lock boxes with in game resources, reduce the amount of resources coming in then we'll make more money!!" "Great idea! Let's do it." And.. poof. Into the game it goes.

Maybe Defiance will begin to have a unified focus, direction, and vision. If so, the game could really blossom. Or, more likely, the game will continue to bounce from thing to thing to thing in rapid succession with changes coming in trying to fix it but just upsetting more people who then leave to be replaced by a new crop of people who see the game as bright and shiny until they, too, become disillusioned. Managing a game like this is a tough proposition but it can be done so long as the key of "do for your customers what you would want done to yourself" is held in mind.

People really don't mind paying for things. Seriously. People will happily donate money if they feel that they've gotten more value than has been charged to them. People are okay with companies wanting to be profitable and will happily pay a fair premium for a product. The problem comes when people start feeling like they are being nickled and dimed over everything or that the value for dollar just isn't there. That value for dollar proposition is a soft and fluffy thing in that it is mutable and often dictated by created desirability bolstered by marketing.

Anyway, I'm rambling and should finish up lunch.

N3gativeCr33p
08-13-2014, 09:49 AM
You forgot:

I didn't forget anything... I just stopped caring.

BladeRunnerOne
08-13-2014, 10:29 AM
By the way good forum Ozz,
I sent this to Trion the other day. Most certainly going to fall on deaf ears...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After reading the forums after the ballyhooed 2.1 SV patch, I as well as many others have responded in disdain to the unheralded destruction of the game's social and economic environments in just a few swift updates and even fewer misplaced beliefs.

Your goal as a for-profit company is to create mechanism that encourages transactions. I get it ! However, these transactions should not be for just the high-spender gamers (the guys whom will drop $300 - $500 plus into add-ons and the game's store-front) but for the commoner whom works for minimum wage and shouldn't have to make a decision to go grocery shopping or drop money into your in-game store. Understanding that a great game's livelihood is maybe 3 years before technology renders the game old and obsolete that would require a massive capital infusion to update the program to a more conducive standard of the time. Instead a more focused quest creating a reliable reputation as a game developer that will give gamers a reason to purchase future Trion products. This is only truth and causality of gaming industry, reputation is everything.

First, your incessant belief that to many legendary weapons exist that have a perceived high value is completely misplaced. As a matter of extreme fact, 95% of the legendary weapons are utter crap in the game. This is apparent after just a short time to all players in the game. It becomes very quickly clear as one plays your game that one is much better off building or self-acquiring the more important weapons in the game. As the ultimate goal, in the gamers mind, is to perform at a high level in the community events (Dark Matter, Hellbug, Scrapper, Warmaster, PvP, etc.) were they can view their score compared to the other players and reap a self-fulling reward for this achievement. By the way, are you guys tracking how many people even attempt to pull down a major arkfall, Once a gathering portal for the players is nothing more than a heap of wasted time.

Secondly, your economic model that you have chosen to pursue actually alienates the people playing your game and it's soon to get much worse with the delve into f2p. Dressing my character up for a buck or two is fine, get's old real fast! Give me an upgrade to strengthen my character or weapons is exactly what I and everyone else wants in the game. The “Chase” is to be in the upper echelon of players, this is why we play the game. Yes, it is fine for you to make a profit and pay for the services your rendering, however, the mechanisms you have chosen leave the community feeling they are being fleeced and getting nothing in return.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem A:

Through proper examination your realized and rightfully so that weapons hunting in-game, not bartering with ark-hunter pirates, was the next evolution to maintaining customer engagement. You gave us a wonderful ability to mine for weapons to create, as we chose, the best weapon to score points in these major events, wonderful decision the community loved it. Then the infamous decision to “encrypt” the weapons as to not allow upgrade-ability under the misplaced belief that to many legendary weapons were flooding the game marketplace.

Solution A:

Why would you even care! Keep the chase alive for cryin-out-load !!! You should have been looking at this as a way to make a profit by reasonably charging gamers for this upgrade-ability. Remember 2-3 year window to extract micro transactions from the community. And micro is just that ! It's not $8 from blue to purp or $16 for purp to oj. This pricing structure is way out of line with your demographics. Get the player for creating value in the minutiae transactions, before you know it they'll have spent $16 uprgrading 8 or 10 weapons not just being fleeced for one lousy upgrade. This way you'd have gotten half a dozen people buying upgrades verses none under the current system. The risk to reward just doesn't exist and will never under your current pricing structure.

You need to re-implement a de-cryptablity to the weapon market. You opened up Pandora’s box now make the appropriate adjustment that doesn't influence another mass-exoduses. Create a new “cypher” that can de-encrpyt a weapon and charge customers in the bit store for the ability. This does not mean an outrageous pricing structure. Make me believe I am spending pennies and I won”t notice I've spend dollars ! It is a matter of fact that the most sot-after weapons require almost perfect rolls (white, green, blue). My current in-game contribution for my clan is over $100 million, I look at every single weapon I have picked up throughout my time playing so I have personally witnessed how hard it is to get these perfect roles, this should never change as this is the diamond in the rough and will keep me and others “chasing” the perfect weapon.

Unbeknownst to you, by ripping this away from the community you created a double negative event. In your mind you gave us positive upgrade (+1), then you reverted back to the old system (-1), net-net = 0 result. Actually, from the gamers point of few its -1, because it changed our mindset to spend money and what was perceived to be a positive move in the right direction, therefore in one swift key-stroke, you rendered our in-game purchases instantly worthless. This is why a couple of hundred people just flat out abandoned the game, you lost transparency and credibility all at the same time.

You cannot expect the gamer community to be happy with a random weapon dropping system, as it leaves way to much to chance. Meaning I could put hundred of hours in the game with a chance to never acquire the most sot-after weapons. Hence the ability through hard work to develop them from scratch (this is called “the chase”). There no longer exist the chase!! Not everyone wants to sit around for hours trying to negotiate with a disillusioned ark hunter as-to is his wolfhound worth 2 or 3 million scrip. Do you want me to make Trion transactions or do you want me to make Ark hunter transactions, you don't make a dime on that guy trying to sell me a wolfy for 3 million scrip. Give me the ability to acquire, build and upgrade my own weapons through game play and charge me reasonably to do so, a buck or two max!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem B:

In-game rewarding system is almost completely futile under this new horrendous system. However you want to justify it, the new rewarding system is a complete PR (personal relations) disaster !!! There is no, I repeat no, rewards anymore for grinding the most common of events in the game. Therefore, without a carrot to strive for, there is no more enjoyment in playing the game. The “chase”, once again, has been obliterated in a swift and completely unnecessary way.

Solution B:

Next, immediately restore viable levels to the key and forge drops in the major game events. This second part of “the chase” has been completely destroyed by this latest nuclear update. Move it up from the current level by at least 100% since in was slashed by over 300%. Now, in order to encourage transaction that Trion can realize a profit from, add a key and forge boost that can be stacked. And don't patronize us with minuscule increments of 10 -15% boosts, Through the dog a steak, not a cold bone! Make the stack increase to over 100% and I and many others would have consistently drop coin into your bit-store. People will pay for useful transactions !

Also, get rid of the score boost, this serves nothing other than for egotistical players to see there name on a leader board without going through the mechanics of developing their character through ego and weapon enhancements. In a dysfunctional way your current “score” boost allows me to get an increase in key/forge earns but give me exactly what I and others want, “a key/forge boost” ! Maybe even implement a historical scoring system in the major events to keep the gamers trying to top-one-another best scores, not this misconceived score boost system that accomplishes nothing.

In the end, the chase is all but dead in this game, these bandade ideas that you're tossing back to the community on the forum pages will all but ensure a slow or rapid death depending on your elevation. Come back to reality, to hell with trying to maintain some imaginary marketplace ideals, the game may not have another year or two left in it. Stop making positive changes and reverting them out, as this is always going to scare gamers away forever. And for god-sakes if you implement something that creates an unforeseen negative ramification never fix it by doing a backward revision, this is always viewed by everyone that your don't have a grasp of progress or what you are doing. If you value your work and your fellow comrades you should be in all-out retreat from this destructive path and safe the companies reputation, once lost... impossible to get back...

430005
08-13-2014, 10:49 AM
---------double posted---------

430005
08-13-2014, 10:51 AM
Most certainly going to fall on deaf ears..

Tryin did nerf some items which were mentioned on forum. So it depends on the topic.

Ozz
08-13-2014, 11:33 AM
Without seeing Trion's statistics from their store we don't really know if people have stopped purchasing from the store.

That being written, the way that I interpret Trion's recent changes and comments about future changes: a lack of vision and direction for the game coupled with a hope for short term revenue.

By making these changes Trion is trying to increase the perceived potential value of the top tier lock boxes. The idea is this: make the most expensive lock boxes worthwhile to buy. How to do that? Well, one way would be to make them guarantee a drop but then people would just buy one (and, be happy about it). Another way is to introduce randomness ('cause people like to gamble) so that, on average, someone has to buy X number of boxes to get what they want. The higher that X value the more money right?

Maybe. In the short term.

In the long term people get upset and quit the game. That loss of players means less income down the road. But, if you are looking at a quarterly earnings report coming at you and your bonuses are based on that who cares about the longevity of the game? Get the money now.

Defiance is in need of a clear vision as to what to do with the game. As it is the game is fun but it is also languishing in some strange netherworld of not know what it wants to be. The game elements are disjointed and scattered. This applies to the store (I can't make any sense of the store pricing for outfits for example - it's all over the place) to events in the game.

The more I learn about Defiance and explore it the clearer it becomes that the game has no direction. I'm sure that the people working on it are doing their best since many of the game elements are a lot of fun but as an overall product it's missing that sense of purpose and vision.

These changes just reflect a short-term scattered focus. Someone probably said something like, "hey, I think that gear is coming into the game too fast. Why are lock boxes so cheap to get with in game currencies?" Then someone else probably said something like, "Oh, hey, that's a good point. We haven't really looked at that stuff as we go through the transition." That conversation then probably went down the path to "If we up the price of lock boxes with in game resources, reduce the amount of resources coming in then we'll make more money!!" "Great idea! Let's do it." And.. poof. Into the game it goes.

Maybe Defiance will begin to have a unified focus, direction, and vision. If so, the game could really blossom. Or, more likely, the game will continue to bounce from thing to thing to thing in rapid succession with changes coming in trying to fix it but just upsetting more people who then leave to be replaced by a new crop of people who see the game as bright and shiny until they, too, become disillusioned. Managing a game like this is a tough proposition but it can be done so long as the key of "do for your customers what you would want done to yourself" is held in mind.

People really don't mind paying for things. Seriously. People will happily donate money if they feel that they've gotten more value than has been charged to them. People are okay with companies wanting to be profitable and will happily pay a fair premium for a product. The problem comes when people start feeling like they are being nickled and dimed over everything or that the value for dollar just isn't there. That value for dollar proposition is a soft and fluffy thing in that it is mutable and often dictated by created desirability bolstered by marketing.

Anyway, I'm rambling and should finish up lunch.
Thank you for your most valued input Riandra :)

Ozz
08-13-2014, 11:34 AM
By the way good forum Ozz,
I sent this to Trion the other day. Most certainly going to fall on deaf ears...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After reading the forums after the ballyhooed 2.1 SV patch, I as well as many others have responded in disdain to the unheralded destruction of the game's social and economic environments in just a few swift updates and even fewer misplaced beliefs.

Your goal as a for-profit company is to create mechanism that encourages transactions. I get it ! However, these transactions should not be for just the high-spender gamers (the guys whom will drop $300 - $500 plus into add-ons and the game's store-front) but for the commoner whom works for minimum wage and shouldn't have to make a decision to go grocery shopping or drop money into your in-game store. Understanding that a great game's livelihood is maybe 3 years before technology renders the game old and obsolete that would require a massive capital infusion to update the program to a more conducive standard of the time. Instead a more focused quest creating a reliable reputation as a game developer that will give gamers a reason to purchase future Trion products. This is only truth and causality of gaming industry, reputation is everything.

First, your incessant belief that to many legendary weapons exist that have a perceived high value is completely misplaced. As a matter of extreme fact, 95% of the legendary weapons are utter crap in the game. This is apparent after just a short time to all players in the game. It becomes very quickly clear as one plays your game that one is much better off building or self-acquiring the more important weapons in the game. As the ultimate goal, in the gamers mind, is to perform at a high level in the community events (Dark Matter, Hellbug, Scrapper, Warmaster, PvP, etc.) were they can view their score compared to the other players and reap a self-fulling reward for this achievement. By the way, are you guys tracking how many people even attempt to pull down a major arkfall, Once a gathering portal for the players is nothing more than a heap of wasted time.

Secondly, your economic model that you have chosen to pursue actually alienates the people playing your game and it's soon to get much worse with the delve into f2p. Dressing my character up for a buck or two is fine, get's old real fast! Give me an upgrade to strengthen my character or weapons is exactly what I and everyone else wants in the game. The “Chase” is to be in the upper echelon of players, this is why we play the game. Yes, it is fine for you to make a profit and pay for the services your rendering, however, the mechanisms you have chosen leave the community feeling they are being fleeced and getting nothing in return.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem A:

Through proper examination your realized and rightfully so that weapons hunting in-game, not bartering with ark-hunter pirates, was the next evolution to maintaining customer engagement. You gave us a wonderful ability to mine for weapons to create, as we chose, the best weapon to score points in these major events, wonderful decision the community loved it. Then the infamous decision to “encrypt” the weapons as to not allow upgrade-ability under the misplaced belief that to many legendary weapons were flooding the game marketplace.

Solution A:

Why would you even care! Keep the chase alive for cryin-out-load !!! You should have been looking at this as a way to make a profit by reasonably charging gamers for this upgrade-ability. Remember 2-3 year window to extract micro transactions from the community. And micro is just that ! It's not $8 from blue to purp or $16 for purp to oj. This pricing structure is way out of line with your demographics. Get the player for creating value in the minutiae transactions, before you know it they'll have spent $16 uprgrading 8 or 10 weapons not just being fleeced for one lousy upgrade. This way you'd have gotten half a dozen people buying upgrades verses none under the current system. The risk to reward just doesn't exist and will never under your current pricing structure.

You need to re-implement a de-cryptablity to the weapon market. You opened up Pandora’s box now make the appropriate adjustment that doesn't influence another mass-exoduses. Create a new “cypher” that can de-encrpyt a weapon and charge customers in the bit store for the ability. This does not mean an outrageous pricing structure. Make me believe I am spending pennies and I won”t notice I've spend dollars ! It is a matter of fact that the most sot-after weapons require almost perfect rolls (white, green, blue). My current in-game contribution for my clan is over $100 million, I look at every single weapon I have picked up throughout my time playing so I have personally witnessed how hard it is to get these perfect roles, this should never change as this is the diamond in the rough and will keep me and others “chasing” the perfect weapon.

Unbeknownst to you, by ripping this away from the community you created a double negative event. In your mind you gave us positive upgrade (+1), then you reverted back to the old system (-1), net-net = 0 result. Actually, from the gamers point of few its -1, because it changed our mindset to spend money and what was perceived to be a positive move in the right direction, therefore in one swift key-stroke, you rendered our in-game purchases instantly worthless. This is why a couple of hundred people just flat out abandoned the game, you lost transparency and credibility all at the same time.

You cannot expect the gamer community to be happy with a random weapon dropping system, as it leaves way to much to chance. Meaning I could put hundred of hours in the game with a chance to never acquire the most sot-after weapons. Hence the ability through hard work to develop them from scratch (this is called “the chase”). There no longer exist the chase!! Not everyone wants to sit around for hours trying to negotiate with a disillusioned ark hunter as-to is his wolfhound worth 2 or 3 million scrip. Do you want me to make Trion transactions or do you want me to make Ark hunter transactions, you don't make a dime on that guy trying to sell me a wolfy for 3 million scrip. Give me the ability to acquire, build and upgrade my own weapons through game play and charge me reasonably to do so, a buck or two max!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem B:

In-game rewarding system is almost completely futile under this new horrendous system. However you want to justify it, the new rewarding system is a complete PR (personal relations) disaster !!! There is no, I repeat no, rewards anymore for grinding the most common of events in the game. Therefore, without a carrot to strive for, there is no more enjoyment in playing the game. The “chase”, once again, has been obliterated in a swift and completely unnecessary way.

Solution B:

Next, immediately restore viable levels to the key and forge drops in the major game events. This second part of “the chase” has been completely destroyed by this latest nuclear update. Move it up from the current level by at least 100% since in was slashed by over 300%. Now, in order to encourage transaction that Trion can realize a profit from, add a key and forge boost that can be stacked. And don't patronize us with minuscule increments of 10 -15% boosts, Through the dog a steak, not a cold bone! Make the stack increase to over 100% and I and many others would have consistently drop coin into your bit-store. People will pay for useful transactions !

Also, get rid of the score boost, this serves nothing other than for egotistical players to see there name on a leader board without going through the mechanics of developing their character through ego and weapon enhancements. In a dysfunctional way your current “score” boost allows me to get an increase in key/forge earns but give me exactly what I and others want, “a key/forge boost” ! Maybe even implement a historical scoring system in the major events to keep the gamers trying to top-one-another best scores, not this misconceived score boost system that accomplishes nothing.

In the end, the chase is all but dead in this game, these bandade ideas that you're tossing back to the community on the forum pages will all but ensure a slow or rapid death depending on your elevation. Come back to reality, to hell with trying to maintain some imaginary marketplace ideals, the game may not have another year or two left in it. Stop making positive changes and reverting them out, as this is always going to scare gamers away forever. And for god-sakes if you implement something that creates an unforeseen negative ramification never fix it by doing a backward revision, this is always viewed by everyone that your don't have a grasp of progress or what you are doing. If you value your work and your fellow comrades you should be in all-out retreat from this destructive path and safe the companies reputation, once lost... impossible to get back...

Thank you for your most valued input BladeRunnerOne :)

430005
08-14-2014, 12:14 AM
In the end, the chase is all but dead in this game, these bandade ideas that you're tossing back to the community on the forum pages will all but ensure a slow or rapid death depending on your elevation.

That jackpot Wildcat isn't a bandage. I could say what I think about it, but it probably get me a ban.

Ozz
08-14-2014, 09:23 AM
People cry out for all sorts of reasons, because of what they experience is real to them and not necessarily to others. However, every cry has a cost behind it giving reason for them to stay or leave. They care enough to speak out despite of the ridicule and backlash delivered by others.

Some people get so attached to their game and care for its well being, like a Mother would for her baby. This is why some speak louder than others in their last desperate hope to be heard. Everyone is important, but if nothing changes to save that which is highly regarded, then "Better is the End of a Thing, Than The Beginning".

Does a Farmer after scattering seed, walk away and leave it to the birds ?

Desperado070
08-16-2014, 06:16 AM
IMO, if Trion wants people to spend money, and keep spending money then they need to put stuff in the cash store players will continually purchase.
...

Just this lol.
And funny you say it since the first day i played i was like why the heck are there no motorcycles???

But beside this all the patron pass now is a "joke".
I'm real happy i got this week a 15 day patron pass.
Why? because this prevents me from ever buying it whit cash!
I play the game for 2 weeks now and close to 1500 ego.
I really like the game and slap myself in the face for not buying it before it went F2P.
The inventory slots is a pain in the @ss, i mean 35? are you kidding me?
Easy thing would be saying he go buy slots in the bit store!
If i want a decent inventory i'm gonna need atleast 50 slots to store weapons & shields. (spikes grenades etc...)
And then i still need slots to collect the drops ill find along the way.
So i'm gonna need at-least 100 ~ 200 inventory slots.
I'm not gonna pay $50 + to get those slots to be able to enjoy the game as i should have.
A very simple solution to this is add this into the patron pass.
Every body knows that a game stands on people paying monthly.
A shop would always be a 1 time payment, fix you freaking patron pass for god sake.

Like an example.
Patron pass:
200 inventory slots (for as-long you have the patron pass)
Key cap increase from 50 > 100 (for as-long you have the patron pass)
Tier 4 box weekly

And yes if you want people to go out and buy bits.
Then you really have to come whit something else then cars that you can get ingame already.
Get motorcycles like from the movie which the raiders got.
Bring really shop exclusive cars into the shop.
If i look to the store right now i don't see a bright future.

430005
08-16-2014, 06:21 AM
And yes if you want people to go out and buy bits. Then you really have to come whit something else then cars that you can get ingame already.

Everybody been sayin that for, like forevah. I'm sure even if they would introduce motorcycles, you'd have to pay $10,- to unlock one. And it's not a sponsor thing, cuz Dodge has a cool one:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XehkMQpeyA

But noooo, they have to give us a Maibatsu Monstrosity (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSk6UWQSibY). Well, at least that one was for free.

Ozz
08-17-2014, 03:15 AM
Take a Music Break and Chillout. Click here and add your favorite:

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?171915-Music-Break-!!!-Check-Out-The-Menu-And-Add-Yours-!!!/page2

Seizan
08-17-2014, 05:49 AM
People have stopped purchasing bits because (my opinion anyway):

1. Cost of items do not justify the value/quality.

2. Trion continues to break the game.

3. Trion's dishonesty and lack of communication when it comes to implementing changes (which are 9/10 times detrimental to the game).

4. Trion needs to understand that whatever gear, boosts, outfits, vehicles, items of convenience are nothing more than luxury to have in this game. They are not needs or precious commodities like food/water/fuel where you can jack up the price just by limiting supply because they are essential to people. Trion thinks that just by limiting our access to these items through in-game currency, we'll be "forced" to make bit store purchases. Ummm really? I know there are whales out there who would still spend hardcore cash on this game even if Trion literally took a dump on their face, but most sensible people would stop spending real currency on a product when it fails to offer anything in return and continues to disappoint. Many have already stopped spending and many more will follow if Trion continues to make shortsighted decisions.

Ozz
08-17-2014, 06:44 AM
Thank you Seizan, good post. It is very important for anyone who posts here tells Trion exactly how they feel without fear. I am fed up with them too and about to leave the game and fold up my clan after 15 months of playing and supporting them. All we get in return time and time again is "Stuff You We Are Gonna Do It Anyway".

We all have our limits, some more than others. However, many long term players have left this game and there is much rumors going around that if they don't fix this game to how it was before patch 2.2, within the next 2 weeks they are leaving. With this said, I may also be joining them and saying farewell to all my friends in my clan, which together we all have worked so hard to establish.

430005
08-18-2014, 04:06 AM
I know there are whales out there who would still spend hardcore cash on this game even if Trion literally took a dump on their face, but most sensible people would stop spending real currency on a product when it fails to offer anything in return and continues to disappoint.

Im pretty sure even those last whales are wondering why they should spend any money on the game now. But yeah, agree with your bullits. Lockboxes are slotmachines on crack these days.

Kanah
08-18-2014, 04:31 AM
A very simple solution to this is add this into the patron pass.
Every body knows that a game stands on people paying monthly.
A shop would always be a 1 time payment, fix you freaking patron pass for god sake.

Like an example.
Patron pass:
200 inventory slots (for as-long you have the patron pass)
Key cap increase from 50 > 100 (for as-long you have the patron pass)
Tier 4 box weekly


There's some resistance to the idea of a monthly sub. But this is what the Patron Pass is, trouble is it's just not very good.

If it provided a real alternative to the f2p cash-shop shtako, then I believe many of the more dedicated players would buy it.

As well as convenience upgrades for the duration of the pass, I think it should now contain a 100% reward boost. Not the crappy 10% it has now.

I don't know how many times I can say it. I WOULD PAY MONTHLY TO BE FREED FROM THIS F2P SHTAKO NERF-FEST. Even though I've already paid for the damn game!

crazyged
08-18-2014, 04:55 AM
Problem is, it would be very difficult to change this to a subscription thing.

People have purchased this game prior to ftp and that is as binding as any contract - the game is bought and paid for by these players, regardless of it being ftp now.

I could see lawsuits if they tried to make those same players subscribe...

Ironhide
08-18-2014, 05:02 AM
I would spend more in their cash shop if the price matched the item, 10 bucks for a whole outfit is crazy. I admit when the game first came out I did buy a few, to support something I liked. As time and changes set in my wanting to support Trion waned. Why should I spend money to support jacked up changes. I'd be more apt to spend money now if the Store items reflected their actual value. An outfit (both head and body) for 3 to 5 dollars is better. 6 to 8 bucks for a vehicle perhapse.

But I digress Trions latest actions as well as the ones I've put up with and been pissed off about over the past year, which I have hoped beyond hope they would see, listen, and fix (which they havent), has left me not wanting to spend one cent for anything anymore. The more I can sucker them out of for free the better. If they make it to where I get nothing, then well all I can say is 9/9/14, lets watch their game dry up then.

Tsort
08-18-2014, 06:17 AM
The state of "customer satisfaction" is depressing, as seen in this thread. Defiance could have been a hit. :/

N3gativeCr33p
08-18-2014, 06:24 AM
The state of "customer satisfaction" is depressing, as seen in this thread. Defiance could have been a hit. :/

Indeed!

Could have.

Should have.

Would have.

Ironhide
08-18-2014, 06:27 AM
Indeed!

Could have.

Should have.

Would have.

Not a chance now!

N3gativeCr33p
08-18-2014, 06:30 AM
Not a chance now!

You got that right! As I mentioned to someone else this morning, once season two of the TV show ends I'll be officially finished with this dog and pony show.

Ironhide
08-18-2014, 06:39 AM
You got that right! As I mentioned to someone else this morning, once season two of the TV show ends I'll be officially finished with this dog and pony show.

Yep me too get the free **** and I'm done too. I got myself the Defiant Few (dodge bilboard crap) outfit and Durango, and the 3 new weapons and bought the black charger from the Tarr family vendor. I give up on getting the head pieces to any of the 7th legion stuff. I don't care to grind anything in game.

I remember last summer, coming on driving around, having fun just going to Arkfall to Arkfall, getting some cool stuff, buying lockboxes and getting purples and oranges and just having a blast. Now it's grind, grind, more un-fullfillling lubeless fistiing, grind, grind, grind.

N3gativeCr33p
08-18-2014, 06:41 AM
I give up on getting the head pieces to any of the 7th legion stuff. I don't care to grind anything in game.

Yeah... I stopped buying 7th Legion boxes once I got the Sedge Hat from one of them a few weeks ago.

(And don't get me started on what a waste of time and effort that Tarr vendor appears to be.) lol

Ironhide
08-18-2014, 06:48 AM
Yeah... I stopped buying 7th Legion boxes once I got the Sedge Hat from one of them a few weeks ago.

(And don't get me started on what a waste of time and effort that Tarr vendor appears to be.) lol

Basically buy the 2 rarest vehicles in game, all with a different stripe on the side. Glad I didn't waste my time getting the race challenges done. I like the Black Charger with the white stripe way better than the solid black one.

N3gativeCr33p
08-18-2014, 06:49 AM
Basically buy the 2 rarest vehicles in game, all with a different stripe on the side. Glad I didn't waste my time getting the race challenges done. I like the Black Charger with the white stripe way better than the solid black one.

Meh... I'll just stick with my Soleptor edition Durango for the time being. ;)

Ironhide
08-18-2014, 06:53 AM
Meh... I'll just stick with my Soleptor edition Durango for the time being. ;)


Yeah I do like that one myself, even if the wheels don't touch the ground. (AirRide tech?)

N3gativeCr33p
08-18-2014, 06:56 AM
Yeah I do like that one myself, even if the wheels don't touch the ground. (AirRide tech?)

Reminded me of Marty McFly and his hovering skateboard, personally... lol

Shogo_Yahagi
08-18-2014, 08:10 AM
I'm not buying anything from the store because I paid full price for a PS3 pre-order. They're already into me for $60 more than a new player and they still haven't fixed the stability issues and invisible enemy & terrain issues that have plagued it from day 1. I'm not convinced that they ever will. They had an Executive Director with PS3 development experience and they replaced him with an ex-stuntman, which I suppose is great if they plan on dropping it off a building, but less great if they want to make it a functional PS3 game.