PDA

View Full Version : Lets Do Some MATH!



ABCjohnson123
08-06-2014, 01:00 AM
Hey Trion, I really hope you have a calculator handy b/c at the rate you guys are going your going to need one. So lets do some math.

Since this INGENIOUS update I have consistently got around 8 Keys and 5 ArkForge from Dark Matter Arkfalls(Almost that exact same every time).

I want to LvL up JUST ONE GUN to legendary. AT this rate I would have to do 100 Dark Matter Arkfalls to do it.

Cost of Upgrading to Legendary = 500 Arkforge

500/5 = 100 Arkfalls (For ONE Gun!!!)

Now there is an alternate route I can take... It involves cold hard cash. $20.00 to be exact.

$20 = 1600 Bits = 500 Arkforge = 1 Purple to Legendary Upgrade(For 1 Gun)

This is only one example of how the game mechanics went from decent to holy-crap crazy. You guys must Really REALLY need money or you just happened to make "Another Mistake."

Which leads me to my next point, who in your whole entire building of insanely genius people didn't do the math that was just discussed here? If this was intended and the math behind this was done, it verifies that you all are completely insane if you expect me to pay that much or grind that much for 1 Legendary gun upgrade.

Not to mention all the guns that I have that are perfectly rolled LVL 3000-ish that id love to take to my current LvL(5700+). In reality there is no point in LvL-ing up a gun with Arkforge b/c it would take me a ******* year.

I really hope this post doesn't get wiped out b/c iv'e been bad and insulted anyone(Trion) but people need to really think about the time involved here with just a few examples of how screwed this game got within the course of just 10 hrs.

I would love to hear other peoples opinions on this matter.

duction
08-06-2014, 03:45 AM
I'm sure they must of made a mistake some where.

SpudGunner
08-06-2014, 03:47 AM
Supported.

ejester
08-06-2014, 03:55 AM
Ya the game is a total joke now. It was on thin ice before, but honestly ... everyone should just uninstall until Trion realizes just how badly they screwed up the game with this patch.

Only thing that is going to make them listen. Since they obviously don't read or care what we write on the forums.

alred
08-06-2014, 04:12 AM
IMO, this is what I think needs to be done. I'd do it, but am a bit busy currently. People need to jump on as many Free to games as possible, then open up the cash shop.
Then pick a dollar amount, let's say 20 bucks for an example.
Company: Dollar amount: Game currency: Dollar per currancy:
Perfect world/STO 20.00 2,000 zen 1 dollar per 100 zen

Defiance [Trion] 20.00 1,800 bits 1 dollar per 90 bits
Rift [Trion] 20.00 3,250 credits 1 dollar per 162.5 credits
Archeage [Trion] 20.00 3,250 credits 1 dollar per 162.5 credits

Dungeons and Dragons online 19.99 1,550 points 1 dollar per 77.54 points

Just to give an idea at cash to game currency exchange rates

colleen88
08-06-2014, 04:23 AM
I agree, lets support this forum to been seen..good math

Bentu
08-06-2014, 05:57 AM
I play for roughly 10 hours a day so I'm not too worried about the key/arkforge debacle but the new and f2p people have get a very steep hill and learning curve to climb.
Someone who works all day or goes to school and just wants to kick thier shoes off for a couple of hours have a big shock coming, and on top of that they're expected to visit the bits store for thier wants. Yes they may get fooled once but they'll take a look at what they've got and go elsewhere.

Ruinne
08-06-2014, 06:08 AM
I'm pretty sure they already know the veterans are being driven off by this last patch. They don't get money from us so they don't care.

This new model is all about creating relative (artificial) value for luck-boxes so new, short-term players can dump 20 bucks in the store, feel screwed, and move on to another game.

It's been quite clear from the very beginning that there was very little in the way of resources devoted to Defiance as it has slowly slid into complete dysfunction. This is all about a quick turn-over, someone at Trion clearly feels the game is dead and is changing the approach to a short term, high turnover business model. I sincerely doubt the dev team had any say in this..

RobDaCool
08-06-2014, 06:10 AM
they don't care.

I wonder if they ever did?

Valgmorgan
08-06-2014, 06:22 AM
I totally agree with you. The cost of upkeep on weapons is a joke now...today's patch a BIG'NERF'A'RAMA. Keycodes-Nerfed to non-existence from any minor objective completely. Sieges/Incursions/Ark-falls/Invasions -low value to none. Co-op -got zero. Ark-forge -not worth scoring in anything now...lol.

AleyBG
08-06-2014, 06:38 AM
I think they may "rebalance" the exp reward from arkfall then they'll tell us that "you can upkeep your weapons like before".

Ruinne
08-06-2014, 06:40 AM
I think they may "rebalance" the exp reward from arkfall then they'll tell us that "you can upkeep your weapons like before".

Nah, that's where the cash shop comes in. You can buy AF to upgrade your weapons every hundred levels. Personally I would love the weapon scaling to be put to death, that would make the game really attractive again.

superstorm
08-06-2014, 08:04 AM
Ya the game is a total joke now. It was on thin ice before, but honestly ... everyone should just uninstall
You have Silicon Valley. Be glad!

drackiller
08-06-2014, 08:06 AM
You have Silicon Valley. Be glad!

Be glad for what!?

Eugenitor
08-06-2014, 08:23 AM
It's been quite clear from the very beginning that there was very little in the way of resources devoted to Defiance as it has slowly slid into complete dysfunction. This is all about a quick turn-over, someone at Trion clearly feels the game is dead and is changing the approach to a short term, high turnover business model. I sincerely doubt the dev team had any say in this..

Going to have to go with this. Silicon Valley was rushed out the door, unfinished. The encrypted weapons thing is just pure evil. Arkforge is harder to get, the prices of lockbox items were jacked up totally out of hand, and overall it feels like this patch was orchestrated by the Marquis de Sade.

And they think this is going to make people pay more money? I'm starting to regret the purchases I did make.

kniferun
08-06-2014, 08:44 AM
Any money they were going to make off arkforge is ruined now. with the new encripted system arkforge is useless, except for rerolling guns and upping rarity to pre 2.2 guns. its going to be rare to find epics non encripted let alone ones worth upgrading. they were better off making money off the pre 2.2 patch arkforge system.

I dont get trions thought process when it comes to many things, especially the business side.

drackiller
08-06-2014, 08:46 AM
I dont get trions thought process when it comes to many things, especially the business side.

Neither do they, that is way companies bankrupt.

Drewbud
08-06-2014, 08:47 AM
I wonder if they ever did?

I think we all know the answers to this.

starshipindy
08-06-2014, 09:38 AM
I'm pretty sure they already know the veterans are being driven off by this last patch. They don't get money from us so they don't care.

This new model is all about creating relative (artificial) value for luck-boxes so new, short-term players can dump 20 bucks in the store, feel screwed, and move on to another game.

It's been quite clear from the very beginning that there was very little in the way of resources devoted to Defiance as it has slowly slid into complete dysfunction. This is all about a quick turn-over, someone at Trion clearly feels the game is dead and is changing the approach to a short term, high turnover business model. I sincerely doubt the dev team had any say in this..

I've heard through the grapevine that their other games, like Rift, are suffering too. Perhaps the developers putting in a model of their headquarters with an arkfall smashed into it (in SV area), is a sign of things to come for their company.

WiredRogue
08-06-2014, 10:01 AM
I dont get trions thought process when it comes to many things, especially the business side.

If my understanding of market economy is correct, you increase prices as demand increases. Since we know demand isn't increasing I can come to only one conclusion. They're actually trying to kill the game, cause ... well... I guess they could also be just plain idiots.

alred
08-06-2014, 11:18 AM
I've heard through the grapevine that their other games, like Rift, are suffering too. Perhaps the developers putting in a model of their headquarters with an arkfall smashed into it (in SV area), is a sign of things to come for their company.

I think part of it is that the market is getting saturated with F2P games. And if you can't keep up, you get buried. I think Trion is getting buried.

itgrowls
08-06-2014, 01:47 PM
If it's scapes this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. He's basically Anti-F2P on Archeage it was clear when they went from 1.0 to 1.2 in Archeage exactly what type of model he's using. If you ask him anything about it he'll deny it of course but he's absolutely against people playing any game for free. I'm going to go check out Rift forums to see if he's gotten his dirty little grubs on that game too to see if he's trying to change Rift's system.

Nefarious
08-06-2014, 02:01 PM
Yeah if you were only doing Ark Falls and getting 5 Ark Forge from each one it would take 100 Ark Falls.

Now add 10 Ark Forge from Chimera daily every day if you choose.

Then add spending Chimera rep to buy Ark Forge if you choose.

Now add the Ark Forge grated in the Dailey Reward from having the DLCs if you have them.

Now add the 50 Ark Forge from the Weekly Reward.

Then assume you get 20 to 50 Ark Forge from a couple of Lock Boxes using keys or from buying Rep Vendor Cache's.

Everyone is looking at the whole Ark Forge drop rate so singularly. Also have to take into account that because of Encryption that the use of upgrading gear has been cut. There are not nearly as many weapons or shields to upgrade as there once was before. So it makes sense to cut down on Ark Forge rewards since players are not going to need it as much as before.

Seizan
08-06-2014, 02:20 PM
Yeah if you where only doing Ark Falls and getting 5 Ark Forge from each one it would take 100 Ark Falls.

Now add 10 Ark Forge from Chimera daily every day if you choose.

Then add spending Chimera rep to buy Ark Forge if you choose.

Now add the Ark Forge grated in the Dailey Reward from having the DLCs if you have them.

Now add the 50 Ark Forge from the Weekly Reward.

Then assume you get 20 to 50 Ark Forge from a couple of Lock Boxes using keys or from buying Rep Vendor Cache's.

Everyone is looking at the whole Ark Forge drop rate so singularly. Also have to take into account that because of Encryption that the use of upgrading gear has been cut. There are not nearly as many weapons or shields to upgrade as there once was before. So it makes sense to cut down on Ark Forge rewards since players are not going to need it as much as before.

s.t.f.u

Go ahead and report me.

Bonehead
08-06-2014, 02:22 PM
So it makes sense to cut down on Ark Forge rewards since players are not going to need it as much as before.

Well yea because it's not for sale in the bit store or anything.... wait...

Fabiano Batista
08-06-2014, 02:27 PM
wanna see some math? ok few weeks ago i bought 100 T4 Lockbox... took me 6 days 4-5h/day farming...6.4M Salvage and 3.2M scrip...now it's gonna take 60 days to get 100 t4 =)

ConcreteSnake
08-06-2014, 02:32 PM
s.t.f.u

Go ahead and report me.

o he will, always on the side of trion, thats where my last 7 day ban came from....you know the thread you started and my comment was removed.

Nefarious
08-06-2014, 02:36 PM
s.t.f.u

Go ahead and report me.

Oh no, Nefarious is making sense again. "Troll Troll Nerfarious! Stop looking at everything as a whole! Narrow views only!"

And no, I don't report ppl.

Milkweed
08-06-2014, 02:41 PM
Oh no, Nefarious is making sense again. "Troll Troll Nerfarious! Stop looking at everything as a whole! Narrow views only!"

And no, I don't report ppl.

Oh yes, you do.

Raico Sansin
08-06-2014, 02:42 PM
Neffy boy has been working for the company doing damage control for a LONG time. I remember when we first started playing, he ALWAYS had gems like " You guys just need to be patient!!!" "This game isn't going to go F2P ANYTIME SOON!!!" and of course my favorite " This game is going to be on next gen system because of the high demand of QUALITY TITLES." Man you just gotta sit back and laugh at this guy. Keep cashing those checks neffy boy.

ConcreteSnake
08-06-2014, 02:43 PM
Yeah if you where only doing Ark Falls and getting 5 Ark Forge from each one it would take 100 Ark Falls.

Now add 10 Ark Forge from Chimera daily every day if you choose.

Then add spending Chimera rep to buy Ark Forge if you choose.

Now add the Ark Forge grated in the Dailey Reward from having the DLCs if you have them.

Now add the 50 Ark Forge from the Weekly Reward.

Then assume you get 20 to 50 Ark Forge from a couple of Lock Boxes using keys or from buying Rep Vendor Cache's.

Everyone is looking at the whole Ark Forge drop rate so singularly. Also have to take into account that because of Encryption that the use of upgrading gear has been cut. There are not nearly as many weapons or shields to upgrade as there once was before. So it makes sense to cut down on Ark Forge rewards since players are not going to need it as much as before.

most of my arkforge is spent on remastering weapons to get something useful and at 75 arkforge a pop that can add up quick. Now lets say i get 12 arkforge from a daily box, do chimera for 10 af, open 1 lockbox after playing for a few hours to get 64 keys and get 20 af (still havent seen a 50 drop in a T4) and earn 25 arkforge doing 5 major dark matter arkfalls, thats 67 arkforge for a few hours a game play and actually cant even reset 1 mastery on 1 weapon of the 5-15 i use on a daily basis. To anybody that doesnt already have 100 oj and good guns like i do it basically impossible to EARN the arkforge to even play with abilities theyvev given us in the salvage matrix. At the end of the day the reward they give me is not worth MY effort, therefor no reasone to play the game....the chase is over. Good luck on all your endevors Nef, keep the chase alive.

Nefarious
08-06-2014, 02:51 PM
most of my arkforge is spent on remastering weapons to get something useful and at 75 arkforge a pop that can add up quick. Now lets say i get 12 arkforge from a daily box, do chimera for 10 af, open 1 lockbox after playing for a few hours to get 64 keys and get 20 af (still havent seen a 50 drop in a T4) and earn 25 arkforge doing 5 major dark matter arkfalls, thats 67 arkforge for a few hours a game play and actually cant even reset 1 mastery on 1 weapon of the 5-15 i use on a daily basis. To anybody that doesnt already have 100 oj and good guns like i do it basically impossible to EARN the arkforge to even play with abilities theyvev given us in the salvage matrix. At the end of the day the reward they give me is not worth MY effort, therefor no reasone to play the game....the chase is over. Good luck on all your endevors Nef, keep the chase alive.

The chase was over when every player expected to earn the best versions of guns easily as it was before.

DeadEye68
08-06-2014, 03:11 PM
The chase was over when every player expected to earn the best versions of guns easily as it was before.

Still angry because they "broke" trading, preventing people from earning useless currency ?

ConcreteSnake
08-06-2014, 03:11 PM
The chase was over when every player expected to earn the best versions of guns easily as it was before.

I do not expect to earn the best version of every gun with no work. That being said I also don't want to have to play 6-10 events over the course of an hour to get just enough keys to open a T4 lockbox and receive 4 blues and a grenade. Just like when I played the warmaster, it was not about getting a legendary or the rewards, it was about how I felt after beating him. Now that he's pretty much impossible I just stopped going, the reward I received was not worth my effort. I actually like playing entire events and although sometimes I felt my reward was a little high and it could've been less, I do not think reducing rewards by 80% was a good change by any means. A reduction of 20%-50% would've been more reasonable. Is there any purpose to playing minor arkfalls or emergencies now? No I think not. I would've been ok with some change, but I had the rug pulled from underneath me. You may continue to assume what players want and need just like Trion does.....but I don't have to play a game that I don't feel rewarded by. I'm not asking for everything to be handed to me, I just don't want to work for half of minimum wage.

Raico Sansin
08-06-2014, 03:24 PM
I do not expect to earn the best version of every gun with no work. That being said I also don't want to have to play 6-10 events over the course of an hour to get just enough keys to open a T4 lockbox and receive 4 blues and a grenade. Just like when I played the warmaster, it was not about getting a legendary or the rewards, it was about how I felt after beating him. Now that he's pretty much impossible I just stopped going, the reward I received was not worth my effort. I actually like playing entire events and although sometimes I felt my reward was a little high and it could've been less, I do not think reducing rewards by 80% was a good change by any means. A reduction of 20%-50% would've been more reasonable. Is there any purpose to playing minor arkfalls or emergencies now? No I think not. I would've been ok with some change, but I had the rug pulled from underneath me. You may continue to assume what players want and need just like Trion does.....but I don't have to play a game that I don't feel rewarded by. I'm not asking for everything to be handed to me, I just don't want to work for half of minimum wage.
Sorry man, but you and your "Commonsense" are not wanted or needed here. We WANT a harder more fulfulling chase. I want lockboxes to cost 100 keys, and have a 20% chance to destroy the rarest weapon in your inventory. I want enemies that can steal your ego levels if you lose the event, and 1500 ego points sounds fair. The warmaster should be able to use stims and spikes, there are clans STILL out there able to beat him, this HAS GOT TO STOP. The game is TOO easy, like neffy said if you're playing EVERYDAY at least 10hrs a day this game is EASY as hell!!

DeadEye68
08-06-2014, 03:24 PM
Is there any purpose to playing minor arkfalls or emergencies now? No I think not.

It's not even a matter of opinion. As it stands now, emergencies will earn you only scrip but never even a single key. Minor arkfalls may earn you one or two keys but never any arkforge. Other activities will earn you half the keys and something like 1/4 to 1/3 arkforge they used to.

That's radical to the point it would make sense to remove the upgrade features (both rarity and ratings) and arkforge altogether. As it apparently seems, loot quantities has also been severely reduced which means lockboxes remain the only real option to gear yourself up. And those have become much harder to come by unless you're willing to grind ressources ... or buy them in the store.

The chase for gear has never been fulfilling in Defiance, but it always has been long.

One thing should be cleared here. We, long standing players, are the less hurt ones. All the F2P newcomers have been offered a pine cone to sit on and spin around.


I want enemies that can steal your ego levels if you lose the event, and 1500 ego points sounds fair

So basically after 4 failures you would have 0 EGO (well actually you would have negative EGO), and no way to gain any rating until further content is added ? Which means you couldn't use your gear anymore and would be screwed unless you kept your starter weapons and shield.

That's brilliant man.

Besides, a "longer" or "harder" chase is only fulfilling if there are some prospects for success ... which Defiance doesn't offer.

Rumeyes
08-06-2014, 03:36 PM
The chase was over when every player expected to earn the best versions of guns easily as it was before.

You are using the rarity nerf to try to justify the reward nerf? The flexibility of the upgrades created a system where endgame players could mold the perfect weapon which did a bit more damage.

The reward nerf makes it that any modifcations you want to make on your current weapons will be an intense grind. Whether it is upgrading EGO or rarity. You want to grind a full month to upgrade 1 weapon, enjoy.

And you know it's not about making "the chase" harder for us. It's about making us buy lockboxes and arkforge from the bitshop. Guess what? That just aint gonna happen, because the prices are too damn expensive.

You are trying real hard to make sense of something that isn't making any sense. Try again, please, because no, you aren't making any sense. This will effectively drive away players who were still grinding for weapons.

This change will throw us back in the time where a good blue is worth more then a bad OJ. Is upgrading a few purples worth the grind for me now? I guess I will go back to trying to get lucky on a good OJ on T4 boxes.

Will it make me buy more from the itemshop? Hell no. I will just log on to do my pursuits and log off. Probably to the point that I don't care anymore, don't log on to do them and finally uninstall Defiance alltogether.

P.S.: It also increases the gap between the haves and have-nots with all their unicorn OJ's.

Nefarious
08-06-2014, 03:36 PM
I do not expect to earn the best version of every gun with no work. That being said I also don't want to have to play 6-10 events over the course of an hour to get just enough keys to open a T4 lockbox and receive 4 blues and a grenade. Just like when I played the warmaster, it was not about getting a legendary or the rewards, it was about how I felt after beating him. Now that he's pretty much impossible I just stopped going, the reward I received was not worth my effort. I actually like playing entire events and although sometimes I felt my reward was a little high and it could've been less, I do not think reducing rewards by 80% was a good change by any means. A reduction of 20%-50% would've been more reasonable. Is there any purpose to playing minor arkfalls or emergencies now? No I think not. I would've been ok with some change, but I had the rug pulled from underneath me. You may continue to assume what players want and need just like Trion does.....but I don't have to play a game that I don't feel rewarded by. I'm not asking for everything to be handed to me, I just don't want to work for half of minimum wage.

For the War Master they introduced to be able to port to clan member. Along with clan message of the day popping up when users sign on. All the tools for being able to rally and kill the WM are there. Easy as a Clan Message of the day saying "8pm est Warmaster" and when the time comes a Clan Officer can post a clan message saying "WM Port on me".

The days of expecting to go in with randoms and just easily zerging the WM for a Win are over.

And nothing says that Minor Ark Falls or Emergency rewards are not subject to change. And the reason as it to do them is to rank up Clan Rating which add %s towards over all rewards.

Eugenitor
08-06-2014, 03:37 PM
One thing should be cleared here. We, long standing players, are the less hurt ones. All the F2P newcomers have been offered a pine cone to sit on and spin around.

This, right here. It's to the point where I (EGO 3726) literally do not want to level up. I'll play PVP because the fun hasn't been sucked out of that yet (And with most of the veterans gone, it's a lot easier!), but I really do not want to increase my EGO, because I just can't afford to keep my weapons at my rating. I'm glad I don't use OJs; purples are bad enough. My principal PVP weapon is actually green. Don't really want to upgrade it- not enough Arkforge, and it'd make keeping my semi-good stuff at my rating nearly impossible. Gambling with 75 Arkforge to try to reroll stats? Maybe when (if) I get to max level!

No, Trion, I will not be paying you money to do the things I was able to do before. Instead, I informed my friend (who played until about EGO 800 then stopped) that the game had gone full P2W and that he was right for leaving. You're not getting rewarded for pulling this.

Rumeyes
08-06-2014, 03:46 PM
For the War Master they introduced to be able to port to clan member. Along with clan message of the day popping up when users sign on. All the tools for being able to rally and kill the WM are there.

If this is your definition of a raid interface you must be easily satisfied. I guess you like to take it, huh?



And the reason as it to do them is to rank up Clan Rating which add %s towards over all rewards.

That's the best reason you can come up with? If that is the only incentive, once clan rating is maxed, nobody will go there.

Overtkill21
08-06-2014, 03:46 PM
... And the reason as it to do them is to rank up Clan Rating which add %s towards over all rewards.

You mean like that +1 Keycode Clan Rating reward that no longer works?

Deunan
08-06-2014, 03:51 PM
The game is TOO easy, like neffy said if you're playing EVERYDAY at least 10hrs a day this game is EASY as hell!!If you're playing any game 10 hours a day you have more serious issues to contend with. If that's the profile of the average player that Trion wants for their games then their consumer base is going to atrophy and the company will fold. In point of fact that is the exact opposite of what Trion wants. They want consumers that have limited play time but deep pockets so they will purchase items at the Bit Store to make up for lost time. But to retain those players they also need to keep concurrency numbers up. In general the casual player base dwarfs the min/maxer hardcore player base so only an idiot would implement a business plan designed to alienate the former.

Raico Sansin
08-06-2014, 03:53 PM
It's not even a matter of opinion. As it stands now, emergencies will earn you only scrip but never even a single key. Minor arkfalls may earn you one or two keys but never any arkforge. Other activities will earn you half the keys and something like 1/4 to 1/3 arkforge they used to.

That's radical to the point it would make sense to remove the upgrade features (both rarity and ratings) and arkforge altogether. As it apparently seems, loot quantities has also been severely reduced which means lockboxes remain the only real option to gear yourself up. And those have become much harder to come by unless you're willing to grind ressources ... or buy them in the store.

The chase for gear has never been fulfilling in Defiance, but it always has been long.

One thing should be cleared here. We, long standing players, are the less hurt ones. All the F2P newcomers have been offered a pine cone to sit on and spin around.



So basically after 4 failures you would have 0 EGO (well actually you would have negative EGO), and no way to gain any rating until further content is added ? Which means you couldn't use your gear anymore and would be screwed unless you kept your started weapons and shield.

That's brilliant man.

Besides, a "longer" or "harder" chase is only fulfilling if there are some prospects for success ... which Defiance doesn't offer.

I know that **** is hot fire, I got others. Like nano's on weapons should have a finite amount. Lets say only the first 500 bullets are nano, then you have to find refills, or go to the cash shop. Also shields shouldn't be able to recharge, that's WAY OP. So after you deplete your shield you have to charge it by..........wait for it...........wait for it................................................ ....................................CASH SHOP BTICHES!!!!! We could end fast travel, make vehicles only have so much fuel, make it possible for you to be attacked while your logged of and not playing, the possiblities are ENDLESS for how we could upgrade this GAME BAY-BEE!!!!

Eugenitor
08-06-2014, 03:55 PM
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/215525059_v6MX2-L-2.jpg

Nefarious
08-06-2014, 04:00 PM
If this is your definition of a raid interface you must be easily satisfied. I guess you like to take it, huh?




That's the best reason you can come up with? If that is the only incentive, once clan rating is maxed, nobody will go there.

Trion has expressed that they don't want to bar public events. So yeah that's the best Defiance is going to get for a raid interface. Players wanted to be able to Clan Raid the WM and Trion met the means to do so.

And how many clans are max rating? Not many.

And as far as clan rewards go are they lack luster considering the current system? Obviously. They used to add a little to a lot. Now they just add a little to a little. But everyone talks in absolutes as if none of this stuff is subject to change. For something like Ark Forge % to be added to clan rewards or as if things that are currently broken are never going to get looked into to be fixed.

Rumeyes
08-06-2014, 04:15 PM
Players wanted to be able to Clan Raid the WM and Trion met the means to do so.

You say that as if the WM works just fine. The Warmaster is wonky at best. Having an option to be able to TP on a clanmate changes nothing. I have most of the regulars in my clan in my friendslist. TP on clan wont make me do WM more.


For something like Ark Forge % to be added to clan rewards or as if things that are currently broken are never going to get looked into or fixed.

How many clans aren't max rating? Not many of the bigger ones.

There are several items that are broken since launch and apparently are never going to get looked into or fixed. I am sure in my clan there are a LOT more knowledgable people.

Everyone talks in absolutes because we have seen from experience over the duration of Defiance's existence change does not come easy, when it comes, it's not always for the best and feel like a lesser of 2 evils, can break more then it fixes, and when it fixes something, it might have already been too late because communication has been so ****ty, damage has already been done.

Spyderdragon
08-06-2014, 04:17 PM
http://youtu.be/ZSM3w1v-A_Y

BJWyler
08-06-2014, 04:22 PM
Hey Trion, I really hope you have a calculator handy b/c at the rate you guys are going your going to need one. So lets do some math.

Since this INGENIOUS update I have consistently got around 8 Keys and 5 ArkForge from Dark Matter Arkfalls(Almost that exact same every time).

I want to LvL up JUST ONE GUN to legendary. AT this rate I would have to do 100 Dark Matter Arkfalls to do it.

Cost of Upgrading to Legendary = 500 Arkforge

500/5 = 100 Arkfalls (For ONE Gun!!!)

Now there is an alternate route I can take... It involves cold hard cash. $20.00 to be exact.

$20 = 1600 Bits = 500 Arkforge = 1 Purple to Legendary Upgrade(For 1 Gun)

This is only one example of how the game mechanics went from decent to holy-crap crazy. You guys must Really REALLY need money or you just happened to make "Another Mistake."

Which leads me to my next point, who in your whole entire building of insanely genius people didn't do the math that was just discussed here? If this was intended and the math behind this was done, it verifies that you all are completely insane if you expect me to pay that much or grind that much for 1 Legendary gun upgrade.

Not to mention all the guns that I have that are perfectly rolled LVL 3000-ish that id love to take to my current LvL(5700+). In reality there is no point in LvL-ing up a gun with Arkforge b/c it would take me a ******* year.

I really hope this post doesn't get wiped out b/c iv'e been bad and insulted anyone(Trion) but people need to really think about the time involved here with just a few examples of how screwed this game got within the course of just 10 hrs.

I would love to hear other peoples opinions on this matter.

Don't forget the joke that is the million scrip lockbox. I have been playing since the third or fourth week of the game's release and only have 4.7 million scrip to my name. The only extraneous stuff I have purchased with scrip has been a few more rollers when they were on sale.

Why on God's Green Earth would I ever consider spending nearly 1/4 of my total worth on a freakin' RNG lockbox when history has shown that most of the time it is pure garbage that you end up getting?


I'm pretty sure they already know the veterans are being driven off by this last patch. They don't get money from us so they don't care.

Funny thing is, I am more than willing to throw money at this game. I haven't bought any bits since my initial purchase over a year ago simply because there is nothing that I want to buy, and hasn't been for a long while. No sense in buying bits if there is absolutely nothing worth spending the money on. And forcing me into buying bits to make playing the game a bit less painful or grindy is the absolute way to ensure I never spend another dime on this game.

Bonehead
08-06-2014, 04:33 PM
The idea isn't to get anyone to actually buy one. They are in the game so they can keep up the pretense of not being P2W.
Like Scapes said, there is an "opportunity" for a "dedicated" player to get one if they want. Otherwise...

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/2014-08-05_00005_zps45c97e5d.jpg

CrimsonFire
08-06-2014, 04:35 PM
I'm pretty sure they already know the veterans are being driven off by this last patch. They don't get money from us so they don't care.

This new model is all about creating relative (artificial) value for luck-boxes so new, short-term players can dump 20 bucks in the store, feel screwed, and move on to another game.

It's been quite clear from the very beginning that there was very little in the way of resources devoted to Defiance as it has slowly slid into complete dysfunction. This is all about a quick turn-over, someone at Trion clearly feels the game is dead and is changing the approach to a short term, high turnover business model. I sincerely doubt the dev team had any say in this..

I'm quoting you Ruinne so others will have another opportunity to read what you have typed. Hopefully others will read this and not waste anymore time on this game. Your words were clear, consise, & well said.

N3gativeCr33p
08-06-2014, 05:15 PM
You have Silicon Valley. Be glad!

Silicon Valley is good but it's not that good. From what I saw last night/this morning it should be called Emergency Island. Best thing that happened was randomly finding two Restless Dead locations.

Blu
08-06-2014, 05:15 PM
Someone who works all day or goes to school and just wants to kick thier shoes off for a couple of hours have a big shock coming, .

this would be me, moved into a diff job, its outside, florida summer heat, fk lames and nerfs / changes within a already dead/dieing horse..

ConcreteSnake
08-06-2014, 05:26 PM
One more month guys. Then we abandon this game and go to destiny. Imagine no more crashes? I can't wait!!!!

13 days for Diablo III ultimate evil edition on consoles, I'm going to where I know I will be REWARDED for my EFFORTS.

N3gativeCr33p
08-06-2014, 05:51 PM
13 days for Diablo III ultimate evil edition on consoles, I'm going to where I know I will be REWARDED for my EFFORTS.

NICE!

:thumbsup:

Tornad0s
08-06-2014, 06:38 PM
I play for roughly 10 hours a day so I'm not too worried about the key/arkforge debacle but the new and f2p people have get a very steep hill and learning curve to climb.

Someone who works all day or goes to school and just wants to kick thier shoes off for a couple of hours have a big shock coming, and on top of that they're expected to visit the bits store for thier wants. Yes they may get fooled once but they'll take a look at what they've got and go elsewhere.

Yes. i think the same. I'm playing 2 days a week, so how you think trion i can get good weapon? It was almost impossible before patch. Now this is joke, real impossible. They just killed my interest to this game. EPIC FAIL

430005
08-07-2014, 12:05 AM
I'm playing 2 days a week, so how you think trion i can get good weapon?

Buy arkforge from the itemshop for $20,- a weapon. Problem solved.

drackiller
08-07-2014, 01:04 AM
13 days for Diablo III ultimate evil edition on consoles, I'm going to where I know I will be REWARDED for my EFFORTS.

Reaper of souls it`s just more of the same from the original Diablo3, doing the same all over again just bores me...
Wait, that`s what i`ve been doing here for way more than an year long ;)

I bought Sacred3 two days ago, it doesn`t compare to Sacred2 but it`s ok. They tried to make Sacred3 more like Diablo3.

430005
08-08-2014, 12:33 AM
Wait, that`s what i`ve been doing here for way more than an year long ;)

Admit it, Defiance wasnt THAT bad prenerf. It just had a lot of stuff that needed fixing.

PVP, WM, now this?

drackiller
08-08-2014, 12:41 AM
Admit it, Defiance wasnt THAT bad prenerf. It just had a lot of stuff that needed fixing.

PVP, WM, now this?
If the game wasn`t fun i wouldn`t be playing it till this momment. But that will to play as dwindled very much.

430005
08-08-2014, 03:28 AM
But that will to play as dwindled very much.

Hmm, say what?

Silicon Valley
08-08-2014, 09:03 AM
Yes. i think the same. I'm playing 2 days a week, so how you think trion i can get good weapon? It was almost impossible before patch. Now this is joke, real impossible. They just killed my interest to this game. EPIC FAIL

This, right here. +1

Dukhat
08-08-2014, 09:30 AM
Yep the game is dead for me now, I am sad I bought the game & liked it ..

430005
08-08-2014, 12:23 PM
Yep the game is dead for me now, I am sad I bought the game & liked it ..

Lets see what they have to say first.. Soon (TM) :(

430005
08-08-2014, 01:54 PM
Trion doesn't need math. Increasing some percentages works just fine:

Including less trash loot in general and more value for high tier lockboxes. (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?170929-An-update-on-the-recent-reward-changes)

JoshuaIsHere
08-10-2014, 04:44 AM
Yep the game is dead for me now, I am sad I bought the game & liked it ..

Sad to see you go.

I am sure with the new changes the math for Arkforge will change drastically :)

SilverWF
08-10-2014, 05:14 AM
Yes. i think the same. I'm playing 2 days a week, so how you think trion i can get good weapon?

In Trion's logic: buy everything in the shop

430005
08-12-2014, 05:51 AM
In Trion's logic: buy everything in the shop

Which everyone sees will have the direct opposite effect.

Happyfeet
08-12-2014, 06:34 AM
I can not get enough arkforge to keep my weapons up :(

430005
08-12-2014, 11:18 PM
I can not get enough arkforge to keep my weapons up :(

As calculated and with new nerfs to T2 and T3 lockboxes (which you didnt get easily anyway) it just becomes harder and less enjoyable to chase specific weapons. I'm not sure what's fulfilling about that?

Bonehead
08-13-2014, 12:59 AM
I can not get enough arkforge to keep my weapons up :(

That's what the friendly neighborhood bit store is for friend!
Fast and friendly service day or night!
Buy some bits today, and tell 'em Jim sent ya!

WanWhiteWolf
08-13-2014, 01:14 AM
I've been playing for about 3 weeks now. Not sure how it was before but with the current game mechanics you cannot use the upgrade rarity perk in the salvage matrix. It's useless. I haven't spend a single arkforge since I started and I have 204 as we speak (EGO 2000). So basically I could upgrade one item from blue to purple after 3 weeks of gamming.

As for items.... I am currently wearing a white SMG. It has a good roll but not worth upgrading since in 200-300 ego it will be obsolete. The scaling difference is to big; You can use an item 2-3 hours.

Also, the 10 min/ mod makes me rarely spend resources on modding. It takes less time to master a weapon than the time needed to create the mods for it.

So now I am just hoarding resources since there is nothing that I can spend them on. Which is kinda hilarious since Trion made this patch with the intent to loose players' resources.

The rewards for the arkfals are a joke. I tested this with a friend. I made double resources and items while killing random mobs while he was doing a major arkfall. He got 2 arkforges more than me (I didn't get any) , but I got double resources from everything else (script,keys, salvage stuff, green/blue items).

duction
08-13-2014, 01:19 AM
I've been playing for about 3 weeks now. Not sure how it was before but with the current game mechanics you cannot use the upgrade rarity perk in the salvage matrix. It's useless. I haven't spend a single arkforge since I started and I have 204 as we speak (EGO 2000). So basically I could upgrade one item from blue to purple after 3 weeks of gamming.

As for items.... I am currently wearing a white SMG. It has a good roll but not worth upgrading since in 200-300 ego it will be obsolete. The scaling difference is to big; You can use an item 2-3 hours.

Also, the 10 min/ mod makes me rarely spend resources on modding. It takes less time to master a weapon than the time needed to create the mods for it.

So now I am just hoarding resources since there is nothing that I can spend them on. Which is kinda hilarious since Trion made this patch with the intent to loose players' resources.

The rewards for the arkfals are a joke. I tested this with a friend. I made double resources and items while killing random mobs while he was doing a major arkfall. He got 2 arkforges more than me (I didn't get any) , but I got double resources from everything else (script,keys, salvage stuff, green/blue items).

Before we used to pull in around 40 - 50 arkforge a major arkfall and Warmaster.

Dinova
08-13-2014, 01:19 AM
I have no idea what i've been doing (i do have patron btw), but i had over 1500 by now.

Spent a load (blue->purple) and now still going around 400ish that i have left.

Though im only 1400ish EGO atm, but i gues the price of upgrades is the same across the board?
I now decided to safe em up (else i have to keep rating upgrading them), now at 486 :)

I never realy check how many i get or what i do, i mostly do those timed defend A/B/C things.

Tsort
08-13-2014, 01:27 AM
Lets Do Some MATH!

Defiance minus me for three months equals fun.

WanWhiteWolf
08-13-2014, 02:44 AM
Before we used to pull in around 40 - 50 arkforge a major arkfall and Warmaster.

I am pretty sure there is no similar reward in game right now.I think I got 11 arkforges when reaching 200k score with first place at a 11 stage Volge siege. But considering my level / gear, this does not happen often.


I have no idea what i've been doing (i do have patron btw), but i had over 1500 by now.

Spent a load (blue->purple) and now still going around 400ish that i have left.

Though im only 1400ish EGO atm, but i gues the price of upgrades is the same across the board?
I now decided to safe em up (else i have to keep rating upgrading them), now at 486 :)

I never realy check how many i get or what i do, i mostly do those timed defend A/B/C things.

Maybe you got it before the patch. I finished the storyline and did (I think) all the events that grant "bonus". Nothing gets you a reward that is worth fighting for. It's more like "I don't have anything better to do" and its more enjoyable fighting alone other people, rather than mobbing alone.

Off-topic: When I am in large groups, everyone seems to have the same appearance. Is it something from my settings or the server cannot handle that much diversity per square meter and sets the appearance of everyone as default?

Amun Ra
08-13-2014, 02:47 AM
everyone should just uninstall until Trion realizes just how badly they screwed up the game with this patch.I have uninstalled.

Tsort
08-13-2014, 04:36 AM
Off-topic: When I am in large groups, everyone seems to have the same appearance. Is it something from my settings or the server cannot handle that much diversity per square meter and sets the appearance of everyone as default?
Second option. We call him General Steve.

430005
08-13-2014, 10:45 AM
Is it something from my settings or the server cannot handle that much diversity per square meter and sets the appearance of everyone as default?

In video settings there should be a slider called "Proxy Memory", try maxing it and see if it works.

Happyfeet
08-14-2014, 12:30 AM
That's what the friendly neighborhood bit store is for friend!

This game has no content to spend money on. I will just pick up another weapon and use that.

430005
08-14-2014, 03:58 AM
This game has no content to spend money on.

Defiance never had endgame content. Well, if you consider WM endgame content. Either way, what I find a problem is that they killed off the pasttime of a lot of endgame players and make it near impossible for new players to find, upgrade and keep up good weapons.

No matter that they will introduce "jackpot" weapons, it disregards the fact everything else has been nerfed to death. Tryin should be able to see that.

Happyfeet
08-14-2014, 08:25 AM
what I find a problem is that they killed off the pasttime of a lot of endgame players and make it near impossible for new players to find, upgrade and keep up good weapons.

So the pricing on arkforge in the bitshop isn't a problem for you? It's a tad expensive :(

drackiller
08-14-2014, 08:29 AM
So the pricing on arkforge in the bitshop isn't a problem for you? It's a tad expensive :(

I think you completely missed is point m8...but i could be wrong.

430005
08-14-2014, 09:05 AM
So the pricing on arkforge in the bitshop isn't a problem for you?

Regardless if pricing of Arkforge is too expensive, the whole reward nerf works counterproductive for playing Defiance. But yes, high prices in the cashshop don't help either. Especially if the whole point of the change was to get more people to buy from said cashshop. Who's spending $20,- on that?

N3gativeCr33p
08-14-2014, 09:12 AM
Who's spending $20,- on that?

http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/whale-parts.jpg

430005
08-15-2014, 01:35 AM
http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/whale-parts.jpg

If you go ever to a casino, you should check how whales are treated. Tryin is just laughing at their customers and kicking them around. If you do the math, you see it doesn't add up.

430005
08-16-2014, 02:42 AM
So Trick did a livestream (http://www.twitch.tv/trionworlds/b/558498035) and it seems the calculations you made when you play casual became worse!

Go figure :)

Happyfeet
08-18-2014, 04:18 AM
it seems the calculations you made when you play casual became worse!

They increased the rewards! Hah! In your face!

430005
08-18-2014, 10:30 AM
They increased the rewards! Hah! In your face!

Decrease of 10x, then doubling arkforge, still makes it a 5x decrease.
I guess that "In your face!" still counts. Not that it makes me happy.

pokerman
08-21-2014, 10:33 PM
Well even if they never fix this. The servers will be better on the 9th of sept when no one will be on them. Because we will all be on destiny

430005
08-22-2014, 03:34 AM
The servers will be better on the 9th of sept when no one will be on them.

I said it before, Destiny wont kill Defiance, Defiance is killing Defiance, making transition easier.

EdlionHeart
08-22-2014, 05:50 AM
We all know that games are made to make money and not fun for players. I don't blame who make a game wanna get money from it, its fair and ok in my opinion. But sometimes they really abuse of the way to get it.

I agree with ABCjohnson123.