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View Full Version : Intentionally Killing Defiance.



Altras
08-09-2014, 09:26 AM
Sad but unfortunately I think its true. Maybe not on a lower dev level, but via marketing or cooperate heads. Season 2 of the show is coming close to an end, and with Trion putting all their lunch money into Archeage, why would they want to keep Defiance alive? Neutering everything that was right with defiance is going to drive people away from the game. But wait, we have another newer game you should try! All part of the plan if you ask me. I think at this point they're loosing money keeping Defiance servers up than actually making a few bucks. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this game, but from launch to now, seems the focus has shifted drastically.

How to fix this? Get a new director who has experience.

Etaew
08-09-2014, 09:30 AM
The development teams that work on the other games are budgeted and staffed separately. They are not trying to kill the game, it is their livelihood. These kind of posts only serve to put off newer players browsing the forums.

If Defiance ever closes it does not mean that these people will start playing Archeage. They are two completely different styles and genres of games so that line of thinking is flawed.

drackiller
08-09-2014, 09:33 AM
The development teams that work on the other games are budgeted and staffed separately. They are not trying to kill the game, it is their livelihood. These kind of posts only serve to put off newer players browsing the forums.

If Defiance ever closes it does not mean that these people will start playing Archeage. They are two completely different styles and genres of games so that line of thinking is flawed.

I agree with you on this Etaew, but you also have to agree that the business management of this game is completely waked.

Etaew
08-09-2014, 09:37 AM
I agree with you on this Etaew, but you also have to agree that the business management of this game is completely waked.

Oh for sure, I have issues with the monetization and design structure of the game but we are all consumers of the game and not in any position to affect any real change. The development team will take the game in a direction that they feel is in the best interests of the game, and people playing it will either accept it or reject it and move on. It's the circle of gaming life.

drackiller
08-09-2014, 09:41 AM
Oh for sure, I have issues with the monetization and design structure of the game but we are all consumers of the game and not in any position to affect any real change. The development team will take the game in a direction that they feel is in the best interests of the game, and people playing it will either accept it or reject it and move on. It's the circle of gaming life.

Yup, that`s right, but it`s also their loss when they alienate a big portion of it`s player base, portion of players that have financed this game from the start and are at the momment being mistreated.

Altras
08-09-2014, 09:43 AM
It's the circle of gaming life.

While true, there are many things that could bring more life to the game. Simple changes in the bit store that you mentioned in your "Bit Marketing" post, removing phases so the game seems more populated, and bringing back the damage scores (wont happen) are just a few things that could help instead of hurt. One thing that I've noticed too, is that Silicon Valley didn't bring players back.

Etaew
08-09-2014, 09:46 AM
One thing that I've noticed too, is that Silicon Valley didn't bring players back.

Indeed, there is nothing meaningful to do there at the moment outside of the short mission line. Free to Play bought a lot of people back, and with F2P coming to PS3 soon, and XBOX after that the dev team really does need to now think about retention.

konstantinov
08-09-2014, 09:49 AM
Is it a public trading company?

Belle Starr
08-09-2014, 10:04 AM
Sad but unfortunately I think its true. Maybe not on a lower dev level, but via marketing or cooperate heads. Season 2 of the show is coming close to an end, and with Trion putting all their lunch money into Archeage, why would they want to keep Defiance alive? Neutering everything that was right with defiance is going to drive people away from the game. But wait, we have another newer game you should try! All part of the plan if you ask me. I think at this point they're loosing money keeping Defiance servers up than actually making a few bucks. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this game, but from launch to now, seems the focus has shifted drastically.

How to fix this? Get a new director who has experience.

If that is their intention, it won't work with me! I didn't play Rifts, and I won't be playing Archeage, especially at the sacrifice of Defiance! Plus, a fantasy setting is not a science fiction one, so why kill one genre for the sake of another? :(

DeadEye68
08-09-2014, 01:20 PM
I agree with you on this Etaew, but you also have to agree that the business management of this game is completely waked.

More than anything else, it leaves you wondering if there's any form of planning involved. There have been so many moment-to-moment decisions applied without any visible form of analysis for potential consequences one has to wonder if there is any plan.

cuba 666
08-09-2014, 01:39 PM
The development teams that work on the other games are budgeted and staffed separately. They are not trying to kill the game, it is their livelihood. These kind of posts only serve to put off newer players browsing the forums.

If Defiance ever closes it does not mean that these people will start playing Archeage. They are two completely different styles and genres of games so that line of thinking is flawed.
What is your backpack inventory....?...I know mine is 3744..... For almost a year ...I spend serious money...again you suppose to have completely knowledge of the game and you have to be off you mind supporting this crap over and over.....I got to lose....you maybe are getting freebies by Trion but I guess that's me speculating,...!!!????

DeadEye68
08-09-2014, 01:45 PM
What is your backpack inventory....?...I know mine is 3744..... For almost a year ...I spend serious money...again you suppose to have completely knowledge of the game and you have to be off you mind supporting this crap over and over.....I got to lose....you maybe are getting freebies by Trion but I guess that's me speculating,...!!!????

Ehm, what's exactly your logic here ?

You spent a lot of money, so you know more ?

konstantinov
08-09-2014, 01:46 PM
What is your backpack inventory....?...I know mine is 3744..... For almost a year ...I spend serious money...again you suppose to have completely knowledge of the game and you have to be off you mind supporting this crap over and over.....I got to lose....you maybe are getting freebies by Trion but I guess that's me speculating,...!!!????

How many times do you have to mass breakdown if you're breaking down for salvage? I'm pretty certain you hard freeze every time you try.

DeadEye68
08-09-2014, 01:48 PM
How many times do you have to mass breakdown if you're breaking down for salvage? I'm pretty certain you hard freeze every time you try.

Oh, you've got that problem on consoles too ?

PC game client closes down whenever you try to sell or breakdown more than 90-100 items at a time.

cuba 666
08-09-2014, 01:52 PM
How many times do you have to mass breakdown if you're breaking down for salvage? I'm pretty certain you hard freeze every time you try.

Hell yeah everytime...I sell or salvage but I'm okay with that.....but now with all this changes I don't know why need my inventory....

Nefarious
08-09-2014, 02:20 PM
If they wanted Defiance dead then they wouldn't go about fixing over powered weapons or other features in the game.

We would still have quick charge 1 shot kill anything-not named Volge Viscera-from any distance-100% accurate hip fire-Surge Bolters if they didn't care.

Cloak would of never gotten fixed if they didn't care.

They wouldn't even bother with Twitch streams if they didn't care.

They would of never brought lead cast members from the show for a personalized Q&A session live on Twitch and having them answer our questions (no matter how crazy some of those Qs might of been) if they didn't care.

They wouldn't of giving a **** about bringing Charlie back if they didn't care..

They wouldn't of giving a **** about going back and fixing Charlie to make him look like his old self after bringing him back in the first place if they didn't care.

All kinds of Dev's wouldn't chime in to explain why certain things were changed to be like this, or that, or whatever if they didn't care.

Dev's would of never chime in to give thoughts on the latest TV episode in any of those threads discussing them if they didn't care.

Kiwi wouldn't bother of getting a new gif image of a bird for every one of her posts if she didn't care.

Scapes would never nerd out with us or make sure the Hellbug plush is balanced on his shoulder during live streams if he didn't care.

Trick or Phantasie wouldn't bother of showing up to past community events held if they didn't care. Sidenote: the community events they have showed up in have started in the morning Est time. They are on the west cost so they woke up and got out of bed early to jump on to play and say hi.

So yeah, considering all this which is just some stuff off the top of my head that Ive noticed I think the Defiance Dev team have shown to care.

DeadEye68
08-09-2014, 03:00 PM
Defiance will die anyway ... someday. All games do sooner or later. They obviously work on keeping the game afloat, maybe not the way we want them to, but then again ... we're not the ones making the game.

I see no underlying plan to hasten Defiance's demise at work on Trion's side. That being said, I'm not paranoid. May explain a bit.

Smeejo
08-09-2014, 04:22 PM
I think what a lot of people need to remember is while yes the changes they made in 2.2 suck they are apart of a bigger plan. Phantasie has already stated on here that they are doing things WE have requested like better loot and more drops. The issue is if they just throw it in willy nillly the hole game becomes drastically imballanced. This way, yes it is annoying but in the long run it will get better.

Source: http://www.defiancedata.com/page.php?id=310

(not sure where original post is so Etaew's DD thread is easier to find for me lol)

Carnak
08-09-2014, 04:32 PM
Season 2 of the show is coming close to an end, and with Trion putting all their lunch money into Archeage, why would they want to keep Defiance alive?

Trion are publishing Archeage (for western markets), not developing it. Yes some resources would be going into that. And that's perfectly sensible. From a business perspective Archeage probably represents Trion's best chance of making money.

That said few MMO developers actually close down games even when they're not making lots of money.

1) There's PR to consider. Closing a game smacks of failure.

2) Profit is profit. Even if a game is only making a tiny amount of money, provided that more than covers the cost of running it, why toss it away? Only makes sense for hugely profitable developers like NCSoft with multiple big earners.

I would bet heavily against Defiance closing down any time soon - especially if Archeage succeeds.


Neutering everything that was right with defiance is going to drive people away from the game. ..... Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this game, but from launch to now, seems the focus has shifted drastically.

Alternate point of view.

Defiance bombed. That means not everything was right with the game at launch. It therefore makes perfect sense to try to change what was wrong.

Admittedly it's not quite that straightforward. The niche crowd who liked the original game (eg. you) may not like those changes and will protest. For Trion though it's a matter of risking the one bird in the hand versus the thousand in the bush.

Personally I think Trion made a few monumental mistakes which really dragged the game down. This free expansion looks mildly intriguing and may be a small step in the right direction. Enough for me to ferret around on the forums for more info. But it doesn't look like those changes go far enough for me to actually check out the new content.

At least I'm still enjoying the show.

Kyosji
08-09-2014, 04:34 PM
I think what a lot of people need to remember is while yes the changes they made in 2.2 suck they are apart of a bigger plan. Phantasie has already stated on here that they are doing things WE have requested like better loot and more drops. The issue is if they just throw it in willy nillly the hole game becomes drastically imballanced. This way, yes it is annoying but in the long run it will get better.

Source: http://www.defiancedata.com/page.php?id=310

(not sure where original post is so Etaew's DD thread is easier to find for me lol)

Where is the 'more drops'? Since this patch, I am getting a tenth of what I usually do. I still have yet to have anything but white weapons (and VERY FEW) drop from actual mobs. Only time I see anything else that white drop are after an ark fall stage ends, or as a reward from an event, and those are usually just greens.

Smeejo
08-09-2014, 04:34 PM
Where is the 'more drops'? Since this patch, I am getting a tenth of what I usually do. I still have yet to have anything but white weapons (and VERY FEW) drop from actual mobs. Only time I see anything else that white drop are after an ark fall stage ends, or as a reward from an event, and those are usually just greens.

The new drop system hasn't been implemented yet. If you read the post I linked it explains it. They had to take precautions to prevent and imbalance BEFORE making the changes to the drop system.

There's also the issue of the creators no longer being with the game anymore which means things ARE going to change compared to how it was at launch. Believe I read that in another thread here somewhere...

*looks at Etaew* right?

lol

Holy Bahamut3
08-09-2014, 04:36 PM
I think what a lot of people need to remember is while yes the changes they made in 2.2 suck they are apart of a bigger plan. Phantasie has already stated on here that they are doing things WE have requested like better loot and more drops. The issue is if they just throw it in willy nillly the hole game becomes drastically imballanced. This way, yes it is annoying but in the long run it will get better.

Source: http://www.defiancedata.com/page.php?id=310

(not sure where original post is so Etaew's DD thread is easier to find for me lol)

Yes but their idea of the better loot is blue rairity. The plan is to make loot so scarce everyone will just pick up and use stuff lying around. Like in borderlands and other MMOs.

To the original question are they intentionally killing Defiance? No

Are they trying to force out the Vets? Yep

They are once again altering the entire game. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they devalued our entire inventory again, just to force us into their new "Woot Loot! Chase. If you think they won't they have before without consideration or remorse.

Kyosji
08-09-2014, 04:39 PM
Where is the 'more drops'? Since this patch, I am getting a tenth of what I usually do. I still have yet to have anything but white weapons (and VERY FEW) drop from actual mobs. Only time I see anything else that white drop are after an ark fall stage ends, or as a reward from an event, and those are usually just greens.


And when I say a tenth of what was dropping before, that doesn't mean weapons, I get less than a tenth of what I used to of those (6-10 whites after 3,000 mobs), but I get so little in ammo, stims, and spikes. Only thing that seems normal is salvage and scrip

Retsopmi
08-09-2014, 04:40 PM
Yes but their idea of the better loot is blue rairity. The plan is to make loot so scarce everyone will just pick up and use stuff lying around. Like in borderlands and other MMOs.

To the original question are they intentionally killing Defiance? No

Are they trying to force out the Vets? Yep

They are once again altering the entire game. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they devalued our entire inventory again, just to force us into their new "Woot Loot! Chase. If you think they won't they have before without consideration or remorse.

If they would of listened to the beta testers and made a better loot system at the start, they wouldn't have to change it now. But they didn't.

Smeejo
08-09-2014, 04:41 PM
And when I say a tenth of what was dropping before, that doesn't mean weapons, I get less than a tenth of what I used to of those (6-10 whites after 3,000 mobs), but I get so little in ammo, stims, and spikes. Only thing that seems normal is salvage and scrip

I can't speak to that part of it. I get more ammo, stims, and spikes then I know what to do with. My only issue with the drops so far is Grenades. I'm constantly running out faster then I can replenish them lol.

Kyosji
08-09-2014, 04:47 PM
I can't speak to that part of it. I get more ammo, stims, and spikes then I know what to do with. My only issue with the drops so far is Grenades. I'm constantly running out faster then I can replenish them lol.


Yeah, I used to never ever have an issue finding this stuff. I have all available ego's to loot and ammo drops maxed and enabled, I used to always have max greenades/spikes/stims, and had so much ammo on the ground I was swimming in glowing white when I killed things. Now I can to one ark and only see 3-5 items drop at most, and that's usually just cash and salvage. I am always running on 0 stims/spikes/ and scarce grenades now that it's clearly obvious that something is wrong.

3rdpig
08-09-2014, 06:58 PM
I think they care and don't want the game to end, I just think they don't have a single hint of a clue how to make a game both fun and profitable.

SirServed
08-09-2014, 07:24 PM
bringing back the damage scores (wont happen)
That would be a dream come true. WM will go unkilled by PUGs for a long time until this change comes to pass. People see players using Bio weapons score high and follow suit, only to make the outcome worse.

Ruinne
08-09-2014, 07:33 PM
We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing. - Konstantin Jireček

The Defiance team aren't trying to kill this game, you can only work with the resources you're allotted. From what I've seen from the forum Whipping boy, the guy has a tremendous passion for making games. The sorts of decisions we think are idiocy are the sorts of things someone who has been tasked with taming the white elephant, yet given no time and no tools to do so, might be forced to do.

I think we're tilting at windmills when we assault the Defiance team with our usual fervour.

DeadEye68
08-09-2014, 08:03 PM
From what I've seen from the forum Whipping boy, the guy has a tremendous passion for making games. The sorts of decisions we think are idiocy are the sorts of things someone who has been tasked with taming the white elephant, yet given no time and no tools to do so, might be forced to do.

I, more or less, agree here. I also think it would help him -and pretty much everyone- having someone around him to translate what he says into humanspeak.


I think we're tilting at windmills when we assault the Defiance team with our usual fervour.

You sure it's still fervor ?

Bonehead
08-09-2014, 08:14 PM
Oh for sure, I have issues with the monetization and design structure of the game but we are all consumers of the game and not in any position to affect any real change. The development team will take the game in a direction that they feel is in the best interests of the game, and people playing it will either accept it or reject it and move on. It's the circle of gaming life.

Nicely said Etaew. Agree 100 %