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TalynOne
08-11-2014, 05:41 PM
Updated all effects which trigger on full reload to have a 10 second cooldown (a separate post will be coming with more details). For now, this is only being deployed to PTS for testing.

Source:
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?170840-2.202-to-PTS-Merged-SV-and-Main-World-Dynamic-Event-Manager-More&p=1591640&viewfull=1#post1591640

Other than people complaining that persons are able to recharge their ego powers quickly in PVP I have no idea why they would do this. This makes the recharge ego on reload purple stat a lot less desirable.

Ironically this would have 0 effect on my PVP load out but would affect my PVE / desired weapons greatly.

Nefarious
08-11-2014, 05:53 PM
You point out that having cool down times makes the use of them less desirable.

But for the vary fact that there hasn't been cool downs all this time has made the use of perks based on shaving cool down times themselves less desirable and obsolete since a player could just reload their single shot guns to gain unmatched Ego regen.

You are looking and worrying about the best thing on top of the mountain while over looked everything it over shadows.

Xervez
08-11-2014, 05:58 PM
Source:
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?170840-2.202-to-PTS-Merged-SV-and-Main-World-Dynamic-Event-Manager-More&p=1591640&viewfull=1#post1591640

Other than people whining that persons are able to recharge their ego powers quickly in PVP I have no idea why they would do this. This makes the recharge ego on reload purple stat a lot less desirable.

Ironically this would have 0 effect on my PVP load out but would affect my PVE / desired weapons greatly.

Think about.... this would make power stims more viable.

You have to choose now if you want your power faster from a stim or you want a heal stim on demand, more variety is always better.

The game was too easy with powers coming back just by reloading a weapon now if you wanna get them back faster you gotta work for it by aiming better aka critical kill etc... from those effects.

Infinity Eagle
08-11-2014, 06:00 PM
Changes to “On Full Reload” Effects

We have made a broad sweeping change to “On Full Reload” procs in the game. All effects that trigger from “on full reload” now have a 10s cooldown. This is due to combinations of extremely fast/instant reload weapons and perks/bonuses that were allowing players to have constant ego powers/buffs.

The list of impacted effects:

VBI EEC SMG blur (all variants)
VBI EEC HP-7 Wildcat overcharge (all variants)
Weapon Mastery grenade refresh
Weapon Mastery movement
Weapon Mastery EGO power duration
Synergy: Soldier
Synergy: Cannoneer
Rarity Bonus: Recharge EGO power
Perk: Pumped Up
Perk: Time Out

edispilfnairb
08-11-2014, 06:00 PM
Think about.... this would make power stims more viable.

You have to choose now if you want your power faster from a stim or you want a heal stim on demand, more variety is always better.

The game was too easy with powers coming back just by reloading a weapon now if you wanna get them back faster you gotta work for it by aiming better aka critical kill etc... from those effects.

Nope. Those now have a cool down too.

Infinity Eagle
08-11-2014, 06:02 PM
Tiered Lock Box Value Updates

For quite some time, Tier 4 Lock Boxes have been considered a less valuable investment for many ark hunters. Currently on PTS, and in an upcoming patch to live, we will increase the value of these boxes by adding a chance at a jackpot weapon in addition to its normal contents.

We will be rotating which weapon is granted from the jackpot roll, but it will always be a highly sought-after legendary weapon with set rarity bonuses and a meaningful synergy.

We're happy to announce that the first jackpot weapon will be an EEC HP-7 Wildcat with the Assassin synergy and Radiation nano.

To accompany this change, we've made some adjustments to Tier 2 and Tier 3 Lock Boxes. These will now drop arkforge in increments of 20. Additionally, Tier 2 lockboxes now no longer drop legendary items. These changes have been made to reinforce the value of the tiers in lock boxes.


So they are nerfing lock boxes more

DEATHBRINGER210
08-11-2014, 06:04 PM
dig the knife in a lil deeper please ty

Xervez
08-11-2014, 06:06 PM
Nope. Those now have a cool down too.

Yea it has the stim cooldown, which is what balances it out... so if you want your power back from a stim you gotta choose when to get it back since you have a limited amount, you can't just spam the stim like you could by reloading weapons to regenr you power back.

Good change overall, alot of people were spoiled with the quick regen powers.

xxdarkxwarxx
08-11-2014, 06:08 PM
Tiered Lock Box Value Updates

For quite some time, Tier 4 Lock Boxes have been considered a less valuable investment for many ark hunters. Currently on PTS, and in an upcoming patch to live, we will increase the value of these boxes by adding a chance at a jackpot weapon in addition to its normal contents.

We will be rotating which weapon is granted from the jackpot roll, but it will always be a highly sought-after legendary weapon with set rarity bonuses and a meaningful synergy.

We're happy to announce that the first jackpot weapon will be an EEC HP-7 Wildcat with the Assassin synergy and Radiation nano.

To accompany this change, we've made some adjustments to Tier 2 and Tier 3 Lock Boxes. These will now drop arkforge in increments of 20. Additionally, Tier 2 lockboxes now no longer drop legendary items. These changes have been made to reinforce the value of the tiers in lock boxes.


So they are nerfing lock boxes more

patches 2.2 and on is nerffest 2014

TalynOne
08-11-2014, 06:09 PM
Think about.... this would make power stims more viable.

You have to choose now if you want your power faster from a stim or you want a heal stim on demand, more variety is always better.

The game was too easy with powers coming back just by reloading a weapon now if you wanna get them back faster you gotta work for it by aiming better aka critical kill etc... from those effects.

I don't use stims in PVP, and if I run out of grenades in PVP I just don't use grenades. I don't bother buying new ones or claiming from my item box. In PVE I will continue to use armor repair as that is more useful to me. You're one of the top players in this game so making any decision based on what you find "easy" would be extremely poor game design, just like designing game mechanics based on the worst player(s) in the game.

DEATHBRINGER210
08-11-2014, 06:10 PM
veteran synergy and mastery rolls affected ?

OttawaREDBLACKS
08-11-2014, 06:10 PM
this is alot better if you rely on constantly spamming the power excessively it will effect you but serious question to anyone using an ar with a high cap or a saw how many times a minute do you have a full reload (spoiler, under 6)

Xervez
08-11-2014, 06:19 PM
I'm not alone on saying this game is too easy, and having quick regen was convenient but not needed.

The game has gone through many changes since it came out, and will probably go through alot more.

I have a feeling alot of the meta game we were used too might be changing sometime soon.

Alot of the perks need to be redesigned / adjusted, and this is probably the start of it.

As someone that played way back, we were spoiled by these perks, now they putting limitations on them, that was inevitable.

Deunan
08-11-2014, 06:21 PM
veteran synergy and mastery rolls affected ?Yes and yes

TalynOne
08-11-2014, 06:23 PM
BTW this is a done deal, I've never seen Trion remove/revert code even if 99% of the player base was against it. Testing it on PTS is just a formality before they put it on live.

Deunan
08-11-2014, 06:25 PM
BTW this is a done deal, I've never seen Trion remove code even if 99% of the player base was against it. Testing it on PTS is just a formality before they put it on live.They still may refine the change but given how they haven't lifted a finger to adjust the last nerf despite all the negative feedback, I doubt they'll listen to any constructive negative feedback for this one either.

Nefarious
08-11-2014, 06:33 PM
veteran synergy and mastery rolls affected ?

Its not on the list. And imo I don't think it should...

Cannoneer is on the list but I imagine its a cool down on its nano procing effect. And I don't imagine that the fire rate that it adds to the base stats has a cool down, but it could be and that's not something I think or anyone thinks is necessary. But if that is the case its a difference between 1% in fire rate between Cannoneer and Veteran which would make Veteran underwhelming in comparison.

ironcladtrash
08-11-2014, 06:37 PM
I really like this change. It just stops people being able to have infinite EGO power.

TalynOne
08-11-2014, 06:38 PM
I really like this change. It just stops people being able to have infinite EGO power.

Honestly this is the straw that broke the camel's back for me, if this goes into effect PVE will become all grind with no reward for me and I'm going to quit. I stopped playing as soon as I read this.

ironcladtrash
08-11-2014, 06:45 PM
Honestly this is the straw that broke the camel's back for me, if this goes into effect PVE will become all grind with no reward for me and I'm going to quit. I stopped playing as soon as I read this.

That's unfortunate. Hopefully you change your mind in after a bit. Although I have other games in the horizon like destiny and border lands. Neither one is a true mmo replacemant for me especially after playing the Destiny alpha.

LOOKxATxTHISxI
08-11-2014, 06:48 PM
Making it easier to walk away. Chats still broke, rewards have been decimated. Lock boxes have always been a joke and now making the tier 2 absolutely worthless. At least now it will be on par with the tier 4 boxes. Full of **** just like trick and the rest of dev team. September can't come quick enough you guys can have this.

Chump Norris
08-11-2014, 06:49 PM
This game never should have had PvP.

WhiteF8ng
08-11-2014, 07:05 PM
lmao...knew it was gonna happen. They had other options but the easiest was the perks/bonus. I've been telling people they were gonna do this for a long time... It was unavoidable.

Lillith Valerian
08-11-2014, 07:15 PM
Changes to “On Full Reload” Effects:
Weapon Mastery EGO power duration

*bangs head against keyboard in repetitive, angry despair*

My 1.0 second reload, Assassin VBI AR with Ego Power Duration and Ego on Critical Kill just got deflated, if I'm reading this right.

That single gun, used in Expert maps, was my last tiny shred of joy I had left in this game.

ironcladtrash
08-11-2014, 07:22 PM
*bangs head against keyboard in repetitive, angry despair*

My 1.0 second reload, Assassin VBI AR with Ego Power Duration and Ego on Critical Kill just got deflated, if I'm reading this right.

That single gun, used in Expert maps, was my last tiny shred of joy I had left in this game.

That should be fine since it triggers on critical kill. The change is only to full reload effects.

TalynOne
08-11-2014, 07:26 PM
That should be fine since it triggers on critical kill. The change is only to full reload effects.

He mentions "Weapon Mastery EGO power duration" which is affected according to Trion:

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?171276-Changes-to-%93On-Full-Reload%94-Effects

Deunan
08-11-2014, 07:28 PM
That should be fine since it triggers on critical kill. The change is only to full reload effects.If she's using Pumped Up it will still impact negatively on her DPS.

DeadEye68
08-11-2014, 07:29 PM
My 1.0 second reload, Assassin VBI AR with Ego Power Duration and Ego on Critical Kill just got deflated, if I'm reading this right.

That single gun, used in Expert maps, was my last tiny shred of joy I had left in this game.

You're losing on efficiency indeed if you were using perks triggering on full reload, which was most certainly the case I assume. The weapon itself remains untouched, but benefits from perks have been drastically reduced.

Edit : scratch it. You got the On Crit Kill from the purple roll, and the On Full Reload from weapon mastery? Right ?

Edit 2 : doesn't really matter from which source you got the On Full Reload proc in fact. Though they didn't list all sources, they stated they will implement the cooldown on all procs.

TalynOne
08-11-2014, 07:31 PM
Your weapon should be unaffected, unless I misread they put a cooldown for "on full reload" effects, not on crit kill ones.

From above:


He mentions "Weapon Mastery EGO power duration" which is affected according to Trion:

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?171276-Changes-to-%93On-Full-Reload%94-Effects

Lillith Valerian
08-11-2014, 07:32 PM
If she's using Pumped Up it will still impact negatively on her DPS.

If fact I am. My perks are a combo crafted by Chevota, and they make my character sing with death in a wondrous way.

I am now even more sad than before, if such a thing is possible. Every day it just gets worse.

konstantinov
08-11-2014, 07:33 PM
If fact I am.

I am now even more sad than before, if such a thing is possible. Every day it just gets worse.

Every thread post it gets worse.

ironcladtrash
08-11-2014, 07:38 PM
He mentions "Weapon Mastery EGO power duration" which is affected according to Trion:

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?171276-Changes-to-%93On-Full-Reload%94-Effects

I missed the part about ego power on duration and only saw the critical kill. Yeah you are absolutely right.


If she's using Pumped Up it will still impact negatively on her DPS.

Good call, I only ever used that on my rockets and sawed offs though. I have so many other perks I have a hard time to pick from. Eliminating pumped is easy for me if I don't use a single shot weapon.

DeadEye68
08-11-2014, 07:52 PM
Edit : I'll be using OCK for On Crit Kill and OFR for On Full Reload from now on

@TalynOne : there has to be some kind of typo. The EGO duration mastery bonus is OCK triggered not OFR. There is an EGO recharge OFR mastery bonus.

Rarnok spoke specifically about OFR procs, so the EGO duration mastery bonus should be unaffected, while the EGO recharge mastery bonus will be. He didn't list the OFR speed boost either, when it should be affected too.

Reeco Petoe
08-11-2014, 08:14 PM
That's unfortunate. Hopefully you change your mind in after a bit. Although I have other games in the horizon like destiny and border lands. Neither one is a true mmo replacemant for me especially after playing the Destiny alpha.

After reading more into the changes and what it may potentially do to my character, both PvE and PvP wise. I think I may give Firefall a serious try.

Dandrielas
08-11-2014, 08:25 PM
So on critical kill recharge is still good right?

DeadEye68
08-11-2014, 08:26 PM
So on critical kill recharge is still good right?

Only OFR procs are supposed to be impacted, Rarnok's list is inconsistent.

Dandrielas
08-11-2014, 08:29 PM
Only OFR procs are supposed to be impacted, Rarnok's list is inconsistent.

So basically only shotguns and missile launchers are being affected.

DeadEye68
08-11-2014, 08:39 PM
So basically only shotguns and missile launchers are being affected.

OFR purple rolls and mastery bonuses are common to all weapon types, so are OFR procs from perks. Single shot weapons are not the only ones providing benefits from them, but they provide the biggest benefits.

Dandrielas
08-11-2014, 08:41 PM
OFR purple rolls and mastery bonuses are common to all weapon types, so are OFR procs from perks. Single shot weapons benefit the most from OFR procs, but are not the only ones benefiting from them.

Well, I always prefer the critical kill recharge on ego, so it doesn't really affect me. On reload is a waste on SR and pistols.

ironcladtrash
08-11-2014, 08:44 PM
After reading more into the changes and what it may potentially do to my character, both PvE and PvP wise. I think I may give Firefall a serious try.

Well damn. I know I was going to try it too but have pretty much resigned myself to still playing this game for awhile. I don't think you'll be anywhere near gimped. You'll have rearrange loaduts for sure but would still be fine.

Deunan
08-11-2014, 08:59 PM
He mentions "Weapon Mastery EGO power duration" which is affected according to Trion:

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?171276-Changes-to-%93On-Full-Reload%94-EffectsHe's also very sloppy in his posts. Someone else on the team should be proofreading and approving his posts. He didn't mention the EGO regeneration mastery bonus which is probably what he meant. He's so sloppy that he refers to the mastery bonus for grenade damage on reload as a grenade regeneration bonus. It's as if he hasn't played the game since the grenade overhaul. Sloppy, very sloppy.

Reeco Petoe
08-11-2014, 09:01 PM
Well damn. I know I was going to try it too but have pretty much resigned myself to still playing this game for awhile. I don't think you'll be anywhere near gimped. You'll have rearrange loaduts for sure but would still be fine.

It doesn't really affect my PvP load-out a whole lot, maybe a perk or two. But it will highly affect 3, probably 4 of my PvE load-outs. I tend to sacrifice damage resistance perks and critical chance perks for ego recharge reduction perks, which I believe to be a fair trade off.

I'll still play actively until the changes roll-out, and when it happens, that's when I'll consider giving Firefall a serious try.

konstantinov
08-11-2014, 09:06 PM
He's also very sloppy in his posts. Someone else on the team should be proofreading and approving his posts. He didn't mention the EGO regeneration mastery bonus which is probably what he meant. He's so sloppy that he refers to the mastery bonus for grenade damage on reload as a grenade regeneration bonus. It's as if he hasn't played the game since the grenade overhaul. Sloppy, very sloppy.

No one likes sloppy seconds.

DeadEye68
08-11-2014, 09:37 PM
Sloppy, very sloppy.

It's not without reasons I've been that insistent on clarification about the upcoming modification to lockbox yields.

ConcreteSnake
08-11-2014, 09:49 PM
Looks like Nef got what he wanted from the make a wish foundation

duction
08-12-2014, 12:00 AM
Looks like Nef got what he wanted from the make a wish foundation

I don't even know what to say...

drackiller
08-12-2014, 12:10 AM
It looks like that some minorities gets what they want.
And some other minorities just don`t.

The minority of whiners always wins and the "real" minority that plays the game always gets shafted.

Shakk
08-12-2014, 01:08 AM
These changes are most likely the aftermath of the Zagger. It has been used to exploit alot of things in defiance, mainly it granted access to Silicon Valley before the release of that area. Are you really that suprised about this nerf?

Personally I'd call it a fix. No one needs to use a power stim while being able to refresh cooldown with 4 shots that reloads instantly with the zagger anyway.

All this cry about lockboxes being nerfed. Who cares about t2 lockboxes not being able to drop legendary?
They added Arkforge to the lockbox again, you ****ing spoiled people want it all but guess what, YOU CANT.

SilverWF
08-12-2014, 01:19 AM
Tier 2 lockboxes now no longer drop legendary items.

Facepalm hard

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 01:28 AM
These changes are most likely the aftermath of the Zagger. It has been used to exploit alot of things in defiance, mainly it granted access to Silicon Valley before the release of that area. Are you really that suprised about this nerf?

Personally I'd call it a fix. No one needs to use a power stim while being able to refresh cooldown with 4 shots that reloads instantly with the zagger anyway.

All this cry about lockboxes being nerfed. Who cares about t2 lockboxes not being able to drop legendary?
They added Arkforge to the lockbox again, you ****ing spoiled people want it all but guess what, YOU CANT.

Sounds like everything comes back to PVP. No one cares about PVP they should just shut that part of the game down and save everyone the trouble. Or maybe I shouldn't say 'no one cares about" that could make me sound like an arrogant ***. Next thing you know I would give myself a self-felatio gratifying signature.

Reeco Petoe
08-12-2014, 01:45 AM
These changes are most likely the aftermath of the Zagger. It has been used to exploit alot of things in defiance, mainly it granted access to Silicon Valley before the release of that area. Are you really that suprised about this nerf?

Personally I'd call it a fix. No one needs to use a power stim while being able to refresh cooldown with 4 shots that reloads instantly with the zagger anyway.

All this cry about lockboxes being nerfed. Who cares about t2 lockboxes not being able to drop legendary?
They added Arkforge to the lockbox again, you ****ing spoiled people want it all but guess what, YOU CANT.

How is the Zagger an exploit when the company allowed the stats on it to stay for so long... And stay still...

To exploit means to use something in an unintentional way. Did Trion ever say that this weapon was being used in an unintentional way?

Shakk
08-12-2014, 01:50 AM
How is the Zagger an exploit when the company allowed the stats on it to stay for so long... And stay still...

To exploit means to use something in an unintentional way. Did Trion ever say that this weapon was being used in an unintentional way?

It was used to get players over to Silicon Valley before it was released. That is an exploit.

Shakk
08-12-2014, 01:52 AM
Sounds like everything comes back to PVP. No one cares about PVP they should just shut that part of the game down and save everyone the trouble. Or maybe I shouldn't say 'no one cares about" that could make me sound like an arrogant ***. Next thing you know I would give myself a self-felatio gratifying signature.

How nice of you to contribute to the thread :)

On topic, You dont find refreshing ego power in 4 shots with a gun that doesn't even display a reload animation and just magically inserts fresh bullets and grants it a faster fire rate than an FRC Scattergun broken? Working like intended, right?

This is not only breaking PvP, Its also breaking PvE making it easier than it already is when everyone can run around with 45% speed increase and constant overcharge with 30% more damage and 30% faster reload.

Atticus Batman
08-12-2014, 02:11 AM
How nice of you to contribute to the thread :)

On topic, You dont find refreshing ego power in 4 shots with a gun that doesn't even display a reload animation and just magically inserts fresh bullets and grants it a faster fire rate than an FRC Scattergun broken? Working like intended, right?

This is not only breaking PvP, Its also breaking PvE making it easier than it already is when everyone can run around with 45% speed increase and constant overcharge with 30% more damage and 30% faster reload.

Not everyone, uses a stupid zagger.

Shakk
08-12-2014, 02:17 AM
Not everyone, uses a stupid zagger.

This is not only breaking PvP, Its also breaking PvE making it easier than it already is when everyone ___CAN___ run around with 45% speed increase and constant overcharge with 30% more damage and 30% faster reload.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 02:20 AM
How nice of you to contribute to the thread :)

On topic, You dont find refreshing ego power in 4 shots with a gun that doesn't even display a reload animation and just magically inserts fresh bullets and grants it a faster fire rate than an FRC Scattergun broken? Working like intended, right?

This is not only breaking PvP, Its also breaking PvE making it easier than it already is when everyone can run around with 45% speed increase and constant overcharge with 30% more damage and 30% faster reload.

The mastery on my Zagger is recoil (don't have the arkforge to try something else), is a thousand levels below me, as is my shield. I've never used pumped up in my pvp load out, and have never used perks to reduce my cloak recharge or increase its duration. I've only encountered one other Zagger user in PVP in the past two weeks and those skirmishes lasted MUCH longer than my regular fights. It's not the weapon, it's the player that kicks your ***. I've used many different weapons to be effective.

Reeco Petoe
08-12-2014, 02:23 AM
This is not only breaking PvP, Its also breaking PvE making it easier than it already is when everyone ___CAN___ run around with 45% speed increase and constant overcharge with 30% more damage and 30% faster reload.

Does it make the Warmaster easier?

No it doesn't, it hardly affects PvE at all TBH

Shakk
08-12-2014, 02:24 AM
The mastery on my Zagger is recoil (don't have the arkforge to try something else), is a thousand levels below me, as is my shield. I've never used pumped up in my pvp load out, and have never used perks to reduce my cloak recharge or increase its duration. I've only encountered one other Zagger user in PVP in the past two weeks and those skirmishes lasted MUCH longer than my regular fights. It's not the weapon, it's the player that kicks your ***. I've used many different weapons to be effective.

On PC EU I dont believe there is anyone using a Zagger in PvP. You talk awfully alot about PvP for someone who doesn't care about PvP.

duction
08-12-2014, 02:25 AM
Not everyone, uses a stupid zagger.

Wait untill they nerf snipers for being OP in pvp then he will be moaning.

Atticus Batman
08-12-2014, 02:26 AM
This is not only breaking PvP, Its also breaking PvE making it easier than it already is when everyone ___CAN___ run around with 45% speed increase and constant overcharge with 30% more damage and 30% faster reload.

You are still implying that everyone uses a zagger. I don't even own one, so I could care less about your zagger related stats that you keep quoting.

Shakk
08-12-2014, 02:26 AM
Does it make the Warmaster easier?

No it doesn't, it hardly affects PvE at all TBH

I've killed the warmaster plenty of times, even after the lock changes. If everyone was using a zagger and a wolfhound I bet he would have died even faster, dont you ?

Shakk
08-12-2014, 02:28 AM
Wait untill they nerf snipers for being OP in pvp then he will be moaning.

Believe what you want to believe, I am capable of adapting. I haven't even been using sniper rifles for that long.

In fact i do think the semi snipers need a rework. I dont think any gun except for the Bolt Action sniper should be capable of one hit kills.

duction
08-12-2014, 02:30 AM
Believe what you want to believe, I am capable of adapting. I haven't even been using sniper rifles for that long.

Good for you :)

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 02:31 AM
On PC EU I dont believe there is anyone using a Zagger in PvP. You talk awfully alot about PvP for someone who doesn't care about PvP.

I do care about PVP but it shouldn't make PVE loud outs/perks obsolete and negate people's weapon collections (and make their masteries crap) because of people's perceived inequalities in PVP. Spoiler: Defiance PvP will never be balanced unless they give everyone identical weapons, egos, and perks. I believe you should be able to use any weapon you'd like in game and not be so butt hurt over being killed by a particular weapon. If it wasn't the Zagger it would be something else.

Reeco Petoe
08-12-2014, 02:32 AM
I've killed the warmaster plenty of times, even after the lock changes. If everyone was using a zagger and a wolfhound I bet he would have died even faster, dont you ?

Try it and put it up for everyone to see

Shakk
08-12-2014, 02:39 AM
I do care about PVP but it shouldn't make PVE loud outs/perks obsolete and negate people's weapon collections (and masteries) crap because of people's perceived inequalities in PVP. Spoiler: Defiance PvP will never be balanced unless they give everyone identical weapons, egos, and perks. I believe you should be able to use any weapon you'd like in game and not be so butt hurt over being killed by a particular weapon. If it wasn't the Zagger it would be something else.

Still this is not a rework only of the ego on reload, this is a rework on everything that activates on reloads/critical kills. Not only about the Zagger but its one step closer of making PvP and PvE more enjoyable (In my opinion ofc)

I think the coops in Defiance are laughably easy, there is no challange at all. When I enter a Coop I only want to get it overwith as fast as possible because its just not challenging at all, if it wasn't for contracts I wouldn't run coops. If they were hard as *** (like when they just got released with the new scaling system, before all nubs cried for a nerf) I would enjoy them more.

Playing all coops with a random team setup with random guns and still not wipe once. That imo is wrong.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 02:46 AM
Co-Op maps are laughably boring because it's the exact same map you've run 10,000 times and makes you want to tear your hair out when someone doesn't skip the cut scene you've seen 10,000 times. Expert map difficulty is perfectly fine, many randoms I run with have a serious time surviving and go down several times.

Shakk
08-12-2014, 02:53 AM
Co-Op maps are laughably boring because it's the exact same map you've run 10,000 times and makes you want to tear your hair out when someone doesn't skip the cut scene you've seen 10,000 times. Expert map difficulty is perfectly fine, many randoms I run with have a serious time surviving and go down several times.

I dont feel that expert mode is perfectly fine. Its still too easy, that should not be the endgame content.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 02:55 AM
I dont feel that expert mode is perfectly fine. Its still too easy, that should not be the endgame content.

If you want it to be harder have your clan mates pop the map for you and leave so you can run it solo.

Shakk
08-12-2014, 02:57 AM
If you want it to be harder have your clan mates pop the map for you and leave so you can run it solo.

It scales down

Shakk
08-12-2014, 02:59 AM
Before these news I sold a purple Zagger for 2.75 million scrip. After these news is there anyone willing to buy my last Zagger for 2.75 million? Or was this nerf enough to scare people away?

duction
08-12-2014, 03:07 AM
They will still be the best shotgun to use

Reeco Petoe
08-12-2014, 03:07 AM
It scales down

I doubt that it does...

I would be willing to see video proof of it, as well as your zagger/wolfhound warmaster....

Shakk
08-12-2014, 03:10 AM
I doubt that it does...

I would be willing to see video proof of it, as well as your zagger/wolfhound warmaster....

I have experienced that health of the enemies scales down in coops even when someone goes AFK and stands still at the beginning of the instance and the rest pushes forward. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it scales down.

Why dont you try it yourself? You are the one who cares about it.

mYsca
08-12-2014, 03:18 AM
Its still a massive dps nerf for PvE. You wont be able to run the 75%-100% uptime on ego powers with most guns.
Clearspeed in expert would go up making you waste more time in there. Warmaster ends up being harder. Factor in the big encryption nerf for newer players (less access to top of the line weapons) the overall dps of the entire group will drop significant.

For PvE things have to be rebalanced significantly.

I must say the old cloak with the perk setup wasnt in line of balance but with new cloak I dont see it being an issue in PvP. With blur is was already pretty meh. But cant really tell for console players.

mYsca
08-12-2014, 03:20 AM
They will still be the best shotgun to use

I would take a VOT Fragger of Volge Breacher over it any time of the day in PvP.

Reeco Petoe
08-12-2014, 03:35 AM
I have experienced that health of the enemies scales down in coops even when someone goes AFK and stands still at the beginning of the instance and the rest pushes forward. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it scales down.

Why dont you try it yourself? You are the one who cares about it.

So no video proof of your zagger/wolfhound team killing the warmaster?

No video proof of you beating an expert co-op solo?

Fuzzy
08-12-2014, 03:36 AM
I doubt that it does...

I would be willing to see video proof of it, as well as your zagger/wolfhound warmaster....

It does scale down. I've run several co-ops alone and they were much much easier.
A Rioter took about 2 shots from my Big Boomer when alone, when in a group of 4, 2 shots maybe take away 25-30% of his health, even though they are at the same position.
Shakk's right.

Also, it only has a 10 second cooldown. Some weapons take longer than 10 seconds to fully empty a magazine.
Take the Warmaster for example. I run two weapons with ego power recharge on full reload for it, but most of the time, I can never shoot at him all the time because he runs away. So adjusting my position, emptying the magazine, it most likely takes more than 10secs.
Everywhere else in PvE, DPS is not the most important thing because nothing else is a DPS race. It won't affet WM runs too much, IMO.
You are able to use overcharge not all the time. More damage doesn't grant you more score. The fight itself takes maybe in a whole a minute more or two.

Shakk
08-12-2014, 03:51 AM
So no video proof of your zagger/wolfhound team killing the warmaster?

No video proof of you beating an expert co-op solo?

You make it sound like I already have a team of 24 people stacked with Zaggers and Wolfhounds, waiting for my command to slay the Warmaster for me. I only said that he would probably go down faster with a team of zagger/wolfhounds than with people using [insert random gun here]

Arsenic_Touch
08-12-2014, 06:40 AM
You make it sound like I already have a team of 24 people stacked with Zaggers and Wolfhounds, waiting for my command to slay the Warmaster for me. I only said that he would probably go down faster with a team of zagger/wolfhounds than with people using [insert random gun here]

Please tell me you're trolling here. Do you actually believe that a zagger is remotely useful in a warmaster fight?

MadMoxxiFavGun
08-12-2014, 06:42 AM
These changes are most likely the aftermath of the Zagger. It has been used to exploit alot of things in defiance, mainly it granted access to Silicon Valley before the release of that area. Are you really that suprised about this nerf?

Personally I'd call it a fix. No one needs to use a power stim while being able to refresh cooldown with 4 shots that reloads instantly with the zagger anyway.

All this cry about lockboxes being nerfed. Who cares about t2 lockboxes not being able to drop legendary?
They added Arkforge to the lockbox again, you ****ing spoiled people want it all but guess what, YOU CANT.

best post in thread

Perchta
08-12-2014, 06:46 AM
I worry about games that after being out for over a year are still finding the need to nerf.

ironcladtrash
08-12-2014, 07:26 AM
Please tell me you're trolling here. Do you actually believe that a zagger is remotely useful in a warmaster fight?

Twitch used it a lot to keep his overcharge active.

Shakk
08-12-2014, 08:08 AM
Please tell me you're trolling here. Do you actually believe that a zagger is remotely useful in a warmaster fight?

Since it is the highest white damage dps gun wich recharges your overcharge in 4 shots, I have a hard time thinking it wouldn't any good against the crystal armor. If you got a BIO on it then it will also rip those armor plates right off.

3000(ish)x8 = 24000,
24000 x2 = 48000
fire rate of what, 2,0 ?
48000x2 = 96000 dps (without overcharge wich is +30% damage) I am not sure if overload is actually reloading the 0.0 zagger even faster but if it is, I dont understand how you can believe the gun is worthless against the warmaster.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 08:42 AM
Overcharge puts the Zagger into a negative reload which makes it reload slowly. You're better off using an overcharged regular weapon. If you ever actually used the weapon you should know this.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 08:43 AM
Twitch used it a lot to keep his overcharge active.

This was back when he also used a Surge Bolter on the amor and crit spot and the Warmaster armor plates didn't exist. The Warmaster is an entirely different fight now.

Shakk
08-12-2014, 08:50 AM
Overcharge puts the Zagger into a negative reload which makes it reload slowly. You're better off using an overcharged regular weapon. If you ever actually used the weapon you should know this.

Okay, then just not use the overload perk, problem solved and its still a 0.0 reload.

Deunan
08-12-2014, 08:54 AM
They added Arkforge to the lockbox again...They never took them out. They haven't added any value to the tier 2 and tier 3 lock boxes. All they are doing is further devaluing them. Tier 2 and Tier 3 lock boxes will no longer include bundles of 50 Arkforge in their loot table. Notwithstanding Trick saying that they would never put an item in a lockbox that players could pay cash for that would require them to pay more cash to use, they've reneged on that promise as well by putting a DLC exclusive weapon in as the first legendary jackpot item in a transparent cash grab directed at F2P players, so that too is a form of devaluation of the tier 4 lock box as well.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 08:54 AM
Also like any other sawed off the fall off damage loss is quite steep, so unless you're able to magically hug the Warmaster without being crushed and fly up to his target spot when when hangs then your non overcharged DPS will be quite terrible.

Shakk
08-12-2014, 08:55 AM
Also like any other sawed off the fall off damage loss is quite steep, so unless your able to magically hug the Warmaster without being crushed and fly up to his target spot when when hangs then your non overcharged DPS will be quite terrible.

I dont know how you play the warmaster but Im always pretty close on him and hipfire my AR. without getting crushed, lots has to do with positioning.

ironcladtrash
08-12-2014, 08:58 AM
This was back when he also used a Surge Bolter on the amor and crit spot and the Warmaster armor plates didn't exist. The Warmaster is an entirely different fight now.

You still want to keep overcharge going. It's still an effective tactic. The plates just make it so you use a bio SMG till the plates break.

Shakk
08-12-2014, 09:01 AM
They never took them out. They haven't added any value to the tier 2 and tier 3 lock boxes. All they are doing is further devaluing them. Tier 2 and Tier 3 lock boxes will no longer include bundles of 50 Arkforge in their loot table. Notwithstanding Trick saying that they would never put an item in a lockbox that players could pay cash for that would require them to pay more cash to use, they've reneged on that promise as well by putting a DLC exclusive weapon in as the first legendary jackpot item in a transparent cash grab directed at F2P players, so that too is a form of devaluation of the tier 4 lock box as well.

Oh, then i was wrong about the arkforge in T2. I thought they took that out completely and now adding them in exchange for no chance of legendaries.
About the T4 box, thats just laughable and I totally agree that its properly messed up. I myself dont have that DLC but I'm not that upset about it, I could always sell the gun or give it to a clannie.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 09:05 AM
You still want to keep overcharge going. It's still an effective tactic. The plates just make it so you use a bio SMG till the plates break.

Still is and is not unique to the Zagger. So is using power stims, so is extracting so you come back with ego recharges and spikes (if you care more about Warmaster damage than personal score). Again nothing to do with the Zagger.

ironcladtrash
08-12-2014, 09:15 AM
Still is and is not unique to the Zagger. So is using power stims, so is extracting so you come back with ego recharges and spikes (if you care more about Warmaster damage than personal score). Again nothing to do with the Zagger.
The others are viable too. However they cannot give you infinite overcharge like the zagger. Your initial response indicated the zagger was not a good choice anymore. I only wanted to point out it still is for damage. Dieing and extracting to get your overcharge back is a significant hit to your DPS than using a zagger.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 09:37 AM
The others are viable too. However they cannot give you infinite overcharg like the zagger. Your initial response indicated the zagger was not a goid choice anymore. I only wanted to point out it still is for damage. Dieing and extracting to get your overcharge back is a significant hit to your DPS then using a zagger.

In this scenario the Zagger is not being used for direct DPS but simply to recharge your ego power. I have a few rocket launchers and proliferators that can do that even better than my Zagger if I wished to play that way (I don't). You also lose DPS when shooting your alt weapon to regain ego possibly also losing good positioning in the process. When people aren't putting down damage or ammo spikes then dying and being able to refill ammo / put down damage spikes when you come down right before he hangs in good position will be a net DPS gain and is a viable decision.

ironcladtrash
08-12-2014, 09:41 AM
In this scenario the Zagger is not being used for direct DPS but simply to recharge your ego power. I have a few rocket launchers and proliferators that can do that even better than my Zagger if I wished to play that way (I don't). You also lose DPS when shooting your alt weapon to regain ego possibly also losing good positioning in the process. When people aren't putting down damage or ammo spikes then dying and being able to refill ammo / put down damage spikes when you come down right before he hangs in good position will be a net DPS gain and is a viable decision.

With pumped up and the 0 reload time and skipped animation on the zagger there is no rocket launcher or proliferator that can do the same thing. And with the zagger you can still get in position and shoot his back or arm with it to do damage. (Although the back is the only viable choice now with random players.) Nothing is stopping you from deploying spikes either.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 10:01 AM
With pumped up and the 0 reload time and skipped animation on the zagger there is no rocket launcher or proliferator that can do the same thing. And with the zagger you can still get in position and shoot his back or arm with it to do damage. (Although the back is the only viable choice now with random players.) Nothing is stopping you from deploying spikes either.

I just did some testing to make sure. The part that took me the longest is finding the pumped up perk as it's in none of my load outs. With my Zagger from 0 ego charge it takes 3-4 seconds of reload to recharge my ego, my proliferator takes 4-5. Not the behmeoth it's made out to be.

I'd rather they remove the Zagger then introduce this collection of nerfs. Lets pretend they found out 25% ammo regen could be abused by Needlers to regen ammo as not have to visit the ammo box as often. Would you be happy if Trion's proposed solution is to half the ammo pool of all guns? Because this is in effect what they're doing. Nerfing thousands of guns, perks and loadouts to fix a possible scenario that is being more whined about than actually occurring.

Also a 0 reload time doesn't mean the gun becomes a techmag sawed off, it just reloads faster. A clan member observed he doesn't notice a difference between a 0.1 and a 0.0 Zagger (he has several of both). That's why in a face to face fight a Needler will always out dps and kill a Zagger user.

ironcladtrash
08-12-2014, 10:09 AM
I'd rather they remove the Zagger then introduce this collection of nerfs. they're doing. ......
Nerfing thousands of guns, perks and loadouts to fix.

Sometimes I think we play different games. But yeah there was tons of ways they could have fixed this other then nerfing a ton of load out options. I can't defend the Zagger however. I wanted them to just fix the broken animation. This is very similar to when they nerfed all the proc rates as opposed to fixing the real issue which was that syphon could heal you faster than a BMG. Just seems par for the course for Trion.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 10:14 AM
Sometimes I think we play different games. But yeah there was tons of ways they could have fixed this other then nerfing a ton of load out options. I can't defend the Zagger however. I wanted them to just fix the broken animation. This is very similar to when they nerfed all the proc rates as opposed to fixing the real issue which was that syphon could heal you faster than a BMG. Just seems par for the course for Trion.

Honest question, if you had the choice of removing the Surge Bolter, Precise Chaos, Slugger or Zagger from the game, which would you remove?

Shakk
08-12-2014, 10:15 AM
Sometimes I think we play different games. But yeah there was tons of ways they could have fixed this other then nerfing a ton of load out options. I can't defend the Zagger however. I wanted them to just fix the broken animation. This is very similar to when they nerfed all the proc rates as opposed to fixing the real issue which was that syphon could heal you faster than a BMG. Just seems par for the course for Trion.

Haha, good times. I remember they reworked all the shotguns in that patch so they wouldn't be able to oneshot in PvP and not be too strong for PvE aswell. That worked out "just fine". Syphon was the best nano up until arktech revolutions came out wich ofc rendered Syphon useless instead :)

Deunan
08-12-2014, 10:19 AM
Honest question, if you had the choice of removing the Surge Bolter, Precise Chaos, Slugger or Zagger from the game, which would you remove?I know what his answer would be. There is one particular weapon that Dod hates with the burning passion of one thousand white suns. :p

ironcladtrash
08-12-2014, 10:21 AM
Honest question, if you had the choice of removing the Surge Bolter, Precise Chaos, Slugger or Zagger from the game, which would you remove?

Probably SB. I don't see the Zagger as much as I do that thing and with out the 0 reload ego recharge I wouldn't care about it. I have no idea though how to make the SB balanced with out removing it. The other guns at least I can maintain distance from.


I know what his answer would be. There is one particular weapon that Dod hates with the burning passion of one thousand white suns. :p

Lol, yep. That thing makes me rage so much in SWs now.

bigguy
08-12-2014, 10:23 AM
Im sure the people working at TRION sit back at thier offices just laughing at us and what we like and dont like.
You can tell by what most of them say in posts that hardly any of them play Defiance.

As long as people still buy bits They will never actually care about us or what we really want in game to make it fun.

bigguy
08-12-2014, 10:26 AM
Nerf everything , Give us all different color water balloons.

Jet1337
08-12-2014, 10:27 AM
Im sure the people working at TRION sit back at thier offices just laughing at us and what we like and dont like.
You can tell by what most of them say in posts that hardly any of them play Defiance.

As long as people still buy bits They will never actually care about us or what we really want in game to make it fun.

Do you think the president of Burger King eats Burger King? The same philosophy applies to pretty much every company. They don't partake in their own product as much as their customers.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 10:34 AM
Do you think the president of Burger King eats Burger King? The same philosophy applies to pretty much every company. They don't partake in their own product as much as their customers.

Well to be fair anyone eating regularly at Burger King would have a pretty short life span.

Deunan
08-12-2014, 10:39 AM
Do you think the president of Burger King eats Burger King? The same philosophy applies to pretty much every company. They don't partake in their own product as much as their customers.The developers are not the executive officers of Trion so this is a poor analogy both in that respect and in the industry comparison. Game developers should be passionate about the game they are working on and that means they should want to play it in their spare time with at least some degree of regularity. It's hard to reconcile that with the what the dev team actually does to the game.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 10:47 AM
Yeah there's always been a major disconnect between how Trick thinks the game works and reality. I once asked in a livestream why Shadow Wars was worth virtually no multplayer clan progression points in comparison to Waterfront / Observatory and his response was that it's based on contribution you make in the map and in maps like Waterfront / Observatory in comparison to Shadow Wars there's a lot more opportunity for kills. That in addition to his other responses/comments about the game (especially the Warmaster) solidified the fact that to me that he understands very little on how big chunks of the game work.

bigguy
08-12-2014, 10:54 AM
The president at Burger King may not eat Burger King but im sure he cares more about his customers than TRION.

Deunan
08-12-2014, 10:58 AM
The president at Burger King may not eat Burger King but im sure he cares more about his customers than TRION.I'll take that bet. No one monetizes customers better than the fast food industry and they do it by encouraging unhealthy eating behavior.

TalynOne
08-12-2014, 11:00 AM
I'll take that bet. No one monetizes customers better than the fast food industry and they do it by encouraging unhealthy eating behavior.

I think he means cares in the sense of keeping your customers happy. If they cared about customer health they would shut down every location.

ironcladtrash
08-12-2014, 11:03 AM
I think he means cares in the sense of keeping your customers happy. If they cared about customer health they would shut down every location.

That might be good for me, my avatar is looking more and more like a self portrait.

Storm58
08-12-2014, 11:04 AM
I think he means cares in the sense of keeping your customers happy. If they cared about customer health they would shut down every location.

Deunan always goes that route... What route is that? The one where he/she can argue about something that the original poster didn't care about.

mYsca
08-12-2014, 11:25 AM
The only thing I wonder about this thread and similar threads is how much % is console whine and how much is pc. It just feels like there is a massive difference between platforms. For both PvP as PvE.

Zagger users meh hardly see them.
Same goes for most new "sniper" is OP. On pc sniper is pretty meh, atleast if not in the hands of certain players.

Maybe the majority of the problem stems from how the aim assist work on platforms. Maybe console gets too much aim assist to help them out. For myself I cannot use it, it sometimes drags my crosshair to places I dont want to shoot.

Besides if PvP complaints was so influential how come they havent destroyed those explosive weapons yet? They are pretty ****** proof in PvE and PvP.

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 11:53 AM
Nerf everything , Give us all different color water balloons.

Amen Reverend ED!

Flank
08-12-2014, 01:44 PM
I think the Cool Down should be applied when PvP'ing.
Not necessarily in Pve.. with the perks anyways.