PDA

View Full Version : The end of Defiance!! or even the end of Trion??



horup79
08-12-2014, 01:34 AM
Well aware that this post most likely will get removed and med banned from the forums, I still have to speak up.
I would like to state that I do enjoy playing defiance and I do like the concept of the game.
But when that is said, of late, latest changes have made this game uninteresting to me.

I will now list some of the reasons why Defiance has reached this status to me.

1) Empty servers.
Defiance is a MMO. There for the servers should be crowded. A game must hold some sort of co-op before it is interesting to me. I want to play games with my friends and meet new friends. I see the empty servers as a respond, from the gaming community, to Trion as a farewell. And many of my friends have said that and wowed they will never buy another Trion game again.

2) Pay-to-win
The free-to-play bit is to me a cover-up for introducing Pay-to-win. We see this as the drastically reduced numbers of keycodes and arkforge, which have been made essential in order to get better weapons. Top this up with the outrageous prices we are offered to buy the illusive arkforge and we got the worst concept in gaming. Pay-to-win.

3) No fun playing
The repetitive tasks/quests/pursuits etc. has made defiance boring. The has to been something new. Something to entertain us. Something to achieve.
I will however agree that Trion is trying, but it is not working. As I see their efforts, we gamers are runners trying to do a race, and Trion, every time we get close to the finish line, they prolong the race. Same stuff just takes a bit longer. Boring!!
Bring in something really new. Like clan halls and clan outfits and cars. Or let us make events, not just death marches, but incursions, sieges and arkfalls. Introduce weapon forging. And make it so everyone can afford it.

4) Progress - Sense of purpose
There also has to be an experience of progress. A sense of purpose. Both in game and on the forums.
It is not very smart, for whatever reason, a statement was made that, we gamers, were playing the game wrong. To be fair, this is second hand information to me, but it goes very well in line with my other experiences. But if we gamers are not playing the game as Trion wishes, then try to change the game dynamics in a way for us to do so. Do not go blaming the community for undesired gaming behaviour when you, Trion, have the full control over the dynamics.
Another thing. Making forums where we, gamers, can help you, Trion, to make the game work better by submitting error/bug reports, and many do, but we get ignored. At best we get a reply, but nothing gets fixed. Only bug that are beneficial to the gamers gets fixed. If Trion think they lose out on a bug, it gets fixed the day after. But when it improves the gaming experience it takes forever if it ever gets fixed.
By going at it like that people gets the feeling that Trion do not care about their community, and the community are returning the favour.
In game progress has been terminated as well. As I mentioned in 2) Pay-to-win, it is now nearly impossible to accumulate arkforge, which is essential for progress in Defiance. After the latest patches I would be lucky if I could get 500 arkforge in a month. Which to me is ridiculous, since the demand for arkforge is growing each day. 2 week ago I summed up my need for arkforge. If I was to upgrade all my weapons to highest rarity. You know what, I needed 34.000 arkforge. And this is not including any rerolls of a weapons mastery. This is wrong!! And my appreciation for does not cover that timeframe.

Where does this leave me?
I will most like get banned. Feeling a bit depressed that a game that could be so great is not. But still at peace, because I too, will not buy or spend any money on a Trion game ever again. I simply cannot see why. If Trion does not change how they treat their users, I won't participate. I cannot trust Trion not to screw me over again.
But if Trion suddenly decides to wake up, and try to mend things by sorting out the issues I have with Defiance in its immediate state, I won't hesitate keep playing. Looking forward to what action Trion will take.
Best of luck.

Yours truly
Horup79

LegendaryU2K
08-12-2014, 01:44 AM
This game isn't paid to win. One of my characters is at 350 ego, and i have 6 great guns , 30keys, and over 50k. And i do just fine playing any mission, coop, pvp. As for no fun playing? are you serious? There's so much stuff to do, pvp, pve, coop with different maps, exploring, leveling up, helping people, nice story, lots of missions, side quests. etc.

9/10 IMO

horup79
08-12-2014, 01:50 AM
As you said yourself. You are ego 350. Im ego 5800. it gets repetitive...
I can tell you do a lot of posts on the forums. Do you ever read some?
All are say the same.. Defiance is done!

jackdaws_1999
08-12-2014, 02:25 AM
Have to agree with Horup here, this game is 100% pay to win. Come back when you are higher ego and have tried to keep those guns at your level. Also your idea of good weapons will drastically change as you play the game. I know I started loving certain weapons, and now looking back, I had NO idea what was good and what was not.

The other thing Horup forgot to mention is the LONG list of bugs that have Never been fixed, but break game play horribly... Houdini Enemies, Disconnects, Repo Car men, broken stats on guns, etc. etc. etc. There is such a long list of broken things about this game, its hard to come up with a list of things that they HAVE fixed, and I dont mean the things they SAY they have fixes, I mean Actually fixed...

I love this game, I love the community, I hate the apathy that seems apparent from the developers, and the poor design decisions that come from one Mr Dempsey, I also hate the Complete Disconnect with the rest of the community the developers have. This game could be the best game on 360 and PS3 (Maybe not pc, as there is alot of competition), but console wise, this has the potential to be a MONSTER... but potential doesnt make a game... Ideas, caffine, hard graft, and alot of investment are what is required... trion seems to have the graft... but lack in all other areas.

Dinova
08-12-2014, 03:09 AM
I roam around the place alot, but stuff like arkfall and incursion are always massive crowded and most daily missions i always see one or two peeps going along.

Thing i never understand, people say its empty.. You ever been recently to The Barrens in WoW or alike? Its more deserted per square KM then this game.

Go play Firefall after recent patch, then you know the definition of 'empty'.
I've came back from Firefall, this game suddenly feels topnotch.

Gigibop
08-12-2014, 03:20 AM
If you don`t know who i am then you clearly haven't played defiance much. This game has gone down the crapper, and the release of silicon valley was a joke. I drove around for an hour and did not even see another player. I suggest leaving now before you waste too much time. And this game isn't pay to win at all. I don't have anything special that a free player can't get and i still have no problems killing any player/boss/enemy in the game. (No dlc's here)

crazyged
08-12-2014, 03:24 AM
I have to say, I have noticed a drop in the population, particularly at Arkfalls and incursions.

It can still get busy, but that absolute chaos that used to reign is missing these days... I want that back!

Marshal Law
08-12-2014, 03:27 AM
As you said yourself. You are ego 350. Im ego 5800. it gets repetitive...
I can tell you do a lot of posts on the forums. Do you ever read some?
All are say the same.. Defiance is done!

No need to attack a new player who is enjoying the game. Everything you said is fine but remember it is YOUR opinion.

Dinova
08-12-2014, 03:50 AM
If you don`t know who i am then you clearly haven't played defiance much. This game has gone down the crapper, and the release of silicon valley was a joke. I drove around for an hour and did not even see another player. I suggest leaving now before you waste too much time. And this game isn't pay to win at all. I don't have anything special that a free player can't get and i still have no problems killing any player/boss/enemy in the game. (No dlc's here)
Luckely the forums do not reflect most people i meet ingame..

I once said last year, if i regret buying the game:

Any given game at any given point, you will get bored. Take a break, do some other stuff and enjoy it later again.

I have no regret at all.
And that is exactly what i did, enjoying it far more then the previous times.

Etaew
08-12-2014, 04:09 AM
It does look like we are on a downward trend after the release of F2P, I'm hoping that it levels off at a higher level than we had mid last season.

I really wish we had a higher retention rate, and people rightly find faults with the end/elder game. I know the devs have some plans for this, but for new things we probably have to wait until the end of the TV season as they are tied up with crossover content.

http://i.imgur.com/7VIROa2.png

Bentu
08-12-2014, 04:18 AM
OP it sounds to me that you are a little burned out and just need to take a break. Don't know how long you've been playing but just take some time out on another game for a while and come back.

It works for me and I've got over 100 days played in game.

MrClip26
08-12-2014, 04:34 AM
So pretty much you and everyone here on the forums (crying) is mad they can't upgrade whites to oranges no more..that's what i see from reading the forums in the last week or so. -deleted-

and whoever spends real money in game, ect bits ect..well shame on you.. ON ANY GAME. dlc excluded.

things i would change since my return. to list 1
Keycodes earned.
-
i am still adjusting to all the changes made. (probably not much longer as the game is almost empty most days now)
-deleted-

wont be back to this thread to read your or anyones reply.

deleted alot of my post to avoid being banned.

squidgod2000
08-12-2014, 05:28 AM
Im ego 5800. it gets repetitive...

It's an MMO (technically). It's designed to be repetitive.

squidgod2000
08-12-2014, 05:29 AM
I really wish we had a higher retention rate, and people rightly find faults with the end/elder game. I know the devs have some plans for this, but for new things we probably have to wait until the end of the TV season as they are tied up with crossover content.

Man, I can't even imagine the endgame getting any worse...

...but apparently the devs can.

430005
08-12-2014, 05:39 AM
but for new things we probably have to wait until the end of the TV season as they are tied up with nerfing everything into the ground

Fixed that for you.


...but apparently the devs can.

Yes, we can!

LegendaryU2K
08-12-2014, 11:15 AM
Well he's not attacking me. I was just pointing out that this game is not pay to win lol. People always say that about games, and no game is really pay to win. Its more like " pay to enjoy ". Not defiance, but most online games are pay to enjoy.

As for defiance it self. This game is far from bored. I have fun just riding around town helping out people i see on the map, coming to their aid. Or i have fun, just finding cool items. There was another game i use to play but quit 4 months ago, i was looking for a game to replace it with. meaning, everything defiance has, that game did not. So I'm happy to play this. I honestly dont see how this game can get bored with so much stuff to do. Reminds me of GTA 3, which i had for years, still not bored yet.

My advice, play other games and just come back to defiance from to time . But good luck i guess.

Bacon Overlord
08-12-2014, 11:23 AM
Well aware that this post most likely will get removed and med banned from the forums, I still have to speak up.
I would like to state that I do enjoy playing defiance and I do like the concept of the game.
But when that is said, of late, latest changes have made this game uninteresting to me.

I will now list some of the reasons why Defiance has reached this status to me.

1) Empty servers.
Defiance is a MMO. There for the servers should be crowded. A game must hold some sort of co-op before it is interesting to me. I want to play games with my friends and meet new friends. I see the empty servers as a respond, from the gaming community, to Trion as a farewell. And many of my friends have said that and wowed they will never buy another Trion game again.

2) Pay-to-win
The free-to-play bit is to me a cover-up for introducing Pay-to-win. We see this as the drastically reduced numbers of keycodes and arkforge, which have been made essential in order to get better weapons. Top this up with the outrageous prices we are offered to buy the illusive arkforge and we got the worst concept in gaming. Pay-to-win.

3) No fun playing
The repetitive tasks/quests/pursuits etc. has made defiance boring. The has to been something new. Something to entertain us. Something to achieve.
I will however agree that Trion is trying, but it is not working. As I see their efforts, we gamers are runners trying to do a race, and Trion, every time we get close to the finish line, they prolong the race. Same stuff just takes a bit longer. Boring!!
Bring in something really new. Like clan halls and clan outfits and cars. Or let us make events, not just death marches, but incursions, sieges and arkfalls. Introduce weapon forging. And make it so everyone can afford it.

4) Progress - Sense of purpose
There also has to be an experience of progress. A sense of purpose. Both in game and on the forums.
It is not very smart, for whatever reason, a statement was made that, we gamers, were playing the game wrong. To be fair, this is second hand information to me, but it goes very well in line with my other experiences. But if we gamers are not playing the game as Trion wishes, then try to change the game dynamics in a way for us to do so. Do not go blaming the community for undesired gaming behaviour when you, Trion, have the full control over the dynamics.
Another thing. Making forums where we, gamers, can help you, Trion, to make the game work better by submitting error/bug reports, and many do, but we get ignored. At best we get a reply, but nothing gets fixed. Only bug that are beneficial to the gamers gets fixed. If Trion think they lose out on a bug, it gets fixed the day after. But when it improves the gaming experience it takes forever if it ever gets fixed.
By going at it like that people gets the feeling that Trion do not care about their community, and the community are returning the favour.
In game progress has been terminated as well. As I mentioned in 2) Pay-to-win, it is now nearly impossible to accumulate arkforge, which is essential for progress in Defiance. After the latest patches I would be lucky if I could get 500 arkforge in a month. Which to me is ridiculous, since the demand for arkforge is growing each day. 2 week ago I summed up my need for arkforge. If I was to upgrade all my weapons to highest rarity. You know what, I needed 34.000 arkforge. And this is not including any rerolls of a weapons mastery. This is wrong!! And my appreciation for does not cover that timeframe.

Where does this leave me?
I will most like get banned. Feeling a bit depressed that a game that could be so great is not. But still at peace, because I too, will not buy or spend any money on a Trion game ever again. I simply cannot see why. If Trion does not change how they treat their users, I won't participate. I cannot trust Trion not to screw me over again.
But if Trion suddenly decides to wake up, and try to mend things by sorting out the issues I have with Defiance in its immediate state, I won't hesitate keep playing. Looking forward to what action Trion will take.
Best of luck.

Yours truly
Horup79

Umm.. is this a joke?

Just curious since.. none of that. Pretty much none of it. Makes any sense or is even true.

If anything there are too many people in each shard, instance, phase.. whatever you want to call it... The game has a purpose, otherwise you wouldn't have played it or posted that. The "pay to win" is nothing of the kind. You can play the game from start to finish without spending a dime.

Common misconception: Pay To Win means you actually HAVE To buy something in order to get through the game. Very few games are based on that premise. Given the fact that there are so many different types of social media anymore, usually they get dimed out right away. You can, however, pay for convenience items that don't given an unfair advantage (say in PVP) but allow the buyer something they feel has value. That's simply called the F2P architecture.

Perchta
08-12-2014, 11:45 AM
Defiance isn't pay to win. For it to be so Trion would have to start selling store only super weapons, boosts, spikes and stims that could only be had via paying real life cash. Like a Tech Mag Pulser based on the best available in game version but with a increase in all stats by 10%+.

Take WoT(world of tanks) they sell Gold rounds. If you sling only Gold rounds which cost real life money (you can get with tons of in game earned credits now) you have a distinct advantage over someone slinging only regular ammo. Last time I played there were still people arguing that Gold rounds were pay to win. The same was said of some of WoT's real life cash Premium tanks. In some cases it was true, especially in the hands of someone or a group that knew how to over come the weaknesses of a Premium tank and exploit the positives. Nothing like the fun of a well practiced squad of 3-5 TOG IIs that know how to roll. TOG jokes can be funny.

There are pay to win armors in some games that when you wear them they are pretty much immune to every enemy damage type except perhaps one. So you carry a second of armor for when you go against an enemy that uses that damage type. That's pay to win.

Defiance lockboxes are nothing but slot machines.

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 11:49 AM
It does look like we are on a downward trend after the release of F2P, I'm hoping that it levels off at a higher level than we had mid last season.

I really wish we had a higher retention rate, and people rightly find faults with the end/elder game. I know the devs have some plans for this, but for new things we probably have to wait until the end of the TV season as they are tied up with crossover content.

http://i.imgur.com/7VIROa2.png

That graph is pretty horrid.

Nairozet
08-12-2014, 11:52 AM
I still don't understand why people whine, complain about them game, give no positive feedback or just try to annoy everyone in game (any combination is possible and not limited to one), instead of just leaving.

The argumentation often used also feels flawed. "I have put so much time into this game" or "I invested so much money in this game".
How are these valid arguments to stay, get stressed, get annoyed and have no fun anymore? There are more than enough other games out there to play and what's more, there's also a whole -real- world out there to explore.
Perhaps i am weird in this way, but if a game did indeed go down to the drain (as a lot are basically calling it), i go away. No matter how much time and/or money i've put into it.

Bacon Overlord
08-12-2014, 11:54 AM
I still don't understand why people whine, complain about them game, give no positive feedback or just try to annoy everyone in game (any combination is possible and not limited to one), instead of just leaving.

The argumentation often used also feels flawed. "I have put so much time into this game" or "I invested so much money in this game".
How are these valid arguments to stay, get stressed, get annoyed and have no fun anymore? There are more than enough other games out there to play and what's more, there's also a whole -real- world out there to explore.
Perhaps i am weird in this way, but if a game did indeed go down to the drain (as a lot are basically calling it), i go away. No matter how much time and/or money i've put into it.

Welcome to the Defiance forums.. where negativity is like rain.

Of course, it's the same 3 or 4 trolls that live here and turn it into a cesspool of toxicity, but they're pretty easy to spot.

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 11:55 AM
Welcome to the Defiance forums.. where negativity is like rain.

Of course, it's the same 3 or 4 trolls that live here and turn it into a cesspool of toxicity, but they're pretty easy to spot.

Said your mom!

Bacon Overlord
08-12-2014, 11:58 AM
Said your mom!

"Wow, can't believe Konstantinov said that and sounded just like one of the aforementioned trolls! They NEVER troll......."

Said no one, ever.

Riandra
08-12-2014, 12:00 PM
This post reminds me of the posts on Blizzard forums and CCP (EVE Online) forums that X game is dying!

DYING!

Yet years later it is still going strong.

horup79, it sounds like you have played Defiance out of all you'll get out of it. There is nothing wrong with that.

I stopped playing WoW. I stopped playing EVE Online. Both are still going strong and both haven't died just because I stopped playing them.

Where this leaves you is simple: move on. Although the fact that you are posting is indicative that you probably won't move on. You just needed a moment to vent some frustration and you'll continue to play as one of those jaded veterans that most MMOs wind up having after being around for awhile.

To address your points:

Empty Servers: This could have fooled me. I have seen people everywhere I go when I'm online. But that might just be a function of the when I am online. If I check out steamcharts for Defiance there is definitely a downward trend of the number of concurrent players online at any given moment. Given that I imagine if one was online during the peak and then came on now they might notice a decline in players of around 30-40% but that still doesn't make the servers empty.

Pay-to-win: Nothing I have seen indicates that the game is pay-to-win or going the direction of pay-to-win. The game is definitely free-to-play and has purchaseable elements in it but I haven't noticed anything that someone can buy that someone who doesn't spend money on cannot get (except perhaps stuff locked behind DLCs?)

No Fun Playing: This is a common enough issue with any game after playing it for a long time. If you've reached this point I would suggest taking a break or just leaving the game entirely. Why play a game if it isn't fun?

Progress: Solid point. It seems that the game is lacking a vision at the moment. Still, that doesn't prevent the game from being enjoyable for what it is.

I'm not sure why you'd get banned for posting what you posted. I'd be surprised if you were banned for it but I'm new enough to be fresh faced and innocent. :)

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 12:01 PM
"Wow, can't believe Konstantinov said that and sounded just like one of the aforementioned trolls!"

Said no one, ever.

I had bacon last night for dinner. It was delicious.

Seriously though, you seem pretty mad about all the posts then jump on the bandwagon of like yeah go nerf!! Then you like to ask stupid stupid stupid questions after pretending to know everything about everything. How many times were you dropped on your head as a baby? I've never met someone that sounds so stupid in my life. Congrats you win the stupid stupid stupid droolfest award.

Bacon Overlord
08-12-2014, 12:04 PM
This post reminds me of the posts on Blizzard forums and CCP (EVE Online) forums that X game is dying!

DYING!

Yet years later it is still going strong.

horup79, it sounds like you have played Defiance out of all you'll get out of it. There is nothing wrong with that.

I stopped playing WoW. I stopped playing EVE Online. Both are still going strong and both haven't died just because I stopped playing them.

Where this leaves you is simple: move on. Although the fact that you are posting is indicative that you probably won't move on. You just needed a moment to vent some frustration and you'll continue to play as one of those jaded veterans that most MMOs wind up having after being around for awhile.

To address your points:

Empty Servers: This could have fooled me. I have seen people everywhere I go when I'm online. But that might just be a function of the when I am online. If I check out steamcharts for Defiance there is definitely a downward trend of the number of concurrent players online at any given moment. Given that I imagine if one was online during the peak and then came on now they might notice a decline in players of around 30-40% but that still doesn't make the servers empty.

Pay-to-win: Nothing I have seen indicates that the game is pay-to-win or going the direction of pay-to-win. The game is definitely free-to-play and has purchaseable elements in it but I haven't noticed anything that someone can buy that someone who doesn't spend money on cannot get (except perhaps stuff locked behind DLCs?)

No Fun Playing: This is a common enough issue with any game after playing it for a long time. If you've reached this point I would suggest taking a break or just leaving the game entirely. Why play a game if it isn't fun?

Progress: Solid point. It seems that the game is lacking a vision at the moment. Still, that doesn't prevent the game from being enjoyable for what it is.

I'm not sure why you'd get banned for posting what you posted. I'd be surprised if you were banned for it but I'm new enough to be fresh faced and innocent. :)

Warning! Logical post! Troll attack imminent!

Careful about posting things that make sense in here.. You're likely to be picked apart by the Trion haters. They don't want good points, solid arguments or even facts.

They just want to whine and complain and pout about the things they don't like and ruin the game experience for everyone (to include themselves). For some reason, they can't just let go and click another game to play. They want to complain constantly on here.

It's really sad, actually and is exactly what you posted about them not having fun playing.

Games change, that's what keeps them fresh. If you maxed out your weapons early-on you'd be bored out of your mind when you greyed out your bar.

The way people should look at these changes: A time to figure out new things and try new combinations of mods and skills to try to make the best of it. It gives them an excuse to farm again.

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 12:05 PM
Warning! Logical post! Troll attack imminent!

Careful about posting things that make sense in here.. You're likely to be picked apart by the Trion haters. They don't want good points, solid arguments or even facts.

They just want to whine and complain and pout about the things they don't like and ruin the game experience for everyone (to include themselves). For some reason, they can't just let go and click another game to play. They want to complain constantly on here.

It's really sad, actually and is exactly what you posted about them not having fun playing.

Games change, that's what keeps them fresh. If you maxed out your weapons early-on you'd be bored out of your mind when you greyed out your bar.

The way people should look at these changes: A time to figure out new things and try new combinations of mods and skills to try to make the best of it. It gives them an excuse to farm again.

You like to complain about the complainers. Where's your validity now?

dramaQkarri
08-12-2014, 12:07 PM
You like to complain about the complainers. Where's your validity now?

quoted for truth

Bacon Overlord
08-12-2014, 12:07 PM
I had bacon last night for dinner. It was delicious.

Seriously though, you seem pretty mad about all the posts then jump on the bandwagon of like yeah go nerf!! Then you like to ask stupid stupid stupid questions after pretending to know everything about everything. How many times were you dropped on your head as a baby? I've never met someone that sounds so stupid in my life. Congrats you win the stupid stupid stupid droolfest award.

What worries me (actually more than your grasp of English) is why you're so interested in what I have to say?

Infatuation? Fetishism? Just good old-fashioned stalker tendencies?

Well.. feel free not to answer that, because we'd like to get back to the topic.

K?

Thaaaaanks.

Bacon Overlord
08-12-2014, 12:09 PM
You like to complain about the complainers. Where's your validity now?

You just validated what I said........... Irony.

Kinda obvious, really. But, thanks for the support? Even though it was totally unintentional, lol.

Wow...

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 12:09 PM
What worries me (actually more than your grasp of English) is why you're so interested in what I have to say?

Infatuation? Fetishism? Just good old-fashioned stalker tendencies?

Well.. feel free not to answer that, because we'd like to get back to the topic.

K?

Thaaaaanks.

HAHAHAHA.



Your post made absolutely no sense. Don't worry you're certain to pass the 5th grade this time. 30th time is the charm.

Bacon Overlord
08-12-2014, 12:13 PM
HAHAHAHA.



Your post made absolutely no sense. Don't worry you're certain to pass the 5th grade this time. 30th time is the charm.

Thanks.. you're being really supportive today. Every time I post something, you prove me right.

It's like you're trying to be my best friend.

I don't need your support though.

Thanks.

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 12:15 PM
Thanks.. you're being really supportive today. Every time I post something, you prove me right.

It's like you're trying to be my best friend.

I don't need your support though.

Thanks.

You need a therapist and most likely ativan/prozac.

drackiller
08-12-2014, 12:15 PM
Thanks.. you're being really supportive today. Every time I post something, you prove me right.

It's like you're trying to be my best friend.

I don't need your support though.

Thanks.
Relax dude. You are answering in every post and you expect people not replying also!?
This is a forum, if you can`t stand the heat of your own flames just stop making fires.

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 12:16 PM
Relax dude. You are answering in every post and you expect people not replying also!?
This is a forum, if you can`t stand the heat of your own flames just stop making fires.

For the record drac, "I ain't got no water let the motherf***er burn."

Bacon Overlord
08-12-2014, 12:17 PM
Relax dude. You are answering in every post and you expect people not replying also!?
This is a forum, if you can`t stand the heat of your own flames just stop making fires.

That's the funny part about fires. They can be put out. In the case of this forum it appears that it takes about 50 times being reported, but eventually it will get handled.

There's a difference between responding with constructive criticism and being outright rude or trying to troll.

I don't think there's any question which has happened in this thread.

SilverWF
08-12-2014, 12:21 PM
This game isn't paid to win. One of my characters is at 350 ego,

Stopped reading here, coz facepalming hard

Lawnmandammitt
08-12-2014, 12:21 PM
You guys realize, You two sound like a couple breaking up?

Xeifer
08-12-2014, 12:23 PM
It does look like we are on a downward trend after the release of F2P, I'm hoping that it levels off at a higher level than we had mid last season.

I really wish we had a higher retention rate, and people rightly find faults with the end/elder game. I know the devs have some plans for this, but for new things we probably have to wait until the end of the TV season as they are tied up with crossover content.

http://i.imgur.com/7VIROa2.png

For me, part of the retention issue because whilst the game is an absolute riot when you start and a lot of fun, there isn't much variety. The world doesn't encourage exploration because it's all much of muchness, one mine looks the same as the next, and the events are all basically the same thing. It's fun, don't get me wrong, but it hasn't got much lasting appeal as a world I want to virtually 'live' in. It's exactly the sort of game I'll drop into now and then, but I can't see myself exclusively playing for months on end (or years on end as I did with WoW)

drackiller
08-12-2014, 12:25 PM
That's the funny part about fires. They can be put out. In the case of this forum it appears that it takes about 50 times being reported, but eventually it will get handled.

There's a difference between responding with constructive criticism and being outright rude or trying to troll.

I don't think there's any question which has happened in this thread.

You have your point of view and your problem is that you want people to agree with you no matter what.
Looks like you are trying to doctrinate the way people think and you are not succeeding in that particular aspect.

And it also looks like that you are one of those people that wants by any means to have the last word, fine by me i don`t care.

It`s hard to discuss twisted logic.

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 12:28 PM
You have your point of view and your problem is that you want people to agree with you no matter what.
Looks like you are trying to doctrinate the way people think and you are not succeeding in that particular aspect.

And it also looks like that you are one of those people that wants by any means to have the last word, fine by me i don`t care.

It`s hard to discuss twisted logic.

Isn't it weird he tried this same stuff like a week ago and everyone jumped on his case? Geez if only this was a dictatorship and not a forum where everyone can say something.

Dandrielas
08-12-2014, 12:33 PM
Isn't it weird he tried this same stuff like a week ago and everyone jumped on his case? Geez if only this was a dictatorship and not a forum where everyone can say something.

Eh, I generally try not to respond to what he says. Pick your battles.

TAG
08-12-2014, 12:34 PM
This game isn't paid to win. One of my characters is at 350 ego, and i have 6 great guns , 30keys, and over 50k. And i do just fine playing any mission, coop, pvp. As for no fun playing? are you serious? There's so much stuff to do, pvp, pve, coop with different maps, exploring, leveling up, helping people, nice story, lots of missions, side quests. etc.

9/10 IMO

When you buy a score boost and beat everyone without one, that is pay to win.

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 12:34 PM
Eh, I generally try not to respond to what he says. Pick your battles.

You're right I'm going to do better because in the end "you can't fix stupid". A wise redneck once said that.

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 12:35 PM
When you buy a score boost and beat everyone without one, that is pay to win.

Buying a box that gives you 100 rep instead of doing a week's worth of work is also pay to win.

Dandrielas
08-12-2014, 12:38 PM
You're right I'm going to do better because in the end "you can't fix stupid". A wise redneck once said that.

Dukes of hazard?

N3gativeCr33p
08-12-2014, 12:39 PM
Buying a box that gives you 100 rep instead of doing a week's worth of work is also pay to win.

But hey... it's still a 9/10.

*ducks*

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 12:40 PM
But hey... it's still a 9/10.

*ducks*

Like a hard 9 or a soft 9? I'm leaning towards a 3 on a good day. A soft 3 at that.

TAG
08-12-2014, 12:42 PM
Buying a box that gives you 100 rep instead of doing a week's worth of work is also pay to win.

Yeah, it's hard to stay interested with all these changes, a lot for the worse. The whole back and forth with Trion (giving something and taking away) makes me feel like an old toxic relationship with an ex gf.

N3gativeCr33p
08-12-2014, 12:43 PM
Like a hard 9 or a soft 9? I'm leaning towards a 3 on a good day. A soft 3 at that.

Oh, you know it.

Saying this is a 9/10 just leads me to believe that the person saying it hasn't played many 9/10s in the first place. Goes in one ear and right out the other.

jackdaws_1999
08-12-2014, 12:44 PM
To all those who say defiance is NOT pay to win, I would argue the contrary. I believe that there is a sliding scale of Pay to win:
- starting with the slightest form, boosts... defiance has those, check.
- Then further down the scale, things you cannot get without purchase.... check, defiance has those too.
- Even further down the scale you get premium currency that is the ONLY source for doing certain things; this is usually atainable through HUGE amounts of farming, ranging from a few days to a few weeks to get enough to do something, whereas you could always BUY it from the store to make things easier and quicker than someone NOT willing to do this... oh wait... thats a check also... Defiance has this too.
- Ok onto the next level down, random chests you can BUY things from that you cannot get in game that give you a chance at something you could not normally get... You do know about the Powertech and Biohazzard lockboxes right?
- Ok moving on down, buying equipment that gives you an edge or early lead... T4 epic Mod Hoard... yip thats a check.
- Next level down, things that can only be gotten through purchase alone... dlc weapons like the zagger... check.
Fortunately defiance currently doesnt decend any deeper than this, past this point you start getting into the realms of "pay to complete" missions or skip missions, and even down as far as "pay to gain places on leaderboards".

With regards the arkforge, keycode, scrip and salvage nerfs we all recently got handed to us, this playes into the "its easier to pay than farm" element of the above. If they continue to limit farmable resources, while keeping the resources needed to continue at their current levels (have you tried keeping a legendary weapon at your ego and going from 1000 to 5900... I have... its not cheap), this pushes further down the scale of pay to win.

Do not ever kid yourself, this game is Pay To Win, and from now on, always will be till they turn the servers off. I sincerly hope that isnt for a long time yet. But after trion repeatedly stated that this game would not be and never would be Pay to Win, and then did it anyway, you can see that those of us who invested in it because it wasnt going to be p2w might feel slightly agrieved. As such it suprises me not that people are getting annoyed.

If you went to a shop, saw a loaf of bread that said "does not contain nuts at all, never has and never will" and you took it home, opened it and found nuts... you would be annoyed. If you bought a car that advertised "this car never needs its oil changed" and then found out that actually, it needs changed EVERY single week, you would be annoyed. If you vote for a politician because they say one thing.. ok bad example... but you get the drift... You Pay for something, you dont expect to find its NOT what you paid for, invested LOTS of money in, only to find out, they decided that lovely plot of land that was being kept as a nature reserve, is now an industrial park, you would be just a tad annoyed, just a tiny bit peeved, just a slight bit royally ticked off...

Or maybe your the sort of person that doesnt go back to the shop and say "Hey, someone spat in my burger" or the sort of person that accepts a punch to the face as "just being one of the lads", or the sort of person who gets gropped on a train by that stinky hobo, and just smiles and accepts it... if you are, then fair enough, but dont complain when someone else feels betrayed and stands up for their principles. I personally believe in standing up for my beliefs... I certainly hope you would do the same.

As I said, this is MY opinion on pay to win, just happens to be alot of the people I hang around withs as well, but then I must be in a minority group, as all the people I know didnt want to break the locks till we were all ready to kill the warmaster...

jackdaws_1999
08-12-2014, 12:47 PM
Sorry for the wall of text there... I am particularly passionate about p2w and the damage that particular business model has done to the games industry. As an indie developer, I am very much in the "games should be made for fun first, profits follow fun" camp as opposed to the "Lets make some profit... and hope that someone finds that fun" camp.

N3gativeCr33p
08-12-2014, 12:51 PM
As an indie developer, I am very much in the "games should be made for fun first, profits follow fun" camp as opposed to the "Lets make some profit... and hope that someone finds that fun" camp.

I like supporting developers like this. It's something that I wish more gaming companies out there would strive for. Greed is eating the industry alive, it would seem.

TAG
08-12-2014, 12:52 PM
Nothing to be sorry about you're just saying whats on everyone's mind. Trion really closed the door for a rehash of another Trion title.

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 12:52 PM
Yeah, it's hard to stay interested with all these changes, a lot for the worse. The whole back and forth with Trion (giving something and taking away) makes me feel like an old toxic relationship with an ex gf.

Well if you word it that way, we're in an abusive relationship.


Oh, you know it.

Saying this is a 9/10 just leads me to believe that the person saying it hasn't played many 9/10s in the first place. Goes in one ear and right out the other.

Or it's a skewed scale. My cat potato is a 10.

N3gativeCr33p
08-12-2014, 12:54 PM
Or it's a skewed scale. My cat potato is a 10.

Yeah I can see that... I would give all of my fish a 10, now that you mention pets.

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 12:55 PM
Yeah I can see that... I would give all of my fish a 10, now that you mention pets.

My boxer is a 2/10 because she's dumb. Has some crazy eyes to go along with it. Who walks not runs into walls? She does.

Amaka
08-12-2014, 12:57 PM
This game isn't paid to win.

True. I've seen many games far more worse than this.. Specially what becomes for the company money hoarding.

Etaew
08-12-2014, 01:00 PM
http://i.imgur.com/7VIROa2.png
Just some context so it's not all doom and gloom.

http://i.imgur.com/6C2MxDW.png
http://www.defiancedata.com/stats.php

Visitor numbers aren't dropping that drastically on DD, will like to see how consoles going F2P affect them.

TAG
08-12-2014, 01:01 PM
1. If you're in the dark about what's going on and he (or she) isn't doing anything to explain or can't come up with a plausible explanation of what is happening with the future of the relationship - you're being played.

2. If the person suddenly pulls back from being fully involved (initiating contact, responding to your texts, emails, calls etc) to zero involvement (ignoring you or in a rush to get away) and he (or she) doesn't care that his (or her) actions are hurting you - you're being played.

3. If he (or she) is always saying he (or she) doesn't have "enough" time for you but he (or she) seems to have enough time to do everything else including go out on other dates - you're being played.

4. If he (or she) comes across as too good to be true or his (or her) words don't always match his (or her) actions - you're being played.

5. If he (or she) spends more time telling you that the relationship is neither right nor going anywhere, it is always the case that he (or she) is living down to his/her expectations - you're being played and wasting your time.

Iceberg
08-12-2014, 01:01 PM
Like a hard 9 or a soft 9? I'm leaning towards a 3 on a good day. A soft 3 at that.

Do you prefer hard or soft? :P

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 01:02 PM
1. If you're in the dark about what's going on and he (or she) isn't doing anything to explain or can't come up with a plausible explanation of what is happening with the future of the relationship - you're being played.

2. If the person suddenly pulls back from being fully involved (initiating contact, responding to your texts, emails, calls etc) to zero involvement (ignoring you or in a rush to get away) and he (or she) doesn't care that his (or her) actions are hurting you - you're being played.

3. If he (or she) is always saying he (or she) doesn't have "enough" time for you but he (or she) seems to have enough time to do everything else including go out on other dates - you're being played.

4. If he (or she) comes across as too good to be true or his (or her) words don't always match his (or her) actions - you're being played.

5. If he (or she) spends more time telling you that the relationship is neither right nor going anywhere, it is always the case that he (or she) is living down to his/her expectations - you're being played and wasting your time.

I think it's time for a serious talk.

Dinova
08-12-2014, 01:04 PM
Sorry for the wall of text there... I am particularly passionate about p2w and the damage that particular business model has done to the games industry. As an indie developer, I am very much in the "games should be made for fun first, profits follow fun" camp as opposed to the "Lets make some profit... and hope that someone finds that fun" camp.
Fun doesnt pay bills, fun doesnt give unlimited dataservers and bandwidth. Look up the recent report on indie's, only a small ammount of devs actualy make enough money to make a living, most its just some 'expense coverage' of their hobbies (though that include indies that make stuff for tablet and phones).

Since the early days people can pay for 'extra' stuff ingame (be it cosmetics or gameplay wise), there were people yelling 'NOT FAIR!!!'. Same goes for DLC on the major games (hello Battlefield..) or 'boost packs'.

The more competative the game is, the more likely it will have a 'P2W' aspect, but still those games are popular as hell. sadly its a 'hype' nowaydays to call anything P2W that give you any form of advantage (what advantage would there actualy be in a coop game?) unfair and stupid. I agree there has to be a line of what can be obtained ingame and what not, as long its both ingame as in the shop, its just a simple thing of time=money and money=time.

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 01:05 PM
Do you prefer hard or soft? :P

I see what you did there. Sneaky sneaky.

jackdaws_1999
08-12-2014, 01:08 PM
Just some context so it's not all doom and gloom.

http://i.imgur.com/6C2MxDW.png
http://www.defiancedata.com/stats.php

Visitor numbers aren't dropping that drastically on DD, will like to see how consoles going F2P affect them.

Yes, but DD works... as was intended... and we have you to thanks kind sir :)

Joking aside... DD works, defiance does not. Sure both could do with a larger team to help out... but I think you have more chance at that than the defiance team as it stands, which is a shame, Im sure that if they threw 5 more devs at it, and left them locked in a room for a month, defiance would be worlds better than it is.

I dont believe the game is dead, I believe the direction this game has taken may need re-thinking, but the game isnt dead... dying... on dialasis... maybe even writing its will, but definately not dead. We have a very passionate community, and like with other games with passionate communities, this game will get carried for a ways yet. I love each and every one of you... ok love is a bit strong... I Like each and every.... ok Like is a bit strong.... I tollerate each and every one of the community (and that is saying something.. I usually hate everyone equally), and as such hope to see the developers do that community proud... Im the eternally pessimistic Optimist for defiance.

TAG
08-12-2014, 01:11 PM
I think it's time for a serious talk.


or a serious jam session

14yy7gQgt_w

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 01:12 PM
or a serious jam session

14yy7gQgt_w

Good song choice.

TAG
08-12-2014, 01:13 PM
Good song choice.
have another
09wdQP1FFR0

Elco
08-12-2014, 01:13 PM
To all those who say defiance is NOT pay to win, I would argue the contrary. I believe that there is a sliding scale of Pay to win:
- starting with the slightest form, boosts... defiance has those, check.
- Then further down the scale, things you cannot get without purchase.... check, defiance has those too.
- Even further down the scale you get premium currency that is the ONLY source for doing certain things; this is usually atainable through HUGE amounts of farming, ranging from a few days to a few weeks to get enough to do something, whereas you could always BUY it from the store to make things easier and quicker than someone NOT willing to do this... oh wait... thats a check also... Defiance has this too.
- Ok onto the next level down, random chests you can BUY things from that you cannot get in game that give you a chance at something you could not normally get... You do know about the Powertech and Biohazzard lockboxes right?
- Ok moving on down, buying equipment that gives you an edge or early lead... T4 epic Mod Hoard... yip thats a check.
- Next level down, things that can only be gotten through purchase alone... dlc weapons like the zagger... check.
Fortunately defiance currently doesnt decend any deeper than this, past this point you start getting into the realms of "pay to complete" missions or skip missions, and even down as far as "pay to gain places on leaderboards".

With regards the arkforge, keycode, scrip and salvage nerfs we all recently got handed to us, this playes into the "its easier to pay than farm" element of the above. If they continue to limit farmable resources, while keeping the resources needed to continue at their current levels (have you tried keeping a legendary weapon at your ego and going from 1000 to 5900... I have... its not cheap), this pushes further down the scale of pay to win.

Do not ever kid yourself, this game is Pay To Win, and from now on, always will be till they turn the servers off. I sincerly hope that isnt for a long time yet. But after trion repeatedly stated that this game would not be and never would be Pay to Win, and then did it anyway, you can see that those of us who invested in it because it wasnt going to be p2w might feel slightly agrieved. As such it suprises me not that people are getting annoyed.

If you went to a shop, saw a loaf of bread that said "does not contain nuts at all, never has and never will" and you took it home, opened it and found nuts... you would be annoyed. If you bought a car that advertised "this car never needs its oil changed" and then found out that actually, it needs changed EVERY single week, you would be annoyed. If you vote for a politician because they say one thing.. ok bad example... but you get the drift... You Pay for something, you dont expect to find its NOT what you paid for, invested LOTS of money in, only to find out, they decided that lovely plot of land that was being kept as a nature reserve, is now an industrial park, you would be just a tad annoyed, just a tiny bit peeved, just a slight bit royally ticked off...

Or maybe your the sort of person that doesnt go back to the shop and say "Hey, someone spat in my burger" or the sort of person that accepts a punch to the face as "just being one of the lads", or the sort of person who gets gropped on a train by that stinky hobo, and just smiles and accepts it... if you are, then fair enough, but dont complain when someone else feels betrayed and stands up for their principles. I personally believe in standing up for my beliefs... I certainly hope you would do the same.

As I said, this is MY opinion on pay to win, just happens to be alot of the people I hang around withs as well, but then I must be in a minority group, as all the people I know didnt want to break the locks till we were all ready to kill the warmaster...

As a new player, all this talk of P2W is very concerning. I'm not sure how true it is because I don't understand all of the mechanics yet.

jackdaws_1999
08-12-2014, 01:25 PM
Fun doesnt pay bills...
Snip

Yes, but if you are so soley aimed at making profit, that you let the whole "this is a game" part disappear, you loose all hope for a game being fun... have you seen the latest Dungeon Master game? Defiance is currently treading a very FINE line between being a fair time vrs money investment (which lets face it, there are times where we all think "lets just save a bit of time there"), and being all out greedy money grabbing profiteers just looking to fleece some peoples wallets for a quick buck.

I barely pay the bills, but I dont care, I treat games design the way a painter treats art, or an actor treats macbeth, you put your all in, and just hope that something you do catches someones eye. I appreciate that this isnt a good long term business strategy, but then Im not in it for the dollar signs, if I were I would be working at activision or EA.... there is nothing wrong with either of these companies par se (just covering my *** incase one decides they want to buy an idea here), I just happen to disagree with their ethical approach to art... and games are art... interactive art... creative art... and art for the sake of money always sucks.

jackdaws_1999
08-12-2014, 01:32 PM
As a new player, all this talk of P2W is very concerning. I'm not sure how true it is because I don't understand all of the mechanics yet.

Dont be concerned, just play the game for the fun you can get out of it. Its a great idea of a game, its a diamond in the rough... I say in the rough, I mean still burried under a ton of rubble, locked away in some dictator ran country where you get shot for stealing bread let alone diamonds... But a diamond in the rough it is... this game COULD be one of the best games around... could be.

Play it, enjoy it, if you really like it, throw some money trions way, Im sure they could use it. But always remember, this game, when you get right down into it, at its core, is pay to win, albeit a lesser form of pay to win, but pay to win it is.

This game is like the small storm off the coast... always could turn into nothing and we were all worried for no reason... but occasionally, those storms turn into Hurricanes... and thats when those shoddy wooden walls just dont cut it... this is a really weird metaphor, so I shall leave it there before it blows itself to peices... moral of the crap metaphor is this....

Dont listen to me, what do I know, go play it for yourself, you never know, you may hate it and agree with me... in which case your crazy... or you could love it... in which case your crazy... either way, your crazy... get away from me crazy person.... aaaaarghhh theres a crazy person after me.... Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

Blur410 VelocitosEradicos
08-12-2014, 01:34 PM
Oh my, can't believe people are thinking Defiance is tanking, the devs have more than enough money. The devs are payed very well, so nobody should buy in on the crap the devs are pulling, saying they need to feed their children. U devs get payed at least 20$ an hour no matter how many bits you sell. Honestly, if they aren't making nuff money, they should work 3 jobs, just means less time at home. Hope nobody was offended, not naming any names. Defiance... And all that.


"I, Speed, Eradicate..."

konstantinov
08-12-2014, 01:35 PM
Oh my, can't believe people are thinking Defiance is tanking, the devs have more than enough money. The devs are payed very well, so nobody should buy in on the crap the devs are pulling, saying they need to feed their children. U devs get payed at least 20$ an hour no matter how many bits you sell. Honestly, if they aren't making nuff money, they should work 3 jobs, just means less time at home. Hope nobody was offended, not naming any names. Defiance... And all that.


"I, Speed, Eradicate..."

This is not factual.

Xeifer
08-12-2014, 02:53 PM
Sorry for the wall of text there... I am particularly passionate about p2w and the damage that particular business model has done to the games industry. As an indie developer, I am very much in the "games should be made for fun first, profits follow fun" camp as opposed to the "Lets make some profit... and hope that someone finds that fun" camp.

And I would throw money hand over fist at a developer like this - and enjoy doing so! What happened to being an ethical business.

Xeifer
08-12-2014, 03:03 PM
Fun doesnt pay bills, fun doesnt give unlimited dataservers and bandwidth. Look up the recent report on indie's, only a small ammount of devs actualy make enough money to make a living, most its just some 'expense coverage' of their hobbies (though that include indies that make stuff for tablet and phones).


I don't think anybody has an issue with companies making enough money to be financially viable (pay for wages, datacentres, bandwidth costs). Just do it in a ethical, fair and transparent way. The problem is we only seem to see either end of the scale, either it's indies who do it purely for the passion, or the EA's and Activisions of this world, for whom it's just a money making machine.

DeadEye68
08-12-2014, 03:14 PM
And I would throw money hand over fist at a developer like this - and enjoy doing so! What happened to being an ethical business.

It's not that much about ethics. You're more than willing to spend money when you feel a game is worth it, even when it's run by scumbags. I don't think people at Trion belong to that category, but right now spending money on Defiance is like paying for frustration and pain. Some may like it, but I'm not into BDSM.

Crasharr
08-12-2014, 03:14 PM
holy crap, what did you smoke !? i want some !


Dont be concerned, just play the game for the fun you can get out of it. Its a great idea of a game, its a diamond in the rough... I say in the rough, I mean still burried under a ton of rubble, locked away in some dictator ran country where you get shot for stealing bread let alone diamonds... But a diamond in the rough it is... this game COULD be one of the best games around... could be.

Play it, enjoy it, if you really like it, throw some money trions way, Im sure they could use it. But always remember, this game, when you get right down into it, at its core, is pay to win, albeit a lesser form of pay to win, but pay to win it is.

This game is like the small storm off the coast... always could turn into nothing and we were all worried for no reason... but occasionally, those storms turn into Hurricanes... and thats when those shoddy wooden walls just dont cut it... this is a really weird metaphor, so I shall leave it there before it blows itself to peices... moral of the crap metaphor is this....

Dont listen to me, what do I know, go play it for yourself, you never know, you may hate it and agree with me... in which case your crazy... or you could love it... in which case your crazy... either way, your crazy... get away from me crazy person.... aaaaarghhh theres a crazy person after me.... Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

DeadEye68
08-12-2014, 03:17 PM
holy crap, what did you smoke !? i want some !

That's something called enthusiasm, I remember feeling it a long, long time ago. I really miss it, everything feels so grey once you've lost it.

RobDaCool
08-12-2014, 03:40 PM
So much lag and disconnects, Defiance has to be one of the most unplayable games I've, well, ever tried to play.

MisfitSpunik
08-12-2014, 03:53 PM
Does anyone know that Trion has more games then just defiance? Just pointing out the bleeding obvious, if the very small chance defiance tanks I'm pretty sure they won't go out of business.

Tyrannos
08-12-2014, 04:35 PM
Hi everyone,

We feel that this thread has degenerated into a non-constructive discussion, so we've closed it. Please remember to keep your comments respectful and constructive at all times on our forums, even when you disagree with others.

If anyone has questions or concerns about this thread closure, please feel free to PM a member of the Community Team.

Thank you!