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Etaew
08-14-2014, 04:22 AM
I've been watching some new players stream the game going from mission and side mission at the start, they haven't been impressed and I've been pretty bored.

The game funnels players through missions, and has terrible placement at Earth Republic Camp sending them to the Dark Matter Base in San Francisco.

To prevent a negative experience, and to showcase the games more fun features, what would you want to highlight to new players instead of the current funnel?

Personally I'd like to get people involved as soon as we can into the mayhem and feeling of not being alone during a Major Arkfall, having them go from objective to objective culminating in a large encounter.

drackiller
08-14-2014, 04:47 AM
I think they shouldn`t have access to season 2 content before they finished at least the main story line.

tim jim
08-14-2014, 04:54 AM
what drac said, i helped a 34 ego char though the s2ep01 mission, arriving at the dm base i lvld the threat to 7 and there was 4 others there, felt horrible and then had to carry them through it, and they did not know any better, bring back the monoliith stopping instant access to san fran, it's one of the few places that felt like we had earned access to it it will also stop players getting in so far over there heads so quickly

drackiller
08-14-2014, 04:57 AM
what drac said, i helped a 34 ego char though the s2ep01 mission, arriving at the dm base i lvld the threat to 7 and there was 4 others there, felt horrible and then had to carry them through it, and they did not know any better, bring back the monoliith stopping instant access to san fran, it's one of the few places that felt like we had earned access to it it will also stop players getting in so far over there heads so quickly

The Monolith was taken off the bridge because people whined that it was too hard...but he was there to ensure that people leveled up properly and also properly learned the game mechanics.
People want it easy and hand kissed these days.

tim jim
08-14-2014, 05:07 AM
and the catering to it is what has made this great game only enjoyable, instead of the ground breaking, record shattering game it could have been they listen to the whiners and yeah were left with this...mess fun fun,

250k score for 10 keycodes and 2 arkforge great fun :-( i'm not spending another cent
(ticked me off my main got perma banned for trying to get devs attention over a serious exploit/glitch) so i'll just take whats given to me, no point bringing up another toon when my main gets the treatment it does, pity, i had high hopes for this game at first purchase, should have realised because grenades was only the first sign

crazyged
08-14-2014, 05:09 AM
Yeah, that's the problem when people complain too much - you sometimes get what you wished for...

Etaew
08-14-2014, 05:12 AM
I don't disagree folks, but can we try and keep this on topic about how we would like to improve the starting experience and introduction to the game? :)

Tsort
08-14-2014, 05:27 AM
Without rolling back scaling? I really don't see how.

Maybe add a banner at Mt Tam that would read

"Welcome to Grief-Land
(population = trolled and decreasing)
Stay alone if you wanna survive
Our sense of progression is now *ss-backwards.
The more you fire your gun, the worse it gets
Enjoy your stay... no... please stay! Please!"

Sliverbaer
08-14-2014, 05:30 AM
I never liked it when you first jump the wall, you get multiple characters you've never been introduced to start jibber jabbering to you while you haven't even started the first mission.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpbGnoM8dYc[/QUOTE]

That was back in april when DLC5 was released. Could be more now?

I had run a standard coop the other day and got in with 3 ~350 EGO people. I just loaded up my BMG and kept them healed the entire map. Can't think of anything else to help without modification of the game....

Unique One
08-14-2014, 05:34 AM
As someone who started with the F2P launch, I am one of those that headed to the dark matter base early on. For me it didn't turn out too badly though, and I opened up useful teleport points, and ran some arkfalls, etc, on my way there.

I was enjoying the game a lot, and was purchasing a DLC and BITS each week.

The real problem is not so much the missions/progression. It is that I can't afford to keep even one favorite gun at my EGO rating. The enemies all scale up but my guns constantly deteriorate. Even before the nerf to AF (and to a lesser degree loot), I could not keep the orange items I had anywhere near at my level. Now I can't even keep one purple. And the faction items I spent weeks getting are now all 500+ ego below my level.

I held on to very few oranges, and vendored them knowing I had no reason to buy mods for them. This was obviously what trion interperated as people throwing away good items. A completely incorrect diagnosis of the real issue - why upgrade/use what I know I can only use for a day or two?

So yeah, mission progression was not my issue. Bad design of the equipment system and a bad enemy scaling system was.

Sliverbaer
08-14-2014, 05:54 AM
As someone who started with the F2P launch, I am one of those that headed to the dark matter base early on. For me it didn't turn out too badly though, and I opened up useful teleport points, and ran some arkfalls, etc, on my way there.

I was enjoying the game a lot, and was purchasing a DLC and BITS each week.

The real problem is not so much the missions/progression. It is that I can't afford to keep even one favorite gun at my EGO rating. The enemies all scale up but my guns constantly deteriorate. Even before the nerf to AF (and to a lesser degree loot), I could not keep the orange items I had anywhere near at my level. Now I can't even keep one purple. And the faction items I spent weeks getting are now all 500+ ego below my level.

I held on to very few oranges, and vendored them knowing I had no reason to buy mods for them. This was obviously what trion interperated as people throwing away good items. A completely incorrect diagnosis of the real issue - why upgrade/use what I know I can only use for a day or two?

So yeah, mission progression was not my issue. Bad design of the equipment system and a bad enemy scaling system was.

Very well said. Upgrading weapons should be easy. I'd like that they level up with you as you use them instead of pumping Arkforge into them. Or even using Ark Salvage to upgrade instead.

Unique One
08-14-2014, 06:05 AM
Very well said. Upgrading weapons should be easy. I'd like that they level up with you as you use them instead of pumping Arkforge into them. Or even using Ark Salvage to upgrade instead.

Exactly.

Unfortunately getting the developers to notice the obvious is like pulling teeth... They think we are just whining, when in reality we are worried about a game we love. We only complain because we care.

NeuroticHitman
08-14-2014, 06:12 AM
I've been watching some new players stream the game going from mission and side mission at the start, they haven't been impressed and I've been pretty bored.

The game funnels players through missions, and has terrible placement at Earth Republic Camp sending them to the Dark Matter Base in San Francisco.

To prevent a negative experience, and to showcase the games more fun features, what would you want to highlight to new players instead of the current funnel?

Personally I'd like to get people involved as soon as we can into the mayhem and feeling of not being alone during a Major Arkfall, having them go from objective to objective culminating in a large encounter.

One thing that I never liked when I would start new "gear grinders" was the lack of weaponry. I understand the need for an introduction- "That's a shotgun, use it for....", "That is a auto-pistol..." and so on. When your EGO tells you to go to the weapons cache, you ought to be able to choose one / two from an assortment of weapons (which should be based on your character class-Veteran, Machinist...etc etc). Character classes don't serve any purpose other than how your character initially looks when you start the game. It should have been set up where each class was either:
A)Only able to use weapons of certain types for the given class.
(like Battlefield, Ghost Recon...et al)
B)Higher skill levels for certain weapons based on character class.

Also,
Instead of dropping you in the far upper left corner of the map (which never made sense to me unless you were to "Discover" the map as you progressed through the game-which would have been cooler too) the wreckage should have been somewhat more centrally located. It feels entirely too deliberate being in the corner. BUT, since the inception of the "vertical progression system" this idea would be a bad one.

Too many ideas that I have would be based on what Defiance WAS...not what it is today.

Etaew
08-14-2014, 06:16 AM
I never liked it when you first jump the wall, you get multiple characters you've never been introduced to start jibber jabbering to you while you haven't even started the first mission.

Completely agree :)

Etaew
08-14-2014, 06:17 AM
Very well said. Upgrading weapons should be easy. I'd like that they level up with you as you use them instead of pumping Arkforge into them. Or even using Ark Salvage to upgrade instead.

Definitely, weapons should level up with use. Arkforge should be used to quicken the process not be a requirement to it. Give it another XP bar like the mastery, and just keep filling it up and have the power rating +100 change when its filled each time. But we are getting distracted about game design vs the starting experience :)

Unique One
08-14-2014, 06:19 AM
Instead of dropping you in the far upper left corner of the map

I sort of wondered why I did not start in defiance city. That is the name of the game after all hehehe.

P.S. Thanks Etaew for all the work you put into your site. I use it a lot. If trion were smart they would employ you to give them a real direction with the game.

jackdaws_1999
08-14-2014, 06:25 AM
I think a set area where people get arkfalls, incursions and arkbreaks that are set to threat level one, until they reach ego 150 would be a good idea. Gets them into the game, playing the incursions, arkfalls, and sieges. Gives them a sence of training and fun at the same time. Also gives them the chance to tryout different guns and the like. As soon as they reach e150 though they should be hoisted up and sent on the stratocarrier for the real start of the game.... Kinda like a training camp for arkhunters, that the creme de la creme are picked from to take part in the main game.

This would at least serve as a better tutorial and give people the chance to try out the different features. Although it would take a new map just for this to be made up, and it should definately not be a part of the main game. Like before you jump the wall, but with arkfalls and seiges and the like.

Unique One
08-14-2014, 06:27 AM
I think a set area where people get arkfalls, incursions and arkbreaks that are set to threat level one, until they reach ego 150 would be a good idea. Gets them into the game, playing the incursions, arkfalls, and sieges. Gives them a sence of training and fun at the same time. Also gives them the chance to tryout different guns and the like. As soon as they reach e150 though they should be hoisted up and sent on the stratocarrier for the real start of the game.... Kinda like a training camp for arkhunters, that the creme de la creme are picked from to take part in the main game.

This would at least serve as a better tutorial and give people the chance to try out the different features. Although it would take a new map just for this to be made up, and it should definately not be a part of the main game. Like before you jump the wall, but with arkfalls and seiges and the like.

Thats actually a pretty cool idea.

Although I would have them start in a defiance instance (similar to how SV was unconnected to mainland) helping out Nolan with a bunch of tasks including arkfalls, etc. In fact, I would make it possible to return there at any time for daily stuff.

SilverWF
08-14-2014, 06:30 AM
I want to kill all newbies: they are always ruin my fun. Also all of them using explosive weapons! ><

jackdaws_1999
08-14-2014, 06:35 AM
Thats actually a pretty cool idea.

Although I would have them start in a defiance instance (similar to how SV was unconnected to mainland) helping out Nolan with a bunch of tasks including arkfalls, etc. In fact, I would make it possible to return there at any time for daily stuff.

Maybe, but I think if the threat level is capped at 1, people who are above a certain ego shouldnt be able to get in, unless they are nerfed to threal level one ego maybe... that would be funny, instead of getting buffed to 4750, you could be nerfed to 250? That would make it fun for them too :)

Perchta
08-14-2014, 07:22 AM
As far as limiting new players to the main story line before going to season 2 missions that would be fine if the main story line missions showed all the time. I started playing with season two. Did the usual starting grind go here do/grab this and the main story line. But often main story line markers would disappear for a day or two as would season one missions leaving me with season 2 missions, side missions, timed events and the like. But no main story line missions or season one. It was the same with with DLC content, the mission, outfits, weapons came and went constantly for 4-5 days. Defiance servers aren't content stable enough to start limiting new players.

dramaQkarri
08-14-2014, 07:25 AM
As players, I don't see much of what we can do except hang around ER camp and broadcast in zone chat our advice. The arkforge nerf coupled with crippling weapon levelling prices is the real game killer for a new player.

I don't have that problem, I have all the guns I need. For me it has gotten boring and frustrating and anger inducing so I just have a really hard time logging in. The last thing I'd want to do it log in and poison the waters for a new player. The changes to this game over time have turned it into a short term type of game without player retention. The Company has a strange long-term vision that few understand (if anyone does).

My advice to new players is solo the story missions as far as you can, be sure to play the side missions so you can collect mods for free and USE THEM cuz they'll help you a lot. Get as much fun as you can and when the fun stops, jump off to another ride.

dramaQkarri
08-14-2014, 07:28 AM
Another crippling problem with the game is the mic chat being broken.

It seems that the new players can talk to each other, but can't hear us vets at all. Ours are broken, theirs are not.

And a lot of the new players don't see the text chat, or don't have it set up correctly (which should be the DEFAULT for crying out loud), or something so if we can't actually COMMUNICATE, then I hope the new players come here at least or visit defiancedata.com. The Company has created nothing in the way of a game guide so it's really up to us here to collect and distribute what we can to help people cope with the dysfunction they've chosen to participate in.

That at least, has not changed since the beginning.

drackiller
08-14-2014, 07:31 AM
Exactly.

Unfortunately getting the developers to notice the obvious is like pulling teeth... They think we are just whining, when in reality we are worried about a game we love. We only complain because we care.

...Exactly...

N3gativeCr33p
08-14-2014, 07:31 AM
The Company has created nothing in the way of a game guide...

Fixing this would be a step in the right direction for "improving the starting experience"... I remember that being quite the frustration back when I first started playing.

drackiller
08-14-2014, 07:34 AM
I think a set area where people get arkfalls, incursions and arkbreaks that are set to threat level one, until they reach ego 150 would be a good idea. Gets them into the game, playing the incursions, arkfalls, and sieges. Gives them a sence of training and fun at the same time. Also gives them the chance to tryout different guns and the like. As soon as they reach e150 though they should be hoisted up and sent on the stratocarrier for the real start of the game.... Kinda like a training camp for arkhunters, that the creme de la creme are picked from to take part in the main game.

This would at least serve as a better tutorial and give people the chance to try out the different features. Although it would take a new map just for this to be made up, and it should definately not be a part of the main game. Like before you jump the wall, but with arkfalls and seiges and the like.

Just using your imagination and extrapolating from my own: when in Mount Tam the TL should be seted at a max of (?) and all high EGO players should unbuff to the lowest level , making things fair.

teppic
08-14-2014, 07:42 AM
i) Get rid of all the missions at Earth Republic Camp, just keep the first storyline quest. It's really confusing to new players who are barely out of a very brief tutorial. It's really stupid to have season 2 stuff there.

ii) Explain what weapon levels are. I had no idea when I started and didn't realise they could be upgraded.

iii) Make sure the main ability (cloak or whatever) is auto-equipped when selected in the tutorial.

iv) Don't have stim/spike charges drop when you don't have any to charge, as you won't at the start. It's confusing, as they just disappear after you take them, and there's no explanation.

v) Improve the in game help massively. One paragraph to describe major parts of the game is very bad.

vi) Provide a game manual (online or PDF) for new players.

Skape
08-14-2014, 07:42 AM
I agree with blocking or even moving the s2 e1 quest. My first hour in the game, I ended up having to go down there. Not knowing that i was not in the natural linear progression of the quest design I struggled through it. I do not remember all the details about it, but i ended up spending approximately 2 hours at that dark matter base dieing a ton, hiding where i could and using a sniper rifle, and reloading tons. It seems to be the biggest request i see for help in clan chat now too.

Other that that, mabye more of a tutorial on what is going on in the main map like the ark falls, incursions and other stuff. Possibly put a arkfall/incursion in the tutorial part so you understand whats happening.

Also, a "how to" upgrade weapons and use synergies. Until about ego 1500 i would vendor weapons when they got a few hundred below me because I did not realize what i could do with them.

CM Kiwibird
08-14-2014, 12:37 PM
Hey there everyone. If you do have ideas, please post them within this thread. Appreciate it! :o

Iceberg
08-14-2014, 12:41 PM
I never liked it when you first jump the wall, you get multiple characters you've never been introduced to start jibber jabbering to you while you haven't even started the first mission.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpbGnoM8dYc

That was back in april when DLC5 was released. Could be more now?

I had run a standard coop the other day and got in with 3 ~350 EGO people. I just loaded up my BMG and kept them healed the entire map. Can't think of anything else to help without modification of the game....

I agree, everything starts at the tutorial area. Get that organized and well thought out with the game mechanics, and new game mechanics and get players used to their contacts they will run into in the mt. tam area.

eirich_liath
08-14-2014, 01:00 PM
The Company has already said that it won't "gate" anything in the game. I disagree.

Things should only be accessible when your character is "ready" for it.

Single player sand boxes do this very well. Training missions that "really" train before access to the sandbox is granted. Think RDR.

hardy83
08-14-2014, 01:33 PM
I don't know if there is anything to really change in the tutorial area, though it would be nice if that area became available to play in, even if there was just a rampage or something in there.
Of course, I also say all dungeons and PvP maps should have overworld playable areas instead of being magical alternate dimensions like most MMOs treat dungeons and battlegrounds.

Though there should definitely be more tutorials about the additional mechanics and features of the game. (This could just be a video tutorial in the menus or something, instead of the ever un-intuitive blocks of text in "info")
How menus works, other items like stims, spikes etc (There were side missions, but since you can'y replay those...)

Etaew
08-14-2014, 01:35 PM
I don't know if there is anything to really change in the tutorial area,

Maybe not just the tutorial area, but northern Mount Tam as well.

hardy83
08-14-2014, 02:17 PM
Maybe not just the tutorial area, but northern Mount Tam as well.

Oh it's been so long. lol I remember the storyline being a bit boring. You have to go hunt for Von Bach and I was just like...Who?
lol Maybe there should be some more missions to explain some of the characters more, specifically Von Bach.

Maybe add a side mission or two explaining who some people are. Maybe go inside the stratocarrier to collect some things for the general and while you're doing it, EGO explains who he is as well as Von Bach and his VBI company.

Sure in-game, we're suppose to know who these people are, but the players don't. It's a story telling disconnect. The kind I hate since it requires someone to look on the Internet or wiki just to know what you're already "suppose" to know.

Deunan
08-14-2014, 03:43 PM
The tutorial is missing some very important explanations of game mechanics since 1.5 went live. EGO needs to teach players about:

1. How nano-effects work. This could be set up in a very similar way to the tutorial teaching the player about EGO powers. EGO uses the same holographic grid to simulate the nano effects for the player's weapon first against enemies with only health for incendiary weapons, then against enemies with shields for electrical weapons, then against enemies with 2 armor plates for bio weapons and again for radiation weapons, and then she breaks the player's shield and some the player's health to show and explain the effects of syphon weapons against an enemy which will be a holograph with just health again.

2. As part of the tutorial EGO explains how ablative armor plating works as part of the explanation about what bio nano and radiation nano weapons do.

3. I'm not sure how this can be done, but players need to know about how dynamic scaling works from day one. Part of the reason why this is hard to implement is that there was never a clearly explained lore basis for why mobs dynamically scale. I suppose you could simply break the fourth wall and have a prompt come up to open the intelligence menu to watch a video from one of the Defiance Team where they simply flat out explain how dynamic scaling works and why it's important for players to keep their gear power rating current.


The Monolith was taken off the bridge because people whined that it was too hard...but he was there to ensure that people leveled up properly and also properly learned the game mechanics.The Monolith was not at the Golden Gate Bridge to ensure players leveled up "properly" (whatever that might mean). There is no level requirement for doing Into The Heart of Darkness and plenty of players blasted through the entire main story line mission at low EGO levels. Plenty of players also simply gained access to San Francisco by asking players at Overpass to group with them so they could teleport to Overpass. In any event that's not why the removed the Monolith at the bridge. They removed it when DLC 2 Arkbreaker was released because they wanted owners to be able to enjoy the content right away and the Arkbreaker mission requires access to San Francisco. Without completing the mission you can't call down Arkbreaks.

StonedatBirth
08-14-2014, 04:59 PM
if you were to add a auction system that converts the items ego level to the buyers current ego then new players can get items they need/want. also returning to the pre silicon valley arkforge and keycode drop rate would be better than what you have done. please fix DROP RATE!

Kobalobasileus
08-14-2014, 05:32 PM
As someone who started with the F2P launch, I am one of those that headed to the dark matter base early on. For me it didn't turn out too badly though, and I opened up useful teleport points, and ran some arkfalls, etc, on my way there.

I was enjoying the game a lot, and was purchasing a DLC and BITS each week.

The real problem is not so much the missions/progression. It is that I can't afford to keep even one favorite gun at my EGO rating. The enemies all scale up but my guns constantly deteriorate. Even before the nerf to AF (and to a lesser degree loot), I could not keep the orange items I had anywhere near at my level. Now I can't even keep one purple. And the faction items I spent weeks getting are now all 500+ ego below my level.

I held on to very few oranges, and vendored them knowing I had no reason to buy mods for them. This was obviously what trion interperated as people throwing away good items. A completely incorrect diagnosis of the real issue - why upgrade/use what I know I can only use for a day or two?

So yeah, mission progression was not my issue. Bad design of the equipment system and a bad enemy scaling system was.

You're doing it wrong. Arkforge is an endgame currency. It appears in such small quantities (even smaller now) and has such out of whack pricing in the Salvage Matrix that it only makes sense to only worry about it after EGO 5K.

I only started playing in earnest at F2P (had to get my money's worth out of that month of free Patron!), and I constantly found new gear to replace my out-leveled stuff, not to mention new types of gear to test out. I never spent a single Arkforge until the encryption nerf was announced.

The recently nerfed loot drop rate is actually worse than the nerfed Arkforge drop rates, since it's harder to find good replacements/upgrades. This affects everyone, not just 5Kers. I still see a lot of loot (maybe because my Patron pass is still active?), but almost all of it is vendor trash now.

steve french69
08-14-2014, 05:44 PM
when I first started playing this game I was totally lost and died countless times on my way to san fran...so I figured id buy a bunch of bits and buy whatever you had for sale.first thing I did was buy all the bonuses I could because who doesn't want 50% rep bonus(what ever that means),and while im at it I might as well buy the 30% one also why not get the group and clan one...after doing that with all of them I was ready to kill things...bummed me out when I realized they were only temporary..guess my point is it took me to around ego 1000 before I had a clue what was going on in this game.dont get me wrong I like this game a lot,joined a fun clan and play everyday,and buying all those bonuses just taught me not to spend bits while coctailing.just needs a little more in game explanation at the beginning..finding defiancedata and this site really helped me get through the first parts of this game

hardy83
08-14-2014, 05:47 PM
Yeah, I think side missions that explain lore and deeper game mechanics would probably be the best thing to do. Even colour the icons a little different to make them stand out.

As well as an information section in the game that doesn't suck. lol

BlackTalons
08-14-2014, 06:20 PM
I wan't the monolith back!

Also the blockades at Tranquility Gate and the Golden Bridge.

On the other hand, I kind of agree with gating the episodic missions, especially the ones that happen at San Fran. However, new players may end up frustrated not being able to play them when joining in mid season, like it's happening now. IMO They should be gated partially, using the introductory mission of each zone as a threshold, but allow the new missions to be played by everybody for the week they are featured. For missions that occur only in Madera you need to complete Enter the Lawkeeper. For those in San Fran, you have to down the monolith. In addition, missions that feature certain characters, like Varus or Eren, and missions that reference certain events in the story, like the gunslinger missions, should all be gated by the introduction to those elements to create a coherent history. This should include gating the episodic missions to the previous episode, properly having episode 3 missions happen only after ep 2 and such.

Seriously, bring back the monolith. It was ****ing epic, a great element in the game, and surely makes it 10x as badass to down it once you know the damned thing is nigh indestructible and can crush you like a bug. Make Fallon McNeil provide a transport (teleport) through one of Sausalito south docks to bypass the monolith at a cost in scrip for emergency cases.

alred
08-14-2014, 07:06 PM
I've been watching some new players stream the game going from mission and side mission at the start, they haven't been impressed and I've been pretty bored.

The game funnels players through missions, and has terrible placement at Earth Republic Camp sending them to the Dark Matter Base in San Francisco.

To prevent a negative experience, and to showcase the games more fun features, what would you want to highlight to new players instead of the current funnel?

Personally I'd like to get people involved as soon as we can into the mayhem and feeling of not being alone during a Major Arkfall, having them go from objective to objective culminating in a large encounter.

I thought starting mission/main story line was great. When I hit the arkfalls, I never felt alone. Granted with the lack of chat you get that feeling. But every so often I'd see a player firing at me, I'd turn around and see a "mob" fall to the ground. So I knew players "had my back" at ark falls and emergencies. About the only time I felt alone was struggling to kill Jackleg [but after watching a youtube video, it was easy], and Nim. But the rest of the time the game was fine as is.
Though to add depth, I think players should have Teamspeak [or other voice chat] and join an active clan. That was the best time in the game. Running through missions with clanmates, chatting it up on Teamspeak.

Jet1337
08-14-2014, 08:00 PM
I'd have new players start off at the warmaster chamber to make them feel how much they're getting ****ed for the rest of the game!

Chump Norris
08-14-2014, 08:04 PM
Unless it already has been done..

I would like the weapons under 1k to come with all of the rolls a weapon should have. This has always been a poor idea to me since they can start spending real money right away.

DEATHBRINGER210
08-14-2014, 08:24 PM
i say they make all the weapons damages and shields caps stats the same levels to the same base stats that way we dont have to worry about the use of forge to upgrade the ego rating

Annouke
08-14-2014, 08:53 PM
Personally I found the tutorial area a bit short. Would be nice to kind of run new players through modding weapons and maybe expanding on the tutorial area to include a rampage, hotshot, time trial to give them the basic knowledge of what its about and how to do them. Likewise with weapon modding. Say make that a part of the mission before meeting Cass ( I mean that low of ego having a weapon mod for free even from a tutorial isn't going to hurt and new players learn about it). And I do agree that ego rating a weapon should use ark salvage instead of ark forge just because even at low levels now with the lower drop rates or adjust the amount req. to rate up the weapons.

As far as low level ego players in SF. Yes, they can get in over their heads to a point but it's also part of the fun doing a hard mission and actually take your time using cover and such. But, the Season 2 Mission should be moved some at least near the medic area (forget the conflict name) so they don't grab it right off the bat.

TheOz
08-14-2014, 09:05 PM
An Arkfall boss should be included in the Tutorial.
Probably scripted as hell with ego telling you what to shoot and what is important.

The best part of Defiance are the big battles this game has, they should be shown in the tutorial.

PTR47
08-14-2014, 09:28 PM
One thing that I've never mentioned, but is a constant source of irritation, is having story moments while you're being attacked. I thought the quests that you needed to turn in at the mailbox were a really good solution to this, but there were only a few. It would be nice to have story and combat a bit separated, because you lose all track of the story.

Bonehead
08-14-2014, 10:23 PM
It would take a re-work of the whole tutorial section to make the game make any sense at all for new players any more so sadly, it's not going to happen anytime soon.
A couple of things that would help would be to integrate the nano powers into the ego tutorial. This would be tough to do seamlessly due to voice acting and editing but it would help a lot. There could be a couple of sentances about the weapons not keeping up with your ego at the same time.

Somehow differentiating the main story line from the episode content would be very helpful to the new players as well, so they don't end up at the dark matter fire base with an ego of 35.

Long story short. Aint gonna happen.

heartbreak_courier
08-14-2014, 10:57 PM
The location of that Season 2, Episode 1 mission at the Earth Republic Camp should *definitely* be a priority. I've seen way too many new players pick that up and immediately head off towards San Francisco, sometimes without a vehicle. I've heard of this in-game, on the forums, and on the Defiance subreddit. And I honestly think it plays a big part in some new players quitting, because they pick it up like any other sidequest and get in over their heads.

Locking out Season 2 until the Season 1 missions have been completed would be an option, as would unlocking it once the main storyline takes them to San Francisco so nothing's being spoiled. Because (if I remember correctly) if you pick up the mission before then, the big mech guarding the Golden Gate Bridge doesn't spawn, regardless of where you are in the main storyline. That's crazy.

Or adding just a big warning in red with a recommended EGO level or a note saying new players should probably hold off.

Aside from that, I don't know how much the initial tutorial has to change. A separate "Help" section inside the menu would go a long way towards making sure players know all the ins and outs of the game. Our maybe, instead of that encounter during the tutorial involving Cass and the rogue E-Rep(?), turn it into an easy arkfall. I liked how the tutorial in RIFT got all the important stuff across with those optional videos, and then culminated in a rift encounter. That would also be neat if people could mentor down to help out new players in the starter areas, just to keep the population there high.

Atticus Batman
08-15-2014, 02:57 AM
{Snip}
A couple of things that would help would be to integrate the nano powers into the ego tutorial. This would be tough to do seamlessly due to voice acting and editing but it would help a lot. There could be a couple of sentances about the weapons not keeping up with your ego at the same time.{snip}

The ego lady having 2 different voices in tutorial could easily be explained in a decent way, if they were going to add to the tutorial.

Add static right before she starts talking in the tutorial for starters.

Then, the first time the current voice actress starts to talk in a new part added to the tutorial, give her a line explaining that she may sound like 2 different people for a little while due to her still integrating with you.

Atticus Batman
08-15-2014, 02:59 AM
{snip}
Aside from that, I don't know how much the initial tutorial has to change. A separate "Help" section inside the menu would go a long way towards making sure players know all the ins and outs of the game{snip}.

Not sure how helpful it really is, but there is a help section in game. It is under the intel section.

Etaew
08-15-2014, 04:12 AM
Not sure how helpful it really is, but there is a help section in game. It is under the intel section.

With that interface? not helpful at all :)

duction
08-15-2014, 04:19 AM
Id start of by talking to the veteran players,

ratpie
08-15-2014, 05:08 AM
I only started playing a few weeks ago, i did go to San Francisco to do my 3rd mission or so the first day.

That is were the yellow marker was on the map and i was trying to do all the missions step by step.

Cant they just move the mission at a later time in the storyline?

squidgod2000
08-15-2014, 05:30 AM
Assuming nobody has mentioned it already, I think there is a need to segregate sub-1000 EGO players in Mt. Tam from 1000+ EGO players, just to keep their threat levels reasonable.

I say this as someone who hasn't rolled a new character since launch.

KeevanSixx
08-15-2014, 06:35 AM
Etaew, the only ideas that come to my mind go contrary to what is currently established in game at this time.

1. reverse the scaling, it's counter intuitive, and causes mass headaches for those of low level. I could be cruising along then hit a emergency, and start kicking tail at my level, but the moment a 4500 ego player arrives, it's like I'm shooting tissue paper and confetti at them while holding a target that reads "bullet sponge" while dancing the cabbage patch. ego goes up, but weapon power stays the same.

It would be far better to scale the ego and weapons down per area, than to bring everyone up to a higher level. That way, Low ego players have a fighting chance in the beginning areas, and can level up naturally. High ego players would be scaled down to the ego levels appropriate to the areas they are visiting....this would give them the challenge they seek, without all the 1shotgod mode that normally happens when a 2k or higher goes and visits Mt. Tam.

2. with all the currency changeups, salvage is almost all but useless. Since trion has scaled back on the amount of arkforge one can receive, my suggestion was to split the upgrades between the arkforge and salvage respectively. Arkforge should be used to upgrade rarity, but the remastery reroll reset (say that 5 times fast) should remain the province of salvage. Yeah, it may cut into the bottom line, but sometimes you have to give, to receive, and may even spur more sales in the store as new players with disposable income would have more cash for the frivolous frills the store offers. lighten the load to loosen the purse...

3. a few more choke points please. It's almost insanely easy to progress from the starter areas, through Mt. Tam, and on into Marin and beyond. The missions progress rather fast, and loose through the beginning, leading up to that long slow crawl to reach the first 1k mark for the checklist. Slow it down, or increase the point rewards to help the new players reach those milestones faster. The current system is a infuriatingly long grind to reach the first milestone, followed by another long grind to level up the weapons to be effective in higher areas.

By adding more natural chokepoints than there currently are, the new players are encouraged to spend more time in the lower areas to ego up, and increase weapon mastery of their chosen favorite weapons. This would reduce the chances of "rapid gack" that low ego players get hit with while playing with higher ego rated players. (would save millions in script for new players so they could purchase whatever new gear that suits their play style.)

4. the map is sizeable, but there is so much wasted space it's insane.

my suggestion for this would be to hire a small team to go back, and fill in the map with more content than what is currently offered. This could be bi-weekly content, adding small new modules to existing areas.

I get it, that the combat was supposed to be somewhat linear, moving from one area to the next...but that almost takes the flavor out of the game. Start filling in all those wasted spaces. How about an e-rep observatory on top of Mt. tam? I've been there, to the highest peak...it's empty with nothing to see. how bout a platform up there with a telescope, and a cutscene looking through the telescope at the arkbelt, and all the ships, broken and unbroken, floating up there. With the occasional re-entry flash showing an arkfall in progress?

Or little out of the way places in the empty map zones with easter eggs, or random encounters not in the usual script? Like a Irath camp with Npc's, and a couple of small shop booths that access items that are class specific.

I'm going to call it, the current lack of civilization in the game feels like I'm wandering a whole region of nothing but mutants/raiders/hellbugs/volge/and grid. I want that hope again. If the show can give us a glimpse of towns and people, then why can the game not? The bug n' chug is not a town, hell, not even a proper gas stop, nor bastion of civilization either. There is an awful profusion of wasted space....please start utilizing it.

That's all that comes to mind for me right now Etaew....the rest is just wistfull fantasy that we will never see.

PTR47
08-31-2014, 09:29 PM
Turns out the Episode 2 Mission that brings you to San Fran not only starts in the middle of ERC, but it is the first available side-quest. It actually appears between mission completion of the second story quest and the next quest in the main story mission line. It actually is in the way of next quest.

It's no wonder people are picking it up. I picked it up at EGO 74 because I saw the Star, did the Medical supply area, then realized what it was.

Also, at this point, you know only four people: EGO, Cass, the army guy, and Von Bach. The radio quest chatter is the scientist girl.

DarkNisha
08-31-2014, 09:40 PM
Either do as jackdaws said, or remove scaling, that way anyone can help and achieve the same results as anyone else. I would also remove the option to have damage numbers toggalable, they should just be ON by default, and never off.

I would also say, after having played the game since launch, that a full tutorial modding a weapon would be nice as well. We had a clan member join a few months back who had played since launch, and still didnt know how to mod weapons (we taught him, and now he mods EVERYTHING... even stuff he scraps off... hes adicted lol). The whole modding interface is messy and downright awkward.

Maybe a salvage matrix tutorial that actually ran you through all the options breifly... but have it as a side mission that you can choose to do once you jump the wall.

Seizan
08-31-2014, 09:50 PM
It would be nice if they made it so that before you reach a certain ego level, the max threat level you would be exposed to was set to something a bit more manageable (like 6 maybe?)

Basically different scaling system for players below a certain ego level.

I was in a group with a relatively new player earlier this evening. She was ego 1600ish and had a really tough time staying alive at events that are threat level 5 to 6. I imagine that's not a lot of fun.

SymbolicGamer
09-01-2014, 03:24 AM
I'd change the intro. Instead of being on board the stratocarrier and landing in Mount Tam, new players would be stranded on an island. Before new players can gain access to the Bay Area, players must first complete an introductory quest line. The only way off the island is through a broken down Dark Matter teleporter that needs new parts. A Warmaster guards the last piece and it can only be retrieved if he is defeated, or bought from the bit store for 5200 bits.