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View Full Version : First impression: Combat is dull and repetitive



PugPug
08-17-2014, 06:14 PM
It seems to take the simplicity of a "shooting gallery" game and draw it out by making guns not very effective. Dozens of rounds from a machine gun at point-blank range are needed to bring down run-of-the-mill enemies. The sole exception seems to be head shots from a sniper rifle. During all that shooting, dodging and cover don't seem very much better than simply standing and trading bullets.

We only get one of four abilities, so it can't with a straight face be called an action RPG. Yes, there are passive perks that make this number or that slightly higher, but overall the specialization seems rudimentary and inconsequential. There is nothing I can see on the path that I'm particularly drawn to.

The inability to share quests or take more than one at a time inhibits co-op play.

LegendaryU2K
08-17-2014, 08:03 PM
When i first played this game , i was a bit confused on why it took me 5 shots from a shotgun to killed simple early enemies, also noticing why head shots from snipers only seem to work. After playing for the past what 3 months now, hooked to this game , i notice the more leveling up you do, and obtain better weapons it does help alot . Snipers though doesnt matter what type you get , headshot only work best. I don't think the game is repetitive though seeing how much you can do in the game. I say stick with the game and play more and level up more and get better guns, etc.

If that doesn't work, you can check out sleeping dogs which is a great open world sand box game :)

DepthProbe
08-17-2014, 08:15 PM
Like Legendary said, in the beginning it seems a little hard to see damage, but after I made a second character I knew exactly what to do to be successful. Modding weapons, figuring out which weapons complement your play style, using spikes and stims all can increase efficiency and induce rewarding game play.

Of course, this game may not be for everyone. 'Tis the nature of video games.

Dandrielas
08-17-2014, 08:40 PM
I find the combat to be fun and fluid, so in my eyes it is an action rpg shooter. It also depends on your threat level. If a higher level is nearby and your equipment isn't up to date, you won't be doing that much damage.

It's the other parts of the game they messed up on. The combat is one of the few good things they did right.

Kobalobasileus
08-17-2014, 09:58 PM
There is nothing wrong with the combat in Defiance. Frankly, it's about perfect, mechanically.

What's broken and boring is the scaling. Spongy enemies that can one-shot players, Threat Level 10 with scaled numbers that are awful except for max EGO characters, not EGO boosting lower characters higher than an inadequate 4750, heck the very fact that EGO boosting is a thing at all - these are the mistakes that make Defiance's combat less fun than it should be.

dramaQkarri
08-17-2014, 10:35 PM
I can see you guys get it. My only advice is, do side missions to get mods and use them. Then keep grinding.

Big Jack Shepard
08-17-2014, 10:39 PM
Do you have your damage numbers turned on? That might help you get a sense of accomplishment. :)

dramaQkarri
08-17-2014, 10:40 PM
Do you have your damage numbers turned on? That might help you get a sense of accomplishment. :)

+1
Good point. It's a big help.

Deunan
08-17-2014, 11:33 PM
It seems to take the simplicity of a "shooting gallery" game and draw it out by making guns not very effective. Dozens of rounds from a machine gun at point-blank range are needed to bring down run-of-the-mill enemies. The sole exception seems to be head shots from a sniper rifle. During all that shooting, dodging and cover don't seem very much better than simply standing and trading bullets.New players typically complain about mobs being massive bullet sponges because the don't understand the damage system and ablative armor plating. When mobs scale up they get additional ablative armor plates on top of inreased health and, if applicable, shields. Each of those plates gives 10% damage resistance to the mob. There are three ways to deal with them.

1. Use a bio-nano effect weapon or bio grenade to break the ablative armor plates;
2. Use a radiation-nano effect weapon or shrill grenade to bypass the plates (this is only effective for low EGO players if the mob only has 3 armor plates or less);
3. Shoot the mob in its crit spot (this will bypass the ablative armor plates completely which is why you're getting better results with the sniper rifle to the head)

Other than weapons with electrical-nano effects, all weapons do less damage against shields and incendiary-nano weapons take a 50% damage deduction against them. You can use flashbang grenades to make all shots do more damage from an gun to take shields down as well. Once the shields are down or if they have no shields, pyro grenades give a damage bonus to all weapons hitting the mob. Proper nano-effect selection for your weapons will make a large difference in your game experience.


We only get one of four abilities, so it can't with a straight face be called an action RPG. Yes, there are passive perks that make this number or that slightly higher, but overall the specialization seems rudimentary and inconsequential.They're not inconsequential. Optimal combination of perks in your loadout can end up making your damage output and survivability much better than it would be without. You just need to explore the possibilities as you gain access to more perks

Amack
08-17-2014, 11:38 PM
I have to strongly agree with the OP. It's just downright repetitive. You load your gun, bullets come out, you reload your gun, and more bullets come out. It's just the same thing over and over and over again. Ridiculous.

Bentu
08-17-2014, 11:40 PM
I have to strongly agree with the OP. It's just downright repetitive. You load your gun, bullets come out, you reload your gun, and more bullets come out. It's just the same thing over and over and over again. Ridiculous.

I really don't know what to say except I expect better from you.

Amack
08-17-2014, 11:50 PM
I really don't know what to say except I expect better from you.

Sorry to let you down. Please forgive me.

Deunan
08-17-2014, 11:52 PM
I have to strongly agree with the OP. It's just downright repetitive. You load your gun, bullets come out, you reload your gun, and more bullets come out. It's just the same thing over and over and over again. Ridiculous.

http://f.ptcdn.info/856/021/000/1406814707-tumblrinli-o.gif

Kierstin
08-17-2014, 11:55 PM
http://f.ptcdn.info/856/021/000/1406814707-tumblrinli-o.gif


The best thing is, there is literally a gif of every time he Gibbs smacked Tony. So every time that guy posts something, you can hit him with another one. xD

Snib
08-17-2014, 11:55 PM
I really don't know what to say except I expect better from you.

Why, I thought it was the best post in the thread so far.

Amack
08-17-2014, 11:57 PM
The best thing is, there is literally a gif of every time he Gibbs smacked Tony. So every time that guy posts something, you can hit him with another one. xD

I've grown quite accustomed to it actually.

Kierstin
08-17-2014, 11:58 PM
I've grown quite accustomed to it actually.

Awwww. Well, Gibbs only does it out of his caring heart. They obviously care about you. haha

Bentu
08-17-2014, 11:59 PM
http://f.ptcdn.info/856/021/000/1406814707-tumblrinli-o.gif

You do know whi we think needs I Gibb slap. :p

Perchta
08-18-2014, 07:51 AM
I've played every released MMO and a few that never made it out of beta and they all have one thing in common. Combat gets repetitive. It's the nature of the beast so to speak and a very common complaint with MMO gamers no matter the title.

RobDaCool
08-18-2014, 09:31 AM
Combat is dull and repetitive in all MMO's, which makes me wonder why every MMO pigeonholes you into a combat class? Aren't they supposed to be RPGs?

PugPug
08-18-2014, 09:36 AM
<----OP

If mods and spikes and whatever else make the game more fun and are important at the outset, it seems to me the tutorial needs to cover those things. :-/

It's so disheartening to see how many new games bone the tutorial and then go back to it months or years down the line. Like... you have to hook them, you know? Nothing turns a player off like confusion. I had every reason to think this is just the way combat is and that it probably only gets worse as encounters get tougher.

Even knowing I need to understand more things, I feel like I should not have to work or do research to enjoy the game. I should be able to just sit and play and discover things naturally.

Snib
08-18-2014, 09:38 AM
Combat is dull and repetitive in all MMO's, which makes me wonder why every MMO pigeonholes you into a combat class? Aren't they supposed to be RPGs?

No, they're not supposed to be RPGs. This is the first line of Defiance's description: "Join the futuristic online open-world shooter where thousands of players scour a transformed Earth competing for alien technology." It's a shooter. Deal with it.

If you want MMO with the optional possibility for combat, go play EVE Online, you won't have to fire a shot ever there if you don't want to. And there are plenty non-combat MMOs out there.

KasperSheitup
08-18-2014, 10:36 AM
<----OP

If mods and spikes and whatever else make the game more fun and are important at the outset, it seems to me the tutorial needs to cover those things. :-/

This game has one of the worst tutorials of all time. Of all time!
That's why Trion needs the veterans to explain everything to new players, a few websites are really good sources but people don't like to read stuff out of the game in my experience so they ask in game. I used to reply and help with pretty much everything but since "the big ****-over™" I just don't care. I don't really want to help because I don't feel there's any value in it anymore. If anything I actually feel bad that new players get hooked on this now when it is in it's worst state ever.

Deunan
08-18-2014, 10:46 AM
<----OP

If mods and spikes and whatever else make the game more fun and are important at the outset, it seems to me the tutorial needs to cover those things. :-/Yes it should! Part of the reason why the tutorial in the beginner area is so inadequate is because they added and overhauled so many features to the game that it is drastically different than it was at launch but the tutorial is still based on the launch version.

I think part of the reason it hasn't happened is because they have limited resources for development for the game and revising the tutorial intro would require things like additional voice acting production for EGO and holographic grid sessions for explaining nano-effects and armor plating. I can't even think how they would go about explaining dynamic scaling without breaking the fourth wall.

RobDaCool
08-18-2014, 11:00 AM
No, they're not supposed to be RPGs. This is the first line of Defiance's description: "Join the futuristic online open-world shooter where thousands of players scour a transformed Earth competing for alien technology." It's a shooter. Deal with it.

If you want MMO with the optional possibility for combat, go play EVE Online, you won't have to fire a shot ever there if you don't want to. And there are plenty non-combat MMOs out there.

Well excuse me. Won't voice my opinion again, even though everyone else can :(

alred
08-18-2014, 11:02 AM
It seems to take the simplicity of a "shooting gallery" game and draw it out by making guns not very effective. Dozens of rounds from a machine gun at point-blank range are needed to bring down run-of-the-mill enemies. The sole exception seems to be head shots from a sniper rifle. During all that shooting, dodging and cover don't seem very much better than simply standing and trading bullets.

We only get one of four abilities, so it can't with a straight face be called an action RPG. Yes, there are passive perks that make this number or that slightly higher, but overall the specialization seems rudimentary and inconsequential. There is nothing I can see on the path that I'm particularly drawn to.

The inability to share quests or take more than one at a time inhibits co-op play.

Isn't that the gist of most mmo's? The dull repetitive grind?

Dandrielas
08-18-2014, 11:03 AM
Well excuse me. Won't voice my opinion again, even though everyone else can :(

You can express it, but it is advised to know what the game was intended to be before you voice it.

Snib
08-18-2014, 11:06 AM
Well excuse me. Won't voice my opinion again, even though everyone else can :(

I'll get to them next! :rolleyes:

(actually I didn't mean to shut you down specifically, I am just not taking a thread complaining about repetitive combat in a shooter all that seriously)

430005
08-18-2014, 11:08 AM
Isn't that the gist of most mmo's? The dull repetitive grind?

That depends on preference and culture. Most Eastern MMO's are a dull repetitive grind, yes.
They tend to compensate that with flashy attacks, over the top combos and other features.

Ironhide
08-18-2014, 11:08 AM
<----OP

If mods and spikes and whatever else make the game more fun and are important at the outset, it seems to me the tutorial needs to cover those things. :-/

It's so disheartening to see how many new games bone the tutorial and then go back to it months or years down the line. Like... you have to hook them, you know? Nothing turns a player off like confusion. I had every reason to think this is just the way combat is and that it probably only gets worse as encounters get tougher.

Even knowing I need to understand more things, I feel like I should not have to work or do research to enjoy the game. I should be able to just sit and play and discover things naturally.

Thing is the spike and stims are something that was added almost a year after the original game came out. The Original game was way different, no stims, spikes, no arkforge, a gun you got at level 20 did the same damage as one you could get at level 5000. There was no need to level guns with arkforge to your ego level. Also there were no scaling mobs, so people at level 20 were just as powerful as someone level 5000, sans 4 perk slots. The last 4 perk slots were opened at every 1000 ego gains. The arkforge, the leveling of guns to your ego was all added to make money from the new free to play crowd who would obviously not know any better. Go look up Defiance Game play from last year and see how the game was back then. Also there was no need to have specific nano weapons in your loadout. Now pretty much bio and fire are at a norm. Granted when the game was new nanos, cause specific things, like bio cause enemies to be slowed down, or fire caused enemies to panic and roll around and not fire at you for a few seconds, but none were ever needed to specifically take out armor plates, shields or health. Because those seperate mechanics wern't around then.

RobDaCool
08-18-2014, 11:10 AM
You can express it, but it is advised to know what the game was intended to be before you voice it.

I apologize, I thought it was an MMORPG. I'll move to a new game, happy?

Dandrielas
08-18-2014, 11:13 AM
I apologize, I thought it was an MMORPG. I'll move to a new game, happy?

It's a MMOTPS. Up to you. /shrug If you really want a MMORPG, there are a ton out here, but if you just want to shoot things and use cool powers like you're in a action movie. Then this game is for you.

430005
08-18-2014, 11:13 AM
I apologize, I thought it was an MMORPG. I'll move to a new game, happy?

If you going to act like a kid, don't be suprised to be treated like a kid. That's not a bad thing!
It just means you have to come with some good arguments and not half assed comments.


if you just want to shoot things and use cool powers like you're in a action movie

Don't push it, 2rd rate B-movie maybe, or medium budget Syfy show perhaps. Oh wait..

RobDaCool
08-18-2014, 11:16 AM
If you going to act like a kid, don't be suprised to be treated like a kid. That's not a bad thing!
It just means you have to come with some good arguments and not half assed comments.

Who's acting like a kid? I agreed with the OP. And I thought this game was a MMORPG.

Dandrielas
08-18-2014, 11:18 AM
Don't push it, 2rd rate B-movie maybe, or medium budget Syfy show perhaps. Oh wait..

True. It is more entertaining combat wise though then most MMOs. Definitely more fluid.

430005
08-18-2014, 11:24 AM
Who's acting like a kid? I agreed with the OP.

I am not commenting on your opinion but on the silly remark you couldnt voice an opinion when that other dude pointed out this game is a 3rd person shooter and not a traditional (MMO)RPG.

Personally im undecided. I experienced Defiance as more action because it was shooterbased, but it missed refinement in skills and weapons when compared to games like PS2 or Borderlands 2.

Using multiple rounds to down a hostile I see as normal. It has RPG storyquest elements which makes this not suprising. This isnt a shooter like COD or BF. Overall, Defiance didnt score bad.

Perchta
08-18-2014, 11:32 AM
If MMO combat bores you then you could always switch to a game where you don't need to engage in combat. Several MMOs have in the past and currently do not require combat to advance in the game. For instance EVE. Go be a miner, join a corp and you'll even get a protection detail to protect you while you mine. But just so you know being a miner in EVE gets boring a hell of a lot faster than combat in any MMO.

skepticck
08-18-2014, 11:53 AM
Can only speak for myself but imo combat is pretty much the only good think in this game, the only thing they actually made right.

PugPug
08-18-2014, 05:54 PM
If MMO combat bores you then you could always switch to a game where you don't need to engage in combat. Several MMOs have in the past and currently do not require combat to advance in the game. For instance EVE. Go be a miner, join a corp and you'll even get a protection detail to protect you while you mine. But just so you know being a miner in EVE gets boring a hell of a lot faster than combat in any MMO.

I'm not replying to only your post, but others who have said pretty much the same thing.

"MMOs are grindy and repetitive" is a false equivalency and a cop-out. In any MMORPG -- like, for instance, RIFT -- a player might have 20-30 abilities and absolutely needs them all to deal with a multitude of specific situations.

Even mainstream shooters break things up frequently with different kinds of encounters, environments, enemies and weapons. Defiance, at least so far, doesn't.

And even knowing now that there are things I could learn to make it more interesting, I don't feel like I should have to work or research to enjoy the game. I should be able to discover things naturally.

Dandrielas
08-18-2014, 06:00 PM
I'm not replying to only your post, but others who have said pretty much the same thing.

"MMOs are grindy and repetitive" is a false equivalency and a cop-out. In any MMORPG -- like, for instance, RIFT -- a player might have 20-30 abilities and absolutely needs them all to deal with a multitude of specific situations.

Even mainstream shooters break things up frequently with different kinds of encounters, environments, enemies and weapons. Defiance, at least so far, doesn't.

And even knowing now that there are things I could learn to make it more interesting, I don't feel like I should have to work or research to enjoy the game. I should be able to discover things naturally.

I will give you the point they should make this information more clear. As for the encounters, they do good enough job with the mobs. There are mutants, 99ers, raiders, dark matter, zombies, and the new ego crazy ones.