PDA

View Full Version : A Newb asking Veterans



Beathrus
08-19-2014, 08:31 PM
So... Plain and simple, just want to know, what exactly changed to suddenly run everyone off the PS3, PC, and Xbox versions exactly? I keep hearing about an update caused it, but can you explain?

Dandrielas
08-19-2014, 08:35 PM
1.They made key codes cost x10 more then they used too. It used to cost 10k resources and 5k scrip for 10 key codes.
2.They nerfed the drop rate for key codes and AF making it impossible to keep your weapons up to date.
3.They are essentially forcing you to buy from the store with the nerf and key code price increase.

Beathrus
08-19-2014, 08:40 PM
But isn't that normal when a P2P game goes F2P? I mean, isn't F2P the last stop for a P2P game that isn't making money anymore?

Dandrielas
08-19-2014, 08:45 PM
But isn't that normal when a P2P game goes F2P? I mean, isn't F2P the last stop for a P2P game that isn't making money anymore?

It wasn't P2B. It was B2P, and you are correct. They just went overboard with the nerfs. A f2p game is supposed to make you purchase the items because you want too. It's not supposed to basically force you. In order to upgrade one rare to legendary, it would take about 2 months of good farming.

dramaQkarri
08-19-2014, 08:47 PM
Agreed, it was all too much at once PLUS other games coming out made us realize we need to move on.

BUT if you enjoy the game and are having fun, keep playing. No reason to stop until the fun stops.

Alastar
08-19-2014, 08:47 PM
The trick with f2p is to entice users into the store. Not nerf everything into oblivion in game leaving the store looking like a prize. They need to make us WANT to spend money. When you feel forced to spend money many (I daresay most) will tighten their coin purses so to speak. That's what's happening. Many players are left feeling that Trion is pushing them into the store rather than inviting them in. After they started feeling they way they started dropping one by one.

Beathrus
08-19-2014, 08:48 PM
Okay, So you are basically saying they jumped the price up to much? So instead of doing it what, 5x would be more reasonable? And they nerfed the key code drop rate? By how much?

Dandrielas
08-19-2014, 08:49 PM
Okay, So you are basically saying they jumped the price up to much? So instead of doing it what, 5x would be more reasonable? And they nerfed the key code drop rate? By how much?

By over half. Where as you used to get 15 for doing a good job. You now get 2.

Beathrus
08-19-2014, 08:50 PM
Okay, is that it though, is that all they did? o.o There is nothing else that ran off the Veterans?

dramaQkarri
08-19-2014, 08:50 PM
Okay, So you are basically saying they jumped the price up to much? So instead of doing it what, 5x would be more reasonable? And they nerfed the key code drop rate? By how much?

Raising prices a little bit at a time would be less shocking.

Keycode drop rate went from around 30-50 at a dark matter arkfall, down to about 7-8 tops. Pretty disheartening.

Arkforge dropped down to the ground as well but I don't have good numbers on that.

tim jim
08-19-2014, 08:51 PM
My answer the company has a history of doing the exact opposite of whatever the populace is complaining about,

warmaster was not being beaten (killed) and people were waiting long = add timers to all parts of fight

game is too easy (pre DLC5) = add threat levels new currencies and weapon progression and ability to upgrade weapons

lockboxes suck price for rewards is not worth it by any means = encryption increase of price of keycodes x 10 decreased rewards given

i knew it would be like this when people were complaining about the saw, and instead of buffing the rest of the guns they nerfed the saw.....shows alot if you watch there movements,

dramaQkarri
08-19-2014, 08:51 PM
I guess after playing the game for over a year, we've seen this kind of action by The Company time after time and after this last MASSIVE nerf-o-rama, we've had enough.

Like I said, play it while you're having fun and if it's not fun, you'll know when to stop.

Dandrielas
08-19-2014, 08:53 PM
Raising prices a little bit at a time would be less shocking.

Keycode drop rate went from around 30-50 at a dark matter arkfall, down to about 7-8 tops. Pretty disheartening.

Arkforge dropped down to the ground as well but I don't have good numbers on that.

I can tell you. I farmed at Sutro tower until I got over 400k on the score. When I was done, I got about 48 key codes and 40 AF. If I did it now, 16 key codes and 14 AF.

AshbyHeadHunter
08-19-2014, 09:10 PM
The trick with f2p is to entice users into the store. Not nerf everything into oblivion in game leaving the store looking like a prize. They need to make us WANT to spend money. When you feel forced to spend money many (I daresay most) will tighten their coin purses so to speak. That's what's happening. Many players are left feeling that Trion is pushing them into the store rather than inviting them in. After they started feeling they way they started dropping one by one.

Not to mention the fact that just simply the way trion has treated it players is another reason for tightening the purse so to say.... why would we give money to a company that doesnt look after its players....

Oh and another point... maybe if they actually put effort into support i might be more inclined to offer up some $$$$ into the game but considering my tickets have never been resolved (they are being worked on now after sitting there for weeks and having to bring it to the attention of dev via PM) i aint forking out nutta on the store.

User put money into something they see value in.... Defiance... well there is no value in it im at an ego i can do threat 10 fine im happy with my guns (im working on a few in my own time but hey all good there) so yeah now support is being "nerfed" as well i guess (going to need an active patron pass for live chat) there is no point in putting money in... The point of Us wanting to by from store vs being forced contributes to this.... i aint gonna pay for something i have to i already bought the game...

Atticus Batman
08-19-2014, 09:15 PM
1.They made key codes cost x10 more then they used too. It used to cost 10k resources and 5k scrip for 10 key codes.
2.They nerfed the drop rate for key codes and AF making it impossible to keep your weapons up to date.
3.They are essentially forcing you to buy from the store with the nerf and key code price increase.

Yes this last patch raised the keycode cost 10x, but remember a patch a few months ago raised it 2x. so in essence it got raised atleast 12x.

Dandrielas
08-19-2014, 09:16 PM
Yes this last patch raised the keycode cost 10x, but remember a patch a few months ago raised it 2x. so in essence it got raised atleast 12x.

True. I forgot about that one. Also

4.Because grenades

Alastar
08-19-2014, 09:18 PM
AHAHAHAHA!!!! Totally forgot to mention live support now being reserved solely for people with patrons passes or a purchase in the last 30 days XD yep yep. Even live to support to fix bugs will soon have a price tag. DEFIANCE! *air fist*

Copperpot
08-19-2014, 09:20 PM
Yes this last patch raised the keycode cost 10x, but remember a patch a few months ago raised it 2x. so in essence it got raised atleast 12x.

http://media0.giphy.com/media/eQMDSmcStu67m/200.gif

May not be totally relevant, but I'm anxious to start my new Twin Peaks Gif trend.

Dandrielas
08-19-2014, 09:20 PM
AHAHAHAHA!!!! Totally forgot to mention live support now being reserved solely for people with patrons passes or a purchase in the last 30 days XD yep yep. Even live to support to fix bugs will soon have a price tag. DEFIANCE! *air fist*

Also forgot about that one. Luckily, I gave up on reporting bugs long time ago.

Beathrus
08-19-2014, 09:24 PM
Made a new thread, feel free to chime in and get other people to as well. Might as well try to get Devs to see it.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?172249-My-Second-Thread-Feel-free-to-chime-in!&p=1600675#post1600675

Maixx
08-19-2014, 09:25 PM
- poor game stability, SINCE LAUNCH
- passing off some of the crap they released as paid DLC
- the way they do nerfs "balancing", they have no concept of minor adjustments, they do everything at a stupid extreme level.
- the cash grab priorities. Like the nerfs & updates to cash shop items over bugs and stability
- making customer service (Live chat) only available to people who made a cash shop purchase...
** i paid $160 for this broken game on launch purchased & plenty of crap from the bit shop, and i won't be able use live chat w/o making a recent cash shop purchase, F' that.

Looking forward to 9/9 & the new PS4 with it.

Atticus Batman
08-19-2014, 09:30 PM
http://media0.giphy.com/media/eQMDSmcStu67m/200.gif

May not be totally relevant, but I'm anxious to start my new Twin Peaks Gif trend.

I see your Twin Peaks and raise with 3 Twilight Zones!!!

http://media.giphy.com/media/7Z6WWKCO2lpwA/giphy.gif
http://static.tumblr.com/c894808c1761621cc143f251da2555ef/g49zfw3/rJZmslhlr/tumblr_static_opening.gif
http://media.giphy.com/media/i0RqyCKziNnos/giphy.gif

Dandrielas
08-19-2014, 09:35 PM
Let the battle commence.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAwWPadFsOA

Atticus Batman
08-19-2014, 09:40 PM
Let the battle commence.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAwWPadFsOA

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm7ddtCfHX1qa69wso1_r1_500.gif
http://cdn.gifbay.com/2013/07/3d_get_over_here-64305.gif

Nefarious
08-19-2014, 09:43 PM
1.They made key codes cost x10 more then they used too. It used to cost 10k resources and 5k scrip for 10 key codes.
2.They nerfed the drop rate for key codes and AF making it impossible to keep your weapons up to date.
3.They are essentially forcing you to buy from the store with the nerf and key code price increase.

But in turn...


LOCKBOX CHANGES
* Tier 2 Lockboxes no longer drop legendary items.
* The maximum arkforge payouts have been adjusted:
- Tier 2 Lockboxes now drop a maximum of 20 arkforge.
- Tier 3 Lockboxes can now drop 20 or 50 arkforge.
- Tier 4 Lockboxes can now drop 20, 50, or 100 arkforge.
* Tier 4 Lockboxes now have a chance to drop a jackpot weapon in addition to its normal contents! The jackpot weapon is only available for a limited time before it will be rotated out for a new item.
* The current jackpot weapon is an EEC HP-7 Wildcat, as featured below:
http://webcdn.triongames.com/defiance/community/jackpot-wildcat.png

Copperpot
08-19-2014, 09:44 PM
http://media1.giphy.com/media/uITbudIZ08QaA/200.gif

trump that

Copperpot
08-19-2014, 09:45 PM
But in turn...

Cant say i don't want one, but I'm not ****tin my breeches either.

Dandrielas
08-19-2014, 09:47 PM
But in turn...

Seems more like them trying to get on out good side because they know they screwed the pooch.

Nefarious
08-19-2014, 09:50 PM
And what is this myth of extreme nerfs towards things? I would seriously like to see this list..

Dandrielas
08-19-2014, 09:51 PM
And what is this myth of extreme nerfs towards things? I would seriously like to see this list..

It's a magical list. You need special glasses to wear to see it.

Nefarious
08-19-2014, 09:52 PM
Seems more like them trying to get on out good side because they know they screwed the pooch.

If that's the case then shucks because I thought Trion doesint listen to their player community?:rolleyes:

Dandrielas
08-19-2014, 09:54 PM
If that's the case then shucks because I thought Trion doesint listen to their player community?:rolleyes:

Listening and understanding are two separate things. :)

I also know you are being facetious. I am just tired right now, so I can't come up with anything witty.

Nefarious
08-19-2014, 09:59 PM
Listening and understanding are two separate things. :)

Still waiting on that list. Be real cool if there was any sense made as to why things on said list didn't need to be nerf in the first place considering how said things worked previously before.

That short list of nerfs to a hand full of things..

Atticus Batman
08-19-2014, 10:00 PM
http://media1.giphy.com/media/uITbudIZ08QaA/200.gif

trump that

http://media.giphy.com/media/zfNwkTVvXVcxa/giphy.gif
http://media.giphy.com/media/xxWpP7q1spHqM/giphy.gif

And if you didn't like those, then....

http://media.giphy.com/media/gaoGncy5PggOk/giphy.gif

Dandrielas
08-19-2014, 10:03 PM
Still waiting on that list. Be real cool if there was any sense made as to why things on said list didn't need to be nerf in the first place considering how said things worked previously before.

That short list of nerfs to a hand full of things..

I don't know if you are being serious or not?

Copperpot
08-19-2014, 10:07 PM
http://media.giphy.com/media/zfNwkTVvXVcxa/giphy.gif
http://media.giphy.com/media/xxWpP7q1spHqM/giphy.gif

And if you didn't like those, then....

http://media.giphy.com/media/gaoGncy5PggOk/giphy.gif

I like them, but I'm not in a twilight zone mood. So here:

http://media2.giphy.com/media/SNIVhkGfvE5HO/200.gif

http://media0.giphy.com/media/102j0P05ns70NW/200.gif

http://media2.giphy.com/media/So5ykhW5LAbvy/200.gif

http://media3.giphy.com/media/piAHl1eATLrpe/200.gif

http://media3.giphy.com/media/uBVpuI5b5RLrO/200.gif

http://media1.giphy.com/media/cnUJ2s8f2nd9m/200.gif

THE END

MrClip26
08-19-2014, 10:15 PM
not even going to. the logic showed in this thread and threads alike. smh.

Nefarious
08-19-2014, 11:10 PM
I don't know if you are being serious or not?

Nah, I wanna see the list of nerfs. Here Ill do it for you. Here are the nerfs that sticked.

•Cars no longer being able to run over and kill everything (especially at Ark Falls). *Trion made enemies more resilient to getting hit since players could just run everything over. Much needed 'nerf'*

•Strain Reducer being changed to x1.10 fire rate to stop burst fire Infectors, mainly the Immunizer from being fully automatic. *Having a gun that can shoot that far at that rate and auto hit really had no place in the game working like that. A good fix.*

•Surge Bolter being able to kill nearly anything in 1 hit along with having 100% hip fire accuracy and no recoil. *That needed to be fixed, another needed nerf* - btw many players still consider the SB to powerful, so it must of not got nerfed that bad..

•Grenades. Before the change a player could get into a loop of just throwing one grenade one after another. *In turn they were limited and made into consumables that were also made stronger and were giving no cool down times other then a couple of seconds between throws. It was more then a even trade in making granades consumable. In the end Grenades became stronger then what they were before.*

•Cloak getting nerfed because it rendered users air clear in PvP. And the change only affects PvP. The cloak change has no barring on PvE. *it working like invisibility ruined PvP for what its worth and needed to get fixed.*

• Lock on range for the Blood Hound and Gang Buster to be reduced. *This was so needed. And because of so now the weapons are balanced when considering what they can do. I don't even want to write out why. But to just sum it up. Gang Buster's power, Bloodhounds lock on and rapid fire efficiency, 40m is half the range of which Snipers can engage at which is 80m, lock on weapons half that range at the rate or power they dish out is more then good enough.*

•Ego Recharge on reload and Speed Boost on reload and other reload bonuses getting cool down times. *Ego Recharge on reload was used to undermine the very perks that are made to shave Ego recharge times down which resulted in some of the most over powered and unbalanced things that can be done in the game. A needed nerf if there was any.*

-Reward system and more meaningful loot. This is not even a nerf as it is a work in progess. Players have been asking since forever for weapon rolls and synergies on guns to make more sense depending on the weapon itself. Players been asking to make T4 lock boxes worth buying. *So Trion is going to make weapons over all more meaningful because of better rolls which will result in less trash loot but at the same time had to balance loots drops so loot wont become this diluted thing and lose its meaning. They upped the rewards for lock boxes but at the same time have to balance that out by retro actively raising the cost of keys if such powerful weapons are to be granted through them.*

So a couple more then a hand full. 7&1/2 changes/nerfs that players ever freaked out about. That's not many. Each one needed and each one with reason and sense behind the change. Am I missing any? The old Shotgun change with x to mag is not around anymore, its all + mag now. So what else is there that is so bad that got nerfed and wasn't needed? Im not being biased, Im clawing my brain trying to think of them all.

What about the time players made millions of scrip through the Extra Life vendor exploit and had their scrip from that taking back? Is that a nerf?? Was that not needed?

What about the change to shields? That was more of a buff.

hmm, idk.:rolleyes:

Alastar
08-19-2014, 11:19 PM
But in turn...

I'll need to see percentages of drops before I even begin to see that as a good thing. As is likely the drop rates are so completely through the floor that t4s are still garbage that are now a painstakingly slow grind to get. While it is nice to see that there is a drop with guaranteed good rolls if it never drops then its still meh. On the same note the general t4 box. (You know the one) garbage loot, sells for less than you paid for it now takes what 3-4x as long to get? And if you want to buy one its now 10x more expensive to yet again pull pretty much guaranteed garbage lol.

Amack
08-19-2014, 11:23 PM
I'll need to see percentages of drops before I even begin to see that as a good thing. As is likely the drop rates are so completely through the floor that t4s are still garbage that are now a painstakingly slow grind to get. While it is nice to see that there is a drop with guaranteed good rolls if it never drops then its still meh. On the same note the general t4 box. (You know the one) garbage loot, sells for less than you paid for it now takes what 3-4x as long to get? And if you want to buy one its now 10x more expensive to yet again pull pretty much guaranteed garbage lol.

Please define "Percentages of drops".

Alastar
08-19-2014, 11:29 PM
I really don't think I need to define the words percentages and drops lol

Amack
08-19-2014, 11:32 PM
I really don't think I need to define the words percentages and drops lol

I was seriously asking what percentage you would like to see. What would make it "worth it" in your mind when it comes to them adding the jackpot weapon.

Nefarious
08-19-2014, 11:34 PM
I'll need to see percentages of drops before I even begin to see that as a good thing. As is likely the drop rates are so completely through the floor that t4s are still garbage that are now a painstakingly slow grind to get. While it is nice to see that there is a drop with guaranteed good rolls if it never drops then its still meh. On the same note the general t4 box. (You know the one) garbage loot, sells for less than you paid for it now takes what 3-4x as long to get? And if you want to buy one its now 10x more expensive to yet again pull pretty much guaranteed garbage lol.

Garbage loot is kinda subjective. Now is 4 blue tier weapons garbage for a High Ego level player? Yes. But low Ego? No not really. Those 4 weapons will last them awhile and work out pretty good. Not everything can be droping Epics and Legendries. At the same time buying a lock box and reselling the contents to earn your money back would make no sense, if you gamble on RNG there should be a gamble involved. At least you can sell the contents and get some scrip back.

And getting keys just through the means of Ark Falls and other events will for sure take a long time. But you can also meet this need half way and buy keys as well. Players can use scrip and salvage to lessen the burden. Between the chase for keys you are also gaining these resources aswell to use but players don't want to spend them. Why have them then? If player wants to save them then that's up to them, but its not like the option is not there and getting keys is just consisted of the grid through Ark Fall events.

Alastar
08-19-2014, 11:40 PM
Oooooooooh I mistook your question. My apologies. IF the general lockbox remains complete and utter garbage let's say 1 lockbox a day. That's a lot of grinding I think we can agree. At 1 lockbox a day I would like to see a 50% 100AF drop yea 50% at a box a day. And a jackpot at least once within 14 boxes. 2 weeks a jackpot weapon. That is for those grinding enough to open a box a day. Lots and lots of people will be doing 2 days or more. The jackpot weapons will be out leveled by the lower egos that get them and vets if they're still here can say they're grinding from something of worth. I don't think I'm being unfair with the AF either.

Alastar
08-19-2014, 11:46 PM
Not gonna lie Nef. I stopped reading after epics and legendaries. You and I both know rarity means very little in this game. So that argument is nonsensical lol. I still picked up greens and blues that outperform most legendaries I've seen. But eh. It is a bit refreshing to see people sticking up for Trion. Haven't seen that in awhile XD

Amack
08-19-2014, 11:58 PM
Oooooooooh I mistook your question. My apologies. IF the general lockbox remains complete and utter garbage let's say 1 lockbox a day. That's a lot of grinding I think we can agree. At 1 lockbox a day I would like to see a 50% 100AF drop yea 50% at a box a day. And a jackpot at least once within 14 boxes. 2 weeks a jackpot weapon. That is for those grinding enough to open a box a day. Lots and lots of people will be doing 2 days or more. The jackpot weapons will be out leveled by the lower egos that get them and vets if they're still here can say they're grinding from something of worth. I don't think I'm being unfair with the AF either.

I think that is completely reasonable.

Unfortunately, having a 50% chance at 100 AF still does not guarantee you will get that 100 AF drop once every two days. You could get 100 AF both days, or you might not get any at all.

The same applies to the jackpot item drop. You could literally get a jackpot item from all 14 boxes, lol. Of course that won't happen, but since it is random that makes it completely possible, although highly unlikely. You may also not get the jackpot item even once in 14 boxes.

I am sure you understand why they can not guarantee to everyone that we will get a jackpot item for every 14 tier4 boxes we purchase. It is for the same reason that they cannot guarantee to everyone that we will get 100 AF at least once every two days. By definition that would not be a random system. You would have some players grinding up to four or more tier4 boxes per day so they would be getting more jackpot weapons than the average player who gets one tier4 each day. The same thing goes for arkforge. A player who was able to grind four tier4 boxes would be getting 100 AF twice a day. That is why they have to add in randomness to the drop formulas.

Alastar
08-20-2014, 12:04 AM
Obviously they cannot guarantee anything with percentages. Even with a 99% drop you run the possibility of never seeing anything. BUT a 50% drop and whatever the other one is is far more acceptable than a 1% drop. Less than 10% but I'm not crunching the numbers to find out exactly lol. Those were also in the event the regular t4 box remains as garbage as ever. Of the general box had its worth increased to match the nerfing of rewards and price hike of keys it would be farm more acceptable to not see the 100 AF or jackpot.

Amack
08-20-2014, 12:26 AM
Obviously they cannot guarantee anything with percentages. Even with a 99% drop you run the possibility of never seeing anything. BUT a 50% drop and whatever the other one is is far more acceptable than a 1% drop. Less than 10% but I'm not crunching the numbers to find out exactly lol. Those were also in the event the regular t4 box remains as garbage as ever. Of the general box had its worth increased to match the nerfing of rewards and price hike of keys it would be farm more acceptable to not see the 100 AF or jackpot.

The only time I can even remember them disclosing any percentages was for the warmaster legendaries and that was quite awhile ago. Trick said it was set to 6% at the time iirc. I thought to myself, I would never see a legendary from the warmaster at that rate, but I got lucky and have received 3 or 4 since then. Each time I was shocked and it was a nice surprise. That is what they are trying to accomplish here.

Alastar
08-20-2014, 12:36 AM
They need to do more than try and a jackpot is the least of the issues. These are our rewards they're messing with. They were never great to begin with but at least the time investment for trash wasn't intense. There's a lot of other things they can do that will satisfy both their needs and ours without it being a complete slap in the face. And I'm well certain I'll never see the percentages lol. Don't need to tell me that. We need to keep in mind though these are our rewards for grinding, for keeping the bay area safe. Scrip eh...it has to many uses to be of a concern and I don't remember that being needed in the rewards. Keycodes though have a very limited use. And earning them has been needed to dust. They need to accompany that nerf with a major increase in value. If you nerf the rewards and don't increase the value to match it well.....I don't need to tell anyone here what happens ;)

Amack
08-20-2014, 12:45 AM
They need to do more than try and a jackpot is the least of the issues. These are our rewards they're messing with. They were never great to begin with but at least the time investment for trash wasn't intense. There's a lot of other things they can do that will satisfy both their needs and ours without it being a complete slap in the face. And I'm well certain I'll never see the percentages lol. Don't need to tell me that. We need to keep in mind though these are our rewards for grinding, for keeping the bay area safe. Scrip eh...it has to many uses to be of a concern and I don't remember that being needed in the rewards. Keycodes though have a very limited use. And earning them has been needed to dust. They need to accompany that nerf with a major increase in value. If you nerf the rewards and don't increase the value to match it well.....I don't need to tell anyone here what happens ;)

We'll just have to see what happens after the patch. I am sure no matter what happens though, there will be some unhappy people, that goes without saying. Believe it or not, there are plenty of players like myself who play for the enjoyment of it, and not for the rewards. Like I said, I had absolutely no hope of getting any legendaries from WM after they set it at 6%, but that didn't stop me from going into the fight and trying to actually win. Most players here on the forums make a big deal about WM being near impossible to beat currently, but maybe, just maybe they increased that 6% and didn't bother to tell us.

Alastar
08-20-2014, 12:55 AM
Ahahaha. I certainly doubt they increased the drop rate. This is Trion we're talking about lol. That aside yes waiting is all that can be done. And there will* ALWAYS be unhappy people. The question is whether or not they are justifiably unhappy outside of personal preference. As far as WM legendaries go they could increase the drops to 100%. I've no love for the weapons to be gained. As for playing for enjoyment consider the possibility that being rewarded for ones effort IS enjoyment. Not everyone has the same definition of fun mind you. That's an aside anyways. Whether or not it is the center of fun is not the point. Rewards by their nature are supposed to be rewards not a drain on your wallet. My entire opinion on the matter is irrelevant anyway. In the next month I will likely open 1 t4 if that lol. So yeah. Pretty much irrelevant.

WanWhiteWolf
08-20-2014, 01:18 AM
So... Plain and simple, just want to know, what exactly changed to suddenly run everyone off the PS3, PC, and Xbox versions exactly? I keep hearing about an update caused it, but can you explain?

I am just gonna copy/paste a reply from another post.

A few comparisons:

.1.
Prior the patch: I was looking for some synergy mods so I was rotating every 1 hour or so through all towns to see if I get lucky on one of the vendors. I would see in almost every town between 5-10 people. In the Earth Republic there were always more than 10.

After the patch: I am still looking for one particular mod. When rotating between towns I see about 2-3 people tops and Earth Republic has 5 people tops.

.2.
Prior the patch: When a major arkfall appeared on the map you would jump right at it. On your way you could see all cars / rollers / runners converging into that direction. It was like a gold rush. I remember canceling missions when a major arkfall appeared. It was worth it.

After the patch: I go to an arkfall if it is on my way of whatever am I doing at the moment. I don't see that "converging" attitude no more. And for the rewards it give, it is plain simpler to just go for side missions. You get more loot / exp this way. The only disadvantage is that you won't meet that many players and it kinda' kills the fun playing a single player game in an MMO.

.3.
Prior the patch: I remember people tp'ing to towns close the Siege spawning locations (e.g. Fork). When a siege would pop on the map people would jump into their cars and rush there. I remember doing some trades in the Fork when suddenly all people around that area summoned their cars and boosts their engines." The siege spawned ...it's time to go". You didn't even have to check the map. It was clear what was happening.
After the patch: I went today evening (that's EU evening time), at a siege. I was solo. Literally solo. At level 6 a guy showed up. " Glad that I am not the only one who still cares about sieges" I told him on the area chat. His reply? "I actually have a quest that is blocked by this siege.... need to finish it before I can start the quest".

.4.
Prior the patch: You could see a lot of veterans. You didn't have to check their levels; it was enough to see how they position themselves at a siege and by the constant use of grenades / spikes and hold up their point.
After the patch: Yesteday, for the first time in the history of this game, I saw a siege were we lost literally all points (A,B,C). If you just look at a battle you see that half of them don't have a clue. For example ... at a 12 men siege I was the only one who was using spikes. I had to walk half of the siege map to revive a player that was crawling between 5 other standing shooters. They were either blind / either didn't care.

Bottom line: Yes, people are still playing the game. But until decent game mechanics are brought back (if ever) we will never have the teamplay as we once did. Yes, people will show up since it's a free game. But as soon as they realize the game is "pay to win" or better " lose without paying", they will jump on another boat.

Alastar
08-20-2014, 01:22 AM
LOL. This siege is in my way XD That's awesome.

Valgmorgan
08-20-2014, 02:34 AM
And rightfully sad at the same time, I love the dynamic mad dash to kill stuff at these events, but prior to the Nerf-reward patch...We had a ton of people to get high scores with. I just hope this patch tomorrow bring people back. That 1million weapon crate needs an epic price reduction, I don't see anything in the notes since, nor a fix to that laughable box.

Dandrielas
08-20-2014, 09:03 AM
-Reward system and more meaningful loot. This is not even a nerf as it is a work in progess. Players have been asking since forever for weapon rolls and synergies on guns to make more sense depending on the weapon itself. Players been asking to make T4 lock boxes worth buying. *So Trion is going to make weapons over all more meaningful because of better rolls which will result in less trash loot but at the same time had to balance loots drops so loot wont become this diluted thing and lose its meaning. They upped the rewards for lock boxes but at the same time have to balance that out by retro actively raising the cost of keys if such powerful weapons are to be granted through them.*

So a couple more then a hand full. 7&1/2 changes/nerfs that players ever freaked out about. That's not many. Each one needed and each one with reason and sense behind the change. Am I missing any? The old Shotgun change with x to mag is not around anymore, its all + mag now. So what else is there that is so bad that got nerfed and wasn't needed? Im not being biased, Im clawing my brain trying to think of them all.

What about the time players made millions of scrip through the Extra Life vendor exploit and had their scrip from that taking back? Is that a nerf?? Was that not needed?

What about the change to shields? That was more of a buff.

hmm, idk.:rolleyes:

I'll bite. Some of them were needed, and I don't really care about. The only reason I say because Grenades is out of comedic relief. If they really want to give us better weapons, they should have given it with the patch that the key codes and the AF were reduced on. Not All this time later. They should also make it 100% drop for 100 AF every time you buy that T4. It should also drop all purples with the chance of legendary because blues are not worth it.

With the introduction of TL, I will be damned to let my favorite weapons slide because they decided to reduce my only means to keep them up to date. I will not use a stupid green. They were too slow to implement the changes they wanted.

Beathrus
08-20-2014, 10:28 AM
So, I've been lurking and reading all of this, and I can see how some nerfs were needed and they were the sort to cause people to get upset. But the main point I think, is the sudden raise to drop rates of keys and the high price increase to upgrade weapon rarity. I think they just rushed forward and it caused a lot of upset players. Especially since I don't think Trion actually took the time to I'unno, maybe ask or try to figure out what would be an 'acceptable' level of increase? Further up in the thread someone said they raised it, by 12x. If so, I think they should drop it down to 8x, it'll still be an increase and people will pay, but it also won't cause such a long, ridiculous grind to upgrade weapons anymore. But then again, this is all just a newbs opinion, so far I am almost 2 days into playing and waiting to see what the 2.204 patch brings.

Dandrielas
08-20-2014, 10:30 AM
So, I've been lurking and reading all of this, and I can see how some nerfs were needed and they were the sort to cause people to get upset. But the main point I think, is the sudden raise to drop rates of keys and the high price increase to upgrade weapon rarity. I think they just rushed forward and it caused a lot of upset players. Especially since I don't think Trion actually took the time to I'unno, maybe ask or try to figure out what would be an 'acceptable' level of increase? Further up in the thread someone said they raised it, by 12x. If so, I think they should drop it down to 8x, it'll still be an increase and people will pay, but it also won't cause such a long, ridiculous grind to upgrade weapons anymore. But then again, this is all just a newbs opinion, so far I am almost 2 days into playing and waiting to see what the 2.204 patch brings.

Like I said, you are being very reasonable for being a new person which is why vets like you.

dramaQkarri
08-20-2014, 10:34 AM
Nah, I wanna see the list of nerfs. Here Ill do it for you. Here are the nerfs that sticked.

•Cars no longer being able to run over and kill everything (especially at Ark Falls). *Trion made enemies more resilient to getting hit since players could just run everything over. Much needed 'nerf'*

•Strain Reducer being changed to x1.10 fire rate to stop burst fire Infectors, mainly the Immunizer from being fully automatic. *Having a gun that can shoot that far at that rate and auto hit really had no place in the game working like that. A good fix.*

•Surge Bolter being able to kill nearly anything in 1 hit along with having 100% hip fire accuracy and no recoil. *That needed to be fixed, another needed nerf* - btw many players still consider the SB to powerful, so it must of not got nerfed that bad..

•Grenades. Before the change a player could get into a loop of just throwing one grenade one after another. *In turn they were limited and made into consumables that were also made stronger and were giving no cool down times other then a couple of seconds between throws. It was more then a even trade in making granades consumable. In the end Grenades became stronger then what they were before.*

•Cloak getting nerfed because it rendered users air clear in PvP. And the change only affects PvP. The cloak change has no barring on PvE. *it working like invisibility ruined PvP for what its worth and needed to get fixed.*

• Lock on range for the Blood Hound and Gang Buster to be reduced. *This was so needed. And because of so now the weapons are balanced when considering what they can do. I don't even want to write out why. But to just sum it up. Gang Buster's power, Bloodhounds lock on and rapid fire efficiency, 40m is half the range of which Snipers can engage at which is 80m, lock on weapons half that range at the rate or power they dish out is more then good enough.*

•Ego Recharge on reload and Speed Boost on reload and other reload bonuses getting cool down times. *Ego Recharge on reload was used to undermine the very perks that are made to shave Ego recharge times down which resulted in some of the most over powered and unbalanced things that can be done in the game. A needed nerf if there was any.*

-Reward system and more meaningful loot. This is not even a nerf as it is a work in progess. Players have been asking since forever for weapon rolls and synergies on guns to make more sense depending on the weapon itself. Players been asking to make T4 lock boxes worth buying. *So Trion is going to make weapons over all more meaningful because of better rolls which will result in less trash loot but at the same time had to balance loots drops so loot wont become this diluted thing and lose its meaning. They upped the rewards for lock boxes but at the same time have to balance that out by retro actively raising the cost of keys if such powerful weapons are to be granted through them.*

So a couple more then a hand full. 7&1/2 changes/nerfs that players ever freaked out about. That's not many. Each one needed and each one with reason and sense behind the change. Am I missing any? The old Shotgun change with x to mag is not around anymore, its all + mag now. So what else is there that is so bad that got nerfed and wasn't needed? Im not being biased, Im clawing my brain trying to think of them all.

What about the time players made millions of scrip through the Extra Life vendor exploit and had their scrip from that taking back? Is that a nerf?? Was that not needed?

What about the change to shields? That was more of a buff.

hmm, idk.:rolleyes:

How did you completely leave SAWs and Combat Shotguns off of this list? Hmmmmmmmmm?

These were the ORIGINAL nerfs, before even because grenades so how could we forget THAT?

Bentu
08-20-2014, 10:35 AM
So... Plain and simple, just want to know, what exactly changed to suddenly run everyone off the PS3, PC, and Xbox versions exactly? I keep hearing about an update caused it, but can you explain?

Things that P'd me off were/are

The Saw nerf, they also changed the scopes at the same time. Forcing me to re mod 18 or so weapons on both servers.
Then there was the new scoring system they introduced with the arenas. Made solo play very difficult, don't mind difficult, just not very.
Then the Warmaster debacle and letter, I call it the "minority report".
Then the U turn re weapon rarity upgrade. I was really looking forward to upgrading my Diablo etc to oj and of course the key and arcforge nerf.

Sorry the grenades thing didn't bother me.

Kyosji
08-20-2014, 10:38 AM
How bout those Epic Mod Boxes that only give you green mods, and usually with no synergy. I've had a few like that, lol.

sericks
08-20-2014, 10:47 AM
What about the nerf of taking toxic out all they had to do is make it do something different from corrosive.

TheOz
08-20-2014, 10:58 AM
So... Plain and simple, just want to know, what exactly changed to suddenly run everyone off the PS3, PC, and Xbox versions exactly? I keep hearing about an update caused it, but can you explain?

Why have veterans left the game or are on the way out?
That is a very good question.

Easy answer is fatigue.
I recently thought about all of the hours that I have put into Defiance and it got me curious about just how many hours I have put into other games I have played a lot.
I scoured my memory banks for games I had played for at least 100 hours and of the 22 games on my list only 3 did I put in any significant time after 18 months.
Defiance has been out for 16 months now, a lot of great games have released in that time with many more soon to come.
Chocolate ice cream is awesome, but occasionally you just want to have something different and eat some strawberry swirl.

The long answer . . . will get me banned. As I have not decided to completely abandon Defiance yet, I will remain silent.

Nefarious
08-20-2014, 01:27 PM
How did you completely leave SAWs and Combat Shotguns off of this list? Hmmmmmmmmm?

These were the ORIGINAL nerfs, before even because grenades so how could we forget THAT?

Those things really didn't stick. They're not precedent today. At the time they were needed with shotguns being crazy powerful along with huge mag sizes. The same for the SAW at the time it was way to strong. Shotguns since then have been panned out and giving back their +mag and SAWs.. what of them now? They are still strong and can get stronger because of weapon leveling. Its not as clean cut anymore as them going from mid 400+ to being nerfed down to low 300+ dmg. Now its 3000+ bordering or going over 4000.

dramaQkarri
08-20-2014, 01:34 PM
Those things really didn't stick. They're not precedent today. At the time they were needed with shotguns being crazy powerful along with huge mag sizes. The same for the SAW at the time it was way to strong. Shotguns since then have been panned out and giving back their +mag and SAWs.. what of them now? They are still strong and can get stronger because of weapon leveling. Its not as clean cut anymore as them going from mid 400+ to being nerfed down to low 300+ dmg. Now its 3000+ bordering or going over 4000.

A nerf is a nerf and there was an outcry. Therefore, they still COUNT.

dramaQkarri
08-20-2014, 01:35 PM
What about the nerf of taking toxic out all they had to do is make it do something different from corrosive.

I still have a toxic pistol from the top notch vendor in my inventory. It still works ;)

Cavadus
08-20-2014, 01:51 PM
What about the nerf of taking toxic out all they had to do is make it do something different from corrosive.

That wasn't a nerf at all. Toxic was simply renamed Radioactive. All that was changed was the name and the icon. Mechanically, the effect itself went untouched.

The only reason Toxic is still hanging around to this day is because they made the change in late beta and whomever was in charge of the weapon conversions didn't do a terribly good job.

dramaQkarri
08-20-2014, 02:05 PM
That wasn't a nerf at all. Toxic was simply renamed Radioactive. All that was changed was the name and the icon. Mechanically, the effect itself went untouched.

The only reason Toxic is still hanging around to this day is because they made the change in late beta and whomever was in charge of the weapon conversions didn't do a terribly good job.

Shhhhhhhh I like having a toxic pistol. It feels like contraband.

eirich_liath
08-20-2014, 02:22 PM
*snip* didn't do a terribly good job.Sums up a lot of the answers pertaining to this game...

MrClip26
08-20-2014, 02:50 PM
How bout those Epic Mod Boxes that only give you green mods, and usually with no synergy. I've had a few like that, lol.

this has happened to me on the 3 iv'e gotten. only 1 epic mod. a scavenger sniper butstock. one would think if the box is purple it would say just like the others do, "contains 4 rare item or better with ect ect..nope..t2 mods all day.

430005
08-20-2014, 02:52 PM
But in turn...

Their response was a "hidden" nerf, further decreasing AF and droprate on T2 and T3 boxes, giving us a Wildcat in return, which had to see several revisions before it became usefull. Even if you would get that Wildcat to drop, you probably already are using a doublecrit Wolfhound or Wildcat and the mob you most likely will be using it for still isnt working properly. Luckily we still got some sharp players around.


What about the time players made millions of scrip through the Extra Life vendor exploit and had their scrip from that taking back? Is that a nerf?? Was that not needed?

Ugh. I thought you were knowledgable. Go look up what a nerf is in the dictionary. It's not fixing an exploit. No matter what argument you want to try to pitch, Trion killed the chase. What's the point you are trying to make? Trion should charge us for repairing economy breaking bugs?

From the DLC till now Trion has shown a lack in communication skills when it comes to the community. I understand the background for some of the changes but implementation and result of said changes are way off. You can't wave that away with "working as intended", "cuz grenades, bro" or "Soon".

Nefarious
08-20-2014, 03:37 PM
I was joking about the EL exploit. Just put that in there because no matter how ridiculous some things are in the game that get fixed players will still whine about it. Case and point ppl tried to defend the EL exploit just as they do about every other majorly unbalanced thing.

And please how many ppl do you think are using double crit assassin OJ Wildcats or even Wolfhounds? Are you really trying to discredit such a gun? How about this, if you land it from a T4 lock box you can give it to me since you think they are a dime a dozen thing.

430005
08-20-2014, 03:50 PM
And please how many ppl do you think are using double crit assassin OJ Wildcats or even Wolfhounds? Are you really trying to discredit such a gun?

The fact that even you think it's not easy to land good weapons like a doublecrit wolfhound/wildcat PRE-nerf shows my point. Wasn't trying to discredit a gun, just showing it came off as a poor diversion.

No, I don't think theyre a dime in a dozen. They were crap to get pre-nerf, i doubt you'll land the same wolfhound ever after the nerf. But ya, I got both in doublecrit version, so you can have mine.

eirich_liath
08-20-2014, 03:54 PM
I use a triple crit wolfhound in my "go-to" load out. Assassin, radiation, 7.4 crit. Love it and it does its job against the bad guys nicely.

430005
08-20-2014, 03:57 PM
I use a triple crit wolfhound in my "go-to" load out.

Now we're talkin.

Nefarious
08-20-2014, 03:57 PM
The fact that even you think it's not easy to land good weapons like a doublecrit wolfhound/wildcat PRE-nerf shows my point. Wasn't trying to discredit a gun, just showing it came off as a poor diversion.

No, I don't think theyre a dime in a dozen. They were crap to get pre-nerf, i doubt you'll land the same wolfhound ever after the nerf. But ya, i got both in doublecrit version, so you can have mine.

Such things are the best as they can get. Good that its not easy to land. You know what that would be if they were? Zaggers. It would be like the Zagger. And everyone then would be pointing out on how the 7+ Crit pistols that everyone is using is killing everything to quick just like the Surge Bolter used to. Everyone had easy access to the best gun ever in the Surge Bolter and the enemies in the game didn't stand a chance. So idk what your point is since we been there and did that and it didn't do any favors to help the game be better.

430005
08-20-2014, 04:04 PM
Such things are the best as they can get. Good that its not easy to land.

I would refer to the guy with the triple crit wolfhound for "best as they can get". The point is, it's overkill to throw a nerf on the rewards and then ANOTHER (hidden) nerf ontop of that nerf. So what, you got more guys who do 7.4 crit instead of 6.8 crit. It wont matter to make the game be better.

Killing playability and driving vets away is what makes the game be worse.

l Krazey Ivan l
08-20-2014, 04:26 PM
So... Plain and simple, just want to know, what exactly changed to suddenly run everyone off the PS3, PC, and Xbox versions exactly? I keep hearing about an update caused it, but can you explain?

Lets see where can I start ? first and foremost they "fix" things that don't need fixing and leave things that do need fixing. They fixed the warmaster and now it is practically impossible to kill him, they insulted us when we pointed this out to them, they took away our ability to make good weapons by encrypting them, they took away the arkforge from the boxes and now we get practically nothing from them including the purple boxes. Then they took away the rewards for Arkfalls , they reduced the keys and arkforge to practicaly nothing. They tried to force us to buy from the bit store with their 1mill lockboxes. these are just some of the reasons that veteran players are leaving the game im sure if you talk to others you will get a lot more reasons. Basically we feel trion are shafting us all. A lot of the players have been playing since the game was released and have already spent hundreds on it buying things out of the bit store which is overpriced and on the DLC which apart from a couple where mostly crap but we carried on playing because we enjoyed the game and were hoping it would get better. Trion told us it would get better but all they did was nerf every thing that was good and are trying to gouge as much money out of us as they can. They have taken the fun out of it and made it feel like hard work.

Striker
08-21-2014, 03:47 AM
If T4s dropped that I wouldn't mind the key nerf at all. But last night I finally had enough keys for a T4 after three days of nightly grinding and was greeted with the usual: four crappy blues and some stims. Yeah, I'm sprinting to my wallet to buy bits so I'm not wasting just my time getting junk :rolleyes: Trion actually believes that making the game less enjoyable is the key to our wallets.

Shogo_Yahagi
08-21-2014, 06:17 AM
So... Plain and simple, just want to know, what exactly changed to suddenly run everyone off the PS3, PC, and Xbox versions exactly? I keep hearing about an update caused it, but can you explain?

Trick happened.