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Rashere
08-22-2014, 10:28 AM
Hello everybody! I wanted to pop in here and introduce myself and talk a bit about some changes we’re making that should find their way to PTS soon.

First things first, my name is Travis McGeathy, though you’ll see me post as Rashere, a name I picked up in the early days of MMOs and that has stuck with me as a developer ever since. I’ve been making MMOs for about 18 years. In that time, I’ve worked on almost every genre out there from text MUDs to flight sims, turn-based strategy to first-person shooters, and everything in between. Before coming to Trion, I was the Design Director for an MMORPG known to the world as Project Copernicus and before that I was the Lead Designer on EverQuest (and now I just feel old…) I joined Trion a few months ago to work on another project and recently moved over to Defiance where I’ll be focusing on the game systems and economy (jumping right into the fire!)

With that out of the way, the stuff you actually care about: what am I doing?

Arkforge:
We’ll be reducing the cost associated with increasing the EGO rating of an item.

I’ve been looking at the rate that Arkforge is entering the game after the recent changes relative to the costs associated with upgrading weapons. As some of your feedback has attested to, even if you’re focused on finding Arkforge, you’ll tend to gain EGO faster than you’ll find the Arkforge needed to upgrade your high end items. Since enemy difficulty scales as your EGO increases, this puts you in a rough spot. After this change, assuming you’re seeking out Arkforge drops, you should be able to keep an Epic item levelled with you without too much trouble. Keeping a Legendary upgraded will be more difficult, though not so out of reach as it is currently.

Some of you will ask why reduce the costs instead of increasing the drop rates since the initial change was to lower the drop rates? The answer is largely because of the cost associated with upgrading the rarity of an item. That’s something that should be difficult, especially upgrading from an Epic to a Legendary item, and increasing the drop rates would also affect those upgrade costs.

That leads me to encryption.

Encryption:
We’re going to reduce, or remove altogether, items dropping in an encrypted state, with the exception of Legendary items for obvious reasons.

Legendary items should be, if not actually Legendary, at least very hard to obtain. Unfortunately, when you can take an Uncommon drop and bring it all the way to Legendary, that’s no longer true and it leaves you, as a player, with very little to look forward to in the future. Encryption helps with that since you can only upgrade an item one rarity tier before it’s locked, so that Uncommon that was trivial to get can only become a Rare at best. To get a Legendary, you need to start with Epic (which would be a great life motto, actually). It leaves room for new, better items to enter the world and find their way to your inventory.

That being said, difficult to upgrade is one thing, impossible is another. When the majority of new items are dropping in a pre-encrypted state, it renders the upgrade feature largely useless.

This is probably a bit shocking to some folks since auto-encryption was just introduced and this seems like an about face. Put simply, that’s because it is. Sometimes you accidentally use a hammer when you really needed a scalpel. I believe the encryption system itself, combined with the Arkforge cost required to upgrade an Epic to a Legendary, is sufficient to ensure Legendary items remain highly desirable. Auto-encrypting the majority of drops on top of that doesn’t add a lot of value. So, I’d like to fix that.

Lock Boxes:
We’re removing a host of items that you feel are undesirable from the lock boxes and bumping the T4 lock boxes to always drop at least 1 epic item.

Phantasie has talked about our goal of ensuring you’re getting value out of the lock boxes (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?170929-An-update-on-the-recent-reward-changes) and this is part of it. We’ve seen a lot of feedback that it sucks to get 4 blues when buying the big box and we agree. I think ensuring an Epic on those T4 Lock Boxes will be a big step toward that goal.

We’ll also be introducing lock boxes that only drop weapons or only drop shields. This comes from player feedback that some people are trying to get just a weapon or just a shield and they’d like to be able to focus their purchases on those.

For the weapons, defining undesirable is tricky since it’s very subjective, but there was a great thread (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?171286-Undesirable-Weapon-research) on these forums that helped pinpoint weapons that most of you feel are currently undesirable. I plan to retune those weapons so they are more desirable in the future, but that’s going to take some time. In the meantime, we’ll be removing them from the T2, T3, and T4 lock boxes. The affected weapons are:

VOT Mazu Blast Rifle
VOT Bolter
VOT Meteor Bolter
VOT Blast Rifle
VOT Rebounder Cannon
VOT Fragger
VOT Swarm Cannon
VOT Auto Fragger
VOT Outbreaker
VOT Breaker Cannon
VOT Infector
VOT Longshot Cannon
VOT Afflictor
VBI SMG
VBI INF-27 Immunizer
VBI AR1 Armada
VBI Short-Barrel Shotgun
VBI Auto-Shotgun
VBI Guided Launcher
VBI LM-43 Thunder
VBI LM-12 Rocker
VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle
VBI Shotgun
FRC Birdshot Pump
FRC Magnum
FRC Sub-Carbine
FRC Particle Repeater
FRC Northstar Flare
FRC Nomad SMG
FRC Rocket Pod
FRC Sawed-off Scattergun
FRC Innoculator
FRC Incubator
FRC Interceptor
VOT Auto Lobber
VOT Rebound Lobber
FRC Crash Boomer
FRC Matchlock Boomer

Feel free to chime in if I’m yanking your favorite gun or if there’s some abomination you feel should be on the list. I’m erring on the side of caution here, so unlikely to remove something that’s controversial, but I’m happy to get the feedback and take a look. If you want to take a look at how it works before it goes live, this should be showing up on the Public Test Server (PTS) in the next couple of days. Hop on, try it out, and let us know what you think.

If you read this far, thanks for your time! That’s a lot to digest at once. I’m in the process of making these changes now and they’ll be hitting PTS as fast as I can get them done. Keep an eye on the PTS patch notes so you’ll have the opportunity to come try them out and let us know what you think before they go live.

Looking forward to getting to know you all better,
Travis “Rashere” McGeathy

Market
08-22-2014, 10:34 AM
Really glad to see you here!! ;)

That is pretty awesome stuff!!

Copperpot
08-22-2014, 10:35 AM
Nice to meet you Rashere.

http://media2.giphy.com/media/GCLlQnV7wzKLu/200.gif

Slayer Slayn
08-22-2014, 10:47 AM
Welcome and i'll pre-empt the problems sure to eventually be had with a "I am so sorry for you." that said after reading your intro and the things you have planned I can honestly say "Please. oh yes. Oh god yes. why weren't you here earlier?! if you actually get half of your initial wants done you will have accomplished a crap tonne of stuff that needed to be fixed and I thank you in advance for any and all hard work you do!"

So expect a lot of crap from us forum folks. a LOT. we have just become so disheartened and cynical its gonna take a bit of work to get our trust. Despite my lovely demeanor even I have been so angry that I ignored the "forum toxicity policy" and rage quit once already. Came back after I had time to cool down and for the team to fix things. so hang in there and stick to what you say and you may have a pretty positive impact on this community. Ganbatte!

BlackTalons
08-22-2014, 10:49 AM
You are my new Best Friend Forever

Get a load of my sig.

Flank
08-22-2014, 10:50 AM
Welcome.. and thank you for your initiative on these matters.
I like the route you are heading with this and the fact you took
the time to give us some detailed feedback into your endeavor.

That being said.. please do not pull The Vot Mazu Blast Rifle.
Is one of my favorite weapons. Easily in my top 2 assualt rifles.

Sliverbaer
08-22-2014, 11:05 AM
Ah, I miss killing Gnolls with my Ceni-Longswords....

It was long and I did read it all. All good changes! Very positive indeed.

ColapsN7
08-22-2014, 11:12 AM
Welcome SOE-> to -> TRION

VOT Grind Fragger:cool:
http://i65.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0822/de/16f1051d457c1fd6bc01d65d83927fde.jpg
VBI assault Rifle:cool:
http://i63.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0822/ef/253d942107d19a7574553cf2dbe541ef.jpg
VBI Sniper Rifle:cool:
http://i68.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0822/db/9d04a9bcbe6e3c2e99a9a14277b192db.jpg
Area Suppressor:cool:
http://i66.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0822/45/f339d2bc9eec45e948a5ef6e905eda45.jpg
Clusterdrop Detonator:cool:
http://i64.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0822/fd/23a8aa9292c9034e70f14e80cf4aedfd.jpg
VBI SS-2 Renger
http://i63.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0822/67/fa0d544582bdf1c55d9df8d54b9ddc67.jpg
VBI HP-6 Wolfhound
http://i66.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0822/69/3318042e1dc2c09db6adcdbd6b0d6369.jpg
VBI EEC SMG
http://i68.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0822/bb/91b198a73df4146e6ac2ea79f49168bb.jpg
VOT Needler
http://i67.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0822/19/4a709188a43ccd1edbb1b06a4d34e219.jpg
VBI LM-43 Thunder
http://i68.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0822/84/e385a1e7c3b30854e2039c77bdab5384.jpg
... .

*wait and see one year

Cavadus
08-22-2014, 11:29 AM
Wow, that list of weapons to be removed is excessive. It should probably only be half that long, if even that. There are some GOOD weapons on there.

Either way, I don't think you should be removing ANY weapons from lockboxes just because they're underpowered now.

Keeper Riff
08-22-2014, 11:32 AM
Hello and welcome.


Feel free to chime in if I’m yanking your favorite gunYes you are.

VOT Bolter — AFAIR, it's the one with increased fire rate, so it's the best for gaining bolt action killshots for pursuit.

VOT Outbreaker — good for shooting high-health targets (Hulkers, Arkfall crystals, etc) which doesn't spawn too many bugs to cause lag.

VOT Infector — It's better for a newcomer to master a basic model before they start choosing between ones with different traits. Just my opinion.

FRC Northstar Flare — one name: Jackleg Joe. Yes, sometimes you need to set things on fire. Repeatedly.

FRC Sub-Carbine — the best ammo-saving hip-firing SMG. I know we can buy one from the rep vendor, but I'd like to have all other nano effects on them too.

Faelx
08-22-2014, 11:35 AM
- FRC Sub-Carbine
Nice weapon and I use it a lot. Please don't remove it from lockboxes!

- VBI LM-43 Thunder
- VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle
They are not top guns but still can be useful.

I don't think there should be so many infectors in the list. Not every of them very nice but every of them has it's benefits.

And what about coming nerfs? We all know that sometimes something very useful becomes very nerfed and when this happens, where can we find replacement for nerfed guns if lockboxes' assortment will be nerfed too?

Rashere
08-22-2014, 11:46 AM
Great feedback everyone. Since I think we'll see a lot of debate on what weapons should or shouldn't be on that list, I set up a new thread specifically for that (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?172562-Undesireable-Lockbox-Weapons&p=1603688#post1603688). Please post your comments there so we have a good, focused discussion going.

I also want to be clear: my goal is to re-tune those weapons so they're more desirable. Pulling them from the lock boxes is a temporary thing to help ensure quality drops from those boxes in the meantime. They'll still drop in the game world and I'll return them to the boxes after they've been tuned.

Rashere

Fun01
08-22-2014, 11:47 AM
VBI Guided Launcher
VBI LM-43 Thunder

I love them, if possible please keep those 2 in the boxes.
Thank you in advance.

SymbolicGamer
08-22-2014, 11:51 AM
I agree with lowering Ark Forge cost.
I agree with removing the encryption from item drops.
I agree with Tier 4 lockboxes giving at least 1 purple. Hopefully this carries over to the million scrip lockbox (though with that price you should be guaranteed four purples).

I disagree with the FRC Northstar Flare, VBI LM-43 Thunder, and VOT Swarm Cannon being removed from lockboxes.

My suggestions:
Keep the new rate at which you earn Keycodes and Arkforge at events, but lower the Scrip and Ark Salvage cost of Keycodes back to what they were before. Paying up to 323,000 scrip and 640,000 Ark Forge for one Tier 4 Box is just way too much.

Expand on the whole encrypting guns thing. Encrypted guns get a 3% damage increase. That's not meaningful at all. I think it'd be cool if we could change the Encryption bonus. For example, Gunslinger weapons can occasionally trigger EGO Powers. I'd like to encrypt other guns with similar effects, or maybe even add a second elemental nano. You could buy these encryption options from the different faction vendors.

ColapsN7
08-22-2014, 12:02 PM
up date *Photo Gallery Weapons ;=) **eventually add
http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?172550-Introduction-and-an-Update&p=1603655&viewfull=1#post1603655

Big Jack Shepard
08-22-2014, 12:12 PM
Not too long; did read.

Welcome, and I hope you aren't too late. The game is in an awful state right now.

Sincerely, I wish you luck.

LegendaryU2K
08-22-2014, 12:45 PM
Welcome. As for removing guns from lock boxes, don't care. I mean i can buy those weapons from shops and find them still right???

hardy83
08-22-2014, 12:56 PM
I still think the best way to rebalance encryption is...

White, green and blue quality gear will never be encrypted when they drop in the world, lockbox or reward.

Only upgrading from blue to epic and epic to orange encrypts the gear.
Upgrading from white to green to blue does not encrypt.

Epics as a reward or drop have a 50% chance of being encrypted.
Epics from lockboxes has a lower chance or being encrypted. Like 30-40% or something.

That's my opinion anyways.
It keeps oranges hard to get but doesn't make so many weapons worthless.

soria
08-22-2014, 01:00 PM
best news for a long time.well done,
But,remove the VBI SMG.really one of the best SMGs in the game,as above VOT Bolter rapid firing best of its type.Bear in mind its not always the weapon but the lack of nano that is the issue

maverick07
08-22-2014, 01:01 PM
Welcome to the forums Rashere!
It's good to have you here.

I like your plans for Arkforge and Encryption. It should help improve the state of things in the long run, but there are still some more issues, and hopefully they will be addressed soon after.

I am also excited to finally hear that bad weapon types will be getting a needed boost! A couple things I wanted to say about the weapon rebalancing.

First off - the list. There are some weapons that don't really belong on there (Sub Carbine, Thunder, VOT Fragger, Longshot Cannon, and some others). There are also some weapons that should be on the list that are not. And there are certain weapons that are on the list but really only need slight adjustments (such as the VBI SMG).

I'm not sure if it's really necessary to remove them all from the loot table either. If we can work to get the right weapons buffed to a better level it won't matter if we pull them now or not.

I also think that doing groups of weapon classes at one time would be easier to do and test in PTS as well (AR/SMG/LMGs, All Shotguns, etc). If we try to do everything at once it's possible that some weapons could be ignored. Or some weapons could be buffed too much. I also think that in some cases, entire weapon classes need adjusting, such as snipers (especially Bolt Actions).

Holy Bahamut3
08-22-2014, 01:01 PM
Welcome, to both you and the changes you described. I'll definitely chime in on that other thread, but wanted to state that everything on your list needs to be tweaked in some way or another, so good job.

Blakkheim
08-22-2014, 01:23 PM
Did you get to meet Curt Shilling?

I grew up in Boston (before moving to warmer climates) and I feel Rhode Island really railroaded someone who will forever be apart of Boston Lore and deserved better than the name smearing they told the media.

Savage Hero
08-22-2014, 01:24 PM
Welcome to the forums Rashere, hope you own some riot gear cause you're jumping right into the thick of us forum folks. You have a nice list of what you plan to do and it's promising but actions speak louder than words. Too much has happened between us the community and you all at Trion to trust what you say at face value (post value, whatever!). That being said I hope you can accomplish what you set out to do because it is shaping up to be a step in the right direction hopefully.

Big Jack Shepard
08-22-2014, 01:28 PM
Seeing plenty of "Apr 2013" in this thread. That is something to take note of Rashere.

Rashere
08-22-2014, 01:33 PM
Did you get to meet Curt Shilling?

I grew up in Boston (before moving to warmer climates) and I feel Rhode Island really railroaded someone who will forever be apart of Boston Lore and deserved better than the name smearing they told the media.

Every day for 5 years. I consider Curt a good friend. He's an amazing man and I count myself lucky to have been able to work so closely with him.

Midori Oku
08-22-2014, 01:38 PM
I really like this! Most of the weapons I agree need to be adjusted. Especially the VOT Blast Rifle. I love the gun, but it's just so weak compared to the rest of the assault rifles. Although, don't quite understand why the VOT Fragger, VBI SMG, VBI LM-43 Thunder, and FRC Rocket Pod are on the list. I think they are really good as is.

I do have a question though. Would any changes to a gun apply to any variant of the gun? For example, if you raised the fire rate of the VBI SMG, would you also increase the fire rate of the EEC SMG?

Rashere
08-22-2014, 01:39 PM
I do have a question though. Would any changes to a gun apply to any variant of the gun? For example, if you raised the fire rate of the VBI SMG, would you also increase the fire rate of the EEC SMG?

I started down that path, but it quickly got extremely complicated so I just stuck with the basic list for now. If there are particular variants of a weapon you'd like to call out, please do so.

Rashere

SanCarioca
08-22-2014, 01:41 PM
First things first, my name is Travis McGeathy, though you’ll see me post as Rashere, a name I picked up in the early days of MMOs and that has stuck with me as a developer ever since. I’ve been making MMOs for about 18 years. In that time, I’ve worked on almost every genre out there from text MUDs to flight sims, turn-based strategy to first-person shooters, and everything in between. Before coming to Trion, I was the Design Director for an MMORPG known to the world as Project Copernicus and before that I was the Lead Designer on EverQuest (and now I just feel old…) I joined Trion a few months ago to work on another project and recently moved over to Defiance where I’ll be focusing on the game systems and economy (jumping right into the fire!)


That's a very impressive resumé, Travis. Congratulations both on you, for establishing a career like that, and on Trion, for investing what appears to be top dollar in our beloved game. I'm sincerely flattered by it.



Arkforge:
We’ll be reducing the cost associated with increasing the EGO rating of an item.


This is excellent. I can personally chime in about this: I stopped upgrading my epics to legendary, because it costs only 20 AF to upgrade the rarity of a purple, but a legendary will cost you 50 AF. So it made sense, economically, to me, to mantain my weapons at a low cost of maintenance, untill I reached higher levels. I´ve been doing this for months, and have several "abandoned" legendaries in my inventory list. I keep only one "go-to" weapon as a leveled up orange, all my other guns are either low egos, or purples.

With that change, there will be a great incentive to actually spend your Arkforge. Thank you.



Encryption:
We’re going to reduce, or remove altogether, items dropping in an encrypted state, with the exception of Legendary items for obvious reasons.


I agree with one of the suggestions made in this thread: make white and greens being able to upgrade to purples, and then encrypt them with a meaningfull boost (3% is really nothing, but gaining a great, significative, roll means everything). You'd still make oranges legendaries, and people still would have incentive to spend AF.

When encryption did not exist at all, I used whites, greens and blues all the time. If a new weapon had a better damage or synergy than the other I was using, I'd salvage or sell it and start using the new one. W/G/B have the advantage of being cheap to mantain rarity upgrades, and I could always count on upgrading them to the next level before. Making it possible to bring them at least to purple could recapture this.



Lock Boxes:
We’re removing a host of items that you feel are undesirable from the lock boxes and bumping the T4 lock boxes to always drop at least 1 epic item.


Awesome! I love epics!



We’ll also be introducing lock boxes that only drop weapons or only drop shields. This comes from player feedback that some people are trying to get just a weapon or just a shield and they’d like to be able to focus their purchases on those.


People always say 7th Legion was the worst DLC of the pack. Perhaps it's the weakest, because it does not contain any nem missions or exclusve mechanics. But I must say I'm VERY pleased with the lockboxes I open from 7th Legion *and* Gunslinger (VBI) vendors. They have exclusive weapons, with cool synergies and effects (Gunslinger weapons are awesome and 7th Legion shields have been the most useful to me so far) and every 5th lockbox I open gives me an exclusive outfit or headgear.

The DLCs are very inexpensive and offer great value for the money. I'd like to see more of them. If I had to pick one, I'd say Gunslinger Trials was the best one, but I also loved the scene in the Arkbreaker DLC where you climb up the bridge to position the Ark Battery (or was it?). Please, give us more ways to purchase more missions that give us exclusive scenery like that. I want Trion to make money, so I can still play this game.



For the weapons, defining undesirable is tricky since it’s very subjective (...). The affected weapons are:

VBI SMG


NO ONE PUTS VBI SMG ON THE CORNER!

Sorry. Remember the legendary I was talking about? This is it. I love the VBI SMG because of its precision when in view mode. I have a VBI SMG Radiation beast that can take down an Ark Volge Bomber in one clip, so...



If you read this far, thanks for your time! That’s a lot to digest at once. I’m in the process of making these changes now and they’ll be hitting PTS as fast as I can get them done. Keep an eye on the PTS patch notes so you’ll have the opportunity to come try them out and let us know what you think before they go live.

Looking forward to getting to know you all better,
Travis “Rashere” McGeathy

Thank YOU, Travis.

On a personal note, I also have to thank Trion for the latest changes to the game. I may be one of the few exceptions in the forum that actually think you do love this game, and you are trying to do the best you can to balance both economies (players' and Trion's). I want Defiance to succeed. Count on me for that.

Holy Bahamut3
08-22-2014, 01:42 PM
I really enjoyed playing Kingdoms of Amalur, although I never finished it. Salvatore is my favorite Author.

Eugenitor
08-22-2014, 01:51 PM
Arkforge:
We’ll be reducing the cost associated with increasing the EGO rating of an item.

This generally mitigates the most serious problem, so, uh, thanks? At least I'll be able to level up again, I guess.

The 2.2 changes were still a vicious cash grab, though.


Encryption:
We’re going to reduce, or remove altogether, items dropping in an encrypted state, with the exception of Legendary items for obvious reasons.

Another "Yeah, I guess this kind of mitigates the problem, but..." Most dropped epics won't be fundamentally worthless anymore, so there's that, right?

Of course it gives people something else to spend arkforge on (which you're still keeping ridiculously hard to get), so it's more cash grab, really.

Make it so people don't pretty much have to spend real-world money to have any hope of upgrading those epics to legendary and then Trion might gain back a smidge of respect.


<huge list of items to be removed>

Um. It's numbers on a spreadsheet. How long could it possibly take to take a stab at rebalancing them instead of throwing them out entirely?

Iceberg
08-22-2014, 01:52 PM
Welcome to the forums, and to Defiance! Keep your hands and feet inside at all times while you are on this ride, there are some steep drops and a few loop-d-loops.

Good to hear that some changes are coming, talking about tuning guns is nice and all but the underline issue that I see is from the enemy scaling from the threat levels. Are you going to look into that mess? Any plans on changing the war master to show damage done instead of score?

BJWyler
08-22-2014, 01:55 PM
Arkforge:
We’ll be reducing the cost associated with increasing the EGO rating of an item.

Some of you will ask why reduce the costs instead of increasing the drop rates since the initial change was to lower the drop rates? The answer is largely because of the cost associated with upgrading the rarity of an item. That’s something that should be difficult, especially upgrading from an Epic to a Legendary item, and increasing the drop rates would also affect those upgrade costs.
I agree that that was a good choice and agree with the reasons.


Encryption:
We’re going to reduce, or remove altogether, items dropping in an encrypted state, with the exception of Legendary items for obvious reasons.
Good. That's an excellent idea.


Legendary items should be, if not actually Legendary, at least very hard to obtain.
I would agree if Defiance was a hardcore RPG and not a shooter/hybrid. However, when the changes with 1.5 essentially created a vertical progression system, you made the top tier items BiS by default. Legendary items should not be de-facto BiS items, but prestige items that are not any more powerful than the "normal" top tier items (in this case, Epics).


Unfortunately, when you can take an Uncommon drop and bring it all the way to Legendary, that’s no longer true and it leaves you, as a player, with very little to look forward to in the future.
Truthfully, being able to do that was the only thing, aside from finishing my pursuits, that I looked forward to in the game. To me, that was the most fulfilling chase I could have had - taking a gun that has been by my side through thick and shtacko and using my skills as an Ark Hunter to make that weapon better as I got better. Once I did that with one weapon, what did I look forward to next? I looked forward to using that weapon in battle playing repeatable content (the number one thing any player of any game should look forward to is experiencing content), and looking for the next weapon I could use that I liked and taking that one all the way to Legendary.


Encryption helps with that since you can only upgrade an item one rarity tier before it’s locked, so that Uncommon that was trivial to get can only become a Rare at best. To get a Legendary, you need to start with Epic (which would be a great life motto, actually). It leaves room for new, better items to enter the world and find their way to your inventory.
Which means it becomes pointless to upgrade anything other than an Epic weapon, making Upgrading Rarity almost pointless as having weapons drop already encrypted. Sometimes players in a shooter game have no interest in having inventory taken up with new, fairly useless weapons, but having the opportunity of making the weapons they have and like even better.


That being said, difficult to upgrade is one thing, impossible is another. When the majority of new items are dropping in a pre-encrypted state, it renders the upgrade feature largely useless.
Like I said, so does limiting the upgrade feature to one rarity level.



Lock Boxes:
We’re removing a host of items that you feel are undesirable from the lock boxes and bumping the T4 lock boxes to always drop at least 1 epic item.
Well at least that's something. Personally speaking, T4's should never drop anything less than a Blue (and no more than 2 blues per box).

In the end, leaving the encryption system in place is pretty much the final disappointment for me. It would make more sense if we had the ability to re-roll synergies and the rarity bonus rolls on our weapons at will, but since we do not have that ability, nor do we have any indication of when it may come (if ever), then there really is less and less of a point of me continuing to play this game beyond finishing the last handful of pursuits.

MJS
08-22-2014, 01:57 PM
While its nice to someone that might give this poor game some new life and a much needed overhaul your list of weapons is extreme. You have many guns on there that are very good weapons and should not be reduced at all. A few are the VOT Mazu Blast Rifle,VBI SMG,VBI INF-27 Immunizer,VBI LM-43 Thunder,FRC Northstar Flare. Also when dealing with weapons the overall dmg per weapon type needs to be addressed, and NO i dont mean to have more crap nerfed on us. But if your carting around a guided missile you expect it to do BIG dmg, which is why we can carry so few rockets. But when you get a missile that does sniper dmg it is useless, which is why no-one shots them, It is pointless. Now if they did something like 300-400K per missile and we can carry only 15 tops this is reasonable. I would suggest to get the forums opinion on your list for a week or two before making any changes, or better yet, jump into the game for a weekend and play with use and see for yourself what guns are being used and how/where. Just because someone says a gun needs to go because they dont want it in PVP or in a Monkey that is no accurate. Please dont become like the rest of Trion and start going way overboard, listen to the gamers. And with that welcome to Wonderland, the hole is behind you now. Time to start digging out.

Bar6arian
08-22-2014, 02:04 PM
Thank you and I agree with most of what you say with the exception of Encryption.

Encryption:
We’re going to reduce, or remove altogether <<<do this, why give us something that was fun to do and then take it away?, items dropping in an encrypted state, with the exception of Legendary items for obvious reasons.

Legendary items should be, if not actually Legendary, at least very hard to obtain. Unfortunately, when you can take an Uncommon drop and bring it all the way to Legendary, that’s no longer true and it leaves you, as a player, with very little to look forward to in the future. Encryption helps with that since you can only upgrade an item one rarity tier before it’s locked, so that Uncommon that was trivial to get can only become a Rare at best. To get a Legendary, you need to start with Epic (which would be a great life motto, actually). It leaves room for new, better items to enter the world and find their way to your inventory. RNG. NOT every weapon I upgraded was EPIC or Legendary to my play style. So it got me hunting for another similar weapon no matter what the rarity with the bonuses I wanted and upgrading that weapon to see if that was the one. It got me using Arkforge, not hording it as I am now.

That being said, difficult to upgrade is one thing, impossible is another. When the majority of new items are dropping in a pre-encrypted state, it renders the upgrade feature largely useless.

This is probably a bit shocking to some folks since auto-encryption was just introduced and this seems like an about face. Put simply, that’s because it is. Sometimes you accidentally use a hammer when you really needed a scalpel. I believe a sledgehammer was used when you just needed a hammer I believe the encryption system itself, combined with the Arkforge cost required to upgrade an Epic to a Legendary, is sufficient to ensure Legendary items remain highly desirable. Auto-encrypting the majority of drops on top of that doesn’t add a lot of value. So, I’d like to fix that. Agreed and Legendary items will ALWAYS remain highly desirable regardless but give the player the option to decided. Do they keep ever weapon they have legendary (will need to purchase inventory slots!) breakdown, sale, trade, or give them away!

In the meantime, we’ll be removing them from the T2, T3, and T4 lock boxes. The affected weapons are:

VOT Fragger <<< What is wrong with this shotgun? Mag bonuses have improved greatly but it's the mods/bonuses that are only a percentage of the base mag that is a problem.

VBI SMG <<< OMG No. Enjoy this SMG and its variants that I'm still trying to obtain. The one weapon that is a staple in my loadouts.

Bonehead
08-22-2014, 02:06 PM
I read the whole thread and I'm not too sure I can adapt to creative changes based on feedback and logic after being here for so long but I'm willing to give it a go.
It was a refreshing change of pace, that's for sure.

dramaQkarri
08-22-2014, 02:12 PM
Hello everybody!
<snip>
Looking forward to getting to know you all better,
Travis “Rashere” McGeathy

Glad you're here - IMHO the BUFF list is VERY LONG and before you get too ambitious, I'm glad to see you're willing to hone it down a bit. We don't want those guns to vanish out of the lockboxes and be gone for months on end. It would be nice to see smaller groups turnaround quicker.
_____________________________________________

Hey everyone, get a load of the new guy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFN4yDCVosQ

ateballing
08-22-2014, 02:16 PM
We would like to believe you but We have been hurt before. If you really want a relationship with us prove it. You say the right things but we have been deceived so many times.


Keep VBI Smg, VOT fragger

squidgod2000
08-22-2014, 02:18 PM
FRC Sub-Carbine — the best ammo-saving hip-firing SMG. I know we can buy one from the rep vendor, but I'd like to have all other nano effects on them too.

Second this. Also VIB SMG. Only reason people don't like it is because it needs to be aimed, unlike pulsers and tachmags (which is a whole nother can of worms. perfect-aim, no bloom, hip-fire SMGs are just plain silly).

The weapons list does seem excessive. There are some on there that, while not very popular for multiple reasons, are at least viable (unlike some others). As much as we'd all like better rewards from those god-damn lock boxes, it'd also be kinda lame if everything was good.

Shield box is a good idea. I still dream the dream of one day seeing an ARK shield drop (even after 800+ hours of play).

Iceberg
08-22-2014, 02:18 PM
I read the whole thread and I'm not too sure I can adapt to creative changes based on feedback and logic after being here for so long but I'm willing to give it a go.
It was a refreshing change of pace, that's for sure.

I am sure his boss('s) well get that fixed right quick for us.

squidgod2000
08-22-2014, 02:19 PM
I am sure his boss('s) well get that fixed right quick for us.

Trick maybe, but I'm not sure Hartsman even knows that Defiance exists.

blucifershammer13
08-22-2014, 02:27 PM
I love this game want it to work have been here from the start,upgradeing a weapon to OJ was great and cost a lot of arkforge. So what, so many don't even have a clue how to use them because they are new to the game . Many of us in clans try to help the new folks but the rules change so often it 's very hard. War Monkey for number one, we used to have some time to find enough folks to bring him down and help the uneducated to do better every time NO ONE is buying Ark Batteries and won't be,if you can't kill him! thanks for reading

Obvious Obbe
08-22-2014, 02:36 PM
Sir Rashere, you are more than welcome good man. You sound like a reasonable person and your ideas as put forward are sensible and acceptable.

Now i just had a brainfart as i sometimes tend to do as an entrepreneur, i was thinking about Trion's plight and i think i found the solution.

Please allow me... What about not one but 3 masteries per weapon, but you have to unlock them all separately but here's the kicker... you get to chose them yourself BUT... they are connected to certain perks you have so certain mastery affects will only work when you have the corresponding perk selected. Obviously the useless perks will get the best mastery bonuses and vice versa.... Imagine how much more rewarding, more specialised, more chase to make that ultimate weapon/ perk combo for that every situation... Imagine still being able to upgrading your weapons would be but then the chase would continue, now its up to you which three perks will you select for which three mastery bonusses...

Thank you, yes i am a genius, you may contact me to talk about payment options for my solution to all your problems.

Yours sincerely,
Crasharr

dramaQkarri
08-22-2014, 02:51 PM
Sir Rashere, you are more than welcome good man. You sound like a reasonable person and your ideas as put forward are sensible and acceptable.

Now i just had a brainfart as i sometimes tend to do as an entrepreneur, i was thinking about Trion's plight and i think i found the solution.

Please allow me... What about not one but 3 masteries per weapon, but you have to unlock them all separately but here's the kicker... you get to chose them yourself BUT... they are connected to certain perks you have so certain mastery affects will only work when you have the corresponding perk selected. Obviously the useless perks will get the best mastery bonuses and vice versa.... Imagine how much more rewarding, more specialised, more chase to make that ultimate weapon/ perk combo for that every situation... Imagine still being able to upgrading your weapons would be but then the chase would continue, now its up to you which three perks will you select for which three mastery bonusses...

Thank you, yes i am a genius, you may contact me to talk about payment options for my solution to all your problems.

Yours sincerely,
Crasharr

I like this. Points to a weapon crafting system that many of us would LOVE. If we could craft, I would have a reason to keep playing. As I pointed out in the past, what's left to do?

Beathrus
08-22-2014, 02:51 PM
Good to have you, Mr. Rashere! I'm new here too, And I am already looking forward to what you will bring.

justifiable187
08-22-2014, 02:58 PM
First, welcome.

Second, here are my thoughts on which weapons should remain in lockboxes:

VBI Short-Barrel Shotgun - The PvP backup weapon of choice in my 2nd slot - when you need a lot of firepower really quickly. I also have it as the 2nd slot when I'm using a sword for the same reason.

VBI Guided Launcher - Great in Shadow Wars at max range. Other rocket launchers become quite useless because the target has already moved by the time the rocket gets to them.

VBI Shotgun - This is one of the few shotguns that is actually useful at medium range. Most shotguns are doing 0 damage due to falloff while this is still doing damage.

FRC Sub-Carbine - This is one of the only burst weapons I regularly use. When paired with radiation synergy and the right rolls, it becomes really deadly. I was able to top the Warmaster back when 1 million was a great score with this weapon.

FRC Sawed-off Scattergun - Another backup weapon.

FRC Crash Boomer - Useful in sieges, especially plague sieges, where you don't have any delay caused by having to hit reload to detonate.

FRC Matchlock Boomer - Same as Crash Boomer - with slight delay to allow you to get out of the way, and more damage.

Unique One
08-22-2014, 03:09 PM
OMG. Common sense has come to defiance. Who would have thought it?

Welcome and thankyou in advance for fixing this recent mess.

TwistedEvil
08-22-2014, 03:17 PM
That's fine, whatever you and the team do to arkforge and weapons and lockboxes etc etc etc.. Let me be the first to point out, all that doesn't matter if we can't even stay playing the game. Several daily crits, extreme lag......bud, the game is barely playable. So whatever weapon changes etc you make should take a backseat to getting this 16 month old game a LOT more stable. If there is any doubt, read the fourms or better yet, go away from the office and log this game from home....it won't take long for the 'criticals' and lag to begin.

Most important issue is keeping us logged in.

Thanks

Riz
08-22-2014, 03:42 PM
Good to see sensible reason appear on the forums! :)

I fully understand the idea of lowering the EGO-upgrade costs instead of just dropping more Arkforge. Actually a good idea because upgrading rarity should indeed be a long term plan full of grinding, while upgrading the EGO-rating on a weapon or shield should be done relatively easy as players dont like to be 'forced' out of their favorite guns.

I still dont like the encryption. But i guess you're right when you're saying that getting an uncommon weapon up to legendary might spoil the 'chase' for better loot, it should be special. Not dropping (all) encrypted Epic's is a great compromise to give players some more chance to find their favorite gun and be able to make it legendary.

To get to the weapons on the list. They're not all that bad, just... yeah... undesirable. And that is mostly because the substitute is better. I'll give an example:

I love(d) using the VBI SMG's. Until DLC 3 they were -in my opinion, so it's debatable- the best SMG in the game. Had them in every flavour from fire to shock. Then you guys launched DLC 3 and gave us the 7th Legion Nezumi SMG. That's a VBI SMG with a bonus! Bye bye, VBI SMG. Well, if you managed to get a 7th Legion Nezumi of course. But then DLC 4 came! And we got the EEC SMG!! Another sort of VBI SMG, but this time with an even bigger bonus! Now i can Overcharge AND Blur at the same time! This means my favorite SMG from the start, the VBI SMG, has now been reduced to 3rd choice. And yes, i managed to find/buy/win EEC SMG's and Nezumi's in many Nano-types. Making my whole collection of VBI SMG's completely useless.

So the big problem with most of the guns on the list is not so much that they are bad. It's just that there are better options to use, better variants available.

But it's fixable! My EEC SMG-shock has about the same damage as my VBI SMG-shock, so i pick the EEC SMG for the obvious reason that it gives me a chance to Blur. But if the VBI SMG has a bigger chance to shock, or just simply has more damage i honestly wouldnt know if i would go with Blur or just pick the higher damage SMG. Should make the VBI SMG more desirable for me (or actually others since i already have em all lol).

Guess this would go for a lot of weapons on the list. They're not bad, just not the best. And since almost everyone agrees they're not the best, no one wants them nor uses them. Making the best choice for a certain weapontype pretty limited.

Just a peek at the 'market' ingame. Selling my OJ VBI SMG-bio would get me ~10-15k scrip. Selling my 7th Legion Nezumi SMG-bio would get me at least 10 times more. If i was to sell my OJ Magnum pistol i would be getting no response in zone-chat, even the vendor refuses to take it back! However, if i put my Wildcat up for sale half the server would go crazy.

Degan
08-22-2014, 04:15 PM
Welcome, glad to see you here.

Great to see some logic being used on the creative side of things of this game for a change. You've got your work cut out for you indeed, a jacked up game to sort out and an equally jacked up community that will take some effort to convince that much of anything that resembles improvement will happen anytime soon.

What you have shown in your OP is a very good start, and I myself will reserve judgement based on what transpires over the next couple of weeks.

Thanks for a very good OP, I hope communication like this becomes the norm.

Menov
08-22-2014, 04:16 PM
Hello everybody! I wanted to pop in here and introduce myself and talk a bit about some changes we’re making that should find their way to PTS soon.

First things first, my name is Travis McGeathy, though you’ll see me post as Rashere, a name I picked up in the early days of MMOs and that has stuck with me as a developer ever since. I’ve been making MMOs for about 18 years. In that time, I’ve worked on almost every genre out there from text MUDs to flight sims, turn-based strategy to first-person shooters, and everything in between. Before coming to Trion, I was the Design Director for an MMORPG known to the world as Project Copernicus and before that I was the Lead Designer on EverQuest (and now I just feel old…) I joined Trion a few months ago to work on another project and recently moved over to Defiance where I’ll be focusing on the game systems and economy (jumping right into the fire!)

Great to have you here. Kingdoms of Amalur was a great game with great vision for the future of that series. I was excited that it was going to move to mmorpg in the later installments and then saddened about the closure of it. R.A. Salvatore is one of my favorite authors, I so want a game in the Drizzt universe. :D Nice to have fresh eyes working on this great game of DeFi that has so much potential. ;)


With that out of the way, the stuff you actually care about: what am I doing?

Arkforge:
We’ll be reducing the cost associated with increasing the EGO rating of an item.

I’ve been looking at the rate that Arkforge is entering the game after the recent changes relative to the costs associated with upgrading weapons. As some of your feedback has attested to, even if you’re focused on finding Arkforge, you’ll tend to gain EGO faster than you’ll find the Arkforge needed to upgrade your high end items. Since enemy difficulty scales as your EGO increases, this puts you in a rough spot. After this change, assuming you’re seeking out Arkforge drops, you should be able to keep an Epic item levelled with you without too much trouble. Keeping a Legendary upgraded will be more difficult, though not so out of reach as it is currently.

Some of you will ask why reduce the costs instead of increasing the drop rates since the initial change was to lower the drop rates? The answer is largely because of the cost associated with upgrading the rarity of an item. That’s something that should be difficult, especially upgrading from an Epic to a Legendary item, and increasing the drop rates would also affect those upgrade costs.

That leads me to encryption.

Encryption:
We’re going to reduce, or remove altogether, items dropping in an encrypted state, with the exception of Legendary items for obvious reasons.

Legendary items should be, if not actually Legendary, at least very hard to obtain. Unfortunately, when you can take an Uncommon drop and bring it all the way to Legendary, that’s no longer true and it leaves you, as a player, with very little to look forward to in the future. Encryption helps with that since you can only upgrade an item one rarity tier before it’s locked, so that Uncommon that was trivial to get can only become a Rare at best. To get a Legendary, you need to start with Epic (which would be a great life motto, actually). It leaves room for new, better items to enter the world and find their way to your inventory.

That being said, difficult to upgrade is one thing, impossible is another. When the majority of new items are dropping in a pre-encrypted state, it renders the upgrade feature largely useless.

This is probably a bit shocking to some folks since auto-encryption was just introduced and this seems like an about face. Put simply, that’s because it is. Sometimes you accidentally use a hammer when you really needed a scalpel. I believe the encryption system itself, combined with the Arkforge cost required to upgrade an Epic to a Legendary, is sufficient to ensure Legendary items remain highly desirable. Auto-encrypting the majority of drops on top of that doesn’t add a lot of value. So, I’d like to fix that.

Lock Boxes:
We’re removing a host of items that you feel are undesirable from the lock boxes and bumping the T4 lock boxes to always drop at least 1 epic item.

Phantasie has talked about our goal of ensuring you’re getting value out of the lock boxes (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?170929-An-update-on-the-recent-reward-changes) and this is part of it. We’ve seen a lot of feedback that it sucks to get 4 blues when buying the big box and we agree. I think ensuring an Epic on those T4 Lock Boxes will be a big step toward that goal.

We’ll also be introducing lock boxes that only drop weapons or only drop shields. This comes from player feedback that some people are trying to get just a weapon or just a shield and they’d like to be able to focus their purchases on those.
All of these changes will be welcomed with open arms. In fact I think you nailed it, if these changes come to pass. :D



For the weapons, defining undesirable is tricky since it’s very subjective, but there was a great thread (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?171286-Undesirable-Weapon-research) on these forums that helped pinpoint weapons that most of you feel are currently undesirable. I plan to retune those weapons so they are more desirable in the future, but that’s going to take some time. In the meantime, we’ll be removing them from the T2, T3, and T4 lock boxes. The affected weapons are:

VOT Mazu Blast Rifle
VOT Bolter
VOT Meteor Bolter
VOT Blast Rifle
VOT Rebounder Cannon
VOT Fragger
VOT Swarm Cannon
VOT Auto Fragger
VOT Outbreaker
VOT Breaker Cannon
VOT Infector
VOT Longshot Cannon
VOT Afflictor
VBI SMG
VBI INF-27 Immunizer
VBI AR1 Armada
VBI Short-Barrel Shotgun
VBI Auto-Shotgun
VBI Guided Launcher
VBI LM-43 Thunder
VBI LM-12 Rocker
VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle
VBI Shotgun
FRC Birdshot Pump
FRC Magnum
FRC Sub-Carbine
FRC Particle Repeater
FRC Northstar Flare
FRC Nomad SMG
FRC Rocket Pod
FRC Sawed-off Scattergun
FRC Innoculator
FRC Incubator
FRC Interceptor
VOT Auto Lobber
VOT Rebound Lobber
FRC Crash Boomer
FRC Matchlock Boomer

All guns in RED are some of my Favorites for PVE. It seems who ever made the thread of undesirable guns, obviously only plays PVP(which is completely broken(PVP needs to be class based with pre selected weapons. IMO.)) and/or was a big seller of the more deemed expensive guns on the forums.


Feel free to chime in if I’m yanking your favorite gun or if there’s some abomination you feel should be on the list. I’m erring on the side of caution here, so unlikely to remove something that’s controversial, but I’m happy to get the feedback and take a look.
Still interested in still seeing some change in some of the weapons mentioned above.


If you read this far, thanks for your time! That’s a lot to digest at once. I’m in the process of making these changes now and they’ll be hitting PTS as fast as I can get them done. Keep an eye on the PTS patch notes so you’ll have the opportunity to come try them out and let us know what you think before they go live.

Looking forward to getting to know you all better,
Travis “Rashere” McGeathy

It was very nice to read about you and the changes you wish to implement. I look forward to this and thanks for letting us know. I hope you enjoy our game and your time with Trion.

Nefarious
08-22-2014, 04:40 PM
For the weapons, defining undesirable is tricky since it’s very subjective, but there was a great thread (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?171286-Undesirable-Weapon-research) on these forums that helped pinpoint weapons that most of you feel are currently undesirable. I plan to retune those weapons so they are more desirable in the future, but that’s going to take some time. In the meantime, we’ll be removing them from the T2, T3, and T4 lock boxes. The affected weapons are:

VOT Mazu Blast Rifle
VOT Bolter
VOT Meteor Bolter
VOT Blast Rifle
VOT Rebounder Cannon
VOT Fragger
VOT Swarm Cannon
VOT Auto Fragger
VOT Outbreaker
VOT Breaker Cannon
VOT Infector
VOT Longshot Cannon
VOT Afflictor
VBI SMG
VBI INF-27 Immunizer
VBI AR1 Armada
VBI Short-Barrel Shotgun
VBI Auto-Shotgun
VBI Guided Launcher
VBI LM-43 Thunder
VBI LM-12 Rocker
VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle
VBI Shotgun
FRC Birdshot Pump
FRC Magnum
FRC Sub-Carbine
FRC Particle Repeater
FRC Northstar Flare
FRC Nomad SMG
FRC Rocket Pod
FRC Sawed-off Scattergun
FRC Innoculator
FRC Incubator
FRC Interceptor
VOT Auto Lobber
VOT Rebound Lobber
FRC Crash Boomer
FRC Matchlock Boomer


The hell is this?
https://images.encyclopediadramatica.es/b/b8/Jags_fan.gif

What gun is not on this list that had been deemed undesirable? Big Boomer? Surge Bolter? Its like a list of whatever is not on here are the over powered ones lol. Not really, but kinda.

Anyway as a avid player who has been playing since launch this is my thoughts on this list of deemed undesirables and why some are bogus and should not be on this list.

-To see something like the Longshot Cannon on the list is crazy. Its the best Rocket Launcher variant in the game. Its just as strong as the other Rockets along with the same blast radius and reload time but with way more faster projectile speed. It has everything the others have and then more.

-The Guided Rocket has the benefit of locking on. Its not the strongest Launcher but it does have the highest min DMG. Is that not good enough? Between this and the Longshot are players basing the results on Rockets without using the explosive perks as they should be? Because with the Explosives perks these things wreck nearly everything thats not higher then Threat Level 7.

-The Immunizer has double the range then all other Infectors, that's its benefit. That's what makes it stand out and what it does better then the rest. Does it really need to do more?

-The Blast Rifle is more then fine. Anything more then what it is now would be to strong for PvP, I know because I use it extensively in PvP. I wrote a whole thing about it on how I use it and why its so good. If it was giving any less recoil or made stronger it would shred players way better then what it already does. And making it more accurate and tightening its spread would nerf it since its wide spread is its main benefit to be able to hit targets/players easier.

-The VBI Auto Shotgun is on here but not the EMC/Tacc Auto Shotgun? When ppl were voting on crappy guns in that thread did they get confused between these 2 because it should be the EMC on here and not the VBI.

-The Thunder is on this list? Are ppl trying to pull the wool over the Devs eyes in hopes to make some guns more powerful so they end up being over powered? The Thunder is probably one of the best guns to earn points with from events because of its continuous fire it can lay down. I know because I use it. I wouldn't use it if I wasn't killing things and getting in first with it. Not to mention you can just stream shots with little to no recoil into enemy crit spots. You can lay down very heavy DMG numbers with it.

-Funny how players deemed the VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle undesirable and also not the Quick Repeater or Auto Bolter considering all 3 have the same exact base stats. They're the same thing.

-The Vot Fragger? Really? Its one of the more equipped shotguns that players use. And for a reason. Good power. Fires as a 2 piece. Reloads in 2s instead of 1s like other pump actions. And fires accurate with good distance, little recoil, and solid pellet density.

-The Particle Repeater is undesirable? I guess players don't know that it can score over 40k dmg body shots and over 100kdmg head/crit shots on full charge... Then again any semi auto sniper not named Surge Bolter could be considered undesirable. But that just shows how out of whack SB is when considering this.

-And the Vot Breaker Cannon? Its made primarily for destroying vehicles. What PvE enemies count as 'vehicles' no one knows. Maybe if players did then it wouldn't be so quick to toss away.

Everything else could be tweaked a little bit better. But the ones I pulled and listed I think are fine as is because of said reasons.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now with that aside this is what I personally think needs to be fixed. And no I didn't write this all in one sitting. The bottom half here is all from various threads and posts I have wrote about weapon balance. I took them all and edited them together.

I really went over the weapons with a fine tooth comb. Some weapons are close to being alike but have enough of a difference to be waved imo. Like the EMC Sniper Rifle & FRC Bolt Action Repeater, the EMC has 2 less base shots to mag but a faster reload while the FRC has 2 more shots to base mag with a slightly slower reload. Vot Bolter has more shots in its base mag while the Metor Bolter has 5 less to its base mag but also knocks back enemies with its shots to make up for having less shots. Could the Vot Bolter be giving more to its base mag to be able to rival its counter part when advertising itself as a other or better choice? Probably but its not that huge of a deal. Then there's the Rebound and Auto Lobber's and how they are the same but different enough to be ok as well because they operate differently. Maybe the Rebound Lobber could benefit with having more shots to its base mag since it is so erratic. But then again not that big of a deal imo.

Anyway here are the problematic weapons whether they be to strong or to weak.

•Infector Grenades, the bugs from them should have a shorter life span..imo.

•VOT Longshot Cannon benefits from having faster projectile travel speed, because of that it should yield less blast radius to make up for it imo. Its a better version of a the FRC Rocket Pod having the same stats but with faster rockets, needs a give and take.

•Heavy Sawed Off Shotguns *The ones that shoot slug rounds*. Should benefit from having a high chance of a knock down effect (knock down effect that the Bull Rush has, be cool if another weapon had this ability) or giving a higher base critical multiplier. They are single shot weapons that are not particular strong and need pin point accuracy to hit without being so accurate in the first place.

•Better balance for Infectors. It comes down to the Canker and Invader and the rest suck in comparison to these 2. Canker needs a slower rate of fire. The Canker is on top of the pyramid in the Infector class. Invader is fine and so is the Immunizer. We have an idea what the rest of the Infectors are supposed to do, its just that they are not good at what they are supposed to do, they need to be tweaked to be better.

•Detonators are good as is. Its that it really just comes down to the Big Boomer. It outclasses every other Detonator and a lot of other weapon types in way to many scenarios. Its one of the strongest weapons along with having a unrivaled blast radius. Nothing comes close to it. Considering it has the biggest blast radius in the game it should be a lot weaker. It needs a give and take.

•Would be cool if FRC Interceptor Rocket Launcher had a bigger blast radius then it does now to make up for its long timed delay of its shots exploding. Its a FRC Rocket Pod that shoots rockets that don't explode on impact. Its needs something a little extra because of that.

•The Armada Rocket Launcher should be stronger then what it is. When you pull the trigger to fire it you are committed of firing 3 shots in a row. You cant really be mobile when doing this. Shooting the Armada hinders mobility and because of so its better to use single shot Launchers that have better control and are just as strong then choose to use a Armada. The Armada's physical model is the biggest Rocket Launcher in the game, its a siege like weapon that commits to 3 shots..it should be stronger.

•The Rebound Cannon's cluster upon detention could be a bit more tighter for a chance to make more out of its weak shots.

•The FRC Magnum needs a bit of a rate of fire boost, something to give it a tempo. And for it not to be taking out of scope with every shot.

•The FRC Nomad SMG could use a bigger base magazine considering how very weak it is. 80 mag? Crank that up to 120. (BTW make it so it shoots bullets and not blue VOT Lasers)

•Maybe tweak the charge times some more for the FRC Particle Repeater and Surge Bolter. They are very very strong on full charge.

•Better separation between the Quick Repeater, Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle, and Auto Bolter. They all have the same exact base stats except that the Quick Repeater has a base bloom of 1.70 while the Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle and Auto Bolter have a 4.0. There is nothing separating them, they're the same. (BTW make its so that the VOT Auto Bolter shoots blue VOT Lasers instead of bullets.)

•The Lightning Rifle gets into these hiccups where it doesn't register its shots. Sometimes shots hit enemies and do nothing or the shots go straight threw them. Other then that the Lightning Rifle is ****ing awesome when it works properly. But its shots feel like RNG.

•Fix the Zagger and fix weapon rolls so that 0.0 reload times don't happen on sawed off shotguns in general.

•And this is what the set rolls for Blast Fragger should have been.

x0.95 Reload
x1.15 Melee DMG
x1.05 Damage
25% of clip reloaded on melee kill
x1.10 Damage
Now that's something worthy of being called a BLAST Fragger

Big Jack Shepard
08-22-2014, 04:45 PM
Most of the community usually disagrees with Nefarious' walls of text.

Just sayin.

CharlieT
08-22-2014, 04:51 PM
If they don't do this very carefully then they will end up with more Surge Bolter mistakes. Meaning, they will waste resources on the initial tweaking and then even more resources on the fixing of those tweaks later. That should be avoided at all costs.

Menov
08-22-2014, 04:58 PM
The hell is this?
https://images.encyclopediadramatica.es/b/b8/Jags_fan.gif

What gun is not on this list that had been deemed undesirable? Big Boomer? Surge Bolter? Its like a list of whatever is not on here are the over powered ones lol. Not really, but kinda.

Anyway as a avid player who has been playing since launch this is my thoughts on this list of deemed undesirables and why some are bogus and should not be on this list.

-To see something like the Longshot Cannon on the list is crazy. Its the best Rocket Launcher variant in the game. Its just as strong as the other Rockets along with the same blast radius and reload time but with way more faster projectile speed. It has everything the others have and then more.

-The Guided Rocket has the benefit of locking on. Its not the strongest Launcher but it does have the highest min DMG. Is that not good enough? Between this and the Longshot are players basing the results on Rockets without using the explosive perks as they should be? Because with the Explosives perks these things wreck nearly everything thats not higher then Threat Level 7.

-The Immunizer has double the range then all other Infectors, that's its benefit. That's what makes it stand out and what it does better then the rest. Does it really need to do more?

-The Blast Rifle is more then fine. Anything more then what it is now would be to strong for PvP, I know because I use it extensively in PvP. I wrote a whole thing about it on how I use it and why its so good. If it was giving any less recoil or made stronger it would shred players way better then what it already does. And making it more accurate and tightening its spread would nerf it since its wide spread is its main benefit to be able to hit targets/players easier.

-The VBI Auto Shotgun is on here but not the EMC Auto Shotgun? When ppl were voting on crappy guns in that thread did they get confused between these 2 because it should be the EMC on here and not the VBI.

-The Thunder is on this list? Are ppl trying to pull the wool over the Devs eyes in hopes to make some guns more powerful so they end up being over powered? The Thunder is probably one of the best guns to earn points with from events because of its continuous fire it can lay down. I know because I use it. I wouldn't use it if I wasn't killing things and getting in first with it. Not to mention you can just stream shots with little to no recoil into enemy crit spots. You can lay down very heavy DMG numbers with it.

-Funny how players deemed the VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle undesirable and also not the Quick Repeater or Auto Bolter considering all 3 have the same exact base stats. They're the same thing.

-The Vot Fragger? Really? Its one of the more equipped shotguns that players use. And for a reason. Good power. Fires as a 2 piece. Reloads in 2s instead of 1s like other pump actions. And fires accurate with good distance, little recoil, and solid pellet density.

-The Particle Repeater is undesirable? I guess players don't know that it can score over 40k dmg body shots and over 100kdmg head/crit shots on full charge... Then again any semi auto sniper not named Surge Bolter could be considered undesirable. But that just shows how out of whack SB is when considering this.

-And the Vot Breaker Cannon? Its made primarily for destroying vehicles. What PvE enemies count as 'vehicles' no one knows. Maybe if players did then it wouldn't be so quick to toss away.

Everything else could be tweaked a little bit better. But the ones I pulled and listed I think are fine as is because of said reasons.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now with that aside this is what I personally think needs to be fixed. And no I didn't write this all in one sitting. The bottom half here is all from various threads and posts I have wrote about weapon balance. I took them all and edited them together.

I really went over the weapons with a fine tooth comb. Some weapons are close to being alike but have enough of a difference to be waved imo. Like the EMC Sniper Rifle & FRC Bolt Action Repeater, the EMC has 2 less base shots to mag but a faster reload while the FRC has 2 more to shot to base mag with a slightly slower reload. Vot Bolter has more shots in its base mag while the Metor Bolter has 5 less to its base mag but also knocks back enemies with its shots to make up for having less shots. Could the Vot Bolter be giving more to its base mag to be able to rival its counter part when advertising itself as a other or better choice? Probably but its not that huge of a deal. Then there's the Rebound and Auto Lobber's and how they are the same but different enough to be ok as well because they operate differently. Maybe the Rebound Lobber could benefit with having more shots to its base mag since it is so erratic. But then again not that big of a deal imo.

Anyway here are the problematic weapons whether they be to strong or to weak.

•Infector Grenades, the bugs from them should have a shorter life span..imo.

•VOT Longshot Cannon benefits from having faster projectile travel speed, because of that it should yield less blast radius to make up for it imo. Its a better version of a the FRC Rocket Pod having the same stats but with faster rockets, needs a give and take.

•Heavy Sawed Off Shotguns *The ones that shoot slug rounds*. Should benefit from having a high chance of a knock down effect (knock down effect that the Bull Rush has, be cool if another weapon had this ability) or giving a higher base critical multiplier. They are single shot weapons that are not particular strong and need pin point accuracy to hit without being so accurate in the first place.

•Better balance for Infectors. It comes down to the Canker and Invader and the rest suck in comparison to these 2. Canker needs a slower rate of fire. The Canker is on top of the pyramid in the Infector class. Invader is fine and so is the Immunizer. We have an idea what the rest of the Infectors are supposed to do, its just that they are not good at what they are supposed to do, they need to be tweaked to be better.

•Detonators as is are good. Its just that it really just comes down to the Big Boomer. It outclasses every other Detonator and a lot of other weapon types in way to many scenarios. Its one of the strongest weapons along with having a unrivaled blast radius. Nothing comes close to it. Considering it has the biggest blast radius in the game it should be a lot weaker. It needs a give and take.

•Would be cool if FRC Interceptor Rocket Launcher had a bigger blast radius then it does now to make up for it long timed delay of its shots exploding. Its a FRC Rocket Pod that shoots rockets that don't explode on impact. Its needs something a little extra because of that.

•The Armada Rocket Launcher should be stronger then what it is. When you pull the trigger to fire it you are committed of firing 3 shots in a row. You cant really be mobile when doing this. Shooting the Armada hinders mobility and because of so its better to use single shot Launchers that have better control and are just as strong then choose to use a Armada. The Armada's physical model is the biggest Rocket Launcher in the game, its a siege like weapon that commits to 3 shots..it should be stronger.

•The Rebound Cannon's cluster upon detention could be a bit more tighter for a chance to make more out of its weak shots.

•The FRC Magnum needs a bit of a rate of fire boost, something to give it a tempo. And for it not to be taking out of scope with every shot.

•The FRC Nomad SMG could use a bigger base magazine considering how very weak it is. 80 mag? Crank that up to 120. (BTW make it so it shoots bullets and not blue VOT Lasers)

•Maybe tweak the charge times some more for the FRC Particle Repeater and Surge Bolter. They are very very strong on full charge.

•Better separation between the Quick Repeater, Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle, and Auto Bolter. They all have the same exact base stats except that the Quick Repeater has a base bloom of 1.70 while the Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle and Auto Bolter have a 4.0. There is nothing separating them, they're the same. (BTW make its so that the VOT Auto Bolter shoots blue VOT Lasers instead of bullets.)

•The Lightning Rifle gets into the hiccups were it doesn't register its shots. Sometimes shots hit enemies and do nothing or the shots go straight threw them. Other then that the Lightning Rifle is ****ing awesome when it works properly. But its shots feel like RNG.

•Fix the Zagger and fix weapon rolls so that 0.0 reload times don't happen on sawed off shotguns in general.

•And this is what the set rolls for Blast Fragger should have been.

x0.95 Reload
x1.15 Melee DMG
x1.05 Damage
25% of clip reloaded on melee kill
x1.10 Damage
Now that's something worthy of being called a BLAST Fragger

Very constructive post, agree with most of it,

geekzilla
08-22-2014, 04:59 PM
Welcome.. and thank you for your initiative on these matters.
I like the route you are heading with this and the fact you took
the time to give us some detailed feedback into your endeavor.

That being said.. please do not pull The Vot Mazu Blast Rifle.
Is one of my favorite weapons. Easily in my top 2 assualt rifles.

I agree - I really like the Vot Mazu Blast Rifle and hope it's not pulled.

Also, Welcome Rashere! Thanks!

Nefarious
08-22-2014, 05:03 PM
Very constructive post, agree with most of it,

Thank you.

And before anyone cries 'Nerfarious' there is only 4 nerfs that I pointed out and nothing burying a weapon either. Everything else is buffs towards things and well needed ones to.

And idk about the Birdshot or VBI/EMC SMG. Someone else can figure those 2 out.

Etaew
08-22-2014, 05:05 PM
To help people visualise the proposed weapons removed, and to see tooltips of them you can check out this article on DD.

http://www.defiancedata.com/page.php?id=330

WanWhiteWolf
08-22-2014, 05:12 PM
Welcome !

Changes look awesome.

Although encryption is painful, most "objective" people would agree it is a good mechanic. As for the items, you won't find a list that is good for all. Everyone has its tastes. I would suggest buffing slightly the weapons that few / nobody one uses. Adding 10-15 % dmg to a junk can make many people at least curious "Hmmm...I add X mod here and Y mod here ...it might actually work. Ok, let's look some mods".

Keys prices even halfed would be expensive but some poeple might consider buying some. Now the ones with 5 mil scrip and 6 mil arksalvage are not paying for the keys. Easier to do a major arkfall then paying 50k Scrip and 100k ark salvage. At half prices there would be still expensive but reachable.

If you need help with testing/experimenting drop us a note. I am sure that many around here are more than willing to contribute.

Any hint when the changes might become available?

PhantasieTrion
08-22-2014, 05:19 PM
R.A. Salvatore is one of my favorite authors, I so want a game in the Drizzt universe.

Agreed! I still have all the original, well worn, Icewind Dale, Dark Elf, etc books that, back in highschool, solidified my love for RPG's. I still read them every few months. Maybe thats what I'll do tonight. (And maybe I'll have to hit up Rashere to see if he can get them autographed for me....)

And - to make this post relevant and not fanboyish - a good chunk of Rashere's changes are now live on PTS. You can see the specifics here (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?172419-Upcoming-Changes-on-PTS&p=1604025&viewfull=1#post1604025). Please go check them out!

Smiit
08-22-2014, 05:26 PM
Finally a dev responds to the important issues without sounding like a **** lol. Thanks Rashere! Nice to meet you

Lucent
08-22-2014, 05:27 PM
THANK YOU. This is an amazing thread.

Really, so many good idea!! There it is! Now you must follow through so we are not built up and then weep in the corner quietly.

That said, these are some of my favorite weapons so please do not destroy them... really.


VOT Bolter
FRC Northstar Flare
VBI Auto-Shotgun


I know most people hate it, but I love using the Bolter... it is my favorite sniper even if people think it is bad. I can't even explain why but... I do! Custom Headshot Bolter, VOT Bolter, Votan Bolter... don't ruin them!!! I feel Bolters felt unique and are the only Bolt Action I like to use.

And I ADORE the Northstar Flare. It is perfect!! I don't care what anyone says... getting one of those weapons, putting a +Mag mod on it... it's so spicy and wonderful, especially if it has a nano. Mmmm, an electric or bio Northstar Flare. So delicious. In my opinion. So leave my babies alone, please!!!

I also just like Combat Shotguns and aside from the Clustershot, that's my other favorite variant so don't touch that either!!

Your list seems waaaaay too long. Like the Inoculator & Incubator are unique and fun to use even if they are not "ideal".

There is a really fun variety of guns in Defiance, even if some of them are "sucky". I used to master every weapon I got just to play around so please listen when we say, yeah, it's disappointing to get a Birdshot Pump but that IS part of the "thrill of the chase" so to speak. I've mastered 4 or 5 Birdshots (even with my skill at 20) despite hating them just because!

Big Jack Shepard
08-22-2014, 05:33 PM
THANK YOU. This is an amazing thread.

Really, so many good idea!! There it is! Now you must follow through so we are not built up and then weep in the corner quietly.

That said, these are some of my favorite weapons so please do not destroy them... really.


I know most people hate it, but I love using the Bolter... it is my favorite sniper even if people think it is bad. I can't even explain why but... I do! Custom Headshot Bolter, VOT Bolter, Votan Bolter... don't ruin them!!! I feel Bolters felt unique and are the only Bolt Action I like to use.

And I ADORE the Northstar Flare. It is perfect!! I don't care what anyone says... getting one of those weapons, putting a +Mag mod on it... it's so spicy and wonderful, especially if it has a nano. Mmmm, an electric or bio Northstar Flare. So delicious. In my opinion. So leave my babies alone, please!!!

Hey Rashere, this woman has a catchy tune you should listen to: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?172050-Is-this-the-first-song-written-for-Defiance

Alastar
08-22-2014, 05:33 PM
THANK YOU. This is an amazing thread.

Really, so many good idea!! There it is! Now you must follow through so we are not built up and then weep in the corner quietly.

That said, these are some of my favorite weapons so please do not destroy them... really.


I know most people hate it, but I love using the Bolter... it is my favorite sniper even if people think it is bad. I can't even explain why but... I do! Custom Headshot Bolter, VOT Bolter, Votan Bolter... don't ruin them!!! I feel Bolters felt unique and are the only Bolt Action I like to use.

And I ADORE the Northstar Flare. It is perfect!! I don't care what anyone says... getting one of those weapons, putting a +Mag mod on it... it's so spicy and wonderful, especially if it has a nano. Mmmm, an electric or bio Northstar Flare. So delicious. In my opinion. So leave my babies alone, please!!!

I also just like Combat Shotguns and aside from the Clustershot, that's my other favorite variant so don't touch that either!!

Your list seems waaaaay too long. Like the Inoculator & Incubator are unique and fun to use even if they are not "ideal".

There is a really fun variety of guns in Defiance, even if some of them are "sucky". I used to master every weapon I got just to play around so please listen when we say, yeah, it's disappointing to get a Birdshot Pump but that IS part of the "thrill of the chase" so to speak. I've mastered 4 or 5 Birdshots (even with my skill at 20) despite hating them just because!

You're shooting yourself in the foot here. He's looking at reverse nerfing those guns lol shhhhhhhhh. :p

Lucent
08-22-2014, 05:44 PM
Maybe up the DMG on the VBI Auto-Shotgun... but the Bolter is fab and so is the Northstar. I don't see them needing a buff. To me, they are very delightful!

Holy Bahamut3
08-22-2014, 06:21 PM
Maybe up the DMG on the VBI Auto-Shotgun... but the Bolter is fab and so is the Northstar. I don't see them needing a buff. To me, they are very delightful!

The bolter heck all bolt actions for that matter need a damage buff, the trade off used to be that bolt actions cycled between shots, but generally did tremendous damage/ crit damage and would be one shot kills if used skillfully. Since patch 1.5 they have been completely out classed by their counterparts due to threat scaling. It is the general consensus that if you liked the bolt actions, then use a charge semi auto like the surge bolter or particle repeater. The fix for bolt actions should be easy by upping the damage/ crit damage to one shot kills regardless of TL. The northstar flare should have its reload and fire rate buffed since it only has one shot to start.

Unique One
08-22-2014, 06:48 PM
In celebration of some common sense returning to the game (even with today's unplayable lag), I just purchased the remaining 3 DLCs and some BITS.

This is what happens when you are open with the community and present things as they really are instead of the old trion misinformation campaign.

I hope the others there at trion read this and see how it should be done.

Nefarious
08-22-2014, 06:50 PM
The bolter heck all bolt actions for that matter need a damage buff, the trade off used to be that bolt actions cycled between shots, but generally did tremendous damage/ crit damage and would be one shot kills if used skillfully. Since patch 1.5 they have been completely out classed by their counterparts due to threat scaling. It is the general consensus that if you liked the bolt actions, then use a charge semi auto like the surge bolter or particle repeater. The fix for bolt actions should be easy by upping the damage/ crit damage to one shot kills regardless of TL. The northstar flare should have its reload and fire rate buffed since it only has one shot to start.

The only thing Bolt Actions are getting out classed from are the Charge Snipers. So should the Charge Snipers stay as is and have Bolt Actions meet their demand? Or should Charge Snipers take longer to charge to make up for being so damn strong?

In PvE I have no problem with 1 shotting enemies with bolt actions with Cloak, Shadow Strike, Hunter Stance, Ambush, Height Advantage. And even in full combat with Nerves of Steel to stand in for Ambush as PvE enemies run right towards you. And that's only a 5 perks out of 9.

And as for PvP Bolt Actions do the job pretty good. But they cant stand out because its either choose fast Semi Auto Quick Repeaters or Charge Snipers/Surge Bolter. If Charge Snipers slowed up a bit then that would allow Bolt Actions then be a more viable as being the middle choice as they should be.

So ideally it would look like this.

Semi Auto- 'real good speed and a decent amount of power' (as it is now)

Bolt Actions - 'good amount of speed and a good amount of power' (as it is now)

Charge Snipers -'slow speed and real good power'. (as it is should be)

But its all for not in having middle choice while Charge Snipers have 'decent speed and real good power'. Its just enough to the point of only having the opposite ends of the spectrum ever looked to be used to counter one another that leaves Bolt Actions in the middle unused. A lot of weapons are not underpowered, they're good. Its just that the over powered ones make them look worse then what they really are.

Holy Bahamut3
08-22-2014, 07:22 PM
The only thing Bolt Actions are getting out classed from are the Charge Snipers. So should the Charge Snipers stay as is and have Bolt Actions meet their demand? Or should Charge Snipers take longer to charge to make up for being so damn strong?

In PvE I have no problem with 1 shotting enemies with bolt actions with Cloak, Shadow Strike, Hunter Stance, Ambush, Height Advantage. And even in full combat with Nerves of Steel to stand in for Ambush as PvE enemies run right towards you. And that's only a 5 perks out of 9.

And as for PvP Bolt Actions do the job pretty good. But they cant stand out because its either choose fast Semi Auto Quick Repeaters or Charge Snipers/Surge Bolter. If Charge Snipers slowed up a bit then that would allow Bolt Actions then be a more viable as being the middle choice as they should be.

So ideally it would look like this.

Semi Auto- 'real good speed and a decent amount of power' (as it is now)

Bolt Actions - 'good amount of speed and a good amount of power' (as it is now)

Charge Snipers -'slow speed and real good power'. (as it is should be)

But its all for not in having middle choice while Charge Snipers have 'decent speed and real good power'. Its just enough to the point of only having the opposite ends of the spectrum ever looked to be used to counter one another that leaves Bolt Actions in the middle unused. A lot of weapons are not underpowered, they're good. Its just that the over powered ones make them look worse then what they really are.

Sorry Nef, but I don't agree.

I'm sure most of us don't want to see any additional nerfs to the gear we like. As we all know they tend to be heavy handed with them anyway. I believe the purpose of this thread is to make suggestions on how to make disliked gear more appealing, not to make sought after gear less appealing.

Nefarious
08-22-2014, 07:35 PM
Sorry Nef, but I don't agree.

I'm sure most of us don't want to see any additional nerfs to the gear we like. As we all know they tend to be heavy handed with them anyway. I believe the purpose of this thread is to make suggestions on how to make disliked gear more appealing, not to make sought after gear less appealing.

Ok then. By all means let Bolt Actions one shot crit kill anything regardless of threat level as you proposed... That would work out good.

Or you know balance the over powered stuff so the already good stuff as is can stand out to be actually used.

Eugenitor
08-22-2014, 07:40 PM
Bolt actions are kind of in a bad place. If they were upgraded to be one-hit bodyshot kills on players in PVP, they'd be ridiculous and turn the game into UT2004 instagib. Since they're not, they're next to worthless compared to the quick repeater (which, if properly rolled and modded, is also a one-hit headshot kill).

Some of the charge weapons simply charge too fast, just like some of the SMGs fire too fast.

Holy Bahamut3
08-22-2014, 07:48 PM
Bolt actions are kind of in a bad place. If they were upgraded to be one-hit bodyshot kills on players in PVP, they'd be ridiculous and turn the game into UT2004 instagib. Since they're not, they're next to worthless compared to the quick repeater (which, if properly rolled and modded, is also a one-hit headshot kill).

Some of the charge weapons simply charge too fast, just like some of the SMGs fire too fast.

Body shots would be too powerful, one shot crits is more along my line of reasoning.

Eugenitor
08-22-2014, 07:50 PM
Body shots would be too powerful, one shot crits is more along my line of reasoning.

But that's what I meant with the quick repeaters. My current fast-firing gun almost always kills on a headshot. Why would I switch to a slower one?

Holy Bahamut3
08-22-2014, 07:58 PM
Good point, I'll have to think on that.


After thinking about it, they could up the damage to one shot kill if they lowered the fire rate a hair. Id use one against Viscera for sure.

Random_Numbers
08-22-2014, 08:06 PM
I'm glad to see a response from the dev team with positive player changes. The round of nerfs was pretty brutal. On a saide note.

Err ... Help me out here guys ... the Vot Blast Rifle and the Vot Flash rifle have amazing poor DPS ... the MAZU verison of these seems to be fine. I saw someone say something about them being fine. Not even close ... Mazu at 5000 ego is 1500 dmg @ 15.0 RoF ... the Blast rifle is 500 dmg @ 15.0 RoF ... How can that even be close to be fine?

Menov
08-22-2014, 08:27 PM
Agreed! I still have all the original, well worn, Icewind Dale, Dark Elf, etc books that, back in highschool, solidified my love for RPG's. I still read them every few months. Maybe thats what I'll do tonight. (And maybe I'll have to hit up Rashere to see if he can get them autographed for me....)


Now I'm jealous. :p You guys should think of a game in that series of books. Fellow DeFi players if you haven't read these books mentioned, you should.

Crack
08-22-2014, 08:31 PM
I agree with the ones that are saying the list is too long. Id rather see most of the list get a buff rather than removal. Case and point the VOT Mazu...before the introduction of the threat levels, the Mazu was a close 2nd to the VBI AR. After patch, the DPS turned it into a useless weapon at increased threat. Add some DPS and reduce the reload speed and it will become a great alt. to the VBI. I have always loved the Nomads and have about 30 of them...but again, low DPS at increased threat levels and the gun is barely better than a spanner. lol

Speaking of the Nomad...I noticed that the damages numbers from enemy hits are FAR less than what the card DMG says it should be.

Crack
08-22-2014, 08:41 PM
I'm glad to see a response from the dev team with positive player changes. The round of nerfs was pretty brutal. On a saide note.

Err ... Help me out here guys ... the Vot Blast Rifle and the Vot Flash rifle have amazing poor DPS ... the MAZU verison of these seems to be fine. I saw someone say something about them being fine. Not even close ... Mazu at 5000 ego is 1500 dmg @ 15.0 RoF ... the Blast rifle is 500 dmg @ 15.0 RoF ... How can that even be close to be fine?

The VOT Blast Rifle should have a multiplier listed on the card because each bullet is a x3 mult meaning 3 hits per a single shot fired. So the card SHOULD say 500(x3). Same goes for the Disruptor and possibly a few others as well. BUT still lacking DPS ragardless...

BarGod
08-22-2014, 09:50 PM
Welcome, looking forward to it

Alastar
08-22-2014, 11:36 PM
I agree with the ones that are saying the list is too long. Id rather see most of the list get a buff rather than removal. Case and point the VOT Mazu...before the introduction of the threat levels, the Mazu was a close 2nd to the VBI AR. After patch, the DPS turned it into a useless weapon at increased threat. Add some DPS and reduce the reload speed and it will become a great alt. to the VBI. I have always loved the Nomads and have about 30 of them...but again, low DPS at increased threat levels and the gun is barely better than a spanner. lol

Speaking of the Nomad...I noticed that the damages numbers from enemy hits are FAR less than what the card DMG says it should be.

They ARE getting a buff supposedly. The removal from lockboxes is a temporary measure until they have been brought more in line with more popular weapons.

drackiller
08-23-2014, 12:31 AM
I just want to say Welcome to this forum and i will not give an opinion about weapons because i know that when you "fix" things, strange things happens afterwards.

But welcome, welcome.

superstorm
08-23-2014, 01:44 AM
I am glad Bolter, Guided Launcher, Autofragger and Autoshotgun will be retuned up as I so like them.

maverick07
08-23-2014, 02:19 AM
The VOT Blast Rifle should have a multiplier listed on the card because each bullet is a x3 mult meaning 3 hits per a single shot fired. So the card SHOULD say 500(x3). Same goes for the Disruptor and possibly a few others as well. BUT still lacking DPS ragardless...

Yeah, gotta agree, that should be on the card. It's been causing confusion as long as I can remember as people do not realize it shoots three bullets for the price of one.

It does need a buff. Though I do not think it should be on the DPS level of others in its category like FRC and VBIs. Still could use a DMG and reload boost. Maybe slight recoil adjustment too.

Murzin
08-23-2014, 03:32 AM
VOT Meteor Bolter
VOT Rebounder Cannon
VOT Swarm Cannon
VBI SMG
VBI LM-43 Thunder
FRC Sub-Carbine
FRC Northstar Flare


im not sure you understand why people like these guns.

1) fast firing sniper rifle. assassin + crit rolls = awesomeness

2) for those cannons, they are there for a reason. 1 of them has a high dmg bouncy grenades, and there is a 2nd one with much lower damage. the point of the lower damage one is that its damage bypasses armor doing the full damage per explosion. these weapons are HIGHLY desireable, especially for monsters like the monarchs, grouped up hellbugs.

3) the vbi smg is actually really effective.

4) the thunder... the whole point of that gun is for sustained fire. sure the 7th legion yamato is preferred for the larger mag, but when you are fighting something like a hulker or moderate to major arkfall boss... being able to just hold the fire button down and STAY ACCURATE is extremely HUGE! i am still looking for a double crit assassin one.

5) the sub-carbine is good SMG as well. all the 15 ROF SMGs are good. its the Nomads that really suck.

6) the north stare flare? seriously? this gun is very over-powered. i have a double crit assassin bio that i use ALL THE TIME. they ROCK! i am always looking out for a double crit assassin one. people who dont like/use these just blow my mind. VERY under-estimated gun. before the scoreboard changes i would take the #1 spot on monolith kills for scoring even when i didnt get killing blow.

Mr666
08-23-2014, 07:28 AM
I don't think these guns need removed , VBI Guided Launcher, VBI SMG, VOT Fragger the launcher may need a little more damage but that's it.

Please fix my FRC Innoculator I loved it once but now its the worst infector out there

Varaelian
08-23-2014, 08:13 AM
Good stuff... regarding Arkforge: has anyone other than me thought it would be great to have a way to convert our excess vehicles into Arkforge? i.e. sell/trade to vendor $10,000 value vehicle for maybe about 1,000 Arkforge, etc.; or maybe ability to breakdown vehicle into Arkforge? The reason I suggest vehicles is that I have so many, whether earned or bought, so if I have two or more ATV's it would be nice to get rid of the excess and get back Arkforge for my trouble. Well, just a thought.

Vega
08-23-2014, 09:31 AM
          

Xervez
08-23-2014, 09:43 AM
Pistols - Pistols overall need to be looked at.
FRC Magnum
FRC Northstar Flare

BMG's

Assault Rifles
VOT Mazu Blast Rifle
VOT Blast Rifle - weapon not needed
FRC Assault Carbine - weapon not needed

Combat Shotguns
VOT Auto Fragger
VOT Surge Nano-Fragger
VBI Auto-Shotgun - standard overall for the combat shotguns
VBI TACC-Shotgun - weapon not needed
VBI PAS-24 Tornado
FRC Auto-Scattergun - weapon not needed
FRC Berzerker Shotgun
FRC Particle Scattergun

Bolt Action Sniper Rifles
VOT Bolter- Debatable
VOT Meteor Bolter - main mechanic of the weapon doesn't knockdown players - weapon not needed
VBI Derailer - weapon not needed until you fix shield / health of vehicles

Detonators - adjust the big boomer and work you way down from there to make them more viable.
VOT Auto Lobber
VOT Rebound Lobber
FRC Crash Boomer
FRC Matchlock Boomer

Rocket Launchers
VOT Longshot Cannon
VOT Rebounder Cannon
VOT Swarm Cannon
VBI AR1 Armada
FRC Interceptor
FRC Rocket Pod

Infectors
VOT Outbreaker
VOT Afflictor
VOT Infector
VBI INF-27 Immunizer
FRC Innoculator
FRC Incubator

Sub Machine Guns - Put a fire rate limitation on VoT Tachmag Pulsers / Needlers variants to bring more variety back to the SMG's so it's not just on the highest fire rate.
VBI SMG - combines AR aim with terrible hip accuracy... unique but can be adjusted
FRC Nomad SMG - weapon not needed
FRC Sub-Carbine - unique outta of all the SMG's

Light Machine Guns
VBI LM-43 Thunder
VBI LM-12 Rocker

Pump Shotguns
VOT Fragger - probably one of the easier pump shotguns to use, not sure why that's here
VBI Shotgun - weapon is not needed
FRC Birdshot Pump - weapon is not needed
FRC Heavy Scattergun - weapon is not needed

Sawed-off Shotguns
VBI Short-Barrel Shotgun
FRC Sawed-off Scattergun
FRC Heavy Sawed-off Scattergun

Semi-Auto Sniper Rifles Adjustments need to be made to overall Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle damage, give us what we originally asked for which was more carrying ammo for it not more damage.
VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle - weapon is not needed since it compares to the FRC QuickRepeater
FRC Particle Repeater

Guided Rocket Launchers
VOT Breaker Cannon - combine this weapon with the one below to make a new weapon that actually makes sense.
VBI Guided Launcher - could literally combine this weapon with the weapon above ^

broke them down to their corresponding categories so it's easier to understand from Rashere's List, added a few of my own with feedback.

- The main issue with Combat Shotguns / Pump Shotguns / Sawed-off Shotguns is that the Zagger with the 0.0 reload breaks all three shotgun categories. Having a weapon that can fire as fast as a combat shotgun / Pump shotgun and have the high end damage breaks all consistency of all three shotgun categories.

- Fix the Zagger and all shotguns from getting a 0.0 reload with a reload limitation and you'll fix a good chunk of the shotgun issues.

- When you fix the Zagger then you can clearly define what each shotgun category is supposed to entail...

for ex. - There has to be a pro / con for each weapon / category and if you can't clearly see the pro / con then you got problems.

Combat Shotguns should be the only shotguns with mag expansion rolls since they are clip based weapons.

Pump Shotguns / Sawed Off's shouldn't have mag expansions, if anything put a mag limitation on those shotguns.

more to come...

MrAwe
08-23-2014, 11:49 AM
Thank God...
Finally, some changes to look forward to.

Please implement this on the regular servers ASAP!

Crack
08-23-2014, 12:17 PM
This is an open world team based game MMO (PVE)...Stop listening to the minority PVP player base when it comes to nerfs and whats OP. Give them default weapon classes to choose from and make them unique to PVE. Then when a tweak needs to be made, its not going affect my favorite gear I use in PVE.

Now I know people are going to hate on me for the PVP dis, but come on already...go play a game built for PVP if you're that hard-set on that type of game. Stop trying to change my game to make it a better PVP game for you.

Strohm
08-23-2014, 12:34 PM
Welcome to Defiance Rashere, I hope your stay will be pleasant.

On to the bashing!




Arkforge:
We’ll be reducing the cost associated with increasing the EGO rating of an item.

I’ve been looking at the rate that Arkforge is entering the game after the recent changes relative to the costs associated with upgrading weapons. As some of your feedback has attested to, even if you’re focused on finding Arkforge, you’ll tend to gain EGO faster than you’ll find the Arkforge needed to upgrade your high end items. Since enemy difficulty scales as your EGO increases, this puts you in a rough spot. After this change, assuming you’re seeking out Arkforge drops, you should be able to keep an Epic item levelled with you without too much trouble. Keeping a Legendary upgraded will be more difficult, though not so out of reach as it is currently.

Some of you will ask why reduce the costs instead of increasing the drop rates since the initial change was to lower the drop rates? The answer is largely because of the cost associated with upgrading the rarity of an item. That’s something that should be difficult, especially upgrading from an Epic to a Legendary item, and increasing the drop rates would also affect those upgrade costs.

This will only have a small impact on the problems and really only caters to the F2P people or players that are levelling EGO, the way AF is handled is still just a failed cash cow for Trion.

When you reach 5000+ EGO the game changes to a P2W game, simply because everything that the high EGO players can grind for, is now at a so low droprate chance its pathetic, or they can go to the store and buy 500 AF for 1440 Bits so they can upgrade their loot, or buy lockboxes for 360-450 bits in an attempt to get a good/better weapon or shield, thats the path you are pointing out for them by nerfing droprates of Legendaries and nerfing droprates of AF.

The pathetic bandaid you are implementing only goes to show you are still unwilling to let go of the idea of letting AF being your cash cow, lower the cost on every AF upgrade feature or increase the amount of AFs in the game, if you want players to continue playing.

Hell you could just give 1 AF per minor arkfall that the players was helping with in an incursion or just a flat amount per arkfall end boss of say 7 to 10 AFs to make the game fun to play again.

(And if you really want to make money, scrap the 50 and 100 AF on the Bit store and adjust the price of 500 AF to 6 or 8 euro, now that would make you a ton of cash quickly, I would even start spending money on it then)

On top of that, I see you are now making some adjustments to Proginator and the fat bug Healthpools, you are making them harder to kill, which would have been really nice if you had done so, when asked to, by the community 6 months ago, now its just gonna be more work for less reward, Do you even realize that some people are not levelling up anymore or do you just not care about the veterans and high EGO players?


All in all, the only thing you mentioned that sounded interesting was the adjustment or removal of weapons that are really just junk, everything else was the same clown in a new costume.

Nefarious
08-23-2014, 01:22 PM
http://oi26.tinypic.com/25ppeyq.jpg

I agree with most of these needing balance with a lot of them being tuned to be slightly better in certain areas. But some guns labeled as 'not needed' is to extreme. A lot of this is just not directed at you Xervez as much as it is to the Devs that hopefully would read it because I will go over stuff that you didn't particular point out.



Assault Rifles
VOT Mazu Blast Rifle
VOT Blast Rifle - weapon not needed
FRC Assault Carbine - weapon not needed

weak DMG/fast RoF<<<.................................................. ............................>>>strong DMG/ slow RoF
Blast Rifle- Mazu - Assault Rifle -/- Assault Carbine - TACC Assault - FRC Heavy Assault Carbine

....then all the way in its own category of Volge weapons Typhoon AR.

The Assault Rifle is in the middle in which everything branches off from. It goes in both directions left and right. Left side being higher rate of fire but being weaker and then right side starts to go towards ARs that shoot slower but are stronger. And there is nothing wrong with it working this way. This is shooter games AR class basic 101 here of how this goes. Now maybe the Blast Rifle for many is not as desirable as the other stronger variants but ppl do like it.

Assault Carbine is good, it just needs to be a little bit more accurate.

Its the FRC Heavy Assault Carbine is what makes the Assault Carbine look like crap and along with a lot of others. Not by itself though without a little of oversight help...

FRC Heavy Assault Carbine with a +3 round burst mod turns into the fastest shooting AR along with it being the strongest. There is absolutely no pause between shots with its burst like the TACC has. Its just a over lapping rain of 3 round burst fire. This is something that needs to get fixed because it allows the strongest AR which is other wise semi auto turn into full auto mayhem like no other.



Combat Shotguns
VOT Auto Fragger
VOT Surge Nano-Fragger
VBI Auto-Shotgun - standard overall for the combat shotguns
VBI TACC-Shotgun - weapon not needed
VBI PAS-24 Tornado
FRC Auto-Scattergun - weapon not needed
FRC Berzerker Shotgun
FRC Particle Scattergun

EMC/TACC shotgun is weak because its not that strong to begin with along with its flat line spread makes it so that a lot of pellets don't hit targets since most targets don't take the full spread as its wider then them. The plus side is that it has little recoil and fast reload. If is was going to get a boost it should be to base mag size from 12 to 15.

Surge Nano Fragger on full charge proc's Nano Effect. Every time. (Just like the Particle Ultimag Pistol). That is a huge plus and very unique. It does not need any kinds of buff what so ever. You can keep PvE enemies at a stand still with a Shock one. Proc Bio on high armor plate enemies. You can constantly be pinging players with a Bio one in PvP and poop shoeing them and you just need to partially tag them with the spread of the shot to do it, the same thing with shock to blind and disable their hud. The thing is more then fine.

The Particle Scatter gun is very strong and densely accurate on its charged shot. Not much should be done to this other then make it a little bit stronger or a little bit more denser with its spread on its full charge. One or the other I think. But its pretty good as is.



Detonators - adjust the big boomer and work you way down from there to make them more viable.
VOT Auto Lobber
VOT Rebound Lobber
FRC Crash Boomer
FRC Matchlock Boomer


Detonators are all pretty solid at what they should do. Its just that the Boomer over shadows them all in being better at doing what all the others can do. Boomer wants to have the biggest blast radius in the game then it should be weaker. The weakest Det. Keep in mind even if it does turn into the weakest Det to balance out its blast radius that it will still benefit from Deadly Cascade Perk more then anything else could because of its blast radius. Deadly Cascade - Bonus DMG for every additional enemy caught in the explosion, up to 30%. . That's 30% for each enemy caught. It will still be strong. But as it is now with Deadly Cascade it evaporates everything like a Nuke. The Boomer is one of the classic over powered guns since week 1.



Rocket Launchers
VOT Longshot Cannon
VOT Rebounder Cannon
VOT Swarm Cannon
VBI AR1 Armada
FRC Interceptor
FRC Rocket Pod

Rockets. Nothing to extreme needs to be changed about them since the way they work and shoot is a enough difference between them . Its just that the stats for a lot of them are the same. Same power, same reload, same blast radius. And it really funnels down to the Long Shot Cannon as its the best.

All the Rockets that spread 'children projectiles' are good except the Rebounder Cannon as its a bit underwhelming.



Sub Machine Guns - Put a fire rate limitation on VoT Tachmag Pulsers / Needlers variants to bring more variety back to the SMG's so it's not just on the highest fire rate.
VBI SMG - combines AR aim with terrible hip accuracy... unique but can be adjusted
FRC Nomad SMG - weapon not needed
FRC Sub-Carbine - unique outta of all the SMG's

I don't see a RoF limitation on SMGs. That would just be confusing for players and a lot of SMGs could end up with bonus rolls that would be able to boost RoF to a certain number and then other wise be capped that would make those very such bonus disadvantages. You would be better off having DMG rolls then in such a predicament since you would get the full effect and not end up being cut off.



Light Machine Guns
VBI LM-43 Thunder
VBI LM-12 Rocker

Thunder is more then fine. It has little Recoil. Good rate of fire. Big Mag size as is. Its base mag is 120. If anything increase its mag size but that would be pushing it. It doesn't need to be more accurate. It doesn't need to be stronger.

The Rocker is strong but could use a bit more density to its volleys. Its a 5 round burst with the shots being a bit to spread out.



Pump Shotguns
VOT Fragger - probably one of the easier pump shotguns to use, not sure why that's here
VBI Shotgun - weapon is not needed
FRC Birdshot Pump - weapon is not needed
FRC Heavy Scattergun - weapon is not needed

Birdshot pump a rate of fire increase? The thing shoots slow as hell and considering its so weak it should shoot a bit faster. 16 pellets should not be stronger imo.

Heavy Scattergun was upped to 12 pellets a long time ago. Now every pellet might not be as strong as what the Normal Scatter gun shoots but the Scattergun only shoots 8. When it all adds up the 12 pellets from the Heavy Scattergun makes it stronger. Now its flat line spread is not good for hitting single targets at mid distance but it is more devastating point blank when all 12 pellets hit. Its fine.



Sawed-off Shotguns
VBI Short-Barrel Shotgun
FRC Sawed-off Scattergun
FRC Heavy Sawed-off Scattergun

Sawed off Scattergun is good as is. Its the base model in which all other sawed offs stem from just like the Assault Rifle for the AR class or FRC Rocket Pod for the Rocket class.

What could possibly be done for the Short Barrel and what makes its under classed? Be cool if the 2 shots in it could be shot individually. Or since it has 4 barrels give it 4 shots and make them over all weaker then what it has with 2. 4 single fire shots would be very cool.

Heavy Sawed-off Scattergun has a crit multiplayer of what? It doesn't say but I think its 1.0. Single shot weapon that shoots a single solid shot/x2. Make the crit multiplier higher.

Yhou
08-23-2014, 01:30 PM
Rashere can you please answer me this: Will we be able to upgrade to Legendary, ALL the mission weapons, such as Gladiator, EMC XAR-22, Blitzer, Deadbolt Sniper, Downpour Pulsar, etc. What about these weapons which may have already been upgraded to epic and were in the inventory prior to encryption. These are not able to be upgraded further at this moment. The impression was that if they were already in your inventory as epic, they could be upgraded to legendary later. This is not the case. One could quite easily feel ripped off, because it wasn't made clear. If it were so, they could have possibly been upgraded to legendary before the change. Will you fix this ?

BC001
08-23-2014, 02:34 PM
Welcome Rashere!

Your changes look good overall. Being able to maintain weapons is extremely important and helps the item chase rather than hurting it.

The weapon overhaul/box drop list is quite subjective since it has a lot to do with personal style and focus so no matter what you do you will not please everyone. It is good though that weapon balance is being looked into at all.

One thing to remember is that some of the complaints about them in lockboxes is not so much the weapon properties themselves as the fact that the tables seem overly weighted towards dropping them. For example in the old setup when I would be getting a box every few hours it seemed that I would get one or more sawed off shotguns almost every box, sometimes even two or more of the same one in the same box. Also bolt action snipers were all too common, especially since they are so often dropped in the field (it seems it is nearly guaranteed to find at least one every arkfall for instance).

Some of the weapons on the list are kind of niche weapons that are very good if used a certain way or with particular perks or skill levels but lackluster at best if not. Some really like them and some hate them depending on if they use the niche or not.

The Tornado is not really bad, its fast charge is nice but it needs a "full charge" tone or something since it is easy to miss the top-off point and so is harder to get into the proper rhythm with than most other charge weapons (the charge pistol you automatically get get with the Casti charge DLC is like that as well).

Since Defiance is kind of hybrid shooter/rpg it does not have to be a case of one only weapon for every purpose and only one purpose for every weapon. It is actually good to have equivalents that have similar qualities in different "brands" now and then since knockoffs and work-alikes are so prevalent in the real world it makes it more realistic in the RPG point of view.

Some DLC weapons seem to only come in green, those should not be encrypted or limited to only one rarity upgrade before encrypting. Maybe a sliding scale could be used with little or no chance of locking at low rarity levels and more of a chance of encrypting as rarity goes up (which would not be bad as a general thing for other weapons either depending on the balance of the probability brackets). Of course fixing them so they can drop more often and at higher rarity level than just green would probably work too.

Xervez
08-23-2014, 02:48 PM
I agree with most of these needing balance with a lot of them being tuned to be slightly better in certain areas. But some guns labeled as 'not needed' is to extreme. A lot of this is just not directed at you Xervez as much as it is to the Devs that hopefully would read it because I will go over stuff that you didn't particular point out.



There has to be a pro / con for each weapon / category and if you can't clearly see the pro / con then you need to go back to the drawing board.

I see your points but if the weapon is too similar and the only way to give it a personality is to drastically overhaul the gun it would be easier to just take it out completely out of circulation.




Birdshot pump a rate of fire increase? The thing shoots slow as hell and considering its so weak it should shoot a bit faster. 16 pellets should not be stronger imo.

Heavy Scattergun was upped to 12 pellets a long time ago. Now every pellet might not be as strong as what the Normal Scatter gun shoots but the Scattergun only shoots 8. When it all adds up the 12 pellets from the Heavy Scattergun makes it stronger. Now its flat line spread is not good for hitting single targets at mid distance but it is more devastating point blank when all 12 pellets hit. Its fine.



For ex. The FRC Heavy Scattergun, it uses the same skin as the FRC Scattergun.

The FRC Scattergun is more bang for the buck and has more accurate pellet spray. Why even use the FRC Heavy Scattergun if you can use the FRC Scattergun which is the same gun skin?

There are alot of weapons that just don't have enough personality / difference, even if they get tuned abit they are just wasting space in lockboxes, inventory etc..

Also alot of the charge weapons are gimmick weapons, the base non chargeable versions are usually better.



Assault Carbine is good, it just needs to be a little bit more accurate.


Say you give the weapon more accuracy, then what? You just eclisped the VBI Assault Rifle which is the standard AR for balancing. Don't get me wrong I like the weapon but it's too similar, so it gets put into the not needed pile until you can give it a personality.




I don't see a RoF limitation on SMGs. That would just be confusing for players and a lot of SMGs could end up with bonus rolls that would be able to boost RoF to a certain number and then other wise be capped that would make those very such bonus disadvantages. You would be better off having DMG rolls then in such a predicament since you would get the full effect and not end up being cut off.



The limitation to fire rate is for the VoT Tachmag Pulser (Cannoneer) / Needler (Cannoneer) which are the fastest firing SMG's right now.
The huge discrepancy in fire rate (31.2 fire rate) compared the other SMG's is clearly seen, it won't affect all SMG's since non of them can't even come close to that.
What it will do is give a little more variety in which SMG to pick since it won't just come down to fire rate.




All in all, the only thing you mentioned that sounded interesting was the adjustment or removal of weapons that are really just junk.



This statement says it all...

Nefarious
08-23-2014, 03:18 PM
Say you give the weapon more accuracy, then what? You just eclisped the VBI Assault Rifle which is the standard AR for balancing. Don't get me wrong I like the weapon but it's too similar, so it gets put into the not needed pile until you can give it a personality.

Not really.

Assault has 45 base mag while the Carbine has 30.

Assault has a base 12.0 RoF while Carbine has 9.0

Assault has a base 2.5 Reload while Carbine has 2.3

Crit is the same for each with a base of 1.5

Assault has a base bloom of 0.33 while Carbine has 0.47

So what if the Carbine was made more accurate? The Assault still has a higher base mag and rate of fire.

The Assault Rifle is no doubt the AR in which other ARs branch from.. but why cant the Carbine be made to take that place? It also is in the middle.

weak DMG/fast RoF<<<.................................................. ............................>>>strong DMG/ slow RoF
Blast Rifle- Mazu - Assault Rifle -/- Assault Carbine - TACC Assault - FRC Heavy Assault Carbine

BC001
08-23-2014, 03:43 PM
The tachmag and needler burn through their clips and even the bulk supply very quickly even without the cannoneer, that is a kind of balance in itself.

I hope the plague of 7th legion weapons that is sweeping through the game getting into all the drop tables does not make it into general lockboxes too. While dropping a weapon that one does not have the DLC for once in a while is good advertising it is getting totally out of hand with the 7th legion stuff, especially since they take up a lot of the "higher" weapon positions in drops instead of something that is actually useful (like say something one actually has the DLC for) which leaves nothing but junk weapons usable from the encounter. Worse yet, the things are only worth the merchant payout for them since they are all over the place so no one want to buy any of them.

As for the assault carbine, the name itself implies a shorter barrel and lower accuracy which is a good reason not to make them as accurate as full assault rifles. If they were bullpups and the assuault rifles standard configuration there might be some justification for making them close in accuracy, but that does not seem to be the case from the skins.

Rowdyrowdy
08-23-2014, 03:47 PM
How about a post simply addressing the fact that you know your servers are lagging terribly and give us an estimated fix date?

Not even worth logging into the game for the past few days. The game is completely unplayable. I could care less about improvements or any other issues even being addressed at a time when I can't even play the game as intended.

heartbreak_courier
08-23-2014, 04:05 PM
Thanks for this, Rashere -- and welcome! I was a big fan of Everquest back in the day and from all accounts Copernicus looked like it would've been fantastic. Sad about what happened because I loved Reckoning, but I'm glad Defiance has a fresh set of eyes looking over its systems.

Cyripax NeoPrime
08-23-2014, 06:29 PM
"You should be able to keep an epic item leveled with you without to much trouble" "keeping A leg. Item will be more difficult..."

(A) epic or legendary? Like a single one? Or multiple? Lol. I just have to ask, because how trion is with wording things. Either vague or quite literal. So what about those of us who have a few items or hell, 4 we are fond of. When will we be able to get back to the days we could keep all our top favs useable and modded out. You literally have to be a full time scrip/salvage hunter to use the salvage matrix or buy anything good these days. Understanding its an mmo, and you do have to put time in to get rewarded. But some of us have lives and cant scrip farm for 5hrs a day. Casuals cant do anything. I remember all the money/cash shop support ive given,and hours i spent since beta loving and playing this game but its just a bit too rediculous now. Theyve patch-nerfed the whole great experience this game couldve been and used to be closer to, into t.p.o.n.r. -Im hoping you can make it return. But....

This makes it sound like your literally saying well be able to now afford to keep a single item on the up and up. Ugh, I guess im past the days of bieng able to fully enjoy this game. For example, Theres just no time after work and family to get a mil scrip for a lockbox worth something to only have crap drop and have to farm for another week to try again. Its like you can either do 1 thing or another in the game now. You cant do everything. I used to have multiple weaps modded out and good to go and have scrip to spare for vehicles and whatever else. Now its like the economy in defiance is like it is on earth. Astronomical prices, and zero payout to put into our wallets. Anyway....any word on when the 72hr goaltime will be back for ticket support? I know its not your department, but i still havent gotten all my early adopter stuff back from when f2p launch completely screwed me(and many others). My tickets have been open for weeks. All my toons arent even able to buy tier 4s yet without my keycode increases they forgot to give back.

Oh,please leave the VOT auto fragger and Matzu blast rifle!

taco man 67
08-23-2014, 07:08 PM
will there be any change in the key drop rate? or will it still take us days to do something we could do in hours? how about a reduction in the key cost at the lock box as well.

p.s. welcome to the game sir

Spooky Q7
08-23-2014, 07:35 PM
Thank you, This is the beginning I hope of most wonderful things to come, for all of us ark hunters, and nice to meet you Rashereu, we are a family of 8,and we all play, Keep the good work moving forward..

Nefarious
08-23-2014, 07:38 PM
will there be any change in the key drop rate? or will it still take us days to do something we could do in hours? how about a reduction in the key cost at the lock box as well.

p.s. welcome to the game sir

If anything they should just cut the key cost from lock boxes in half.

As far as keys from events go there are way more of them active at any giving time. More events taking place means more that can be participated in which means more keys. Before it was only a couple of Major Ark Falls, now they're everywhere.

Jasper Townsend
08-23-2014, 09:34 PM
Thank you for showing the concern and taking the time to communicate clearly and frankly with the community. I now have hope that Defiance will not go down like the Titanic. You seem to have a clear vision of how to better manage this game's economy. Retuning a bunch of weapons is a great idea, and some of the ones on the list are favored by me so if you want to make them better I don't mind them being absent from lockboxes for a while. Have at it! Glad you are on the job, Rashere!

DEATHBRINGER210
08-23-2014, 09:37 PM
Hello everybody! I wanted to pop in here and introduce myself and talk a bit about some changes we’re making that should find their way to PTS soon.

First things first, my name is Travis McGeathy, though you’ll see me post as Rashere, a name I picked up in the early days of MMOs and that has stuck with me as a developer ever since. I’ve been making MMOs for about 18 years. In that time, I’ve worked on almost every genre out there from text MUDs to flight sims, turn-based strategy to first-person shooters, and everything in between. Before coming to Trion, I was the Design Director for an MMORPG known to the world as Project Copernicus and before that I was the Lead Designer on EverQuest (and now I just feel old…) I joined Trion a few months ago to work on another project and recently moved over to Defiance where I’ll be focusing on the game systems and economy (jumping right into the fire!)

With that out of the way, the stuff you actually care about: what am I doing?

Arkforge:
We’ll be reducing the cost associated with increasing the EGO rating of an item.

I’ve been looking at the rate that Arkforge is entering the game after the recent changes relative to the costs associated with upgrading weapons. As some of your feedback has attested to, even if you’re focused on finding Arkforge, you’ll tend to gain EGO faster than you’ll find the Arkforge needed to upgrade your high end items. Since enemy difficulty scales as your EGO increases, this puts you in a rough spot. After this change, assuming you’re seeking out Arkforge drops, you should be able to keep an Epic item levelled with you without too much trouble. Keeping a Legendary upgraded will be more difficult, though not so out of reach as it is currently.

Some of you will ask why reduce the costs instead of increasing the drop rates since the initial change was to lower the drop rates? The answer is largely because of the cost associated with upgrading the rarity of an item. That’s something that should be difficult, especially upgrading from an Epic to a Legendary item, and increasing the drop rates would also affect those upgrade costs.

That leads me to encryption.

Encryption:
We’re going to reduce, or remove altogether, items dropping in an encrypted state, with the exception of Legendary items for obvious reasons.

Legendary items should be, if not actually Legendary, at least very hard to obtain. Unfortunately, when you can take an Uncommon drop and bring it all the way to Legendary, that’s no longer true and it leaves you, as a player, with very little to look forward to in the future. Encryption helps with that since you can only upgrade an item one rarity tier before it’s locked, so that Uncommon that was trivial to get can only become a Rare at best. To get a Legendary, you need to start with Epic (which would be a great life motto, actually). It leaves room for new, better items to enter the world and find their way to your inventory.

That being said, difficult to upgrade is one thing, impossible is another. When the majority of new items are dropping in a pre-encrypted state, it renders the upgrade feature largely useless.

This is probably a bit shocking to some folks since auto-encryption was just introduced and this seems like an about face. Put simply, that’s because it is. Sometimes you accidentally use a hammer when you really needed a scalpel. I believe the encryption system itself, combined with the Arkforge cost required to upgrade an Epic to a Legendary, is sufficient to ensure Legendary items remain highly desirable. Auto-encrypting the majority of drops on top of that doesn’t add a lot of value. So, I’d like to fix that.

Lock Boxes:
We’re removing a host of items that you feel are undesirable from the lock boxes and bumping the T4 lock boxes to always drop at least 1 epic item.

Phantasie has talked about our goal of ensuring you’re getting value out of the lock boxes (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?170929-An-update-on-the-recent-reward-changes) and this is part of it. We’ve seen a lot of feedback that it sucks to get 4 blues when buying the big box and we agree. I think ensuring an Epic on those T4 Lock Boxes will be a big step toward that goal.

We’ll also be introducing lock boxes that only drop weapons or only drop shields. This comes from player feedback that some people are trying to get just a weapon or just a shield and they’d like to be able to focus their purchases on those.

For the weapons, defining undesirable is tricky since it’s very subjective, but there was a great thread (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?171286-Undesirable-Weapon-research) on these forums that helped pinpoint weapons that most of you feel are currently undesirable. I plan to retune those weapons so they are more desirable in the future, but that’s going to take some time. In the meantime, we’ll be removing them from the T2, T3, and T4 lock boxes. The affected weapons are:

VOT Mazu Blast Rifle
VOT Bolter
VOT Meteor Bolter
VOT Blast Rifle
VOT Rebounder Cannon
VOT Fragger
VOT Swarm Cannon
VOT Auto Fragger
VOT Outbreaker
VOT Breaker Cannon
VOT Infector
VOT Longshot Cannon
VOT Afflictor
VBI SMG
VBI INF-27 Immunizer
VBI AR1 Armada
VBI Short-Barrel Shotgun
VBI Auto-Shotgun
VBI Guided Launcher
VBI LM-43 Thunder
VBI LM-12 Rocker
VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle
VBI Shotgun
FRC Birdshot Pump
FRC Magnum
FRC Sub-Carbine
FRC Particle Repeater
FRC Northstar Flare
FRC Nomad SMG
FRC Rocket Pod
FRC Sawed-off Scattergun
FRC Innoculator
FRC Incubator
FRC Interceptor
VOT Auto Lobber
VOT Rebound Lobber
FRC Crash Boomer
FRC Matchlock Boomer

Feel free to chime in if I’m yanking your favorite gun or if there’s some abomination you feel should be on the list. I’m erring on the side of caution here, so unlikely to remove something that’s controversial, but I’m happy to get the feedback and take a look. If you want to take a look at how it works before it goes live, this should be showing up on the Public Test Server (PTS) in the next couple of days. Hop on, try it out, and let us know what you think.

If you read this far, thanks for your time! That’s a lot to digest at once. I’m in the process of making these changes now and they’ll be hitting PTS as fast as I can get them done. Keep an eye on the PTS patch notes so you’ll have the opportunity to come try them out and let us know what you think before they go live.

Looking forward to getting to know you all better,
Travis “Rashere” McGeathy
longshot cannon is fine. something needs to be done about the rng, i have wasted alot forge rolling guns , having rolls show up 3 and 4 times

JadedSinn
08-23-2014, 09:43 PM
FRC Northstar Flare : keep it in the lock box.

alot of people over look it due to its low fire rate and single shot clip. with the right mods and the right synergy this gun is acualy vary good and should stay in the game

on a single shot it can do between 9k damage to a nice crit of 50k damage. and that was only at ego level 3500 when i had my OJ one.

i have a blue right now that does that without mods.

to bypass the single shot just add a mag mod. and u have a gun that can fire up to 9 shots. yes slowly but still at a commmange rate of 9 shots doing 9-10K min and 20-50K max this small hand cannon is one of the best weapons for incersions, seiges. infected control. and even takes down most if not all dark mater solders with a single hit (( this is all based off my own exsperiance and also soloing alot with it when leveling pistols )) the gun is like the pistol version of a detinater or even the pistol version of the shotgun cluster shot.

so please do not remove it from action in the lock boxes. it is desierabul by alot of players.

also it comes in handy becuse it does have a dubble nano on it it has a fire nano from the flare and can get any other nano. as its " real nano " i find that poop shoes aka bio and the flare efect work good side by side.

Nefarious
08-23-2014, 10:06 PM
FRC Northstar Flare : keep it in the lock box.

alot of people over look it due to its low fire rate and single shot clip. with the right mods and the right synergy this gun is acualy vary good and should stay in the game

on a single shot it can do between 9k damage to a nice crit of 50k damage. and that was only at ego level 3500 when i had my OJ one.

i have a blue right now that does that without mods.

to bypass the single shot just add a mag mod. and u have a gun that can fire up to 9 shots. yes slowly but still at a commmange rate of 9 shots doing 9-10K min and 20-50K max this small hand cannon is one of the best weapons for incersions, seiges. infected control. and even takes down most if not all dark mater solders with a single hit (( this is all based off my own exsperiance and also soloing alot with it when leveling pistols )) the gun is like the pistol version of a detinater or even the pistol version of the shotgun cluster shot.

so please do not remove it from action in the lock boxes. it is desierabul by alot of players.

also it comes in handy becuse it does have a dubble nano on it it has a fire nano from the flare and can get any other nano. as its " real nano " i find that poop shoes aka bio and the flare efect work good side by side.


http://media.tumblr.com/af09467f6e87b5b1357e2ac1ae6ad095/tumblr_mklbcdjZ8D1s6t1oio1_500.gif

This is exactly whats needed when pointing out weapons and what they are capable of.

If guns are getting revamped then the hidden details need to come out for them or else they could potential become to strong after the fact.

maverick07
08-24-2014, 02:05 AM
snip

I do agree with a number of points with your feedback. But I'm not sure I agree with the Heavy Assault needing adjusting. If anything the burst mag itself could be looked at further down the line (Heavy Assault isn't the only gun it can increase the fire rate on by a decent amount). But the Heavy Assault with a burst mag isn't nearly the kind of OP weapon the pre nerf saw was.

The Heavy Assault is capable of high DPS with the burst mag but its sustained DPS isn't all that. The base reload is longer than other ARs, and with a clip size of 20, you are usually reloading it as much as you are firing it with a burst mag. Sure you can get one with mag and reload rolls and work around that. But then you won't have the Crit and DMG rolls to make it shine against good VBI rifles.

Even its basic DPS numbers with the burst mag can be beat by VOT Blasters. And those can come with a lot more in the mag as well...

Also the Heavy Scattergun used to come with 12 in the mag and do the same DMG as the Scattergun. They of course nerfed that to 8, and after us bringing it to their attention a bunch, they brought the pellets back up to 12 but they reduced the damage per pellet to match the Scattergun to compensate. They need to do something with it. Not much reason to use one over a Scattergun tbh.

The standard Scattergun shoots faster, is more accurate, and reloads faster. The DMG per shot on the Heavy IS slightly higher but it is not enough for it to compete against the standard Scattergun.

garrett53
08-24-2014, 04:38 AM
vot fragger on this list is like a rly bad joke

alphawolf01a
08-24-2014, 06:09 AM
If you're going to create different lockboxes for weapons and shields, Why not just make boxes for each weapon class? Pistol lockbox, AR lockbox, shotgun lockbox, infector lockbox, .... Then people have a better chance for the weapons they want, not the ones they don't want.

Also, how about showing the color of the mod attached so you can easily see what needs to be upgraded. EX-Green Barrel, purple magazine, blue stock... Either color the description text, or just the mod icon?

otonagamer
08-24-2014, 06:47 AM
These are the weapons I think should stay in Lock Box:

VOT Mazu Blast Rifle
This is the better one.

VOT Bolter/Meteor Bolter
One of rare, high-rate of fire Bolt Action Sniper.

VBI SMG
One of the best and my fav SMG.

VBI LM-43 Thunder
One of the best and my fav LMG.

FRC Northstar Flare
The best non-DLC pistol to earn XP. Only weapon which can have two Nano effects.

FRC Incubator
Useful in PvP and against Hulker.

Redbu11
08-24-2014, 07:30 AM
These are the weapons I think should stay in Lock Box:

VOT Mazu Blast Rifle
This is the better one.

VOT Bolter/Meteor Bolter
One of rare, high-rate of fire Bolt Action Sniper.

VBI SMG
One of the best and my fav SMG.

VBI LM-43 Thunder
One of the best and my fav LMG.

FRC Northstar Flare
The best non-DLC pistol to earn XP. Only weapon which can have two Nano effects.

FRC Incubator
Useful in PvP and against Hulker.

pff lol, these weapons are too weak

adrokier
08-24-2014, 08:02 AM
VOT Fragger? Its one of the best Weapons ^^

Grandpa Ace
08-24-2014, 09:21 AM
FYI...I received an epic (purple) Wolfhound, and was hoping to make it Legendary (OJ), however, the new encryption BOLOGNA is not letting me. I thought maybe I needed to Master it, however, that did not help either. I.e., it won't let me upgrade to Legendary...this needs a fix. :(

GPA

Grandpa Ace
08-24-2014, 09:32 AM
I have to "CHIME" in on this part (see below), viz., and in example; I work hard to earn Keycodes to buy lockboxes. I used to get T3 & T2 boxes because we all knew the truth...they were better!!! However, since the change, and over the past several days, I have opened 6 Lockboxes, with the following results: 2 Epics, both of which were "undesirable" and 22 totally worthless blues. So I hope you get hot on this fix, to bad I can't or don't have a way to sell back these worthless weapons for a least half my hard fought/earned Keycodes. VERY DISGRUNTLED :( :(
GPA

Lock Boxes:
We’re removing a host of items that you feel are undesirable from the lock boxes and bumping the T4 lock boxes to always drop at least 1 epic item.

Phantasie has talked about our goal of ensuring you’re getting value out of the lock boxes and this is part of it. We’ve seen a lot of feedback that it sucks to get 4 blues when buying the big box and we agree. I think ensuring an Epic on those T4 Lock Boxes will be a big step toward that goal.

We’ll also be introducing lock boxes that only drop weapons or only drop shields. This comes from player feedback that some people are trying to get just a weapon or just a shield and they’d like to be able to focus their purchases on those.

Nefarious
08-24-2014, 12:40 PM
These are the weapons I think should stay in Lock Box:

VOT Mazu Blast Rifle
This is the better one.

VOT Bolter/Meteor Bolter
One of rare, high-rate of fire Bolt Action Sniper.

VBI SMG
One of the best and my fav SMG.

VBI LM-43 Thunder
One of the best and my fav LMG.

FRC Northstar Flare
The best non-DLC pistol to earn XP. Only weapon which can have two Nano effects.

FRC Incubator
Useful in PvP and against Hulker.



pff lol, these weapons are too weak

Well its not necessarily wrong.

The Mazu has decent damage and real good rate of fire, could be a bit more accurate.

Its right about the VOT Bolters being the fastest bolt actions.

VBI SMG is no weaker then other SMGs, shoots slower but is more accurate in aim fire. It can very easily reach past 0.0 bloom as is, what needs to be done about it as of why ppl say its to weak idk.

The Thunder is a good LMG. Good enough not to be out classed by the others but not to outclass them. Besides the Rocker all LMGs are solid choices.

North Star flair, read what JadedSinn had to say as he sums up why its good.

Yeah Incubator is weak but the context was against the Hulker which it is good because every shot puts it into poop shoes/Bio effect and slows the Hulker down. Unlike using the a FRC Sludge rocket to slow it down where it leaves pools that also neutralize ground that you can tread on the Incubator can just shoot a shot every few seconds to keep a slowing effect on it from start to finish.

I myself prefer a Trapper BMG but the Incubator does it just as good.

adrokier
08-24-2014, 02:26 PM
Welcome Rashere, good List .. and really nice thoughts bout the Game, seems fresh air coming

Question: I have some Weapons of those u listed, is the idea that ppl still "can" keep them in their inventory .. for example ... I collect VOT Fragger and Grind Fragger and wud like to keep them in my inventory :)

adrokier
08-24-2014, 02:32 PM
Well its not necessarily wrong.

The Mazu has decent damage and real good rate of fire, could be a bit more accurate.

Its right about the VOT Bolters being the fastest bolt actions.

VBI SMG is no weaker then other SMGs, shoots slower but is more accurate in aim fire. It can very easily reach past 0.0 bloom as is, what needs to be done about it as of why ppl say its to weak idk.

The Thunder is a good LMG. Good enough not to be out classed by the others but not to outclass them. Besides the Rocker all LMGs are solid choices.

North Star flair, read what JadedSinn had to say as he sums up why its good.

Yeah Incubator is weak but the context was against the Hulker which it is good because every shot puts it into poop shoes/Bio effect and slows the Hulker down. Unlike using the a FRC Sludge rocket to slow it down where it leaves pools that also neutralize ground that you can tread on the Incubator can just shoot a shot every few seconds to keep a slowing effect on it from start to finish.

I myself prefer a Trapper BMG but the Incubator does it just as good.

PPL we shud think bout if all these Weapons, Rashere mentioned, r not any more in the Lockboxes ... we will get only the best Weapons right?

The Drop rate will be decreased heavily and if I get an oj it shud be a surge bolter, VBI ar, canker, zagger, jackpot Weapons and so on .. not Meteor Bolter, sure those Weapons have their moments ^^

I think all Weapons on this List, we dnt need them, there are better ones ... I like the VOT Fragger one of the best PVP Guns ... but Zagger is also cool

But we shud think wich great Weapons will stay ... and thats cool ... all these middle thing Weapons ... sure with the right stats and rolls every Weapon can be at least okay ^^

But VBI SMG? EEMC is better, Tachmag better, Springer better so there are enuf choices to have and sure ppl will may need the DLC to use all the good Weapons, thats okay for me. Better then to nerf all good Weapons cos other Gamers only get crap from boxes and complain bout so that Trion will nerf everything to crap ...think bout that... I like the idea made by Rashere very very much

Market
08-24-2014, 04:42 PM
Question: I have some Weapons of those u listed, is the idea that ppl still "can" keep them in their inventory .. for example ... I collect VOT Fragger and Grind Fragger and wud like to keep them in my inventory :)

They're not removing them from the game, just the lockbox drop tables, and only for as long as it takes to bring some of the less desirable gear into range of the other weapons.

Short answer, your inventory is safe.

Atticus Batman
08-24-2014, 04:50 PM
FYI...I received an epic (purple) Wolfhound, and was hoping to make it Legendary (OJ), however, the new encryption BOLOGNA is not letting me. I thought maybe I needed to Master it, however, that did not help either. I.e., it won't let me upgrade to Legendary...this needs a fix. :(

GPA If the weapon is encrypted, then it is not upgradable. You can only rarity upgrade weapons that are not encrypted, and you can only do so once.

ConcreteSnake
08-24-2014, 06:17 PM
Wow! And welcome. Seems in the short time you've spent in defiance you are addressing issues that the players have had since the beginning of the game. I actually think you should just be promoted to "creative lead" or "lead designer" you are clearly qualified for the job. I have actually taken a leave of absence from defiance since the silicon valley 2.2 patch and am waiting to come back but I need a reason......and you may be IT.

Crack
08-24-2014, 07:00 PM
You want to see a huge crowd coming running back? Reverse the changes of the 2.02 patch and introduce a new rarity of gear. Tell me that you've added a new rarity of our gear (lets say pearl) that has more DMG, higher Crit, faster reload speed, an additional roll, etc...and Id be right back to 8+ hours daily grinding trying to replace the 500 or more legendaries I have spread across 6 toons. =)

Atticus Batman
08-24-2014, 08:14 PM
{Snip}Tell me that you've added a new rarity of our gear (lets say pearl) that has more DMG, higher Crit, faster reload speed, an additional roll,{Snip})

That would be what an encrypted gun is, minus the extra roll you want.

Dandrielas
08-24-2014, 08:51 PM
The new dev sounds like he actually knows what he is doing. I like him.

DrTogobban
08-24-2014, 10:01 PM
Welcome Rashere; a name I recognize! Spent years in EQ - from PoP until the big Sony hack a few years ago. So many memories.... glad to have you aboard!

I know you're currently being flooded with arkforge/lockbox changes, but I'd like to ask you to take a moment to have a look at a thread I started a few days ago. It's something very simple and I think you'll agree that it makes sense - basically right now a legendary reward item from a pursuit completion can be earned much easier than I believe it was designed to be, resulting in having to spend a considerable amount of arkforge (1-2k) to keep it viable. I'm referring to the Snake's Bite I/II pursuits from Arktech Revolution. The other 2 pursuits in the DLC require you to actively seek out opportunities to complete them for the legendary reward (expert co-op's at high EGO), while the Snake's Bite can be achieved passively through participation in arkfalls and emergencies.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?172535-Snakes-Bite-Chimera-Fang-and-ego-leveling-arkforge.-This-isn-t-right.

Thanks!

Thegelas
08-25-2014, 03:40 AM
I agree on the "reducing upgrading rating cost" and the reason for not increasing the drop rate for arkforge again.

I agree with the "encryption stuff"

However, I can not realy agree with the lockboxes stuff.
1) I would remove the following weapons from the list
VBI SMG
VBI Guided Launcher
VBI LM-43 Thunder

2) I have no problems with 4 blue items, as long as they are usefull. The problem, to me, was always: 4 completely worthless and useless weapons/shields/grenades.
Undesirable weapon with no special damage art -> worthless
Grenades... how about you decrease the chance for a grenade in a box, but when a grenade comes, it upgrades the ones you hae in possession by one tier?
2a) splitting lockboxes into weapons/shields is ok

iCHUTOYx6SB
08-25-2014, 04:35 AM
Please don't take the thunder

Crack
08-25-2014, 05:20 AM
That would be what an encrypted gun is, minus the extra roll you want.

All fine and good, but all ojs got auto-encrypted. Defeats the idea of a NEW rarity to grind for.

Metaxan
08-25-2014, 06:53 AM
[QUOTE=Rashere;1603623]Hello everybody! I wanted to pop in here and introduce myself and talk a bit about some changes we’re making that should find their way to PTS soon.

VBI LM-43 Thunder

Keep this one. For a midlevel ego player like me the auto nerfing effect of changing threat level during an arkfall and other events means high impact large magazine weapons are the only thing that can keep me in the game. Just a few minutes ago it took 18 hits with a maxed out (for me) oj area suppressor to kill a single zombie. Too far above 5 for me and I mostly either hide or run away from too many downs and too little effectiveness of the weapons.

Pandur
08-25-2014, 07:07 AM
Hmm well first time in a while I'd say something good is happening for the game.


I would keep the VBI Smg and the VBI LM-43 Thunder

The thunder might not be top tier but it's decent and really fun to use.(Think Rambo minigunning)

I like using the VBI Smg too, mainly because it's average in most things, so I doesn't have large flaws to me either.

Nymeria
08-25-2014, 07:32 AM
Welcome Rashere! Nice, I used to play EverQuest a while back it's good to see some more talent added to Defiance.
It's good to hear from a dev that sounds like he knows what he's doing as well as has a actual plan set out for what he wants to do. I hope you are able to complete what you've listed and it makes things better in game. Best of luck to you. :)

taco man 67
08-25-2014, 09:07 AM
when u put the weapons back in the boxes will the existing weapons be upgraded retro? or is that why u are removing them in the 1st place?

Tornad0s
08-25-2014, 09:11 AM
"You should be able to keep an epic item leveled with you without to much trouble" "keeping A leg. Item will be more difficult..."

(A) epic or legendary? Like a single one? Or multiple? Lol. I just have to ask, because how trion is with wording things. Either vague or quite literal. So what about those of us who have a few items or hell, 4 we are fond of. When will we be able to get back to the days we could keep all our top favs useable and modded out. You literally have to be a full time scrip/salvage hunter to use the salvage matrix or buy anything good these days. Understanding its an mmo, and you do have to put time in to get rewarded. But some of us have lives and cant scrip farm for 5hrs a day. Casuals cant do anything. I remember all the money/cash shop support ive given,and hours i spent since beta loving and playing this game but its just a bit too rediculous now. Theyve patch-nerfed the whole great experience this game couldve been and used to be closer to, into t.p.o.n.r. -Im hoping you can make it return. But....

This makes it sound like your literally saying well be able to now afford to keep a single item on the up and up. Ugh, I guess im past the days of bieng able to fully enjoy this game. For example, Theres just no time after work and family to get a mil scrip for a lockbox worth something to only have crap drop and have to farm for another week to try again. Its like you can either do 1 thing or another in the game now. You cant do everything. I used to have multiple weaps modded out and good to go and have scrip to spare for vehicles and whatever else. Now its like the economy in defiance is like it is on earth. Astronomical prices, and zero payout to put into our wallets.

True.

Endless worthless "grind" for weapons in shooter-game is not fun for many gamers.

Month ago we was able to "grind & craft" weapons (it was long process too), and that was pretty healthy economic model. Very different from that flat model that we have now.

Game never drop weapon of your chase, never! Oo. yes we have chance 1/1mil. And crafting system was the only possible thing that keeps many of us play and have fun. You took that fun from them.

I don't see problem with balance when everybody can earn legendary of their chase.
Because now we have game with many people 5000ego+ with full arsenal of great weapons. It's not fair for newcomers, because they cannot earn that weapons and compete with vets. So next your step must be like - remove all weapons from all users and start from blank list or introduce new level of weapons.

adrokier
08-25-2014, 12:24 PM
True.

Endless worthless "grind" for weapons in shooter-game is not fun for many gamers.

Month ago we was able to "grind & craft" weapons (it was long process too), and that was pretty healthy economic model. Very different from that flat model that we have now.

Game never drop weapon of your chase, never! Oo. yes we have chance 1/1mil. And crafting system was the only possible thing that keeps many of us play and have fun. You took that fun from them.

I don't see problem with balance when everybody can earn legendary of their chase.
Because now we have game with many people 5000ego+ with full arsenal of great weapons. It's not fair for newcomers, because they cannot earn that weapons and compete with vets. So next your step must be like - remove all weapons from all users and start from blank list or introduce new level of weapons.

right dude ... newbies complaining and all good Stats and Weapons will be nerf to crap ...

Like they r testing it right now on PTS ...

ironcladtrash
08-25-2014, 04:46 PM
Snip

Your whole post is what gives me glimmers of hope. We have been asking for the loot and rewards to be overhauled forever. Glad to see it will be done.

GooberStomper
08-25-2014, 05:11 PM
Your whole post is what gives me glimmers of hope. We have been asking for the loot and rewards to be overhauled forever. Glad to see it will be done.

Feels like more hot air blown up ^$$ just from diff lips to me

Believe it IF it ever happens

make it rain OJ weapons for every 500 point wont mean crap if you cant stay connected long enough to pick up stuff on ground

FIX THE LAG

ironcladtrash
08-25-2014, 06:59 PM
Feels like more hot air blown up ^$$ just from diff lips to me

Believe it IF it ever happens

make it rain OJ weapons for every 500 point wont mean crap if you cant stay connected long enough to pick up stuff on ground

FIX THE LAG

Lag definitely has to come first, I was hoping it was only temporary but has been pretty bad and almost unplayable for the last week. It's been noticeable since F2P launched but the worst recently.

I am willing to give the new guy the benefit of the doubt. Looks like they brought him on just to fix the loot which is what we have been saying forever was awful and never acknowledged till recently. At least the fact they are admitting it's awful is a step in the right direction even if it is long overdue.

Iceberg
08-25-2014, 08:35 PM
Feels like more hot air blown up ^$$ just from diff lips to me

Believe it IF it ever happens

make it rain OJ weapons for every 500 point wont mean crap if you cant stay connected long enough to pick up stuff on ground

FIX THE LAG

I believe they are trying to fix the lag by pushing more and more players away from defiance, but that doesn't seem to be working either.

Mygraine
08-26-2014, 01:19 PM
Add in scavenger synergy sniper rifles. Heck make it the next jackpot and watch box sales sky rocket
Mygraine

Rashere
08-26-2014, 03:38 PM
As an update, the vast majority of this is now on PTS including a little bonus in that we removed the timers associated with actions in the salvage matrix (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?172874-Removing-Timers-from-the-Salvage-Matrix&p=1606806#post1606806).

From the original list, these are on PTS now:

Cost to upgrade EGO rating of items has been reduced by 50%.
Auto-encryption now only occurs for Legendary items, both in-game and in lock boxes.
The T4 Lock Box now guarantees at least one epic or better item.
The supply crates built off the T4 lock box (Machinist, Outlaw, Survivalist, and Veteran) now also guarantee at least one epic or better item.
Removed a bunch of weapons that player's had noted as undesirable from the lock boxes. I'm in the process of adding some of those back now after the great feedback in the other thread (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?172562-Undesireable-Lockbox-Weapons).


The Supply Crates and T2, T3, and T4 Lock Boxes are getting updated descriptions and the T2, T3, and T4 boxes are getting new names, but that has to wait until our next full update.

The addition of new lock boxes that contain only weapons or only shields is coming, but also has to wait until the next full update before we can roll it out.

Thanks for all the great feedback!

Rashere

Infinity Eagle
08-26-2014, 03:58 PM
Thank you for all the information :)

Was wondering if you have any time frame on when this might go live? The cost reduction of arkforge.

Rashere
08-26-2014, 04:18 PM
Thank you for all the information :)

Was wondering if you have any time frame on when this might go live? The cost reduction of arkforge.

Barring problems coming up during testing, this will all go out with the next server patch. I don't believe that's been scheduled yet, but shouldn't be too far out.

Rashere

ateballing
08-26-2014, 04:53 PM
Barring problems coming up during testing, this will all go out with the next server patch. I don't believe that's been scheduled yet, but shouldn't be too far out.

Rashere

For Trion's and Defiance's sake it had better go live before 9/9 or there will be no reason to return.

Atticus Batman
08-26-2014, 07:19 PM
For Trion's and Defiance's sake it had better go live before 9/9 or there will be no reason to return.

Not all of us care about, or can afford Destiny. Also the Pc players don't care since it isn't on Pc.

Iceberg
08-26-2014, 07:47 PM
Not all of us care about, or can afford Destiny. Also the Pc players don't care since it isn't on Pc.

Never say never, no hope for march?

otonagamer
08-26-2014, 09:17 PM
Well its not necessarily wrong.

The Mazu has decent damage and real good rate of fire, could be a bit more accurate.

Its right about the VOT Bolters being the fastest bolt actions.

VBI SMG is no weaker then other SMGs, shoots slower but is more accurate in aim fire. It can very easily reach past 0.0 bloom as is, what needs to be done about it as of why ppl say its to weak idk.

The Thunder is a good LMG. Good enough not to be out classed by the others but not to outclass them. Besides the Rocker all LMGs are solid choices.

North Star flair, read what JadedSinn had to say as he sums up why its good.

Yeah Incubator is weak but the context was against the Hulker which it is good because every shot puts it into poop shoes/Bio effect and slows the Hulker down. Unlike using the a FRC Sludge rocket to slow it down where it leaves pools that also neutralize ground that you can tread on the Incubator can just shoot a shot every few seconds to keep a slowing effect on it from start to finish.

I myself prefer a Trapper BMG but the Incubator does it just as good.Thanks!



PPL we shud think bout if all these Weapons, Rashere mentioned, r not any more in the Lockboxes ... we will get only the best Weapons right?

The Drop rate will be decreased heavily and if I get an oj it shud be a surge bolter, VBI ar, canker, zagger, jackpot Weapons and so on .. not Meteor Bolter, sure those Weapons have their moments ^^

I think all Weapons on this List, we dnt need them, there are better ones ... I like the VOT Fragger one of the best PVP Guns ... but Zagger is also cool

But we shud think wich great Weapons will stay ... and thats cool ... all these middle thing Weapons ... sure with the right stats and rolls every Weapon can be at least okay ^^

But VBI SMG? EEMC is better, Tachmag better, Springer better so there are enuf choices to have and sure ppl will may need the DLC to use all the good Weapons, thats okay for me. Better then to nerf all good Weapons cos other Gamers only get crap from boxes and complain bout so that Trion will nerf everything to crap ...think bout that... I like the idea made by Rashere very very muchYou are wrong in several ways. 1)Rashere is not saying they only leave the best weapons. 2)It's about T4 which doesn't drop DLC weapons, no zagger, no surge bolter. 3)Defiance is now free to play and lots of people are(could be) just trying. Making DLCs mandatory for those people is not a good introduction.

Last but not least, Northstar Flare with Bio is the best pistol, so much powerful and fun to play with because its huge recoil and large arch demand a bit of aiming skill, or luck! The highest DPS weapon is not always the most fun weapon to play with.

Dandrielas
08-26-2014, 09:19 PM
Thanks!


You are wrong in several ways. 1)Rashere is not saying they only leave the best weapons. 2)It's about T4 which doesn't drop DLC weapons, no zagger, no surge bolter. 3)Defiance is now free to play and lots of people are(could be) just trying. Making DLCs mandatory for those people is not a good introduction.

Last but not least, Northstar Flare with Bio is the best pistol, so much powerful and fun to play with because its huge recoil and large arch demand a bit of aiming skill, or luck! The highest DPS weapon is not always the most fun weapon to play with.

I can't stand that weapon. Give me my wolfhound and Sniper Rifle any day over that.

duction
08-27-2014, 01:03 AM
Please dont removed the 'FRC Sawed-off Scattergun' , we have very few good sawn off shotguns. i am a big fan of these. Alo the incubator is a great infector, but the bio effect doesn't work on stripping armour plates like other bio guns and this needs fixing.

drackiller
08-27-2014, 02:29 AM
I don`t understand why these changes are being made. People don`t agree about what is good or bad, because it`s proved that what is good for ones, it`s not for others.

And like Trion said not very long ago, the people here in the forum is a a small percentage of the player base and, doing changes based on the opinions of a small percentage within the small percentage that we make as a whole is WRONG.

I like some of the guns that are being removed and i also don`t like some of them, if the game has so many guns to choose, why change these ones!?
If they are bad , people wont use them, if they are good, they will. Just let each player decide what is best or not.

Not that i really care...

speedyR70
08-27-2014, 04:21 AM
as some other already mentioned:
these weapons will me made BETTER, so if you think, they are good - imagine, that they become better!
these weapons wont be erased for all time, and they won't be erased from your inventory, they only wont drop in t4 boxes for a few weeks/a month or something like that,
so dont worry and...
stop complaining, its a good idea! @Rashere: nice idea! go on with that!
i only hope, they will update these weapon types in inventory later with these changes ;-)

ateballing
08-27-2014, 04:51 AM
Not all of us care about, or can afford Destiny. Also the Pc players don't care since it isn't on Pc.

No not all but I would guess 90% of console players do. Maybe if they would money into upgrading their servers people might consider returning when/if they take a break from Destiny, but the non stop crits and lag are driving people to Destiny and the 10% or so if they continue playing won't stay for long I wouldn't think (at least not on xbox since it hasn't gone FTP) when all of paradise seems like a ghost town.

DrTogobban
08-27-2014, 07:33 AM
driving people to Destiny

Nothing in Defiance is driving people to Destiny. Destiny being new and shiny and looking great and being from the company that brought us Halo is what is driving people to Destiny. Some people (who aren't on PC) are going to play Destiny no matter what anyone says or does. The majority who have an interest in Destiny will play Destiny.

ateballing
08-27-2014, 08:04 AM
Nothing in Defiance is driving people to Destiny. Destiny being new and shiny and looking great and being from the company that brought us Halo is what is driving people to Destiny. Some people (who aren't on PC) are going to play Destiny no matter what anyone says or does. The majority who have an interest in Destiny will play Destiny.

Your right, perhaps I should have worded it a little different. With all the nerfing of rewards and weapons and there contradictory game changes (examaple creating the upgrade matrix and then creating the encryption system which makes the updrade system almost useless). There clear lack of direction and upcoming changes that They say are to fix things that were never intended to work a certain way, like speed boost, ego on reload, and gunslinger weapon effects. You guys made the game this way so how was it not intended. They are not leaving players that are going to play Destiny a reason to want to return at some point. And this games strong point is the social aspect and when you lose 75% to 90% of the active players that aspect is diminished greatly.

Quebra Regra
08-27-2014, 11:33 AM
Hello and welcome.

Yes you are.

VOT Bolter — AFAIR, it's the one with increased fire rate, so it's the best for gaining bolt action killshots for pursuit.

VOT Outbreaker — good for shooting high-health targets (Hulkers, Arkfall crystals, etc) which doesn't spawn too many bugs to cause lag.

VOT Infector — It's better for a newcomer to master a basic model before they start choosing between ones with different traits. Just my opinion.

FRC Northstar Flare — one name: Jackleg Joe. Yes, sometimes you need to set things on fire. Repeatedly.

FRC Sub-Carbine — the best ammo-saving hip-firing SMG. I know we can buy one from the rep vendor, but I'd like to have all other nano effects on them too.

Seconded on the sub carbine.

Extreme Rugburn
08-27-2014, 11:39 AM
Hello everybody! I wanted to pop in here and introduce myself and talk a bit about some changes we’re making that should find their way to PTS soon.

First things first, my name is Travis McGeathy, though you’ll see me post as Rashere, a name I picked up in the early days of MMOs and that has stuck with me as a developer ever since. I’ve been making MMOs for about 18 years. In that time, I’ve worked on almost every genre out there from text MUDs to flight sims, turn-based strategy to first-person shooters, and everything in between. Before coming to Trion, I was the Design Director for an MMORPG known to the world as Project Copernicus and before that I was the Lead Designer on EverQuest (and now I just feel old…) I joined Trion a few months ago to work on another project and recently moved over to Defiance where I’ll be focusing on the game systems and economy (jumping right into the fire!)

With that out of the way, the stuff you actually care about: what am I doing?

Arkforge:
We’ll be reducing the cost associated with increasing the EGO rating of an item.

I’ve been looking at the rate that Arkforge is entering the game after the recent changes relative to the costs associated with upgrading weapons. As some of your feedback has attested to, even if you’re focused on finding Arkforge, you’ll tend to gain EGO faster than you’ll find the Arkforge needed to upgrade your high end items. Since enemy difficulty scales as your EGO increases, this puts you in a rough spot. After this change, assuming you’re seeking out Arkforge drops, you should be able to keep an Epic item levelled with you without too much trouble. Keeping a Legendary upgraded will be more difficult, though not so out of reach as it is currently.

Some of you will ask why reduce the costs instead of increasing the drop rates since the initial change was to lower the drop rates? The answer is largely because of the cost associated with upgrading the rarity of an item. That’s something that should be difficult, especially upgrading from an Epic to a Legendary item, and increasing the drop rates would also affect those upgrade costs.

That leads me to encryption.

Encryption:
We’re going to reduce, or remove altogether, items dropping in an encrypted state, with the exception of Legendary items for obvious reasons.

Legendary items should be, if not actually Legendary, at least very hard to obtain. Unfortunately, when you can take an Uncommon drop and bring it all the way to Legendary, that’s no longer true and it leaves you, as a player, with very little to look forward to in the future. Encryption helps with that since you can only upgrade an item one rarity tier before it’s locked, so that Uncommon that was trivial to get can only become a Rare at best. To get a Legendary, you need to start with Epic (which would be a great life motto, actually). It leaves room for new, better items to enter the world and find their way to your inventory.

That being said, difficult to upgrade is one thing, impossible is another. When the majority of new items are dropping in a pre-encrypted state, it renders the upgrade feature largely useless.

This is probably a bit shocking to some folks since auto-encryption was just introduced and this seems like an about face. Put simply, that’s because it is. Sometimes you accidentally use a hammer when you really needed a scalpel. I believe the encryption system itself, combined with the Arkforge cost required to upgrade an Epic to a Legendary, is sufficient to ensure Legendary items remain highly desirable. Auto-encrypting the majority of drops on top of that doesn’t add a lot of value. So, I’d like to fix that.

Lock Boxes:
We’re removing a host of items that you feel are undesirable from the lock boxes and bumping the T4 lock boxes to always drop at least 1 epic item.

Phantasie has talked about our goal of ensuring you’re getting value out of the lock boxes (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?170929-An-update-on-the-recent-reward-changes) and this is part of it. We’ve seen a lot of feedback that it sucks to get 4 blues when buying the big box and we agree. I think ensuring an Epic on those T4 Lock Boxes will be a big step toward that goal.

We’ll also be introducing lock boxes that only drop weapons or only drop shields. This comes from player feedback that some people are trying to get just a weapon or just a shield and they’d like to be able to focus their purchases on those.

For the weapons, defining undesirable is tricky since it’s very subjective, but there was a great thread (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?171286-Undesirable-Weapon-research) on these forums that helped pinpoint weapons that most of you feel are currently undesirable. I plan to retune those weapons so they are more desirable in the future, but that’s going to take some time. In the meantime, we’ll be removing them from the T2, T3, and T4 lock boxes. The affected weapons are:

VOT Mazu Blast Rifle
VOT Bolter
VOT Meteor Bolter
VOT Blast Rifle
VOT Rebounder Cannon
VOT Fragger
VOT Swarm Cannon
VOT Auto Fragger
VOT Outbreaker
VOT Breaker Cannon
VOT Infector
VOT Longshot Cannon
VOT Afflictor
VBI SMG
VBI INF-27 Immunizer
VBI AR1 Armada
VBI Short-Barrel Shotgun
VBI Auto-Shotgun
VBI Guided Launcher
VBI LM-43 Thunder
VBI LM-12 Rocker
VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle
VBI Shotgun
FRC Birdshot Pump
FRC Magnum
FRC Sub-Carbine
FRC Particle Repeater
FRC Northstar Flare
FRC Nomad SMG
FRC Rocket Pod
FRC Sawed-off Scattergun
FRC Innoculator
FRC Incubator
FRC Interceptor
VOT Auto Lobber
VOT Rebound Lobber
FRC Crash Boomer
FRC Matchlock Boomer

Feel free to chime in if I’m yanking your favorite gun or if there’s some abomination you feel should be on the list. I’m erring on the side of caution here, so unlikely to remove something that’s controversial, but I’m happy to get the feedback and take a look. If you want to take a look at how it works before it goes live, this should be showing up on the Public Test Server (PTS) in the next couple of days. Hop on, try it out, and let us know what you think.

If you read this far, thanks for your time! That’s a lot to digest at once. I’m in the process of making these changes now and they’ll be hitting PTS as fast as I can get them done. Keep an eye on the PTS patch notes so you’ll have the opportunity to come try them out and let us know what you think before they go live.

Looking forward to getting to know you all better,
Travis “Rashere” McGeathy

This is great news and will keep me hanging around. I am so glad Trion hired someone who appears to know what they are doing. I played Everquest for 6 years and loved it, thank you for that. Hopefully you can help this sinking ship float.

I personally like the VBI SMG and Crash Boomer and would not classify them as undesirable. Something I would classify as unwanted would be the VBI PA-12 Haar Pistol and the Shield Spanner (I really hate the shield spanner and people who use it on me).

Indykid
08-28-2014, 05:52 AM
Welcome !! Glad you are saving our game.
I agree with most of your list except:
I Love to use VBI SMG, FRC Northstare Flare ( it is the reguired to beat Jackleg Joe) & VBI LM-43 are not bad either.
And a few of them like the lobbers and boomers are fun to play with when you are at a high EGO and go up against Mutants and Hellbugs on daily/weekly contracts.

But you need to do more quickly to save this game.
I play this game on Xbox and PC. I pretty well stopped playing it on xbox because it just became rediculous to try to get the server to connect and I was always getting dropped off.
My characters on both platforms are close to EGOs of 5000.
So, I want my family to play this game with me too. So I bought six Season Passes for the PC platforms and gave them out to my brothers, nephews and neice.
I noticed none of them continued playing it very long and they all had the same responces when I questioned them.
Lagging, locking ups and in general feeling of no reward for the time they were putting in.
So, I started a new character yesterday to see what it is like to start playing the game now.
I played it for over six hours last night. Being as familiar with the game as I am I figured I would blow though the lower levels. Especially, with all the bonuses I had for the first couple hours and my 20% patron bonus.
But by the end of the night I was completely frustated and fed up.
The lagging was rediculous and completely ruined the experiance. It locked up and lost the server so much that I kept swearing that if it did it again I was not logging back on again...but I kept trying.
But after 6 hours of play ( and with me knowing the game) I struggled to make it to an EGO of 178.
Looted maybe 50 weapons ( all very wimpy , most of them are on the list you just gave) earned less then 10 keys, and not a single hammers.
I ended the night with around 30K script ( and that was with a 2 script hour bonus plus the patron 20% bonus)
The script could have been higher but I lost countless thousands because do to lagging getting me killed & getting dropped off the server . Both situations kept charging me regeneration fees sometimes 8 to 10 times in a roll. I was setting there screaming I didn't die why are you charging me and why are you charging me time after time after time. It was like I was stuck in a charge loop.
These things have to get fixed quickly because we are lossing players faster then you can imagine.
I have six season passes and I don't know if I will be able to get any use out of them.

Even a drug dealer knows that you can give the drug for free at the start and get them hooked and then charge them on the return visits.
But if you give them bad drugs you just lose the junkie.
Maybe not the best analogy but seemed fitting with the F2P.

I am a hughed Defiance fan. This is the only game I play. I have played the game since it was first released( Which means I paid top dollar for all the programs, DLCs, ect.. Watch the show every week. I even have two t-shirts.

Just so you know.... I am not a kid..... I am 52 years young.

Thanks for your help... but please get this train back moving in the right direction quickly.
Thanks for you help !

N3gativeCr33p
08-28-2014, 05:57 AM
Nothing in Defiance is driving people to Destiny.

You're right... I would sooner blame external forces for the mass exodus.

drackiller
08-28-2014, 07:10 AM
FRC Northstare Flare ( it is the reguired to beat Jackleg Joe)

Never used one since day one, not a requirement to beat JJ...
...i beat JJ, when he was really Jackleg Joe, with an Heavy Assault Rifle, booyah. Good old times.

Indykid
08-28-2014, 08:42 AM
You know that is the great thing about this game it is built for all types. I do not have the speed to beat him with an assault rifle. But by using the flare pistol and a SAW I was able to beat him. You see... people like me are built for pleasure not for speed. Probably why I don't play PvP part of the game. So, this is a good expample of how the veriety of weapons cater to the different personalities.
This is also a good example of why I don't usually respond on these boards. If I said the strip above the comments is green something will crawl out of the woodwork to say it is a different color.
I was just telling my view on things in hopes that it would be helpful. I was not looking to change the world with some absolute wisdom.

Griffix8
08-28-2014, 03:47 PM
VBI SMG
VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle
FRC Sub-Carbine
These guns I like and are useful for me. I found these guns to be pretty useful and reliable, I would be disappointed to not find these anymore.

Baines
08-28-2014, 08:07 PM
These guns I like and are useful for me. I found these guns to be pretty useful and reliable, I would be disappointed to not find these anymore.

The weapons on the list aren't being removed from the game, or even being permanently removed from lock boxes.

They are being temporarily removed from lock boxes, until they receive some performance improvements. It isn't even necessarily that all the guns on the list are actually bad, but rather that they just aren't as good as alternatives. (To be fair, Rashere didn't specify how long it might be before those performance improvements happen, so they could be gone for a while.)

drackiller
08-29-2014, 12:36 AM
You know that is the great thing about this game it is built for all types. I do not have the speed to beat him with an assault rifle. But by using the flare pistol and a SAW I was able to beat him. You see... people like me are built for pleasure not for speed. Probably why I don't play PvP part of the game. So, this is a good expample of how the veriety of weapons cater to the different personalities.
This is also a good example of why I don't usually respond on these boards. If I said the strip above the comments is green something will crawl out of the woodwork to say it is a different color.
I was just telling my view on things in hopes that it would be helpful. I was not looking to change the world with some absolute wisdom.

You would laugh if you`ve seen how i beat him, lol. And i wasn`t criticizing you, quite the contrary, and in a previous post i actually referred to what you are talking about, it`s all about choices and different play styles.

I don`t use 90% of the weapons in this game and never will. Nothing agaisnt the Northstar Flare, i just never felt the need or urge to use it.

crazyged
08-29-2014, 03:45 AM
Good to see someone focusing on things we've been asking for.

Don't worry too much if your favorite weapon is on the list - remember, it's temporary and most of them should come back improved.

That seems like a good thing to me!

vorxdargo
08-29-2014, 04:47 AM
this is all good and stuff but please, please! fix the servers so we don't get kicked after 10-20 mins.

Stogie
09-02-2014, 12:50 PM
Someone will always think they have a better idea. I for one am behind your changes 100%. If something down the road needs further change it is good to have someone who will give it thought and come up with a win win solution.
Those guns taken out of the boxes are still laying all over the ground to just pick up.
I would rather see some of the more popular weapons coming out of the boxes rather than stuff you trip over in the maps.
And I love the idea of separating shield from weapon boxes.

Welcome to the party.

xtrahigh
09-03-2014, 06:34 PM
the vbi guns are some of my favorite but I must have my vbi smg its my favorite weapon by far

teppic
09-04-2014, 06:51 AM
Are the lockbox changes (i.e. epic guaranteed) live now?

Market
09-04-2014, 07:06 AM
Are the lockbox changes (i.e. epic guaranteed) live now?

Yep, they sure are!

2.207 patch notes (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?173362-Defiance-2.207-(hotfix)-Patch-Notes)

teppic
09-04-2014, 07:19 AM
Yep, they sure are!

2.207 patch notes (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?173362-Defiance-2.207-(hotfix)-Patch-Notes)

Thanks, thought it was today. Now I can buy a T4 lockbox!

BC001
09-04-2014, 05:09 PM
I am not so sure they are in effect yet. Just yesterday (I have not been on yet today) I checked the cost to upgrade EGO value of weapons and it was the same as always. Since the cost reduction was also supposed to be a part of the 2.207 patch it makes me suspicious about the rest of it like the lockbox changes. Maybe the patch did not take right or something.

Antavius
09-09-2014, 05:29 PM
Welcome Rashere. I can't help but think I've spoken to you on the EQ forums a time or two. However it's good to see someone who is a decent dev come over to this game and try to salvage a sinking ship. That being said, I would like to see a few changes that might translate from your EQ days to Defiance.

Raid tools: at present we only have 1 mass player event (warmaster instance not counting major arkfalls in static locations) and no means of really organizing that many players outside of the controversial (bullying) or just flat out shooting without focus.

Mini or small inventory/loadout window: Something that doesn't block the view of the world since sometimes you don't know what's going on around you when you're on one of those screens. I've been caught with my proverbial pants down thinking I was safe somewhere only to see my screen flashing red indicating I've been attacked.

Expanded co-ops or larger scale co-ops: Warmaster was a step in the right direction but I'd love to see more of this.

Rare, Epic, Legendary Specialized Weapons: Encrypted weapons that are a cut above "normal" weapons. These weapons have special names like the custom headshot bolter or Detu Ara. These weapons drop from expanded co-ops or Warmaster-type raid level events. The level of the event determines the rarity of the weapons/shields dropped.

Storable/tradeable lockboxes: Give us the option to open a lockbox now or keep it to open later. Have a limit on how many you can store of each type. It could open a new market of trade for players.

Player run store (bazaar): You should remember what this is. For those not coming from EQ or other MMO's with this feature, it's simply put, a place where players can list items for sale and post prices and not have to have an active trade window to buy/trade items.

Maybe this is a wish list doomed to be lost or forgotten.... I hope not.

Rashere
09-11-2014, 05:31 PM
Welcome Rashere. I can't help but think I've spoken to you on the EQ forums a time or two. However it's good to see someone who is a decent dev come over to this game and try to salvage a sinking ship. That being said, I would like to see a few changes that might translate from your EQ days to Defiance.

Raid tools: at present we only have 1 mass player event (warmaster instance not counting major arkfalls in static locations) and no means of really organizing that many players outside of the controversial (bullying) or just flat out shooting without focus.

Mini or small inventory/loadout window: Something that doesn't block the view of the world since sometimes you don't know what's going on around you when you're on one of those screens. I've been caught with my proverbial pants down thinking I was safe somewhere only to see my screen flashing red indicating I've been attacked.

Expanded co-ops or larger scale co-ops: Warmaster was a step in the right direction but I'd love to see more of this.

Rare, Epic, Legendary Specialized Weapons: Encrypted weapons that are a cut above "normal" weapons. These weapons have special names like the custom headshot bolter or Detu Ara. These weapons drop from expanded co-ops or Warmaster-type raid level events. The level of the event determines the rarity of the weapons/shields dropped.

Storable/tradeable lockboxes: Give us the option to open a lockbox now or keep it to open later. Have a limit on how many you can store of each type. It could open a new market of trade for players.

Player run store (bazaar): You should remember what this is. For those not coming from EQ or other MMO's with this feature, it's simply put, a place where players can list items for sale and post prices and not have to have an active trade window to buy/trade items.

Maybe this is a wish list doomed to be lost or forgotten.... I hope not.

Thanks! I actually have a lot of that on my hit list already from the investigation I've been doing.

Rashere

Chump Norris
09-11-2014, 07:20 PM
Rashere would you please look at removing Acc and Recoil from future Bloodhound pulls? I know any we already have are stuck with the rolls but they seem pointless on a Bloodhound.

QipQip
09-11-2014, 08:25 PM
If you're looking into moving some old EQ options into Defiance. Please think about adding a reduce spell effects option.(weapon effects for Defi) Many weapons like the BMG,Volge,and Defiant Few are just blinding and headache inducing in large groups.We have asked for this in the past but it has fallen on deaf ears.This seems like a simple fix compared to adding new raids or a bazaar but would greatly increase quality of life in the game.

vorxdargo
09-15-2014, 02:09 PM
seems this is a good place to make requests for the team to see, my request is elemental swords (charge blades) just changing the color does literally nothing but makes it look different when you slash. being able to have a Lightning or Fire sword would be cool.

Ashlocke
09-16-2014, 02:36 PM
I've given up on this but since we've got a new guy, I figure I would give this one last try:

Bring back the Assault Rifle Tactical Scope:

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk6/losrosarose/ARTacticalScope_zpsd861d779.jpg


And the Pistol Advanced Scope:

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk6/losrosarose/PistolAdvancedScope_zps4c0d496d.jpg

Thanks, that is all.

Antavius
09-16-2014, 05:36 PM
If you're looking into moving some old EQ options into Defiance. Please think about adding a reduce spell effects option.(weapon effects for Defi) Many weapons like the BMG,Volge,and Defiant Few are just blinding and headache inducing in large groups.We have asked for this in the past but it has fallen on deaf ears.This seems like a simple fix compared to adding new raids or a bazaar but would greatly increase quality of life in the game.

This is something I neglected to request as it was very late when I posted my wish list. Chat is still an issue but at least it recognizes more of my keystrokes as opposed to before.

A more advanced graphics control system such as what we have in EQ. Something we can fine tune to reduce lag on our end which I used to great extent in EQ and allowed me to run multiple windows of the game on one comp.

I'd like to know what Rashere has in mind for game fixes.

Oh yeah one last thing.

Vanishing vehicle bug

Baines
09-21-2014, 01:04 PM
Rashere would you please look at removing Acc and Recoil from future Bloodhound pulls? I know any we already have are stuck with the rolls but they seem pointless on a Bloodhound.

It might be nice to see all the Synergies and bonuses re-evaluated. Some combinations are nearly worthless and some may be worthless. Some others are extremely situational, being near or completely worthless for some players but potentially good for others.

For example, does Rolling Thunder do anything for a BMG? The first two bonuses are increased mag size while the third is increased hip fire accuracy. (BMGs can't get the fourth due to the lack of sight mods, but that would be more hip fire accuracy.) If it does anything, then it should be made clear in-game. If it doesn't, then BMGs shouldn't get it in the first place.

Do people bother with two weapon Loadout synergies? You have to have two weapons with the same synergy, both have to make sense in a loadout set, the effect has to be better than whatever mod-based Synergy alternatives you might find, and the weapons themselves with the Loadout synergy need to be at least equal to the effectiveness of the other weapons you have available. If any of those conditions aren't met, then you are better off not bothering. I don't know that I have ever had a point where all those conditions were met for my arsenal.

Purple bonuses are all a bit hit-and-miss on usefulness, but the 25% Stowed Weapon Reload in particular is extremely situational because its effectiveness depends entirely on what weapon you intend to pair with the weapon that actually has the bonus, making it a lot like the Loadout synergies.

It would also be nice if we could see more data for weapons in-game. Is a boosted crit chance good for a Detonator? I don't know, because the game doesn't show Crit chances for Detonators. Can Detonators even crit? What is +5 Falloff Damage in practical terms? (I know what it does, but I don't know enough to know whether I'd rather have that or boosted damage, because the game doesn't tell you what the "+5" itself translates to.)

King Kuder
09-21-2014, 06:00 PM
PVP needs some TLC.

Like spawning after death with 2/5 grenades.
New maps.
Vehicles are pathetically balanced against actual players. Speaking of, vehicles need to be upgraded for expert events in coop.
Advanced weapons could be placed on pvp maps too.

As for PvE, fix everything the other guys destroyed these past 9 months. The Warmaster and rewards we get for all events. There is barely any incentive to continue playing anymore.

RAGEFIGHTER
09-21-2014, 06:57 PM
finaly some good changes when it will bee in na and eu servers ??

Altras
09-21-2014, 09:26 PM
Hello Rashere, I like your ideas! Here's my 2 cents :)
-More clan ranks and better rewards. Once you hit 3600, there's not much else to do besides help everyone with pursuits,PvP and warmaster. And the rewards for accomplishing max rank aren't very rewarding.
-Vehicle health. Ever since threat levels, Cerberus have been completely neutered. Please restore its glory.
-Like many others have said, more events like warmaster, and the "new boss" being released in Aftermath update. Keep them coming! Throw specific legendaries you can only win in said instances so there's a point to doing specific ones.
-Can the PC's friends list please be unlimited :)
-Unlimited wave coops. Fight wave after wave of whichever enemy and map your on ,( gunslinger maps?) Every 2 rounds survived, for 20 rounds, get a blue. Every 5 rounds pass 20 to 50 get a purple. And every 10 rounds pass 50 for an oj. This would require teamwork and planning team builds for the instance to get far, I think it'd be fun, and should be rewarding :). Possibly throw in different faction arenas to earn the rep, instead of doing the same dailies over and over.

I'm sure you have a lot on your plate Rashere, but I look forward to your work with Defiance. Best of luck!

beerninja
09-22-2014, 06:40 AM
Thanks for your post! Any chance you can look into increase cerberus collision damage? The Vehicular Manslaughter achievement/trophy (for running people over) is not currently possible unless someone takes off their shield.

Antavius
09-26-2014, 07:37 PM
Hello Rashere, I like your ideas! Here's my 2 cents :)
-More clan ranks and better rewards. Once you hit 3600, there's not much else to do besides help everyone with pursuits,PvP and warmaster. And the rewards for accomplishing max rank aren't very rewarding.
-Vehicle health. Ever since threat levels, Cerberus have been completely neutered. Please restore its glory.
-Like many others have said, more events like warmaster, and the "new boss" being released in Aftermath update. Keep them coming! Throw specific legendaries you can only win in said instances so there's a point to doing specific ones.

I agree with this

-Can the PC's friends list please be unlimited :)
-Unlimited wave coops. Fight wave after wave of whichever enemy and map your on ,( gunslinger maps?) Every 2 rounds survived, for 20 rounds, get a blue. Every 5 rounds pass 20 to 50 get a purple. And every 10 rounds pass 50 for an oj. This would require teamwork and planning team builds for the instance to get far, I think it'd be fun, and should be rewarding :). Possibly throw in different faction arenas to earn the rep, instead of doing the same dailies over and over.

I'm sure you have a lot on your plate Rashere, but I look forward to your work with Defiance. Best of luck!

I like your idea of an "endurance" arena/co-op.

I've done endurance style arenas and matches, I must say they are quite exciting. The one thing I have to wonder about is the number of mobs per wave. Apex/Ark/Formidable mobs are tough and if you impose a player death rate limit like in the casti arenas then it would really get hard. The idea is sound and I love it but it needs to be possible for normal players to accomplish it while still providing a challenge to "elite" players.

Reminds me of the EQ anniversary endurance groups/raids for the gear augs. ;) (loved dragons3 and giants3)

DEATHBRINGER210
10-02-2014, 11:33 AM
JUST some thoughts i had about these guns
VOT Mazu Blast Rifle a little more base damage
VOT Bolter more crit and more base damage
VOT Meteor Bolter more crit more base damage
VOT Blast Rifle more damage
VOT Rebounder Cannon how about making it manuel denote bombs remove blast radius rolls
VOT Fragger more mag
VOT Swarm Cannon to much blast radius tighten the radius
VOT Auto Fragger a lil faster base fire rate more damage
VOT Outbreaker more mag more damage
VOT Breaker Cannon mag rolls
VOT Infector more damage fire rate, more range
VOT Longshot Cannon nothing is wrong with it
VOT Afflictor more damage more fire rate,more range
VBI SMG a lil more damage more mag
VBI INF-27 Immunizer a lil more damage , a lil more range , spawn a lil more bugs and just a lil more base fire rate
VBI AR1 Armada not one thing wrong with it, more damage , remove blast radius
VBI Short-Barrel Shotgun faster reloads , or more damage,
VBI Auto-Shotgun fire rate , more damage
VBI Guided Launcher nothing is wrong with it , maybe the blast radius , i dont see the point on this weapon
VBI LM-43 Thunder faster reload
VBI LM-12 Rocker more damage
VBI Semi-Auto Sniper Rifle more crit , lil more base damage
VBI Shotgun more base mag faster rate of fire
FRC Birdshot Pump nothing wrong it , it is what it is
FRC Magnum fast reload , fire rate, alot more damage
FRC Sub-Carbine a lil more crit damage
FRC Particle Repeater more mag more crit
FRC Northstar Flare more mag no recoil rolls , more damage
FRC Nomad SMG more damage
FRC Rocket Pod nothing wrong with it, more base mag
FRC Sawed-off Scattergun more base
FRC Innoculator more range fire rate
FRC Incubator more fire rate more range
FRC Interceptor more damage bombs take to long to explode
VOT Auto Lobber more mag lil more damage
VOT Rebound Lobber make it manuel denote bombs
FRC Crash Boomer more damage faster fire rate
FRC Matchlock Boomer faster fire rate
VOT Mass cannon remove all blast radius tighten the blast area make it smaller , remove the extra base rocket fore mag and bring back the 4 rockets coming down when it detonates .
DEFIANT FEW CRIMEFIGTER NEEDS A NERF lower the damage and put a cool down on charge time, get rid of recoils rolls on it

hiban
10-02-2014, 11:46 AM
The Crimefighter would need to be removed. For some reason, that weapon causes a massive amount of lag.

DEATHBRINGER210
10-02-2014, 11:54 AM
The Crimefighter would need to be removed. For some reason, that weapon causes a massive amount of lag.
all boomers and bmgs cause lag

J8 Sky
10-02-2014, 12:15 PM
all boomers and bmgs cause lag

If you say Boomers cause lag, than you are saying it's ALL explosive weapons that cause lag. boomers don't have a "Flashy" bright explosion effect, they don't even have Nano effects either.

DEATHBRINGER210
10-03-2014, 03:22 AM
dets , bmgs and rockets cause lag , better for you?

Atticus Batman
10-03-2014, 03:29 AM
dets , bmgs and rockets cause lag , better for you?

then so do Crimefighters. :)

DEATHBRINGER210
10-03-2014, 03:34 AM
hell ya they do ! alot of laaaaaagggggggggggggg, for this det/shotty hybrid weapon