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Scapes
10-08-2014, 12:12 PM
http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/06/Defiance_blog_header_4_720x332.jpg (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)

With our Aftermath update, we will be making modifications to the behaviors of some beloved-yet-broken features surrounding reloading weapons. Reloading contributes significantly to the rhythm of a gunfight and contributes the rest and fermatas that keep things interesting. However, there have been some long-standing inconsistencies in how reload works, and we’re going to even those out.

In Defiance, there has always been a functional minimum reload time. This one-second reload acts as an unbreakable barrier, like the speed of light, preventing players from getting lightning fast reloads. “But wait!”, you say, “what about the zero-reload Zagger!” And you would be right to ask! There’s a long-standing bug that allowed guns to be reloaded instantly if you modded it to be exactly a 0 second reload time. Anything else would properly respect the 1 second minimum reload time, though the UI could incorrectly display less than 1 second. This led to extremely overpowered weapons that others could never compete with. With the Aftermath update, we’re fixing both of those issues.

...

Read the full article on the website. (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)

Nefarious
10-08-2014, 12:49 PM
“what about the zero-reload Zagger!”


http://i.imgur.com/179Jifz.gif

Arran
10-08-2014, 12:50 PM
Goes to grab pop corn ;) this should be intresting.

Altras
10-08-2014, 12:55 PM
I have mixed feelings about what I'm reading. While I agree Saw'd Offs are obnoxiously broken and need to enforce a reload animation, I don't think other weapons should suffer for it.

"To address these problems while keeping Preparedness useful, we’ve changed its functionality to tie it to your equipped weapon’s reload."

-So if I have a LMG stowed while I'm using a weapon with much lower mag capacity, will it take forever to reload that LMG? What's the exact percentage?

"Extended magazines took longer to reload and therefore meant they could trigger reload bonuses less often."

-So does this mean the animation on affected weapons will be increased? Say for Pump Shotguns with a higher mag? Or is this strictly all Saw'd Offs?

shawshank1198
10-08-2014, 12:58 PM
:D:):D:):D:):pThis is AMAZING! Can't wait for a certain 360 Shadow War participant(or 2) to find this out. Wont be able to rack up 50 kills with no deaths anymore. I guess we will see how good they really are. RIP Zagger freaks....

SirServed
10-08-2014, 01:23 PM
This will be interesting to see.

BlackTalons
10-08-2014, 01:26 PM
YEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSS! HELLLL YEESSSS!

Great work guys!

Don't forget to take a look at the 25% mag reload on melee kill and stowed weapon reload on kill rolls. The first is not working properly with some shotguns, reloading less than 25%, and the second may need a rebalance after this patch. Also, the article seems to be missing an image?


In the image here, our intrepid APS deliveryman has just finished reloading his Zagger, and therefore partially reloaded the weapon he has stowed.

Edit: Just noticed


This means that the beloved Zagger is going to be updated. With the reload limit visible and strictly enforced, it’s clear that the Zagger no longer benefits from its uncommon or legendary rolls. As such, we’ve altered those bonuses to turn the Zagger into a weapon that captures it original flavor and keeps it as a best-in-category sawed-off shotgun. The uncommon reload bonus have been transformed into a flat damage bonus, and the legendary bonus has been updated into an additional two slugs in the clip. This means that all legendary Zaggers may fire two shots before requiring their one-second reload. The legendary Zagger continues to be the best weapon of its kind.

http://media.tumblr.com/ba2d9f7cd9fd6126432f4729bbeb7ecf/tumblr_inline_mq5ywwkqMv1s3j507.gif

More of that please!

Holy Bahamut3
10-08-2014, 01:42 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/a21cbb0bdfcf1ec027dfa32541d28bf2/tumblr_inline_mvwsguyX2r1r9ixyz.gif

J8 Sky
10-08-2014, 01:48 PM
Hmmm, :confused: So let me get this straight, please correct me if i'm wrong.

1) Patch will be nerf'n the Preparedness to an almost useless perk.

2) All guns with less than 1 sec reload will be nerfed. (especially "single reload" shotty,detonator,rockets,sawedoff, etc.)

3) Zagger will now have one less usable mod, since the only two mods (mag,reload) does not affect in any way.
(mag+%40 x original 2 mag = 0)

So instead of JUST fixing the Zagger, we get a Afternerf update ? :(


edit: I really hope not >.< or half of my daily used weapons will collect dust, electro SMG, Boomer, sludge, Shotty.....

Kuurong
10-08-2014, 01:59 PM
"To address these problems while keeping Preparedness useful, we’ve changed its functionality to tie it to your equipped weapon’s reload."

-So if I have a LMG stowed while I'm using a weapon with much lower mag capacity, will it take forever to reload that LMG? What's the exact percentage?


1) Patch will be nerf'n the Preparedness to an almost useless perk.

If you look at the article on the website, link he posted, at Level 3 it is 50% every 5 seconds on a full reload, that could just be a place holder but they at least will probably test it out on PTS. Hopefully I helped out.

jay ellis
10-08-2014, 02:07 PM
Whats your plan for all of our quartermaster guns with multiple reload rolls? This will make all of them worthless. I'm not just talking about zaggers, you destroyed those with the cooldown on full reload effects. I'm talking about qm sludges, bonfires, incinerators, assault rifles, smgs, bug guns, and on and on. The minimum reload on every gun is going to be 1 sec? Does anyone think anything through before you guys go ahead and make changes to game mechanics? Do any of you actually play this game on a regular basis? I feel like I know twenty arkhunters who understand game mechanics better than your whole dev team.The faster reload on certain guns makes them more desirable in certain situations. Changes like these eliminate some weapons as options and pretty soon we all have the same loadout. I realize the zagger was an issue, but now youve ruined purple rolls, ruined perks and ruined quartermaster, instead of putting a damn animation on one gun. You guys are hilarious. If 75% of your player base wasn't playing that crap bungie put out, this place would be swarming with angry posts.

PiccolaRivolta
10-08-2014, 02:08 PM
What about those who have spent 1000 arkforge like me to get a reload mastery bonus? They will have to keep their reload rolls? Meh.
Plus how do you even find a orange or purple zagger in first place.. You just can't.
A blue zagger will equal to a blue nano fragger or any sawn off. Don't say zagger will still be the best of its category.

RevJaye
10-08-2014, 02:12 PM
This is Pathetic. the Zagger is now no better than the grn "Sawed off scattergun" you get in game. If your over 1000 ego it has a +5 rounds as the white roll, or any of the pre patch sawed offs that had a mag roll for mastery and now have 10 shots in the mag. Thanks once again for putting PVP, that maybe 5% of players play, over top of the game itself. so wonderful to see all the guns that have been broken since Launch. Like in Beta how Trion was SO pround of the Infector line. now out of all of the infecters people use 2 originals and 1 from WM. You'd think they would take that as a hint but we who play the actual game and not pvp I guess just don't count. Ive played since beta and I completed my pvp pursuits (only to hope to never have to go back in there with the cheating players). But every gun minus 2 or 3 that's been used like crazy or had millions of scrip spent on them get nerfed into oblivion. Do they actually think anyone will use the Zagger after this is released? No they wont =2 rounds does do anything when a gun you get for doing a mission in Madera gives you +5 as the first roll.

Thank you to the Whiny PVP players who couldn't compete because of the zagger. guess what, youll hate something else next week. Too many guns have been killed by a very small percentage of people that play PVP on an MMO. I thought we played in game and that's what the benefits of the weapons were for. They even had the Defiant Few Guns killed as soon as the came out. lasted 2 days. We get harder enemies so new guns then the guns get turned to crap.

All I Ask of the Dev Team is please remember this is a MMO not a PVP game. 95-99% of us DO NOT play PVP, so the small percentage that does should not be able to dictate how our guns are used. You guys have always done this. Players right now are at an all time low. everytime you do this stuff people leave. Please do not kill this game over PVP.

richardkrainium
10-08-2014, 02:21 PM
:D:):D:):D:):pThis is AMAZING! Can't wait for a certain 360 Shadow War participant(or 2) to find this out. Wont be able to rack up 50 kills with no deaths anymore. I guess we will see how good they really are. RIP Zagger freaks....

naa...he'll still use his boomer and surge bolter because you dont need to aim those or have any skill to use them

arekesh
10-08-2014, 02:26 PM
Who the hell still uses a zagger in pvp? noobs? After all the perks were nerfed if you get killed by a zagger in pvp you might not be cut for it, there are far more op guns like the slugger and charge snipers that will never be properly addressed, Instead they just keep messing with the zagger and a bunch of other legitimate weapons that had good rolls, and were useful in pve.

hardy83
10-08-2014, 02:39 PM
http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/06/Defiance_blog_header_4_720x332.jpg (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)

Awwww. Look at those nice HD textures in that promo pic.
Let me just log into the game and see those nice visuals in-ga...ohhhhh wait. You don't have those in-game, because....Reasons. lol

I love it when marketing material isn't fully representative of a game.

Oh sorry, you're talking about weapons and stuff. I'll be quiet now. :P

richardkrainium
10-08-2014, 02:42 PM
all of this nerfing/stealing from your customers wouldnt be needed if you guy would either fix pvp or remove it entirely

J8 Sky
10-08-2014, 02:42 PM
http://forums.defiance.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7745&d=1412804117
http://forums.defiance.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=7746&d=1412804118

Farewell to "the game of the year 2014*" :p

*quoted

hardy83
10-08-2014, 02:52 PM
all of this nerfing/stealing from your customers wouldnt be needed if you guy would either fix pvp or remove it entirely

I wish they would remove PvP. Or instanced PvP to be specific.
Incorporate those maps into the overworld somehow and just keep Shadowars.
Normalize PvP damage while in Shadow Wars against other players and be done with it. Only let perks and player skill be the deciding factor in PvP.

One of the reasons I hate PvP in gear-based-progressions MMOs is that the disparity becomes so much that it's just a massive turn off for new players against "veterans" with high level weapons/gear with the best stats/etcs.

Though I would hardly call changes like this "stealing". The nature of MMOs is things change.

If you bought a vehicle, then they took it away from you. THAT would be stealing.
If you bought arkforge and used it to reroll weapons and they nerf something, that's just the nature of the MMO beast.

If they remove something I would expect compensation in some form, but not for stuff being nerfed.

But yeah. Instanced PvP in this game sucks, but Shadow Wars could be something special if it was the only form of PvP.
It would have a one-up on games like Destiny and CoD because they can't do large scale PvP fights in the open world, and if it's the only form of PvP, then it would be almost guaranteed to be high in population. No 5 vs 5 Shadow Wars. :P

Blackwolfe
10-08-2014, 02:57 PM
I am so happy I leveled my sawn-off shotgun skill to 20 before this change. It would have taken ages without preparedness :P

hardy83
10-08-2014, 03:03 PM
I am so happy I leveled my sawn-off shotgun skill to 20 before this change. It would have taken ages without preparedness :P

That sawed off that shoots explosives was really helpful to me when leveling that skill.
I forget what is was called. Courier? I forget.

Nefarious
10-08-2014, 03:05 PM
:D:):D:):D:):pThis is AMAZING! Can't wait for a certain 360 Shadow War participant(or 2) to find this out. Wont be able to rack up 50 kills with no deaths anymore. I guess we will see how good they really are. RIP Zagger freaks....

Noooo! No-not again....Ner..ff..fffffff! Im changing from Nefarious to Nerrrrfarrriouss.. Something is wrong with the game nerrrff it.. I thought it was all over...but something is a anew...god why!! aaaaaahhhhhhhrrrgghh!
http://media.digititles.com/content/4911f1a0ea532aaa644823593894ecfa/11-1374323865.gif








http://media.tumblr.com/6f21b97f71920ad23d24b2e0bf16d5de/tumblr_inline_n0zpvj3G4L1qmi1x8.gif








https://s-media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/c6/55/c9/c655c9c47c117591eaf0632b51dfd187.jpg


They will switch to Trapper BMG and blast you with whatever while you are in a 5 second Bio effect. No one will be able to combat anyone closer then 15 yards without getting Trapper zapped.

Want to save everyone a future headache Trion? Make it so that once the link is 'severed' between the Trapper and target then so should the Bio effect which it causes... The way it is now it takes one quick tap auto hit zap to put a target in Bio. And that's gonna be the next "thing".

But before I point out things about the Trapper lets look at what other weapons come close to doing what the Trapper does and why they are balanced out pretty good and the Trapper isn't.

The Insulator. Its the only Infector that comes close to needing to truly be aimed. It shoots in slow 3 round bursts and causes no infection dmg, let alone that it needs 5 needles to hit (2 shots) to cause any kind of dmg from spawning bugs and even then its only 2 that spawn. So for it being able to slow players down with instant Bio effect on hit it really does have its downsides with slow rate of fire with pause between shots and little to no damage behind it.

Charge weapons such as the Particle Ultimag and Surge Nano Fragger. They are offset by needing a full charge for them to get the nano effect, and in this case them being Bio. And when they do if Im not mistaking the nano effect caused by these weapons is 3 seconds long. Between that and the time of effective charge allows targets to have some maneuverability against it.

Bio Grenades and Sludge Rocket Launchers. They have their good and bad sides. The good is that they leave big pools of Bio to snare enemies. The bad is that it also neutralizes the same ground covered for the shooter as they can be snared in their own Bio pool.

Then we have the Trapper BMG. Takes one quick easy hit zap to put a target in 5 seconds of Bio effect. No charge needed, no aim, no pause between shots, no neutralizing pool, no sort of prep time or influential factors when using it. Just a quick 1-2% of BMG zap to put a Bio nano effect on. Now there is nothing wrong with the Trapper trapping but it should only last as long as the link stays connected. Its all to easy to just zap then switch weapons to shoot a guy while they cant move. You can force players to continuously needing to roll and try to get out the Bio all while you can just keep doing little zaps to keep them in that 5 second Bio or they can stand still and try to shoot you, either way they are put in a huge disadvantage from so little done. Its like pinning a fly's wings down and tearing off its legs or something. You can torture other players with it.

And as long as Im talking about BMGs I think that BMGs in general is that they should not be able to self heal. (Not a popular opinion, I know) But we have heal stims now. And in more cases then not its always been ridiculously easy to just to heal yourself with a BMG faster then what the shots damaging you are doing. In Explosions 101 Expert I just run ahead of everyone to arm the bombs all while getting shot at by countless TL 10 Raiders and finish that level way faster then I should as Im just healing myself with a BMG while running ahead through the crowd of enemies. And the same thing in PvP as its easy if you get shot to run-hop around while self healing with a high cap shield equipped. Im all for players healing others and being the 'healer' of the group but having your own self healing generator equipped takes away from that role. It would be tons cooler to see a player in PvP in the back of the action healing his/her teammates (which is something Ive only seen twice ever.) then seeing individuals hopping around healing themselves. The healers would be a high threat to take out in PvP as they would be taking on the less traveled pinnacle role as a healer but that unique opportunity to take lead in such a role is non existent.

Blackwolfe
10-08-2014, 03:06 PM
That sawed off that shoots explosives was really helpful to me when leveling that skill.
I forget what is was called. Courier? I forget.

Yep, I leveled my sawn-off skill with dual Couriers and preparedness.

Bonehead
10-08-2014, 04:23 PM
1) Patch will be nerf'n the Preparedness to an almost useless perk.



That's how I read it. I would have left out the almost part though.

Bonehead
10-08-2014, 04:29 PM
Farewell to "the game of the year 2014*" :p

*quoted

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/giphy2_zps0fcc3a88.gif

JadedSinn
10-08-2014, 04:49 PM
:: munches on popcorn :: hehe hehehe heheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehe got to love all the hateraid muahahahaha i saw this comeing :) no complants from me. i like the idea of the zagger being fixed so it is forced to reload. insted of every one haveing a 250 clip zagger.

oh and at the person that wanted to know where to get an OJ zagger. simple. BEAT THE WAR MASTER ! :)

jay ellis
10-08-2014, 05:07 PM
:: munches on popcorn :: hehe hehehe heheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehe got to love all the hateraid muahahahaha i saw this comeing :) no complants from me. i like the idea of the zagger being fixed so it is forced to reload. insted of every one haveing a 250 clip zagger.

oh and at the person that wanted to know where to get an OJ zagger. simple. BEAT THE WAR MASTER ! :)

I don't think most people will be pissed about the changes to the zagger, its the fact that the "fix" has destroyed perks, rolls, a synergy, and tons of guns. The zaggers true potential was not to kill but to regain ego, they already neutered that. I have no idea why they're doing this.
There used to be sawed offs with + mag rolls, they took that away, now they added that roll to zaggers. I dont think anyone on the dev team realizes exactly how these "fixes" will really effect gameplay. They just keep poking and hoping, breaking things as they go.

Bonehead
10-08-2014, 05:12 PM
I have no idea why they're doing this.


Yea, I got used to that feeling after they nerfed the firestorm and thundershock to dust back in the olden days.

jay ellis
10-08-2014, 05:27 PM
And another thing, I absolutely love how they call 0.0 reload a bug, and act all excited about their latest round of inventory killing changes. Its not a bug. Each roll, synergy and mod takes a percentage of reload away. If you get to 100% you're at 0.0. If they didnt make the set rolls on a zagger All Reload none of this recent crap would be necessary.
There will still be people in pvp going 46-0. There just wont be as many because more people will go play something else.
If they make new guns with this new update, they better make them totally useless at first and then buff them later. If they make anything even remotely useful my buddies will use them to slaughter every newb in freight yard until they go the way of the bloodhound and gangbuster. These guys never learn.

Chump Norris
10-08-2014, 05:29 PM
..........

Nefarious
10-08-2014, 05:50 PM
So the Zagger has a special OJ roll of +2 to mag... So it has 2 shots instead of 1 like the other Sawed offs. Were as before it pretty much had a 200 size mag because it never went into any kind of reloading animation and left all other weapons in its class and ones from others severally outmatched. And just because its getting toned down but at the same time still benefits from something special and is no longer a 200 mag sized Sawed off the game is now ruined? It wasn't in any way ruined before because of how the Zagger worked with just running enemies down with it?

And Preparedness. You can do some cheap stuff with that. Off the top of my head I can think of...

2 Rocket Launchers/2 Big Boomers.
+
Overcharge, Explosive Onslaught, Killing Spree, Mad Bomber, Deadly Cascade, Preparedness.
=
never run out of ammo ever and maintain a continuous Overcharge while killing everything.

Now will the new Preparedness work with something like Mad Bomber? Will that % of the instant reload on kill from Mad Bomber work towards stowed weapon with Preparedness. Maybe, and if so that's something that would make Preparedness still good.

Bonehead
10-08-2014, 05:57 PM
So the Zagger has a special OJ roll of +2 to mag... So it has 2 shots instead of 1 like the other Sawed offs. Were as before it pretty much had a 200 size mag because it never went into any kind of reloading animation and left all other weapons in its class and ones from others severally outmatched. And just because its getting toned down but at the same time still benefits from something special and is no longer a 200 mag sized Sawed off the game is now ruined? It wasn't in any way ruined before because of how the Zagger worked with just running enemies down with it?

And Preparedness. You can do some cheap stuff with that. Off the top of my head I can think of...

2 Rocket Launchers/2 Big Boomers.
+
Overcharge, Explosive Onslaught, Killing Spree, Mad Bomber, Deadly Cascade, Preparedness.
=
never run out of ammo ever and maintain a continuous Overcharge while killing everything.

Now will the new Preparedness work with something like Mad Bomber? Will that % of the instant reload on kill from Mad Bomber work towards stowed weapon with Preparedness. Maybe, and if so that's something that would make Preparedness still good.

Preparedness, if they stick to their plan, will only work if you reload the weapon you are using. That makes it pretty worthless to me anymore. Two launchers of any kind that you have to reload manually, defeat the old purpose of preparedness.

Nefarious
10-08-2014, 06:05 PM
"Preparedness now reloads a percentage of your stowed weapon’s clip each time you fully reload the weapon in your hands."

So what Im asking is if I get a kill with a Crash Boomer while having Mad Bomber or Shock Trooper perks equipped and my weapon in my hands gains that % or instant reload from a kill will that with Preparedness take that reload % from the weapon in my hands add to my stowed weapon? I ask because with Mad Bomber/Shock Trooper I would be reloading my weapon through kills gained and not manually be reloading my weapon. Will these perk reloads work with Preparedness?

Chump Norris
10-08-2014, 06:06 PM
..........

Bonehead
10-08-2014, 06:07 PM
"Preparedness now reloads a percentage of your stowed weapon’s clip each time you fully reload the weapon in your hands."

So what Im asking is if I get a kill with a Crash Boomer while having Mad Bomber or Shock Trooper perks equipped and my weapon in my hands gains that % or instant reload from a kill will that with Preparedness take that % from the weapon in my hands add to my stowed weapon. I ask because with Mad Bomber/Shock Trooper I would be reloading my weapon through kills gained and not manually be reloading my weapon. Will these perk reloads work with Preparedness?

No they will work in spite of the new preparedness perk. Preparedness, in its new form, does nothing unless you reload the gun you are holding.

Nefarious
10-08-2014, 06:14 PM
No they will work in spite of the new preparedness perk. Preparedness, in its new form, does nothing unless you reload the gun you are holding.

Yeah but with something like Mad Bomber/Shock Trooper on kill your weapon in your hand automatically reloads. Will those instant reloads from kills add % to stowed weapon while using Preparedness? If so then it would be good to use in Explosive builds then being able to alternate between your weapons.

Bonehead
10-08-2014, 06:17 PM
Yeah but with something like Mad Bomber/Shock Trooper on kill your weapon in your hand automatically reloads. Will those instant reloads from kills add % to stowed weapon while using Preparedness? If so then it would be good to use in Explosive builds then being able to alternate between your weapons.

Good point Neff. Gonna need a dev to answer that one, or wait and see. If you get the kill you don't need to switch though, and if you don't, you have to reload for prep to do anything at all.

Nefarious
10-08-2014, 06:21 PM
I get that you are happy about it because you are one of the main anti Zagger cry babies. The problem is they let people dump forge and time in to their Zaggers before "fixing" it.

We all know what weapons are over powered. That's easy to see. If Vegas had odds they would say that the Zagger would eventually get fixed considering how it worked. We all dropped Ark Forge into things that didn't work out. I recently expressed on how I spent over a 1000 AF on weapons that I prepped to Epic and aimed to upgrade them to OJ with the 1 time use of the rarity upgrade all for when we were to be able to change bonus rolls and synergies on guns. But I didn't flip my lid when finding out that was no longer in the plans as I knew I was taking a chance on doing it. Its easy to see how changing bonus rolls could cause a problem and on how it might not happen, but if it were I was ready to cash in and make all kinds of crazy guns. But...I lost out. It didn't happen and for good reason as it would of made more problems.

Nefarious
10-08-2014, 06:32 PM
Good point Neff. Gonna need a dev to answer that one, or wait and see. If you get the kill you don't need to switch though, and if you don't, you have to reload for prep to do anything at all.

But that's not always the case. For instance at a High Level Minor Hellbug Arkfall and Im using a pair of Rocket Launchers. Well not everything is going to die in 1 hit. Warriors, Archers, and Blast Pods will take a few depending on how many are in the blast radius for Deadly Cascade. It would be a lot easier to maintain Overcharge with Explosive Onslaught+Killing Spree if a kill in between added to stowed weapon as I can quickly then switch out and try to maintain my Ego Power going instead of not and needing to manually reload weapon in hand for stowed weapon with Preparedness to benefit.

Right now with something like this and Preparedness you don't need a kill and its a lot easier of needing to switch out if need be. Nothing will really change with doing something like this as you need a pretty high TL not to thrash everything with Rockets buts its still something worth doing but with buffers now in place to ease it up a bit.

arekesh
10-08-2014, 06:56 PM
So the Zagger has a special OJ roll of +2 to mag... So it has 2 shots instead of 1 like the other Sawed offs. Were as before it pretty much had a 200 size mag because it never went into any kind of reloading animation and left all other weapons in its class and ones from others severally outmatched. And just because its getting toned down but at the same time still benefits from something special and is no longer a 200 mag sized Sawed off the game is now ruined? It wasn't in any way ruined before because of how the Zagger worked with just running enemies down with it?

And Preparedness. You can do some cheap stuff with that. Off the top of my head I can think of...

2 Rocket Launchers/2 Big Boomers.
+
Overcharge, Explosive Onslaught, Killing Spree, Mad Bomber, Deadly Cascade, Preparedness.
=
never run out of ammo ever and maintain a continuous Overcharge while killing everything.

Now will the new Preparedness work with something like Mad Bomber? Will that % of the instant reload on kill from Mad Bomber work towards stowed weapon with Preparedness. Maybe, and if so that's something that would make Preparedness still good.

That should be nerfed, just use your default pistol with one round, that should finally make you happy.

BlackTalons
10-08-2014, 07:10 PM
Take for example a long reload gun, lets say a pump shotgun with extended mag. Couple it with a low reload gun with rapid mag mod, IE: any SMG. There, you got a functional combo that works well enough with the new preparedness perk. Whenever you need to reload your shotty you simply switch, use the other weapon till you reload once or twice and then switch back. Works with other long reload stuff like BMG, LMGs, Sawed off, etc. Skipping the reload process, a moment of vulnerability in any gunfight, is plain old cheating in my book. How hard is to take some cover to reload and recharge shields for two seconds?

Chump Norris
10-08-2014, 07:37 PM
..........

DEATHBRINGER210
10-08-2014, 07:46 PM
great ,messed up again i see

Amack
10-08-2014, 07:53 PM
http://i62.tinypic.com/9r4o4n.jpg

Nefarious
10-08-2014, 08:09 PM
That should be nerfed, just use your default pistol with one round, that should finally make you happy.

What? I use this set up. But if for whatever reason if something like Explosive Onslaught gets some kind of cool down I wont be surprised.

And besides this is the least of worries. I just found out that Ghostbusters is getting a 'Reboot', meaning rewrite of franchise acting as if the original never existed. And they are doing it with a all female cast. This is insane and Im sure that Trion held back on their Zagger announcement to be released to be lined up of when this news got out to lessen the blow of things. So I imagine the Zagger was planed to be fixed for awhile but they were just waiting to do it at the same day as the ****ty Ghostbusters announcement.

MandyMae
10-08-2014, 08:09 PM
Its funny how the Gang Buster was nerfed (fixed) in less than 2 weeks, but taken a year+ to nerf (fix) the 0.0 reload animation on sawed off shotguns, wonder what the intent is on this?

OttawaREDBLACKS
10-08-2014, 08:24 PM
all great news but when am I actually going to be able to play without constant lag that has been going on almost none stop for the last 3 months.

stoodakiss
10-08-2014, 08:47 PM
http://www.gamespot.com/videos/defiance-player-vs-player-developer-diary/2300-6398251/

MadDogTremor
10-08-2014, 09:03 PM
Awwww. Look at those nice HD textures in that promo pic.
Let me just log into the game and see those nice visuals in-ga...ohhhhh wait. You don't have those in-game, because....Reasons. lol

I love it when marketing material isn't fully representative of a game.

Oh sorry, you're talking about weapons and stuff. I'll be quiet now. :P
Really? I'm on PC...and that's exactly how my graphics look. It helps that I have an HD TV as my monitor, I'm sure.

jay ellis
10-08-2014, 09:28 PM
http://www.gamespot.com/videos/defiance-player-vs-player-developer-diary/2300-6398251/

Someone got lost along the way. This looks like a game I'd really like to play.

Ned Kelly
10-08-2014, 11:08 PM
http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/06/Defiance_blog_header_4_720x332.jpg (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)

With our Aftermath update, we will be making modifications to the behaviors of some beloved-yet-broken features surrounding reloading weapons. Reloading contributes significantly to the rhythm of a gunfight and contributes the rest and fermatas that keep things interesting. However, there have been some long-standing inconsistencies in how reload works, and we’re going to even those out.

In Defiance, there has always been a functional minimum reload time. This one-second reload acts as an unbreakable barrier, like the speed of light, preventing players from getting lightning fast reloads. “But wait!”, you say, “what about the zero-reload Zagger!” And you would be right to ask! There’s a long-standing bug that allowed guns to be reloaded instantly if you modded it to be exactly a 0 second reload time. Anything else would properly respect the 1 second minimum reload time, though the UI could incorrectly display less than 1 second. This led to extremely overpowered weapons that others could never compete with. With the Aftermath update, we’re fixing both of those issues.

...

Read the full article on the website. (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)

http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg494/phletch2/courier_zpse42f335b.png (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/phletch2/media/courier_zpse42f335b.png.html)

Why does this even exist then??????? I know, it was a typo (respark) and you've just picked it up.......

Hausenwulf
10-08-2014, 11:10 PM
Hey Trion, how about fixing the game-destroying lag before taking on any more whiny pvp player nerfs?

Chump Norris
10-08-2014, 11:22 PM
http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg494/phletch2/courier_zpse42f335b.png (http://s1240.photobucket.com/user/phletch2/media/courier_zpse42f335b.png.html)

Why does this even exist then??????? I know, it was a typo (respark) and you've just picked it up.......

I cant wait to salvage my courier for its T5 mods. I have many weapons under 1.0 reload that I wasted forge and time on that are probably going to be screwed up. At least PvP will finally be balanced though!

Ned Kelly
10-08-2014, 11:39 PM
Not only that it's the admission that even though you have collected weapons along the way with less than a second reload they have been limited to one second reload except for a few that fell through the cracks, way to go Trion

Lucent
10-08-2014, 11:59 PM
I thought I would come back to play for Aftermath, but you guys are really doing your best to ensure that this disc never makes it back into my system, huh? I hasn't even played since the other reload nerf, but the idea that my beloved QM triple reload Bonfire will never be the same me very sad. I do not at all feel compelled to play your game anymore. It's sad to me because I loved Defiance so hard.
Why kill Preparedness after all this time?
Ah, I'm so over the nonsense and disappointment of this game.

duction
10-09-2014, 12:21 AM
This is hilarious, killing scrubs in pvp is going to be so much easier. Way to go with more nerf's we already know you want this game dead.

adrokier
10-09-2014, 01:14 AM
http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/06/Defiance_blog_header_4_720x332.jpg (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)

With our Aftermath update, we will be making modifications to the behaviors of some beloved-yet-broken features surrounding reloading weapons. Reloading contributes significantly to the rhythm of a gunfight and contributes the rest and fermatas that keep things interesting. However, there have been some long-standing inconsistencies in how reload works, and we’re going to even those out.

In Defiance, there has always been a functional minimum reload time. This one-second reload acts as an unbreakable barrier, like the speed of light, preventing players from getting lightning fast reloads. “But wait!”, you say, “what about the zero-reload Zagger!” And you would be right to ask! There’s a long-standing bug that allowed guns to be reloaded instantly if you modded it to be exactly a 0 second reload time. Anything else would properly respect the 1 second minimum reload time, though the UI could incorrectly display less than 1 second. This led to extremely overpowered weapons that others could never compete with. With the Aftermath update, we’re fixing both of those issues.

...

Read the full article on the website. (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)

Regardless the Zagger, this will make Veterans to leave Defiance...

Farming for good Weapons? Makes no sense everything will have a nerf to dust ^^
Paying Money for Weapons? Makes no sense what u buy as a good weapon will have a nerf to dust.

We have big impact on Full Reload Effects (for all Weapons) and Reload Times and Bonusses (on all Wepons) ... PVE and PVP

I really dnt like that..


My opinion

archon aka adrokier

stoodakiss
10-09-2014, 02:31 AM
Someone got lost along the way. This looks like a game I'd really like to play.
i like buffets of deliciousness

MJS
10-09-2014, 02:48 AM
http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/06/Defiance_blog_header_4_720x332.jpg (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)

With our Aftermath update, we will be making modifications to the behaviors of some beloved-yet-broken features surrounding reloading weapons. Reloading contributes significantly to the rhythm of a gunfight and contributes the rest and fermatas that keep things interesting. However, there have been some long-standing inconsistencies in how reload works, and we’re going to even those out.

In Defiance, there has always been a functional minimum reload time. This one-second reload acts as an unbreakable barrier, like the speed of light, preventing players from getting lightning fast reloads. “But wait!”, you say, “what about the zero-reload Zagger!” And you would be right to ask! There’s a long-standing bug that allowed guns to be reloaded instantly if you modded it to be exactly a 0 second reload time. Anything else would properly respect the 1 second minimum reload time, though the UI could incorrectly display less than 1 second. This led to extremely overpowered weapons that others could never compete with. With the Aftermath update, we’re fixing both of those issues.

...

Read the full article on the website. (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)

Sure thing pal, glad to see your screwing the Prepardness Perk when it works great and bothers no-one. So you need to make it exact same thing as the purple roll of reload stowed clip. Glad to see your working on the important stuff at Trion instead of making our cars stop disappearing or the fact that when you walk over ammo you see it being picked up but doesn’t add anything at all, or how about the 15 second lag spikes that have been happening on a daily basis? A year and a half later and all you do is screw with things rather than fix what needs it. Take a hint already since the game is a ghost town now that most people went to Destiny!

Fuzzy
10-09-2014, 03:02 AM
[...]
So you need to make it exact same thing as the purple roll of reload stowed clip. Glad to see your working on the important stuff at Trion instead of making our cars stop disappearing or the fact that when you walk over ammo you see it being picked up but doesn’t add anything at all, or how about the 15 second lag spikes that have been happening on a daily basis?

Prepardness is 50% instead of 25%. Also, the purple roll is "25% ot stowed weapon clip reloaded on a kill" not on full reload

A fix for disappearing cars is on the PTS. It might be the complete fix for every case of disappearing cars there is. AFAIK, this fix requires a client side change though, that's why it's not on live servers yet

Phantasie was on live NA servers yesterday to look into lag (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?175037-This-game-is-unplayable&p=1625744&viewfull=1#post1625744). They're actively trying to solve the lag problem(s), as they've said multiple times

Not every dev or engineer is working on the same things... While some work on making changes, some work to resolve the lag problems.

Midnight
10-09-2014, 03:55 AM
Someone got lost along the way. This looks like a game I'd really like to play.

Yeah, lost and working for someone else because they all got fired.

adrokier
10-09-2014, 04:40 AM
They shud fix also for Cankers, Boomers, BMGs ...

What they do makes no sense for me ... they deleting all nice things from the Game ...

Its just bout ppl complaining dnt using the perks and dnt find those Weapons ... I really really dnt like what the coin ...

Instead of thinking to have a PVP Map where all use the same perks and weapons ..

Trion writing the Weapons where bugging or not intending to work like this ... so pls check the game and fix the bugs ... My Question: is everything a bug in this Game?

Answer: Seems, cos of the History " the Nerf of all" ...

adrokier
10-09-2014, 04:56 AM
shud have a cool down of 60seconds or more

adrokier
10-09-2014, 05:00 AM
check also the Mag Size Bonus for Weapons ... check Mag Sizes for Boomers, it seems not working correct ... if u compare the impact between SMG, LMGS / Shotgun or Detonators

ironcladtrash
10-09-2014, 05:39 AM
It seems asinine to do this now. If they would have fixed the reload times to begin with they wouldn't have needed the nerf the reload bonuses and perks. Are they going to undo the reload cool down bonus nerf now

Ned Kelly
10-09-2014, 07:26 AM
the purple 25% stowed weapon also won't work with single round weapons, such as sludge, bonfire etc. Even if you're using a boomer and blow up five enemy at once, your single round stowed weapon WILL NOT get a reload.....

Should fix the rubbish already in the game before destroying gamers experience.

eaglepowers
10-09-2014, 07:41 AM
Who else remembers Trick saying in a live stream that they wouldn't fix the 0.0 reload zagger months ago? I wish all there fixes wouldn't be so extreme.

Can a dev confirm that 1 second will be the new minimum for all weapon classes? And can you undo the on reload bonuses or reduce the cool off time?

AllGamer
10-09-2014, 07:54 AM
As a new player, i like this fixes, it actually gives meaning to the balance of the game,
else people will just exploit all these little bugs in the game to make builts which normally would not be possible.

It's all about the balance.

Psycroww
10-09-2014, 08:33 AM
So all I truly care about with the nerf is, they are changing the 0 reload zagger to now 1 second reload and I really not only am angered at this but am annoyed. I don't understand why the 0 reload zagger is being nerfed to 1 second.
Let me list what I feel and someone can clarify/argue it if they wish.

Reason for being angered : I have gotten multiple 0 zaggers that were all pointless synergies / nanos but recently I just got a bio zagger, spent 2400 arkforge just to get the reload mastery roll, and that pisses me off that apparently is was for nothing.

Reason for being annoyed : Using sawed offs are pointless to begin with to stand wherever you are (talking about the zagger) and shoot, stand reload, shoot reload shoot reload etc etc and it takes forever to kill some things, when you can just stand wherever you are with say a needler and destroy the thing in one clip with a 1.0 second reload. I don't understand why this is happening for the zagger. The 0 reload is what set it apart from everything else you know? Like oh I have this 0 reload weapon. Now it will become useless like bmgs and lmgs because there is nothing that is useful for now. Crimefighters may cause lag but it will be better, same for couriers. Same for almost every other shotgun that can shoot more then 2-4 shots without having to reload. The 1 second reload on a zagger is TOO LONG. HELL A 0.2 IS STILL LONG. I'm just frustrated that I spent over ex amount of hours attempting to get thiss roll that now seems pointless, on top of buying a 100k mod which again, pointless. So what happens now that I have the mod and reload roll on it? It is still going to be 1 second?? That's so stupid. Are they doing anything to counter this gun being pointless? Are they increasing its range? Damage? Or are they just nerfing it to hell. Its not like it was some OP og weapon that no one could handle. You have to be extremely close to get them and seeing how the majority of pvp is consisted of : camping snipers, bunny hopping rocket launchers, and sluggers (mini snipers but more op) it was a hard feat to do. So pretty much all I got from this was
1. I got a drop I thought was good but is now a waste.
2. I wasted multiple hours of gameplay shooting the same mobs over and over again.
3. I wasted 2k arkforge
So that's my rant.


Edit: just read the article and noticed the part where the uncommon is changing the flat out damage but I still don't understand if I have the mod on. That I guess just randomly disappears? Does that change to flat damage too? What about the roll? Because either the roll or the mod makes it under 1 soooooooo wtf. I'm still pissed regardless. They say best of it's class but I call bull anyways. Couriers will still replace this shotgun imo. It is to close to be at range, and even with the 2 shot, 1 second reload, it doesn't make it better nor worse imo. It still makes it pointless to use. I JUST GOT IT 0 RELOAD. Do I get my 2k arkforge/time back? No. I get nothing from it I'm assuming. It's so bothersome that they are adding this in. It was fun to run around and shoot things with 0 reload for a day. But grrr I just want to curse because words are meaningless no matter what it I say. Just damnit is all I have to say. This game is going to turn into Cod mw2 pvp when it comes to nerfing. Everyone is going to complain oh I don't have a zagger so its unfair. So nerf it. why?Causelogic. F logic this is stupid. Zaggers are pointless in pvp as I already mentioned the range factor, it was only useful in sieges and co ops but now there is no point of it. If anyone can provide me with how this is useful, goodluck cause I have a hard time understanding how this weapon is now meaningful to have. What's next? Going to nerf jackpot wildcats 4 months from now cause no one can do it? Going to nerf precise chaos velocity because it travels "too fast?" Going to nerf lightning rifles with velocity because it is fast and impossible to dodge? going to nerf the entire f****** gun system because someone complains they cant compete against when in reality, they are just pissed they don't have it? Going to nerf big boomers because their blast radius is big? Going to nerf cannoner needlers damage/ fire rate because no one can compete on scoreboards against one? Or the 1 second reload on them to compensate for their fire rate. Whats next? Going to ruin this game more? I cannot believe they are fixing this 0 reload crap. It isn't a bug, it is just using math and a brain to get around the one second. Oh math op so nerf it. Hm putting this on this changes it? we cant have that no nerf it. from every game, nothing comes good from nerfing things, with one nerf comes another and another and another. The lag is terrible and is a huge issue and is the main cause for people elaving but no guys, 0 reload zagger op so nerf it. Screw the lag, you already nerfed the zaggers damage in the past so lets 1 up that nerf and make it 1 reload. Honestly, im done complaining. Just pissssssssed off.

ironcladtrash
10-09-2014, 09:03 AM
Why isn't this on PTS first to flush out the details? This new nerf is going to make even more guns have useless stats with reload bonuses and quartermaster.

Fuzzy
10-09-2014, 09:10 AM
Why isn't this on PTS first to flush out the details? This new nerf is going to make even more guns have useless stats with reload bonuses and quartermaster.

It says it'll come with Aftermath, so will come to the PTS before going live.
As I understand it, I could be wrong: Every weapon already has a minimum of a 1 second reload, it just isn't displayed on the card.
It's part of the two part animation (which was bugged for the Zagger, hence the change to it).
The animation itself takes 1second, and on top of that the actual reload. At least that's how it's working for shotguns.
From what I've gathered from that blog post, the only change will be: Weapons which previously skipped the reload animation with an exact reload of 0.0 now have that animation.
I could be wrong about that one, but that's how I understand it. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Current Zaggers won't get their rolls changed. No weapon stat change has been retroactive. Would surprise me if it was now. Current Zaggers still will have that low reload, but now will go through the reload animation as they're supposed to.

ironcladtrash
10-09-2014, 09:35 AM
Current Zaggers won't get their rolls changed. No weapon stat change has been retroactive. Would surprise me if it was now. Current Zaggers still will have that low reload, but now will go through the reload animation as they're supposed to.

Shotgun Mag bonuses where changed for existing guns. I also have plenty of couriers that have different reload speeds under 1 and there is a significant difference between them. Now they will all be 1 and any of them with extra reload stats will be garbage, hence why they even changed the zagger.

MJS
10-09-2014, 09:56 AM
As a new player, i like this fixes, it actually gives meaning to the balance of the game,
else people will just exploit all these little bugs in the game to make builts which normally would not be possible.

It's all about the balance.

If it is all about the balance why bother having anything to work toward? If every new player wants to start the game and be at the same level as every other person why bother playing at all? If your an Ego 250 and I'm an Ego 5400 you bet I should be able to run rings around you. And I should have the better shields, weapons and grenades. And if you want to get where i'm at you should look forward to putting a years worth of work into it just like I did. I'm sick of all you baby's complaining about how the game needs to be more balanced, and Trion is such a suckup to the new people they give you whatever you want. Screw it, have Trion start everyone at Ego 5900 and give everyone one of every OJ in the game with all T5 mods and every stat the exact same. And take your balance and stick it.

Crack
10-09-2014, 10:00 AM
Who else remembers Trick saying in a live stream that they wouldn't fix the 0.0 reload zagger months ago.

This^

I spent a LOT of scrip, forge, and traded lots of great gear to get all my Zaggers. I did this KNOWING Trick said they wouldnt be touched/changed. For every Zagger in my inventory Id like to see in my claims: 3mil scrip, 1000 Arkforge, a T4 lockbox, and an Epic mod hoard.

DEATHBRINGER210
10-09-2014, 10:10 AM
http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/06/Defiance_blog_header_4_720x332.jpg (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)

With our Aftermath update, we will be making modifications to the behaviors of some beloved-yet-broken features surrounding reloading weapons. Reloading contributes significantly to the rhythm of a gunfight and contributes the rest and fermatas that keep things interesting. However, there have been some long-standing inconsistencies in how reload works, and we’re going to even those out.

In Defiance, there has always been a functional minimum reload time. This one-second reload acts as an unbreakable barrier, like the speed of light, preventing players from getting lightning fast reloads. “But wait!”, you say, “what about the zero-reload Zagger!” And you would be right to ask! There’s a long-standing bug that allowed guns to be reloaded instantly if you modded it to be exactly a 0 second reload time. Anything else would properly respect the 1 second minimum reload time, though the UI could incorrectly display less than 1 second. This led to extremely overpowered weapons that others could never compete with. With the Aftermath update, we’re fixing both of those issues.

...

Read the full article on the website. (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)
so when are yall going to nerf the the op crime fighter to dust too ?

Punisher Illinois Blue
10-09-2014, 10:11 AM
Who the hell still uses a zagger in pvp? noobs? After all the perks were nerfed if you get killed by a zagger in pvp you might not be cut for it, there are far more op guns like the slugger and charge snipers that will never be properly addressed, Instead they just keep messing with the zagger and a bunch of other legitimate weapons that had good rolls, and were useful in pve.

Since your attacking Charge Snipers as a whole I will have to defend them as a whole. They dont need nerfing... It takes more skill to use a charge sniper than a semiauto or boltaction, and that goes for any charge weapon in anygame other than defiance. Bolts and semis can fire there weapons when they want to fire there weapons, they can run and shoot as well. Half the time witch the charge sniper you wont be able to fire at targets in ideal conditions, if your chargeing and moving you cant run, and without cloak your much more visible than other players because you glow bright. Also Charge Weapons make more noise.

The benefit of charge weapons is its huge bloost in damage but with the price listed above. Some of those charge Weapons fire subsonic rounds or eat through ammo like a machine gun. As a whole they dont need a nerf.

DEATHBRINGER210
10-09-2014, 10:12 AM
This^

I spent a LOT of scrip, forge, and traded lots of great gear to get all my Zaggers. I did this KNOWING Trick said they wouldnt be touched/changed. For every Zagger in my inventory Id like to see in my claims: 3mil scrip, 1000 Arkforge, a T4 lockbox, and an Epic mod hoard.

yep just another big failure

unsealedyeti
10-09-2014, 10:12 AM
the big question is how many of these new players or old players spend actual bits on the game you would think that trion would look at that ive sat back and watched over the last year as all changes have been made due to pvp cry babys...if some one is useing perks or certian weapons to gain advantages then why is it so hard for the person complianing to do the same....just sayin....ive watched alot of veterns and other players leave due to the changes trion has made to the point to where the 360 na server is dead along with the chat system and the sale of weapons,shields and mods....all clans have suffered due to the changes of and or for pvp players....it needs to stop before yall ruin the game if you all ready havnt...and lastly i will say this im not an pvp player i jump in sometimes out of bordem and laugh as other players kill me or i kill them...so No im not one of those players who will get upset bout the nerf other than it will lead to thers nerfs as well.......WHEN AND WHERE DOES IT STOP..

Punisher Illinois Blue
10-09-2014, 10:12 AM
so when are yall going to nerf the the op crime fighter to dust too ?

They better not, its the only shotgun I like.

DEATHBRINGER210
10-09-2014, 10:13 AM
Who else remembers Trick saying in a live stream that they wouldn't fix the 0.0 reload zagger months ago? I wish all there fixes wouldn't be so extreme.

Can a dev confirm that 1 second will be the new minimum for all weapon classes? And can you undo the on reload bonuses or reduce the cool off time?
lies lies lies lies and more lies

DEATHBRINGER210
10-09-2014, 10:16 AM
They better not, its the only shotgun I like.

i say nerf the hell out of it is really op , just like the did the surge bolters, and other defiant weapons

unsealedyeti
10-09-2014, 10:37 AM
rather than nerf just get one lol....simple fix... :)

Lucent
10-09-2014, 11:05 AM
Who else remembers Trick saying in a live stream that they wouldn't fix the 0.0 reload zagger months ago? I wish all there fixes wouldn't be so extreme.

Can a dev confirm that 1 second will be the new minimum for all weapon classes? And can you undo the on reload bonuses or reduce the cool off time?

http://www.defiancedata.com/page.php?id=198


ZAGGERS WITH 0 RELOAD TIME

It's an unintended side effect, but we aren't going to change it. We probably should have had a minimum reload time

Rashere
10-09-2014, 11:34 AM
There's a couple things that appear to have gotten lost in translation with the post:

This is going to PTS first. We put the post up yesterday because we're expecting to update PTS with it today. Watch for the PTS update notes if you'd like to hop on and check it out.

Also, the 1 second minimum time isn't new. That's an old hard-coded setting that's been around for ages. There are two bugs with the cap that are being fixed with this update. 1) The code would miss applying the hard cap if you got a weapon to exactly 0 seconds. Any other reload time that was less than one second (like 0.3 or even -0.1) gets properly capped at 1 second at the time of the reload action. 2) The stat UI on the weapon doesn't cap itself at 1 second. It will display a lower value than what the game code enforces during the actual reload action, effectively lying to you.

Those are the two bugs that are being fixed.

There's a secondary concern that I've seen come up that this change makes a bunch of things like certain bonus rolls useless because they put you under the 1 second cap. In truth, anything that takes you below 1 is already useless (unless it gets you to exactly 0). As I posted in another thread, I'm in the process of updating the bonus roll system to remove ones that don't actually have any effect. Those rolls were already on the list.

Rashere

BlackTalons
10-09-2014, 11:49 AM
There's a secondary concern that I've seen come up that this change makes a bunch of things like certain bonus rolls useless because they put you under the 1 second cap. In truth, anything that takes you below 1 is already useless (unless it gets you to exactly 0). As I posted in another thread, I'm in the process of updating the bonus roll system to remove ones that don't actually have any effect. Those rolls were already on the list.

In which cases will rolls be removed because of this (besides the zagger)?

DSW
10-09-2014, 11:55 AM
check also the Mag Size Bonus for Weapons ... check Mag Sizes for Boomers, it seems not working correct ... if u compare the impact between SMG, LMGS / Shotgun or Detonators

there's nothing wrong with boomers, at least with GP and Big Boomer versions - you still can't place more than 8 grenades.

DSW
10-09-2014, 11:59 AM
There's a couple things that appear to have gotten lost in translation with the post:

This is going to PTS first. We put the post up yesterday because we're expecting to update PTS with it today. Watch for the PTS update notes if you'd like to hop on and check it out.

Also, the 1 second minimum time isn't new. That's an old hard-coded setting that's been around for ages. There are two bugs with the cap that are being fixed with this update. 1) The code would miss applying the hard cap if you got a weapon to exactly 0 seconds. Any other reload time that was less than one second (like 0.3 or even -0.1) gets properly capped at 1 second at the time of the reload action. 2) The stat UI on the weapon doesn't cap itself at 1 second. It will display a lower value than what the game code enforces during the actual reload action, effectively lying to you.

Those are the two bugs that are being fixed.

There's a secondary concern that I've seen come up that this change makes a bunch of things like certain bonus rolls useless because they put you under the 1 second cap. In truth, anything that takes you below 1 is already useless (unless it gets you to exactly 0). As I posted in another thread, I'm in the process of updating the bonus roll system to remove ones that don't actually have any effect. Those rolls were already on the list.

Rashere

well, given that you almost cant get purple or orange zaggers, how about switching dmg and +2 mag bonuses? so that +2 mag will be uncommon or rare and dmg as orange?

Rashere
10-09-2014, 12:26 PM
In which cases will rolls be removed because of this (besides the zagger)?

The changes would only affect new weapons, not existing ones. I don't wanna screw with anything that already exists.

Rashere

ironcladtrash
10-09-2014, 12:37 PM
The changes would only affect new weapons, not existing ones. I don't wanna screw with anything that already exists.

Rashere

Why? They are already garbage. It's a massive reason to let us re roll stats even if only once under your new bonus system once it gets updated.

hardy83
10-09-2014, 12:45 PM
Why? They are already garbage. It's a massive reason to let us re roll stats even if only once under your new bonus system once it gets updated.

Because you've seen what happens when they change stats on already existing weapons. People have a hissy fit regardless if it's a good or bad change.

People scream murder, demand compensation or refunds blah blah blah. It's best just to change new stuff.

That being said, Trion have changes the stats in this game like what? 3 times now? lol 4? It's a lot for a game that's only a year and a half-ish old.

AllGamer
10-09-2014, 12:57 PM
So, the real question is...

Should I bother finding myself a Zagger with 0 reload, before the new patch comes in? ;) :D :p

Psycroww
10-09-2014, 01:09 PM
To already clarify what I already said in my other comment on page 7, Here is why I strongly disagree with the nerf of zagger:
I heard from original players that the zagger already received a damage nerf in the past, and everyone who agreed to that said it was the downfall of a zagger. They said there is no point to have one other then for show, it is more like a toy. Kind of like the plague blade, there are better options but it is still nice to have. Well now with the 0 reload factor off, that makes it not a toy, and no reason to have it.
The only use in them is co-ops, leveling if you are lucky enough to receive one not at a high ego, and in sieges/arkfalls.

SO MANY SHOTGUNS outclass the zagger to begin with, it is mentioned in the article it is the best sawed off of its class, but that doesn't justify a nerf. How is it OP in pvp? It has almost the range of a sword slash to be a kill. If you shoot it from any other shotgun range, it will not kill ANYONE unless they are low ego with no shield and you are max ego. First of all, with it's 2 shots and damage rolls now, it has the same crappy range, but apparent more damage.
I can think of multiple sawed off shotguns that can out damage the zagger even with the 0 reload off and the damage mods on. Now I'm not talking about flat out 1 shot damage but maximum clip damage. Take a nano fragger, same spread, but can burst. So you take the 4 shots of the zagger that hit all 12 pellets. Say to a TL10 mob that can withstand the shots, a nano fragger in 3 bursts will surpass those shots or reach the equivalent damage output in the time it takes to reload the zagger. Keep in mind you are still bursting the fragger. By the time it takes to shoot and reload shoot and reload, you are outdpsing it. Now do an event, take a zagger against the infected, a courier can hit just as many as the zagger and more, and will result in more dps. Cause the zagger shoots 12 pellets, and each pellet does a certain amount of damage, the courier does an exact damage to every single mob there. It is almost like the zagger will be obsolete. The drop rate on this weapon is extremely low and I have never heard of a bio zagger drop not from a warmaster. The warmaster is very hard to kill in general and now if you get that kill, you have to have a bio zagger drop which is very low. I dont know if the plan is to make the 1 second reload animation appear in the stats as 1 second, but it will still be 0 reload. I'm going to assume thats wrong.

But anyways now lets talk the shotgun in general aspect in Pvp, again zaggers have little to no range to kill someone 0 reload or not, so for someone to complain about it makes no sense. I hardly see zaggers used in pvp. The elite of the elite that are always on top of the scoreboards don't use them they use RL, slugger and snipers. With all they heavy damage shields and stuff, a zagger couldnt kill everyone no matter how class depending on the shield capacity fire wall etc etc. Not only are sluggers stronger, but they are more accurate, and almost guarantee a kill. Whether you nerf the damage, it will still surpass most shotguns in range and result in a 2 hit kill.

I don't understand the pve aspect. Mobs arent complaining about zaggers so to argue it in pve is ignorant. It doesnt make sense. Smgs, wildcats, vot blasters, out dps the zagger. It isnt like 0 reload zaggers result in a higher score. Using a zagger is almost pointless against the warmaster because you cant break that shield with the amount of time, and counting the reload. Removing a reload is a dps loss and a detrimental loss no matter how you look at it.

So many other things could be nerfed but not this. You are taking a toy gun and nerfing it to be obsolete.

Almost everyone that has earned a 0 reload zagger has spent a ton of money on it. AS you know, I spent over 2k arkforge just on the roll, keep inmind the mods and other things THAT ARE ONLY OBTAINABLE FROM the mod hoards. So even if you dont listen to me, and nerf it anyways which will probably happen, people will still be mad at this. Adding damage and more ammo in the clip DOES not compenate for the amount of scrip, mods, arkforge, etc to use it. I can't see this as a good thing.

Couriers are used to get sawed offs to 20, crimefighters are used in most co ops, bezerker shotguns and fraggers are most common pvp weapons. Why are you nerfing this to 1 reload. Yeah so it passes the 1 reload thing but some rules are meant to break at sometimes. It doesnt give you an advantage over someone unless they literally have no weapons in their inventory. I mean the jackpot wildcat is pointless in pvp unless it crits, so does that mean make it more powerful, no. So many things need to be nerfed if you even consider nerfing them. The only logical explanation i see to nerf is sluggers. If you use a system to determine the most used weapons in pvp, I think sluggers will be #1-2. Everything people complain about, Precise chaos, "zagger," lightning rifle with velocity, cankers, won't be on the top of that list because not many people have the best ones people complain about. It is ridiculously hard to get velocity on a lightning rifle, BUT THAT IS WHAT SETS IT APART. does that mean nerf it? NO. you can get a ranger with accuracy/recoil rolls that mean it has no recoil. You can get triple damage snipers that will one shot almost anyone in this game. Does that mean nerf them? NO. the jackpot wildcat, the only thing that sets it apart from most is the overcharge effect. You can get rad on a wolfhound, and if you are lucky, get the rolls and mod it to the same 7.4x crit. Use overcharge and you have THE EXACT same weapon technically. Does that mean nerf it so nothing can reach the wildcats potential. NO. The amount of how lucky you have to be to use half the weapons people complain about in pvp, are all from the oldschool players that achieve oned and because no one has it. Thats what makes this game unique. You actually feel rewarded because you know you have something unique. Taking off the 0 reload makes the weapon terrible and anyone who does the math and has a brain can understand that. Using sawed offs that you have to reload each and every second is not only bothersome, but it is annoying and removes the fun.

If you make this change to only new weapons, that makes it even mor eunfair because that makes it literally impossible now for any future players to achieve that weapon making the weapons price range sky rocket. Just please do not nerf this weapon. No one can justify the reason to a nerf.

"It's op!" Its not though. How is a sword ranged shotgun Op on large maps? When the majority of players use weapons that out damage and out range it. First of all, a sawed off shotgun that hits you at the closest range possible deserves a 1 shot kill. It makes the game realistic and not ******ed. I dont want to sit there and shoot someone who appears to be a juggernaut bullet sponge.

"It has 0 reload." Yeah.... thats the point of the gun. No one wants a sawed off shotgun to begin with unless you can get it to 0 reload which is the zagger. Its drop rate is a little bit higher then a cannoner needler.

You can't justify nerfing this weapon without nerfing any other weapon that is rare. Nerfing this weapon should lead to nerfing any sniper that has more then 2 damage rolls, any weapon that travels at undodgeable speeds like precise chaos with velocity mod, and lightning rifle with velocity, nerfing the cannonner needlers damage to compensate its ridiculous fire rate. Nerfing every vot blaster that reaches past 60 mag. Nerfing the plague blade because 2 people on the server have a sword with bio on it and no one else has one. Nerfing every weapon that is considered good. Or fun. Or convenient. Or rare. Or anything for that matter.

You cannot tell me that weapons weren't meant to be 0 reload when they come with 4 reload rolls, have a reload mod and a reload master ALONG WITH A RELOAD SYNERGY. Thats saying you made a mistake on even making the gun. And if you say that, then you cant say a vot blaster was meant to exceed 100 mag or a precise chaos can have more velocity or a cannoner needler with the fastest fire rate is meant to have a 1 second reload on it. I mean you are almost contradicting every rare weapon in this game.

ironcladtrash
10-09-2014, 01:10 PM
Because you've seen what happens when they change stats on already existing weapons. People have a hissy fit regardless if it's a good or bad change.

People scream murder, demand compensation or refunds blah blah blah. It's best just to change new stuff.

That being said, Trion have changes the stats in this game like what? 3 times now? lol 4? It's a lot for a game that's only a year and a half-ish old.

We shouldnt be afraid to ask them to fix what they broke. If they break it again I'll keep asking.

Untamed1
10-09-2014, 01:15 PM
The reason people were using the on reload perks and preparedness is because they were the only choices that had an actual impact on gameplay.

All the other choices are minor passive bonuses or so niche to be useless (like all the on revive perks).

Using the on reload perks combined with the right weapons let you have near 100% uptime. This completely changed the way you would build a loadout and play. The same is true with preparedness, where you could make weapons like rocket launchers and sawed-off shotguns viable. Many weapons spend too much time reloading for the amount of damage they output and would be nearly useless without the current preparedness or a damage buff.

I don't mind the reload "nerf" because apparently that is the way it always worked, we just know it now.

Just keep in mind players like high impact choices because they can drastically change the gameplay and make those choices feel significant. Developers seem to like low impact choices because they are easier to create and balance.

Psycroww
10-09-2014, 01:32 PM
I just dont understand justifying a weapon that was MADE to get 4 reload rolls, have a reload mastery roll, have a reload synergy, AND have the ability to put on reload mods, wasn't meant to be under 1 reload. That's literally saying "we made a weapon without thinking about it."
And you cant justify saying our system was meant to have 1 second reload when you take a 28-30 fire rate smg, with over 40 mag, and give it a 1 second reload. Nothing can compete dps with that. And you cant justify making the fastest rocket launcer in the game have the ability to put on +5 velocity on top of having a very low reload time.
You cant justify a vot blaster with 100 mag and 2. whatever reload time.

You cant justify any of that without nerfing all of the above. It is only fair to the people with the 0 reload zaggers to nerf everything I've listed. That's not fair to everyone. So I cant have a 0 reload shotgun that is bad to begin with,, but people can have a 100 mag PISTOL, with a 2 second reload. People can have a 50 mag smg which empties its clip AND RELOADS in the time it take to reload the 0 reload zagger or shoot the 4 shots in the updated zagger and reload.
This puzzles me and just leaves me saying what the ****? I'm probably coming off as annoying to people who have read my posts but its so unfair.My Opinion neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeds to be expressed and there is no other way to say it.

Punisher Illinois Blue
10-09-2014, 01:37 PM
i say nerf the hell out of it it really op , just like the did the surge bolters, and other defiant weapons

The Crimefighter is ballanced, BALLANCED!!!

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m149/bk-77-7/Ronin11_zps651e2dd9.jpg

Sinrise
10-09-2014, 01:42 PM
Really disappointed by the Preparedness nerf. So, after ignoring the bug in this perk that existed since day one, your fix is to fundamentally change the way the perk works, making it essentially a different perk and one I would never use. First of all, you can't fire and swap infinitely, as the article mistakenly states. You run out of ammo a lot faster. While it bypasses the slow reload of say, a SAW, it's distinct disadvantage (if you run dual SAWs, like I do) is you are using the same ammo pool and it drains fast. It's balanced already in that way.

Once again, Trion is making changes no one wants instead of fixing what was actually broken. I love this game but it's getting harder and harder to keep playing it. On top of trickling-in new content, long-standing and ignored bugs, "fixing" game mechanics that weren't broken, and changing things that just make the game less fun (but more "balanced"), now you're ruining a great (albeit bugged) perk that is one of my favorite mechanics.

It's not overpowered. Very few people use this loadout so it's not like Preparedness, in it's original and bugged state, was taking anything away from anyone else.

So disappointed...

DeMoNofDEATH
10-09-2014, 01:44 PM
why don't you just make zaggers useless in pvp so we can still use them in pve so people don't cry about them. you don't like zaggers, get one

the zaggers already been nerferd bad enough as previously stated

Z0mb13
10-09-2014, 01:53 PM
Really disappointed by the Preparedness nerf. So, after ignoring the bug in this perk that existed since day one, your fix is to fundamentally change the way the perk works, making it essentially a different perk and one I would never use. First of all, you can't fire and swap infinitely, as the article mistakenly states. You run out of ammo a lot faster. While it bypasses the slow reload of say, a SAW, it's distinct disadvantage (if you run dual SAWs, like I do) is you are using the same ammo pool and it drains fast. It's balanced already in that way.

Once again, Trion is making changes no one wants instead of fixing what was actually broken. I love this game but it's getting harder and harder to keep playing it. On top of trickling-in new content, long-standing and ignored bugs, "fixing" game mechanics that weren't broken, and changing things that just make the game less fun (but more "balanced"), now you're ruining a great (albeit bugged) perk that is one of my favorite mechanics.

It's not overpowered. Very few people use this loadout so it's not like Preparedness, in it's original and bugged state, was taking anything away from anyone else.

So disappointed...

Not to take away from your post (as I agree with most of it) however in the case of sawed-off shotguns you can essentially swap infinitely. In my experience this is also the mechanic most folks use when trying to level sawed offs (and leveling Sawed-offs without preparedness is going to be almost unbearable). With preparedness equipped and two sawed off shotguns you can literally cycle through each weapon repeatedly and always have 1 bullet chambered.

Psycroww
10-09-2014, 01:55 PM
Really disappointed by the Preparedness nerf. So, after ignoring the bug in this perk that existed since day one, your fix is to fundamentally change the way the perk works, making it essentially a different perk and one I would never use. First of all, you can't fire and swap infinitely, as the article mistakenly states. You run out of ammo a lot faster. While it bypasses the slow reload of say, a SAW, it's distinct disadvantage (if you run dual SAWs, like I do) is you are using the same ammo pool and it drains fast. It's balanced already in that way.

Once again, Trion is making changes no one wants instead of fixing what was actually broken. I love this game but it's getting harder and harder to keep playing it. On top of trickling-in new content, long-standing and ignored bugs, "fixing" game mechanics that weren't broken, and changing things that just make the game less fun (but more "balanced"), now you're ruining a great (albeit bugged) perk that is one of my favorite mechanics.

It's not overpowered. Very few people use this loadout so it's not like Preparedness, in it's original and bugged state, was taking anything away from anyone else.

So disappointed...

I didn't even mention the perk part cause I was so pissed about the zagger but I agree with you. I don't know if I even want to play this game if this is what the future looks like. It's such bull how nerfing is even a consideration let alone A PLAN IN THE MAKING, when they haven't even fixed the server issues. The lag has been terrible for the past month, and you are nerfing fun weapons to balance it out when balance isn't needed. I have said this in so many games, you can not balance a shooter online game no matter what you do, and make it realistic at the same time.
You can not balance weapons unless making predetermined classes that everyone can use and are unable to change but that removes the fun in the game. You can't just come out and nerf a 0 reload weapon without nerfing every other "weapon" unless you want to piss off everyone who has that nerfed weapon. PvP is stupid to begin with. First of all you are nerfing weapons and perks from pvp complaints when you have 100-5000 egos scaling up to 5900. Ofcourse if you aren't 5900 ego, everything is going to seem broken and unfair and "needs nerf" That perk was what made lmgs and ars useful in my opinion to compete against the fast firing smgs. But now this game has officially turned into Rocket Launchers, Snipers, and once the slugger gets nerfed, that's it. There is no point to equip a weapon that is blue or less because you can't oj it now because of the ******ed encryption system.

The encryption system complete counters any point of blues,greens, or whites dropping because you can't make them to their full potential. It is equivalant to pokemon making certain pokemon not be able to be evolved. Well what the hell was the point of evolve if you can't do it. What logic is there for me to pick up a white, green or blue weapon, when I can't make it higher? There isn't a point. It's a slap in the face. Now the 0 reload is gone so everything is technically the same reload. So it is almost a balance to where everyone uses the same thing. You have a pointless duel system on top of the pointless drops because ego doesnt scale in duels, but it scales in pvp? No logic again. You now are removing a weapon that was made to be 0 reload and you are removing a good perk that not many used. Again. No. Freaking. Logic. Is. Used. But its because grenades right? Whats next? Handing out free oj nades cause no one has them and everyone complains theyd ont have one. I really am pissed about the changes.

Rashere
10-09-2014, 02:16 PM
Why? They are already garbage. It's a massive reason to let us re roll stats even if only once under your new bonus system once it gets updated.

The changes I'm making are at the systematic level, not individual weapons, and many of the problematic rolls are when they compound, not any particular roll. If I were to just remove one of the tiers because it is useless when you also have 2 other rolls of the same type, there are weapons out there that only have one tier, it works fine for them, and removing it would negatively affect them.

On the other side of the coin, there are cases where having all of the rolls compound is a great thing for a particular weapon and removing them retroactively would negatively affect those as well.

It's much safer to just make the changes to new weapons instead. Once I'm a little further along, I'll post more details so you can see what I'm talking about.

Rashere

Sinrise
10-09-2014, 02:20 PM
It makes me wonder why they even bother leaving these posts open for "discussion." As far as I can tell Trion doesn't and never did intend to actually listen to these opinions and adjust accordingly. They seem mostly disconnected from their loyal player base. How else do you explain the complete neglect of long-standing bugs in favor of game-mechanics changes that are questionable at best?

Z0mb13 makes a good point about the shotguns and Preparedness but changing the very nature of the perk is a really strange way to "fix" it. They could have just as easily adjusted Preparedness (along with fixing the same-model weapon bug that was there since beta) with a second or two delay to prevent people from quickly swapping weapons with really low mag counts. But still, even without a delay, does it really unbalance things that much?

ironcladtrash
10-09-2014, 03:31 PM
The changes I'm making are at the systematic level, not individual weapons, and many of the problematic rolls are when they compound, not any particular roll. If I were to just remove one of the tiers because it is useless when you also have 2 other rolls of the same type, there are weapons out there that only have one tier, it works fine for them, and removing it would negatively affect them.

On the other side of the coin, there are cases where having all of the rolls compound is a great thing for a particular weapon and removing them retroactively would negatively affect those as well.

It's much safer to just make the changes to new weapons instead. Once I'm a little further along, I'll post more details so you can see what I'm talking about.

Rashere

I really do understand what you are saying and actually have a couple of couriers on my main characater that would fit all your scenarios. I don't think my PTS character copy has all those. If i can recopy it when this goes on there I can show you how many weapons this would effect. I have a pretty large inventory. Throwing us a bone and being able to re roll or fix them would go along way to be able to take instead of just nerfing and not giving us any thing beneficial.

DEATHBRINGER210
10-09-2014, 05:24 PM
The Crimefighter is ballanced, BALLANCED!!!

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m149/bk-77-7/Ronin11_zps651e2dd9.jpg
it needs a super duper mega nerf to dust

DEATHBRINGER210
10-09-2014, 05:30 PM
rather than nerf just get one lol....simple fix... :)

i have a oj bio and oj modded 1, trust me its to op

Nefarious
10-09-2014, 05:45 PM
hmm the new description for Preparedness kind works but it really does take away from the whole idea of needing to swap to your secondary weapon when your primary is out.

Reloading the weapon in your hands reloads a % of your stowed weapon? Well if I reload the weapon in my hand then why would I need to switch to my stowed weapon? That would be to many instances where I wouldn't benefit doing it. And far to few where I would. Its not worth working in such a way imo.

Why not have Preparedness as % of stowed weapon clip gets reloaded on kill instead of reload? Just like the Purple Epic bonus roll. That is 25% of stowed weapon clip reloaded on kill.

Make Preparedness be 5-15-25%. Level 3 of the perk being 25%. This perk then being able to work with the Purple roll of its kind would be something worth doing.

Chump Norris
10-09-2014, 06:25 PM
Do 0.0 Nano Fraggers skip the reload animation?

Nefarious
10-09-2014, 06:45 PM
Do 0.0 Nano Fraggers skip the reload animation?

Its 0.0 reload in general. Not just the Zagger.

Chump Norris
10-09-2014, 06:51 PM
Its 0.0 reload in general. Not just the Zagger.

Ok I was just curious because months back I fired a 0.0 Courier and it didn't act like a 0.0 Zagger.

Bonehead
10-09-2014, 07:22 PM
Well if I reload the weapon in my hand then why would I need to switch to my stowed weapon?

My point from the beginning.

Chump Norris
10-09-2014, 07:44 PM
I just listened to that Livestream and we were in fact lied to. They even made sure to answer a question about upgrading Zaggers to OJ and wether it would get the reload rolls. Way to lie to your customers faces knowing it will get them to spend time and resources .

SirServed
10-09-2014, 07:49 PM
Well if I reload the weapon in my hand then why would I need to switch to my stowed weapon?
There are a select number of high dps weapons that lose a substantial amount of dps when reloaded. For example, the DPS (non-crit) on my Quickshot Blaster is 100k. The advanced DPS on it is 57.5k. In the case that my weapon in hand doesn't harbor a 25% of stowed weapon clip reloaded on kill bonus or the target simply has a LOT of health, Preparedness would allow me to bypass the fact that it loses 42.5k DPS on subsequent weapon swaps due to the long reload time incurred.

This has the potential to fall apart due to the cooldown limitation placed on the perk itself. As I stated in another thread, weapons in hand with full fire and reload cycles closest to the cooldown timer itself will yield the most favorable results with this change.

Ned Kelly
10-09-2014, 08:26 PM
There's a couple things that appear to have gotten lost in translation with the post:

This is going to PTS first. We put the post up yesterday because we're expecting to update PTS with it today. Watch for the PTS update notes if you'd like to hop on and check it out.

Also, the 1 second minimum time isn't new. That's an old hard-coded setting that's been around for ages. There are two bugs with the cap that are being fixed with this update. 1) The code would miss applying the hard cap if you got a weapon to exactly 0 seconds. Any other reload time that was less than one second (like 0.3 or even -0.1) gets properly capped at 1 second at the time of the reload action. 2) The stat UI on the weapon doesn't cap itself at 1 second. It will display a lower value than what the game code enforces during the actual reload action, effectively lying to you.

Those are the two bugs that are being fixed.

There's a secondary concern that I've seen come up that this change makes a bunch of things like certain bonus rolls useless because they put you under the 1 second cap. In truth, anything that takes you below 1 is already useless (unless it gets you to exactly 0). As I posted in another thread, I'm in the process of updating the bonus roll system to remove ones that don't actually have any effect. Those rolls were already on the list.

Rashere

Then why were (after your intended fix)weapons being generated or rolls with reload scores of less than a second? All this time has gone past and now, only now are weapon rolls being looked at!

What is going to happen to all the weapons people currently have in their inventory thats being adversely affected by this?

Is this another maximum inventory damage swipe to get people back to the bit store or some other crazy idea, obviously ideas in the past have had limited though about the impact to the community, but you know, don't listen to us here on the forum because we are just the vocal minority.

This is totally flawed logic.

Sinrise
10-09-2014, 09:12 PM
This is totally flawed logic.

heh. Welcome to Earth.

Nefarious
10-09-2014, 09:23 PM
My point from the beginning.

Yeah I knew that, but that wasn't pertaining to the strategy of what I was panning out with it with explosive weapons. Which was and is the only thing that comes to mind that New Preparedness would have any kind of value using. And I was trying to wrap my head around what would New Preparedness be good for? And only for the fact IF it worked with the Explosive Perks which auto reload % of weapon held and the Preparedness % would work with the stowed weapon. If not.... then why would I switch my held weapon to a secondary when the weapon in my hand is reloaded? Which you already know.

So I think that instead of that particular use of a mess is that Preparedness should just add a reload % towards stowed weapon clip on kill. That's easy and works.

Kill some enemies... run out of ammo... switch gun.... kill some enemies... run out of ammo... switch gun.

Its still the Preparedness we know but instead of auto reloading on its own you have to kill enemies to do it. And best of all its already in game in the form of a Epic bonus roll.

Ned Kelly
10-09-2014, 10:01 PM
Yeah I knew that, but that wasn't pertaining to the strategy of what I was panning out with it with explosive weapons. Which was and is the only thing that comes to mind that New Preparedness would have any kind of value using. And I was trying to wrap my head around what would New Preparedness be good for? And only for the fact IF it worked with the Explosive Perks which auto reload % of weapon held and the Preparedness % would work with the stowed weapon. If not.... then why would I switch my held weapon to a secondary when the weapon in my hand is reloaded? Which you already know.

So I think that instead of that particular use of a mess is that Preparedness should just add a reload % towards stowed weapon clip on kill. That's easy and works.

Kill some enemies... run out of ammo... switch gun.... kill some enemies... run out of ammo... switch gun.

Its still the Preparedness we know but instead of auto reloading on its own you have to kill enemies to do it. And best of all its already in game in the form of a Epic bonus roll.

doesn't work with single shot weapons

Bonehead
10-09-2014, 10:14 PM
Then why were (after your intended fix)weapons being generated or rolls with reload scores of less than a second? All this time has gone past and now, only now are weapon rolls being looked at!


I think that shows the resource, staff, budget, planning, and execution difficulties Defiance has had since the original staff was let go and the belts were tightened to the point of blocking off the GI tract.

Bonehead
10-09-2014, 10:16 PM
I was trying to wrap my head around what would New Preparedness be good for?

Honestly, the way I see it, almost nothing.



So I think that instead of that particular use of a mess is that Preparedness should just add a reload % towards stowed weapon clip on kill. That's easy and works.

Kill some enemies... run out of ammo... switch gun.... kill some enemies... run out of ammo... switch gun.


That would be better than what they are going to do but still bad compaired to what it is now.

Whatever... It's their game.

DSW
10-09-2014, 10:18 PM
Ok I was just curious because months back I fired a 0.0 Courier and it didn't act like a 0.0 Zagger.

because Courier neeed to reload two different barrels, and 0.0 time makes it reload only one. well known featurebug.

Ned Kelly
10-10-2014, 12:37 AM
because Courier neeed to reload two different barrels, and 0.0 time makes it reload only one. well known featurebug.

Solution

http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr182/tvouthilak/MARBLE.gif

Z0mb13
10-10-2014, 08:56 AM
Honestly, the way I see it, almost nothing.



That would be better than what they are going to do but still bad compaired to what it is now.

Whatever... It's their game.

I agree after this change preparedness will just go onto the list of useless perks.

Bacon Overlord
10-10-2014, 10:53 AM
http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2014/06/Defiance_blog_header_4_720x332.jpg (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)

With our Aftermath update, we will be making modifications to the behaviors of some beloved-yet-broken features surrounding reloading weapons. Reloading contributes significantly to the rhythm of a gunfight and contributes the rest and fermatas that keep things interesting. However, there have been some long-standing inconsistencies in how reload works, and we’re going to even those out.

In Defiance, there has always been a functional minimum reload time. This one-second reload acts as an unbreakable barrier, like the speed of light, preventing players from getting lightning fast reloads. “But wait!”, you say, “what about the zero-reload Zagger!” And you would be right to ask! There’s a long-standing bug that allowed guns to be reloaded instantly if you modded it to be exactly a 0 second reload time. Anything else would properly respect the 1 second minimum reload time, though the UI could incorrectly display less than 1 second. This led to extremely overpowered weapons that others could never compete with. With the Aftermath update, we’re fixing both of those issues.

...

Read the full article on the website. (http://www.trionworlds.com/defiance/en/2014/10/08/game-mechanics-update-reloading-and-perks/)

Finally!

I know quite a few people won't like this fix (no, it's not an update, a nerf or a change... it's a fix to make the weapon do what it was originally intended to do and to stop people from exploiting it) but they should understand that there is one true constant in MMOs.

If it looks too good to be true, it's probably not meant to be that way.

Bacon Overlord
10-10-2014, 10:56 AM
This is totally flawed logic.

Since when is fixing something so obviously broken a flaw in logic? I think the flawed logic was thinking this would be a forever thing.

I can't even count the number of times I've wondered what someone was using that was doing so much damage so fast during coop maps and found that it was the Zagger. I, for one, am really thankful that this exploit was fixed.

Now for the other 98...

DEATHBRINGER210
10-10-2014, 10:58 AM
I just listened to that Livestream and we were in fact lied to. They even made sure to answer a question about upgrading Zaggers to OJ and wether it would get the reload rolls. Way to lie to your customers faces knowing it will get them to spend time and resources .
should i have to upgrade all my epic zaggers now?

Psycroww
10-10-2014, 11:00 AM
Finally!

I know quite a few people won't like this fix (no, it's not an update, a nerf or a change... it's a fix to make the weapon do what it was originally intended to do and to stop people from exploiting it) but they should understand that there is one true constant in MMOs.

If it looks too good to be true, it's probably not meant to be that way.

You say it is a fix to make the weapo do what it was originally intended to do and to stop people from exploiting it. LOL. Let me first laugh at the exploiting part because if getting the right rolls and modding it is considered exploiting then that's what everyone does in this game wih every weapon they like. Doing math isn't exploiting.
And lol at the "intended to do" if you logically think about this, the zagger was made to be 0 reload. They created a gun, with 4 reload rolls, a reload mastery roll, a reload synergy, and you can add reload mods on top of all of that. And you are telling me they couldn't use common sense or do math to realize it would drop below the 0 reload mark? Give me a break.

Psycroww
10-10-2014, 11:05 AM
Since when is fixing something so obviously broken a flaw in logic? I think the flawed logic was thinking this would be a forever thing.

I can't even count the number of times I've wondered what someone was using that was doing so much damage so fast during coop maps and found that it was the Zagger. I, for one, am really thankful that this exploit was fixed.

Now for the other 98...

Doing math isn't exploiting. And are you serious with the zagger does so much damage in co ops? lol people really can't understand the range factor. Crime fighters are all I see in co ops, I hardly ever see a zagger. Nothing can compete with needlers (cannoneer) in dps so why not nerf those? Cause if a bad shotgun that has its DAMAGE nerfed, is now unable to have 0 reload, then a 28-30 fire rate smg shouldn't have a 1 second reload. I used the jackpot wildcat and a variety of smgs, in co ops, ark falls etc, and I would place 1-2 every time. When I got my zagger, made it 0 reload, guess what? Number 9-15-20 every time.your Arguments invalid.

Bacon Overlord
10-10-2014, 11:14 AM
The Crimefighter is ballanced, BALLANCED!!!



Yeahhh.. actually it could use with some updates.. Half the time the shot doesn't register when it hits a non-mob target (like hellbug mortars, comm towers in Minor Arkfalls, the towers in "miner" incursions in SV (I forget their name off-hand), etc. You have to be almost close enough to hurt yourself with each shot in order for them to work on those. Not to mention the fact that in just about any underground Coop map, you stand as much of a chance of hitting yourself as you do the mobs if you miss.

PLUS a fully charged shot bounces around MUCH longer and generally (Murphy's law here) just enough times to find its way back to you no matter where you move, lol.

So.. thanks for bringing them up, they could really use a boost and an update. They aren't balanced at all compared to most of the other weapons out there. Less damage than just about any detonator, not on any loot tables, less arc range than a Cluster Shot or the Northstar Flare, always inaccurate no matter how much you put into accuracy since they are a base scattergun so their potential firing zone is super wide. The drawbacks actually far outweigh the benefit of being able to charge the shot and conserve ammo.

But.... at least they aren't exploitable.

Bacon Overlord
10-10-2014, 11:16 AM
You say it is a fix to make the weapo do what it was originally intended to do and to stop people from exploiting it. LOL. Let me first laugh at the exploiting part because if getting the right rolls and modding it is considered exploiting then that's what everyone does in this game wih every weapon they like. Doing math isn't exploiting.
And lol at the "intended to do" if you logically think about this, the zagger was made to be 0 reload. They created a gun, with 4 reload rolls, a reload mastery roll, a reload synergy, and you can add reload mods on top of all of that. And you are telling me they couldn't use common sense or do math to realize it would drop below the 0 reload mark? Give me a break.

I guess you didn't read the article.

The fact that 90% of the people I see in COOP maps use it should have been a wake up call. The only thing the crimefighter has is a deep ammo reserve. ANd you need it since most people can't hit anything for crap with it.

At any rate, it's a sawed off shotgun.. are you saying you honestly thought the reload should be zero.. or less than zero?

Hmmmmmmm.... I can't help you there.

EDIT: And.. seriously? People don't understand "range" factor? What's to understand about seeing every other person running around with them killing groups of enemies with them solo? "range factor". Because that has anything to do with anything being discussed, lol.

Bacon Overlord
10-10-2014, 11:17 AM
Doing math isn't exploiting. And are you serious with the zagger does so much damage in co ops? lol people really can't understand the range factor. Crime fighters are all I see in co ops, I hardly ever see a zagger. Nothing can compete with needlers (cannoneer) in dps so why not nerf those? Cause if a bad shotgun that has its DAMAGE nerfed, is now unable to have 0 reload, then a 28-30 fire rate smg shouldn't have a 1 second reload. I used the jackpot wildcat and a variety of smgs, in co ops, ark falls etc, and I would place 1-2 every time. When I got my zagger, made it 0 reload, guess what? Number 9-15-20 every time.your Arguments invalid.

It's... not an argument?

Sooo.... yeah... don't get mad at me. I didn't fix it.

But, I will say that the butthurt runs deep in this thread. Don't get mad, just up your arsenal. Adjust for the changes and upgrade some other things. Pretty simple.

Amack
10-10-2014, 11:33 AM
When it comes to the preparedness perk I look at it this way... The game has guns in it, thus I expect to have to reload.

I do not swap weapons in order to keep the fight going (dps).
I swap weapons depending on the situation (different nano or gun style).

I'm going to stay out of the Zagger issue as I do not use them, but I do wholeheartedly agree that no gun should have to ability to eliminate the reload effect.

bigbad4u2003
10-10-2014, 12:16 PM
WHAT another fix to weapons and perks Why not fix the lag and the time out it would take to long to put the fixes you should do. I guess you don't like to have plays stay in defiance. Tron fix one thing and something else needs to be fix. DO NOT fix the ZAGGER. Tron will have more plays leave the game Try to fix something that need fixing and leave the Weapons and perks alone Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bigbad4u2003
10-10-2014, 12:19 PM
I Am being to dislike defiance maybe I will play a different game That Tron didn't make!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psycroww
10-10-2014, 12:28 PM
I guess you didn't read the article.

The fact that 90% of the people I see in COOP maps use it should have been a wake up call. The only thing the crimefighter has is a deep ammo reserve. ANd you need it since most people can't hit anything for crap with it.

At any rate, it's a sawed off shotgun.. are you saying you honestly thought the reload should be zero.. or less than zero?

Hmmmmmmm.... I can't help you there.

EDIT: And.. seriously? People don't understand "range" factor? What's to understand about seeing every other person running around with them killing groups of enemies with them solo? "range factor". Because that has anything to do with anything being discussed, lol.
I don't understand your assumption that i didnt read the article comment because you lacked to provide any other comment regarding that, but just so you know, I did read the article. I'm aware they aren't just changing the zagger, they are changing everything that is 0 reload. I simply stated it wasn't exploiting. As I provided saying you cant give a 2 second reload weapon 4 reload rolls, a reload mastery roll, a reload synergy and a reload mod without understanding it will be under 1. So that is countering your fixing the weapon to make it what it was intended to do comment. If it was made to have that many reload rolls, it was made to reach under 1 reload? You say people exploit that, how do people exploit that? You are doing everything the game allows you to do. The gun has 4 reload rolls on its own. So now, you go to use the weapon, and you master it, and you get the reload roll on it. You decide you want to put mods on it so you attach a reload mod and guess what?!?!?! Under 1 reload without doing anything but using the weapon. How is that exploiting? You lost me. No one can tell me how this is exploiting as I have made several posts and no one has been able to counter anything I've said because it is true. The only expectation is that the creators of this weapon decided to put the reload stuff on it and putting it into the game without testing it. And they left it like that for a year until now. ON TOP OF THAT, DEVS HAVE CLEARLY SAID, we will not change it. Twist their words, twist the context of how they used it, no matter what you say, they said it wont change. Now its changing. So they lied. Multiple people spent arkforge, money on mod hoards, time to get it and now because they are adding damage on it makes it okay?! No it doesnt. We spent all this arkforge etc on it that we dont get back. Now after this update, everyone who gets it will have the same thing we do. We dont get anything for the time and money/currency we put into it. But i mean its okay because YOU see it in co ops right?

I dont know if you are playing in the past, but they nerfed the zaggers damage. So to say that is all you see in co ops and how they do tons of damage is ignorant. It doesnt do a ton of damage. The main argument is its 0 reload factor makes it impossible to beat it on the scoreboard, when i can think of 20 weapons that out dps it, BUT NO ONE can think of one weapon that can out dps a bio canonner needler. NO one can. No one can explain how 0 reload on a shotgun is bad, but 1 reload on a 28 fire rate smg is good? They are either both good or both bad. But no one is saying that. Therefore the balance factor isnt there. So they are taking out the 0 reload and adding damage to it. Meaning them nerfing the damage in the past was a waste of time and useless. This weapon is bad in pvp. That was the range factor comment. And i highly doubt zaggers are all you see in co-ops. Thats bull because if 90% of people use it, then everyone would have one. Meaning there is nothing to complin about because everyone has it. The fact of the matter is, they are obsolete to begin with, the only reason to use one is because of the 0 reload. Im complaining because I dont understand why the 0 reload factor is the only thing being changed with the perk. They arent fixing the 0 recoil on rangers, they arent fixing slugger damage, they arent fixing velocity on precise chaos, they arent fixing cankers, they arent doing anything. This patch only effects the people with the zaggers and people who use 0 reload weapons along with the perk.
I'm not butthurt at all. I understand the change is going to happen no matter what i say. But its only going to ruin the game. They are adding in more "balance" when so many other things need to be fixed first. Servers are bad, encryption system ruined the point of anything under purple dropping, ark salvage are pointless. These are major issues, and they arent being fixed. So thats what im "butthurt" about is that they arent going to get fixed. Im butthurt that I was lied to by creators/devs. So yeah I dont agree with anything anyone says about this "FIX" when no one has provided any useful comment. You say they do a ridiculous amount of damage because 0 reload when I think of 5 weapons on the top of my head that out dps it by a mile, I can think of so many other weapons that are ACTUALLY a big issue unlike this.

ironcladtrash
10-10-2014, 01:46 PM
I made a video to show the differences in reload speeds under 1 to show there is a difference

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?175269-Reloads-under-1-do-make-a-difference&p=1626719#post1626719

MJS
10-10-2014, 03:43 PM
I don't understand your assumption that i didnt read the article comment because you lacked to provide any other comment regarding that, but just so you know, I did read the article. I'm aware they aren't just changing the zagger, they are changing everything that is 0 reload. I simply stated it wasn't exploiting. As I provided saying you cant give a 2 second reload weapon 4 reload rolls, a reload mastery roll, a reload synergy and a reload mod without understanding it will be under 1. So that is countering your fixing the weapon to make it what it was intended to do comment. If it was made to have that many reload rolls, it was made to reach under 1 reload? You say people exploit that, how do people exploit that? You are doing everything the game allows you to do. The gun has 4 reload rolls on its own. So now, you go to use the weapon, and you master it, and you get the reload roll on it. You decide you want to put mods on it so you attach a reload mod and guess what?!?!?! Under 1 reload without doing anything but using the weapon. How is that exploiting? You lost me. No one can tell me how this is exploiting as I have made several posts and no one has been able to counter anything I've said because it is true. The only expectation is that the creators of this weapon decided to put the reload stuff on it and putting it into the game without testing it. And they left it like that for a year until now. ON TOP OF THAT, DEVS HAVE CLEARLY SAID, we will not change it. Twist their words, twist the context of how they used it, no matter what you say, they said it wont change. Now its changing. So they lied. Multiple people spent arkforge, money on mod hoards, time to get it and now because they are adding damage on it makes it okay?! No it doesnt. We spent all this arkforge etc on it that we dont get back. Now after this update, everyone who gets it will have the same thing we do. We dont get anything for the time and money/currency we put into it. But i mean its okay because YOU see it in co ops right?

I dont know if you are playing in the past, but they nerfed the zaggers damage. So to say that is all you see in co ops and how they do tons of damage is ignorant. It doesnt do a ton of damage. The main argument is its 0 reload factor makes it impossible to beat it on the scoreboard, when i can think of 20 weapons that out dps it, BUT NO ONE can think of one weapon that can out dps a bio canonner needler. NO one can. No one can explain how 0 reload on a shotgun is bad, but 1 reload on a 28 fire rate smg is good? They are either both good or both bad. But no one is saying that. Therefore the balance factor isnt there. So they are taking out the 0 reload and adding damage to it. Meaning them nerfing the damage in the past was a waste of time and useless. This weapon is bad in pvp. That was the range factor comment. And i highly doubt zaggers are all you see in co-ops. Thats bull because if 90% of people use it, then everyone would have one. Meaning there is nothing to complin about because everyone has it. The fact of the matter is, they are obsolete to begin with, the only reason to use one is because of the 0 reload. Im complaining because I dont understand why the 0 reload factor is the only thing being changed with the perk. They arent fixing the 0 recoil on rangers, they arent fixing slugger damage, they arent fixing velocity on precise chaos, they arent fixing cankers, they arent doing anything. This patch only effects the people with the zaggers and people who use 0 reload weapons along with the perk.
I'm not butthurt at all. I understand the change is going to happen no matter what i say. But its only going to ruin the game. They are adding in more "balance" when so many other things need to be fixed first. Servers are bad, encryption system ruined the point of anything under purple dropping, ark salvage are pointless. These are major issues, and they arent being fixed. So thats what im "butthurt" about is that they arent going to get fixed. Im butthurt that I was lied to by creators/devs. So yeah I dont agree with anything anyone says about this "FIX" when no one has provided any useful comment. You say they do a ridiculous amount of damage because 0 reload when I think of 5 weapons on the top of my head that out dps it by a mile, I can think of so many other weapons that are ACTUALLY a big issue unlike this.

Here is one point I would like to agree with you on Psycroww. We all were flat out lied to, the following was answered on the May 2,2014 livestream and if anyone cares to check it out you can reread and watch on Defiance Data. And a very big Thank You to Etaew for the great record keeping:
ZAGGERS WITH 0 RELOAD TIME
It's an unintended side effect, but we aren't going to change it. We probably should have had a minimum reload time

Now to be fair I own two zaggers, a blue and a purple. And they suck. I do more Damage with my Casti Springer w/ Rad. nano than the zagger could.
But that doesn’t forgive the fact that many people spent real world dollars to buy bits just so they could make a really good gun for what they thought would be for the long haul. And now that the money has been spent everyone who stands to lose their investment feels jaded. And as well they should, at this point in time the only people not feeling the sting of their lies are the ones who are now playing Destiny.

stoodakiss
10-10-2014, 05:46 PM
To the extent permitted by applicable laws, you hereby waive any moral rights you have in any User Content.

NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN ANY ACCOUNT STORED OR HOSTED ON THE TRION PLATFORM OR SERVERS, AND YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO SUCH ACCOUNTS ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF TRION.

You agree that Trion retains the unfettered right to modify its Game(s) and all aspects of characters, items, points and coin, including Virtual Currency, therein. You acknowledge that Trion has been, is, and will be constantly making changes to its Game(s). You further acknowledge that Trion can and will, in its discretion, modify features, functions or abilities of any element of any of its Game(s) or Virtual Items (which may, among other things, make the Virtual Items substantially more valuable, effective or functional, or less valuable, effective or functional, more common or less common, or eliminated entirely). You acknowledge and agree that all Virtual Items represent a limited license right as governed by the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Trion at any time.

qslcnw-9KbI&feature=youtu.be

Amack
10-10-2014, 05:49 PM
To the extent permitted by applicable laws, you hereby waive any moral rights you have in any User Content.

NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN ANY ACCOUNT STORED OR HOSTED ON THE TRION PLATFORM OR SERVERS, AND YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO SUCH ACCOUNTS ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF TRION.

You agree that Trion retains the unfettered right to modify its Game(s) and all aspects of characters, items, points and coin, including Virtual Currency, therein. You acknowledge that Trion has been, is, and will be constantly making changes to its Game(s). You further acknowledge that Trion can and will, in its discretion, modify features, functions or abilities of any element of any of its Game(s) or Virtual Items (which may, among other things, make the Virtual Items substantially more valuable, effective or functional, or less valuable, effective or functional, more common or less common, or eliminated entirely). You acknowledge and agree that all Virtual Items represent a limited license right as governed by the terms of this Agreement, and are not redeemable for any sum of money or monetary value from Trion at any time.

In other words... We're screwed. :D

Migillicutty
10-10-2014, 06:59 PM
Who gives a flying **** about the reload times on a game you can only play half the time!!!!! FIX YOUR LAG ISSUES!!!!!!! Then worry about the reload time on a single weapon...you IDIOT'S!!!!!!!!! I cant even reload in the time allotted for the weapon that I use when the lag is so horrible that is slows down the entire game, let alone one stupid weapon....or even a hundred of them for that matter!!!!!!

SirServed
10-10-2014, 07:35 PM
Who gives a flying **** about the reload times on a game you can only play half the time!!!!! FIX YOUR LAG ISSUES!!!!!!! Then worry about the reload time on a single weapon...you IDIOT'S!!!!!!!!! I cant even reload in the time allotted for the weapon that I use when the lag is so horrible that is slows down the entire game, let alone one stupid weapon....or even a hundred of them for that matter!!!!!!
I don't know about you, but my lag issues haven't been an issue for the past few days (I play on PC). Whatever changes PT made seem to have worked it all out for me.

dgunn31
10-10-2014, 08:35 PM
i have been a fan of defiance for quite some time and in game i often find myself wishing that there was a mod that allows you to select full or semi auto fire modes for all guns in game can you see if you can create a mod that will allow us players to chose to fire off a wolfhound on full auto or a saw on semi auto please

ImCloudNiqqa
10-11-2014, 03:45 PM
Have we forgotten how hard it was for people to get a 0 reload zagger? It is not a gun that is easily obtained and what about saying that it would not be changed? #trionisabunchofliars

Baines
10-11-2014, 04:23 PM
I don't know about you, but my lag issues haven't been an issue for the past few days (I play on PC). Whatever changes PT made seem to have worked it all out for me.

Playing on PC-NA, it does seem a bit better lately. But that has happened in the past, only for problems to reoccur.

On the other hand, I've seen a few more issues with random events. Like two random roadside events occupying the same space at the same time (rescue e-rep and clear the hellbug nest), which resulted in floating geometry, a description that changed as I ran around, and clearing one mission's goal caused the goal of the other mission to also vanish.

RAGEFIGHTER
10-11-2014, 10:07 PM
Hmmm, :confused: So let me get this straight, please correct me if i'm wrong.

1) Patch will be nerf'n the Preparedness to an almost useless perk.

2) All guns with less than 1 sec reload will be nerfed. (especially "single reload" shotty,detonator,rockets,sawedoff, etc.)

3) Zagger will now have one less usable mod, since the only two mods (mag,reload) does not affect in any way.
(mag+%40 x original 2 mag = 0)

So instead of JUST fixing the Zagger, we get a Afternerf update ? :(


edit: I really hope not >.< or half of my daily used weapons will collect dust, electro SMG, Boomer, sludge, Shotty.....

yea sounds like more nerfing stuffs again instead off improving game play well dont take mee sireously i prety mad for nerfing my weapon in wich i invested money so i kinda mad my thinking way is based on angrynes :)

Sinrise
10-14-2014, 11:28 AM
I understand the change is going to happen no matter what i say. But its only going to ruin the game. They are adding in more "balance" when so many other things need to be fixed first. Servers are bad, encryption system ruined the point of anything under purple dropping, ark salvage are pointless. These are major issues, and they arent being fixed. So thats what im "butthurt" about is that they arent going to get fixed. Im butthurt that I was lied to by creators/devs.

You've hit the nail on the head. This apparently is Trion's MO, and has been all along. People can make excuses about personnel changes or any number of reasons but there's no excuse for ignoring the vocal community and/or core group of players who still play this game in spite of Trion's questionable "decisions." While I don't necessarily disagree they lied to us, again, I'd say there's an equal chance they are just disorganized/disinterested and are concerned with little more than driving people to make in-game purchases, as flawed as those attempts might be. I've been playing since day one, have 5900 ego and all but 2 pursuits complete (along with all the other content) and I can say with certainty that the changes made since they ruined the grenade system have prevented me, and many others from purchasing anything.

Mosiah TheSAVAGE
10-23-2014, 09:24 PM
Soooo any reviews on what a zagger is without reload below 1? And does that mean if I wanted a zagger anyway I should wait till update to see if value drops?

Impearlex
10-24-2014, 11:46 AM
I'm pretty sure we all want a fun game, not a "realistic" one, but ...

IllmaticSxM
10-24-2014, 04:33 PM
Are you kidding me? Woooooooooow atleast make them un-usable in PvP/Duels.. I love my Grind Fragger & I dont use it in PvP.. Why dont you guys go nerf the unlimited BMG's or the O.P Infectors that kill you when you respawn.. The one gun i spent weeks building you guys are destroying it.. Thx alot.. I love this game but w/out my grind fragger it will suck..

DEATHBRINGER210
11-26-2014, 12:17 PM
'"we’ve altered those bonuses to turn the Zagger into a weapon that captures it original flavor and keeps it as a best-in-category sawed-off shotgun". "The legendary Zagger continues to be the best weapon of its kind". this untrue now . the zagger isnt best gun of it type now. way to ruin one of best guns ever made in any game ever

Iceberg
03-06-2015, 05:21 PM
Well I know I am late to this party, after playing for a few days and noticing my preparedness perk not working how I remember it, this explains it. Guess I will just have one fast reloading gun with a slow reloading lmg for my loadouts, was running a loadout with two lmgs while using that perk. I also am glad I leveled my shotguns to 20 with couriers before this took affect.