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WanWhiteWolf
10-15-2014, 12:14 AM
Most of you know that on PC, beating him takes a bit of organization and decent amount of people that know what they are doing. On top pf that, you need patience to deal with the multiple-instance issue, major arkfalls dissapearing right before you enter, the random newbs who can't read the chat, the trolls who mess up stuff because they can, the occasional dissconect ... etc.

If you go through all of the above and succeed you will get more green weapons than any other rarity. As for the keys, the amount for winning or loosing is the same (maybe there is one extra key or something like that). A clanmate disconnected before the end. He reconnected and tp'ed right before the end. He was still up when the War Master died. After he saw the scorescreen he asked:

"So, did we win or lose?"

He couldn't tell.

Real satatistic: out of 112 victorious WM boxes , 2 had legendaries (3 runs with 30-40 people). Can you at least make 3 purple quaranteed (nobody needs greens and blues with the current mechanics) and increase the legendary chance from whatever-subunitar-procentage is now to something like 10-15%. It would be "fair" that at least 3-5 people from 30 to get a legendary.

Wouldn't you agree?

Atticus Batman
10-15-2014, 02:11 AM
Most of you know that on PC, beating him takes a bit of organization and decent amount of people that know what they are doing. On top pf that, you need patience to deal with the multiple-instance issue, major arkfalls dissapearing right before you enter, the random newbs who can't read the chat, the trolls who mess up stuff because they can, the occasional dissconect ... etc.

If you go through all of the above and succeed you will get more green weapons than any other rarity. As for the keys, the amount for winning or loosing is the same (maybe there is one extra key or something like that). A clanmate disconnected before the end. He reconnected and tp'ed right before the end. He was still up when the War Master died. After he saw the scorescreen he asked:

"So, did we win or lose?"

He couldn't tell.

Real satatistic: out of 112 victorious WM boxes , 2 had legendaries (3 runs with 30-40 people). Can you at least make 3 purple quaranteed (nobody needs greens and blues with the current mechanics) and increase the legendary chance from whatever-subunitar-procentage is now to something like 10-15%. It would be "fair" that at least 3-5 people from 30 to get a legendary.

Wouldn't you agree?

What you are asking for is to have Wm returned to the way he was before timers were added and his rewards were nerfed so bad. Congratulations you just realized why most vets quit doing Warmasters. It does suck, but Trion purposely nerfed those rewards into the ground, so I doubt the will unnerve them, while people actually continue to do the warmaster with such crappy rewards.

Kosmiker
10-15-2014, 02:12 AM
I agree and to be honest the whole reward system in this game is way too nerfed (Hotshots, arenas, rampages, etc... all giving but greens?). Taking in consideration the high challenge that Warmaster presents I think it's only fair to get higher drop rates when players are able defeat him.

edit

And if Trion played their cards rights, having good weapons in the hands of people who don't have dlc might make them buy the dlc! Think about this Trion!

Psycroww
10-15-2014, 05:45 AM
I agree with the OP for the most part. I do think weapon drops are terrible from the warmaster and also from many other things. For example siege events, I swear I always get the 2 same exact weapons every time. I also agree with guaranteeing purples because of the new encryption system. It isn't new but you get the point, it ruins that value of anything under purple dropping. The main "chase" in this game is to get one of, if not, the best OJ weapon rng gives you. I don't understand why I get greens and blues from anything. It will encrypt on an upgrade so what is the point of even picking it up or keeping it if I know it will just become useless. Like this blue so far has the exact rolls I need, but I wont waste the overpriced AF on it just to encrypt it. I think a few things should be added, either change the encryption system, and lower the AF cost to upgrade you weapons. Maybe 25 from green to blue, 100 from blue to purple and 200 from purple to OJ. I'm sorry but 500 is too high for the current state of this game. But that probably won't happen just my idea.

Anyways to get back on topic, the rewards are broken as hell and it isn't just weapons either. The keys need to get a boost. Too little keys drop from events, it's crazy how you could get like 20-40 for events and now the most you get is 12 IF you kill the WM. It sucks man but it's how things are.

Bonehead
10-15-2014, 06:06 AM
All of those things are the way they are so you will spend money in the bit store. Keys are rare so you will spend real money on boxes. Drop rates suck so that you will be tempted to spend real money in the bit store.
The warmaster is just a poorly designed raid instance without any raid mechanics. The rewards are on the poor side to drive bit store sales up. I originally thought arkforge was going to be the cash cow but it looks like they are looking fore sales across the whole range of bit store products.
This is just how the game is monetized.
Free to play, woot!

Mr666
10-15-2014, 06:16 AM
I don't the think the fight is worth the crappy orange always. I like the fight now but the weapons are not top tier weapons but the fight so its like why waste time when I could be getting keys, doing sieges, or incursions. I think they should make the weapons like the jackpot weapons then the fight and chase is worth it.

Psycroww
10-15-2014, 06:30 AM
All of those things are the way they are so you will spend money in the bit store. Keys are rare so you will spend real money on boxes. Drop rates suck so that you will be tempted to spend real money in the bit store.
The warmaster is just a poorly designed raid instance without any raid mechanics. The rewards are on the poor side to drive bit store sales up. I originally thought arkforge was going to be the cash cow but it looks like they are looking fore sales across the whole range of bit store products.
This is just how the game is monetized.
Free to play, woot!
I can understand this if the prices are fair but they aren't. They are completely blown out of proportion. I'm sorry but I will not spend 20 dollars to upgrade 2 purples to an oj. It's not worth it. I can understand if the AF prices were dropped a bit or you got more from them but it is a lame excuse to make money. Especially when the 9.99 dlc gives 1000 arkforge and the 2.99 game disc also gives 1000 arkforge, so why would i spent double or even 10x the amount in the bit store?
The game used to give you large amounts of things that made the game more fun. For example getting over 20 keys for doing events. 5-10 keys per 20 minute events sometimes are just lame. I'm sorry but getting 12 keys for doing the warmaster is not rewarding at all. I place number 1 on the leaderboards in seige events and arkfalls etc and I get crap which makes me feel again pointless.
The spend money on boxes isn't really why they are like that because it doesn't take a genius to figure out the lockboxes are overpriced as well, and it is all rng. It isn't set up where if you buy it with bits, the odds are in your favor. I bought 1 corporate espionage box and 3 other boxes with bits. I bought 1 t4 lockbox with the keys and scrip and guess what?! Jackpot wildcat. I did the same earlier and got an oj nade. Why would I ever spend money on the boxes when it will result in the same outcome. They used to cost ark salvage. Just another lame excuse to bring in extra cash.
I have put in enough money to back up my statements, it's not like I just complain to complain, because I would spend more money if I had a reason to, but I don't see one.

AllGamer
10-15-2014, 06:30 AM
I've got oranges from the Monkey run, but they are usually worthless oranges.
Exactly as OP described, most of the times we get Greens, a lot of greens.

the drop table is a bit weird, it goes to both extremes, like where are the blues/purples?
it's like all or nothing sort of drop rate.

I've gotten better Oranges from the Volge sieges than from the big Monkey

SirServed
10-15-2014, 11:18 AM
I think a few things should be added, either change the encryption system, and lower the AF cost to upgrade you weapons. Maybe 25 from green to blue, 100 from blue to purple and 200 from purple to OJ. I'm sorry but 500 is too high for the current state of this game. But that probably won't happen just my idea.

Anyways to get back on topic, the rewards are broken as hell and it isn't just weapons either. The keys need to get a boost. Too little keys drop from events, it's crazy how you could get like 20-40 for events and now the most you get is 12 IF you kill the WM. It sucks man but it's how things are.
The problem I'm seeing is that we encountered Encryption and a reward change when only the reward change was needed. Had they simply reduced rewards, people could still take a green weapon and nurture it into a Legendary at the cost of hard work. The problem with rarity upgrades for items that aren't DLC2 items or shields is that it's still a risky roll of the dice. You pay for that with forge and you don't get it back if things go south. With encryption in the mix, players like myself won't even glance at anything less than purple, it gets vendored/broken down. Even with a purple in hand, we're still picky about what we will upgrade.


I don't the think the fight is worth the crappy orange always. I like the fight now but the weapons are not top tier weapons but the fight so its like why waste time when I could be getting keys, doing sieges, or incursions. I think they should make the weapons like the jackpot weapons then the fight and chase is worth it.
You should have probably done some math before making this statement. I don't know what your qualifications for being top tier are, and I don't know that I want to find out. Not recommended. Not at all.


I've got oranges from the Monkey run, but they are usually worthless oranges.
Exactly as OP described, most of the times we get Greens, a lot of greens.

the drop table is a bit weird, it goes to both extremes, like where are the blues/purples?
it's like all or nothing sort of drop rate.

I've gotten better Oranges from the Volge sieges than from the big Monkey
That loot can be very, very unfair at times. Sometimes I get 3 purple VOT Volge Typhoons on a kill and I pretty much want to ragequit. Hell, when killing him yields a VOT Volge Typhoon/Lightning Rifle/Thunderer Pistol/Battle Rifle as the DLC2 rolled item, I want to ragequit. Real DLC2 weapons have static stat tables. That garbage can roll green to purple with the rest of the stash.

DEATHBRINGER210
10-15-2014, 02:17 PM
someone complain about getting to many ojs and they nerf it to dust

satirized
10-15-2014, 02:46 PM
I dont care about OJ. I rather one purple rad canonner needler then infinite amount of OJ weapons of anything else.

Festival
10-15-2014, 03:13 PM
Like many, many vets, I stopped doing Monkey runs after the lock timers fiasco. I don't like being insulted and lied to by developers, plain and simple. I have to put that whole shtako-show out of my mind to still enjoy the game, frankly. The horrible loot table never really entered into it (I joined WM events because I enjoyed playing them, not for the loot).

Pre-Bullet Sponge WM runs were enormous fun (and once players who know what to do were common, succeeded about as often as they failed, at least on PC/NA). After the Bullet Sponge patch and the scaling trainwreck, they were less fun and not nearly as likely to succeed, but not completely broken. And there was the entertainment factor of abusing Trick's precious lockbreakers...

Now? There's nothing remotely fun about a completely doomed attempt - which is what every attempt that's not some meticulously-organized, clan-based effort is - and few long-time players do them any more.

SirServed
10-15-2014, 03:25 PM
Pre-Bullet Sponge WM runs were enormous fun (and once players who know what to do were common, succeeded about as often as they failed, at least on PC/NA).
That was a thing? Most of the wins I had were basically 4 of us carrying the rest of the room to victory. I know there were a few really fast kills when the All-Stars lined up but that was it, a few.

Fallen_Aingeal
10-15-2014, 03:42 PM
Like many, many vets, I stopped doing Monkey runs after the lock timers fiasco. I don't like being insulted and lied to by developers, plain and simple. I have to put that whole shtako-show out of my mind to still enjoy the game, frankly. The horrible loot table never really entered into it (I joined WM events because I enjoyed playing them, not for the loot).

Pre-Bullet Sponge WM runs were enormous fun (and once players who know what to do were common, succeeded about as often as they failed, at least on PC/NA). After the Bullet Sponge patch and the scaling trainwreck, they were less fun and not nearly as likely to succeed, but not completely broken. And there was the entertainment factor of abusing Trick's precious lockbreakers...

Now? There's nothing remotely fun about a completely doomed attempt - which is what every attempt that's not some meticulously-organized, clan-based effort is - and few long-time players do them any more.Agree with this.

I remember when WM was first introduced and ppl were yelling that it needed to be nerfed because it was impossible to kill. Then, after a day or so, he started to go down and ppl were learning how to kill him.

This was back in the day that I wasn't the only member of my clan playing alone for weeks on end. There were usually 8-10 of us on at any given time. WM runs were commonplace. Several a day.

I miss those days. Have only done 1 WM since the timers and there were about 15 ppl in there. At least 5 were using BMG's. Several others were using Volge weapons. 1/2 the ppl were shooting the back, the other half, well, where ever. It got to the point I stepped back and watch, as I knew that it was going to fail.

I don't think they took an 1/8th of the armor off. I decided then that the WM was dead to me. It will never hold the glory that it used to.

Mr666
10-15-2014, 03:45 PM
You should have probably done some math before making this statement. I don't know what your qualifications for being top tier are, and I don't know that I want to find out. Not recommended. Not at all.
I thought I made it clear by stating they should be like jackpot weapons much like the wildcat or respark regenerator V ARK . I would play the warmaster for items like those even with the way the warmaster is now. Would you not?

Bonehead
10-15-2014, 03:46 PM
I can understand this if the prices are fair but they aren't.

This is Capitalism. Fair does not enter in to it in any way. They base their prices on spread sheets and data.


it is a lame excuse to make money.

It's the best they could come up with.


The game used to give you large amounts of things that made the game more fun.

Those days are gone. That reward system was based on buy to play. If you get large amounts of fun stuff, there is no incentive to spend at the bit store.


They used to cost ark salvage. Just another lame excuse to bring in extra cash.

Trust me on this one, there is no such thing as "extra cash" where Defiance is concerned. Remember the new Cooper? That was the best they could do with the cash on hand.

I am not saying any of this is right. It's just the way I see it. They have to make money and this is the way they're doing it. It's a brave new Defiance world.


I would spend more money if I had a reason to, but I don't see one.

You are in good company.

This is not meant in any way as an argument, you make good points. This is how I see your points relating to Trion's management of Defiance.

WanWhiteWolf
10-15-2014, 04:09 PM
I am not saying the difficulty should be changed. I think it's fun and challenging as it is. Yes, unless you go with an organized group you will likely fail. And there will be always a bit of "uncertainty", which keeps you on your toes.

I am only pointing that there should be something better than greens for a victory. They don't want to give us orange? Fine. Give us purples and that will be a good incentive to buy arkforge. At this point I don't have any purple that is worth upgrading and with the current drop rates I will hoard arkforge. Why should I buy arkforge from bit store?

If they remove encryption then people will spend more arkforge. I am sure that some will find "that purple" and won't have the arkforge to upgrade it. Then the store starts to look attractive.

satirized
10-15-2014, 04:58 PM
I thought I made it clear by stating they should be like jackpot weapons much like the wildcat or respark regenerator V ARK . I would play the warmaster for items like those even with the way the warmaster is now. Would you not?

No. Because neither of them are good items. And I already am flooded with those items. Only useful for extortions.

Incase if you dont do math, jackpot wildcat is NOT NOT a perfect wildcat.
And regen shields are just bad.
A good item would be a canonner rad needler or a canonner rad quickshot blaster.

SirServed
10-15-2014, 06:23 PM
I thought I made it clear by stating they should be like jackpot weapons much like the wildcat or respark regenerator V ARK . I would play the warmaster for items like those even with the way the warmaster is now. Would you not?
What if I told you that I'm a Rhino user and I own 3 Jackpot Wildcats but don't use any of them in the WM fight?

Psycroww
10-16-2014, 12:21 PM
This is Capitalism. Fair does not enter in to it in any way. They base their prices on spread sheets and data.



It's the best they could come up with.



Those days are gone. That reward system was based on buy to play. If you get large amounts of fun stuff, there is no incentive to spend at the bit store.



Trust me on this one, there is no such thing as "extra cash" where Defiance is concerned. Remember the new Cooper? That was the best they could do with the cash on hand.

I am not saying any of this is right. It's just the way I see it. They have to make money and this is the way they're doing it. It's a brave new Defiance world.



You are in good company.

This is not meant in any way as an argument, you make good points. This is how I see your points relating to Trion's management of Defiance.

I understand you aren't trying to cause a fight or argue. Just a friendly debate is all.

I know they are a good company, I have admitted this in the past that I am a big fan and support trion. However, it isn't capitalism. It is just supply and demand in my eyes. You can buy the 5th dlc over and over again to get 1000 arkforge. You can buy the 2.99 game discs and renter the code they give you for 1000 arkforge as well. I will not pay 20 dollars for something I can get 2-10x cheaper from the same company.

The best they could come up with? No... if they wanted to make more money, they would lower the prices of things making more people buy them and it would result in more income. They have "sales" where the prices of lockbox's are cheaper. However they only split the price on bits, not scrip making some aspects of this game still pay to get.

If they were money hungry, which they aren't and I hope they never do this, but they would sell best individual weapons in the game on the bit store. Come on, if they put a canonner rad/bio needler up in that store for 15-20 bucks, so many people would buy it. But that would ruin the company because that would go against what defiance is. It is all rng, no need to go against your own system.

There is no excuse for making the encryption system along with making ark salvage useless. You just can't.

I know those days are gone, but a man can have dreams :D.

My comment "I would spend more money if I had a reason to, but I don't see one." was kinda off topic. It was more of just my opinion. I don't see the point on gambling in a free game. Paying for lockbox is literally gambling. You dump money into a rng and hope for the best. I can get lockboxs with in game currency even though it is a lot compared to before. So therefore I will not spend a dime on lockboxs. If they make a lockbox that you can only get by paying and it doesn't give you complete trash, then maybe I'll reconsider. That's all.

Tex_Arcana
10-16-2014, 12:45 PM
Any game company trying to make a FTP worth it's "salt" needs to look VERY hard at Wargaming (World of Tanks).
The only "leg-up" you can buy from them is higher earning potential for ingame currency and xp.
There are no "Super tanks" (weapons) or anything resembling OP weapon types.
I do hope Trion sticks to a pattern similar to that: Using Patron passes and other "items" to help levelling/earning, and not much else except cosmetic items.
With the final result being that once you hit the cap (all things being equal on loot) the playing field is even.

ProJH
10-16-2014, 01:05 PM
I joined +60 warmaster event so far. Killed it 10 times. Became mvp min.10 times. I got nothing useful.

SirServed
10-16-2014, 02:18 PM
I joined +60 warmaster event so far. Killed it 10 times. Became mvp min.10 times. I got nothing useful.
Let me know when your sample rate for kills nears 1,000, then we can talk.

hardy83
10-16-2014, 02:20 PM
Suck. lol

Seriously, consider that the WM needs an insane amount of coordination compared to everything else in the game, the rewards are absolute garbage. Whether you kill him or not.

I still think they should nerf him into the ground and make him no harder than any of the other bosses, or just remove the timer.

Put an expert version at a major arkbreak that makes the boss far harder WITH far better rewards or something, but as it stands, the Warmaster is one of the worst MMO content ever designed in my opinion.
Not to mention his can still bug how and warp around when he jumps up.

Mr666
10-16-2014, 03:16 PM
No. Because neither of them are good items. And I already am flooded with those items. Only useful for extortions.

Incase if you dont do math, jackpot wildcat is NOT NOT a perfect wildcat.
And regen shields are just bad.
A good item would be a canonner rad needler or a canonner rad quickshot blaster.The rolls on the gun is what I mean not the gun type its self

Mr666
10-16-2014, 03:20 PM
What if I told you that I'm a Rhino user and I own 3 Jackpot Wildcats but don't use any of them in the WM fight?I use Ironclads myself and I have the wildcat but don't use it either I use FRC or Frointer SAW for most everthing.

SirServed
10-16-2014, 03:22 PM
I use Ironclads myself and I have the wildcat but don't use it either I use FRC or Frointer SAW for most everthing.
For WM, you're going to want to use a Cat or Hound once the armor breaks. I use a Fire Wildcat for the +50% damage boost instead of the Jackpot.

satirized
10-16-2014, 04:07 PM
The rolls on the gun is what I mean not the gun type its self

Even with set rolls it have higher dps against a perfect rolled normal version.

As for Bio, all I am gonna say its I have probably A LOT more experience with it then you do. I could post proofs of all my past WM scores if you like lol. Given my result with canonner bio needler, bio is bad.