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View Full Version : Devs: What Extra-Life did right, why I'm worried about Halloween



SanCarioca
10-27-2014, 06:36 PM
I think the Extra-Life event hit some major milestones, and I hope to offer constructive criticism about it, that we can use to improve the Halloween event.

I speak from a "PS3 NA" point of view, but I read in the forum many of these observations below in other platforms, as well:

1) It was awesome to see so many people gathering around Extra Life (EL) Arkfalls. It showed me the full potential of Defiance, as a social game. Even if the EL Arkfalls were notghing else than regular Hellbug AFs, the excitement was visible in everyone. Offering the same old Arkfalls with exclusive, time-based, event-related rewards seems to be a major hit among the players. I now want to be chasing Leprechaun weaponry, Valentine's Shields (good for broken hearts), heck, I wouldn't mind if you threw in the Brazilian Independece Day in the mix (wink, wink);

2) At the same time, it was incredibly frustrating to encounter so much problems at these events. The main one I encountered coulnd't even be called "lag", it was a new form of "delay" where things would happen in the past. Example: I'd shoot my machine guns, and no animation would even start, although I could be moving around, freely. 5 minutes later (I kid you not), some enemy would be drop dead somewhere. That was actually funny, I felt like I was shooting mimes all over the place ("Oh, you shot me? Aaaaaargh!"). I herenow baptize this problem as "Jetlag";

3) Bottom line: in a limited, 2 day event, Defiance has shown us its best ideas yet, but with an execution that could not follow through it. Therefore, I'm very worried about the Halloween event. The EL event was just one regular arkfall with different rewards, meaning is the same engine we're used to, but upon a heavy load - and for what I can tell, even with these problems, it was a major success in the meaning that people really, really, *really* wanted to play it. Based on this, I'm afraid Trions's Servers won't be able to handle the Halloween event :(

4) And yes, I also noticed the low spawn rate of the EL Arkfalls on saturday, but sunday did improve it;

5) It would be great to hear from the devs (Kiwi?) what they found about the EL event. I know I've been having an exciting and frustating weekend with the event, but at least I cant tell you this: you have found a golden formula to spike people's interest up, as I've said in item 1. Please, please, please, consider it doing it regurlaly;

4) To finish on a high note: congratulations on Trionīs efforts about raising money for the kids. I saw that you raised $91,387 (WOW!), much higher than your 65k goal. This is awesome from all possible angles, so CONGRATULATIONS, Trion. I love charity drives, and you hit me on a soft spot with this project.

I fell short on my goal, raising only $250 out of $500, but had a lot of fun in doing it, and made it to page 3 of Trion's team: :D

http://www.extra-life.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=donorDrive.teamParticipants&page=3&teamID=16012

Bonehead
10-27-2014, 06:45 PM
Defiance has shown us its best ideas yet, but with an execution that could not follow through it.

You get used to that after a while.

Grats on the 250$. Well done m8.

JadedSinn
10-27-2014, 10:56 PM
not a dev but am a PTSer of the new event for halloween. its not like a normel ark fall that we know. its .. hmm diffrent. lets leave it like that but ill spill the beans on it a little.

this event does not need to be zirged like the EL ones. we have atleast 2 weeks with this event so we have time to get the guns we want and the mods for them. ahead of time im saying this to every one that has a clan so thy can pass it on to others. in there clan and also that do not come on the forum

for players on consol there is going to be lag. lots of it. i can see this now without even playing the event on a consol . becuse of the boost in old players returning to play the event. there will be larger groups of people at them then normel.

the new event also has a few flaws in it that are on PTS but i my self am hopeing that it will be change befor it hits live. is the spawn rate. it was low on pts vary low. and in the end its going to end up just like the EL event where every one is rushing to get into the events as fast as thy can.

the loot drop rate was also a little low on the pts i beleave thy may up that . so over all the event is going to be fun. and hopefuly it goes off without a hitch

crazyged
10-27-2014, 11:28 PM
I'm not really worried about the drops in the Hulker arkfalls - I just love the chaos!

Those runs we did on PTS, outnumbered and being smeared into the dirt were awesome.

I could do those all day!

Bonehead
10-27-2014, 11:52 PM
I just love the chaos!

Chaos ROCKS!

Surf it dude!

Rashere
10-28-2014, 11:53 AM
This is probably common knowledge, but just in case...

Basically, all events pull from a common pool. The best way to get events you want to come up is to make sure you're clearing every event that pops up between them.

I'm hoping to have more control over spawning special events like this in the future, but that's how it works right now.

Rashere

hardy83
10-28-2014, 12:31 PM
I expect that like EXL, the spawn rate for the events will be way too low and the drops most bleh.

Which is a shame because the Hulker majors are REALLY fun in their chaos driven way.

To which I'm sure I'll be on these forums asking to buy at least blue quality weapons because I gotta collect them all. :P Cept Chimera because I ain't grinding that! lol

TriGlav 2000
10-28-2014, 12:52 PM
All mobs in this new arkfall will only drop Hellfire weapons and ''The purge'' synergy mods. Yes, mods will drop in open world and you could also get them as end reward.

KingNephilim
10-28-2014, 01:13 PM
1) It was awesome to see so many people gathering around Extra Life (EL) Arkfalls. It showed me the full potential of Defiance, as a social game. Even if the EL Arkfalls were nothing else than regular Hellbug AFs, the excitement was visible in everyone. Offering the same old Arkfalls with exclusive, time-based, event-related rewards seems to be a major hit among the players. I now want to be chasing Leprechaun weaponry, Valentine's Shields (good for broken hearts), heck, I wouldn't mind if you threw in the Brazilian Independece Day in the mix (wink, wink);

This...

Even if having these sorts of events would be a bit 'gimmicky', they would also be fun, exciting & extremely chaotic, just like this one was despite its many downfalls.

SanCarioca
10-28-2014, 01:22 PM
This is probably common knowledge, but just in case...

Basically, all events pull from a common pool. The best way to get events you want to come up is to make sure you're clearing every event that pops up between them.

I'm hoping to have more control over spawning special events like this in the future, but that's how it works right now.

Rashere

Rashere, PhantasieTrion, KiwiBird, all Defiance Devs, you have my respect.

But please, take into account what everyone has been saying about spawn rates (not just EXL AFs). The forums are a small sample of the Defiance universe, I'm sure, still, all people seem to be complaining about these days is the spawn rate of this and that.

I just wanted to make sure this issue is not related only to special events. It is happenning, every day, ever since the patch that fixed major lag issues (and everybody thought -- incorrectly, after the devs explained --, that reducing the spawn rate was the method you used to reduce lag.

BTW, I cannot prove it to you, but I made sure to clear every arkfall in the main world, SF and SV during the EXL event, and still, they woulnd't pop up on saturday. But on Sunday, the situation did improve a lot, as I've told in the my OP. I did nothing different between these two days, so I assumed you guys were looking into it.

And how about the "Jetlag" observed?

SanCarioca
10-28-2014, 01:25 PM
This...

Even if having these sorts of events would be a bit 'gimmicky', they would also be fun, exciting & extremely chaotic, just like this one was despite its many downfalls.

KingNephilim, I'm with you, Bonehead and crazyged on this: I *adore* chaos in minor arkfalls! In the large ones you can't quite feel it, but this weekend, I felt like I was doorbusting through Black Friday, and laughing, laughing, laughing... it was amazing, and I want more, minus the jetlag.

Rashere
10-28-2014, 01:47 PM
Rashere, PhantasieTrion, KiwiBird, all Defiance Devs, you have my respect.

But please, take into account what everyone has been saying about spawn rates (not just EXL AFs). The forums are a small sample of the Defiance universe, I'm sure, still, all people seem to be complaining about these days is the spawn rate of this and that.

I just wanted to make sure this issue is not related only to special events. It is happenning, every day, ever since the patch that fixed major lag issues (and everybody thought -- incorrectly, after the devs explained --, that reducing the spawn rate was the method you used to reduce lag.

BTW, I cannot prove it to you, but I made sure to clear every arkfall in the main world, SF and SV during the EXL event, and still, they woulnd't pop up on saturday. But on Sunday, the situation did improve a lot, as I've told in the my OP. I did nothing different between these two days, so I assumed you guys were looking into it.

And how about the "Jetlag" observed?

The event spawn rate reduction had nothing to do with lag. In fact, it could actually do the opposite if we aren't careful since the goal is to have fewer events up at once so more players are involved in each event and it's been pretty successful in that regard.

The difficulty with special events is what I was trying to get at with my first post. All events are randomly pulled from a big pool and we have limited control over what is picked. There are some tricks we can do to try to get special events like EL and Halloween to spawn more frequently, but in the end, its largely at the mercy of the RNG.

That's something I want to address for future events, granting us more control over what events are spawned. For now, though, we're doing what we can to do ensure they're spawning enough. Players can help by slaughtering everything that spawns as quickly as possible in order to force new picks from the event pool...which I'm sure you'll have no problem with. ;)

Rashere

JadedSinn
10-28-2014, 02:45 PM
The event spawn rate reduction had nothing to do with lag. In fact, it could actually do the opposite if we aren't careful since the goal is to have fewer events up at once so more players are involved in each event and it's been pretty successful in that regard.

The difficulty with special events is what I was trying to get at with my first post. All events are randomly pulled from a big pool and we have limited control over what is picked. There are some tricks we can do to try to get special events like EL and Halloween to spawn more frequently, but in the end, its largely at the mercy of the RNG.

That's something I want to address for future events, granting us more control over what events are spawned. For now, though, we're doing what we can to do ensure they're spawning enough. Players can help by slaughtering everything that spawns as quickly as possible in order to force new picks from the event pool...which I'm sure you'll have no problem with. ;)

Rashere

^ thats pritty much how we had to do it on PTS and even then it resolted in an empty map for atleast 30 mins befor a minor arkfall appeared for the halloween event. once that was cleared there was a one in i think 1 in 6 chance it would spawn a major. and even more for the minors. o.o

i think the best thing to do would be to give the halloween event a higher priority then the other events so it allways " jumps " to the top of the list of events in the event quaie o.o just a thought. it might work. or just give it what id call a " bully " spawn rate so it bullys its way to the top of the RGN event list ...

anyway. i say shard hop. lots of it. in the end that will be the fastest way to hunt the event.

and dont worry about weapon drops. there will be planty along with the mods as well.

Mosiah TheSAVAGE
10-28-2014, 02:52 PM
Cant wait for hulker arkfalls!! Sounds like a challenge plus will help with Chimera contract a lot. I also seen the synergy and it looks pretty good but the problem is mods and stuff but Im sure they'll find a way. Hopefully some of us strike lucky and get the hellfire ojs lol

J8 Sky
10-28-2014, 03:19 PM
All they have to do is change the Hulker Major Arkfalls to how they changed the Darkmatter Major's.

Because what ever they did on the DM major, it worked really well , i see DM majors more then the other majors combined.

and if the Hulker Majors spawn like that , it will be a very successful Halloween event !

JadedSinn
10-28-2014, 04:00 PM
Cant wait for hulker arkfalls!! Sounds like a challenge plus will help with Chimera contract a lot. I also seen the synergy and it looks pretty good but the problem is mods and stuff but Im sure they'll find a way. Hopefully some of us strike lucky and get the hellfire ojs lol

the mods drop from enamys nothing purple only up to blues. so you will find planty of mods for the guns.

also the named OJS are lockbox only . thy do not drop from the arkfalls. and on PTS no one ever found an oj hellfire weapon so. purples what ull find of them :D and when u do u can upgread them to OJ on your own. anyway. over all

the arkfall will be great. aslong as we dont see the swarms we saw for EL

remeber we have 2 weeks to get what you want from the ark falls.

hardy83
10-28-2014, 04:20 PM
Hopefully they can make future changes to change the % chance of events being pulled from the RNG bag or being able to disable events completely for a time period sooner rather than later.

Also HD textures. :P

Atticus Batman
10-28-2014, 04:44 PM
The event spawn rate reduction had nothing to do with lag. In fact, it could actually do the opposite if we aren't careful since the goal is to have fewer events up at once so more players are involved in each event and it's been pretty successful in that regard.

The difficulty with special events is what I was trying to get at with my first post. All events are randomly pulled from a big pool and we have limited control over what is picked. There are some tricks we can do to try to get special events like EL and Halloween to spawn more frequently, but in the end, its largely at the mercy of the RNG.

That's something I want to address for future events, granting us more control over what events are spawned. For now, though, we're doing what we can to do ensure they're spawning enough. Players can help by slaughtering everything that spawns as quickly as possible in order to force new picks from the event pool...which I'm sure you'll have no problem with. ;)

Rashere

I'm not sure how it affects regular/extralife arkfalls, but on Saturday (on Xbox NA) Lots of people were doing Shadow wars and Warmasters. Could that be why Exl arkfalls didn't spawn that much?

CM Kiwibird
10-28-2014, 04:52 PM
It would be great to hear from the devs (Kiwi?) what they found about the EL event.

Well, I certainly found that it was amazing playing with everyone! Thanks again for joining us.

Rashere
10-28-2014, 05:42 PM
the mods drop from enamys nothing purple only up to blues. so you will find planty of mods for the guns.

also the named OJS are lockbox only . thy do not drop from the arkfalls. and on PTS no one ever found an oj hellfire weapon so. purples what ull find of them :D and when u do u can upgread them to OJ on your own. anyway. over all

the arkfall will be great. aslong as we dont see the swarms we saw for EL

remeber we have 2 weeks to get what you want from the ark falls.

The named guns can drop from the major Halloween arkfalls as well. They're just rare.

Rashere

Fubashi
10-28-2014, 05:59 PM
Even if it does not work quite as intended...it's cool that you guys are trying new things. Keep on keepin on!

SanCarioca
10-28-2014, 06:27 PM
I'm not sure how it affects regular/extralife arkfalls, but on Saturday (on Xbox NA) Lots of people were doing Shadow wars and Warmasters. Could that be why Exl arkfalls didn't spawn that much?

THIS^^^

Rashere, do you have a *separate* RNG module for each different kind of event (one for Arkfalls, one for Sieges, one for Incursions, etc), or is it only one "master RNG" for everything... like TRON? :)

Because that did not work well in TRON, you know. :)

When I told you I was clearing Arkfalls as fast as I could, I was under the impression that, If I did that, new Arkfalls would pop in. But there were still sieges and incursions going on, that I didn't care about clearing, since I was focused on the EXL AFs. And still, as JadedSinn pointed out, I would clear all Arkfalls in the 3 maps, and still would sit there, for half an hour, waiting for new AFs to pop in.

The only thing I did not clear was minor/major arkfalls impact sites. Would that be an issue?

I think this conversation is very interesting, thank you for participating.

SanCarioca
10-28-2014, 06:32 PM
anyway. i say shard hop. lots of it. in the end that will be the fastest way to hunt the event.


JadedSinn, I always read about "shard hoping" in the forums, but I admit I don't quite know what this means.

How does one do it? Logging out/in again? Or just jumping to a fast travel point?

Dixie Cougar
10-28-2014, 06:50 PM
That's something I want to address for future events, granting us more control over what events are spawned. For now, though, we're doing what we can to do ensure they're spawning enough. Players can help by slaughtering everything that spawns as quickly as possible in order to force new picks from the event pool...which I'm sure you'll have no problem with.


Well I don't know about that. It's hardly surprising that during a 2 day event people aren't as interested in doing anything that is not germane to the event and as a result grow impatient and dissatisfied. If you only have a few hours to play you want to be able to laser-focus on chasing the drops that will go away in <48 hours. In general you want people to pace themselves, but in an all-out event like this it can be frustrating. Imagine running a race and being forced to run an extra 100 yards every lap that 'doesn't count' toward your time.

Another relevant factor affecting the overall fun is that doing any arkfalls, etc takes concentration and not everyone can check the map every minute (which you kind of had to do because the EL arkfalls disappeared so quickly). So if you're "doing your part" you can miss out on the very thing you were after in the first place! I was relatively well networked and didn't have too many problems (clan and friend callouts helped bigtime) but from reading player comments this was far from universal.


JadedSinn, I always read about "shard hoping" in the forums, but I admit I don't quite know what this means.

How does one do it? Logging out/in again? Or just jumping to a fast travel point?

Changing instances (shards, phases, etc) of the game, mostly by traveling to friends/clanmates or login/logout. Sometimes a very useful thing to do as different events are happening in different "phases". Think of it as parallel dimensions you can move between to see and do different things.

The need to "shard hop" in order to find sufficient activities may be seen as a symptom of flawed event generation (Saturday morning of the EL event). However it's also a popular tool for getting your adrenaline rush on in general.

Dixie Cougar
10-28-2014, 06:51 PM
double post

JadedSinn
10-28-2014, 07:24 PM
The named guns can drop from the major Halloween arkfalls as well. They're just rare.

Rashere

thats for clearafieing that. trick had stated on the live stream last week or so when he was demoing the pumpkin head and such said it was lock box only. thanks for clearing that up for me

JadedSinn
10-28-2014, 07:28 PM
The need to "shard hop" in order to find sufficient activities may be seen as a symptom of flawed event generation (Saturday morning of the EL event). However it's also a popular tool for getting your adrenaline rush on in general.

its also a heck of a way to farm something that your looking for. with an event like this is alows you to speed though areas and gather items, mods, weapons, and other things that u couldnt normaly get. it is also done on other MMOS but thats channel hoping or server hoping .

defiance has clones of one main shard. there is a cap of XXX (( dont recall the number )) for each " shard " if you have an exstinsive enough friends list or a large enough clan you can make the search or as i call it " the hunt " alot easyer.

Chump Norris
10-28-2014, 09:21 PM
The event spawn rate reduction had nothing to do with lag. In fact, it could actually do the opposite if we aren't careful since the goal is to have fewer events up at once so more players are involved in each event and it's been pretty successful in that regard.

The difficulty with special events is what I was trying to get at with my first post. All events are randomly pulled from a big pool and we have limited control over what is picked. There are some tricks we can do to try to get special events like EL and Halloween to spawn more frequently, but in the end, its largely at the mercy of the RNG.

That's something I want to address for future events, granting us more control over what events are spawned. For now, though, we're doing what we can to do ensure they're spawning enough. Players can help by slaughtering everything that spawns as quickly as possible in order to force new picks from the event pool...which I'm sure you'll have no problem with. ;)

Rashere

Would you be willing to add it to the pool a few times so its something like:

Hellbug Major 1
Hellbug Major 2
Hellbug Major 3
Scrapper Major
Dark Matter Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major

Ok I probably went overboard but you should get what im asking for :)

squidgod2000
10-29-2014, 07:48 AM
2) At the same time, it was incredibly frustrating to encounter so much problems at these events. The main one I encountered coulnd't even be called "lag", it was a new form of "delay" where things would happen in the past. Example: I'd shoot my machine guns, and no animation would even start, although I could be moving around, freely. 5 minutes later (I kid you not), some enemy would be drop dead somewhere. That was actually funny, I felt like I was shooting mimes all over the place ("Oh, you shot me? Aaaaaargh!"). I herenow baptize this problem as "Jetlag";

I don't know what you guys did to the game in that July patch, but it has been a laggy sh*tstorm (PCNA) ever since--depsite all the claims of fixing the lag and crashes in subsequent patches.

The only positive from my limited time in Defiance during Extra Life was that while it was a laggy mess with frequent hitching/running in place (other player models), disappearing/reappearing enemies and "Jetlag," I didn't technically crit out. So while the game may have been unplayble, I was able to remain logged in. I guess that's something.

Rashere
10-29-2014, 10:37 AM
Would you be willing to add it to the pool a few times so its something like:

Hellbug Major 1
Hellbug Major 2
Hellbug Major 3
Scrapper Major
Dark Matter Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major
Halloween Major

Ok I probably went overboard but you should get what im asking for :)

That's effectively what we've been doing in order to increase the chances of them being selected. Now you're getting into the sausage making, though. ;)

Rashere

Baines
10-29-2014, 02:24 PM
I don't know what you guys did to the game in that July patch, but it has been a laggy sh*tstorm (PCNA) ever since--depsite all the claims of fixing the lag and crashes in subsequent patches.

Playing PCNA, they have mostly patched over the lag in the last few weeks. It isn't gone entirely, and I think in some cases it is just hidden in some different ways, but PCNA has been fairly playable lately. It still creaks at the edges when you have too many people in the same area, your vehicles still randomly disappears out from under you, racing pursuits can still be made pointlessly difficult when the game renders and updates arches slower than necessary, but now enemies almost always die when you shoot them (excepting of course issues not related to lag like the rocket launcher shots randomly not damaging enemies), the freezes are gone (though a few times I've seen the game stop drawing all enemies and/or players in situations that previously would have been unplayable due to lag), the stop-start pausing is gone (though I wonder if this is partially from being better hidden now).

It seems most of the comments from PC players have been that the game has improved greatly as of late.

Telemachus
11-06-2014, 06:40 AM
Couldn't you add the special events on a separate schedule of arkfall-like list?


So it would be not interfering with the common arkfall types , yet you could schedule them on their own time table ?