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Chris Robet
11-14-2014, 05:48 PM
So I've been wondering lately what reason was there for putting timer on the warmaster locks? It seems to me that it made gameplay worse rather than better when that feature was added.

Dixie Cougar
11-14-2014, 05:51 PM
So I've been wondering lately what reason was there for putting timer on the warmaster locks? It seems to me that it made gameplay worse rather than better when that feature was added.

Because someone decided that people who actually wanted to wait 15-30 mins to gather a team that could beat him were holding the "I want my score xp and I want it now" lock breakers, in their words, "hostage."

As I've said elsewhere, I disagree with this and agree completely with what you said, but oh well, the WM is only a small part of the game. I join when invited by large pre-organized groups (the only ones with a chance of beating him now) and otherwise have my fun elsewhere.

Chris Robet
11-14-2014, 05:58 PM
The warmaster has become my obsession lately we don't have any clans like Cronus and what not that PC has on PSN (I tried making a clan once training people up to fight the warmster using methods people used in pay to play but I disbanded when I realized no one was listening to me) so getting people organized is completely impossible.

Dixie Cougar
11-14-2014, 06:01 PM
The warmaster is like the tax code--a beast that derives most of its beastliness from flaws in human nature compounded by well intentioned but counterproductive intervention from on high.

Chris Robet
11-14-2014, 06:03 PM
Ah well no point complaining right? I suppose I'll keep wasting scrip on ark batteries until I get lucky and kill him and i'm abl to give up this unhealthy obsession.

TheOz
11-17-2014, 07:53 PM
Because someone decided that people who actually wanted to wait 15-30 mins to gather a team that could beat him were holding the "I want my score xp and I want it now" lock breakers, in their words, "hostage."

As I've said elsewhere, I disagree with this and agree completely with what you said, but oh well, the WM is only a small part of the game. I join when invited by large pre-organized groups (the only ones with a chance of beating him now) and otherwise have my fun elsewhere.

The best part about those wait times was talking to friends and clanmates. At times the fight was anti-climatic.
Too bad Destiny does not have any IN GAME clan features - I would love to have the Defiance clan experience over there. Just very empty right now.

Bentu
11-17-2014, 08:45 PM
Ah well no point complaining right? I suppose I'll keep wasting scrip on ark batteries until I get lucky and kill him and i'm abl to give up this unhealthy obsession.

You'll have better luck soloing him than trying to get in a large enough group.

Xaat Xuun
11-18-2014, 01:07 AM
You'll have better luck soloing him than trying to get in a large enough group.
very true

wish I could solo him on live, every time I think I am going to, I step inside, and find another 2 dozen players. I soloed the whole outside for no reason.
I have done better soloing WM (on PTS), just needed a few more seconds, on live I hardly get a chance ever seeing the crystals gone, half the group is shooting the arm, the other half the back
I have never seen an organized group yet. I've read about them here on the forums, . . . seen some youtube (if it wasn't for Youtube I wouldn't had believed the post)
I don't bother with my main, but my current alt still needs the kill

Atticus Batman
11-18-2014, 03:16 AM
very true

wish I could solo him on live, every time I think I am going to, I step inside, and find another 2 dozen players. I soloed the whole outside for no reason.
I have done better soloing WM (on PTS), just needed a few more seconds, on live I hardly get a chance ever seeing the crystals gone, half the group is shooting the arm, the other half the back
I have never seen an organized group yet. I've read about them here on the forums, . . . seen some youtube (if it wasn't for Youtube I wouldn't had believed the post)
I don't bother with my main, but my current alt still needs the kill

Most of us that used to do and organize the monkey quit messing with him, after the last nerf to it's loot tables and the timers being added. There are still some good players organizing on PC Na from what I've heard, but most of us on Xbox quit doing it. So now most of them are done by noobs and newbs who want to troll or have no clue, respectively.

crazyged
11-18-2014, 04:10 AM
My clan and I are finding the the timer is not much of a hindrance - it's more than enough time to find a clean instance and invite heavy hitters.

Then, a coupla seconds before the locks break, it's down with ammo and damage spikes and boom - down goes monkey.

DEATHBRINGER210
11-18-2014, 04:17 AM
working as intended

Dixie Cougar
11-18-2014, 04:29 AM
My clan and I are finding the the timer is not much of a hindrance - it's more than enough time to find a clean instance and invite heavy hitters.

Then, a coupla seconds before the locks break, it's down with ammo and damage spikes and boom - down goes monkey.

That's great for you guys, but it's a very tall order to pug him anymore. Which, given the open world way the encounter is triggered, kind of sucks. I have been going into WMs on my alt (underleveled but very well equipped for wm thanks to HH) and every pug is plagued with the same thing in varying degrees: lock shooters (as pointed out ad nauseum, this is worsened by EGO telling people to do it), BMGers, et cetera no matter how much the vets try to "coach" them. If by some miracle the locks don't get shot open, the timer ensures that not enough players will wander in. Most of the time the armor does not break. Yay, score XP.

The WM is a 'raid' demanding a level of cohesion (not killing the last viscera, not shooting the locks, converging on the same piont that does not fit in with the "go forth, find events, form improvised teams, and slay monsters" atmosphere pervading the rest of the game. Before the timers were put in, it was nevertheless sometimes possible to achieve this in a PUG if you were lucky and didn't get lock shooters. Now, not so much. If you aren't organized from the get go you're screwed, GG no re. Which in most games built around organized raids would be fine, but in Defiance it's a cluster. When I'm on my main and I see people zone-calling for the WM, I just roll my eyes because I know exactly how it's going to end--with the WM TBing all the BMG spammers crawling around on the floor.

Then there's the whole 'call down WM, fight your way inside, drop into a fail WM with 30 seconds left and full armor'. That really should not be happening.

At the end of the day I think this is the way it is because of the shift in revenue model... in other areas the need for nerfed rewards has been acknowledged and I wonder if the whole "hostage" rant was simply a diversion from that reality. This is not a conspiracy theory, the staff has to eat and the company has to make money. That's fine, and I wouldn't have taken offense at a statement like "we want people to buy lockboxes, so we intentionally cut down the WM success rate [yes, I know not everything in WM is available via lockboxes, but loot frustration is not purely encounter or item specific]." That being much better than the insane proposition that it's legitimate (or even somehow morally superior, as the post made at the time implied) to shoot the locks and fail miserably to get score xp and green guns rather than wait for more people.

It is unfortunate, but as I have said elsewhere at least they didn't pack all the good stuff into the WM and you can get great drops by other means.

WanWhiteWolf
11-18-2014, 04:33 AM
PC EU/NA have no issue in taking him down. We do it daily. If it makes you feel better, the rewards are bad. I've been in around 50 WM wins since the lock breaks and I got 1 legendary (BMG) in all these runs. Besides that, I got lucky with 2 nice purples. But if you look at the % , you will change your mind doing WM for the loot.

We do it because there simply isn't to much on the map going. It's either that, or minor bug arkfalls. The siege spawn rate is to low and the incursions reward 15 keys after 45 min participation.

If you want to beat WM, you need 20 + people. You can do it with less, provided you have enough experience/custom builds. Once you get to a good instance, invite your people, then kick them from the group. Repeat until everyone is in. If you are fast enough, you will do it before the randoms break the locks.

Dixie Cougar
11-18-2014, 04:46 AM
Yes, that's what we used to do. Only now we have only a few minutes to do it because instead of fixing the locks they broke them even more. The fact that this "feature" does not hinder you in a well organized group does not mean that it's beneficial to anyone else but the Leeroy Jenkinses of the playerbase that don't care if they fail and simply want to spray bullets into the monkey's left arm for 7 minutes.

I'm glad people are still able to kill him, I just think it's a shame that killing him has been put far out of reach for anyone who isn't well networked. I can still get kills on him when invited by friends in larger clans, but otherwise, why bother?

There are surely plenty of people who don't even get the chances I get and I find that unfortunate.

WanWhiteWolf
11-18-2014, 09:53 AM
Yes, that's what we used to do. Only now we have only a few minutes to do it because instead of fixing the locks they broke them even more. The fact that this "feature" does not hinder you in a well organized group does not mean that it's beneficial to anyone else but the Leeroy Jenkinses of the playerbase that don't care if they fail and simply want to spray bullets into the monkey's left arm for 7 minutes.

I'm glad people are still able to kill him, I just think it's a shame that killing him has been put far out of reach for anyone who isn't well networked. I can still get kills on him when invited by friends in larger clans, but otherwise, why bother?

There are surely plenty of people who don't even get the chances I get and I find that unfortunate.

Well, in a way I do agree that the final boss should be a team effort, not a solo one. This works as it should. You will lose even if you have a perfect WM build and bad team ; and you will win if you simply watch the battle with a good team.

The only problem is that you cannot entirely select your team. I don't mind helping others/going with low egos at WM, but in my experience most random players are either trolls, either crimefighter users. After a match with 3 BMG, 7 crimefighters and 5 volge users I am color blind for 20 minutes. Not to mention that we have to push ourselves to pull their weight since their DPS is too the ground.

And to put the cherry on top.... we get the same rewards at the end with a tiny tiny % to get a good weapon.

So if you stay afk, use only BMG to "hurt" WM's arm, spam flash grenades to blind others, use rockets to shoot WM in the face ...etc will give you the same reward chance as the one who has a perfect WM build and did 100 times more damage.

Bonehead
11-18-2014, 10:55 AM
At the end of the day I think this is the way it is because of the shift in revenue model...

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/clip-art-bingo-442587_zps130b9ebf.jpg

KILLSHOT707
11-18-2014, 11:13 AM
The way it was should not have been messed with. If people did not want to wait they could simply break the locks or leave. It was a great event for clans to get together. Our clan would do warmasters all day. Now everyone finds it a waste of time. This event was a large part of the game, this change and many other bad choices have made xbox dead. The patches Trion comes up with are one step forward and two back. But hey, we will all be able to dance easily soon..............

crazyged
11-18-2014, 11:14 AM
And to put the cherry on top.... we get the same rewards at the end with a tiny tiny % to get a good weapon.

For me, the cherry on top is just seeing him fall over and shatter. :D