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View Full Version : Electric and Syphon in the rolls table



BlackTalons
11-17-2014, 09:16 AM
Would someone miss them if they are temporarily removed from the Lockboxes rolls table? They are currently one big factor in ruining what otherwise would be a nice weapon. They are so bad that moding it with another nano is mandatory to have a reliable damage output, barring any other magazine mods (Reload, Mag size, Burst, etc.).

They could be added to the long list of rolls/weapons that need a revision, so they could be out for a while and come back stronger. My sig has a suggestion thread about how to rebalance nano effects.

edispilfnairb
11-17-2014, 09:18 AM
To this day I still can not believe how badly they nerfed my syphon.

edispilfnairb
11-17-2014, 09:19 AM
Now if they had Syphon purge weapons, that would be awesome!!!:cool:

ArthriticNed
11-17-2014, 09:40 AM
Now if they had Syphon purge weapons, that would be awesome!!!:cool:


Obviously you havent fully modded a purge weapon or dont pay attention to its effects. Once fully modded, theyre as good if not better than syphon itself.

Lubber
11-17-2014, 09:53 AM
Obviously you havent fully modded a purge weapon or dont pay attention to its effects. Once fully modded, theyre as good if not better than syphon itself.

I believe his desire is to have both at the same time =)

As for OP - my vote is YES, until reworked (because I may see potential in electric nano).

edispilfnairb
11-17-2014, 09:55 AM
Obviously you havent fully modded a purge weapon or dont pay attention to its effects. Once fully modded, theyre as good if not better than syphon itself.
Really man??? Are you trolling me or something???

I said I would love if my Syphon had the purge synergy, IE it would be a welcome buff since the nerf.
I have all the named purge weapons, except the Demonhunter. They are all modded and I am very versed in their effects, hence the reason why I said I would love the synergy on my syphon weapons.

Edit: if Syphon had purge there would be no need for a rework and people would find it more desirable again.

Menov
11-17-2014, 09:58 AM
Would someone miss them if they are temporarily removed from the Lockboxes rolls table? They are currently one big factor in ruining what otherwise would be a nice weapon. They are so bad that moding it with another nano is mandatory to have a reliable damage output, barring any other magazine mods (Reload, Mag size, Burst, etc.).

They could be added to the long list of rolls/weapons that need a revision, so they could be out for a while and come back stronger. My sig has a suggestion thread about how to rebalance nano effects.

Electric weapons still are the best for defeating 99'ers and destroying shields on Volge.

Syphon has its advantages when it has 2xfire rate rolls, just as good as any BMG.

I agree they need a little polish.

ArthriticNed
11-17-2014, 10:22 AM
I believe his desire is to have both at the same time =)

As for OP - my vote is YES, until reworked (because I may see potential in electric nano).

But it is both at the same time....1 weapon does fire dmg and syphon dmg at the same time when fully modded.

ArthriticNed
11-17-2014, 10:26 AM
Really man??? Are you trolling me or something???

I said I would love if my Syphon had the purge synergy, IE it would be a welcome buff since the nerf.
I have all the named purge weapons, except the Demonhunter. They are all modded and I am very versed in their effects, hence the reason why I said I would love the synergy on my syphon weapons.

Edit: if Syphon had purge there would be no need for a rework and people would find it more desirable again.


And no not trolling. You actually said you would like syphon purge weapons, which we sort of have. You did not however specifically say you wished your sypon weapons had The Purge synergy, a statement in which i wouldve agreed.

BC001
11-17-2014, 10:53 AM
I wish the purge weapons would make the syphon "boom" noise or something when they lifesteal, while they must be doing it some time I never seem to be able to catch it on the damage track.

I do not think removing the two nanos from the lockboxes like the OP suggested would be a good idea; it would be better to leave them and fix the nanos "in place" unless it is something that has to be done individually on each weapon and would not automatically upgrade for weapons in inventory.

The syphon damage penalty is a little too severe, it takes weapons like the Thunder that are on the edge of usability and pushes them so low in dps that it takes a full clip or two of hosing down skitterlings to kill them and anything with a good regen is practically immune to them. Other, higher dps weapons can handle the dmg hit and still be useful though so it is not a totally broken nano in the meantime.

Electric is still the best way to handle most of the shielded mobs, paring an electric nano weapon with a fire one is a good loadout combo. It does need some polish (and the use of the electric nano perks helps a lot) but it is likewise still useful enough to not stop them entirely till the nano is fixed.

Nefarious
11-17-2014, 11:07 AM
Syphon is fine as is. With it on full auto weapons is beastly. You unload on a enemy and your Shields and HP shoot up to full.

Shock could use a little work but its nothing that's so bad that it needs to be taking out of the loot table. For what Shock does it does good, it just so happens that there's no high demand for it against PvE enemies i.e.- 99ers. The game never calls upon the player to lean towards switching to shock for a certain enemy type. Its enemies that need to be changed for Shock to be good, not so much Shock itself.

edispilfnairb
11-17-2014, 11:09 AM
And no not trolling. You actually said you would like syphon purge weapons, which we sort of have. You did not however specifically say you wished your sypon weapons had The Purge synergy, a statement in which i wouldve agreed.

Ahh nevermind
I will not feed the rock troll.

edispilfnairb
11-17-2014, 11:24 AM
(
Syphon is fine as is. With it on full auto weapons is beastly. You unload on a enemy and your Shields and HP shoot up to full.

Shock could use a little work but its nothing that's so bad that it needs to be taking out of the loot table. For what Shock does it does good, it just so happens that there's no high demand for it against PvE enemies i.e.- 99ers. The game never calls upon the player to lean towards switching to shock for a certain enemy type. Its enemies that need to be changed for Shock to be good, not so much Shock itself.

I am sorry but the majority of my 450 inventory slots are syphon weapons. And it is anything but beastly since the nano changes.It received way to much of a card dmg nerf and penalties versus everything . The life stealing abilities does not make up for that. The game has become an 80% Bio and Radiation dominated world. Electric nano is even worse. Now we have Purge that does a much better job at life stealing while greatly out damaging Syphon. Making the current version of Syphon further undesirable.

DEATHBRINGER210
11-17-2014, 12:16 PM
would the nano effect trigger mod help syphon out ?

Nefarious
11-17-2014, 01:11 PM
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I am sorry but the majority of my 450 inventory slots are syphon weapons. And it is anything but beastly since the nano changes.It received way to much of a card dmg nerf and penalties versus everything . The life stealing abilities does not make up for that. The game has become an 80% Bio and Radiation dominated world. Electric nano is even worse. Now we have Purge that does a much better job at life stealing while greatly out damaging Syphon. Making the current version of Syphon further undesirable.

Well if you just want to match things up side by side you could look at it that way. But when taking everything into consideration not so much. Purge is limited to the mods for it (which are rare) while other weapons that have Syphon should be considered with whatever synergy that might be coupled with it. So saying the whole Purge Synergy plus its Fire Nano vs just Syphon alone isn't a even comparison.

And Shock only seems bad since theres nothing in the game that calls to use it. If 99ers/Dark Matter had stronger shields or faster regens then Shock wouldn't be so lack luster as it would be a better option for those enemy types.

BC001
11-17-2014, 01:14 PM
would the nano effect trigger mod help syphon out ?

Not particularly. The blue catalyst clips only add 10% chance to proc, which is not a lot on most weapons unless they happen to have nano-boosting synergies of some kind on top of it. I had a Northstar that I tried without the catalyst clip and with and there was little or no noticeable difference for instance (I ended up replacing it with a clip expander instead). Even with faster firing weapons the clip makes little difference; I tried a syphon Thunder without the catalyst, noted how often it "boomed", added it in and repeated the previous encounter and there was not much if any difference in the frequency of "boom" occurrences.

One funny thing I noticed about Northstars with syphon is that the burning can trigger it and not just direct hits so that if you are very lucky flaming a big pack of mobs can occasionally trigger off a kind of popcorn storm of procs, but it is not reliable enough to count on.

edispilfnairb
11-17-2014, 01:25 PM
well apparently the development don't feel the same way as you nerfy as they are buffing syphons damage 15%. Thats the best news I have got on this game in a long time . And purge mods are not rare. And it is a great comparison they gave fire nano a proc buff and better healing and damage then syphon. How is that not a good comparison when the only thing syphon had going for it was healing? Now that a fire gun does syphons job better with a hell of a lot more dmg in every scenario why would anyone ever use syphon??

BC001
11-17-2014, 02:08 PM
well apparently the development don't feel the same way as you nerfy as they are buffing syphons damage 15%. Thats the best news I have got on this game in a long time . And purge mods are not rare. And it is a great comparison they gave fire nano a proc buff and better healing and damage then syphon. How is that not a good comparison when the only thing syphon had going for it was healing? Now that a fire gun does syphons job better with a hell of a lot more dmg in every scenario why would anyone ever use syphon??

The buff to syphon damage is good news, it should be just enough to make lower dps weapons like the Thunder useable with syphon again. I have an EXL Lifesteal lmg that I like a lot because it is similar to the Thunder with syphon but still deals enough damage to be useful. The idea that regular Thunders with sypon may soon come close in usability is very appealing since they can drop at any time instead of just one weekend a year.

Nefarious
11-17-2014, 03:11 PM
well apparently the development don't feel the same way as you nerfy as they are buffing syphons damage 15%. Thats the best news I have got on this game in a long time . And purge mods are not rare. And it is a great comparison they gave fire nano a proc buff and better healing and damage then syphon. How is that not a good comparison when the only thing syphon had going for it was healing? Now that a fire gun does syphons job better with a hell of a lot more dmg in every scenario why would anyone ever use syphon??

Yeah Purge mods are not rare as of the moment since the event that dropped and granted them just ended a few days ago but sure enough they will be and the good ones are going to be near none existent. And saying something like why would anyone want to use Syphon over a Fire nano gun that does the same thing is like saying why would anyone want to use a Ironclad shield over a Darkest Hour one. Its not really much of a broad choice since not everyone has top line Purge Guns with Epic Purge mods to go with. And even then they are not outclassing everything else.

I personally have no problem with Syphon. I can stand in front of Dekuso while he is hitting me with his beam attack on Expert and have my shield stay at a stand still as long as Im shooting him. If my shield ever goes down its back up within moments as long as Im hitting a target which is really easy to do in PvE. So how something that makes players near invincible as long as they have ammo in their mag is being considered underpowered is pretty far out there. But if they are going to make Syphon stronger more power to me I guess. But imo I don't think it needs it.

edispilfnairb
11-17-2014, 03:40 PM
Yeah Purge mods are not rare as of the moment since the event that dropped and granted them just ended a few days ago but sure enough they will be and the good ones are going to be near none existent. And saying something like why would anyone want to use Syphon over a Fire nano gun that does the same thing is like saying why would anyone want to use a Ironclad shield over a Darkest Hour one. Its not really much of a broad choice since not everyone has top line Purge Guns with Epic Purge mods to go with. And even then they are not outclassing everything else.

I personally have no problem with Syphon. I can stand in front of Dekuso while he is hitting me with his beam attack on Expert and have my shield stay at a stand still as long as Im shooting him. If my shield ever goes down its back up within moments as long as Im hitting a target which is really easy to do in PvE. So how something that makes players near invincible as long as they have ammo in their mag is being considered underpowered is pretty far out there. But if they are going to make Syphon stronger more power to me I guess. But imo I don't think it needs it.

I am sorry, but I call BS. You are not going to take a full beam shot from Dekuso and have your shield not break on expert, while shooting him with syphon unless your glitched. Syphon DOES not steal that much health back to overcome that kind of damage.

Like I said my inventory is full of the best syphon weapons you can get. I know its limits. My purge weapons far outclass my Syphon weapons currently( And yes I have awesome purple modded purge weapons, but my Syphon collection is similar and in most cases modded better). That makes me sad because I love syphon.

Syphons dmg output is so low that you end up shooting most TL10 mobs for 1.5 -3 times longer then with radiation or bio or the purge fire. The life steal effect does not compensate enough for that low damage penalty that syphon has. This 15% change will balance it again.

I am glad you have no personal problem with syphon, but I am a syphon fanatic and you are dead wrong on this.
The majority of people DO not want Syphon anymore. The majority do not use it in PVP. Why is this if the nano is so good???

I will not respond to whatever you write next Nerfy, like I said you are dead wrong on Syphon, and more so on electric.
Electric is complete garbage in its current state. It should not have a penalty versus health, after all electric BURNS.

Nefarious
11-17-2014, 04:24 PM
I never said Shock was "good". I said that its good at what it does and that's against shields which it is, but the game doesn't call for a player to have a need to use Shock since Shield based enemies really don't have that strong of shields to begin with. If they did then Shock would be more prevalent against them. In PvP Shock is the best support as you can just spread shots all over enemy players and knock their shields down at a quick pace leaving them utterly vulnerable to send them running or have teammates wipe them out. A Shock Disruptor is great for this.

With Syphon though I don't see a boost changing its performance that much as the amount of shots to kill enemies is going to round off roughly the same anyway. So either way not much is going to change for it but in any case I never thought it needed a boost.

And Im not lying about taking heaps of DMG and not having my shield break or come anywhere close to. Try using a high mag AR and a high cap shield and you would know what I mean about being near invincible when using Syphon in PvE. If you are such the expert on Syphon as you say you are you would of known this. I do stand in front of Dekuso and going head to head with him as he hits me with his beam attack on Expert. Its something I like to do because its like a DBZ power battle.

SirServed
11-17-2014, 04:27 PM
Well, a lot of users currently use Syphon simply because they find the game difficult (not challenging) for them on some level and they feel the extra healing is worth the damage cut (aware of the penalty or not). The way I see it, the Syphon experience will only get better for those that choose to wield it.