PDA

View Full Version : My concern is beginning to grow for the player base of this game



GrampaMurkedU
04-04-2013, 07:02 AM
I understand this is an MMO. I also understand this is a console player base we're talking about. Many players simply won't wait around for a fix that may or may not ever come. Many of them are thinking they must trade or sale the game while its still new and has the most value.

The best example I can give is Homefront. Almost all of my friends bought that game at launch. It was a disaster at launch and much like these recent patches their first day patches did nothing to make the online playable. As the days went buy more and more of them got rid of the game. It went so poorly for the developers that KAOS studios went under eventually.

Now im not saying that is going to happen hear but with each passing day I guarantee you that the player base is thinning. If this continues to long like it did with homefront the players lost could seriously damage things to come. I held onto Homefront for nearly 2 months waiting for a fix that they promised was coming but never materialized.

Most xbox gamers probably won't wait much more than a week, possibly two. It's not like they can play the single player offline while waiting foe online to be fixed.

MagellanD
04-04-2013, 07:03 AM
I understand this is an MMO. I also understand this is a console player base we're talking about. Many players simply won't wait around for a fix that may or may not ever come. Many of them are thinking they must trade or sale the game while its still new and has the most value.

The best example I can give is Homefront. Almost all of my friends bought that game at launch. It was a disaster at launch and much like these recent patches their first day patches did nothing to make the online playable. As the days went buy more and more of them got rid of the game. It went so poorly for the developers that KAOS studios went under eventually.

Now im not saying that is going to happen hear but with each passing day I guarantee you that the player base is thinning. If this continues to long like it did with homefront the players lost could seriously damage things to come. I held onto Homefront for nearly 2 months waiting for a fix that they promised was coming but never materialized.

Most xbox gamers probably won't wait much more than a week, possibly two. It's not like they can play the single player offline while waiting foe online to be fixed.

I'm invested in the game and patient enough to not be a whiney ****** as I have a technical background and understand what the humans on the other end are accomplishing.

GrampaMurkedU
04-04-2013, 07:05 AM
I'm invested in the game and patient enough to not be a whiney ****** as I have a technical background and understand what the humans on the other end are accomplishing.

And im sure many like you and me are. But just as many or more may not.

MagellanD
04-04-2013, 07:07 AM
And im sure many like you and me are. But just as many or more may not.
Let em whine. It'll clean up the community in time, all evolution like. Then our word of mouth will get our friends on. The people we want to play with anyway.

Dr D Wayne Love
04-04-2013, 07:07 AM
THQ didn't close Kaos Studios because people traded in Homefront.

GrampaMurkedU
04-04-2013, 07:09 AM
Keep in mind we forum posters are the vocal minority. The vast majority of players will never visit this forum or site. They will simply give up After awhile.

TriDawg
04-04-2013, 07:11 AM
I'm invested in the game and patient enough to not be a whiney ****** as I have a technical background and understand what the humans on the other end are accomplishing.

So am I, that's why I waited to see the results/level of support this game would receive this first week. My pre-order will be picked up tomorrow. However, I understand exactly what the OP is saying, and he/she is correct. Console gamers are not conditioned to receiving continuous updates to an unplayable and/or glitched game. They are used to paying $60 putting the game into their machine and playing. When they are done playing they take it back to Gamestop, etc. and are using the trade-in value for the next big hit game that just released this week. Next week, or next month, they repeat the process. It's the main reason console games drop in value so quickly unless they have a) A HUGE following, that can sustain growth and playability after the initial onslaught subsides, or b) An established reputation for supporting and evolving the game and it's premise. Unfortunately Trion does not have A, and is working on B....Hopefully these first few days examples of support, and continued support, will help this game to grow.

GrampaMurkedU
04-04-2013, 07:12 AM
THQ didn't close Kaos Studios because people traded in Homefront.

The game was a critical flop and a friend of mine who worked for KAOS said the failure was tied to their break up. In fact the IP was one of the last things to be picked up at the auction.

Karagra
04-04-2013, 07:14 AM
I understand this is an MMO. I also understand this is a console player base we're talking about. Many players simply won't wait around for a fix that may or may not ever come. Many of them are thinking they must trade or sale the game while its still new and has the most value.

The best example I can give is Homefront. Almost all of my friends bought that game at launch. It was a disaster at launch and much like these recent patches their first day patches did nothing to make the online playable. As the days went buy more and more of them got rid of the game. It went so poorly for the developers that KAOS studios went under eventually.

Now im not saying that is going to happen hear but with each passing day I guarantee you that the player base is thinning. If this continues to long like it did with homefront the players lost could seriously damage things to come. I held onto Homefront for nearly 2 months waiting for a fix that they promised was coming but never materialized.

Most xbox gamers probably won't wait much more than a week, possibly two. It's not like they can play the single player offline while waiting foe online to be fixed.

Honestly the way I look at it is that the knowledgeable of the situation will stay and wait while the ones who keep threatening to quit (younger player base) will slowly fade away. This will most likely bring about a better/more mature community and ultimately bring about a better game

Dantology
04-04-2013, 07:14 AM
Man I loved Homefront! Unfortunately with today's "I want it now" mentality, this game will lose more than a few players. I do however feel that once things are resolved and word of mouth spreads, things will work out for the Xbox Defiance community.

I gave my first marriage 5 years before saying I can't handle this crap anymore. Seeing as how Defiance is working on resolving these current issues, I'm pretty sure I can hold on at least that long :)

Grit
04-04-2013, 07:16 AM
Well this game has a lot of promise. Homefront was a total piece of crap and i thought nothing could be worse than Homefront...then i bought Aliens: Colonial Marines and the only reason i haven't traded that game in is beacuse i'm doing my part to keep it out of other gamers' hands.

if the little 13yr olds get rid of their copies of Defiance, that's fine with me. they still have CoD to play :P

sc9000
04-04-2013, 07:23 AM
Calm down, this game got all the hardcore xbox live users. The ones that have been on xbox live for 10 years to 6 years. Most us understand what is going on we have seen this on games before on xbox , all my friends and theres understand and it a virus of the word mouth and the game is amazing once you get online. Like Halo 2 , and the first modern warfare game and a few other major games they had the same issues yet became monster games. This is there first go around on a main stream game, because it is amazing. This is a small gaming company that cares about this game. , but they got the resources to fix there server problem.

If I am a betting man i bet there putting 90% there stuff in the server part and they are only working on the most critical bugs, if it a game breaker bug , not a minor bug that only handful of people found.

Misfit501
04-04-2013, 07:24 AM
I know things will get fixed eventually, I just hope enough players stick around.

TearsInRain
04-04-2013, 07:34 AM
Honestly the way I look at it is that the knowledgeable of the situation will stay and wait while the ones who keep threatening to quit (younger player base) will slowly fade away. This will most likely bring about a better/more mature community and ultimately bring about a better game


I know things will get fixed eventually, I just hope enough players stick around.

There's a fine line between "thinning the herd of those who are too impatient to stick around" and "there aren't enough seriously dedicated players left to keep this game profitable".

Unfortunately in a few months the bean-counters might just look at it like too many people have jumped ship too quickly and decide to cut their losses by shutting the whole thing down. *shrugs*

gryste
04-04-2013, 07:39 AM
It would go free to play long before they shut the servers

GrampaMurkedU
04-04-2013, 07:41 AM
It would go free to play long before they shut the servers

Massive micro transactions are required for a free to play game to be profitable.

TheShiningLily
04-04-2013, 07:42 AM
I don't understand the whole mentality of "thinning the herd of whiners" eventually you just have to turn the servers off because the "whiners" who do have legitimate concerns were ignored because no one wanted to listen to the concerns.

KyoKunChan
04-04-2013, 07:45 AM
Honestly the way I look at it is that the knowledgeable of the situation will stay and wait while the ones who keep threatening to quit (younger player base) will slowly fade away. This will most likely bring about a better/more mature community and ultimately bring about a better game

Or just have no one on at all and you wont see many people. Imma stay with the game still the end like alot of people but at the same time I can't help but be mad when I wanna play it after work or before work and I can't play because every 10-15mins it kicks me or I just cant see anything or nothing moves. I understand it just came out but you think they would understand or know that this would happen. And don;t say they did not think or know it would that just being ******* ******ed.

Started
04-04-2013, 07:46 AM
I understand this is an MMO. I also understand this is a console player base we're talking about. Many players simply won't wait around for a fix that may or may not ever come. Many of them are thinking they must trade or sale the game while its still new and has the most value.

While what you say is very accurate of homefront which I did sell, you can't simply "resell" a licensed copy of a game that is bound to your specific account which has your specific information on it. This is an MMO you cant resell MMO's! :O

gryste
04-04-2013, 07:49 AM
Yes you can resell it. Only thing that is one time code is pre order stuff

Kaustic
04-04-2013, 07:49 AM
While what you say is very accurate of homefront which I did sell, you can't simply "resell" a licensed copy of a game that is bound to your specific account which has your specific information on it. This is an MMO you cant resell MMO's! :O

You can if you bought it on console, as it does not link the whole account to that copy of the game, it just links your account to that console.

Dr D Wayne Love
04-04-2013, 07:54 AM
The game was a critical flop and a friend of mine who worked for KAOS said the failure was tied to their break up. In fact the IP was one of the last things to be picked up at the auction.

Yes but you were linking Kaos demise to the amount of Homefronts that were traded in.

And the Homefront IP was auctioned on the same day as the other THQ assets that found buyers, Crytek were the only bidders and they were always going to buy it seeing as how they've been working Homefront 2 anyway.

sc9000
04-04-2013, 07:58 AM
There's a fine line between "thinning the herd of those who are too impatient to stick around" and "there aren't enough seriously dedicated players left to keep this game profitable".

Unfortunately in a few months the bean-counters might just look at it like too many people have jumped ship too quickly and decide to cut their losses by shutting the whole thing down. *shrugs*

You need understand this is not a corporate company these are real gamers, not some hot shot that thinks video games are for kids. Do a little checking on this game company. Yet there talent and who they are speak for them self . This is a make or break game and they did every thing perfect but stress test the xbox servers, There no share holders telling them what to do, it all there money if they cut there lossess then it hurts all them.

Kaustic
04-04-2013, 08:04 AM
You need understand this is not a corporate company these are real gamers, not some hot shot that thinks video games are for kids. Do a little checking on this game company. Yet there talent and who they are speak for them self . This is a make or break game and they did every thing perfect but stress test the xbox servers, There no share holders telling them what to do, it all there money if they cut there lossess then it hurts all them.

They actually DID stress test the 360 servers during Advance Mission Beta 3. Unfortunately, the unpredictability of the Xbox market hurt them when FAR more people ended up buying the game at launch than they were initially expecting. Nothing Trion can't handle, they did amazing with Rift.

TearsInRain
04-04-2013, 08:04 AM
You need understand this is not a corporate company these are real gamers, not some hot shot that thinks video games are for kids. Do a little checking on this game company. Yet there talent and who they are speak for them self . This is a make or break game and they did every thing perfect but stress test the xbox servers, There no share holders telling them what to do, it all there money if they cut there lossess then it hurts all them.

Trion is a company in the business of making profits. It doesn't really matter whether they are a "big corporate company" or just a group of "cool dedicated gamers out to make a great game". If they don't get enough money coming in to pay for their costs they will have to shut the game down, period. I obviouly hope it doesn't come to that - but don't fool yourself into thinking that the "business" side of this venture doesn't matter.

GrampaMurkedU
04-04-2013, 08:06 AM
You can if you bought it on console, as it does not link the whole account to that copy of the game, it just links your account to that console.

I called my gamestop. They are giving 22.00 credit for trade ins.

lemieux
04-04-2013, 08:10 AM
THQ didn't close Kaos Studios because people traded in Homefront.

So having a poorly made game would have kept them in business?

The game was horrible. The graphics were horrible. The online was horrible.

But I guess that game kept them in business. Oh wait, that's right. They are gone now.

Poor sales = no more company. See above for reasons. Then drink coffee and wake up.

Tiani
04-04-2013, 08:16 AM
i dont get this I am usually the first one with issues in games but i bought this game 10am uk release day and have played pretty much non stop since, no lag, no disconnects, and minimal bugs

I keep coming to the forum and seeing posts like "xbox server down agaain" and im like wtf im playing there right now!

Davidthealien
04-04-2013, 08:24 AM
Keep in mind we forum posters are the vocal minority. The vast majority of players will never visit this forum or site. They will simply give up After awhile.

i bet a ton of them don't even realize the forums/site even exist. A chunk i am sure will think the game is broke and return it right away.

MagellanD
04-04-2013, 08:24 AM
So am I, that's why I waited to see the results/level of support this game would receive this first week. My pre-order will be picked up tomorrow. However, I understand exactly what the OP is saying, and he/she is correct. Console gamers are not conditioned to receiving continuous updates to an unplayable and/or glitched game. They are used to paying $60 putting the game into their machine and playing. When they are done playing they take it back to Gamestop, etc. and are using the trade-in value for the next big hit game that just released this week. Next week, or next month, they repeat the process. It's the main reason console games drop in value so quickly unless they have a) A HUGE following, that can sustain growth and playability after the initial onslaught subsides, or b) An established reputation for supporting and evolving the game and it's premise. Unfortunately Trion does not have A, and is working on B....Hopefully these first few days examples of support, and continued support, will help this game to grow.

I agree and like your reply.
I'll add the "updates" they'e used to are minimal. IE COD BLOPS to BLOPSII or NHL12 to NHL13. They wait like Pavlovs dogs for crappy updates praising them like it's the 2nd coming.

the BLOPS forums are also filled with nothing but complaints :/

Davidthealien
04-04-2013, 08:25 AM
i dont get this I am usually the first one with issues in games but i bought this game 10am uk release day and have played pretty much non stop since, no lag, no disconnects, and minimal bugs

I keep coming to the forum and seeing posts like "xbox server down agaain" and im like wtf im playing there right now!

Could be US servers that have the issues and you are on EU servers or vice versa. There are some that are seeing no problems whatsoever.

Arkayik
04-04-2013, 08:26 AM
As someone mentioned earlier, I think it is a good thing to weed out those who are freaking out over these first initial days. I haven't played an MMO on pc in YEARS, but I already knew what was in store. I still pre ordered it, played it when it will let me, and have had a blast so far. Judging by 95% of these rants Trion should have released a PSA to console players about the initial woes of playing an MMO.

Davidthealien
04-04-2013, 08:28 AM
As someone mentioned earlier, I think it is a good thing to weed out those who are freaking out over these first initial days. I haven't played an MMO on pc in YEARS, but I already knew what was in store. I still pre ordered it, played it when it will let me, and have had a blast so far. Judging by 95% of these rants Trion should have released a PSA to console players about the initial woes of playing an MMO.

Agree with you 100%. I like what i see in regards to the game, menus, customization etc. Not too fussed with all the lag or server issues etc as long as it does get fixed over time. I will keep plugging away.

Buruko
04-04-2013, 08:29 AM
I understand this is an MMO. I also understand this is a console player base we're talking about. Many players simply won't wait around for a fix that may or may not ever come. Many of them are thinking they must trade or sale the game while its still new and has the most value.

The best example I can give is Homefront. Almost all of my friends bought that game at launch. It was a disaster at launch and much like these recent patches their first day patches did nothing to make the online playable. As the days went buy more and more of them got rid of the game. It went so poorly for the developers that KAOS studios went under eventually.

Now im not saying that is going to happen hear but with each passing day I guarantee you that the player base is thinning. If this continues to long like it did with homefront the players lost could seriously damage things to come. I held onto Homefront for nearly 2 months waiting for a fix that they promised was coming but never materialized.

Most xbox gamers probably won't wait much more than a week, possibly two. It's not like they can play the single player offline while waiting foe online to be fixed.

There will be your hardcore single player game type folks that will abandon ship quite rapidly, this game wasn't meant for them anyway. Those that are always on the trail of new hottness as far as gaming, these come from the PC market as well and they too will eventually move on.

But the players who enjoy this game will do just like those that played WoW did, they will spread the word. They will recruit, they will get others interested. Ultimately what makes a successful MMO is the community that springs up around it and nurtures it. I believe there are people here excited about this 'experiment' and just about the game in general, they will be the ones to keep the ship afloat if necessary. I mean look at Anarchy Online or EVE Online, those are smaller player numbers than say WoW but they are profitable in a Subscriber based model with small populations (by comparison to other titles) where Defiance has a model that has always been Buy-2-Play from the start, they are not hoping for a return via subscription but on revenue generated by partnerships, in-game transactions, and purchase of future DLC. So long as there is active and happy players here buying and supporting the model they'll keep chugging along even after the small subgroups of players migrate away.

Chapperz
04-04-2013, 08:32 AM
I agree and like your reply.
I'll add the "updates" they'e used to are minimal. IE COD BLOPS to BLOPSII or NHL12 to NHL13. They wait like Pavlovs dogs for crappy updates praising them like it's the 2nd coming.

the BLOPS forums are also filled with nothing but complaints :/

all ppl seem to do is complain i paid 40pound for this and i think its a great product and works fine for me, credit to the developers!!!!

Hiero Glyph
04-04-2013, 08:47 AM
Let em whine. It'll clean up the community in time, all evolution like. Then our word of mouth will get our friends on. The people we want to play with anyway.

Region lock, another major issue currently on the backburner, prevents many of us from doing exactly this. Trion certainly has their work cut out for them over the next few months in order to make Defiance a success.

EVOKnight
04-04-2013, 08:50 AM
I understand this is an MMO. I also understand this is a console player base we're talking about. Many players simply won't wait around for a fix that may or may not ever come. Many of them are thinking they must trade or sale the game while its still new and has the most value.

The best example I can give is Homefront. Almost all of my friends bought that game at launch. It was a disaster at launch and much like these recent patches their first day patches did nothing to make the online playable. As the days went buy more and more of them got rid of the game. It went so poorly for the developers that KAOS studios went under eventually.

Now im not saying that is going to happen hear but with each passing day I guarantee you that the player base is thinning. If this continues to long like it did with homefront the players lost could seriously damage things to come. I held onto Homefront for nearly 2 months waiting for a fix that they promised was coming but never materialized.

Most xbox gamers probably won't wait much more than a week, possibly two. It's not like they can play the single player offline while waiting foe online to be fixed.

Just so you know; Homefront sold really well actually and enjoyed a healthy player base right up until the servers closed recently.. Kaos was not closed down due to poor performance of the game but rather because THQ needed to scuttle weight for its impending bankruptcy. Koas was a casulaty oof war so to speak.

Waiting 2 months to support a game is not very long....I supported that game for 3 years < and years leading up to its release via word of mouth>

Every MMO I have ever played evolved over t ime and the same will happen here....strap in and enjoy the ride!

King Smaals
04-04-2013, 08:54 AM
Hey... **** happens. If you leave you leave, if you stay you stay.

This game is f**king awesome and people need to be patient... If you did not expect this, then you are an MMO NOOB, bottom-line.