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View Full Version : The Dev teams apparant lack of love for PVP



Fallen_Aingeal
01-10-2015, 01:16 PM
Surprised I'm actually making this thread, but here goes.

I don't understand the lack of attention the team gives PVP, concerning tweaks, upgrades, map additions, etc. Nothing new has been introduced since I started playing in July of 2013. Shadow wars is Shadow wars. Competitive maps are the same, and at least one, unplayable unless you like critting out.

Now, any time a weapon is mentioned as being overpowered in PVP it is dealt with swiftly, much to the chagrin of the PVE only base. But, to add another map or two, or look at the balancing/scaling issues is set so far down the pipeline that it can easily be forgotten about.

Please don't tell me that PVP shouldn't be bothered with because it is "such a small aspect of the game" or because it doesn't involve your play directly. The fact is, is that it is part of the game. And, for some of us a for the most part, fun event to participate in. It deserves more attention than it is or ever has received.

The biggest complaint I hear is how things are growing stale. We have a hand full of contracts that are repeated several times over. I miss the old contracts. Kill 100 skitters. Get items from 100 99'ers. Get items from 100 raiders, etc. if those could be implemented in with the current contracts, it would create a nice diversity. but I've wandered.

4 PVP maps in almost 2 years? 1 hardly worked for more than 1/2 of that and is still lagging as hell.

Please consider a bit more effort where PVP is concerned. Show it the love and attention that a lot of us feel it deserves. Saying a lot, considering less than a year ago I made statements regarding never planning or having any desire to participate in PVP.

Whether you love or loathe it, PVP is part of Defiance. It needs some attention.

Ryker Vorton
01-10-2015, 02:15 PM
I agree with you, no part of the game should be left unattended, and even if i don't play pvp it is a part of the game

Well, they actually cared quite a bit about pvp, many pve perks/weapons/grenades were extremely nerfed in the bame of pvp, so some of the devs must really like pvp over pve if it is worth to ruin one because of the other.

Anyways, i also agree with your comment on the contracts, those are/were much more fun than the current ones (and less place specific like the common contracts we currently have)

Leprochaun
01-10-2015, 02:38 PM
I enjoy pvp. I'd love some new maps for it. Honestly I think it'd be great if some of the Castithan Charge Pack arenas could be used in a pvp setting, or if they made the game's starting area into a capture and hold map. I also think the bathhouse would make a good deathmatch map. I think people would complain less about dying if they had more variety of places to die in.

idonthideiblaze
01-10-2015, 04:09 PM
Ad I've been saying its time. I like pve but once u have everything an sitting with fat full pockets if scrip wats the point. ARKFAILS are so boring I'm not OCD in the fact I need every oj of every nano.So many ppl brag about having all these ojs but who cares if ur not gonna beat the mess out of eachother w them.I love the pvp in this game love love love it

Nefarious
01-10-2015, 04:13 PM
Im all for PvP. But even though PvP has been in the game since launch you have to ask...Was it ever really in the game to begin with? PvP since the games release was near unplayable and continued to get worse as time went on.

Just within the recent months have things started to clean up for it and it just started to get a player base behind it.

So its hard to say why hasn't there been any content since April 2013 when content for PvP during all that time wouldn't of even been worth it with all things considering.

But there are sure little things that should get attention and are fixes that need to be done that no one would argue against such as the Cerberus getting a armor buff. Players getting phased into being invisible and invincible. The ever lasting Bio slow down effect that carries over after you die and respawn. And a player not getting their score reset upon leaving and re-entering Shadow Wars, which they should.

Fallen_Aingeal
01-10-2015, 04:19 PM
On PS3na it has been a popular part of the game play since I started. Several members of my first clan played and would invite me to tag along. I had no desire until I joined the Phoenix Guard and Brianflipside helped me get started. Had a blast! Several ppl in current clan play nightly. Always a kick to group up and tear ppl up!

Would be a lot more fun if we had more map choices. We play freightyard regularly. Waterfront and Observatory on occasion. The majority steer clear of the Academy and Shadow wars because of the lag and high dc rate.

idonthideiblaze
01-10-2015, 05:25 PM
I think all the push for server stability has been fixing both. Ive played pvp an pve if 1 is broke there both broken...I also think bcuz the grind is easier now then before so now alot more ppl in pvp which is why I say its time to focus on both, because face it besides sometimes instances not queing up the MAJOR PROBLEM IS LAG. As far as no player base behind pvp I could spit out names forever but those ppl moved on when other games came out.Theres always been a pvp community so why not make them happy for once.

konstantinov
01-10-2015, 05:31 PM
I think all the push for server stability has been fixing both. Ive played pvp an pve if 1 is broke there both broken...I also think bcuz the grind is easier now then before so now alot more ppl in pvp which is why I say its time to focus on both, because face it besides sometimes instances not queing up the MAJOR PROBLEM IS LAG.

None of what you said makes any sense. All of what you said is just one contradiction after another.

Altras
01-10-2015, 08:37 PM
PvP desperately needs love and attention, even if its only a new set of shadow war maps. I imagine they aren't too hard to build consider they maps already made sort to speak. Places like bathhouse, Serenity academy, and other spots would make great pvp additions

King Stud
01-12-2015, 02:01 PM
Definitely agree with OP. Once players break 5k ego, pvp becomes the main endgame activity, since they've probably already done all the other arkfalls, missions, sieges, etc. thousands of times already. It also doubles as a place where they can show off all their hard earned weapons, as people often inspect other players to see what weapons they were just killed by. Some new pvp maps, a reworking of the echelon vendor, or even making the inspect option more detailed so that other players can see the rolls on your weapons would go a long way towards improving Defiance's endgame experience.

Markeen
01-12-2015, 03:15 PM
For me pvp is endgame. There are stability issues and some bugs that need fixed. New maps would be cool. I agree that it's usually the non pvp players that call for weapon nerfs and at one time I might have been one of those players. But let's be honest, 0 reload on a weapon of any type was a bit unfair. I am still certain there are players using exploits but I know most of them just have better loadouts and more experience. Overall I'm not really a fan of pvp but since I've completed everything else except social and pvp pursuits I have to learn to at least tolerate it.

BC001
01-12-2015, 04:38 PM
For me pvp is endgame. There are stability issues and some bugs that need fixed. New maps would be cool. I agree that it's usually the non pvp players that call for weapon nerfs and at one time I might have been one of those players. But let's be honest, 0 reload on a weapon of any type was a bit unfair. I am still certain there are players using exploits but I know most of them just have better loadouts and more experience. Overall I'm not really a fan of pvp but since I've completed everything else except social and pvp pursuits I have to learn to at least tolerate it.


Actually most of the nerfhounds have been PvP players which makes sense since PvP has the more critical need for balance. In PvE everyone is on the same side so a weapon has to be incredibly overpowered or otherwise obnoxious for people to complain about it.

In Defiance there is not supposed to be an “endgame” as such, it is designed for replayability at all levels rather than switching gears from 'leveling' to 'endgame' like most of the other MMOs out there. Personally I prefer Defiance's sandbox style over the linear “the game is only the prelude to the endgame” attitude that so many other MMOs have.

A big part of the sandbox style's replayability is dynamic content so it does not get stale. That goes for PvP as well as PvE; the OP's suggestion of adding seige areas and more raid maps to places available for PvP has a lot of merit. Playing in open terrain is ok but it gets old fast so it should be mixed with other environments and the seige areas are the closest to urban complex style settings the map has available. PvP gets the wildest where there are complex routs and a mix of short and long sight-lines available.

Also, an interesting variant to add in would be to re-use some of the raid maps to combine PvP and PvE in a kind of three-way featuring two competing player groups in a map populated with AI mobs as a wildcard (I know this probably happens in a small way on the main map, I mean a more even mix).

If it makes a scheduling problem for PvE, shard jumping should work to fix it for those who want to do missions or sieges (and better shard controls than just “go to” person stuff is needed anyway).

I am not a big fan of PvP either, and I am totally burned out on it from PvP only games like APB:Reloaded and the linear format games that start out PvE but all too soon dump the players into “endgame” which is mostly PvP with a few scattered raids and special events. Other people still like it though and Defiance could attract and hold more people if the PvP was more varied (as long as it does not come to dominate and marginalize the dynamic PvE that makes the game special).

Tyber Paradym
01-13-2015, 03:34 AM
I suggested in another thread that they open up PvP map development to users. This could produce a lot of new content. And, many times players produce even better layouts and game play because they know the game well.
I come from an old fps that has literally 100's of user maps to choose from. :) The amateur development of these maps is one of the things that has kept the game alive and the community engaged for nearly 15 years.
Not sure if they would have to make a tool kit or what. But, I'd love to hear if it's even a possibility. Because, I'd get right to work.

Dixie Cougar
01-13-2015, 04:03 AM
I am not a big fan of PvP either, and I am totally burned out on it from PvP only games like APB:Reloaded and the linear format games that start out PvE but all too soon dump the players into “endgame” which is mostly PvP with a few scattered raids and special events. Other people still like it though and Defiance could attract and hold more people if the PvP was more varied (as long as it does not come to dominate and marginalize the dynamic PvE that makes the game special).

Like you I am burnt out on PvP from APB and don't play it very much in Defiance--maybe once a week or less, and only instanced maps. While APB was a very fun game with a lot of great points I eventually set it aside because the community is pretty toxic. Zone chat in APB is a neverending paroxysm of rage. The customization kept me there longer than the game itself.

To be quite honest, I don't want those types of hardcore e-peen chasers to come to Defiance, and I don't want PvP built up to such an extent that it would attract those people.

That being said, there's no harm IMO in increasing map variety and bumping up the rewards a little bit so long as they are not unique. I think a lot of people reject the idea of doing pvp out of hand when they might enjoy it at low dosages and a bump in the amount of exp/keys received might encourage them to give it a try by lowering the opportunity cost (in other words, they won't lose out massively on basic rewards gained in pve).

This was me in APB, wish I had a tommy gun for Defiance:
http://i.imgur.com/oCCJwHW.jpg

Mister Derpenhowser
01-13-2015, 09:33 AM
I've just got around to pvp.. its okay.

I'm usually top 3 at the end of a match so no complaints there. But I am only doing this for ego rating. It was this or those horribly bugged races. My issue is the vehicle/turret kills needed for pursuits. These are impossible unless you boost them, or did them a long time ago.

Chris Robet
01-13-2015, 12:13 PM
I've just got around to pvp.. its okay.

I'm usually top 3 at the end of a match so no complaints there. But I am only doing this for ego rating. It was this or those horribly bugged races. My issue is the vehicle/turret kills needed for pursuits. These are impossible unless you boost them, or did them a long time ago.

Even with the boost you can't kill someone unless they are almost dead from someone else.

Mister Derpenhowser
01-13-2015, 12:16 PM
Joy of joys, more pursuits/psn trophies I can't earn.. way to go Trion

squidgod2000
01-13-2015, 12:19 PM
Please don't tell me that PVP shouldn't be bothered with because it is "such a small aspect of the game" or because it doesn't involve your play directly. The fact is, is that it is part of the game. And, for some of us a for the most part, fun event to participate in. It deserves more attention than it is or ever has received.

It's only a small aspect of the game because it has been marginalized and ignored by the devs since launch. In this sort of game, PvP should be the endgame. Instead, it's nearly universally reviled (to the point that devs are making posts about how it is and will get easier to max EGO without PvP) and has the worst rewards of any activity in the game.

Part of me feels like they should just take out the competitive maps and focus what little PvP dev time they have on shadow wars.

Telemachus
01-14-2015, 03:35 AM
Pvp is endgame ?, if you care about that small small tiny crap part of the game. delete the account. boom , endgame.

Dixie Cougar
01-14-2015, 04:22 AM
Pvp is endgame ?, if you care about that small small tiny crap part of the game. delete the account. boom , endgame.

I have to agree, it is how it should be. People don't gravitate toward PvE games so they can focus on PvP in the endgame.

stefb42
01-14-2015, 05:34 AM
Its usually pve players who cry for nerfs, are you f'ing kidding?

Lets start with pellet reduction in nano fraggers and sawn offs, pvp players were complaining about being 1 shot killed so they nerfed pellet count

Saws, pvp players complained that it overpowered all other weapons in it's class so dmg was reduced and extra recoil added to the dismay of most pve players

Cant get vehicular manslaughter trophy/achievement? Well pvp players complained about being run over in pvp all the time (as well as pve players running over stuff at arkfalls) so now all vehicles are made of paper, guess this was a bit of both sides

Bloodhound/gang buster?? Again thank pvp for the state of these weapons, both used to be more effective until pvp started moaning about them

Ahh the zagger, no one in pve ever complained about its reload time

Splitshot is how it is thanks to pvp complaints and I can see all surge bolter types being further adjusted as the complaints go on

Cloak, again never heard anyone in pve complain they couldn't see me while cloaked so heh

Now I'm not saying there weren't imbalances or that adjustments made weren't justified,but to blame pve for nerfs is beyond me

The only nerfs pve is responsible for is nerfs to enemy difficulty etc, ie make nim/jackleg joe/dark matter/volge/insert whichever enemy here easier, take the monolith off the bridge so I can take my ego 50 to san Fran, oh and I'm only ego 50 so dark matter need to be easier type of nerfs, if anything pve is responsible for buffs that weapons receive, like buffing rocket launchers, the upcoming buff to bmgs

Ryker Vorton
01-14-2015, 11:00 AM
Its usually pve players who cry for nerfs, are you f'ing kidding?

Lets start with pellet reduction in nano fraggers and sawn offs, pvp players were complaining about being 1 shot killed so they nerfed pellet count

Saws, pvp players complained that it overpowered all other weapons in it's class so dmg was reduced and extra recoil added to the dismay of most pve players

Cant get vehicular manslaughter trophy/achievement? Well pvp players complained about being run over in pvp all the time (as well as pve players running over stuff at arkfalls) so now all vehicles are made of paper, guess this was a bit of both sides

Bloodhound/gang buster?? Again thank pvp for the state of these weapons, both used to be more effective until pvp started moaning about them

Ahh the zagger, no one in pve ever complained about its reload time

Splitshot is how it is thanks to pvp complaints and I can see all surge bolter types being further adjusted as the complaints go on

Cloak, again never heard anyone in pve complain they couldn't see me while cloaked so heh

Now I'm not saying there weren't imbalances or that adjustments made weren't justified,but to blame pve for nerfs is beyond me

The only nerfs pve is responsible for is nerfs to enemy difficulty etc, ie make nim/jackleg joe/dark matter/volge/insert whichever enemy here easier, take the monolith off the bridge so I can take my ego 50 to san Fran, oh and I'm only ego 50 so dark matter need to be easier type of nerfs, if anything pve is responsible for buffs that weapons receive, like buffing rocket launchers, the upcoming buff to bmgs

Amen to that!

Fallen_Aingeal
01-14-2015, 11:21 AM
*snip*

Now I'm not saying there weren't imbalances or that adjustments made weren't justified,but to blame pve for nerfs is beyond me

The only nerfs pve is responsible for is nerfs to enemy difficulty etc, ie make nim/jackleg joe/dark matter/volge/insert whichever enemy here easier, take the monolith off the bridge so I can take my ego 50 to san Fran, oh and I'm only ego 50 so dark matter need to be easier type of nerfs, if anything pve is responsible for buffs that weapons receive, like buffing rocket launchers, the upcoming buff to bmgsWhich is why I mentioned this in the original post.

I fully agree that pvp players ***** and whine about things being overpowered and it is dealt with quickly. A lot of the guns I used to enjoy using in both pvp and pve are now collecting dust because of asinine changes that weren't necessary for both aspects of the game.

I personally could care less about the weapons. I want more diversity in the aspect of the game. More maps. Something and somewhere new and different.

stefb42
01-14-2015, 11:30 AM
Which is why I mentioned this in the original post.

I fully agree that pvp players ***** and whine about things being overpowered and it is dealt with quickly. A lot of the guns I used to enjoy using in both pvp and pve are now collecting dust because of asinine changes that weren't necessary for both aspects of the game.

I personally could care less about the weapons. I want more diversity in the aspect of the game. More maps. Something and somewhere new and different.

I hope you don't think my rant was directed at you, it was a post I read on previous page saying pve was responsible for all nerfs, was going to quote them but I forseen my rant being long and it was a long post I'd have been quoting, probably should have did what you did with mine and snip...

Fallen_Aingeal
01-14-2015, 11:37 AM
I hope you don't think my rant was directed at you, it was a post I read on previous page saying pve was responsible for all nerfs, was going to quote them but I forseen my rant being long and it was a long post I'd have been quoting, probably should have did what you did with mine and snip...No worries. Just wanted to clarify that I haven't condoned any of the nerfing that has taken place.

It just seems that that's the only time the dev team pays any attention to pvp. Destroy our arsenals and leave it at that. Create new "content" for pve over the course of the last 21 months but nothing for pvp.

They're constantly claiming wanting balance in the game. Where's the balance?

Chris Robet
01-14-2015, 11:47 AM
If they are to nerf anything nerf the big boomers as stated in a different thread they are no skill weapons despite having to ark them due to their actual radius.

Sliverbaer
01-14-2015, 12:22 PM
I didn't really PVP at all until I was in the upper 5000 ego. I don't really like PVP in any game (repetitive, same static maps, etc) but I find Shadow Wars fun.

What I think needs fixed:

Cerberus - Strength and Turret Damage (These things are way too weak for what they are. Damn turret kill pursuits!)
Shadow Wars Spawn Points (Way to easy, especially in SF, to get spawn killed continuously when there is one point active.)


Weapons are weapons. They are what they are in the hands of who uses 'em. I get killed by all of them one way or another.....

EDIT: Video card directly effects PVP kills. Using onboard video for awhile while EVGA 660ti was being replaced, again, I did horribly because of response time. Now with an ASUS 770, better performance, and better response time.

Altras
01-17-2015, 11:27 PM
Much bump, such truth.

Jet1337
01-17-2015, 11:48 PM
Pvp is garbage. The movement controls on the console versions are so jerky and unrefined, taking away the immersion other games like destiny provide. My moto ever since I got my last pvp pursuit is to let it die.