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View Full Version : Balancing the Crimefighter



WhiteStrike
01-19-2015, 07:55 AM
Ok,I think that everyone as noticed that the Crimefighter is pretty Op.It also makes submortars and Lobbers useless.My fix for the Crimefighter would be the following:turn it into a pump action shotgun and add a 0.5 reload time per slug.This way people won't spam it and will cherish the ammunition that they have thus making it balanced.

WhiteStrike
01-19-2015, 08:03 AM
PS:Sorry if there are grammar mistakes as I'm using my phone to post.

brokenshield
01-19-2015, 08:14 AM
Personally, I have no issue with the CF's, BMG's or any other similar weapon other than I am completely playing with a hood over my head once they start. OP or not OP is no concern of mine as I have the same ability to use these weapons as anyone else. I would just like to see the graphics dealt with so I can actually play after they get going.

IMHO nerfing is never a good thing in any game. The company has had plenty of time to figure out the mechanics of their own game. If a weapon, shield or combination thereof is OP, then as long as it is something that all can obtain, then so be it.

Tura Satana
01-19-2015, 08:19 AM
Personally I would rather see the frame rate breaking effects removed, as well as the massive screen shaking and vibration caused by anyone near you using this item, or other defiant few items. Trying to aim through the scope of my Heavy AR was hell in co-op with all the shaking caused by the bloodhound even. Also its hard to aim for an enemy's face when all you can see is the wall of green blob they have suddenly become.

WhiteStrike
01-19-2015, 08:24 AM
This isn't a direct nerf,it's an anti-spam nerf.Plus,less spam=Less Lag

PS:It makes all Lobers and the Submortar useless.How is this balanced?

Chris Robet
01-19-2015, 08:28 AM
My issue with them is not only the incredible lag but the fact that all low egos have to do to get it is spraypaint a wall eight times and then they can easily get it (before you say they can't easily get it go to overpass look at nearby and I can almost guarantee most people will be under 700 ego) and when they get this weapon they refuse to use anything not even exploring the possibilities of other gun.

WhiteStrike
01-19-2015, 08:37 AM
My issue with them is not only the incredible lag but the fact that all low egos have to do to get it is spraypaint a wall eight times and then they can easily get it (before you say they can't easily get it go to overpass look at nearby and I can almost guarantee most people will be under 700 ego) and when they get this weapon they refuse to use anything not even exploring the possibilities of other gun.

Can you blame them?The gun is OP.They don't even need to aim,just spray and pray!This is where the reload nerf comes in,it makes them aim the gun and the gun is still viable.

brokenshield
01-19-2015, 08:44 AM
As far as balance, can it really be achieved. Some combination will always be better than another. Games already play fast and loose with the laws of physics, and there are just too many combinations in that type of world to be able to balance everything. It's why IRL pistosl aren't used in combat over a rifle. They are made for different jobs.

WhiteStrike
01-19-2015, 08:50 AM
Still,this would make 4 weapons usefull.I think that it is better this way over the "CRIMEFIGHTER ALL THE THINGS" way.Every gun has it's use and there should be no exceptions to that...unless you're a Volge Battle Rifle.

konstantinov
01-19-2015, 08:52 AM
They're not OP they're very annoying visually. I see more noobs killing themselves with then than the mob they're "aiming" at. The visual effects are what need to be toned down not the actual weapon itself. As far as lobbers and the submortar go, they're useless anyways.

stefb42
01-19-2015, 09:05 AM
Here's a novel idea, bring the lobbers and submorters up to par instead of yet another Nerf, not all launchers suck compared to the crimefighter, in fact one could argue that the big boomer and ground pounder are as good as if not better than the crimefighter, so it seems the problem lies with lobbers and submorters not the crimefighter, really wish people would quit asking to Nerf everything

WhiteStrike
01-19-2015, 09:09 AM
That is also a good idea.What do you suggest to do in order to make those weapons usefull?

konstantinov
01-19-2015, 09:13 AM
Here's a novel idea, bring the lobbers and submorters up to par instead of yet another Nerf, not all launchers suck compared to the crimefighter, in fact one could argue that the big boomer and ground pounder are as good as if not better than the crimefighter, so it seems the problem lies with lobbers and submorters not the crimefighter, really wish people would quit asking to Nerf everything

The crimefighter falls under the combat shotgun category not under detonators.

stefb42
01-19-2015, 09:27 AM
The crimefighter falls under the combat shotgun category not under detonators.

Yeah I know that, the OP was complaining it made other launchers obsolete, didn't compare it to another shotgun just the launchers, I assume because its explosive, so I suggest fixing launchers as that's what op said the cf was overshadowing, thought that was obvious but heh idk

stefb42
01-19-2015, 09:29 AM
That is also a good idea.What do you suggest to do in order to make those weapons usefull?

Idk, I'm not the one complaining about their comparative weaknesses, how do you think it could be done

Symbiosis2099
01-19-2015, 09:31 AM
Personally I'm just not big fan of the crimefighter...I never used one until I was over the 5k mark, and maybe by then I had just fallen into a playstyle that the CF wasn't suited for. I certainly didn't find it OP, if I want to explode something I have a big boomer for that, and when I fire my boomer the projectile doesn't go bouncing around.

Now, for the argument that it needs to be toned down visually, I completely agree. Simply slowing down the fire rate of it wouldn't help so much with say....doing a co-op map where your 3 teamates are crimefighting it up. Or, god forbid, a warmaster with 15 people using a crimefighter (I've seen it, it's not pretty)

WhiteStrike
01-19-2015, 09:31 AM
Yeah I know that, the OP was complaining it made other launchers obsolete, didn't compare it to another shotgun just the launchers, I assume because its explosive, so I suggest fixing launchers as that's what op said the cf was overshadowing, thought that was obvious but heh idk

I only compared it to 3 launchers.I could also talk about RL but they are different types of weapons and most launchers are awful.Also,they better than alot of other weapons.I'm just mentioning those detonators as they're the most direct comparison

stefb42
01-19-2015, 09:34 AM
U

I only conpared it to 3 launchers.I could also talk about RL but they are different types of weapons and most launchers are awful.

Yes and I said that in my initial reply, you know lobbers and submorters, I didn't say you said it made all launchers obso....oh forget it, Nerf everything

WhiteStrike
01-19-2015, 09:34 AM
Idk, I'm not the one complaining about their comparative weaknesses, how do you think it could be done

Those guys just need a plain damage boost.Less AoE,more damage.

WhiteStrike
01-19-2015, 09:36 AM
Yes and I said that in my initial reply, you know lobbers and submorters, I didn't say you said it made all launchers obso....oh forget it

It makes a good amount of weapons useless.The other Defiant Few weapons are balanced why shouldn't the Crimefighter be too?

stefb42
01-19-2015, 09:42 AM
It makes a good amount of weapons useless.The other Defiant Few weapons are balanced why shouldn't the Crimefighter be too?

They're not balanced though, they're worse than any other weapon of their class

crazyged
01-19-2015, 09:53 AM
The Crimefighter is a badly conceived and designed weapon, period.

Graywolfe
01-19-2015, 10:13 AM
I like somethings about the CF but the visual graphics are at the bottom of the list they are so bad and need to removed or severely toned down. I also and not a fan of how much they bounce, i would rather have them bounce once and be done or explode on impact. I generally prefer using the csx clustershot as i have way more control and can target better with it. The only reason i sometimes switch to the CF is it has a better blast radius. As far as detonators go the lobber and submortar are junk anyway they can even compare with the csx or the other detonators. Use a ground pounder they really good and do even better than a CF with out the lag or visual pollution. Every weapon group as a couple in it that are pretty worthless so I wouldn't worry about it unless they are going to buff up every group.

stefb42
01-19-2015, 10:23 AM
See idgaf about the crimefighter, I do care about the nerfs though, some of you guys are new so don't know what a Nerf entails in this game, others should really know better, so anyway, don't think that just because you didn't mention your favourite gun, or it is in no way related to the cf, that your favourite stuff will be unaffected by the Nerf, this is Trion, they don't do just reduced damage oh no, think of the zagger, needed a reload animation, what we got nerfs to purple rolls on full reload but no reload animation, then they did Nerf the gun, but by changing the rolls not by adding an animation, at the same time they added rules that affected reload time on all weapons with a quick reload, alongside a nerf to the preparedness perk, so the Nerf didn't just effect the zagger but rather most quick reload guns and people who had enjoyed the preparedness perk since launch

WhiteStrike
01-19-2015, 10:57 AM
See idgaf about the crimefighter, I do care about the nerfs though, some of you guys are new so don't know what a Nerf entails in this game, others should really know better, so anyway, don't think that just because you didn't mention your favourite gun, or it is in no way related to the cf, that your favourite stuff will be unaffected by the Nerf, this is Trion, they don't do just reduced damage oh no, think of the zagger, needed a reload animation, what we got nerfs to purple rolls on full reload but no reload animation, then they did Nerf the gun, but by changing the rolls not by adding an animation, at the same time they added rules that affected reload time on all weapons with a quick reload, alongside a nerf to the preparedness perk, so the Nerf didn't just effect the zagger but rather most quick reload guns and people who had enjoyed the preparedness perk since launch

So for Trion to nerf something they need to nerf everything else?

Fallen_Aingeal
01-19-2015, 11:23 AM
So for Trion to nerf something they need to nerf everything else?Now you're catching on...

stefb42
01-19-2015, 11:26 AM
It's kinda their way, nothing is ever simple, not just nerfs, everything, take the upcoming weapon change, people wanted useless rolls removed from certain weapons, that was all people wanted, what we get, you'll find in news and announcements, its way too long and complex for me to recall but its not a simple removal of bad rolls for certain guns

We wanted something to spend ark salvage on, they responded by making keycodes cost 10x as much salvage as they used to

We wanted endgame content, they took existing content and gated it off for high ego players and called it endgame

We wanted a way to stop locks being broken early on warmaster, we got timers that made locks break even quicker

Ppl wanted high ego players to require an invite to easy co op (kind of like low ego need an inv to expert) we got ego clamping which was even affecting us playing solo

Fixes in this game are rarely as simple as you see them being

Tex_Arcana
01-19-2015, 11:55 AM
Just leave the damned thing alone.
Except for the following: remove the puke effect and put in something less spammy. AND remove the "350 lb. Gorilla jumping on an old spring mattress" sound effect and put in something that sounds, well...cooler.
There are FAR more important things for Trion to be focused on at the moment than one bloody gun.
And in any case: The weapon doesn't need a nerf imo.

cmpowell
01-19-2015, 12:01 PM
I only compared it to 3 launchers.I could also talk about RL but they are different types of weapons and most launchers are awful.Also,they better than alot of other weapons.I'm just mentioning those detonators as they're the most direct comparison

actually a direct comparison would be the cluster shot which if you take away the effects and ability to charge the weapon is what a cf is. I can't give the best comparison but I have a cluster shot and a cf both no nano both with blue and oj dmg. the cluster is 5151 ego and the cf 5706 but they stack up like this
DMG: 15589 cluster vs 28543 cf(cluster suffers from being below 5500ego in the comparison)
FR: 2 vs 3
mag base: 10 vs 7
reload: 2.8 vs 2.8
acc: 4.2 vs 4.2
bloom is 0 as with all shotties.

if someone can calculate what the difference in ego dmg would be you'll get your exact comparison.
the only difference in these 2 weapons is the white roll one having mag and the other reload both of which i've accounted for in the posted stats.

If you will or can remember cluster shots were really big with newer players and vets used them occasionally too. It's just the cf is so easily attainable and the effects so annoying and lag creating that anyone cares

Brindled
01-19-2015, 12:42 PM
Because of all the complaining about the Crimefighters in the past couple of months I stopped using mine as much. In fact, I've gone into many co-ops lately decimating the kill counts and score with Golden Ring (wolfhound) and a fire Tachmag Pulser, this while running with multiple players spamming CF's.

They're not overpowered because they miss so damn much. CF's shine when mobs are close together and that's about it. With a direct firing weapon I can drop mobs in a second or two with headshots/crit-shots. I do agree that the CF spam does make doing this a lot harder due to screenshaking, green blurrring, and all the mobs flinching, however it's still possible to do well despite these drawbacks of direct aim bullet weapons. I keep a loadout of CF's just to muck it up when all three other players are running CF's or detonators. When in Rome....

Nefarious
01-19-2015, 02:27 PM
Imo I say make its non charged shots a hell of a lot weaker if anything.

Ryker Vorton
01-23-2015, 10:14 AM
On my experience, the CFs are quite fine as they are (with the exception of lag issues of course).

At low EGO and up to ego 2k they are by far the best weapon you can use.

At the mid EGO range (say 3000-4000) they are almost great weapons

At high EGO they are "Meh", there are much better weapons to use when you are 5k+ and have all weapon skills maxed.

Yesterday was doing some tests about the CF power compared to the enemies power, while i needed to empty a full magazine of smg to kill a mutant shotgunner he could kill my character (at ego 100-400) in 2 or 3 hits, the CF balanced grounds letting me kill them in 2 or three hits just like they can do to a PC.

The problem, when comparing to detonators or rocket launchers, is that they are too weak, detonators has too small magazines (the only two grenade launchers i had the chance to know in real life had 10-12 grenades loaded, not only 2-6 like in the game) and the damage should be much greater. It is even worse with rocket launchers, they are a joke in the game, should do at least four times the damage they do to behave actually like a rocket