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02-18-2015, 01:56 AM
This discussion entails why private warmaster instances in the upcoming alcatraz update should be free, as compared to the current system which requires the arkcaller to pay 3 hunter requisitions.

Players only want private warmasters, so they can escape the broken public warmaster design. Making players pay for private warmasters, is making them pay for an update system, which the developing company originally failed on. You are making us pay because you couldn't get your 1st design correct Trion? We wouldn't need private warmasters if you coded the connections properly the first time. We wouldn't need private warmasters if you would have more efficiently coded the design the first time.

I don't remember reading about the improvements to private warmaster, did you fix the crits and laggy weapons? What if players are still critting out 75%+ in every private warmaster? Will you refund the requisitions? I doubt it.

The point is, players ONLY want private warmasters because the CURRENT SYSTEM IN PLACE IS BROKEN AND HAS NEVER BEEN ATTEMPTED TO BE FIXED. Making us pay for private warmasters is a slap to the face. Because Trion fell short, the players now have to pay money to give the developers enough motivation to fix it.

EDIT: MORE INFORMATION

The following information is to provide players with a better understanding of my original post and why I feel the public WM is broken and we as players should not be charged real money to play in a fixed WM.

1. Misplaced player instances
If 50 people go into the same WM arkfall, their is a 0% chance that all 50 players get into the same arkfall like they are supposed to.

2. Poorly coded player connection to server
After WM dies/not dies, while the server is trying to process the players out of the arkfall, more often than not, the entire lobby of players get crits out of the game. Losing all/any rewards obtained in the arkfall completion screen.

3. Illogical player gear usage(probably not the most appropriate title for this point)
Allowing players to use all/any gear they choose in the WM arkfall is not a good idea. The fact that it is a closed instance should lead to restrictions against weapons considered taboo in closed instances(BMGs, all defiant few weapons, and maybe infectors).

4. DLC content available to non-DLC buyers
When people spend money on something, they are less likely to go out of their way to purposely mess it up or go into it ignorant of appropriate knowledge. Letting all non-DLC players access DLC content is like letting the fans of a soccer match join in on the game. It becomes chaotic, unorganized, and ultimately ends in a fashion that usually isn't desired by the people who are they because they belong there doing what they trained(in our case, paid) to do.

These are all reasons why the public WM is "broken" and these are reasons why we the players have been asking for months upon months for it to be fixed. It seems in the upcoming update, it will finally be fixed, but we have to pay money to play something that we paid to play to begin with? Trion sold us a broken toy, and is charging us money to fix it. That is what it all comes down to. Think of this situation like this: If you bought a soccer ball from amazon and it arrived flat, you would want it replaced or fixed right? Well what if amazon said they will only fix the soccer ball if you pay them an additional fee? That is what Trion is doing. Charging us money for a faulty product, and requesting an additional fee to fix it. This is why WM should be free. We all(DLC holders) paid for the DLC in order to play WM, but ended up with an arkfall that is shunned by the community for how bad the entire thing ended up being.

A person or two replied to this post and seemed to try an make me look like a moron. I know what I am talking about. This is for Xbox 360 and PS3. This has nothing to do with PC, for PC can't be compared to the console versions. They are very different gameplay experiences. You PC players have big clans who can take down WM in 1 minute? Guess what, we can do the exact same thing on console. Being able to defeat WM does not mean it is not broken. The soccer ball from amazon? You can still kick a flat soccer ball into a goal, but that doesn't mean their isn't a problem. Defiance can NOT be compared to any other game from Trion or any company. Defiance is its own game with its own unique economy and features.

Thank you all for replying, both negative and positive. This post has gotten a lot more feedback than I thought it would and hopefully this amount of feedback on this issue will get the attention of the developers on trion.

Psycroww
02-18-2015, 02:27 AM
You do realize private warmasters will be raised to TL10 regardless if it is just you or 30 other people in it right?

People wanted private warmasters for 1 of 3 reasons :

Reason number 1 : So they could solo the warmaster and essentially try to get the best loot. If private warmasters were free, it would cause almost local warmasters to be never run.

Reason number 2 : People were tired of low egos coming in and not paying attention to what anyone says, and just doing their own thing. Ever seen an actual MMO raid? Yeah, when people dont pay attention, what happens? The raid wipes.

Reason number 3: Clans want private warmasters so they can do clan only warmasters, or not get trolled by any other people coming in to intentionally ruin or cause failure.

The warmaster is not broken, in fact it is very easy to kill. Regardless if he stands still for 45 seconds, or immediately moves, as long as you have a certain amount of people using the correct weapons to get the right amount of dps off, and understand the fight, should never fail. There are no ridiculous mechanics to the fight involved, if everyone focuses one area, then it is a piece of cake. My clan on average can kill the warmaster in about a minute, leaving 5 minutes left on average. Our fastest time with the threat level bugged was around 30 seconds. Our fastest time with the threat level not bugged is around 40 seconds. Before the decoy thing was realized and the warmaster actually moved, our fastest time was 1min 12 seconds. Wow, how broken....... You must have never done a true raid or dungeon, go play rift, go do their t3 raids, come back here and do warmaster and laugh at how easy it is.

Mister Derpenhowser
02-18-2015, 02:42 AM
You do realize private warmasters will be raised to TL10 regardless if it is just you or 30 other people in it right?

People wanted private warmasters for 1 of 3 reasons :

Reason number 1 : So they could solo the warmaster and essentially try to get the best loot. If private warmasters were free, it would cause almost local warmasters to be never run.

Reason number 2 : People were tired of low egos coming in and not paying attention to what anyone says, and just doing their own thing. Ever seen an actual MMO raid? Yeah, when people dont pay attention, what happens? The raid wipes.

Reason number 3: Clans want private warmasters so they can do clan only warmasters, or not get trolled by any other people coming in to intentionally ruin or cause failure.

The warmaster is not broken, in fact it is very easy to kill. Regardless if he stands still for 45 seconds, or immediately moves, as long as you have a certain amount of people using the correct weapons to get the right amount of dps off, and understand the fight, should never fail. There are no ridiculous mechanics to the fight involved, if everyone focuses one area, then it is a piece of cake. My clan on average can kill the warmaster in about a minute, leaving 5 minutes left on average. Our fastest time with the threat level bugged was around 30 seconds. Our fastest time with the threat level not bugged is around 40 seconds. Before the decoy thing was realized and the warmaster actually moved, our fastest time was 1min 12 seconds. Wow, how broken....... You must have never done a true raid or dungeon, go play rift, go do their t3 raids, come back here and do warmaster and laugh at how easy it is.

Since you were instantly wrong on your first sentence I didn't bother reading the rest. With me n my gf, wm was TL6, when a friend joined TL8 and 4 or more it becomes TL10. Not sure of the the TL solo so I wont assume anything.

Psycroww
02-18-2015, 02:51 AM
Since you were instantly wrong on your first sentence I didn't bother reading the rest. With me n my gf, wm was TL6, when a friend joined TL8 and 4 or more it becomes TL10. Not sure of the the TL solo so I wont assume anything.

On the current pts, yes it does not scale to tl10 immediately, it will when it hits live

WhiteStrike
02-18-2015, 02:55 AM
You do realize private warmasters will be raised to TL10 regardless if it is just you or 30 other people in it right?

People wanted private warmasters for 1 of 3 reasons :

Reason number 1 : So they could solo the warmaster and essentially try to get the best loot. If private warmasters were free, it would cause almost local warmasters to be never run.

Reason number 2 : People were tired of low egos coming in and not paying attention to what anyone says, and just doing their own thing. Ever seen an actual MMO raid? Yeah, when people dont pay attention, what happens? The raid wipes.

Reason number 3: Clans want private warmasters so they can do clan only warmasters, or not get trolled by any other people coming in to intentionally ruin or cause failure.

The warmaster is not broken, in fact it is very easy to kill. Regardless if he stands still for 45 seconds, or immediately moves, as long as you have a certain amount of people using the correct weapons to get the right amount of dps off, and understand the fight, should never fail. There are no ridiculous mechanics to the fight involved, if everyone focuses one area, then it is a piece of cake. My clan on average can kill the warmaster in about a minute, leaving 5 minutes left on average. Our fastest time with the threat level bugged was around 30 seconds. Our fastest time with the threat level not bugged is around 40 seconds. Before the decoy thing was realized and the warmaster actually moved, our fastest time was 1min 12 seconds. Wow, how broken....... You must have never done a true raid or dungeon, go play rift, go do their t3 raids, come back here and do warmaster and laugh at how easy it is.

That's because you're in a big clan without many schmuks.On PS3 EU and XBox EU,most people who do Warmaster are noobs using Crimefighters,,BMGs and Infectors,leading to a complete failure.Also,they don't read the chat.

Psycroww
02-18-2015, 03:00 AM
That's because you're in a big clan without many schmuks.On PS3 EU and XBox EU,most people who do Warmaster are noobs using Crimefighters,,BMGs and Infectors,leading to a complete failure.Also,they don't read the chat.

Which is why I said people wanted private warmasters. The OP said things like broken design and broken system. The reason why people fail the warmaster isn't a cause from the design or the system ( i dont even know what system they are referring to because its not a system to begin with, its a mob clear arkfall that requires 4 spikes to be planted and it turns into a very simple mechanic based boss fight) it is failed due to the players not doing it properly or effective.

I will refer to the warmaster as a raid and not a dungeon because of the amount of people necessarily needed to complete it. Look at any raid from trions own mmo rift, or wow etc etc. Each raid has a strategy to it, the straegy of the warmaster is to aim in one of the 3 targets, and have everyone focus that one spot. Move with him, avoid his bombs, easily dodge his mechanics since they are the same every fight, dont go down multiple times, and use proper dps weapons. If everyone does that, it never fails. You dont enter the hardest raid in the game with dungeon gear, you fail. You dont enter a raid unprepared and you dont do a raid if you dont know how to do it or you fail. It hardly ever happens where you have a full group of people doing things correctly and you dont complete it.

People have complained about the warmaster for the longest time, QQ some more like the OP. Based off of actual raids, it should be a lot harder, there should be different mechanics, and there should be more then one boss. It is so simple, yet so sad because the reason why people fail so much is because no one knows what they are doing. He is essentially a giant bulls-eye going back and forth in a circle, you hit the bullseye, GG. You have peopel use explosives and huge dps loss weapons, or everyone shoots at a diffferent bullseye, then it fails. It's not difficult, i can promise you the only reason private warmasters are coming is STRICTLY because people complain that no one arrives and listens, they all want to be independent and make their own choices and do what they want. They dont organize it, they dont create a strategy, and when they fail 10 times out of 10, they come here and complain. So private WMS are being made for people to organize it themselves and not worry about the people who will come in and screw it up. Raids/dungeons are meant to be dependent things. You have to depend on your group, if you have a bunch of BMG crimefighter boomer people, then guess what, you lose because they are bringing low tier items into the most difficult thing in the game. You will fail, it's not rocket science

Chump Norris
02-18-2015, 03:11 AM
Which is why I said people wanted private warmasters. The OP said things like broken design and broken system. The reason why people fail the warmaster isn't a cause from the design or the system ( i dont even know what system they are referring to because its not a system to begin with, its a mob clear arkfall that requires 4 spikes to be planted and it turns into a very simple mechanic based boss fight) it is failed due to the players not doing it properly or effective.

The fast WM videos I have seen from CRONUS are zerging the WM. That isn't how they intended the WM to be fought...I dont hold that against anyone but being able to zerg the WM in 30 secs doesn't mean there isn't a problem. The WM is very broken on consoles (definitely PS3) when it comes to actually getting inside.

Deadeye Joe
02-18-2015, 03:20 AM
Warmaster and arkbreaker are a paid for dlc. Of course you shouldn't have to pay again in order to make the instance viable. There should be no further discussion.

Psycroww
02-18-2015, 03:27 AM
The fast WM videos I have seen from CRONUS are zerging the WM. That isn't how they intended the WM to be fought...I dont hold that against anyone but being able to zerg the WM in 30 secs doesn't mean there isn't a problem. The WM is very broken on consoles (definitely PS3) when it comes to actually getting inside.

My point was, we have done it without zerging it and have done it in a minute. In a 6 minute fight without zerging, we can kill him in 1 minute, that is not difficult and I dont care what people say, there is a difference between saying the warmaster is difficult and broken, and getting inside of it is broken. That is two completely different things. What the op said was wrong, plain and simple. Private WMS were community suggested, and they gave their reasons. you dont have to PAY money to get in them, think of it as having to wait weekly to get your spikes.



I can agree with the tile of private warmasters should be free, but his description is a completely different path from what the title states. At the same time, I dont necessarily agree with free private warmasters given at will, because the big clans that dominate most of the server will always do that, lets be honest, why do a legit one with scrubs when you can organize your own with no hassel and get the same loot? They cant make it completely free, it wont be fair. And again, you dont HAVE to pay

You dont see people complaining about weeklies taking a week to reset, or the weekly arkhunter bonus taking a week to arrive, so why are people complaining that you have to wait for 3 of the coins to do a private instance?

Chump Norris
02-18-2015, 03:44 AM
My point was, we have done it without zerging it and have done it in a minute. In a 6 minute fight without zerging, we can kill him in 1 minute, that is not difficult and I dont care what people say, there is a difference between saying the warmaster is difficult and broken, and getting inside of it is broken. That is two completely different things. What the op said was wrong, plain and simple. Private WMS were community suggested, and they gave their reasons. you dont have to PAY money to get in them, think of it as having to wait weekly to get your spikes.



I can agree with the tile of private warmasters should be free, but his description is a completely different path from what the title states. At the same time, I dont necessarily agree with free private warmasters given at will, because the big clans that dominate most of the server will always do that, lets be honest, why do a legit one with scrubs when you can organize your own with no hassel and get the same loot? They cant make it completely free, it wont be fair. And again, you dont HAVE to pay

You dont see people complaining about weeklies taking a week to reset, or the weekly arkhunter bonus taking a week to arrive, so why are people complaining that you have to wait for 3 of the coins to do a private instance?

I don't think the OP is saying the WM is to hard. These are the points of the OP I focused on.


Players only want private warmasters, so they can escape the broken public warmaster design. We wouldn't need private warmasters if you would have more efficiently coded the design the first time.

EGO telling people to shoot the locks when we have 5 minutes to get people inside is bad design to me.


We wouldn't need private warmasters if you coded the connections properly the first time. What if players are still critting out 75%+ in every private warmaster? Will you refund the requisitions? I doubt it.

This is a big concern of mine.

stefb42
02-18-2015, 04:58 AM
The wm isn't broken? So the glitching into walls and his cloak like effect, invisible, can dmg you but you can't see or dmg him is intentional? Ok, and the game freezing on the rewards screen 8 times out of 10 and robbing us of our items is working as intended too? Has some great features this instance huh

Seems pc players have less of an issue with what's upcoming, maybe that's just the nature of pc gaming? F2P games designed to drain the bank account? IDK but I do know I don't touch f2p games because of the microtransactions so why should I have it forced on me in a game I paid for

konstantinov
02-18-2015, 05:08 AM
Guys, the OP is talking about the window lickers.

SUPREEM
02-18-2015, 05:34 AM
All I want to know,

WHEN WILL THE CRITICAL ERRORS AND TIMEOUTS STOP!

Game has been around since 2013, players are still complaining of constant crit outs, all we get is new content to DC from, makes sense?

ButtTheRipper
02-18-2015, 06:11 AM
Warmaster and arkbreaker are a paid for dlc. Of course you shouldn't have to pay again in order to make the instance viable. There should be no further discussion.
This a thousand times! Why, is an additional charge being tacked on in an update to make the DLC finally work properly?

Ryker Vorton
02-18-2015, 06:43 AM
On the current pts, yes it does not scale to tl10 immediately, it will when it hits live

In the current PTS the WM is TL 10 no matter if is it a private or public instance nor if you are alone or with more people, it is just fixed TL 10 (and he got boosted too)

When i think of what's happening to WM i want to give back my arkbreaker DLC and ask for a refund, after all it had few worthness already with quite a few of the AB weapons broken, or nearly impossible to get, with useless synergies, severely nerfed and now easily overpassed by newer common (non-dlc) weapons. Honestly we had enough of a headache with arkbreaks being open to non dlc owners and getting our arkbreaks ruined by them to now going to be charged to enjoy what we already paid for.

r1p
02-18-2015, 08:40 AM
I have to disagree with you as well Psycroww. If you follow the link in my sig you can see a lot of the reasons why I'm now boycotting the WM. It doesn't really matter why people want the private instances attached to Hunter Reqs because I believe the biggest issue is this: we already paid for the DLC and we shouldn't have to pay twice.

Players that bought the DLC enable a lot of players who didn't buy it access to that content and unfortunately a lot of these players make it impossible to even have a chance of beating the WM whether it's because they are uneducated, selfish, or griefing. I've only been in a party competent enough to kill the WM once since I started playing 5 months ago. I don't expect to beat it often but I want a fighting chance and the only way to do that is to allow me to pick who goes in with me.

Another thing that rubs me raw is that Trion relies on us to instantiate the WM arkfall so that they can sell the Hunter Reqs. Basically we paid for the privilege to run out and plant ark spikes so that Trion's Hunter Req store can make money. Why should we do that when there is no benefit to us? Why should we have to pay the same price for admission as the players who don't own it? There is little benefit to owning the DLC as it is and now there is even less.

The obvious and fair resolution to this issue is for Trion to use Ark Spikes as the currency for private WM instances instead of Hunter Reqs. DLC owners currently get 1 spike per day for daily rewards, not sure about weekly, so they could charge 2 spikes for a private instance. By using Ark Spikes as currency it is in keeping with the DLC's intent and would actually encourage players that don't have it to actually buy it if they want private instances. I know that $10 for the DLC is not the same as the recurring revenue train that Trion is thinking about, but it is reasonable and fair to the people who have already given them money for the product in the first place while at the same time makes them money.

KILLSHOT707
02-18-2015, 08:49 AM
I think the whole idea of private WM is great, but 3 tokens is way to much. One forge would be fair. We have put up with the broken WM for so long that would the least they could do. I

WhiteStrike
02-18-2015, 08:52 AM
In the current PTS the WM is TL 10 no matter if is it a private or public instance nor if you are alone or with more people, it is just fixed TL 10 (and he got boosted too)

When i think of what's happening to WM i want to give back my arkbreaker DLC and ask for a refund, after all it had few worthness already with quite a few of the AB weapons broken, or nearly impossible to get, with useless synergies, severely nerfed and now easily overpassed by newer common (non-dlc) weapons. Honestly we had enough of a headache with arkbreaks being open to non dlc owners and getting our arkbreaks ruined by them to now going to be charged to enjoy what we already paid for.

Nooooo!Now it is completely impossible to get a succesful run in PS3 EU:(

hardy83
02-18-2015, 08:59 AM
Haven't run the WM in a while now.
I think it's a good example of bad game design. lol A VERY good example.

This private instance doesn't seem like it'll fix anything, other than completely kill what few people still do it normally. I suppose you'll have one or two groups farming it, but everyone else will forget he exists.
...The rewards were never that good either, even if you beat him. RNG usually spit in your face and yells "Ha ha! You wasted your time!"

Holy Bahamut3
02-18-2015, 09:21 AM
Which is why I said people wanted private warmasters. The OP said things like broken design and broken system. The reason why people fail the warmaster isn't a cause from the design or the system ( i dont even know what system they are referring to because its not a system to begin with, its a mob clear arkfall that requires 4 spikes to be planted and it turns into a very simple mechanic based boss fight) it is failed due to the players not doing it properly or effective.

I will refer to the warmaster as a raid and not a dungeon because of the amount of people necessarily needed to complete it. Look at any raid from trions own mmo rift, or wow etc etc. Each raid has a strategy to it, the straegy of the warmaster is to aim in one of the 3 targets, and have everyone focus that one spot. Move with him, avoid his bombs, easily dodge his mechanics since they are the same every fight, dont go down multiple times, and use proper dps weapons. If everyone does that, it never fails. You dont enter the hardest raid in the game with dungeon gear, you fail. You dont enter a raid unprepared and you dont do a raid if you dont know how to do it or you fail. It hardly ever happens where you have a full group of people doing things correctly and you dont complete it.

People have complained about the warmaster for the longest time, QQ some more like the OP. Based off of actual raids, it should be a lot harder, there should be different mechanics, and there should be more then one boss. It is so simple, yet so sad because the reason why people fail so much is because no one knows what they are doing. He is essentially a giant bulls-eye going back and forth in a circle, you hit the bullseye, GG. You have peopel use explosives and huge dps loss weapons, or everyone shoots at a diffferent bullseye, then it fails. It's not difficult, i can promise you the only reason private warmasters are coming is STRICTLY because people complain that no one arrives and listens, they all want to be independent and make their own choices and do what they want. They dont organize it, they dont create a strategy, and when they fail 10 times out of 10, they come here and complain. So private WMS are being made for people to organize it themselves and not worry about the people who will come in and screw it up. Raids/dungeons are meant to be dependent things. You have to depend on your group, if you have a bunch of BMG crimefighter boomer people, then guess what, you lose because they are bringing low tier items into the most difficult thing in the game. You will fail, it's not rocket science

But you forget psycrow according to the devs, those people doing their own thing and ruining the instance for the rest of us are doing it right. Those of us who organize are the trolls in their eyes.

SUPREEM
02-18-2015, 09:25 AM
I think the whole idea of private WM is great, but 3 tokens is way to much. One forge would be fair. We have put up with the broken WM for so long that would the least they could do. I

The least they could do is stop with the bells and whistles (new content, events) and FIX THE PROBLEM CUASING CONSTANT CRITICAL ERRORS.

Holy Bahamut3
02-18-2015, 09:25 AM
My point was, we have done it without zerging it and have done it in a minute. In a 6 minute fight without zerging, we can kill him in 1 minute, that is not difficult and I dont care what people say, there is a difference between saying the warmaster is difficult and broken, and getting inside of it is broken. That is two completely different things. What the op said was wrong, plain and simple. Private WMS were community suggested, and they gave their reasons. you dont have to PAY money to get in them, think of it as having to wait weekly to get your spikes.



I can agree with the tile of private warmasters should be free, but his description is a completely different path from what the title states. At the same time, I dont necessarily agree with free private warmasters given at will, because the big clans that dominate most of the server will always do that, lets be honest, why do a legit one with scrubs when you can organize your own with no hassel and get the same loot? They cant make it completely free, it wont be fair. And again, you dont HAVE to pay

You dont see people complaining about weeklies taking a week to reset, or the weekly arkhunter bonus taking a week to arrive, so why are people complaining that you have to wait for 3 of the coins to do a private instance?

I think a good middle ground would be 3 hunter requisitions should be given in the weekly for all who have the Arkbreaker DLC. That way they can play it however they want at least once a week.

ButtTheRipper
02-18-2015, 09:56 AM
I think a good middle ground would be 3 hunter requisitions should be given in the weekly for all who have the Arkbreaker DLC. That way they can play it however they want at least once a week.
Do you mean 3 additional Hunter Requisitions to the 1 they plan on giving everyone; bringing Arkbreaker DLC owners to 4 Hunter Requisitions a week? I could mb get behind that. I'm going to feel something that shouldn't be posted here if DLC doesn't give anything.

Phobos9000
02-18-2015, 10:09 AM
You guys make a lot of valid points. Private WMs could cause less public WMs to be called down; and then there's the concern on how private WMs should be free.

I think the WM needs to be nerfed. It's a little too strong and hard to defeat when you have to rely on randoms. If the boss had less health and easier to beat, more major arkfalls would be called down, and players wanting to private the instance, would be free to do so (free of charge of course) ;)

Holy Bahamut3
02-18-2015, 10:31 AM
You guys make a lot of valid points. Private WMs could cause less public WMs to be called down; and then there's the concern on how private WMs should be free.

I think the WM needs to be nerfed. It's a little too strong and hard to defeat when you have to rely on randoms. If the boss had less health and easier to beat, more major arkfalls would be called down, and players wanting to private the instance, would be free to do so (free of charge of course) ;)

I think their is a disconnect between the PC and console users. I have played both so I totally get that the Watmaster on console is a sick joke, especially since they implemented the timers. On PC with a good clan and competent group he drops quite frequently and quickly. Nerfing him won't go over well on PC, but may make it easier for console players. I think solutions that don't involve wrecking it for others need to be considered.

Psycroww
02-18-2015, 11:02 AM
I can't speak on console's behalf; therefore I don't know how warmaster is on console. However what I do know is that pc will always be the dominant version over console, no offense to the console players. As I already mentioned, without a zerg (beyond the necessary amount of players) we can kill him in about a minute to a minute in a half on PC-NA. If he gets nerfed, well..... I don't think I need to elaborate more on that. I think people misguided my original comments, the OP failed to elaborate on what designs he was talking about, the only valid point he made was about a possible refund which there is already a separate thread on.

So I took it as a rant on how impossible the warmaster is because of some design. On PC-NA the warmaster is sickly EASY. The warmaster is just one giant target, with a ton of health, and a large amount of damage. He isn't difficult, simply for that reason alone. He is just a big bullet sponge, with no true mechanics. So assuming the warmaster works the same as it does on pc-na, there should be no complaints whatsoever.


As for the private instance being free, I never disagreed with that. I just disagree with the ability to go into a private warmaster at will. There would be no point to do the actual ones, thats what most people would do, it would kind of exploit the loot drops and wouldn't be fair tot he people who got the impossible drops on the legit arkfalls. If there is no loot, then sure make it free at will because the purpose of that would be to practice and prepare for the legit ones. However 3 coins are way too much for F2P because you get one per week, so I have to wait 3 weeks to do an private warmaster and completely avoid the expeditions if I want to play free? I don't agree with that at all

Gai
02-18-2015, 11:10 AM
Warmaster and arkbreaker are a paid for dlc. Of course you shouldn't have to pay again in order to make the instance viable. There should be no further discussion.

/thread

/discussion

Phobos9000
02-18-2015, 12:16 PM
I think their is a disconnect between the PC and console users. I have played both so I totally get that the Watmaster on console is a sick joke, especially since they implemented the timers. On PC with a good clan and competent group he drops quite frequently and quickly. Nerfing him won't go over well on PC, but may make it easier for console players. I think solutions that don't involve wrecking it for others need to be considered.

They can patch the console versions and leave the PC's alone, can't they?

r1p
02-18-2015, 12:27 PM
You guys make a lot of valid points. Private WMs could cause less public WMs to be called down; and then there's the concern on how private WMs should be free.

I think the WM needs to be nerfed. It's a little too strong and hard to defeat when you have to rely on randoms. If the boss had less health and easier to beat, more major arkfalls would be called down, and players wanting to private the instance, would be free to do so (free of charge of course) ;)

Unless I missed something, nothing will change when when the WM is called down and there will always be a public WM. A private instance is created when you enter the arkfall and choose to pay for your own separate private instance. This means that there will be no impact on the number of public WMs.

Also I don't want the WM to be easier because the difficulty is the whole reason I want face it in the first place. I just want a fighting chance when I do.

ButtTheRipper
02-18-2015, 01:19 PM
Unless I missed something, nothing will change when when the WM is called down and there will always be a public WM. A private instance is created when you enter the arkfall and choose to pay for your own separate private instance. This means that there will be no impact on the number of public WMs.

Also I don't want the WM to be easier because the difficulty is the whole reason I want face it in the first place. I just want a fighting chance when I do.

Should still include the private instances with the DLC without a paywall. Why should I have to pay in game currency for spikes(or wait to accumulate in dailies) and then call down a Major(another ability that I paid for through the DLC, but this time with real money) just to have it ruined, but if I want to do it right I have to pay real money YET AGAIN to make it private.


>>>>I'm kinda p'oed that I can call down an arkfall, it gets ruined by being public because I won't pay, but non-dlc owners still are able to pay to make a private instance off of my paid content that I made available. If I/We didn't pay for the DLC there would be no WM.

Holy Bahamut3
02-18-2015, 01:59 PM
They can patch the console versions and leave the PC's alone, can't they?

Probably not, we can drag Rashere in here to be sure, but I'm pretty sure we'll get some tech speak on how it would be impossible to do that.

satirized
02-18-2015, 02:46 PM
WM is estimated to have around 300million health. A fire converted golden ring have around 300k dps not counting damage spikes, OC or other nano proc. For 10 people, it takes 60 seconds to kill him with proper weapons. Its easy.

If anything, the WM needs a significant buff.

Dixie Cougar
02-18-2015, 03:07 PM
"Let's disable those locks and crack this nut open!"

Bad design, no doubt about it.

konstantinov
02-18-2015, 03:22 PM
WM is estimated to have around 300million health. A fire converted golden ring have around 300k dps not counting damage spikes, OC or other nano proc. For 10 people, it takes 60 seconds to kill him with proper weapons. Its easy.

If anything, the WM needs a significant buff.

You're right, the WM isn't very tough and let's be honest 10 max ego guys with the right setup could easily kill him all day long. It's not the WM that's too tough, it's the 85% of the people doing the WM that aren't too bright.


"Let's disable those locks and crack this nut open!"

Bad design, no doubt about it.

A little situational awareness never killed anyone.

ButtTheRipper
02-18-2015, 03:26 PM
"Let's disable those locks and crack this nut open!"

Bad design, no doubt about it.

Yeah shooting the locks as intended should benefit the players.

Dixie Cougar
02-18-2015, 03:36 PM
A little situational awareness never killed anyone.

Me thinks he doth expect too much :P

Chris Robet
02-18-2015, 03:38 PM
They can patch the console versions and leave the PC's alone, can't they?

One of the big selling points that Trion says about this game is that the PC and Console versions are exactly the same So that's a no.

TheStigsCousin
02-18-2015, 03:42 PM
I don't think there ever should have been public warmasters to begin with. If I had known I could access the warmaster without buying the dlc, I never would have bought it. I have never seen a game where you could have access to dlc without owning the dlc.

Simplest solution --
No more public warmasters. If you don't own the dlc, you can't enter.

Dixie Cougar
02-18-2015, 03:50 PM
One of the big selling points that Trion says about this game is that the PC and Console versions are exactly the same So that's a no.

Still trying to figure out what biz school (I graduated from one, I know the type) marketing genius thought that was a "big selling point" lol

Not that I think they should be dramatically different gameplay wise, but if peripheral things (or user adjustable settings) can be optimized for one platform or another they ought to be.

Jeff Lonestar
02-18-2015, 05:51 PM
I think a good middle ground would be 3 hunter requisitions should be given in the weekly for all who have the Arkbreaker DLC. That way they can play it however they want at least once a week.

That is EXACTLY what I was thinking! Trion Should Give players who buy or have bought the ArkBreaker DLC as Many Tokens as they Do Ark Battery Spikes! that would be totally Fair for Everyone who Actually Bought the DLC to Call Down Major Arkfalls in the First Place! PROBLEM SOVED TRION!

OuchThatHurt
02-18-2015, 09:47 PM
I always thought that if i called down a major i should be able to kick people out who are griefing or just being useless using a BMG CF ect.

That said those who didn't pay for the DLC should not have access to it other wise what's the point of buying said DLC when you can access it for free?

Even on PC with a large clan we get sent into 3-4 different instances and then have to find a clean one and invite people into it because the game can't seam to place clan members together like in a proper raid system for example... and even then you get random people greifing who aren;t from the clan would have been better to make a proper raid system for WM/ark breaker DLC and not have it as a free for all.

I for one will refuse to buy any tokens to use in a DLC i've already paid for and knowing what i know now I would never have bought said DLC.

Graywolfe
02-18-2015, 09:55 PM
I think the WM should have started out as private and who ever called it down, sometimes that is more than one person, would then be able to decide if it would be open to public access or to just the people they personally invite.

dremora ven0m
02-18-2015, 11:52 PM
xbox eu player..


I love doing the WM I hate the fact people are still usong the wrong weapons, I have spent time & alot of scrip to have the right weapons needed to defeat him. Yet people use bmgs, defiant few, infectors, rl's, dets & the new fav the northstar!
Seriously no mažer how many times people ask for these not to be used it makes no difference. I wont mention the locks to much aside from as someone pointed out the ego tells the to shoot them!!
When a WM is tried to be organized by a clan like today as it happens I got an invite from the leader (not my clan) as thet know I am more than capable of holding my own & going about it the correct way. By the time the outside was cleared there was nearly 60 people trying to get in, as randoms see it on the map & turn up ill prepared & with aforementioned weapons. Upon entering the ark (amazed i didnt crit out) I wasnt with my group but a completely random bunch. This isnt the 1st time this has happened its a regular problem.
Alot of the vet players on xbox eu avoid the WM altogether these days because of the misused weapons & for want of a better word trolls who it seems enjoy ruining the event for everyone with their actions. I am not a vet player I am f2p so I still just about enjoy the challenge of WM but it is ruined everytime.
I have even tried to solo him only for randoms showing up as I am finishing the outside & even tho they can see I am alone plus I am asking them to leave they procced to enter & make it a waste of time for everyone!
I do not agree with trions decision of the cost to enter or the decision to make solo attempts TL10.
Sorry if this is a wall of text or if it makes no sense, 1 its 06:51 in the morning I need sleep or coffee
2 I am using my mobile to write this so apologise for any errors I may have made!

thank you & good day to you..

dremora ven0m
02-18-2015, 11:54 PM
I think the WM should have started out as private and who ever called it down, sometimes that is more than one person, would then be able to decide if it would be open to public access or to just the people they personally invite.

I wish this was how it was atm, totally agree.

Dixie Cougar
02-19-2015, 12:02 AM
I always thought that if i called down a major i should be able to kick people out who are griefing or just being useless using a BMG CF ect.

That said those who didn't pay for the DLC should not have access to it other wise what's the point of buying said DLC when you can access it for free?

Even on PC with a large clan we get sent into 3-4 different instances and then have to find a clean one and invite people into it because the game can't seam to place clan members together like in a proper raid system for example... and even then you get random people greifing who aren;t from the clan would have been better to make a proper raid system for WM/ark breaker DLC and not have it as a free for all.

I for one will refuse to buy any tokens to use in a DLC i've already paid for and knowing what i know now I would never have bought said DLC.

Yes! Again, broken. The existence of workarounds doesnt change that!

konstantinov
02-19-2015, 04:51 AM
It wouldn't be as big of an issue if they made it where only people with the DLC could participate.

Ryker Vorton
02-19-2015, 06:39 AM
It wouldn't be as big of an issue if they made it where only people with the DLC could participate.

Been wishing for this since the first day i got the DLC, for both WM and the minor arkbreaks too.

r1p
02-19-2015, 08:27 AM
Should still include the private instances with the DLC without a paywall. Why should I have to pay in game currency for spikes(or wait to accumulate in dailies) and then call down a Major(another ability that I paid for through the DLC, but this time with real money) just to have it ruined, but if I want to do it right I have to pay real money YET AGAIN to make it private.


>>>>I'm kinda p'oed that I can call down an arkfall, it gets ruined by being public because I won't pay, but non-dlc owners still are able to pay to make a private instance off of my paid content that I made available. If I/We didn't pay for the DLC there would be no WM.

I don't disagree with this at all and it's in keeping with what I've been saying all along. I've been advocating is that it cost X number of spikes to create a private instance instead of Hunter Reqs.

Let's just say that it's 4 spikes for a private instance. I can show up drop the 4 four spikes and I get a private instance. Anyone else wants a private instance then they pay 4 spikes when they choose the private instance option from the console when they enter the ark fall. Don't have the DLC or enough spikes then you enter the public instance. Also there is no need to wait at the site for everyone to show up before dropping the spikes because you get to choose who you want to invite when you enter the ark fall. They could even make it so that you have to have the DLC to get invited to a private instance because that's the way expansion packs normally work. No more spamming area chat with instructions to wait. It also creates a scrip sink because players who want to run WM more often can buy spikes for 40K scrip at the vendor. In my opinion this is the best solution because the DLC owners finally get a usable WM experience, a public WM instance is still available, and Trion can still make money by selling more Arkbreaker DLC. As of right now who in their right mind would buy the DLC when someone else can drop the spikes and you can get in for free?

Tekrunner
02-19-2015, 08:37 AM
It's too bad Trion never added the possibility to create larger groups, because that could have made organizing WMs so much easier. A long time ago, back when there was still a French CM, I remember him telling us there were plans for groups of up to 16 players, to allow clan PvP matches. Sadly now PvP is barely alive and Warmaster is the only raid type of content in the game. New content focuses either on the open world or on groups of 4 at max, so Trion probably can't justify spending resources on making larger groups.

I don't know if people are going to spend money / free reqs on private WM, but I certainly won't, at least for a while. No one wins if people ignore private matches: neither Trion, who spent resources on a feature no one uses, nor players, who gain no benefit from the feature existing.

konstantinov
02-19-2015, 08:49 AM
It's too bad Trion never added the possibility to create larger groups, because that could have made organizing WMs so much easier. A long time ago, back when there was still a French CM, I remember him telling us there were plans for groups of up to 16 players, to allow clan PvP matches. Sadly now PvP is barely alive and Warmaster is the only raid type of content in the game. New content focuses either on the open world or on groups of 4 at max, so Trion probably can't justify spending resources on making larger groups.

I don't know if people are going to spend money / free reqs on private WM, but I certainly won't, at least for a while. No one wins if people ignore private matches: neither Trion, who spent resources on a feature no one uses, nor players, who gain no benefit from the feature existing.

Nope I'll be encompassed in expeditions, which will be way more beneficial than year old content.

WhiteStrike
02-19-2015, 10:33 AM
I don't disagree with this at all and it's in keeping with what I've been saying all along. I've been advocating is that it cost X number of spikes to create a private instance instead of Hunter Reqs.

Let's just say that it's 4 spikes for a private instance. I can show up drop the 4 four spikes and I get a private instance. Anyone else wants a private instance then they pay 4 spikes when they choose the private instance option from the console when they enter the ark fall. Don't have the DLC or enough spikes then you enter the public instance. Also there is no need to wait at the site for everyone to show up before dropping the spikes because you get to choose who you want to invite when you enter the ark fall. They could even make it so that you have to have the DLC to get invited to a private instance because that's the way expansion packs normally work. No more spamming area chat with instructions to wait. It also creates a scrip sink because players who want to run WM more often can buy spikes for 40K scrip at the vendor. In my opinion this is the best solution because the DLC owners finally get a usable WM experience, a public WM instance is still available, and Trion can still make money by selling more Arkbreaker DLC. As of right now who in their right mind would buy the DLC when someone else can drop the spikes and you can get in for free?

Quoting Hutch,Trion:"Do it."

TNO
02-19-2015, 06:11 PM
Warmaster and arkbreaker are a paid for dlc. Of course you shouldn't have to pay again in order to make the instance viable. There should be no further discussion.

What he said!

Razar2380
02-20-2015, 01:19 AM
Personally, I don't think that those that have the DLC should have to pay again, just because want to do it in a private queue. I am disabled with no income, and cannot get access to any of the DLC myself. If all of the players that have the DLC want to do them in private queues, then I would not be bothered by it.

After learning how to properly do the mission, I love doing it. I think it is awesome to do, and fun. I have never been in one that finished it quickly, and out of about 6-8 of them I have run, I have only been in 1 that was completed due to others not reading chat to find out what to do. So I can understand the complaints from those that have paid for the DLC.

I wish I could call down the Arkfalls myself. I would call them down just to run in and do them with anyone, all for the fun of it. However, just because I wouldn't do it in a private queue if I had the ability to, doesn't mean I don't want others to have that option for free.

I hope the developers don't charge for it, and that there are many out there that would invite me to run it with them. If not, I am still enjoying the game as it is, and look forward to seeing more new content, and missions. The Expeditions look really fun too.