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View Full Version : Can we have an official explanation on recent loot nerf?



Elandriel
04-04-2013, 11:17 PM
Third day and you have already nerfed loot drops. Why?

Munx
04-04-2013, 11:28 PM
They nerfed mini boss loot because it dropped so frequently that there was little point in doing anything else, really dosnt require a explination.

And they also buffed loot within the last 3 days, you conveniently forgot to mention that.

Pasha
04-04-2013, 11:45 PM
there is little point in doing anything

Fixed that for you. Without loot drops game becomes PvE Planetside (i.e. boring). Example: I used to farm biomen / mutant grenadiers for loot, now I don't do mini-events at all since there is 0 interesting loot drops and ~0 xp.

Valethar
04-04-2013, 11:46 PM
They nerfed mini boss loot because it dropped so frequently that there was little point in doing anything else, really dosnt require a explination.

And they also buffed loot within the last 3 days, you conveniently forgot to mention that.

Not noticeably they didn't.

Vendor prices took a large hit. Grenades that sold for 500 now sell for 100. As long as the loot boost is active, you get primarily whites, and it's almost all grenades and shields. This despite the text on the loot boost that states it will increase the rarity of drops. Appears it's decreasing them instead.

This was something the testers pointed out before release. I've been running all evening with a group of Alpha testers, hitting every spawn we can find. All of us are finding whites more than anything, and very few of those are weapons. In testing, you'd get more greens without the loot boost than you do with it. Apparently they've not dealt with that yet.

Elandriel
04-04-2013, 11:46 PM
They nerfed mini boss loot because it dropped so frequently that there was little point in doing anything else, really dosnt require a explination.

And they also buffed loot within the last 3 days, you conveniently forgot to mention that.

Which loot did they buff?
I must have killed 20 different mini bosses yesterday and not a single loot drop. To me that feels like a huge nerf.

Sanguinesun
04-04-2013, 11:50 PM
Third day and you have already nerfed loot drops. Why?


Because there were spots (we all talked about in alpha testing that they ignored) where you can literally run between 2-3 roadside spawn missions which had mutant or other mini bosses, kill them, and speed level/loot up to your hearts content.

However the manner by which they're attempting to address the issue is a swing of the pendulum in the opposite direction, really.

Valethar
04-05-2013, 12:14 AM
Which loot did they buff?
I must have killed 20 different mini bosses yesterday and not a single loot drop. To me that feels like a huge nerf.

I killed a Monarch earlier, got a whopping 2 scrip.

Mini bosses are now just stronger versions of normal mobs with a worse loot table. They're mini bosses for a reason, because they require more effort to kill. The loot table should reflect this.

Valethar
04-05-2013, 12:15 AM
However the manner by which they're attempting to address the issue is a swing of the pendulum in the opposite direction, really.

Remind you of something Sanguine?

::cough::ammodebacle::cough::

Jeronan
04-05-2013, 12:38 AM
Not noticeably they didn't.

Vendor prices took a large hit. Grenades that sold for 500 now sell for 100. As long as the loot boost is active, you get primarily whites, and it's almost all grenades and shields. This despite the text on the loot boost that states it will increase the rarity of drops. Appears it's decreasing them instead.

This was something the testers pointed out before release. I've been running all evening with a group of Alpha testers, hitting every spawn we can find. All of us are finding whites more than anything, and very few of those are weapons. In testing, you'd get more greens without the loot boost than you do with it. Apparently they've not dealt with that yet.

Yup! I noticed that too and discovered it by accident that my loot drops improved drastically, when I switched out that perk With a different one!
I already found it strange my Inventory was filling up like crazy With white grenades and mods and was hardly getting any weapon drop when the Loot boost perk was active. :-/

Zubi
04-05-2013, 01:12 AM
No drops +++++ i dont wonna get uber items at start.

Sledgehammer70
04-05-2013, 01:24 AM
Third day and you have already nerfed loot drops. Why?

We found that loot was dropping far to often for players. Some found loop holes to run missions over and over again until they got their desired loot. We adjusted both these things to provide the proper scaling and leveling around loot.

Munx
04-05-2013, 02:11 AM
Which loot did they buff?
I must have killed 20 different mini bosses yesterday and not a single loot drop. To me that feels like a huge nerf.

Arkfall loot

Elandriel
04-05-2013, 02:12 AM
We found that loot was dropping far to often for players. Some found loop holes to run missions over and over again until they got their desired loot. We adjusted both these things to provide the proper scaling and leveling around loot.

Thanks.
What or how much is "proper scaling"? I know this is a tough one to answer, but you yourself used a term "to often", which implies you have some sort of pondering or statistical measurements for determining that.
I know that rng system is just that. Random. But after yesterday I have a feeling this rng works in a range of 5-10% possibility for getting loot.

DS Triggah
04-05-2013, 02:28 AM
Third day and you have already nerfed loot drops. Why?

Completely agree with you mate anyone who is experiencing anything different is mental and a complete fanboy i use to do lityle side help me missions whats the frecking point now none......

Daddums
04-05-2013, 02:56 AM
20 minutes with 20 other guys taking down the biggest bugs at an arkfall.

Result: One or two white drops from minor bugs (too often just a shield or grenade).

Why bother?

Devs- Please note: You built a loot-based game. If you take away the loot, you have very little to keep my attention.

Maybe pick on the quick, roadside stuff that caused the nerfs to begin with? Yes, it's a little more work, but swinging the nerf bat with such broad strokes is like doing surgery with an axe.

Jeronan
04-05-2013, 03:06 AM
20 minutes with 20 other guys taking down the biggest bugs at an arkfall.

Result: One or two white drops from minor bugs (too often just a shield or grenade).

Why bother?

Devs- Please note: You built a loot-based game. If you take away the loot, you have very little to keep my attention.

Maybe pick on the quick, roadside stuff that caused the nerfs to begin with? Yes, it's a little more work, but swinging the nerf bat with such broad strokes is like doing surgery with an axe.

I have so far not gotten any loot other than white trash from Ark falls! And on top of that they are bugged too, as more than not I am not even getting contribution XP / grit !

With these sledgehammer nerf actions.... the game really starts to become a chore instead of fun to play! :-/

MrTexas
04-05-2013, 03:06 AM
We found that loot was dropping far to often for players. Some found loop holes to run missions over and over again until they got their desired loot. We adjusted both these things to provide the proper scaling and leveling around loot.

too* (just sayin)

Valethar
04-05-2013, 03:33 AM
We found that loot was dropping far to often for players. Some found loop holes to run missions over and over again until they got their desired loot. We adjusted both these things to provide the proper scaling and leveling around loot.

Apparently something got broken in the process. I've killed several mini-boss type mobs today. Tankers, hulkers, monarchs, forges, etc.. I get scrip and salvage from them, nothing else.

Most of the time it's 2 scrip, which is ridiculous. Mini-bosses are now no different than normal mobs, save that they have more health and damage output, and a worse loot table. They're bosses for a reason, because they take more effort to kill. The loot table for these should reflect that. As it stands now, you're basically punished for killing them.

I'm fairly sure it's being compounded by the buggy loot boost code. According to the store description, the loot boost is supposed to increase the rarity of your drops. It does not. Instead, it DEcreases the rarity of drops to the point that over 90% of them are white, and the majority of that is shields and grenades.

This was something we pointed out in Beta 3, so it's not a new issue.

In just a few hours of play, I've gone through hundreds of hellbugs and raiders, with some dark matter and scrappers thrown in. Of those, I've killed at least 5 tankers, two monarchs, a hulker, and several forges. None of them dropped any gear.

Out of the rest of the mobs, I've picked up:

green rocket launcher x 1
white shield x 13
white grenade x 13
white infector x 3
white shotgun x 3
white grenade launcher x 1
white pistol x 1
white LMG x 1
white SMG x 1
white BMG x 2
white AR x 1
white rocket launcher x 2

The percentages are fairly evenly split between grenades, shields and weapons, though most of the time it seems heavily weighted towards shields and grenades. out of 42 drops, only one was a green. There were no other rarities involved. That's roughly a 98% drop rate for white items, and 2% for greens. Doesn't appear to leave any room in the mix for blues, purples or oranges.

This happened in Beta 3 as well, and was reported there, but apparently lost in shuffle leading up to release. While running missions, etc..

in Beta 3, I was doing much the same thing I've been doing today. In between story and side missions, I was hitting as many of the random encounters as I could find. While blues did seem to drop often on the mini-bosses, it made sense, because they're bosses. Greens dropped fairly often, though nowhere near as often as the white drops, which is as it should be. Once in a while, you'd get really lucky and see a purple. Again, as it should be. I decided to use some of the Bits you gave us to see what sort of difference they made in gameplay.

It made a difference all right. Drop rates went into the toilet. Greens became ultra-rares, while blues became the stuff of myth and legend. This is exactly how things are now in the release version of the game.

I'm fairly sure this is not how the boosts are supposed to work. If this is the intended mechanic, you're not going to sell many of them once the free time wears off, because the drop rates are far better without the boost.

It's also not just me that's seen it. I was grouped with some folks from the Alpha today, and even they were all commenting on this.

In your effort to curb farming, which really isn't a problem in a game with no economy by the way, you've created another over correction similar to the ammo debacle, and we all see what THAT turned into.

Are the numbers above 'scientific'? Not at all. However, most players couldn't care less about the science, they care about the gameplay, and perception has a lot to do with that. If the players perceive that there is no benefit to killing mobs because they're not going to get any gear to progress, they're going to go somewhere else. That means you lose sales in the cash shop, and when they start telling people who haven't bought the game that the 'grind' is ridiculous because Defiance now has the feel of a Korean MMO, those people aren't going to buy the game either.

Defiance already has a lot of issues that need to be corrected, and the perception of the game is suffering because of that. Now is probably not the best time to be playing with the loot tables when there are larger issues that haven't been resolved.

ten4
04-05-2013, 03:34 AM
There is no point bothering with heavy elites now, they are bullet sponges that give 1 scrip at most.

All I get is white shields and grenades too which is even more lame. Seriously, I just broke down 23 of the exact same shield just now.

Loot drops in world are terrible after patch, only way you get non-white gear is either lock boxes or co-ops.

I would count Arkfalls but they are not fun and terribly boring, also if you do not bring high DPS and get top score board you get nothing.

So I guess it's grind keys or spend lots of RL cash on boxes to get weapons that are not sold on any vendors? I expect they will nerf key drops next, infact I am counting on it.

p.s. I have loot boost, so indications are that is broken. Will this get fixed? And will I get reimbursed for all this wasted time of it?

Jeronan
04-05-2013, 03:39 AM
Very good post Valethar! Perfectly reflecting my experience as well.

I am starting to Reach the point that I no longer have any desire to log into the game. And that after just 3 days!

Jeronan
04-05-2013, 03:41 AM
So I guess it's grind keys or spend lots of RL cash on boxes to get weapons that are not sold on any vendors? I expect they will nerf key drops next, infact I am counting on it.

I am getting the feeling this might be the "true" reason for the loot nerf!
And they already did nerf key drops... as I have gotten very few key drops last night, compared to the amount I got the day before!

It seems TRION is more focussed on grabbing cash from players as quickly as possible, before the game tanks completely.

Samurai UK
04-05-2013, 03:43 AM
I'm not trying to invalidate anyones argument here, I highly doubt I've even put in 50% of the time many other users have, but saying that, my first mini boss post patch was one of the big mutant grenade launching dudes (the ones that look a little like rogue trooper on steds), and he dropped a blue shotgun for me which was actually a huge upgrade from what I already had.

Again, I'm not trying to say there definitely isn't an issue - but equally there's definitely a chance, however small, to acquire decent loot from mini bosses.

ten4
04-05-2013, 03:51 AM
I have almost done all PvE 'content'; missions and explores except Marin which has 2 bugged goals....

All left is to do 4 co-op goals which will put me at lvl 1k. After that, all there is to do is grind combat/weapons + their goals and farm but evidently they don't like that.

PookLove
04-05-2013, 03:56 AM
Yeah I'm sorry but this loot nerf is a little harsh, and Arkfalls still don't drop anything great.

Samurai UK
04-05-2013, 04:10 AM
Yeah I'm sorry but this loot nerf is a little harsh, and Arkfalls still don't drop anything great.

At the risk of sounding like a massive fanboy, my first Arkfall post patch dropped a blue shield. Not the type I want to use granted, but it was blue none the less, and previously I'd been getting nothing besides currency/keycodes.

Samurai UK
04-05-2013, 04:17 AM
balls - I posted in the wrong thread here!

TigrisMorte
04-05-2013, 03:42 PM
We found that loot was dropping far to often for players. Some found loop holes to run missions over and over again until they got their desired loot. We adjusted both these things to provide the proper scaling and leveling around loot.

I'll show you! I'm just going to play more and more and more until I get that loot any way. So there! :cool:

Wrex
04-05-2013, 03:46 PM
I have almost done all PvE 'content'; missions and explores except Marin which has 2 bugged goals....

All left is to do 4 co-op goals which will put me at lvl 1k. After that, all there is to do is grind combat/weapons + their goals and farm but evidently they don't like that.

Why are people playing the game like it's one big rat race? Take your time, enjoy whats on offer. Seems so silly to finish off content in an mmo as quickly as possible especially one that has just launched.

Paragons
04-05-2013, 04:01 PM
..welcome to an mmo and the responsibility they have to keep a balance.

Evermoore
04-05-2013, 04:07 PM
Agree. I guess I am odd I enjoy getting Loot?! Not now not much loot around. I have a veteran Character he is EGO 297 in all that time I have seen ZERO Assault Rifle's drop from normal mobs or mini bosses, I did get one as a quest reward. Actually other than flashbang grenades and lousy white shields, I have seen no loot. Rather boring!