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r1p
03-11-2015, 11:24 AM
Let me start by saying that I play on PS3/NA and so some of the things that I am posting may only apply to that platform and/or region. I would also like to state that I've only been playing the game for about 6 months, which makes me an "f2p" player, but I am aware that my perspective is at least a little skewed because I haven't been around for the entire evolution of the game. I'm mentioning this because there is a large portion of the current PS3 playing community that joined when the game became free-to-play and I believe it is significant when considering the cultural shift that has occurred with regards to the Warmaster event. It took me totally by surprise.

Until recently the WM event has been a waste of time to play on PS3/NA because you had a better chance of pulling OJ grenades out of a lockbox then beating it. In my first 5 months playing I was only present once when it was beaten and that was during the time it was nerfed. Also no matter how many times I went back the we hardly ever even broke the crystal armor much less got close to beating it. I do know that it was beaten during this time frame, but a lot of the time it was a huge undertaking getting enough skilled and equipped people into the same instance so the success rate was abysmal. There were a few reasons for the lack of success and I'm sure that one of them is the large influx of f2p players. The f2p business model is prone to attracting a large transient player population and most of them aren't go to spend as much time learning all of the mechanics of the game mostly because they don't have anything invested in the game itself. They also aren't going to take the time to read the forums or read the great guides that are available and they probably don't even know that defiancedata.com. Just flash back to the Solstice event when everyone was spamming the chat window looking for reindeer locations. How many times did you see "where?" or "huh?" when they were told to go use the reindeer map on defiance data? Another part of the problem is the locks and timer that were added before f2p. From what I've gathered this has turned off a lot of veterans from participating and it was compounded by new players destroying the locks because they are programmed from the start of the game to follow the instructions from their EGO. These 2 these things combined made it difficult to get experienced, well-equipped players into the event. Throw in people yelling insults at other players when telling not shoot the Viscera or not to shoot the locks and now griefers are added to the mix because people don't like being insulted. All of these things add up to a rag tag group of everyone doing their own thing and no chance of success.

Fast forward to the quasi-present. I went to a WM last week because I got invited by a friend that I won't say no to when he invites me to it. I went expecting another Failmaster and was shocked at how organized it was. Everyone was calm and organized and no one shot the Viscera or the locks. People had the proper equipment, dropped spikes when they were supposed to and focused on the right arm. Not everyone extracted when they should have but you can't have everything. At one point I stopped to watch because I had never been to a WM where everyone knew what to do and that's when something odd happened: we beat the Big Blue Monkey. To be honest I was shocked more by the fact that everyone played as 1 cohesive unit than by the fact that we beat it. I was also shocked because no one pulled out a BMG or a CF and at least a third of the group had an EGO below 4k. I got another invite the next night and we beat it 2 out of 4 tries and I wasn't disappointed with the matches that we lost. I ran it again last night and the groups that I was in went 3 for 3. The winning is great and all, but the amazing thing is the change in culture surrounding the event. Also, from what I can tell this has been building momentum since the beginning of the year with more and more players showing up prepared and understanding what needs done.

So, if you've gotten this far please be aware that you just lost 10 minutes of your life. And yeah, if you think this is long winded just think how the rest of my clan feels when I'm in clan chat ;) Seriously, what I really want to do is thank everyone who has been a part of this shift and has taken the time to educate and assist people when they want/need it. It helps make the game better and I'm sure you aren't thanked enough. I would also like to also thank the members of the Trion staff for the substantial influx of Golden Ring's during the Solstice event because they have been a big help in properly equipping players.

*Sidenote
I'm sure almost none of you were aware that I was boycotting the WM for a time. I enjoy a good boss fight especially where multiple players have to work together to overcome it. I also don't expect/want to win every time but I do want fair chance to beat it. With the culture being what it used to be and timer/lock mechanics compounding the issue it appeared that the only way I would ever have a chance to enjoy the WM would be via a private instance with players that I knew and who understood what to do. So, needless to say that when Trion announced that it would cost 3 Hunter Req tokens for private WM instances I was incensed. I couldn't believe that they were tying a revenue stream to something that I had already paid for. Also, from my perspective WM was broken without private instances so it felt like I was getting charged a recurring fee for the patch. Given these things I decided to boycott the event until something changed. The funny thing is that the one thing that I thought had no chance of changing was the culture. Change like this requires too many things to be done properly to have any effect especially in a semi-anonymous environment with a largely transient population such as this one. So, what this shift has done for me is eliminate the need for private instances and enabled me to enjoy WM again. Thanks everyone for giving me yet another reason to keep playing Defiance.

Burned In Effigy
03-11-2015, 11:39 AM
I'm in almost every wm event since I hooked up with Lonestar. If u want u can friend me . if one of your other friends aren't on. For me as well it'd the cohesiveness of the group that go in to kill the warmaster.
Every so often someone just bullrushes the inside to only bullrush the locks but I don't see it too often. Mostly when I get there there's already 20+ dedicated killers.

EvilAg3nt
03-11-2015, 01:51 PM
what weapons Exactly << are required to beat the WM??
all i ever see is dont shoot the locks and dont use this that the other weapons,very confusing.
so,what Should we Be Using?

r1p
03-11-2015, 02:06 PM
These 2 guides will give you a good idea on what to use:

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?160891-Simple-Warmaster-Guide

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?193684-Warmaster-Killing-Guide-by-Miss-Teri

But a quick synopsis would be a high DPS weapon to remove the crystal armor and a high Crit weapon on the exposed area after the armor is gone. A lot people use Pulsers & Tachmags for high DPS and a Wolfhound for Crit which is why the Golden Ring from the Solstice event is so popular. There are other weapons that fit these categories and the guides I listed should help you choose what to bring.

Bonehead
03-11-2015, 02:11 PM
*way tldr* Thanks everyone for giving me yet another reason to keep playing Defiance.

Glad it worked out for you.

Iceberg
03-11-2015, 02:39 PM
These 2 guides will give you a good idea on what to use:

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?160891-Simple-Warmaster-Guide

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?193684-Warmaster-Killing-Guide-by-Miss-Teri

But a quick synopsis would be a high DPS weapon to remove the crystal armor and a high Crit weapon on the exposed area after the armor is gone. A lot people use Pulsers & Tachmags for high DPS and a Wolfhound for Crit which is why the Golden Ring from the Solstice event is so popular. There are other weapons that fit these categories and the guides I listed should help you choose what to bring.

Pretty much this. I use the VOT tachmag pulsar smg with rad nano a bio nade and a fire wolfhound. Only thing I wish they would bring back is the total damage done at the end of the fight, even if its a second page on the post fight scoreboard.

Mrdr
03-11-2015, 02:55 PM
I was at a major arkfall last night where everyone was waiting for it to hit. About 20 of us were in our vehicles and decided to have a car show. We were able to organize ourselves enough to park side by side and have a car horn "wave" etc. Then we decided to break formation and start stunt driving. It was the most fun I've had so far in this game/world. Unfortunately I was totally disconnected as soon as it fell. I reconnected but by the time I got there it was too late. Everyone was inside and I was unable to get in as I didn't know anyone in there. As a sub-1100 ego player and reading these WM guides and such I was really excited to finally get in on a WM with an organized group. Unfortunately it didn't happen.

That said I wanted to thank everyone who was there for the fun car show. I had a blast and hope to do it again. For anyone wondering, I was the one in the hellfire Durango who started the donut session from the line up. I think everyone had fun with it. It was nice to experience this level of organization between non clan members and everyone having a good time. I look forward to the next one and hope more can join in the fun too. See you in the Bay Area. :)

Chris Robet
03-11-2015, 03:25 PM
I was one of the vets that gave up on the warmaster. Once free to play came out I tried for a few months to educate people on how best to beat him and one of the main things that discouraged Vets from the warmaster was the way people took our advice. I rarely was able to tell people different tactics for the warmaster without some other person yelling at me or using words that were very much against the CoC then telling these people to use boomers or some stupid thing like that. I am happy to see that he is going down daily now but for many other vets whose advice was ignored or had people turn hostile on them enough is enough and I doubt we will see a lot of Vets return to the warmaster due the abuse recieved.

konstantinov
03-11-2015, 03:28 PM
I was at a major arkfall last night where everyone was waiting for it to hit. About 20 of us were in our vehicles and decided to have a car show. We were able to organize ourselves enough to park side by side and have a car horn "wave" etc. Then we decided to break formation and start stunt driving. It was the most fun I've had so far in this game/world. Unfortunately I was totally disconnected as soon as it fell. I reconnected but by the time I got there it was too late. Everyone was inside and I was unable to get in as I didn't know anyone in there. As a sub-1100 ego player and reading these WM guides and such I was really excited to finally get in on a WM with an organized group. Unfortunately it didn't happen.

That said I wanted to thank everyone who was there for the fun car show. I had a blast and hope to do it again. For anyone wondering, I was the one in the hellfire Durango who started the donut session from the line up. I think everyone had fun with it. It was nice to experience this level of organization between non clan members and everyone having a good time. I look forward to the next one and hope more can join in the fun too. See you in the Bay Area. :)

So out of 20 of you guys no one had the DLC to drop the spikes? That's pretty impressive.

Mrdr
03-11-2015, 03:38 PM
So out of 20 of you guys no one had the DLC to drop the spikes? That's pretty impressive.

No everyone got there almost at the same time and was having fun. While having fun we were waiting on clan mates to show. None of mine showed though :( Then after everyone had their fun the spikes were dropped. As soon as it hit I was dc'd and couldn't get back in since I didn't know anyone inside :( Either way we had a good time before hand. It's a shame you weren't there. It was fun.

Tura Satana
03-11-2015, 05:18 PM
Great post, r1p. Like I said last night. I was pretty down on warmaster. A lot of us were. I had considered it a waste of time to do publicly. Well now that is long gone and yes, the private instances aren't even necessary anymore, and we need not have to waste out hunter req's on them. And it feels like a big EFF YOU to whoever in Trion decided to do us like that for something that should be included with arkbreaker.

And the next culture change- I hope I started last night when I purposely shot the locks to prove that it has virtually no effect on the warmaster's power or ability to be defeated, and all the crying and blaming others for losses can be put to bed. And a thank you to NP Loco for saying screw it and helping me crack the nut open. ; )

Chris Robet
03-11-2015, 05:25 PM
It's not good to break the locks and set the precedent for new people that it should be done. I do know and acknowledge that he does not lose any health or get an weaker from keeping them but it is very helpful to have that extra time to invite new people.

Tura Satana
03-11-2015, 06:15 PM
Everyone was there and ready. Which was why we killed the Viscera to open the vents and descend. In a circumstance where someone kills the Viscera prematurely while everyone says stop, he/she is likely gonna shoot the locks anyway. Maybe before the timer was added you could wait at the locks forever. But now we need people to understand that leaving the Viscera alive is what's important to getting everyone in, cuz it keeps the timer from starting.

The locks have become a scapegoat and a myth that need to be expelled. I can't tell you how many times I've heard in zone that shooting the locks makes him harder or unbeatable. Its all people seem to know or care about rather than the true NECESSARY rules of engagement for warmaster, such as using the proper weapons, extracting, the right spikes, etc. In other words - actually knowing what to do to beat him.

Mrdr
03-11-2015, 06:27 PM
Thanks for spreading the truth.

r1p
03-11-2015, 06:29 PM
Everyone was there and ready. Which was why we killed the Viscera to open the vents and descend. In a circumstance where someone kills the Viscera prematurely while everyone says stop, he/she is likely gonna shoot the locks anyway. Maybe before the timer was added you could wait at the locks forever. But now we need people to understand that leaving the Viscera alive is what's important to getting everyone in, cuz it keeps the timer from starting.

The locks have become a scapegoat and a myth that need to be expelled. I can't tell you how many times I've heard in zone that shooting the locks makes him harder or unbeatable. Its all people seem to know or care about rather than the true NECESSARY rules of engagement for warmaster, such as using the proper weapons, extracting, the right spikes, etc. In other words - actually knowing what to do to beat him.

This^^^^

Everyone in the instances that I was in last night just hung out with the lone Viscera until everyone that was invited finally showed up. In one instance we hung out for at least 10 minutes until we were ready to go down and fight the WM. It was actually kind of eerie. I can't say whether this is going to continue but as long as it does I agree with Tura that the locks are inconsequential.

konstantinov
03-11-2015, 06:29 PM
You guys should have seen what some low egos were saying about ego 5k players. They were saying some not so nice things. Jocco was there.


They didn't need 5k players to help kill the WM, just to drop the spikes LOL.

Iceberg
03-11-2015, 06:57 PM
Everyone was there and ready. Which was why we killed the Viscera to open the vents and descend. In a circumstance where someone kills the Viscera prematurely while everyone says stop, he/she is likely gonna shoot the locks anyway. Maybe before the timer was added you could wait at the locks forever. But now we need people to understand that leaving the Viscera alive is what's important to getting everyone in, cuz it keeps the timer from starting.

The locks have become a scapegoat and a myth that need to be expelled. I can't tell you how many times I've heard in zone that shooting the locks makes him harder or unbeatable. Its all people seem to know or care about rather than the true NECESSARY rules of engagement for warmaster, such as using the proper weapons, extracting, the right spikes, etc. In other words - actually knowing what to do to beat him.

I know on the PC NA server everyone waits for the locks timer to count down on the east side since we tend to target the back. Everyone is crouched and doesn't move when he is released, I think this is what causes it to not move for the first 30 seconds of the match allowing players to destroy his armor on his back.

If players attacked the locks and released him early he would move around and would cause the match to take a little longer than usual. Does not mean it will be a fail, all depends on who shows up for it.

SaikoTeek
03-11-2015, 07:21 PM
The culture has definitely changed for the better.

Tonight, I walked into a major with *6* people and we were able to keep back and get it up to 26 after sitting around on our thumbs and take it down. That never would have happened before in groups I've seen. There is, for the most part, order and direction now. I've seen 3 WM taken down in 3 days, compared to 2 months of fails.

konstantinov
03-12-2015, 10:02 AM
The culture has definitely changed for the better.

Tonight, I walked into a major with *6* people and we were able to keep back and get it up to 26 after sitting around on our thumbs and take it down. That never would have happened before in groups I've seen. There is, for the most part, order and direction now. I've seen 3 WM taken down in 3 days, compared to 2 months of fails.

We're 6 months+ past the f2p release so I would hope so.

Shrimkins
03-12-2015, 10:41 AM
I know on the PC NA server everyone waits for the locks timer to count down on the east side since we tend to target the back. Everyone is crouched and doesn't move when he is released, I think this is what causes it to not move for the first 30 seconds of the match allowing players to destroy his armor on his back.

If players attacked the locks and released him early he would move around and would cause the match to take a little longer than usual. Does not mean it will be a fail, all depends on who shows up for it.

I don't think I've ever seen anything besides targeting the back. With a good group we can break his armor and take a chunk of his health before he takes 1 step.

But yea, I do WM about every day. Win some, lose some. There is always at least 1 idiot, so it really just depends if we have enough players to overcome that.

As for correct weapons, this is still an issue on PC/NA. Still people using bmg's, infectors, lmg's and other stupid stuff.

Holy Bahamut3
03-12-2015, 11:11 AM
I was one of the vets that gave up on the warmaster. Once free to play came out I tried for a few months to educate people on how best to beat him and one of the main things that discouraged Vets from the warmaster was the way people took our advice. I rarely was able to tell people different tactics for the warmaster without some other person yelling at me or using words that were very much against the CoC then telling these people to use boomers or some stupid thing like that. I am happy to see that he is going down daily now but for many other vets whose advice was ignored or had people turn hostile on them enough is enough and I doubt we will see a lot of Vets return to the warmaster due the abuse recieved.

http://imgur.com/UpBDB5q.jpg

Iceberg
03-12-2015, 12:47 PM
http://imgur.com/UpBDB5q.jpg

Now that is a great meme.

Holy Bahamut3
03-12-2015, 03:06 PM
Now that is a great meme.

Yeah, I thought of it and couldn't stop laughing. That's when I knew I had to make it and share.

JOCCO5150
03-12-2015, 03:21 PM
what weapons Exactly << are required to beat the WM??
all i ever see is dont shoot the locks and dont use this that the other weapons,very confusing.
so,what Should we Be Using?
Bio ar, lmg, or smg to strip armor. And something with high crit after armor is gone. I use fates kiss for faze 1 and hf ar, or rad quickshot blaster for faze 2

Bonehead
03-12-2015, 03:23 PM
http://imgur.com/UpBDB5q.jpg

http://i1375.photobucket.com/albums/ag464/lenzdude/giphy2_zps0fcc3a88.gif

Burned In Effigy
03-12-2015, 04:25 PM
I use my oj PS SAW with a PS tach. Strips the paint off the room if you know what I mean. ;)p

Claydough
03-13-2015, 07:58 AM
Im pretty sure they've just nerfed the wm... Thats why its so easy to beat.

Im finding it hard to even find a match where we kill it with less than 3 minutes left...

r1p
03-13-2015, 10:27 AM
Im pretty sure they've just nerfed the wm... Thats why its so easy to beat.

Im finding it hard to even find a match where we kill it with less than 3 minutes left...

That was my initial opinion as well until I started inspecting players while inside waiting for the invitees to show. Pretty much everyone has been showing up at least adequately equipped. When 24+ educated and properly equipped players show up the WM will go down almost every time. To be honest I think you would only need 18 or so even with the same percentages of ego levels.

Mrdr
03-13-2015, 01:38 PM
I've been wanting to take one on since reading so many guides and threads on it but with no dlc (yet) and the dc's right when about to enter I haven't had the chance to try the tactics with an organized group yet. I was able to focus on the right arm (thanks to the guide posters for that) and was able to stay alive to see him get away (disorganized group using all sorts of weapons including bmgs, grenades, and some white flash-shooting rifle looking things). I did notice a massive increase in damage dealing using my pulser with fire nano and my wolverine with rad (wouldn't mind if those nanos were switched).

Tura Satana
03-13-2015, 04:38 PM
Restart before the major and you won't get disconnected.

Mrdr
03-13-2015, 04:54 PM
Good idea thanks!