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View Full Version : I don't understand the cheaters mentality



BoTheFallen
03-23-2015, 01:24 PM
This morning on xbox NA, I was in a match on freight yard and at some point an enemy player somehow got up into our spawn! He just camped out up there with a detonator and ammo spikes destroying us as we spawned. His score was 23-0, but I don't get why he needed to cheat for it. I've seen players get way better than that by just brawling it out. Immediately after the match, he sent me a message that said, " U mad? ".

Manmode
03-23-2015, 02:06 PM
This is a trash tactic, but I don't see how this is "cheating"

ShatterST4R
03-23-2015, 02:07 PM
Spawn trapping in any game is considered cheating?

MsDudette
03-23-2015, 02:18 PM
very poor taste indeed. surprised he finished with only 23 kills.

Belle Starr
03-23-2015, 02:19 PM
OMG, it should be! I guess that's why goods sportsmanship is dead and famous and infamous mean the same thing today! :mad:

By the way, being legally correct and ethically right are not the same thing either! Just because it isn't cheating because it doesn't break a particular game rule doesn't make it morally right! :(

ShatterST4R
03-23-2015, 02:22 PM
OMG, it should be! I guess that's why goods sportsmanship is dead and famous and infamous mean the same thing today! :mad:

By the way, being legally correct and ethically right are not the same thing either! Just because it isn't cheating because it doesn't break a particular game rule doesn't make it morally right! :(

So don't blame the players, blame the game. PvP in defiance is poorly designed.

Chris Robet
03-23-2015, 02:25 PM
The thing is they aren't good at the game so they resort to unfair tactics and then taunt others to make themselves feel better. They thrive on attention so if you just ignore them they go away.

Bentu
03-23-2015, 02:32 PM
Having pursuits tied to pvp doesn't help either, having enough kills to win the game is one thing but having to get 5000 to climb the ranks of Echelon is another.

Belle Starr
03-23-2015, 02:32 PM
So don't blame the players, blame the game. PvP in defiance is poorly designed.

I disagree! It's a player/person who has to decide if it is the right thing to do or not if it isn't against a particular rule in a game or RL! If u r willing to shoot someone in PVP who just spawned over and over again as they spawn is just plain wrong, but not against the rules! If u buy a company only to gut it and put hundreds of people out of work just to make a quick buck is also morally wrong (but on a much bigger scale), but it's legal! People make individual decisions to do right or wrong! :)

Chris Robet
03-23-2015, 02:33 PM
Having pursuits tied to pvp doesn't help either, having enough kills to win the game is one thing but having to get 5000 to climb the ranks of Echelon is another.

I thought it was only 1500?

Bentu
03-23-2015, 02:38 PM
I thought it was only 1500?

If it is it might as well be 5000 cause I'm not doing it. It's still a reason for people to spawn camp.

Belle Starr
03-23-2015, 02:41 PM
If it is it might as well be 5000 cause I'm not doing it. It's still a reason for people to spawn camp.

There is still no ethically good reason to spawn camp! :(

SUPREEM
03-23-2015, 02:44 PM
So don't blame the players, blame the game. PvP in defiance is poorly designed.

Exactly (peep sig)

KingNephilim
03-23-2015, 03:28 PM
This is a trash tactic, but I don't see how this is "cheating"

I guess you don't consider 'glitching' cheating either, yes? Getting atop the cliff to the enemy's spawn point is impossible without some form of platform glitching. You, as a player of the opposing team, are not even supposed to be up there... period.

I have seen this done on Ps3 NA a few times, though. I always dodge after the second or third time being spawn killed, find cover & send the player some nasty whispers about them having no skill & being useless. If nothing else, it allows my teammates time to respawn & destroy him will he's either trying to mute me or to reply.

...really hate those guys, though. And it's always the one's with terrible aim too, smh.

Manmode
03-23-2015, 03:34 PM
I guess you don't consider 'glitching' cheating either, yes? Getting atop the cliff to the enemy's spawn point is impossible without some form of platform glitching. You, as a player of the opposing team, are not even supposed to be up there... period.

I have seen this done on Ps3 NA a few times, though. I always dodge after the second or third time being spawn killed, find cover & send the player some nasty whispers about them having no skill & being useless. If nothing else, it allows my teammates time to respawn & destroy him will he's either trying to mute me or to reply.

...really hate those guys, though. And it's always the one's with terrible aim too, smh.

The way he described it, he said nothing about glitching (the OP), that would be a totally different scenario then what I understood from the OP's first post:-)

KingNephilim
03-23-2015, 03:48 PM
The way he described it, he said nothing about glitching (the OP), that would be a totally different scenario then what I understood from the OP's first post:-)

The OP did not mention glitching because he did not know that's what it was. However, please re-read the below excerpt from the OP's post.


at some point an enemy player somehow got up into our spawn!

There's only one way to get up to an enemy's spawn point at the freight yard. (Hint: ...you can't drive there.)

BoTheFallen
03-23-2015, 03:48 PM
The way he described it, he said nothing about glitching (the OP), that would be a totally different scenario then what I understood from the OP's first post:-)

I assumed everyone knows the freight yard map and that it isn't possible for the enemy to get up there- it's one of the reasons people will crouch at the edge and snipe. Anyway, it IS cheating.

BoTheFallen
03-23-2015, 04:01 PM
And it's always the one's with terrible aim too, smh

Yep, that's probably why he was laying down mines and detonating as we spawned.

Xaat Xuun
03-23-2015, 04:15 PM
it's not a glitch to get up to the opposing sides spawn, with practice, or after a couple attempts, it's quite easy

I tried it once, missed it, then saw, if I did a few more time it could be possible, but I never continued to try, it was a curiosity thing for me if possible, then just a few days ago, I saw it being done.
the players that were doing it were good enough they really didn't need to do such, it's just they had the opposing team locked down in the spawn, and they needed to get up there to speed it up, since no one was leaving the spawn area.

I don't agree that, that is a reason for such, behavior or tactic be allowed to happen, just saying the way the map is, it can be done. adding a eave to the edge might eliminate that.
for now since the ability can be done to reach there is just Taboo, and we know that many just seem to thrive being taboo, no matter what the outcome results

Chris Robet
03-23-2015, 04:19 PM
it's not a glitch to get up to the opposing sides spawn, with practice, or after a couple attempts, it's quite easy



What is a glitch though? How I've always defined a glitch is a malfunction or something that was unintended within any piece of technology. According to that definition it is a glitch. Everyone defines it their own way though.

Xaat Xuun
03-23-2015, 04:29 PM
What is a glitch though? How I've always defined a glitch is a malfunction or something that was unintended within any piece of technology. According to that definition it is a glitch. Everyone defines it their own way though.
I would agree with your description of a glitch, but in this case it's just not. I would more likely call using a Decoy to reach unreachable places a glitch though.
there is no design flaw, just bad environment design, (wait did I just do a Oxymoron) getting into the spawn area is more a exploit

KingNephilim
03-23-2015, 04:37 PM
it's not a glitch to get up to the opposing sides spawn, with practice, or after a couple attempts, it's quite easy.

"Glitching" is defined as an activity in which a person finds & exploits flaws or 'glitches' to achieve something that was not intended by game designers.
The senario that we're currently discussing, good sir, is indeed glitching. As well, someone once told me glitching cronkhite was "easy, after a couple attempts" ...strange coincidence, no?


the players that were doing it were good enough they really didn't need to do such, it's just they had the opposing team locked down in the spawn, and they needed to get up there to speed it up, since no one was leaving the spawn area.

Huuuuhhhhh? Speed what up exactly?
Unlike with deathmatch, increasing the amount of team kills doesn't "speed up" ending a match at the freight yard. Even if it did though, I don't see how that could make it a viable excuse.

Xaat Xuun
03-23-2015, 04:54 PM
"Glitching" is defined as an activity in which a person finds & exploits flaws or 'glitches' to achieve something that was not intended by game designers.
The senario that we're currently discussing, good sir, is indeed glitching. As well, someone once told me glitching cronkhite was "easy, after a couple attempts" ...strange coincidence, no?



Huuuuhhhhh? Speed what up exactly?
Unlike with deathmatch, increasing the amount of team kills doesn't "speed up" ending a match at the freight yard. Even if it did though, I don't see how that could make it a viable excuse.

guess it depends on a persons PoV, if I used your reason for glitching, then any one that has a better gaming machine then me, is glitching, and exploiting the fact that they can see me before I see them and better aiming due to better frame rates, they must be glitching/exploiting.

yes your correct , my wrong use of the phrase "Speed up", & that it's defending and attack would had sped things up, so they were just after kill count

ShatterST4R
03-23-2015, 05:17 PM
The true definition of a glitch is a malfunction or bug within a program that causes errors.

Spawn trapping is just poor PvP design, since there are only two rotatable spawns in TDM, and if you lock all capture points you can hang on the top roof or wherever and spawn snipe them on their cliff side. That is not the definition of a glitch, just a spawn camp.

Spawn camping is not considered a glitch at all in any video game of your team is good enough to hold the spawns down. In competitive play, no one would dare call this a glitch.

KingNephilim
03-23-2015, 05:18 PM
guess it depends on a persons PoV, if I used your reason for glitching, then any one that has a better gaming machine then me, is glitching, and exploiting the fact that they can see me before I see them and better aiming due to better frame rates, they must be glitching/exploiting.

Having a better gaming machine & a better frame rate is an exploit not intended by the devs? ...ok :/

KingNephilim
03-23-2015, 05:23 PM
The true definition of a glitch is a malfunction or bug within a program that causes errors.

Spawn trapping is just poor PvP design, since there are only two rotatable spawns in TDM, and if you lock all capture points you can hang on the top roof or wherever and spawn snipe them on their cliff side. That is not the definition of a glitch, just a spawn camp.

Spawn camping is not considered a glitch at all in any video game of your team is good enough to hold the spawns down. In competitive play, no one would dare call this a glitch.

Glitch = Noun // "Glitching" = Verb

As well, we're not talking about standing on the roof of the adjacent building. Spawn camping is considered unsportmanly, but it's not glitching. Going off map & thru the mountains to arrive at the enemy's spawn point, however, is.

Fallen_Aingeal
03-23-2015, 05:24 PM
I don't condone the tactic.

That said. It has been explained by the dev team on several occasions that this is not a glitch or an exploit. It is using the game mechanics to ones advantage. Anybody "can" do it with enough practice.

It has been happening since the beginning of the game. Been used and complained about for nearly 2 years. There isn't a "fix" in the works because there is nothing broken.

If you want to talk about glitches, there are others that are of more importance to be addressed.

ShatterST4R
03-23-2015, 05:25 PM
Glitch = Noun // "Glitching" = Verb

As well, we're not talking about standing on the roof of the adjacent building. Spawn camping is considered unsportmanly, but it's not glitching. Going off map & thru the mountains to arrive at the enemy's spawn point, however, is.

Eh, if your team is good enough to establish a spawn camp, I don't see why its unsportsman like. It is just a bad design because the spawn points are too predictable.

Xaat Xuun
03-23-2015, 05:55 PM
Going off map & thru the mountains to arrive at the enemy's spawn point, however, is.
okay, we're definitely talking about 2 different ways to reaching the spawn area, what your saying here, I would call a glitch and exploit

the way I've tried and seen done, is not

makes sense to me now why you're calling it a Glitch

Duke_Shambles
03-24-2015, 01:39 AM
It may not be a glitch or exploit, but it's most definitely griefing. I don't understand why some people don't get that score doesn't necessarily equal skill. I normally will just leave a match where this is going on. I know how to beat someone doing this but I don't want to play with a team that sucks bad enough to allow this to happen anyway. This tactic never works if I start a match from the beginning, I'll never allow a triple cap from the other team.

What irritates me much more than this is the decoy glitching out of the map and then sniping into the spawn from an unreachable place. That gets old fast.

reshen
03-24-2015, 02:33 AM
how do u even get up there.. even with blur i dont see u making that jump

MagnusRune Daltus
03-24-2015, 03:03 AM
how do u even get up there.. even with blur i dont see u making that jump

either with decoy as this thread says, or a very lucky ATV boost, clip a thing, get flung in air and jump out.

Atticus Batman
03-24-2015, 03:13 AM
either with decoy as this thread says, or a very lucky ATV boost, clip a thing, get flung in air and jump out.

Yep pretty much that. Cheat by using a glitch, or find a way to jump your vehicle up there.

Either way it could be fixed. Trion just needs to remove any decoyable holes in their invisible walls. Then place a tall one way invisible wall/door at the cliff off of the spawn zones.

However I am not a dev. So I have no clue how easy any of that would be or how long it would take. Or if it would need to pass certification before being put on the live server.