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View Full Version : This is the wrong way to push sales.



Konzeptionz
04-15-2015, 04:30 AM
Nobody likes paying per entry, or per revive. Why not instead, push sales for Patron Pass, and reduce the Hunter requisition cost by 100% for Patron Pass users.

I bought the game, all the DLC, Patron Pass. I don't want to pay another fee on top of that to play a free to play game.

andy88
04-15-2015, 04:53 AM
in the other hand its not "free to play" , we paid DLC's and we paid arkforge and score boosting to roll weapons and grind up EGO's

this patch seems to be only profitable for those few at high EGO+, and its advertising and ninja artifice has insulted the feeling of major group Player , so thats why it sucked

duction
04-15-2015, 05:08 AM
You new players are getting a taste of how this game works lol, wait until they drop a patch again that renders more then half of your items obsolete and crap. That's happened a few times in the 2 years this game has been live.

Mrdr
04-15-2015, 05:15 AM
Nobody likes paying per entry, or per revive. Why not instead, push sales for Patron Pass, and reduce the Hunter requisition cost by 100% for Patron Pass users.

I bought the game, all the DLC, Patron Pass. I don't want to pay another fee on top of that to play a free to play game.

So the only way to revive is to buy something? We can't earn hunter reqs in any way, for free?

duction
04-15-2015, 05:20 AM
So the only way to revive is to buy something? We can't earn hunter reqs in any way, for free?

Don't you get a free one Dailey from patron pass?

Konzeptionz
04-15-2015, 05:28 AM
So the only way to revive is to buy something? We can't earn hunter reqs in any way, for free?

I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying for the people who are paying a monthly fee to play the game, they shouldn't have another fee on top of that to play the game. People who don't spend any money on this game, should still be able to get their HR credits/tokens.

Gaasden
04-15-2015, 05:32 AM
The only thing i would compain about is that u are acutally forced to do expeditions cause of the fraction contracts. It was hard for me to get any ego precision mods, now its just impossible. Why do this? Same with getting trusted status with TN and SE, i was working hard to get those and im quite close but now...

On the other hand i find it exciting that you have to be careful not to die, u have to have strategy, certain loadout and good group. It makes it more hardcoree and demanding.

nathanpbutler
04-15-2015, 06:04 AM
I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying for the people who are paying a monthly fee to play the game, they shouldn't have another fee on top of that to play the game. People who don't spend any money on this game, should still be able to get their HR credits/tokens.

Patron Pass people get what they always have since they were introduced: something else on top of what others regularly get. However, that doesn't mean "unlimited" anything. They get an HR in each daily box, rather than just the three in the weekly box. That's 10 total instead of 3.

Those who don't pay still get 3 per week.

duction
04-15-2015, 06:07 AM
Do they stack? How many can you hold?

reshen
04-15-2015, 06:07 AM
IN OTHER HAND...THEY GREEDY ****
.. all they care is money money and more money.. fking idiot.. i adore this game .. everythibg you have to.pay

Fuzzy
04-15-2015, 06:08 AM
Do they stack? How many can you hold?

No cap as answered in a Q&A

Alastar
04-15-2015, 06:11 AM
Is anyone even actually remotely surprised? I mean cmoooooon :rolleyes:

duction
04-15-2015, 06:20 AM
I just bought 6 months patron pass, zero f**ks given.

Altras
04-15-2015, 06:29 AM
Accidentally clicked add to cart where continue used to be. 400 bits wasted.

nathanpbutler
04-15-2015, 06:33 AM
Accidentally clicked add to cart where continue used to be. 400 bits wasted.

Wait . . . adding to cart from one of those menus PURCHASES the item instead of adding it to the cart and waiting for you to complete the transaction?

Alastar
04-15-2015, 07:05 AM
Accidentally clicked add to cart where continue used to be. 400 bits wasted.

If that's the case I might suffocate from laughter. ;)

roguestatus
04-15-2015, 07:11 AM
I'll have to pass on these so called expeditions Trion, 6 hours of downtime for a pay 2 complete coop experience that you threw together from old content that by the way is still broken. By broken I'm talking invisible enemies that will down you immediately on revive. I'm also talking gold skitterlings jumping through walls sscrewing you on rewards and pursuits. Oh and thanks for quick store launch that almost got me downed and the inability to finish an expedition without critting 5-10 times.

Bonehead
04-15-2015, 07:53 AM
I just bought 6 months patron pass, zero f**ks given.

If there were a "like" button I would have used it for this post.

bigbri2k5
04-15-2015, 08:02 AM
IN OTHER HAND...THEY GREEDY ****
.. all they care is money money and more money.. fking idiot.. i adore this game .. everythibg you have to.pay

Woah woah woah. Instead of giving everything away for free, a business is trying to make money to cover their costs and make some profit that can go into future development? No way!

SUPREEM
04-15-2015, 08:20 AM
Nobody likes paying per entry, or per revive. Why not instead, push sales for Patron Pass, and reduce the Hunter requisition cost by 100% for Patron Pass users.

I bought the game, all the DLC, Patron Pass. I don't want to pay another fee on top of that to play a free to play game.

Defiance went f2p, so we had to see this coming right? Its not as p2w as other titles in the genre. Ever played DC universe? You can't even advance your toon unless you pay money lol. I don't think trion will ever get that brutal on our pockets.

Edit: yes you have to spend money to get Max ego, but $50 will take you much further in this game compared to other titles. #IMO

Bonehead
04-15-2015, 08:26 AM
IN OTHER HAND...THEY GREEDY ****
.. all they care is money money and more money.. fking idiot.. i adore this game .. everythibg you have to.pay

http://transcend2011.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/greed-is-good_poster.jpg

Alastar
04-15-2015, 08:42 AM
I don't think many are foolish enough to believe the devs don't need money. I say many because I am quite sure there's at least a few out there. Now my perspective on the situation is that they are as usual handling their marketing in a counterproductive fashion. Its always been my stance you should invite players to spend money rather than pushing them to spend it. Just for example the great ark forge nerf. Instead of say giving us more options than we could reasonably spend ark forge on so we buy more to keep up they nerf it into the dust to say hey go buy it instead to maintain just a small selection. Each update gets more and more pushy as opposed to more and more inviting. My purse strings only get tighter when you take that approach. Now I will also give credit where its due. I've long believed the patron pass was absolutely worthless. Never purchased one never wanted one. Now we get bonus reqs and even consumable cap increases. I'd given up on a consumable cap increase and must say I was beyond pleasantly surprised when I saw that. They didn't nerf the current cap. They aren't charging an obscene amount of money for a chance at a cap increase. They just gave us the increase for patron pass to sweeten the pot. I like that and want to see them do more things like it. I do wish the increase was a bit more but hey its still awesome. Any who. Rambled enough and I hope I've made my point. Again thanks for the consumable/ammo cap increase ;)

crazyged
04-15-2015, 08:48 AM
Problem is, not all economies are equal.

50 bucks may not be a big deal in the States and Europe, but it equates to over 500 bucks where I'm from.

I couldn't afford a patron pass, even if I wanted to buy one.

The sad thing is, it looks like it's almost mandatory to have one in order to have the vaguest chance of keeping up with everybody.

octobersnow
04-15-2015, 09:15 AM
here is a thought .. games that have 10 times more content or better and are far more stable charge $15 a month to play.
why not just charge a dollar a month to play? after all "free to play" never is, its bait and switch, they always mean "pay to play" they could increase it perhaps if the game had similar value in he future. we are being asked to pay a huge amount for very little here .. IMHO if it is possible to spend more then $5 a month in defiance to get everything possible its a rip off. as far as value for a game defiance is a very poor choice.

Wentelteefje
04-15-2015, 09:22 AM
yeah agree either they release another dlc for it.. or just ad 1 drop of the expedition point todaiily rewards..... if they realy want to sell bitts..they should just make them tradable.... making the non paying fasarm items for the payin wouyld realy booost their sales if they where tradable .....

roguestatus
04-15-2015, 09:58 AM
What I find mostly irritating is I'm not a f2p player and my game is full of store spam and a quick launch to the store, but no broken co op maps stay broken and I'm sorry but I will no longer support this game financially after seeing this alcatraz pay 2 win garbage. Yes I said pay 2 win because in order to beat the high levels you are going to have to spend money on revives to get the high level rewards because the enemies stomp you no matter how skilled or geared you are and in most scenarios whole groups will go down between 5-10 times at a boss after level 6 not to mention if your console freezes you automatically forfeit a token.

Mrdr
04-15-2015, 03:26 PM
Those who don't pay still get 3 per week.
Wait...so it's not pay to play? is this some way of saying that I get 3 reqs per week for free? Awesome! Thanks!


:)

Mrdr
04-15-2015, 03:43 PM
What I find mostly irritating is I'm not a f2p player and my game is full of store spam and a quick launch to the store, but no broken co op maps stay broken and I'm sorry but I will no longer support this game financially after seeing this alcatraz pay 2 win garbage. Yes I said pay 2 win because in order to beat the high levels you are going to have to spend money on revives to get the high level rewards because the enemies stomp you no matter how skilled or geared you are and in most scenarios whole groups will go down between 5-10 times at a boss after level 6 not to mention if your console freezes you automatically forfeit a token.
Or you can not spend money on revives and earn the reqs for free (3 per week) and while you're waiting to earn them you practice to get better at the game. I know I know you want the extra lives and ability to beat the game right now though. While you're at it you should just ask to make Alcatraz permanent TL1 to ensure everyone can beat it without having to work for it.

I don't have the gear or the skill to play Alcatraz yet but I plan on trying it even though I know I'm going to waste the reqs and I'm going to die quickly. Why would anyone do this knowingly/willingly? Because I have fun shooting things in the game with others even if I lose. I'm there with friends and shooting stuff. Only thing missing is the beer and pizza...but that can quickly be rectified.

I haven't tried Alcatraz yet because when is anything stable during the first week of a release...for any game or software? I'm waiting for the bugs to get ironed out before I knowingly waste my reqs.

Thanks for helping to debug it for everyone btw. :)

bigbri2k5
04-15-2015, 05:21 PM
I don't have the gear or the skill to play Alcatraz yet but I plan on trying it even though I know I'm going to waste the reqs and I'm going to die quickly. Why would anyone do this knowingly/willingly? Because I have fun shooting things in the game with others even if I lose. I'm there with friends and shooting stuff. Only thing missing is the beer and pizza...but that can quickly be rectified.

Gear will be much less of an issue than you think. More important will be paying attention to the advice people on the forums are giving out, and playing smartly. A group of 3 max players and a lowbie could easily do the first few rounds giving you a shot at at least some of the new loot.

TigrisMorte
04-15-2015, 05:59 PM
Trion, release content for sale. I'll buy it. The only reason companies love the freemium paywall, oh pardon me, arcade mode is that it allows them to coast on already produced content. Get dweebs to pay without having to make new content. Yeah, I hear you out there, "but they'll have money so they'll make more!" Not how incentives work, sorry. Does it mean they'll never make content again? No. But it lessens the motivation, unlike content for sale. Same as the failed subscription model, which proves the incentives rule.

Want my money? Don't expect it from rent. I buy stuff.

Mrdr
04-15-2015, 06:05 PM
Gear will be much less of an issue than you think. More important will be paying attention to the advice people on the forums are giving out, and playing smartly. A group of 3 max players and a lowbie could easily do the first few rounds giving you a shot at at least some of the new loot.

Good to know. Thank you.

crasher
04-15-2015, 06:50 PM
Woah woah woah. Instead of giving everything away for free, a business is trying to make money to cover their costs and make some profit that can go into future development? No way!
I prefer honest to goodness subscriptions.
I'd still rather pay a subscription than get nickle/dime'd to death for micro-transaction ad pop-ups all the freakin time.

We always knew that the game ultimately ran on money, and I accepted that. But damn, the in-your-face aspect is the annoying part of the issue.

roguestatus
04-15-2015, 07:08 PM
Please enlighten me how to practice to beat a threat 20 invisible hulker that is running through adreno? Or maybe overcharged mini gunners that shoot you through anything you hide behind trying to restore your shields then stands on you after you've been downed and won't move till you die and won't take any damage? Please let me in on these unknown strategies. I walk into these expeditions at tier 28 with a group I know well we play smart and conservatively. I don't post just bs opinion what I do know for fact is 3 free requisitions a week at our level means about an hour of play time a week and a good chance at not finishing a boss fight due to the high level of difficulty just walking in and no way to adjust it to one that doesn't feel like you are fist fighting the terminator. You can get through these but now you need to buy revives just to finish or you just walk away empty handed after fighting for a hour with nothing but an extraction fee and that's if you even get to finish. Most times you get to the boss crit out and start over at the beginning hoping they didn't take a token from you, rinse, repeat 4 more times then everyone walks away frustrated and angry.

demolishdreams
04-15-2015, 07:13 PM
Nobody likes paying per entry, or per revive. Why not instead, push sales for Patron Pass, and reduce the Hunter requisition cost by 100% for Patron Pass users.

I bought the game, all the DLC, Patron Pass. I don't want to pay another fee on top of that to play a free to play game.

Its always been about greed with Trion, that goes for all their games too.

konstantinov
04-15-2015, 07:15 PM
IN OTHER HAND...THEY GREEDY ****
.. all they care is money money and more money.. fking idiot.. i adore this game .. everythibg you have to.pay

^
A wordsmith in action.




Priceless

roguestatus
04-15-2015, 07:26 PM
I agree with crasher somewhat, only thing is for that to work they would have to fix the numerous bugs and issues that have plagued us for most of this games life and we all know the track record on that.

RonDiaz
04-15-2015, 07:30 PM
This game is one of the best F2P games out there. Fire up a little Star Trek Online and see what a P2W game with no content is really like. This game is very accessible, as a casual gamer I love it, lots to do, decent value. I'm 110 hour in this game and not even close to experiencing it all. They added some new things to make Patron more worthwhile, I've thrown in for Patron from time to time but in the past I didn't feel it was a tremendous value. The new additions really help though. I will agree in the past some of the bugs have been painful (that ongoing rubber banding issue some months back was the worst), I haven't had any major trouble recently though.

roguestatus
04-15-2015, 08:04 PM
It is a nice game I agree and I hope you enjoy it for a long time, for high ego players that have experienced all there is to offer here alcatraz is something a lot of us have been eagerly awaiting: high difficulty coops that push the limits with great rewards to match. The problem is the tokens and paid revives here. The cyber rigs and more importantly the buffs and de buffs they bring are now extremely important to remain competitive in this game in pve and pvp. Low ego players will find the challenge in alcatraz to be way less brutal than high ego players as we are going in with the best the game has to offer as far as gear goes and getting rofl stomped by enemies that would make you not even want to go to an arkfall if you knew they were there and I love it but the paid revives just make me want to avoid it. I'm not against paying but not on that level this would have been better suited as a subscription with unlimited attempts than a oh you got downed pay your token to get up or you wasted your time playing.

crasher
04-15-2015, 09:43 PM
I agree with crasher somewhat, only thing is for that to work they would have to fix the numerous bugs and issues that have plagued us for most of this games life and we all know the track record on that.

This, A lot.

Cyripax NeoPrime
04-15-2015, 10:54 PM
Don't you get a free one Dailey from patron pass?

Yep. 1 per day, and 3 for weekly gift. So 10 per week for pass owners. Not only that but theyre cheap enough. Remember when you were a kid and dumped 20$ worth of quarters in a single sitting at the arcade? This is ENDGAME content. For HIGH ego players for the mostpart.

PTR47
04-15-2015, 11:02 PM
I really fell like generosity killed the cat.

I've been playing since beta. No. I played beta, and then got the game a few months after it went live. And I bought the season pass and said "HELL YA". I was very happy spending that money... and then realized that I got so very, very little for doing it. Come in buyer's remorse. Getting the game in its original state, plus the season's pass should have me with great content and playability, but the difference between the season's pass and the regular game is totally miniscule for the money.

I didn't think it was at the time, but it's absolutely miniscule now at any rate.

WM should have needed the DLC. Arenas should need DLCs. Season questlines? Sure, make me give you a few bones. Alcatraz, make it a DLC. They're being generous in giving it to everybody, and then ****ing everybody because they need money. It just doesn't make logistical sense. I was READY TO PAY. Then TRION gave me the access I wanted. Now what am I going to give TRION? Nothing. I'm a farmer. I've survived for 2 years with 70 inventory slots. I make do and think that buying your way in is kind of cheating, and that doesn't make me feel good.

I bought some inventory slots. I said I was going to give TRION some money this time around, but I have nothing I honestly want to spend it on. Alkatraz has come out and I've bought 30 inventory slots so now I have a bit more than 100. I'm not really super excited about that (it's definitely not a "HELL YA" purchase), but I wanted to give them some money. Trion needs to think about how they're monetizing things.

Cyripax NeoPrime
04-15-2015, 11:12 PM
Its always been about greed with Trion, that goes for all their games too.

Imagine that! A bisuness trying to make money....... and on a free to play game. Something has to pay to keep the servers going and employees paychecks working on defiance. When a game goes f2p, youll notice lots of focus shifted towards new ways to make revenue to keep said game alive. I can think of many ways (some i cant even mention here) that trion has gone above and beyond to compensate me and keep me happy and spending bits. Even through all the bugs and crippling glitchiness. Theyve been rather exceptional to me and made up for the crap on many occasions, but then again.... Im always polite when i message a CM, support, or a dev. I think you catch more flies with honey.

Anyone whos been here long enough and is STILL here 2 years later, knows what to expect. And those who have stuck through it all, i have a feeling they are like me. Defiance is one of thier favorite games, and theyve realized the good outweighs the bad. If you love the game enough, youll either become more forgiving, or get pissed when things pop up and get over them eventually.

Trions track record isnt going to change. Though locarb is a good addition and is a good step. Things can always be worse. Lets not forget that.

SCAVENGER1
04-15-2015, 11:59 PM
i havent seen the invisible npc but so far i have been able to get to the end of 2 of the expeditions solo but when i get to the end. is where it goes to poo.. i can get threw the hellbugs or raiders and with some strategies i can kill them all. but when i get to the very end, those bioman with over charge syphoon miniguns , they are just way to OP even with a smg syphoon i cant even keep up with health against them let alone the other 6 minigunners and grenadiers that come after you and the rest of there gang. plus once your down they will not let up on you at all. they will keep shooting you till you get extracted . so why waste recks to revive your self when they will drop you before you even get off the floor? and i have been in full groups with the same ending. oh plus i have seen the bioman minigunner that his health never drops past a certain point no matter what you use.

also Fix the grenade refill that lay on the ground when you are using bio-grenades please !!

crasher
04-16-2015, 07:00 AM
i havent seen the invisible npc but so far i have been able to get to the end of 2 of the expeditions solo but when i get to the end. is where it goes to poo.. i can get threw the hellbugs or raiders and with some strategies i can kill them all. but when i get to the very end, those bioman with over charge syphoon miniguns , they are just way to OP even with a smg syphoon i cant even keep up with health against them let alone the other 6 minigunners and grenadiers that come after you and the rest of there gang. plus once your down they will not let up on you at all. they will keep shooting you till you get extracted . so why waste recks to revive your self when they will drop you before you even get off the floor? and i have been in full groups with the same ending. oh plus i have seen the bioman minigunner that his health never drops past a certain point no matter what you use.

also Fix the grenade refill that lay on the ground when you are using bio-grenades please !!

We used to have issues with random 'invisible shotgunner' NPCs wandering around places like Serenity Acadamy and outside the entrance to Cronkhite bunker.
They were reasonably rare, but lethal, and some of them would wander quite far, over time, from their original area.
You'd be wandering around, nothing threatening nearby, and your health would drop 60% to 80% with no sound of gunfire, but the screen would show the red 'wounded' effect. The second or 3rd shot would frequently kill you if you didn't get away in time. The issue here was that there was usually no defense. You could spin around firing a Pulsar or BMG, and most often the counterattack never managed to score enough (or any) damage on the badguy to kill him and get him to stop.

We felt he was was close to you during the attack because you could duck behind one side or the other of cover and a moment or two later the invisible badguy would have time to come around the corner in pursuit and resume the attack. Get to the other side of the wall and he'd catch up again. It was fast enough that it had to be closely following rather than some NPC at a distance.

It took several months and several patches to finally stomp them out, so if it's a similar prob: Either they still remember what they had to do to track down the bugged code, or that code-guy is long gone and they have to get a new guy with an *H-1B* to solve the issue.

Good luck, it was an annoying issue when you didn't have to deal with expending resources to fight him. I can believe it's going to be a bigger issue now in Alcatraz.

Elgand
04-16-2015, 01:19 PM
So I have lurked a few times since I quit Defiance well over a year ago. When the game was B2P I sincerely enjoyed it and I didn't stop playing until hitting 4700 ego and really running out of things to do(Last 300 ego was a ridiculous grind).

Now it requires cash transactions for endgame content? Seems like I jumped ship at the correct time and should hold on to my pleasant memories. Why is it so hard for developers to mimic the Guild Wars B2P model? Or even other F2P models. Gating content behind any form of pay wall (SWTOR with limiting PvP/LFG for free players, Defiance with this crap) is a horrible tactic.