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Lithova
04-21-2015, 09:13 PM
So what do you guys think of Trion's new content Alcatraz?

The new additions that come with Alcatraz (Expeditions) and the cost to play Expeditions (Hunter Reqs) and the rewards being the new cyber rigs and cyber chips.

I'm not a fan of the way Trion decided to use a draconian way to implement the access of Expeditions along with the forced access only to chip pullers from the bit store. I'm especially annoyed that some of the pursuit daily's now require Expeditions. Given that Hunter Reqs are limited to the 3 HR you're allocated per week. NO Chip pullers btw. And the piddly one extra HR you're granted if you're patron player. Now I understand many have differing opinions regarding all this. This is mine.

I sincerely am against the way Trion has implemented the way players can access the new content. Especially when the new content is extremely buggy an unstable. This is troublesome as many of the current bugs (stability) NPC pathing/generation (as you know sometimes NPC's disappear or spawn inside walls or walk /hover through walls going outside of the map etc). These were known issues and you can see the various posts regarding these issues in the PTS forums from various testers. Not to mention the new bugs introduced too, unable to pick up grenades, unable to access Shadow war from the menu, and whole host of connection issues.

I'm not saying bringing new content and trying to generate some funds is a bad thng. But don't do it at the expense of players experiences and don't force people one route to complete pursuits with flawed content or content that requires real money to play (should no one have any HR's remaining you'll have to purchase some, or ignore any pursuits until the next time your allotted some HR's).

I'm especially worried at the direction Trion is heading with these changes, I can easily afford to purchase various items from the bit store, however when I see content that limits user access and makes the game unstable and more buggy I'm concerned, concerned with quality and access. It's one thing to charge for content (DLC) buts its a whole other beast to charge per access with whatever they what to call it this month ( Hunter Reqs). I'm sure that other content released will required pay to play like a slot machine and be titled some other form of currency requirement to access said new content. The Freemium model on which Defiance is based on will denigrate to countless micro transactions for any content. I don't know about you guys but I stopped paying per play @ arcades awhile ago.

My experience with Alcatraz is negative at this moment, the rewards are not rewarding...the cost is concerning and implementation is poor, the execution is unstable and buggy. When it does work, its not exactly a new experience as these maps appear to be rehashes of current Co-Op maps and the bosses are the same NPC's we've seen before ( I recall that we were told by Trion dev's that we would see new bosses and the current ones we face are only placeholders). The only rewarding features are the cyber rigs and I'm afraid to say it but its probably cheaper and less time consuming to simply purchase a few cyber rigs boxes and be done with it.

Anyways, right now the pro's and cons, in my experience are more negative..thus the cons of Alcatraz far outweigh the pro's of playing it. I'm sure many others feel differently and enjoyed their experienced as I'm sure many others to some extent have had similar experiences as mine. For now I'll be withholding my wallet an any further time on Alcatraz/Expeditions. (on a plus side I did find more ways to get outside of the unfinished Alcatraz map to explore.)

Burned In Effigy
04-21-2015, 10:19 PM
So what do you guys think of Trion's new content Alcatraz?

The new additions that come with Alcatraz (Expeditions) and the cost to play Expeditions (Hunter Reqs) and the rewards being the new cyber rigs and cyber chips.

I'm not a fan of the way Trion decided to use a draconian way to implement the access of Expeditions along with the forced access only to chip pullers from the bit store. I'm especially annoyed that some of the pursuit daily's now require Expeditions. Given that Hunter Reqs are limited to the 3 HR you're allocated per week. NO Chip pullers btw. And the piddly one extra HR you're granted if you're patron player. Now I understand many have differing opinions regarding all this. This is mine.

I sincerely am against the way Trion has implemented the way players can access the new content. Especially when the new content is extremely buggy an unstable. This is troublesome as many of the current bugs (stability) NPC pathing/generation (as you know sometimes NPC's disappear or spawn inside walls or walk /hover through walls going outside of the map etc). These were known issues and you can see the various posts regarding these issues in the PTS forums from various testers. Not to mention the new bugs introduced too, unable to pick up grenades, unable to access Shadow war from the menu, and whole host of connection issues.

I'm not saying bringing new content and trying to generate some funds is a bad thng. But don't do it at the expense of players experiences and don't force people one route to complete pursuits with flawed content or content that requires real money to play (should no one have any HR's remaining you'll have to purchase some, or ignore any pursuits until the next time your allotted some HR's).

I'm especially worried at the direction Trion is heading with these changes, I can easily afford to purchase various items from the bit store, however when I see content that limits user access and makes the game unstable and more buggy I'm concerned, concerned with quality and access. It's one thing to charge for content (DLC) buts its a whole other beast to charge per access with whatever they what to call it this month ( Hunter Reqs). I'm sure that other content released will required pay to play like a slot machine and be titled some other form of currency requirement to access said new content. The Freemium model on which Defiance is based on will denigrate to countless micro transactions for any content. I don't know about you guys but I stopped paying per play @ arcades awhile ago.

My experience with Alcatraz is negative at this moment, the rewards are not rewarding...the cost is concerning and implementation is poor, the execution is unstable and buggy. When it does work, its not exactly a new experience as these maps appear to be rehashes of current Co-Op maps and the bosses are the same NPC's we've seen before ( I recall that we were told by Trion dev's that we would see new bosses and the current ones we face are only placeholders). The only rewarding features are the cyber rigs and I'm afraid to say it but its probably cheaper and less time consuming to simply purchase a few cyber rigs boxes and be done with it.

Anyways, right now the pro's and cons, in my experience are more negative..thus the cons of Alcatraz far outweigh the pro's of playing it. I'm sure many others feel differently and enjoyed their experienced as I'm sure many others to some extent have had similar experiences as mine. For now I'll be withholding my wallet an any further time on Alcatraz/Expeditions. (on a plus side I did find more ways to get outside of the unfinished Alcatraz map to explore.)

This. The 100$ I set aside for Alcatraz is gone gone gone.

Tyler Sunder
04-21-2015, 10:58 PM
Honestly I feel Trion worlds CEO Scott Hartsman lied to all of us when he said,
"Quite honestly, we'd rather make less money on people and have them feel better about the experience. So essentially, any time we put something up for sale it needs to be something that A) we don't think a person's ever going to regret buying and [B) we want] it to be something they genuinely feel good having purchased," "Because we'd rather have people associate [microtransactions] with 'Hey, you guys did good. Here's five bucks. Oh cool. I got a great thing I like.' And that's really the guiding philosophy around all of it. We could be making more money if we did the rest of that bullsh**, but that's really not who we want to be."
As is now many microtransactions are literally being stolen and it genuinely does not feel good.

Alastar
04-21-2015, 11:08 PM
The Trion CEO said WHAT?? :confused: oh man I choked and laughed when I read that! He should take a look in the defiance bit store :rolleyes:

Adage
04-22-2015, 12:18 AM
The Trion CEO said WHAT?? :confused: oh man I choked and laughed when I read that! He should take a look in the defiance bit store :rolleyes:

I have to agree with you there, most of the time when I buy something from the bit store I feel like I got ripped off.

PTR47
04-22-2015, 12:21 AM
I tried my first today. I joined quick match and was immediately booted from the group. I have no problem with this, as long as I didn't waste an HR (don't worry, guys who booted me). I was confused about the timer for about five minutes, but decided to check quick match again and I saw the option to quit or try again. So I join another. Cool, no HR lost. I get put into a level 28 and am stuck in the floor for about 2 minutes. I finally come unglued and run down the stairs into a sea of red triangles who proceeded to demolish me before they spawn. Apparently I am alone. I lay there until the guys decide to spawn, get up, kill most of them, and am knocked out again by a tanker.

TL;DR: I didn't make it down the first ramp.

It's absolutely TERRIBLE content. I hope to hell this isn't the future, because I have absolutely no desire to go back.

Octo
04-22-2015, 01:15 AM
Well well well.


I'm not a fan of the way Trion decided to use a draconian way to implement the access of Expeditions along with the forced access only to chip pullers from the bit store.
Nothing really draconian. You have 3HR/week, so you can play without buying anything.
When you're out of HR, just stop playing, and try to do better next time. Challenge is great, no ? I mean, for a videogame.
Same thing with the chip pullers, you don't really need them, right ?



I sincerely am against the way Trion has implemented the way players can access the new content. Especially when the new content is extremely buggy an unstable.
It's a new content. Almost every new content is buggy. Diablo III, Assassin's Creed, The greeeaaaat masterchief collection, Gears of war, Elder Scrolls, Fallout 3... Bugs, glitches, everywhere !
At least we can do some frog-jumps now :D



My experience with Alcatraz is negative at this moment, the rewards are not rewarding...the cost is concerning and implementation is poor, the execution is unstable and buggy. When it does work, its not exactly a new experience as these maps appear to be rehashes of current Co-Op maps and the bosses are the same NPC's we've seen before ( I recall that we were told by Trion dev's that we would see new bosses and the current ones we face are only placeholders). The only rewarding features are the cyber rigs and I'm afraid to say it but its probably cheaper and less time consuming to simply purchase a few cyber rigs boxes and be done with it.

"the rewards are not rewarding". Welcome to Defiance :P
But I have to agree with you on the maps, bosses,NPC's... That's exactly what I felt the first time I ran an expedition on PTS. Nothing new, nothing really exciting.
But yeah I know, we just have to wait the next DLC (not free, of course) to eventually get something really new.


I'm especially annoyed that some of the pursuit daily's now require Expeditions.

And I agree with this too.
I mean, it was a bit boring to run the same coops maps every day/week to get cores (or Rep to buy crates and get poo everytime), but now we just can't complete every dailies/weeklies with only 3HR/week. So, it's bad.

- Oh, and yeah I agree with the bit store story.
Pfeh, this store is just a shame.

BarrySciFi
04-22-2015, 01:17 AM
I agree with everything in your post. Also. I hope that all of the season 3 content will not be tied to "expeditions", but I wouldn't count on it.

Claydough
04-22-2015, 01:26 AM
1 req per week and i'd agree, but the sheer time investment of expeditions means youd be struggling (as i am) to use all 3 in a week.

I think free to play expeditions is more than fair.

I would also love to know the revenue of a fixed dlc option vs the pay per play type of charging

Duke_Shambles
04-22-2015, 01:41 AM
The sheer time investment required is why they should not be daily contracts. The last one I did took me 6 hours to complete. I do not have 6 hours every day to do this.

Also, spending an HR a day to do your dailies is BS if you don't have a patron pass. I gotta say, it kinda feels like extortion.

heartbreak_courier
04-22-2015, 01:43 AM
I'm definitely not happy with the expeditions, at least not with how they were monetized. Any other way besides per entry, and I think I would've been fine (even as DLC). Everyone I know who's tried them out has lost HRs, myself included; they're just too unstable. I really hope Trion reconsiders this whole thing, because seeing how they want to tie in private warmasters, contracts, and possibly Season 3 content to these HRs worries me quite a bit.

Graywolfe
04-22-2015, 09:13 AM
The main issue I have with them is, like many have said before, that they are using them as dallies. I can handle them being the occasional weekly but even that would be pushing it. So they either need to start handing out a HR on the daily reward box or remove the expos from the contracts altogether.

Now my limited experience with the expos was fun, I did not get disconnected just left when I finally died and need a HR to revive. While I had fun fighting my way through the rewards were absolutely pathetic. Now I know the good stuff is suppose to show up at higher tiers and latter rounds but I would like to at least start seeing some blues. So far everything I have gotten is green. Hoping to go back with a good group and maybe fine some better stuff.

r1p
04-22-2015, 09:42 AM
In February when the heated discussions on whether 1 HR per week was enough I remember reading a post by one of the devs that stated that it would be more than enough because of the amount of time it took to complete an expedition. So the question I am asking myself is this: were they planning on making expedition related contracts before they decided to capitulate and give everyone 3 HRs per week? Can anyone on who participates on PTS confirm whether there were daily contracts tied to expeditions before the the 3 HR announcement? If they were not then their inclusion is probably a way to nerf the free HR increase and could explain some of the delay in the release due to creating and testing the new contracts. If they were included before the announcement then it is just a simple way to induce players to buy patron passes.

I know this is all speculation and it's based on a post by a dev that can't seem to find now so take it all with a grain of salt. If someone can track down the post I would really appreciate though, because for the life of me, I can't find it.

**EDIT**
I don't see how it would make a difference but I should qualify my statements by saying that I do have a Patron Pass. The funny thing is that I didn't get it for the expedition benefits but rather the ones it provides in PvE. I like having the extra ammo at majors especially when I use a Tachmag. I also like the XP boosts it provides me when I am using my low Ego alt. And while the extra ammo, consumables, and HRs are a nice benefit in expeditions they don't help me as much because it can be difficult to set aside the amount of time necessary to make deep expedition runs. But yeah, love the extra ammo.

pebcak
04-22-2015, 09:55 AM
The contracts were there even before the announcemt of the 3. I dont like the fact that i miss out on these extra dailys. It also sucks for the people that are not capable of doing a tier 20 expo becasue they miss out on 3 core a week. where before the patch they could get it if they could find a 5ker to carry them in the expets. I know my clan does this becasue most of the 5.9k and 6k ego people in the clan can solo the experts.

Tyler Sunder
04-22-2015, 10:09 AM
I agree that 3 is more than enough per week because if you take your time its very fun and those 3 could last you a good while. I don't mind purchasing bits for them either except when you purchase them you expect it to function. For me its been like a broken slot machine and have lost close to half of all hrs ive pumped into it.

r1p
04-22-2015, 10:29 AM
The contracts were there even before the announcemt of the 3. I dont like the fact that i miss out on these extra dailys. It also sucks for the people that are not capable of doing a tier 20 expo becasue they miss out on 3 core a week. where before the patch they could get it if they could find a 5ker to carry them in the expets. I know my clan does this becasue most of the 5.9k and 6k ego people in the clan can solo the experts.

Well at least now I know. I just can't seem to reconcile the statement with the implementation though. If 1 is enough then how can they justify daily contracts tied to expeditions. I could understand if it were just on weeklies, but on dailies it not only requires people to have a patron pass but also the time actually do them all. I have to hand it to them it was pretty clever because not only were they able to nerf the HR increase they also nerfed the acquisition of vendor lockboxes. Since players will being doing less dailies it will make them even more dependent on the rewards dropped in expeditions. I know I may being making this sound more nefarious than they may have intended but the results will still be the same either way.

sixsais
04-23-2015, 02:44 AM
I paid for the game and all 5 dlc's and just because it isn't a Patron's Pass I get the same number of reqs as a f2p player. It seems unfair to me.

It'd be great if, when grouped up before entering an expedition, only the group leader had to pay a req in order to start a new one. That way people would be able to rotate and play more expeditions weekly (as long as people didn't take advantage of this and never paid theirs).

Psycroww
04-23-2015, 05:03 AM
You of all people should of seen this coming. I mean you even told me not to get onto the hype, the same washed up map with a few waves of different mobs. The rewards in this game will never be rewarding because it is a pure rng system. It is literally like playing the lottery. You do the same thing so many times that when you finally get what you want, that is equivalent to no more doing whatever it is you were grinding. You got what you wanted, and that's it. It's a more advanced version of experts. The only reason to continually grind the same maps over and over again are the rigs, complete your set, you are done.

When unstable content gets released, it is almost always a negative experience. Defiance is known for when they release something, something else breaks and when they create new content, they let it go on pts, fix a few things we report, but then give it a release to meet a deadline. My opinion is never expect something good when it is unstable and released to meet a deadline and not properly fixed. For the amount of downtime each update takes, it should be perfect.

I understand mistakes get made, but it happens every single time. There is no reason to give this a free pass. It's been getting all this hype and stuff, but in reality it doesn't deserve it.

BadAxe4U
04-23-2015, 08:28 AM
This new content is too broke for me. It is taking my HR and then crashing as I spend time and HR trying to complete the missions. My time is better spent doing something else. I'll wait until the next patch to see if it works. All the new advertising in the game probably effected it's stability too. I am being kicked out of the game more now. Don't anyone hold their breath waiting for me to buy bits for HR.

konstantinov
04-23-2015, 08:38 AM
I bought bit store rig boxes instead of wasting money on HR's and countless hours in expeditions. It was by far the best choice.

Shrimkins
04-23-2015, 10:26 AM
My expedition experience has been pretty good so far. I did DC a couple of times but was able to get back in ok.

Probably my only big gripe has to do with the daily contracts requiring hunter reqs. That is beyond dumb.

Besides that I'd like to see an inventory just for rigs and chips. The functionality of the UI for these is absolute garbage. I spend way too much time just clicking in random places.

ryu5010
04-23-2015, 10:58 AM
It seems obvious to me that the developers have two options to fix this problem. Option 1 get rid of contracts that require expeditions or option 2 give the players a hunter requisition each day and reward patron pass holders in some other way.

Lioslath
04-23-2015, 11:22 AM
Bought the game when it was new ($60 Cdn), bought all download content, was a patron for quite some time. I have played the game through all the changes, and enjoyed it immensely. But not this new Expedition where they have monetized it to the point of making it non-playable.

Ya done screwed up on this one Trion. Make it right.

Shrimkins
04-23-2015, 11:35 AM
Bought the game when it was new ($60 Cdn), bought all download content, was a patron for quite some time. I have played the game through all the changes, and enjoyed it immensely. But not this new Expedition where they have monetized it to the point of making it non-playable.

Ya done screwed up on this one Trion. Make it right.

See idk though. If I was to get something like 3 HR a day then I wouldn't have time to do anything except just run expeditions non stop.

The only problem here is the contracts. Now players have to possibly pay to complete content that they already previously paid for. That is pretty messed up.