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Legit
05-21-2015, 07:02 PM
Seriously? I remember waiting for this game, months before it's release, I dropped $150 to preorder a special edition and played the **** out of it. I left due to real life matters around the first DLC, and just a few days ago came back. Scaling enemies? Awesome, if I want to COOP I have to deal with incredibly over powered bullet sponges that can just kill me in a few seconds. This game is even more P2W than it was before. I'll spend a few bucks here and there, but $20 for an outfit? Then we have "Arkforge", it takes hundreds of this **** just to upgrade my gun, and I get about 3 per event... or I could spend $20 on 500. Sounds fishy as hell to me. So in all the time I've been gone, I've came to this conclusion: You made the game P2W, the number of players online at any given time is incredibly smaller than what they once were, and you've fixed literally nothing that was wrong with the game in the first place.

The ship has already sunk. I'll stick around to play till the end, but damn, you all really messed up a game that had some potential.

P.S. Don't even get me started on needing a "Patron Pass" to talk to live support. I had some issues and I'm still waiting on a reply to my ticket. Guess my $150+ wasn't enough to get help with your buggy game?
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To the player-base:

Has anyone else noticed the P2W path that this game is taking? Or do you simply invest massive amounts of hours just to upgrade your gun, so you can kill those super buffed enemies? Since lockboxes still drop **** and all (how the hell has that not changed? I'd appreciate at least one legendary from a T4 that isn't an infector).

Gaige12
05-21-2015, 07:06 PM
Welcome to Defiance II.

Mister Derpenhowser
05-21-2015, 07:14 PM
I wouldn't really class this game as p2w.. bitstore crates still rely on the terribly unbalanced rng in the game.

Legit
05-21-2015, 07:33 PM
I wouldn't really class this game as p2w.. bitstore crates still rely on the terribly unbalanced rng in the game.

I was mainly referring to the Arkforge a player can buy to give them top quality guns, which will give them a nice advantage over any other player grinding out Arkforge, or a player who relies on the terrible rng you mentioned to get better guns.

In the end, a player buying Arkforge will outperform any player who isn't in events, and because of that they get better loot. This is where I get the P2W thought.

Mister Derpenhowser
05-21-2015, 07:41 PM
Well people willing to pay the silly prices for AF in the store deserve something for that price tag, but laziness isn't p2w either. Its easy to farm AF if you know how. Want cheap AF? Go grab a new sealed copy of the game from ebay or amazon, cost you roughly the same as 500bits but you'll get a ton of stuff including a 30day pp and 1000AF. Should be enough to get you back on your feet.

Another thing to remember is, on your road to 5k almost everything should be a throwaway item, replaced by whatever else you pick. Except for the gems obviously.

PithHelmetIrath
05-21-2015, 08:49 PM
I wouldn't really class this game as p2w.. bitstore crates still rely on the terribly unbalanced rng in the game.

P2G? Pay-to-gamble.. on skewed RNG..

Escyos
05-21-2015, 09:54 PM
I once left a sandwich out for a year and a half and when I came back and ate the sandwich, it tasted very bad.

Why shouldn't my sandwich have stayed the same?

(Apply this law to the OP)

kcl
05-21-2015, 10:31 PM
I was mainly referring to the Arkforge a player can buy to give them top quality guns, which will give them a nice advantage over any other player grinding out Arkforge, or a player who relies on the terrible rng you mentioned to get better guns.

In the end, a player buying Arkforge will outperform any player who isn't in events, and because of that they get better loot. This is where I get the P2W thought.

A player paying for arkforge will outperform player who doesn't play the game. Same as the player who plays the game will outperform the player who doesn't play the game. You might be onto something here.
( ͡ ͜ʖ͡)

Legit
05-21-2015, 11:40 PM
I once left a sandwich out for a year and a half and when I came back and ate the sandwich, it tasted very bad.

Why shouldn't my sandwich have stayed the same?

(Apply this law to the OP)

A sandwich can't even be compared to an MMO.


A player paying for arkforge will outperform player who doesn't play the game. Same as the player who plays the game will outperform the player who doesn't play the game. You might be onto something here.
( ͡ ͜ʖ͡)

You obviously just didn't read what I said. Let me put it in simpler terms for you. If I pay for Arkforge and you grind Arkforge, I will immediately have a much higher damage output than you. I never even said anything about someone not playing the game.

JOCCO5150
05-21-2015, 11:48 PM
A sandwich can't even be compared to an MMO.



You obviously just didn't read what I said. Let me put it in simpler terms for you. If I pay for Arkforge and you grind Arkforge, I will immediately have a much higher damage output than you. I never even said anything about someone not playing the game.

This is not true. All the best weapons are already legendary when you get them, so AF or no AF no difference.

Legit
05-21-2015, 11:53 PM
This is not true. All the best weapons are already legendary when you get them, so AF or no AF no difference.

Oh really? So it doesn't take 25 Arkforge to kick its ego up by 100 points to keep the gun relevant?

JOCCO5150
05-21-2015, 11:58 PM
Oh really? So it doesn't take 25 Arkforge to kick its ego up by 100 points to keep the gun relevant?

If someone can't earn 25 AF every 100 ego, then they need to learn how to play the game. Or you can buy AF for scrip from someone that farms AF.

crasher
05-22-2015, 12:05 AM
This is not true. All the best weapons are already legendary when you get them, so AF or no AF no difference.
Well, think of it this way:

I can buy a batch of AF today and have several upgraded weapons 10 minutes later. Depending on what I spend, I can end up with a buncha decent OJs at the end of that 10 minutes if I had a few promising purples..

You play the F2P game, spend no $$ and buy no upgrades.
With the Goddess of RNG being fickle, and hateful at the best of times, you might end up with 12 OJ Magnums, an OJ Rebel D, and and great memories of hoping that you got something good out of a lockbox bought with the maximum of 50 keys.

Buying AF makes it faster to work on getting better stuffs that one didn't earn in game.
It's a little like the guys who were harping on the forums about how they had little time to play the game and level up, so they just wanted the option to buy an E-4K or E-5K level for their 'toon with all the stuff like racing challenges already done...

Just my opinion, feel free to discuss/disagree.

JOCCO5150
05-22-2015, 12:20 AM
Well, think of it this way:

I can buy a batch of AF today and have several upgraded weapons 10 minutes later. Depending on what I spend, I can end up with a buncha decent OJs at the end of that 10 minutes if I had a few promising purples..

You play the F2P game, spend no $$ and buy no upgrades.
With the Goddess of RNG being fickle, and hateful at the best of times, you might end up with 12 OJ Magnums, an OJ Rebel D, and and great memories of hoping that you got something good out of a lockbox bought with the maximum of 50 keys.

Buying AF makes it faster to work on getting better stuffs that one didn't earn in game.
It's a little like the guys who were harping on the forums about how they had little time to play the game and level up, so they just wanted the option to buy an E-4K or E-5K level for their 'toon with all the stuff like racing challenges already done...

Just my opinion, feel free to discuss/disagree.


The buying e4k or e5k toon would be pretty lame, that would be pay to win. But buying AF is still gambling with the rng, unless you are upgrading something with set rolls.


I've upgraded many weapons to oj, and rarely use any of them. I use named weapons mostly.

kcl
05-22-2015, 12:33 AM
A sandwich can't even be compared to an MMO.



You obviously just didn't read what I said. Let me put it in simpler terms for you. If I pay for Arkforge and you grind Arkforge, I will immediately have a much higher damage output than you. I never even said anything about someone not playing the game.

Yeah I did but let me put this in simpler words for you. Someone doesn't have time to grind the AF because he's busy earning money - he buys AF. If you don't like that idea you can invest your time and get to the same place without spending money. Seems like a fair deal to me.
If you don't like both ideas and would like to get **** for free then it's not the game for you.

Midnight
05-22-2015, 12:59 AM
The OP might want to do some serious investigating into his inventory....if you quit playing that long you likely have a wealth of pre-patch weaponry, some of which could be quite valuable to collectors...you can get yourself some scrip and pay people who Forge farm to upgrade your weapons...

Bentu
05-22-2015, 02:20 AM
OP all of your points have been raised discussed and ignored over the last 18 months.

Nicc0
05-22-2015, 04:39 AM
Seriously? I remember waiting for this game, months before it's release, I dropped $150 to preorder a special edition and played the **** out of it. I left due to real life matters around the first DLC, and just a few days ago came back. Scaling enemies? Awesome, if I want to COOP I have to deal with incredibly over powered bullet sponges that can just kill me in a few seconds. This game is even more P2W than it was before. I'll spend a few bucks here and there, but $20 for an outfit? Then we have "Arkforge", it takes hundreds of this **** just to upgrade my gun, and I get about 3 per event... or I could spend $20 on 500. Sounds fishy as hell to me. So in all the time I've been gone, I've came to this conclusion: You made the game P2W, the number of players online at any given time is incredibly smaller than what they once were, and you've fixed literally nothing that was wrong with the game in the first place.

The ship has already sunk. I'll stick around to play till the end, but damn, you all really messed up a game that had some potential.

P.S. Don't even get me started on needing a "Patron Pass" to talk to live support. I had some issues and I'm still waiting on a reply to my ticket. Guess my $150+ wasn't enough to get help with your buggy game?
------

To the player-base:

Has anyone else noticed the P2W path that this game is taking? Or do you simply invest massive amounts of hours just to upgrade your gun, so you can kill those super buffed enemies? Since lockboxes still drop **** and all (how the hell has that not changed? I'd appreciate at least one legendary from a T4 that isn't an infector).
You should ask what happened to Trion,the need for money after the mistakes done in these years causes the developers to shift all theyr games on the P2W side without no efforts on the quality of the services,so Defiance has fallen and lost all the potential shown in the first days and now people like us that really loved the game because of his wonderful world have no choice other than start looking for another game,I have found Project Genom as a spiritual successor of games like Tabula Rasa.

ratpie
05-22-2015, 04:49 AM
it takes about a week to get 500 af, if your not trying to get it.

Escyos
05-22-2015, 07:12 AM
A sandwich can't even be compared to an MMO.

I shouldn't have to explain this.

You've been gone a long time, you shouldn't expect things to stay the same. That's crazy talk.

Festival
05-22-2015, 07:35 AM
Welcome to Defiance II.

...Electric Boogaloo.

Gaige12
05-22-2015, 07:52 AM
...Electric Boogaloo.

LOL I have a loadout I named Electric Boogaloo I like to use on the DM guys. It's an Empousa to get them dancing and a bio CF to mow them down.

Smokey Black
05-22-2015, 08:00 AM
Arkforge can be a pain if you don't have any and need to level up guns.

But once you get to ego 5,000 it is very simple to run expert co-ops and easily accumulate piles of it.

Combine that with the ark tech revolution dlc and you can buy arkforge with chimera rep not sure if they still give you 1,000 with the dlc anymore. I keep my chimera rep up so if I ever need a few hundred AF all I have to do is go to the vender.

Fallen_Aingeal
05-22-2015, 10:21 AM
I still don't understand the P2W concept with this game...

What are you winning? OP, you stated that better performance grants better loot. This is just plain false. Score doesn't matter in this game, except for 2 instances{volge and afflicted instances.} Placement on the scoreboard doesn't matter in this game. Rewards are completely rng. Proof of this? When I place first in a DM major or WM and receive a grape and clan mate comes in at last second and score less than 6k{5k of that granted for "participation"} and they get an oj, that is rng.

Sounds to me like you're upset that after not playing for over a year, you're upset that you are now playing at a noob lvl. This is the way of progressive mmo's. If you stop playing for any significant amount of time, you're going to have to "catch up".

The only way to defeat this, is to play a non progressive game...

SirServed
05-22-2015, 11:19 AM
Also, just because a player has access to a large amount of Arkforge doesn't mean they have anything worth using it on. Players run around with offensively challenged weapons all the time and they're well within their rights to do so, I just don't group with them (especially when I run Expeditions).

Ray8888
05-22-2015, 01:07 PM
If OP was a preF2P player wouldn't he have gotten free AF?

Tex_Arcana
05-22-2015, 01:51 PM
Someone needs to realise how easy it is to earn AF in game. Or hang up their ego implant.
Nuff said.

JOCCO5150
05-22-2015, 01:56 PM
Someone needs to realise how easy it is to earn AF in game. Or hang up their ego implant.
Nuff said.

That's the truth

Legit
05-22-2015, 02:46 PM
The greatest part about this thread is all the posts telling me to learn 2 play. It's quite a bit different to play a game that had major potential, then coming back to find it in it's current state. 90% can't even speak on that subject because you probably never even played the game before it's F2P state. I do not know how to farm arkforge, I've missed every update. Even if I did, why would I want to spend the little time that I have to play online games on grinding. If you can't see how buying Arkforge can even slightly help someone out, then either your one of those players who always has a higher number in a game to feel superior, you're trolling, or you're daft. Honestly, it isn't at all a hard concept to grasp... sure, you're not paying for straight out EGO levels, but you are buying a material that can and does giving you a significant boost over others.

You're all thinking that I'm some entitled casual who feels like I should be getting **** for free, and I knew making this post that there was no way I could win... This is what's wrong with games today. They slowly started adding these small ways to pay so you can have bigger numbers and feel better than others. It's a ****ing gear-quest, grind all day to get those high numbers OR pay some cash to skip ahead...
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TL;DR
Criticizing my opinion, telling me I don't know how to play, or any other posts that are not on topic don't even need to be posted here. If you don't feel the same way as I do, then move along. If you continue to feel the need to post unproductive comments in this topic I will not reply to you, so you'll just be wasting your own time.

Niner82
05-22-2015, 03:08 PM
The greatest part about this thread is all the posts telling me to learn 2 play. It's quite a bit different to play a game that had major potential, then coming back to find it in it's current state. 90% can't even speak on that subject because you probably never even played the game before it's F2P state. I do not know how to farm arkforge, I've missed every update. Even if I did, why would I want to spend the little time that I have to play online games on grinding. If you can't see how buying Arkforge can even slightly help someone out, then either your one of those players who always has a higher number in a game to feel superior, you're trolling, or you're daft. Honestly, it isn't at all a hard concept to grasp... sure, you're not paying for straight out EGO levels, but you are buying a material that can and does giving you a significant boost over others.

You're all thinking that I'm some entitled casual who feels like I should be getting **** for free, and I knew making this post that there was no way I could win... This is what's wrong with games today. They slowly started adding these small ways to pay so you can have bigger numbers and feel better than others. It's a ****ing gear-quest, grind all day to get those high numbers OR pay some cash to skip ahead...
------
TL;DR
Criticizing my opinion, telling me I don't know how to play, or any other posts that are not on topic don't even need to be posted here. If you don't feel the same way as I do, then move along. If you continue to feel the need to post unproductive comments in this topic I will not reply to you, so you'll just be wasting your own time.
Want some truth. The fact of the matter is Trion is too worried about making money, instead of fixing the problems that already exist. The game is getting so many bugs and glitches with every patch introduced anymore, that it is at times no longer fun to play. A lot of people have moved on to Destiny and so forth. The only time it is really any fun, is when there is a holiday event happening. So no you don't need to learn how to play again, you just learn to suck it up and play it the way it is anymore.

Legit
05-22-2015, 03:29 PM
Want some truth. The fact of the matter is Trion is too worried about making money, instead of fixing the problems that already exist. The game is getting so many bugs and glitches with every patch introduced anymore, that it is at times no longer fun to play. A lot of people have moved on to Destiny and so forth. The only time it is really any fun, is when there is a holiday event happening. So no you don't need to learn how to play again, you just learn to suck it up and play it the way it is anymore.

I feel like you get what I'm saying, for the most part. I'm fine where I am in the game though, I'm generally viewing it from a new player standpoint. If I had never played Defi, and started yesterday, I wouldn't stick around for too long... and just a few of the things I mentioned in my OP are reasons. More than anything, Defi needs more players to keep the game going.

Niner82
05-22-2015, 03:52 PM
I feel like you get what I'm saying, for the most part. I'm fine where I am in the game though, I'm generally viewing it from a new player standpoint. If I had never played Defi, and started yesterday, I wouldn't stick around for too long... and just a few of the things I mentioned in my OP are reasons. More than anything, Defi needs more players to keep the game going.
Ya it has its strong suits, but I find my self only playing every now and then anymore. Not because I hate the game, but the direction it's going in. People just want it to work the way it's intended for the most part. No it will never be perfect, but it used to be more finely tuned in its past state. People are tired of being ignored when they state a problem, or ask a question. It's like they don't care what we think anymore. But enough with that, ya some of us just let the game roll til it dies one day.

Tex_Arcana
05-22-2015, 07:30 PM
I am not impressed with the update's implementation.
It has made the daily grind less accessible.
But any complaints about weapon leveling vs AF availability are lost on me.
AF is still easily earned via the usual methods in game.
I avoided OP because they are obviously having ragemode issues.

DeMoNofDEATH
05-22-2015, 07:34 PM
I wouldn't really class this game as p2w.. bitstore crates still rely on the terribly unbalanced rng in the game.

pay to lose your hard earned cash

Bentu
05-23-2015, 01:16 AM
People are tired of being ignored when they state a problem, or ask a question. It's like they don't care what we think anymore. But enough with that, ya some of us just let the game roll til it dies one day.

Where have I heard that before, round about the time the new CMs started.

Reverted to type.

Atticus Batman
05-23-2015, 01:36 AM
pay to lose your hard earned cash

I have decent gear and have never bought AF or farmed it. You just need to realize that you can get by with any weapon that drops. once you are ego 3k or so start using mainly puprles that you find. Do not rarity upgrade until you are over ego 5k. Do not ego upgrade purples or Oj that are below ego 5k or so, unlsess you like wasting ArkForge.

People may argue with that. But my EGO 1500 does fine with blues and the occasional purples that I pick up and replace with other pickups regularly. Score does not matter unless you are farming scrip or AF because the higher the score the more you get. Once you get a cerrtain score in sieges (and maybe incurssions? don't remember) then you automatically get the best lockbox reward that event offers. Can't remember the scores but iirc getting over 60k should definitely get you that highest tier lockbox. I can do that easily with my 1500 ego and her crappy green/blue and occassional purple guns and her blue/purple shields.

My 5600 uses some oranges and some purples. When the threat level was added, I miss a mass inventory cleaning. I was ego 3800 so anything under 3600 got sold, vendored or scrapped. Then I played with vendor guns or decent drops for the most part until ego 5k. Now I use what I want because I am at such a high level that raising his EGO level is slow going due to the crappy pursuits I have to deal with such as time trials. (Yes I know some cruise through them, but I don't.) A friend suggested I adjust my stick sensity (lower it) So I will try that, but hate racing so do not care about Golding them. I can settle for silver. And my PvP has been done for quite awhile, except some social wich I also am not going to bother with.

I have even seen people come first with nothing but white and green gear. Yes higher rarity gear can give you an advantage however you can do fine with low/mid rarity gear. So do not worry too much about keeping most of your gear until around ego 5k or whatever ego you are when you reach XP cap and have all the easy pursuits down and therefor your leveling has slowed to a crawl. That is when you should start focusing on what you want to keep and level with you. The exception of course being one or two items that you think are perfect and almost impossible to replace, those ones go ahead and hold onto and slowly level if you really like them that much.

I would suggest cleaning out your inventory. Most of your really old guns will be 25% or so below your EGO and pre-prepatch. Anotherwords weapons got 2 major overhauls since the game has been out. There are collecters that will buy those weapons for a lot of gear or if they have the AF willingly ego upgrade some of the stuff you want to keep, in exchange for some of that old gear. Or you can vendor it.

CaptainObvious
05-23-2015, 02:00 AM
I agree with OP, I'd be in same state if I missed every update. I was "lucky" enough to keep playing while game was updated and could stick up with all "improvments" and changes.

Also about AF you don't need it since the only weapons used or traded (for most) are events named weapons and crimefighter for the noobs.

Tex_Arcana
05-23-2015, 11:47 AM
I agree with OP, I'd be in same state if I missed every update. I was "lucky" enough to keep playing while game was updated and could stick up with all "improvments" and changes.

Also about AF you don't need it since the only weapons used or traded (for most) are events named weapons and crimefighter for the noobs.
Ummmm. You definitely need AF even with Event weapons.
Examples are: upgrading a good event weapon if it/you are below ego cap, or rerolling mastery.
I had to reroll Fate's Kiss 12 times to get damage mastery for example...

Ray8888
05-23-2015, 06:34 PM
posts that are not on topic don't even need to be posted here. If you don't feel the same way as I do, then move along. If you continue to feel the need to post unproductive comments in this topic I will not reply to you, so you'll just be wasting your own time.

Youre gonna hate it here.

RAGEFIGHTER
05-23-2015, 09:22 PM
no trion do not wanna earn money the thing they did with defiant few weapons aproves it i was spending alot bits to farm cfs cuz was looking for special one now i say no way ill give any bits for this even iff i reach al requieriments for buy lock boxe now there is not so big chance to get cf it may be shtako gangbuster or shtako bloodhound its now total waste of reputation and keycodes

MadDogTremor
05-23-2015, 09:42 PM
"Since Day One" Veteran here....

And here is my opinion on this subject:

The game will sink before the TV show does. And with repeated 1 year hiatuses, the TV show most likely won't make it past this, it's third season.

So, play it while it lasts...cause friends, even the rats are jumping off this sinking ship.