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Verfall
04-05-2013, 01:28 PM
Maybe at higher ego levels?
Or through a patch?

I mean Trion wants people to spend real money - say on lockboxes.
But why should I buy a lockbox if my level 400 weapon is already the best?

I think the lacking weapon progression will make many people leave after they beat the story or at least if the hit 5000 ego.

RAYNE Mois
04-05-2013, 01:56 PM
I'll second that. It's highly disappointing that I've been using the same shield since literally the beginning of the game and my weapons all do just as much at 600 as they do during the tutorial.

Dagbiker
04-05-2013, 01:58 PM
Its the 5th day. Trion is not going to announce the spefics 5 days after their mmo just released. Give them at least a week.
But they have said that new content will be tied to the show.

AmishWarMachine
04-05-2013, 01:59 PM
Maybe it's an overly simplistic view of it... but, to me, weapon mods == weapon progression.

GhostTLT
04-05-2013, 02:00 PM
hello 500th topic on this matter! Nice to see you again!

This isn't Borderlands....sorry if you wanted it to be. Better loot comes with higher rarity and not through base damage but in modifications, rarer mods, adding mod slots, etc...

The game is balanced so that pvp won't be unbalanced.

Everyone can play together. That said, the loot is slightly better at purple and usually a lot better at orange.

It's NEVER going to be 25% better.....more like a 10% difference overall. The loot hunt is finding weapons that are tailored to your playstyle and with mods that compliment your perks.

Blackwolfe
04-05-2013, 02:00 PM
Im waiting for the big patch on the 15th this month. Who knows what it'll bring.

Kriegson
04-05-2013, 02:01 PM
Maybe it's an overly simplistic view of it... but, to me, weapon mods == weapon progression.
^ this
Higher level drops usually have more interesting functionalities than lower weapon drops, and more mod slots. That aside, damage is pretty similar and frankly I like it that way. Horizontal progression rather than vertical in which you get more options and versatility rather than higher numbers

Voidfox
04-05-2013, 02:04 PM
Indeed. I've just stumbled upon a sweet SMG that fires multiple projectiles extremely, extremely fast. Combined with fast reload, a few mods, and hip fire, I melt enemies.

Very satisfying. And it's only a green! I think I've found the gun I like the most and now on the hunt for a higher quality version.

Radzwe
04-05-2013, 02:05 PM
To add to what others have to say:

Synergy mods add progression. Advancing weapon skills add effects and bonuses. Maxing a specific weapon's skill bar adds an effect.

Also keep in mind, the enemies scale to ego level. So taking your new weapon to the beginning zone just makes the enemies scale to your higher ego.

That said, I am a little confused why weapons have ego numbers on them. I have not personally noticed a difference between weapons I got at ego 20 and ego 200.

Voidfox
04-05-2013, 02:07 PM
That said, I am a little confused why weapons have ego numbers on them. I have not personally noticed a difference between weapons I got at ego 20 and ego 200.

Be happy they exist. When you pick up new loot, sorting by ilvl allows you to easily see what's new. Eventually this wont work when you hit max lvl, but for now, it's the easiest method I've found searching my inventory for new loot.

A new UI is in order, of course.

MrDDT
04-05-2013, 02:07 PM
Maybe at higher ego levels?
Or through a patch?

I mean Trion wants people to spend real money - say on lockboxes.
But why should I buy a lockbox if my level 400 weapon is already the best?

I think the lacking weapon progression will make many people leave after they beat the story or at least if the hit 5000 ego.

Higher ego weapons do have better stats, I cant tell for all weapons but some for sure. 500+ is where you will start to unlock some of them.

Munx
04-05-2013, 02:08 PM
The current progression is perfect for how the game works, linear weapon progress would make this content to easy very fast..

And honestly you don't need BIG numbers to get a BIG diffrence.

Focus on getting a sick legendary with 4 good bonuses....

Hell focus on getting a legendary barrel with 1.10 aimed hip, that will increase your damage ALOT



For poster above me, false the dmg values are exactly the same for higher level weapons in general.

I'd know im at 1k+

Shogo_Yahagi
04-05-2013, 02:21 PM
The reason you're seeing so many threads about this is that Sledge told us during beta, in response to a question about weapon progression, that the loot in beta did not reflect the loot in the launch version. Now that the game has launched, we're not seeing any difference or getting any response to repeated questions about why we were told one thing but are seeing another. We were told it was going to change. It didn't change. We'd like to know whether the statement was incorrect or if the real system has not been put into place yet.

Continuing to bleat that this is not Borderlands (or insert other game here) just indicates that you haven't been paying attention.

Dinova
04-05-2013, 02:21 PM
Maybe just a brain fart, but what if the DLC will bring new zones and thus higher 'tier' weapons, stronger then any currently available? Maybe next zone will be like EGO 2000 required, zone after EGO4000. Though quite some already got EGO1000+, i dont think you can 'easily' hit 2000 or such.

TortureX
04-05-2013, 02:24 PM
Wait until your ego level is 2000+, 100 to 300 on 5000 is like level 1 to 3 on 50, people are all still noobs.

Archellion
04-05-2013, 02:25 PM
I like the fact that there's not a huge difference in base stats on the weapons. Makes PvP more skill-based rather than gear-based. People who have more time in the game will have a slight advantage in that they've been able to mod their weapons more to meet their tastes, but they won't be melting newbs with their 10k DPS, vorpal SMGs.

ExpiredLifetime
04-05-2013, 02:29 PM
Okay, let me explain some math here. A stock frontier sniper rifle with an innate crit modifier does roughly 1250 damage per non crit shot. (I can't get the actual numbers due to the servers being offline) The crit multiplier is 3.5. That means that on a headshot, with no perks affecting crit damage, you do 4375. The highest grade barrel I've found for my sniper so far is a 1.15 crit modifier, and it modified the crit modifier by 1.15 - making it 4.025.
The damage then is 5031.25, assuming no rounding was done in damage rolls.
If the scaling is the same for legendary mods, it would be a modifier of 1.25. Making the damage then 5468.75.

Think about that. 5468.75 versus 4375. That's a hell of a difference.

Arsenic_Touch
04-05-2013, 02:30 PM
The reason you're seeing so many threads about this is that Sledge told us during beta, in response to a question about weapon progression, that the loot in beta did not reflect the loot in the launch version. Now that the game has launched, we're not seeing any difference or getting any response to repeated questions about why we were told one thing but are seeing another. We were told it was going to change. It didn't change. We'd like to know whether the statement was incorrect or if the real system has not been put into place yet.

Continuing to bleat that this is not Borderlands (or insert other game here) just indicates that you haven't been paying attention.

Thank you, I've been saying this over and over and been getting nothing but snarky responses.

Or you get people like below that IGNORE this very simple fact and continue to post saying the system is fine. I swear... in another mmo people would be foaming at the mouth over such a blatant deception, but here they accept it...

fishboy11
04-05-2013, 02:32 PM
hello 500th topic on this matter! Nice to see you again!

This isn't Borderlands....sorry if you wanted it to be. Better loot comes with higher rarity and not through base damage but in modifications, rarer mods, adding mod slots, etc...

The game is balanced so that pvp won't be unbalanced.

Everyone can play together. That said, the loot is slightly better at purple and usually a lot better at orange.

It's NEVER going to be 25% better.....more like a 10% difference overall. The loot hunt is finding weapons that are tailored to your playstyle and with mods that compliment your perks.


Its not borderlands, damn i was confused seeing as how its taken most of its gameplay from borderlands

Kurze
04-05-2013, 02:37 PM
am I the only one that loves it the way it is?

I have been playing MMOs for well over a decade where a high level player in good gear can sneeze in a random direction and kill 10 noobs. they might aswell be considered raid bosses.

I love the fact that I can outplay and pwn ito submission someone in full oranges and 700 EGO ahead of me because he is bad and Im good


If you guys like the games where gear plays for you and all your required to do is stay awake while pressing 1, 2 and 3 every here and there, by all means, go enjoy them. But I like the way gear progression takes a backseat to skill in a game, for once...

Ralifur
04-05-2013, 02:37 PM
Perfectionising your weapon to your maximum capabilities is not as easy as it seems. yes the upgrades are marginally small but tbh with the difficulty of the current mobs there is no real reason for any progression with the current content as pretty much anything is kinda easily doable (Dont mention arkfalls its just a stand still and shoot without dodging fest anyway).

You have to get that specific legendary with the right stats for your class and afterwards you either aim for normal mods or synergy mods depending on whatever you want and once again you have to hit the right class to get the right mods.

Personally I feel trading is more severely lacking and would like to see chat being fixed soonish so trading can begin. atleast that will lead to a possibility of true perfection.

Also theres quite alot of guns to collect as well as alot of achievs to advance your level to once again perfectionise your character.

I dont really know why you want gear progression so much. The usual wow gear progression where all you do is farm dungs all day long until you get all your gear which will prolly take you a week or what not is kinda not really well fitting in a game like this. It needs to be hard to reach perfection since ur not supposed to finish the game in a couple of days but is supposed to last a while (I tend to say years but idk what you would call the norm these days for an mmo) I personally wish it would be years and after those years have passed you still wouldnt have reached the max and still have reasons to continue playing. :-)

PS: If you also perfectionise your gear properly and spend the time doing so you will eventually also get an advantage over other players that way. Maybe its smaller than usual compared to other mmos but its still an advantage.

Personally I dont feel there should be an advantage at all. everyone should be equal for the most competitive environment possible. Its the only way to find true skill which everyone so craves. :-)

DustOfDeath
04-05-2013, 02:42 PM
damage based progression doesnt fit here - but larger variety of actually useful weapons, more elemental types, more nano effects and new/different bonus stats - while not more "op" compared to early weapons, it would be different.

Like different explosion effects, different lookign infection and bugs, Different BMG effects (perhaps more lightning like bursts?).

Thr0nes
04-05-2013, 02:43 PM
am I the only one that loves it the way it is?

I have been playing MMOs for well over a decade where a high level player in good gear can sneeze in a random direction and kill 10 noobs. they might aswell be considered raid bosses.

I love the fact that I can outplay and pwn ito submission someone in full oranges and 700 EGO ahead of me because he is bad and Im good


If you guys like the games where gear plays for you and all your required to do is stay awake while pressing 1, 2 and 3 every here and there, by all means, go enjoy them. But I like the way gear progression takes a backseat to skill in a game, for once...

^ This, kinda.

Once you hit high teir gear on any other MMO, mobs become a joke and the game play gets old. Hell, you dont even have to face mobs in some games to zap them with instant abilities. Loving the game, enjoying the variety of weapons. Only draw back is the chat system, or lack there of.

Malloci
04-05-2013, 02:44 PM
They wont change it, they would have to rework the entire game, they took out progression around December and to put it back in would mean a serious reworking of the entire game. They would have to tier the different areas of the game to ramp up difficulty.

Personally I think the progression system is horrible and just another example of pve getting ruined by pvp, I would have rather seen real pve progression and made pvp weapon damage a flat constant.

Bluegobln
04-05-2013, 02:48 PM
I think the bigger issue here is people actually think they have the best weapon they can get... at this point in the game. This early.

Sorry, you have NO CLUE what the best weapon in the game is. You don't know... you just don't. How do you know that at 4000 EGO you won't find a turquoise weapon with 15 stat boosts to everything under the sun, 4 mod slots, etc etc.. You don't know that.

So why people are convinced this is it, they're done and there is no "progression" is beyond me. Nobody is 1000 EGO yet are they? Maybe so, but even that is *** 1 / 5 *** of the current EGO cap. One... fifth... they're not even 20% of the way done.

Its insane.

Its like going into World of Warcraft and whining that some level 15 item is too good and that you'll never replace it because the game's item progression simply can't replace something with the perfect stat combination. Of course that game has a very clear and obvious newb friendly item progression but I could definitely see someone making the same mistake if they simply didn't know better.

And thats the answer. YOU DON'T KNOW BETTER. You're a newb, so is EVERYONE else here except internal testers and developers (and some of them would probably say they're newbs too in some ways). Give it a rest. You don't know anything yet.

Paragons
04-05-2013, 02:49 PM
Wait...what?
1. Modding IS progression...
2. Why does no one realizes guns get their own xp.... You get a benefit to the particular gun you use. Not by type but by the actual gun; For handling it you will get bonuses to its use.
3. You ALSO get bonuses for overall weapon type handling too lol...overtime.

3 total types of progression for weapons right there...

This is an increase to dps... which still imo is pointless in this kind of game.

And I highly doubt anyone has the best of anything yet... Game is huge.

This is on top of modding... How is this not progression.

Or people even fail to realize there is much more out there including the factions...

I second the trading...thats a major shortcoming to this game. Some people like to go out past gearing up their own weapons to find things to sell and trade with other players.

Arsenic_Touch
04-05-2013, 02:52 PM
Why do you people continue to miss the point? Read what Shogo_Yayagi said.

Here's the thread - http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?9135-Petition-for-weapon-stat-increase&p=107078#post107078

Now focus on this instead of continuing to explain the current system.

There needs to be an explanation why we were told one thing and got something else.

Valethar
04-05-2013, 02:53 PM
Maybe at higher ego levels?
Or through a patch?

I mean Trion wants people to spend real money - say on lockboxes.
But why should I buy a lockbox if my level 400 weapon is already the best?

I think the lacking weapon progression will make many people leave after they beat the story or at least if the hit 5000 ego.

At higher EGO ratings, you have the chance of more mod slots being already installed, more bonuses being available, more bonuses being on the weapon when you find it, synergies being on the weapon when you find it, higher chance of elemental effects being on the weapon when you find it, etc..

The base damage may be the same as the EGO 400 weapon, but the 400 weapon won't be as good because it's going to lack those things.

Even with that, weapons progression is fairly flat. They did this on purpose because they wanted the skill of the player to matter more than the relative strength of the weapon.

Dagbiker
04-05-2013, 02:55 PM
^ This, kinda.

Once you hit high teir gear on any other MMO, mobs become a joke and the game play gets old. Hell, you dont even have to face mobs in some games to zap them with instant abilities. Loving the game, enjoying the variety of weapons. Only draw back is the chat system, or lack there of.

I agree, I like actually not having to weave in and out of mobs, trying not to agro anybody while just trying to walk down the road to the next city. If I want to go somewhere I just go there, Im not scared of pulling more then one enemy at a time.

I also think, even without the chat, the ArkFalls are the most friendly CoOp I have ever experienced in an MMO. No one is yelling at people to do better no one is being an ***, but people are reviving others, or healing, or killing mobs attacking players who are running away trying not to die.

Bluegobln
04-05-2013, 02:57 PM
There needs to be an explanation why we were told one thing and got something else.In no way does he say that they are changing it. They said "revisit concerns when we launch".

You want it changed, so you see that as "they will change it for launch" but that is NOT what was said.

Your concerns have been heard, and they were found insufficient to make sweeping changes to the game, so it remains as designed.

GG?

Arsenic_Touch
04-05-2013, 02:58 PM
In no way does he say that they are changing it. They said "revisit concerns when we launch".

You want it changed, so you see that as "they will change it for launch" but that is NOT what was said.

Your concerns have been heard, and they were found insufficient to make sweeping changes to the game, so it remains as designed.

GG?

....are you blind? He said the stats in beta do not reflect the stats in game, yet here we are with the same stats from the beta. When you say things are different, that means they're changing it. Go back under your bridge.

Grimwyrd
04-05-2013, 03:00 PM
Is there any chance that weapon progression is coming?

No, there isn't any chance. Games that have weapon progression... have enemy progression.

If you got a weapon that did twice as much damage... what would you do with it? There's no "higher level" foes to kill. And in PvP, they'd just have to add better shields to offset the better guns.

alilsneaky
04-05-2013, 03:00 PM
Don't listen to 10 whiners on a forum trion.

You did the right thing by not adding scaling weapons, it's the only way the pvp and shadow wars stay enjoyable for everyone.
Keep the carrot out of your game.

Grimwyrd
04-05-2013, 03:03 PM
Go back under your bridge.

Arsenic... final tweaking of stats does not mean to imply that they will completely redesign the game to add some sort of stat progression. They can't. The game isn't designed for a stat progression.

You read way too much into Sledge's brief statement. You weren't lied to... you simply misunderstood. Give it a rest. Please.

Bluegobln
04-05-2013, 03:04 PM
....are you blind? He said the stats in beta do not reflect the stats in game, yet here we are with the same stats from the beta. When you say things are different, that means they're changing it. Go back under your bridge.He didn't say "different" he said, and I quote YOU on this, "Do not reflect the stats in the game". That means they aren't necessarily identical. Can you claim to have images or spreadsheets comparing beta and release stats showing that nothing has been changed whatsoever? Or are you basing this on the fact that you want a BIGGER change and there is none apparent on the level you desire?

You're trying to twist words into your favor. Nowhere does it say they are changing anything. Nowhere does it say they're moving to an EGO based item progression with actual damage stat upgrades, or anything like that.

Arsenic_Touch
04-05-2013, 03:07 PM
Arsenic... final tweaking of stats does not mean to imply that they will completely redesign the game to add some sort of stat progression. They can't. The game isn't designed for a stat progression.

You read way too much into Sledge's brief statement. You weren't lied to... you simply misunderstood. Give it a rest. Please.

********, it was a deceptive post. When someone asks for different weapon damage and sledge says they're different in the live game and we find them the same, that is a lie. You can try to rationalize it all you want.

Bluegobln
04-05-2013, 03:10 PM
********, it was a deceptive post. When someone asks for different weapon damage and sledge says they're different in the live game and we find them the same, that is a lie. You can try to rationalize it all you want.MMkay. What do you want then. Assuming I agree and you are lied to, this is how it IS now... what of it. What can you possibly do to change it. Are you going to try to hold them hostage? Are you threatening to sue them if they don't change it?

What can you possibly do about it? Whine whine whine... that's all you have, and I'm asking you as someone who DOES NOT like this, to go play a game that has items the way you want them. I want them this way.

That or just leave it alone and accept that its not perfect for you. Deal with it like an adult.

Grimwyrd
04-05-2013, 03:11 PM
********, it was a deceptive post. When someone asks for different weapon damage and sledge says they're different in the live game and we find them the same, that is a lie. You can try to rationalize it all you want.

OK. You were lied to. Are we done now? Do you need a hug?

It doesn't change the fact that they can't add stat progression unless they add NPC progression. Do you really want to be one-shotting biomen with a pistol?

Bluegobln
04-05-2013, 03:14 PM
OK. You were lied to. Are we done now? Do you need a hug?

It doesn't change the fact that they can't add stat progression unless they add NPC progression. Do you really want to be one-shotting biomen with a pistol?This, so much. Seriously do people even consciously recognize what they're asking for?

I think what they really want is to own people in PVP because they can spend more time in the game and thus have better gear. They're frustrated that they can't just outlevel people and one shot "newbs" in PVP because of their superior gear and level. I bet they call that "skill" as well.. lol

Warlander
04-05-2013, 03:15 PM
OK. You were lied to. Are we done now? Do you need a hug?

It doesn't change the fact that they can't add stat progression unless they add NPC progression. Do you really want to be one-shotting biomen with a pistol?

no one was lied to, they just meant more variation, was never stated weapon damages would scale.

but your right they can't change it and shouldn't.
but they need an official response because im sick of a few idiots that dont understand the game spamming the forums every day.

i love the system

RAYNE Mois
04-05-2013, 03:23 PM
I suppose I didn't take pvp into consideration when forming my opinion on this matter, so that was my bad. But on a side note I still feel like a lot of our weapon options were just created to give the illusion of choices. I have yet to find an infector or bmg that is actually practical. They're sweet weapons and their functions are awesome, but the damage you deal with them is extremely subpar. Not to mention the Votan ARs that are nothing more than oversized SMGs at best. Love this game, but I just want to be able to take advantage of more diverse options than your typical COD style loadout.

Daholic
04-05-2013, 04:00 PM
Heres what was said:


The weapons and weapon stats along with Loot tables are a few months old and do not reflect the final launch settings. How about we revisit your concerns once the final game is launched.



Thanks
Sledgehammer
Defiance Community Manager
@sledgehammer70
Defiance PC US User Name: Sledgehammer70

Sooo..im to understand that currently this isnt the final launch then right??? Is this beta 4???

Haha you Fanboys are so galactically stupid in thinking that if i told you weapon stats in beta are 2mnths old and not reflect the final launch could possibly mean anything other than we were told a flat out lie, and you fanboys are defending it, and when you see how stupid you are from lacking basic reading comprehension, you finally agree and then say now what???

when the population drops from lack of interest, and you start seeing fewer and fewer purple dots just remember you fanboys singlehandedly supported and ruined this game. Ive been posting here a month and what Fanboys excuses go from
"Dude, its only Beta"..

to "Dude it only been out 2days"..

to "Dude more DLC's are coming"..

to "Dude you remember WOW had a horrible launch day"..

to "Dude, when im told that the beta weapon stats dont refect the final launch, doesnt mean they will change, he never said it will change, he just said they dont reflect the final launch"

AmishWarMachine
04-05-2013, 04:12 PM
Heres what was said:

The weapons and weapon stats along with Loot tables are a few months old and do not reflect the final launch settings. How about we revisit your concerns once the final game is launched.

Thanks
Sledgehammer
Defiance Community Manager
@sledgehammer70
Defiance PC US User Name: Sledgehammer70

Sooo..im to understand that currently this isnt the final launch then right??? Is this beta 4???

.....Methinks there are some serious false conclusions being drawn by people, by way of their hopes and expectations.

Warlander
04-05-2013, 04:14 PM
Methinks there are some serious false conclusions being drawn by people, by way of their hopes and expectations.

Yup, that says nothing about weapon damage scaling, I think people just read what they want to read.

Stryfe
04-05-2013, 04:19 PM
Methinks there are some serious false conclusions being drawn by people, by way of their hopes and expectations.

Yep - I was going to say - for better or worse in all this, people sure are drawing one hell of a conclusion from what was a vague answer to begin with!

I mean, what the hell did he mean? Did he mean overall? Vs. the content that the beta testers got to actually see?

What about drops that come at EGO 1000+?

Are we still talking about the 10-500 range?

Who? What?! Huh!?

How?!

ZOMFG *HEAD EXPLODE!*

groundhouse
04-05-2013, 04:21 PM
To add to what others have to say:

Synergy mods add progression. Advancing weapon skills add effects and bonuses. Maxing a specific weapon's skill bar adds an effect.

Also keep in mind, the enemies scale to ego level. So taking your new weapon to the beginning zone just makes the enemies scale to your higher ego.

.
They Drop only Scales to Ego-Level.The Enemie Health Scales to Number of Players,and The Number of players has no impact on Enemies damage.Thats why all Weapon do the same Damage (with Perks,mods) from Egolevel 1-5k

Warlander
04-05-2013, 04:23 PM
People also dont realize that there are some weapon types that only show up at higher ego ratings, you might think your certain weapon is the be all and end all of weapons, but you will find things later that are more fun.

The progression in this game is great too bad some are stuck thinking about mmo's from 2001

BlueRaith
04-05-2013, 04:25 PM
I think this system is great. Horizontal weapon progression means that you can do anything at anytime. "Endgame" is going to be subjective here because with the way things are now, a new player could end up doing the eventual new content from the get go if Trion doesn't put an Ego Rank prerequisite on them. This makes the game more accessible overall. I don't think there will be "endgame" content like we are used to. Just more content.

Lol, I'm posting on my iPod so my thought was unfinished when I accidentally touched the Post Reply button.

Dixa
04-05-2013, 04:36 PM
Heres what was said:


The weapons and weapon stats along with Loot tables are a few months old and do not reflect the final launch settings. How about we revisit your concerns once the final game is launched.



Thanks
Sledgehammer
Defiance Community Manager
@sledgehammer70
Defiance PC US User Name: Sledgehammer70

Sooo..im to understand that currently this isnt the final launch then right??? Is this beta 4???

Haha you Fanboys are so galactically stupid in thinking that if i told you weapon stats in beta are 2mnths old and not reflect the final launch could possibly mean anything other than we were told a flat out lie, and you fanboys are defending it, and when you see how stupid you are from lacking basic reading comprehension, you finally agree and then say now what???

when the population drops from lack of interest, and you start seeing fewer and fewer purple dots just remember you fanboys singlehandedly supported and ruined this game. Ive been posting here a month and what Fanboys excuses go from
"Dude, its only Beta"..

to "Dude it only been out 2days"..

to "Dude more DLC's are coming"..

to "Dude you remember WOW had a horrible launch day"..

to "Dude, when im told that the beta weapon stats dont refect the final launch, doesnt mean they will change, he never said it will change, he just said they dont reflect the final launch"

i hit this same ego level (750) in beta 3 and didnt see any of the stats i'm seeing on weapons now.

no, the base damage is the same. that is not going to change - this is a skill based game not who is the highest levl and has the best loot. however i've found some crazy combos in bonus stats like 15% grenade recharge and massive crit increases (i have a pistol that hits for 300 but crits for 6k, more than most sniper rifles!!).

those ARE stats. they may not be the stats you want. maybe you want it to be like vanilla wow pvp where all the raiders just facerolled the non raiders in battlegrounds because the raiding gear was so ridiculously good. well...too bad.

brandon11782
04-05-2013, 04:39 PM
Horizontal progression is definitely a good thing.

In PvP.

In PvE, horizontal progression makes things tend to get boring quick. To all the people saying they love horizontal progression so pvp is equal - Couldn't they have just made PvE equipment seperate from PvP equipment? And to the point of major events like Arkfalls - Couldn't you scale down a player's power to the average power of a player in that area, so that one man couldn't do half the damage to one boss/crystal? Like GW2. That game has vertical progression - or, at least the illusion of it. You get better equipment, you feel like you become more powerful, but all the while you'll be de-leveled accordingly so you'll never be OP to an area.

Defiance is good, I just feel like there is 0 weapon progression. I really don't see how you can call modding your weapons progressing with them considering I could apply 4 decent mods to a gun and they'd never need to be replaced.. Ever.

AmishWarMachine
04-05-2013, 04:46 PM
I really don't see how you can call modding your weapons progressing with them considering I could apply 4 decent mods to a gun and they'd never need to be replaced.. Ever.
The sheer variety and levels of each mod say otherwise. Your "(white) Ionic Barrel I" is not as good as the "(white) Ionic Barrel II" which is not as good as "(green) Ionic Barrel II" which is not.... (you get the point, I think).

That's not even factoring in the other passive buffs mods can have. Or synergies.

Mods are an awesome way to progress one's weapon. As the game gets older, and what's truly available becomes better known, this will become more evident.

nateD
04-05-2013, 04:47 PM
Overall, I have nothing against how they scaled weapons and the whole system. The only thing that irritates me is the fact that you do not increase your skills if a weapon has a full experience bar and you have to find new nice weapon to the skill to grow.

So in Defiance there is no such thing like 'favorite weapon', which will be used long, unless you don't care about increasing skills in using this type of weapon.

Major Nelson
04-05-2013, 04:50 PM
i think they should increase the bass stats as far as damage but they would need to change ALOT of things to compensate but i agree they should try something with it, also if they increase weps maybe 20 damage per 100 ego i would be happy

AmishWarMachine
04-05-2013, 04:50 PM
I thought I had read someone post that they read a dev post that said they were working to fix that. So even if you've topped out your favorite weapon, your skill in that class of weapon will still rise.

However, one has to understand, at some point, the skill has to top out.

brandon11782
04-05-2013, 04:57 PM
The sheer variety and levels of each mod say otherwise. Your "(white) Ionic Barrel I" is not as good as the "(white) Ionic Barrel II" which is not as good as "(green) Ionic Barrel II" which is not.... (you get the point, I think).

That's not even factoring in the other passive buffs mods can have. Or synergies.

Mods are an awesome way to progress one's weapon. As the game gets older, and what's truly available becomes better known, this will become more evident.

But my point is that I could get amazing mods at EGO 300 that would also be amazing to an EGO 3000.
I'm not a big fan of that. I just feel like PvE should bring a feeling of "Damn, I really am turning into a badass". Not the feeling of "Everyone is just as powerful as I am." That feeling should be exclusive to PvP. Regardless, the game's fun, I just feel like PvE just isn't right.

Edit: And with the current PvE system, there are surely some out there who already have the perfect AR or shotgun. It shouldn't take 3 days to get to that point. :/

Dixa
04-05-2013, 05:00 PM
i think they should increase the bass stats as far as damage but they would need to change ALOT of things to compensate but i agree they should try something with it, also if they increase weps maybe 20 damage per 100 ego i would be happy

http://floridabassfishingguides.com/images/7.jpg ???

boosted gear
04-05-2013, 05:10 PM
http://floridabassfishingguides.com/images/7.jpg ???

wow i think thats a pretty good bass stat to start with lol why would you want to increase that unless you wanted some elemental pike damage.

Jestunhi
04-05-2013, 05:19 PM
Bad players don't like skill being the deciding factor.

They want to buy loots that will let them win.

Hopefully another game won't be ruined with the gear treadmill self-abuse that so many other games try, and fail, to copy to keep people in the game.

Warlander
04-05-2013, 05:20 PM
Bad players don't like skill being the deciding factor.

They want to buy loots that will let them win.

Hopefully another game won't be ruined with the gear treadmill self-abuse that so many other games try, and fail, to copy to keep people in the game.

Yes exactly this

Dixa
04-05-2013, 05:21 PM
Bad players don't like skill being the deciding factor.

They want to buy loots that will let them win.

Hopefully another game won't be ruined with the gear treadmill self-abuse that so many other games try, and fail, to copy to keep people in the game.

this is why the spvp gear in guild wars 2 all has the same stats. skill is more important.

brandon11782
04-05-2013, 05:24 PM
this is why the spvp gear in guild wars 2 all has the same stats.
But not the PvE gear, which Defiance should've taken a note of.

Jestunhi
04-05-2013, 05:25 PM
But not the PvE gear, which Defiance should've taken a note of.

Why?

If you increase player power then you have to increase NPC power - otherwise it gets easier as you get further into the game. You don;t actually get stronger compared to what you fight.

So the end result is a few bigger numbers on a character window, and the introduction of much more grinding, of content gating where you need a certain level of gear to do a certain level of content, etc.

:edit:

If your idea of a good game is numbers in the character window getting higher then try this: www.progressquest.com - it takes out all that pesky gameplay and just lets you watch the stats increase! :D

Warlander
04-05-2013, 05:26 PM
But not the PvE gear, which Defiance should've taken a note of.

Gw2 gear caps out, its also a different kind of a game with mobs that start at lvl 1 and go to 80 +
In this game everything is lvl 1 give or take, therefore weapons dont scale, its not magic, it makes sense and it works,
its a great system.

too bad some whiners suck.

Dixa
04-05-2013, 05:27 PM
But not the PvE gear, which Defiance should've taken a note of.

eh? there's not much progression in guild wars 2 gear wise when you hit 80. the difference between level 80 rares and level 80 exotics is minimal. the hard as hell to make legendaries are tiny upgrades to exotics. wh en i say tiny i'm talking about single digit percentages, and that percentage point being less than 5 but greater than 0.5.

my first 80 was in full exotics about 3 days later. two were lucky finds. the rest i crafted myself. even ascended gear isn't all that big of an improvement. this is due to the fact you can take this gear into wvwvw.

Dixa
04-05-2013, 05:45 PM
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj14/narial1/Defiance2013-04-0517-40-19-361_zps73b15c2a.jpg

bonuses tied to mods. ayup.

NalkorRN
04-05-2013, 06:11 PM
Methinks there are some serious false conclusions being drawn by people, by way of their hopes and expectations.

No one would be drawing false conclusions if the devs were more upfront about what they were intending to do in the first place.

NalkorRN
04-05-2013, 06:12 PM
Gw2 gear caps out, its also a different kind of a game with mobs that start at lvl 1 and go to 80 +
In this game everything is lvl 1 give or take, therefore weapons dont scale, its not magic, it makes sense and it works,
its a great system.

too bad some whiners suck.GW2 gear boils down to buying the right stuff for each new tier because it's cheaper than crafting, I found that out the hard way. Only the first tier is expensive for some reason.

Cortechs
04-05-2013, 06:13 PM
Hopefully another game won't be ruined with the gear treadmill self-abuse that so many other games try, and fail, to copy to keep people in the game.

Agree completely!

AmishWarMachine
04-05-2013, 06:18 PM
No one would be drawing false conclusions if the devs were more upfront about what they were intending to do in the first place.Historically speaking, no MMO has ever been transparent to that level.

RAYNE Mois
04-05-2013, 06:25 PM
I feel like people need to stop throwing out the word "suck" just because others disagree with something.
Yes, I would like scaled loot, because I love feeling like I'm a monster after I put in a ton of gameplay. No, that does not mean I "suck" or am "bad" or my personal favorite "don't have skill". I get why the system is the way it is, and I'm not requesting a change, but it is just a little disappointing to know that I could put in 300 hours and my buddy with let's say 10 hours could come in along side and kick just as much ***.
And let's not discuss modding our weapons since it is well known that leveling your gun prohibits further leveling of that gun's respective skill. Why would I want to pour 4 amazing mods into a gun just to be forced to put it back on the weapon rack once it levels?

Karazykid
04-05-2013, 06:32 PM
I feel like people need to stop throwing out the word "suck" just because others disagree with something.
Yes, I would like scaled loot, because I love feeling like I'm a monster after I put in a ton of gameplay. No, that does not mean I "suck" or am "bad" or my personal favorite "don't have skill". I get why the system is the way it is, and I'm not requesting a change, but it is just a little disappointing to know that I could put in 300 hours and my buddy with let's say 10 hours could come in along side and kick just as much ***.
And let's not discuss modding our weapons since it is well known that leveling your gun prohibits further leveling of that gun's respective skill. Why would I want to pour 4 amazing mods into a gun just to be forced to put it back on the weapon rack once it levels?

You can take the mods back off...

RAYNE Mois
04-05-2013, 06:50 PM
You can take the mods back off...

And that's your final answer?
Let's take a read directly from the Salvage Matrix itself; "Take a modded weapon and empty the weapons slots. (All mods are lost.)"
One can only assume that the usage of the word "lost" in that sentence doesn't mean the mods have lost their way and aren't sure how to get back home, which means.... Oh that's right, all of my kickass mods either stay on the gun I can't use or they get destroyed.

You are the worst fanboy ever.

AmishWarMachine
04-05-2013, 06:54 PM
RAYNE,

Bear with me, as this is not first-hand knowledge, but what I've seen posted here:

When you go to salvage a modded weapon, you are given two options:
~Remove the mods (destroy the weapon)
~Retrieve the weapon (destroy the mods)

So, if this is fact, you can keep your kickass mods, and put it on a new weapon.

I realize that perfect world is that you can remove mods, individually, and lose nothing... but that's apparently a design decision that Trion has made. A Risk-Reward style of choice.

/shrug

RAYNE Mois
04-05-2013, 07:06 PM
Ah, well played. I just checked for myself and the option is there.