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View Full Version : Backpack Synergy/ Paired Synergy Can we get an update?



Critical Errors
07-09-2015, 09:28 AM
I know the community has asked for changes to certain synergies for quite a while, but I don't see any mention of them being worked on. Can we get some comment about if they are still being looked into?

Specific changes that my clan and I would love to see.

We would like to see the removal of stipulations of the added bonus e.g. Dmg from last shot on Outlaw.

We feel a good balance to other synergies is in order. Here are some suggestions:

CHARACTER NAMED PAIRED SYNERGIES:

OUTLAW: 5% DMG

VETERAN: 10% FIRE RATE

MACHINIST: 10% RELOAD

SURVIVALIST: 5% CRIT


FACTION PAIRED SYNERGIES:

HARD-BOILED: 2% SELF-REVIVE REFRESH

NANO-MASTERY: 5% NANO EFFECT CHANCE

NANO-EXECUTIONER: COMBINE WITH NANO-MASTERY/ 5% NANO EFFECT CHANCE


Any insight from fellow ark hunters is welcome! Hopefully this can get to Kiwi or Rashere and we can get some good feedback on it!

Happy Hunting!

cmpowell
07-09-2015, 09:37 AM
I believe when they asked for suggestions about fixing and improving syns it was so they could come up with more desirable event and lockbox syns. Not to change current ones.

If we are talking about the same thread

Mister Derpenhowser
07-09-2015, 09:39 AM
I believe when they asked for suggestions about fixing and improving syns it was so they could come up with more desirable event and lockbox syns. Not to change current ones.

If we are talking about the same thread

Yup, this^.

Your ideas coming to a bitstore near you soon!

Critical Errors
07-09-2015, 09:42 AM
I believe when they asked for suggestions about fixing and improving syns it was so they could come up with more desirable event and lockbox syns. Not to change current ones.

If we are talking about the same thread


Well I'm all for that as well. Spent plenty of money on Spinal Tap. But the current synergies need some lovin too!

Valethar
07-09-2015, 11:39 AM
The majority of backpack syns are junk. They just get recycled when I find them. I'd rather have mod synergies, I don't think I've seen a backpack syn yet that I'd trade for a mod syn.

Destromathe
07-09-2015, 11:48 AM
Hey All,

We are definitely looking at the possibility of changing old synergies, and is something that we want to rollout in the future. I can't make any promises, but I can tell you some of the hurdles that we have with this. If we make the change retroactive, we would be taking away options that some players may really enjoy, and we don't want to do that. If we modify them and make it non retroactive, we have an issue with mods not working properly.

Your feedback has always been appreciated, and is even in a document right on my desktop right now that we are hoping to utilize in the future. Keep watching patch notes and PTS updates for possible changes to this in the future.

Critical Errors
07-09-2015, 01:15 PM
Double posted :(

Critical Errors
07-09-2015, 01:17 PM
Hey All,

We are definitely looking at the possibility of changing old synergies, and is something that we want to rollout in the future. I can't make any promises, but I can tell you some of the hurdles that we have with this. If we make the change retroactive, we would be taking away options that some players may really enjoy, and we don't want to do that. If we modify them and make it non retroactive, we have an issue with mods not working properly.

Your feedback has always been appreciated, and is even in a document right on my desktop right now that we are hoping to utilize in the future. Keep watching patch notes and PTS updates for possible changes to this in the future.

Thank you for the speedy response! Happy to know that it's still on the to-do list! Part of our thinking with the above examples of change would definitely still fit in with the current synergies.

Dixie Cougar
07-09-2015, 01:17 PM
Thanks for chiming in Destromathe.

I would be surprised if anyone missed the Machinist or Survivalist backpack syns, really. The effect could be multiplied several times over and still be underpowered!

Altras
07-09-2015, 01:20 PM
I had a few suggestions (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?175343-Outdated-Synergies) a while back. Itd be great to see the original backpack synergies revived ^_^

Claydough
07-09-2015, 01:20 PM
Well it didnt bother you changing detatchment perk, so why would changing a crappy synergy be any different?

Dixie Cougar
07-09-2015, 01:38 PM
Well it didnt bother you changing detatchment perk, so why would changing a crappy synergy be any different?

I still don't get why they had to nerf it completely into the ground. 15 seconds is too much downtime.

Dreypa
07-09-2015, 02:09 PM
Let me do the defiance community a favor.
NO ONE WILL MISS THE ****ING VETERAN / MACHINIST / SURVIVALIST synergeries. EVER.
Just get rid of them. Make em useful. **** something. Its so bad getting a decent gun drop to find out its a ****ing backpack syn only to belong to the vendor.

Destromathe
07-09-2015, 02:17 PM
Thanks for chiming in Destromathe.

I would be surprised if anyone missed the Machinist or Survivalist backpack syns, really. The effect could be multiplied several times over and still be underpowered!

I completely understand, and backpack synergies are the easiest to change due to players not purchasing mods for them. But do understand that the entire player consensus is not something we can judge based on the opinions of the few, or even the majority. Taking away a synergy that even one player loves, and worked hard to get, is not something we want to do. I can promise you that we are certainly looking into other solutions though!

SirServed
07-09-2015, 02:22 PM
I completely understand, and backpack synergies are the easiest to change due to players not purchasing mods for them. But do understand that the entire player consensus is not something we can judge based on the opinions of the few, or even the majority. Taking away a synergy that even one player loves, and worked hard to get, is not something we want to do. I can promise you that we are certainly looking into other solutions though!
Or completely nerfing a perk that even one player loves? There were obviously no compromising solutions there when it was time for Detachment to face the chopping block. Let's be honest, Detachment was nerfed for the simple task of lowering Expedition survivability because the combat difficulty in the rest of the game is a joke in comparison.

cmpowell
07-09-2015, 02:27 PM
Hey All,

We are definitely looking at the possibility of changing old synergies, and is something that we want to rollout in the future. I can't make any promises, but I can tell you some of the hurdles that we have with this. If we make the change retroactive, we would be taking away options that some players may really enjoy, and we don't want to do that. If we modify them and make it non retroactive, we have an issue with mods not working properly.

Your feedback has always been appreciated, and is even in a document right on my desktop right now that we are hoping to utilize in the future. Keep watching patch notes and PTS updates for possible changes to this in the future.

I think it would be great if any back pack syn worked with any other back pack syn. Meaning you could equip a vet tachmag and a survivalist wolf hound and the syns would work

Dixie Cougar
07-09-2015, 02:32 PM
Or completely nerfing a perk that even one player loves? There were obviously no compromising solutions there when it was time for Detachment to face the chopping block. Let's be honest, Detachment was nerfed for the simple task of lowering Expedition survivability because the combat difficulty in the rest of the game is a joke in comparison.

I guess perks are something that can be changed more readily than weapon synergies, but stuff like machinist/survivalist is kind of a trap right now. They're so grossly underpowered that they actually lower the value of the weapon in most cases because they're akin to having no synergy at all.

And I do think it is a bit odd, given the stated emphasis on player preferences, that a perk that was not all that popular (afaik) but had a niche following had to be nuked. We actually had discussions in TS about whether this perk was worth it in expos. He thought it was, I wasn't 100% sure. Now we are both certain it isn't.


I think it would be great if any back pack syn worked with any other back pack syn. Meaning you could equip a vet tachmag and a survivalist wolf hound and the syns would work

This is an interesting idea because one of the major weaknesses of these syns is that it's not worthwhile to change your weapon selection to get the benefit. In nearly every case the synergy or rolls of the second gun will take precedence.

If this could be done, at least surv/mach would have utility as a means to unlocking the better backpacks, such as they are.

Ray8888
07-09-2015, 02:39 PM
Yeah that would be awesome. I have two great Vet weapons completely T5ed but they are the same ammo pool. Big weakness.

Altras
07-09-2015, 03:18 PM
............zaggers.

Critical Errors
07-09-2015, 03:26 PM
Let me do the defiance community a favor.
NO ONE WILL MISS THE ****ING VETERAN / MACHINIST / SURVIVALIST synergeries. EVER.
Just get rid of them. Make em useful. **** something. Its so bad getting a decent gun drop to find out its a ****ing backpack syn only to belong to the vendor.


That's not entirely true. But tweaking them to remove limiting factors would bring them more in line with other synergies. Since there's alot of talk about Machinist being useless, I'll present another example. Currently it is take less dmg while reloading. I originally recommended it become a straight reload bump, but it could also just as easily be turned into a straight "take 5% less dmg". I know that would make me think twice about breaking that synergy down.

RobtimusMaverick
07-09-2015, 09:29 PM
Man, I just got used to how those worked... Sad to see they will be kind of messed up. I have a survivalist character slot and a Veteran too. It was a nice bonus to see with the glut of synergies out there. We should set up a suggestions post too with a poll and all that and link it from here to get more involved.

Critical Errors
07-10-2015, 04:08 AM
Man, I just got used to how those worked... Sad to see they will be kind of messed up. I have a survivalist character slot and a Veteran too. It was a nice bonus to see with the glut of synergies out there. We should set up a suggestions post too with a poll and all that and link it from here to get more involved.

And the designers are taking your situation into account! However, if you notice some of the suggestions here and also on other posts, your backpack synergy could have the potential of being much better and not losing the current bonus, just giving you the bonus without limiting factors.

PithHelmetIrath
07-10-2015, 05:42 AM
It would be nice to see a weapon have a backpack synergy, and not automatically think: J-U-N-K.

Most favored paired synergy in my inventory would be: Wetwork.

captainvideo
07-10-2015, 11:52 AM
I have never bothered to dual equip to activate a backpack synergy because the effect is too weak to even give consideration to. I am not going to look up every synergy but I suspect from my gut feeling that the backpack synergies are probably weaker than any first tier synergy from a normal mod (4 level) gun. So I can get more by putting one green mod on any normal synergy weapon. (and for most of those, people would say that the first two activations are the most important.)

Anyway,....
I think a fair and simple short term solution for backpack synergies is to just remove the requirement for holding two weapons. The wetwork and firewall work this way for the first level. None of the backpack (old) synergies give a benefit that is noticeable or useful and they need to be changed in some way. Someone suggested just letting them activate with any other backpack item, I say just activate them from the get go. We should probably just remove them from current drops as well.

Claydough
07-10-2015, 08:20 PM
I still don't get why they had to nerf it completely into the ground. 15 seconds is too much downtime.

I think you know why.

I dont see any offencive perks being nerfed...

Valethar
07-10-2015, 09:21 PM
Man, I just got used to how those worked... Sad to see they will be kind of messed up. I have a survivalist character slot and a Veteran too. It was a nice bonus to see with the glut of synergies out there. We should set up a suggestions post too with a poll and all that and link it from here to get more involved.


To be honest, forum polls don't serve any useful purpose. They only sample a very small subset of the player base and suffer from troll poisoning. Trion likely has far better, and more useful, data obtained from various metrics already in place than they would ever get from a poll.

crasher
07-10-2015, 09:57 PM
Or completely nerfing a perk that even one player loves? There were obviously no compromising solutions there when it was time for Detachment to face the chopping block. Let's be honest, Detachment was nerfed for the simple task of lowering Expedition survivability because the combat difficulty in the rest of the game is a joke in comparison.

I thought you might have tossed 'Preparedness' into the mix while you were making your point.

As far as backpack syns are concerned, the likelihood of my finding a 2nd weapon that is in the same E-range, and actually a worthwhile weapon type with stats that matter to compliment my primary weapon is so slim that it's not ever been worth my time to consider, after futzing with it for the first several days and seeing how it just never worked out.

I might use a backpack weapon on occasion, but it's never for any reason to do with the syn.




I think it would be great if any back pack syn worked with any other back pack syn. Meaning you could equip a vet tachmag and a survivalist wolf hound and the syns would work
^^^^^^
This is actually terrific way to go, and would make B/P syns better than useless details.

Atticus Batman
07-10-2015, 10:37 PM
I thought you might have tossed 'Preparedness' into the mix while you were making your point.

As far as backpack syns are concerned, the likelihood of my finding a 2nd weapon that is in the same E-range, and actually a worthwhile weapon type with stats that matter to compliment my primary weapon is so slim that it's not ever been worth my time to consider, after futzing with it for the first several days and seeing how it just never worked out.

I might use a backpack weapon on occasion, but it's never for any reason to do with the syn.




^^^^^^
This is actually terrific way to go, and would make B/P syns better than useless details.

I still think Backpacks should be buffed to be better than mod syns since we are forced to use all of our equipment spots to make use of the synergy. So if we have to lock gear of the same syn into 2 or all 3 gear slots then it should be a much better synergy to make it worthwhile for us to want to tie up all our gear slots on that synergy.

RobtimusMaverick
07-10-2015, 11:50 PM
And the designers are taking your situation into account! However, if you notice some of the suggestions here and also on other posts, your backpack synergy could have the potential of being much better and not losing the current bonus, just giving you the bonus without limiting factors.


Yes, I did notice that! You know, one does worry about something being changed. At least I am expecting it now.


To be honest, forum polls don't serve any useful purpose. They only sample a very small subset of the player base and suffer from troll poisoning. Trion likely has far better, and more useful, data obtained from various metrics already in place than they would ever get from a poll.

I get that, thanks for letting me know; I'm still getting used to how this forum works.