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View Full Version : Why Supreme weapons are bad: thread #982 (Supreme Rarity Riot! Laying it all out.)



Nefarious
08-06-2015, 10:51 PM
So Im checking up on the PTS forum looking to see what changes might have taken place or what players have discovered. And came across this thread http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?221166-Screenshot-request-of-certain-supreme-weapons&p=1803270#post1803270

Nothing bad about the thread in itself other then the pictures Im looking at.

This visual nails home one example Ive been talking about on how its bad to just have Natty Ojs to be able to upgrade to Supreme. Because the only guns abroad that are going to be upgraded to Supreme are the Event/Jackpot weapons. Weapons that are already the best versions of their variants.

The scale of Natty Ojs that are not Event/Jackpots that come out having good rolls, synergy, and a good nano to match are extremely slim. But these Event/Jackpot weapons have been produced to be near perfect. And for the many players who haven't been around for these Events to get these near perfect rolled guns as gifts are going to be more outclassed then before since they don't have a starter bundle of the best guns in the game that came as Ojs to upgrade to Supreme.

Trion, as much as you like to think that Supreme rarity is going to be some special snow flake its not. Before week 1 is over after Supreme goes live many players will have up to 10 or more weapons in Supreme rarity do to the Event weapons.

This will leave one half of the community with Supreme weapons; versions of guns that are already some of the best and will be getting upgraded to be even better. While the other half of the community which consists of new or very casual players will not be getting Supreme guns at all because they will be in the position where getting a Natty Oj worth investing in would be rare occurrence.

This is why Epic Born guns upgraded to Legendary should be able to upgrade to Supreme. So newer and all players can look to get fair shake to be able to match up. Just as it's currently now with players upgrading Epic to Oj.

Not only that but no will spend 500 Ark Forge to upgrade Epic to Oj again. For the same reason no one upgrades a Blue to Purple. 500 Ark Forge is the biggest Ark Forge price for anything in the game. And this is 500 Ark Forge that players have become accustomed to willingly spend when they get it. And with Epic guns having value to upgrade it happens often. So its stupid of you Trion to snuff that away by diminishing Epic's value.

Its also going to lessen the value of inventory space and trade among players.

As it stands now players come across many Epic tier guns that they hold onto that they deem worthy to want to upgrade to Legendary. And if they are satisfied with the result then that's a gun worth keeping. But if you make Epic the new Blue then all those Epic drops are going to be sold straight to the vendor. Less guns to keep means needing less inventory space.

And if you make Epic the new Blue then hardly anyone is going to trade stuff anymore. Less mods will be sold or traded among players as less guns will have potential to be deemed worthy to invest and upgrade in. No one is going to sell Epic guns at all either because they are going to be the new Blue guns.

But if you allow Epic Born guns that have been upgraded to Legendary to then allow to be upgraded to Supreme all this good stuff you must like with players spending 500 Ark Forge and needing inventory space and trading and interacting with each other stays as is or becomes even better.

So I don't see how in allowing it to work this way is not a win-win for everyone. Players will be happy/er. 500 AF keeps getting spent and you/Trion must like that. So why not?

But if not and Orange becomes the new Purple just to try and make Supreme special when it wont be then all the good stuff we know of takes a big hit and a lot of players become disgruntled. And then we can go down that road and see how that pans out. Im not going anywhere. But I don't want to say 'I told you so' if it all breaks down like this.

Octo
08-06-2015, 11:17 PM
I don't like/want Supreme weapons as well, for a lot of reasons, but I don't understand why everyone seems to think that they NEED to upgrade a legendary weapon to supreme.
First, a good legendary is still a good legendary, and second... well, why do you need a better gun ? And for what ?

richardkrainium
08-06-2015, 11:52 PM
Ftpers need them so they can over value them and try to rip ppl off even more. i can guarantee that the majority of supreme weapons that are made are gonna be solely for profit instead of personal use. hence why i suggest they become untradeable after upgrade

SaikoTeek
08-07-2015, 12:59 AM
I picked up a purple ss det off the ground during armistice and turned it into a fully t4d, 2x dmg oj w awesome rolls. It's one of my babies along w an assassin Wolfhound w 6.4x crit I built. Both of these will suddenly become red locked and shunned. The hours I've grinded for the af to oj n master these weapons will have become wasted. It's not even about resale value. It's about the perception of them being epic born.

I've always been cursed w rng and live poor in the game, so buying decent weapons were for others and if I wanted nice things, I made them. Now with them becoming the new purple, they are pointless, except for the mods.....for now, until even t4s become the new blues.

It's definitely disheartening. I still love my stuff, but if I were to ever pass it on when I leave, would it even be appreciated?

I was always one that would scout purples for potential and even buy from lower ego people if I liked something enough( God knows how much trouble they have selling stuff) but with these changes, that's pretty much done. With no projects, I won't need mods, either scouring vendor specials or finding t3s some kid may have to fill syns. An apathy has set in about this whole business. I just don't care enough to buy into the hype and I sure as hell don't have the scrip or bits to.

With my hobby gone, the broken stuff I can't even do too much of because I'll cap and nothing to spend the af on anyway, since all my stuff will locked, is there even much of a point to keep playing?

I am in the process of figuring out what to do w my stuff if I do go. Maybe a 'tainted oj giveaway'. I know some people that would still take them.

heartbreak_courier
08-07-2015, 01:01 AM
Slightly off topic, but I've read some conflicting reports about supremes. Apparently, only lockbox OJs can be upgraded to supreme so far on PTS, but is the plan to make all natural OJs able to upgrade to supreme? Or just post-patch natural OJs from events/lockboxes?

JOCCO5150
08-07-2015, 01:20 AM
Slightly off topic, but I've read some conflicting reports about supremes. Apparently, only lockbox OJs can be upgraded to supreme so far on PTS, but is the plan to make all natural OJs able to upgrade to supreme? Or just post-patch natural OJs from events/lockboxes?

I believe it's all natty ojs. Since they don't drop on the ground at all, then yes you can only get them from boxes, events such as sieges, dm ark falls, and incursions(not just holiday events), and expeditions.

Untamed1
08-07-2015, 01:36 AM
They should change encryption to allow 2 upgrades. The first upgrade would be partial encryption and the second full encryption. The upgrades cost a lot of arkforge so there is no reason to prevent people spending more arkforge. The more people spend, the more they need and the more likely they are to buy it with bits. This would be a win for the players with upgraded epics and a win for trion to sell more arkforge.

Trion argued before that multiple upgrades reduced the value/rarity of legendary loot, but then went and handed out lots of nearly free legendary loot during the events. Really what happens is that once you get a few legendaries you basically never use anything else ever again. Not having multiple rarity upgrades reduces the value of loot less than legendaries because they will never compete with what you already have. Having multiple upgrades lets veterans "craft" new weapons to keep them interested in the loot chase. This would let people convert epics into supremes, but at a high cost (likely 1000+ arkforge).

Claydough
08-07-2015, 01:57 AM
Ftpers need them so they can over value them and try to rip ppl off even more. i can guarantee that the majority of supreme weapons that are made are gonna be solely for profit instead of personal use. hence why i suggest they become untradeable after upgrade

how selfish? just because you dont trade or enjoy trading doesn't mean you should lock everyone out from trading weapons.

Claydough
08-07-2015, 02:08 AM
and i would 100% stop upgrading purple if this was how the system was going to work.

now im not saying that we are entitled to upgrade purples to sup's, all im saying is in a game where the gear chase is almost the only thing addictive or playable about this, i will not be chasing inferior loot.

and id these supreems are going to be as rare as i think thay are, im sure im going to get quite tired of chasing the top tire loot very very quickly, just as i got bored of chasing oj chips from expo's and have lost all drive to play them these days.

be careful trion, be very carful with how you handle your loot. if people lose drive to get better loot, then with the amount of end game content offered in this game you will find people will just stop playing...
feel free to change the game as you see fit, but know what the loot chase means for people and how these changes are going to affect peoples attitude to the game.

JOCCO5150
08-07-2015, 02:10 AM
Ftpers need them so they can over value them and try to rip ppl off even more. i can guarantee that the majority of supreme weapons that are made are gonna be solely for profit instead of personal use. hence why i suggest they become untradeable after upgrade

Even if they did this, it just means the price of natty ojs would go up.




Edit... which it probably already will

richardkrainium
08-07-2015, 02:37 AM
how selfish? just because you dont trade or enjoy trading doesn't mean you should lock everyone out from trading weapons.

lol....im the largest mod vender on the 360....nope, dont like trading....

locking them up would keep them "special" as they keep referring to them as

konstantinov
08-07-2015, 03:31 AM
The supreme weapon deal reminds me of when they redid the roll system the first time. This time I don't think our weapons will be completely useless or worthless though.

Bentu
08-07-2015, 03:39 AM
Sounds like this thread needs to be moved to the need want forums.
Sales already seem to be slower than ever and as of yet I haven't seen anyone guaranteeing their goods are natural ojs or being prepared to give a money back guarantee if their goods prove to be upgrades.
Yes jackpot and named event weapons are ok but already command a high price for the ones people are after.

konstantinov
08-07-2015, 03:42 AM
Sounds like this thread needs to be moved to the need want forums.
Sales already seem to be slower than ever and as of yet I haven't seen anyone guaranteeing their goods are natural ojs or being prepared to give a money back guarantee if their goods prove to be upgrades.
Yes jackpot and named event weapons are ok but already command a high price for the ones people are after.

Command or demand?

Bentu
08-07-2015, 03:52 AM
Command or demand?

Where I'm from it's command.

Demand can be either the trader demanding a high price or there being a high demand for a rare but much wanted item.

Command seemed like the less controversial.

Claydough
08-07-2015, 03:56 AM
lol....im the largest mod vender on the 360....nope, dont like trading....

locking them up would keep them "special" as they keep referring to them as

who gave you that title?

konstantinov
08-07-2015, 04:05 AM
Where I'm from it's command.

Demand can be either the trader demanding a high price or there being a high demand for a rare but much wanted item.

Command seemed like the less controversial.

I'm just giving you a hard time. I find it easier to command free stuff rather than demand it. Still joking

Logain
08-07-2015, 04:09 AM
Would a solution be this:

Make something a player can use to "unencrypt" a gun. Thus allowing for that gun to be upgraded. It could cost the same to remaster a gun.

Would this be a win win for both sides?

Bentu
08-07-2015, 04:16 AM
Would a solution be this:

Make something a player can use to "unencrypt" a gun. Thus allowing for that gun to be upgraded. It could cost the same to remaster a gun.

Would this be a win win for both sides?

I wouldn't see it as a win win if I'm being double charged.
It's going to cost x amount to unencrypte on top of upgrading to supreme.

Edit. The only win win there is for Trion.

Obvious Obbe
08-07-2015, 05:00 AM
Why do we still have encryption? Wasnt the intention to install encryption so we couldnt roll from green to OJ hoping for multiple DMG or crit rolls? As that isnt possible anymore, why still have encryption? And dont tell me its to stop too many OJs from appearing, every purple i find (and i find alot) i can upgrade to OJ so its not to keep the OJ numbers down. Its gotta go!

Ghost Within
08-07-2015, 05:54 AM
who gave you that title?

I agree with Richard. These supreme weapons will be the death of purples & vets alike. Might as well take our inventories & auto supreme them for us & make them untradable.

I am the Sniper King on Xbox NA by the way. 100+ x3 crit mult & x3 dmg snipers of each one so yes I do a ton of trading & I also want these to be untradable.

konstantinov
08-07-2015, 05:58 AM
I agree with Richard. These supreme weapons will be the death of purples & vets alike. Might as well take our inventories & auto supreme them for us & make them untradable.

I am the Sniper King on Xbox NA by the way. 100+ x3 crit mult & x3 dmg snipers of each one so yes I do a ton of trading & I also want these to be untradable.

If you would have said ARs instead of snipers I may have been impressed.

SanCarioca
08-07-2015, 10:03 AM
Not only that but no will spend 500 Ark Forge to upgrade Epic to Oj again. For the same reason no one upgrades a Blue to Purple. 500 Ark Forge is the biggest Ark Forge price for anything in the game. And this is 500 Ark Forge that players have become accustomed to willingly spend when they get it. And with Epic guns having value to upgrade it happens often. So its stupid of you Trion to snuff that away by diminishing Epic's value.

Its also going to lessen the value of inventory space and trade among players.

As it stands now players come across many Epic tier guns that they hold onto that they deem worthy to want to upgrade to Legendary. And if they are satisfied with the result then that's a gun worth keeping. But if you make Epic the new Blue then all those Epic drops are going to be sold straight to the vendor. Less guns to keep means needing less inventory space.

Nefarious:

You have made a careful and detailed evaluation of this "Supreme Scenario" and it was awesome. The quote above is exactly what has been puzzling me for days. I couldn't understand the business logic of this Trion decision.

Except for one thing: we don't have "the numbers". They do. They know every statistics about their own game. They know the real behavior of players, categorized by types (veterans, new players, patron owners, etc...). We don't. We can only guesstimate, based on our own behaviors.

For example, I am the same player you described above. I have tons of purples in my inventory, that I have invested several times to increase, to carry these purples, that "one day" I will upgrade them to Orange. In *my* head, I'm a profitable customer to Trion.

But do you know how many times I have *actually* spent 500 Arkforge to upgrade a purple to OJ? Like, 5. In 1.5 years. Exactly because it seems too expensive to me, and I'm happy to wait for the next OJ drop to happen, even if it takes months. Also, I really don't feel the excruciating *need* to upgrade my purples to OJs. I use the few OJs I get, and I enjoy mastering my purples in daily missions. I don't care about first places in scores, I suck at PvP and I seldom do trades. In reality, I play Defiance to play with other people, mostly.

But I spend a lot of Arkforge to upgrade *rarities*, since I'm still below 6000, and that cost is relatively inexpensive. So, *perhaps*, Trion realized that most of their players are better inclined to spend *small amounts*, *several times*, than spending *great amounts*, *fewer times*. Actually, I have seen several players elaborate heated arguments about this in the past, but related to prices in the Bit Store ("if you would make them lower, we would spend more!")

So, here's what I'm *thinking* it's gonna happen:

- You're right, Purples will be devaluated by this move. But maybe that's exactly what Trion wants, because not so many people upgrade Purples to OJs as we may think -- exactly because of the cost;

- They can't just reduce the cost of upgrades from Purple to OJs. Not only this would piss off every old player that has already spent forges to upgrade, but also Trion rarely backs down from a decision. Instead, they figure out "another way to do it";

- This will lead for less spending with inventory? Depends. What if OJs drop rates start increasing right after Supremes are introduced? Who would care for purples if that happened? And who would care about the costs we had upgrading older purples to OJs if we could get newer, *better* (upgradeable to Supreme) OJs more easily? With more OJs, you'd still have to purchase inventory;

- And then comes the upgrade to Supreme per se. Instead of charging a fixed amount of 500 Arkforge to upgrade purples to OJs, you would now be able to *gamble* smaller amounts to upgrade OJs to Supreme. "Smaller amounts, more purchases". So, on Trion's side, the "loss" of 500 Arkforges would be compensated by the gambling spent on trying to upgrade OJs to Supreme. On our side, the "loss" of the benefits to upgrade purples to OJs would be compensated by larger (and better) amounts of OJ drops;

The argument above only works if the OJs drop rates really increase after Supremes are introduced. Which is just a complete speculation on my part. But really, it seems the only way this whole change would actually NOT drive away people.

On a more subjective opinion, I'd offer that Trion has a ..."personality", where they don't admit if we're right or wrong about certain things (because of legal issues, I'd guess). You complain about stuff, they don't immediately respond about it, and, months later, "other stuff" happens which is not directly related to what you complained -- but it does compensate what you complained about, in the first place. Seems confusing? But it does make sense to me, in a legal way. It's wishful thinking also, because I do trust these guys are at least trying to do their best, while mangled in all sorts of business decisions we'll never know about.

So I'm establishing the "complaint" part here, and let's see what happens. :)

Please, do NOT take anything I'm saying above as "hey, this guy maybe onto something". I may be completely wrong about this, and Supremes will actually suck. We're just speculating here.

Ghost Within
08-07-2015, 10:10 AM
If you would have said ARs instead of snipers I may have been impressed.

Ars in this game are a joke. Prefer smgs anyday. I have people come to me everyday asking for snipers cause they know I have the best & no ar can touch a snipers dmg so anyway.

Crack
08-07-2015, 10:36 AM
who gave you that title?

If you play on the 360 NA then you know Richard and know he's the goto guy when you need a mod. The title was earned, not given.

Nefarious
08-07-2015, 11:26 AM
Even if they did this, it just means the price of natty ojs would go up.

But how many None Event Ojs actually roll out to be good? The weapon drop itself, weapon rolls, synergy which a lot of the time are back packs, and what nano it has if any.

What Im saying is for the many players who weren't around or didn't really tackle the Events will have to get Natty Ojs through the means of RNG. While the players that were around for the Events have these awesome stat Oj guns on stock ready to roll.


--------------------------

Don't want to quote the whole thing do to taking up page scrolling space.

But those were all excellent counter points.

And I know that on how Supreme works is still up in the air on PTS. But from the recent Dev comments about it seems like this is how its going to work. And with how drops and everything currently operates now Im just trying to lay out all possible futures I can think of on how this can turn out.

Crack
08-07-2015, 11:28 AM
This always circles back around to the same issue "This will allow others to get better gear than what I've got now". Why so much drama over a 5% buff? If a 5% buff was game breaking then anything other than rep weapons, event named, and jps would rendor all their base varients worthless/useless. Thats not the case. I have blast rifles I prefer over my Piper in most cases...yet the Piper is the supreme varient.

Why arent all the people that are against this addition yelling bloody murder about the monthly JPs? They are Supreme versions of whats in you inv now...

I think the underlying bad idea is giving us the ability to upgrade ANYTHING to supreme in the first place. Add a t5 lockbox, charge us 100 keys to buy, guarentee us 3 purps and at least 1 oj with a chance at a supremes.

Chump Norris
08-07-2015, 12:08 PM
This always circles back around to the same issue "This will allow others to get better gear than what I've got now". Why so much drama over a 5% buff? If a 5% buff was game breaking then anything other than rep weapons, event named, and jps would rendor all their base varients worthless/useless. Thats not the case. I have blast rifles I prefer over my Piper in most cases...yet the Piper is the supreme varient.

Why arent all the people that are against this addition yelling bloody murder about the monthly JPs? They are Supreme versions of whats in you inv now...

I think the underlying bad idea is giving us the ability to upgrade ANYTHING to supreme in the first place. Add a t5 lockbox, charge us 100 keys to buy, guarentee us 3 purps and at least 1 oj with a chance at a supremes.

Supreme weapons also get an extra roll.

Grandpa Ace
08-07-2015, 12:08 PM
So Im checking up on the PTS forum looking to see what changes might have taken place or what players have discovered. And came across this thread http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?221166-Screenshot-request-of-certain-supreme-weapons&p=1803270#post1803270


Trion, as much as you like to think that Supreme rarity is going to be some special snow flake its not. Before week 1 is over after Supreme goes live many players will have up to 10 or more weapons in Supreme rarity do to the Event weapons.

This will leave one half of the community with Supreme weapons; versions of guns that are already some of the best and will be getting upgraded to be even better. While the other half of the community which consists of new or very casual players will not be getting Supreme guns at all because they will be in the position where getting a Natty Oj worth investing in would be rare occurrence.

This is why Epic Born guns upgraded to Legendary should be able to upgrade to Supreme. So newer and all players can look to get fair shake to be able to match up. Just as it's currently now with players upgrading Epic to Oj.

Not only that but no will spend 500 Ark Forge to upgrade Epic to Oj again. For the same reason no one upgrades a Blue to Purple. 500 Ark Forge is the biggest Ark Forge price for anything in the game. And this is 500 Ark Forge that players have become accustomed to willingly spend when they get it. And with Epic guns having value to upgrade it happens often. So its stupid of you Trion to snuff that away by diminishing Epic's value.

Its also going to lessen the value of inventory space and trade among players.

As it stands now players come across many Epic tier guns that they hold onto that they deem worthy to want to upgrade to Legendary. But if not and Orange becomes the new Purple just to try and make Supreme special when it wont be then all the good stuff we know of takes a big hit and a lot of players become disgruntled. And then we can go down that road and see how that pans out. Im not going anywhere. But I don't want to say 'I told you so' if it all breaks down like this.


I cut out some of the points Naferious made; however, he is correct in his thinking. Many of us have taken or saved epic weapons, built them up to where we need them, only to have the weapons we raised from epic to Legendary--be stuck in the proverbial limbo and become the "new Epic" because they can't be upgraded a second time to Supreme.

TRION, you really need to rethink this strategy. One should be able to take their weapons at least two notches in their evolution. This helps us keep and use our favorite weapons--but also helps TRION make their goal of selling more Arkforge and Patron's Passes. Not allowing a two tier capability will only drive us away even farther, and many of your special Lock Boxes will also lose money because payers will not want to take the chance of spending real money (bits) to by these boxes with only a slightly better chance of getting a Legendary weapon that is not as good as some they have built.

Just my two cents worth,
GPA

Iceberg
08-07-2015, 12:11 PM
So hate to ask, but what is a natty?

Chump Norris
08-07-2015, 12:14 PM
So hate to ask, but what is a natty?

A disgusting beer with a somewhat high alcohol content that is relatively cheap.

natty=natural meaning it wasn't upgraded.

Iceberg
08-07-2015, 12:18 PM
A disgusting beer with a somewhat high alcohol content that is relatively cheap.

natty=natural meaning it wasn't upgraded.

Oh, trying to learn this new lingo from todays generation is getting harder and harder.

Nefarious
08-07-2015, 12:49 PM
So hate to ask, but what is a natty?

Natty means Natural. Ojs that can upgrade to Supreme. Just rolls off the tongue better. "Selling Natty Oj's".

Then someone else coined up the phrase Epic Born. A Weapon that started off as an Epic that upgraded to Legendary making it exempt from being able to upgrade to Supreme. "Is it an Epic Born Oj? If so I aint buying that shet!".

Dixie Cougar
08-07-2015, 01:05 PM
I cut out some of the points Naferious made; however, he is correct in his thinking. Many of us have taken or saved epic weapons, built them up to where we need them, only to have the weapons we raised from epic to Legendary--be stuck in the proverbial limbo and become the "new Epic" because they can't be upgraded a second time to Supreme.

TRION, you really need to rethink this strategy. One should be able to take their weapons at least two notches in their evolution. This helps us keep and use our favorite weapons--but also helps TRION make their goal of selling more Arkforge and Patron's Passes. Not allowing a two tier capability will only drive us away even farther, and many of your special Lock Boxes will also lose money because payers will not want to take the chance of spending real money (bits) to by these boxes with only a slightly better chance of getting a Legendary weapon that is not as good as some they have built.

Just my two cents worth,
GPA

I agree with all of GPA's post. Well said.

Considering the arkforge cost of the upgrades, I don't think there's a great balance risk to someone turning a green into a purple, or a blue into an orange. Going from purple to yellow seems even more imperative because we've all acted on the knowledge that orange is the highest tier and traded with each other/spent real money (in my case just PP, but for others the bit store or the ark hunter bundles) accordingly.

As I've said elsewhere (http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?220093-Details-on-surpreme-weapons-from-PTS&p=1802634&viewfull=1#post1802634), time gating the supreme upgrade could keep introduction of higher tier weapons to a manageable level while still allowing a wide range of player choices.

xXxDSMer
08-07-2015, 02:40 PM
Epic Born guns upgraded to Legendary should be able to upgrade to Supreme.

Nefarious
08-07-2015, 02:44 PM
Epic Born guns upgraded to Legendary should be able to upgrade to Supreme.

I think Ive read that somewhere. Someone said it, idk who.

Crack
08-07-2015, 02:52 PM
Supreme weapons also get an extra roll.

For sure, but still based on the new balanced roll system though...so again, a very small percentage increase yet a "Sky is falling...Im gonna quit." reaction to its introduction.

Nefarious
08-07-2015, 03:11 PM
For sure, but still based on the new balanced roll system though...so again, a very small percentage increase yet a "Sky is falling...Im gonna quit." reaction to its introduction.

Yeah, maybe its a small percentage itself but Defiance keeps on moving further and further away on the idea the game was built on. At first it was players could jump in and play with their friends whenever wherever. Back then the only thing really separating players power was the small %'s gear gave and the small %'s characters earned from weapon experience. But low level players could still come out on top do to just being better or more savvy.


Then threat levels were introduced along with player and gear power scaling. Then cyber rigs to add more %'s. Now a new rarity tier to add even more. All while the game tries to keep players fighting side by side evenly in the same events.

If Defiance is going to go this route then fine. But don't do it backwards by adding more power to the players first then fixing threat levels and enemies second. And Defiance always has done it this way in adding things high which can potentially be over powered which then need to be scaled back or have to introduce something else to help balance that because no one wants 'Nerfs'. Instead of adding things on low side and then buffing them accordingly to help balance them.

unfortunate1
08-07-2015, 03:30 PM
Thanks for posting this Nef. It is so great. Not to mention, it makes my life much easier identifying exactly who is opposed to this. Thanks to all the players who are trying to come up with solutions.

Crack
08-07-2015, 03:46 PM
Yeah, maybe its a small percentage itself but Defiance keeps on moving further and further away on the idea the game was built on. At first it was players could jump in and play with their friends whenever wherever. Back then the only thing really separating players power was the small %'s gear gave and the small %'s characters earned from weapon experience. But low level players could still come out on top do to just being better or more savvy.


Then threat levels were introduced along with player and gear power scaling. Then cyber rigs to add more %'s. Now a new rarity tier to add even more. All while the game tries to keep players fighting side by side evenly in the same events.

If Defiance is going to go this route then fine. But don't do it backwards by adding more power to the players first then fixing threat levels and enemies second. And Defiance always has done it this way in adding things high which can potentially be over powered which then need to be scaled back or have to introduce something else to help balance that because no one wants 'Nerfs'. Instead of adding things on low side and then buffing them accordingly to help balance them.

Oh dont get me start on the threat level patch with the power scaling...I hated the idea before they went this route and I still hate it. Its never worked properly. I have a low level toon (e500's) on the EU and even at threat level 1 I get my butt kicked. Destroying a single Evangel solo at low ego should grant you 500 ego and a jp weapon of choice. Lol

As far as balance, this topic could easily be had about 80% of the gear in game. If they were to dps test every weapon for one minute and eliminate everything outside the top 10, I bet you a scrip that 99% of us wouldnt be missing anything from our primary loadouts.

Ray8888
08-07-2015, 03:49 PM
Not to mention, it makes my life much easier identifying exactly who is opposed to this.

To what end?
[Puts on tinfoil hat]

Bonehead
08-07-2015, 04:04 PM
Supreme weapons aren't bad per se.

They are the natural outcome of not being able to upgrade natty OJs.

Just is what it is and the direction from whence the future wind blows.

Just wait 'till the Scarlet Blade tie in missions when they launch in Korea!

Bentu
08-07-2015, 04:25 PM
Supreme weapons aren't bad per se.

I agree but feel they should be a totally separate reward from jackpot or bits store lock boxes.
Leave the upgrading rarity at legendary and everyone is happy.

Mrdr
08-07-2015, 04:33 PM
To what end?
[Puts on tinfoil hat]

Lmao

/10 char

xXxDSMer
08-08-2015, 12:44 AM
I think Ive read that somewhere. Someone said it, idk who.

I'd already said the same thought several times before reading your OP here. me pasting that bit of text is me saying you nailed it in the OP.