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Kalok
09-03-2015, 03:15 AM
Ok I have a Few questions, as its unclear as to what will happen.

I have a Fates Kiss and a Ghost Duster which I am both very happy with. The Lure of a Supreme is nice but how were the weapon pools set up. Based on the Model of the weapon, or the Actual Weapon itself.

1. FRC Assault Carbine in Oj VS Fates Kiss to Supreme. Will Fates Have A Different Name with different damage bonus rolls?

2. Same question on Ghost Duster and its generic.

I know it says on upgrade all previous rolls will be reset but based on what. The Model or the actual weapon

SaikoTeek
09-03-2015, 03:32 AM
Ok I have a Few questions, as its unclear as to what will happen.

I have a Fates Kiss and a Ghost Duster which I am both very happy with. The Lure of a Supreme is nice but how were the weapon pools set up. Based on the Model of the weapon, or the Actual Weapon itself.

1. FRC Assault Carbine in Oj VS Fates Kiss to Supreme. Will Fates Have A Different Name with different damage bonus rolls?

2. Same question on Ghost Duster and its generic.

I know it says on upgrade all previous rolls will be reset but based on what. The Model or the actual weapon

If you supreme a named gun, every current roll moves up one tier and you get a new white roll.

Kalok
09-03-2015, 03:43 AM
If you supreme a named gun, every current roll moves up one tier and you get a new white roll.

Thank you very much

hempman
09-03-2015, 03:44 AM
once you make a supreme,and those rolls move up,can you tweak anything further?
say change the blue or purp rollwise or is that it,done,finito??

xXxDSMer
09-03-2015, 04:48 AM
If you supreme a named gun, every current roll moves up one tier and you get a new white roll.

Correct, except purple rolls stay where they are (even if its a x0.60 recoil, or x0.90 accuracy, or any other non-standard purple roll... all purple rolls stay purple)

------------------------------

Regarding "generic" in the op: which would be what's called "random weapon" (like: FRC Assault Carbine and VBI Assault Rifle): when a random weapon is supremed:

If it is current roll system: it will get a random supreme roll like damage crit etc. It can be something that's already on a lower tier, but the lower tier same effect will get rerolled to something else (like a blue damage oj turned supreme... it can get supreme damage but the blue damage will be rerolled to something else.)

If it's prior roll system: ALL rolls stay where and how they are. The supreme roll will be one of the new epic rolls.

either way: any upgraded weapon gets the +5% damage for rarity increase. (this also applies to named weapons / jackpots, like fates kiss & duster.)

---------------------------


once you make a supreme,and those rolls move up,can you tweak anything further?
say change the blue or purp rollwise or is that it,done,finito??

Rolls moving up in the aforementioned fashion only applies to named / jackpot.
So for named/jackpot:
If they're tier bouns rerolled as an oj - they will be reset just like doing reset tier bonus, automatically, as part of the successful upgrade to supreme.
But after successful upgrade to supreme - they CAN be "tweaked" (as in rerolling tier bonus just like was possible when the weapon was still an OJ).


And just for the sake of thorough-ness lol...
"random" weapons (not named, or jackpot):
Possibility 1: I'm not 100% certain here, but I'm pretty sure if... say... oj is rerolled to damage, then the weapon's upgraded to supreme: it should only reset/unlock that orange roll if it happens to roll supreme damage. Otherwise the locked oj damage should stay there.
Possibility 2: Then again the game might consider that locked 1.12 oj damage untouchable and we'd basically be locking ourselves out of the possibility for supreme damage on a random weapon.

I'm hoping it was coded to possibility 1 above, not possibility 2. BUT... whichever possibility is reality: it would still be possible to reroll tier bonus on an upgraded to supreme random weapon, and it would still be possible to reset tier bouns back to the weapon's default rolls (whatever random rolls the random weapon happens to have).

Ray8888
09-03-2015, 05:14 AM
Correct, except purple rolls stay where they are (even if its a x0.60 recoil, or x0.90 accuracy, or any other non-standard purple roll... all purple rolls stay purple)

So here is my question. If I re-roll the purp roll first and THEN supreme it will the purp roll go back to the old roll or the new one? Like you said it doesnt touch it even if there is an OJ roll available (I am 100% sure of this because I Supremed my Warmonger and the purp stayed at ACC). So for example if I rolled my Precious purp to Durability DMG and later on decided to Supreme it would it go back to the EGO boost? I would think it wouldnt, why code for the purp roll if it doesnt change? But if its just a static roll re-issuing of the gun (if its coded like a drop in an Expo) then we are technically getting a whole new gun. Since it keeps the mastery I would think it would be the first scenario, where it ignores the purp roll. But everybody I talk to seems to think it goes back to the old roll.

xXxDSMer
09-03-2015, 05:43 AM
So here is my question. If I re-roll the purp roll first and THEN supreme it will the purp roll go back to the old roll or the new one? Like you said it doesnt touch it even if there is an OJ roll available (I am 100% sure of this because I Supremed my Warmonger and the purp stayed at ACC). So for example if I rolled my Precious purp to Durability DMG and later on decided to Supreme it would it go back to the EGO boost? I would think it wouldnt, why code for the purp roll if it doesnt change? But if its just a static roll re-issuing of the gun (if its coded like a drop in an Expo) then we are technically getting a whole new gun. Since it keeps the mastery I would think it would be the first scenario, where it ignores the purp roll. But everybody I talk to seems to think it goes back to the old roll.

9307 <--- As I figured would be the case: yep purple gets reset on successful supreme upgrade. (done on pts)

Ray8888
09-03-2015, 06:13 AM
Bummer.
But thanks Rob.

cmpowell
09-03-2015, 06:30 AM
Any roll you change before you supreme a set roll weapon gets reset incase someone thinks it's just the epic

eaglepowers
09-03-2015, 06:43 AM
9307 <--- As I figured would be the case: yep purple gets reset on successful supreme upgrade. (done on pts)

From my experience all named weapons reset all their rolls when upgraded to a default supreme stat just as you shown if you re roll it prior to supreming.

For non named weapons, it doesn't seem to reset the previously changed tier, haven't tried epic though, but several tiers can shuffle around excluding the epic. I think I read that people were having a problem w/ the epic resetting or something upon upgrading?

All my experimenting was done on live. I've bonus tier changed, re rolled, 2 regular weapons and 1 named prior to supreming.

Ray8888
09-03-2015, 06:47 AM
From my experience all named weapons reset all their rolls when upgraded to a default supreme stat just as you shown.

No. That's what we are discussing. The purp does NOT change when you supreme a named. The what if was about re rolling it prior to supreming. And it was answered.

eaglepowers
09-03-2015, 07:00 AM
No. That's what we are discussing. The purp does NOT change when you supreme a named. The what if was about re rolling it prior to supreming. And it was answered.

I edited my post to try and be more clear. Everything in my post is in regards to re rolling a weapon prior to supreming named vs non named. Everything I've done was on live.

Smokey Black
09-03-2015, 07:01 AM
No. That's what we are discussing. The purp does NOT change when you supreme a named. The what if was about re rolling it prior to supreming. And it was answered.

Since it Doesn't change you can supreme first then reroll the purp and it will cost the same as rerollIng the purp roll on the oj. Best to play it safe.

Ray8888
09-03-2015, 07:09 AM
Since it Doesn't change you can supreme first then reroll the purp and it will cost the same as rerollIng the purp roll on the oj. Best to play it safe.

Was kinda the whole point of asking.

Rashere
09-03-2015, 10:51 AM
From my experience all named weapons reset all their rolls when upgraded to a default supreme stat just as you shown if you re roll it prior to supreming.

For non named weapons, it doesn't seem to reset the previously changed tier, haven't tried epic though, but several tiers can shuffle around excluding the epic. I think I read that people were having a problem w/ the epic resetting or something upon upgrading?

All my experimenting was done on live. I've bonus tier changed, re rolled, 2 regular weapons and 1 named prior to supreming.

This is accurate. Effectively, when you are upgrading a named/jackpot weapon, you're getting a whole new gun with all new rolls (that just happen to be the legendary rolls, one tier up in most cases). The only way for that to work is to start from scratch. When upgrading a random weapon, though, the supreme tier bonus is assigned randomly using the normal upgrade rules so there's no need to remove the effects of previous rerolls.

xXxDSMer
09-03-2015, 03:05 PM
This is accurate. Effectively, when you are upgrading a named/jackpot weapon, you're getting a whole new gun with all new rolls (that just happen to be the legendary rolls, one tier up in most cases). The only way for that to work is to start from scratch. When upgrading a random weapon, though, the supreme tier bonus is assigned randomly using the normal upgrade rules so there's no need to remove the effects of previous rerolls.

Do those normal upgrade rules apply even with the lock?
For example: say a weapon is rerolled to orange damage. Is it still possible for the weapon to roll supreme damage on upgrade and the orange damage get unlocked (either reverting back to what the natural roll is, or getting rerolled to something else)?
But otherwise, that rerolled orange damage would stay locked, and damage?
(naturally this question applies to current roll system weapons since prior roll system gets epic and keeps all rolls)

Rashere
09-03-2015, 03:48 PM
Do those normal upgrade rules apply even with the lock?
For example: say a weapon is rerolled to orange damage. Is it still possible for the weapon to roll supreme damage on upgrade and the orange damage get unlocked (either reverting back to what the natural roll is, or getting rerolled to something else)?
But otherwise, that rerolled orange damage would stay locked, and damage?
(naturally this question applies to current roll system weapons since prior roll system gets epic and keeps all rolls)

Great question. I had to go look into it and it doesn't do anything special, which is actually kind of weird. If the supreme bonus duplicates the bonus that is under a locked tier, that bonus will be rerolled and the tier remains locked.

To unlock the tier, you'd have to reset the weapon manually. I'm not a fan of that and will get a bug in to make it unlock the tier in the case where that happens.

Good find.

hempman
09-03-2015, 05:14 PM
this is a great thread,but is there like a how-to supreme for dummies topic anywheres?
this is very confusing stuff about when to roll,reroll,what rolls etc etc.
having wasted all my af again trying to roll a supreme,i figured it might be a good time to ask...

xXxDSMer
09-05-2015, 02:29 AM
Great question. I had to go look into it and it doesn't do anything special, which is actually kind of weird. If the supreme bonus duplicates the bonus that is under a locked tier, that bonus will be rerolled and the tier remains locked.

To unlock the tier, you'd have to reset the weapon manually. I'm not a fan of that and will get a bug in to make it unlock the tier in the case where that happens.

Good find.

whoooooa put on the brakes. That's actually not the scenario I was thinking of... but now that you mention it I have multiple different bits of input lol


Need to add a bit to the hypothetical weapon from my previous post:
Orange is rerolled to damage as stated before.
Adding: default orange roll is fire rate.
Then upgrade weapon to supreme, and supreme happens to roll fire rate.
The default orange roll of fire rate does need to be rerolled to something else in case of reset tier bonus to prevent double fire rate rolls...
but the locked damage roll doesn't have to be removed because supreme didn't roll damage - there are no duplicate damage rolls.
Changing to the behavior you're talking about, in this case, would be an extremely high chance of straight up removing damage roll from the weapon - because what's the chances the default roll will get rolled to damage? lol.

I think when supreme rolls the default roll of a rerolled (locked) lower tier, the locked bonus should stay.
In this example a locked orange damage staying on top of whatever the new default orange roll is.
Even if that new default roll happens to be damage, but especially if it doesn't happen to be damage. Either way: the upper/locked orange roll should stay as is because supreme didn't roll the same thing as that upper locked orange roll.

--------------------------

Now... hypothetically, with the behavior of the locked roll staying there regardless of what happens with the roll under it due to supreme rolling the same as the under roll...
that could create an "all defaults" condition where reset tier bonus isn't available, but the lock is still there, and it normally costs another dose of arkforge on the locked tier JUST to re-enable the option 'reset tier bonus'

Or another much more common and likely to happen scenario that can create an all defaults condition, where reset tier bonus isn't available,
I have a FRC Heavy Assault carbine:
x1.03dmg
x0.85reload
x1.25crit

At first, I decide I want to change the green roll to something else, so I roll green:
x1.03dmg
x0.75recoil(locked)
x1.25crit

eh... don't need recoil on this heavy with the t4 external, so I roll green again:
x1.03dmg
x0.80reload(locked)
x1.25crit

Then decide to roll blue instead, and go to reset tier bonus to remove the lock, but the option is not there at all - even though there would be absolutely nothing lost, aside from the lock (which in this case is *wanted* gone) because the weapon is fully at its defaults.

But with this behaving as it does now - we have to spend another dose of arkforge JUST to reset tier bonus and get rid of the lock... when resetting tier bonus is supposed to be free (not cost another dose of arkforge just to get rid of the lock lol).

IMO: we should be able to remove the lock regardless of what the rolls are.
That not being able to reset tier bonus just because the roll under and above are the same roll - can sting quite a lot when rerolling purple, oj, or supreme... and having to spend an additional 20, 50, 125(?), or 250 forge to roll again *just* to re-enable the option to reset tier bonus - isn't cool.

Could this behavior be changed to where we can reset tier bonus any time any rolls?

The only scenario I was able to come up with on pts just now, for reset tier bonus not available, was when all rolls matched their defaults (lower tiers had not been changed by rerolling)... so the weapon's already at default. Don't see why we can't just knock the lock off without having to spend forge again :)

========================

Now on to the original thought I had about a locked orange roll weapon upgraded to supreme:
- Default oj roll on hypothetical weapon is fire rate.
- Locked oj roll on hypothetical weapon is damage.
- hypothetical weapon successfully upgraded to supreme, and rolls supreme damage

Question: is it possible for supreme to roll damage, while orange is rerolled *to* damage? (the oj damage roll being the 'upper', or locked, roll - while the weapon's an oj.)

Continuing on, with the assumption that it is possible to roll supreme damage with an orange roll that was rerolled to damage prior to successful supreme upgrade:

Now that supreme has rolled damage, that orange roll has to change. Does the weapon behave as expected and lose the orange lock? either simply allowing the default orange roll to come back up, or by removing the locked damage and rerolling the default orange roll?

This situation, where supreme rolls the same thing as the "upper", or locked, roll - is the situation I can think of that I believe the lock should be removed, to allow that damage to move up to supreme - this is what I was actually asking about at first (along with if it's even possible to roll supreme damage while orange is rerolled to damage)

===========================

In summary:
on a random weapon,
when orange default =/= orange rerolled,
and if supreme = orange default,
then orange default rerolled and lock should probably stay, since supreme =/= orange rerolled

if all rolls = default rolls, then leave reset tier bonus enabled with effect of simply knocking off the lock since weapon is already at defaults (perhaps also sweep off the copied roll from the top of the default roll)

and:
when orange default =/= orange rerolled,
and if supreme = orange rerolled,
then orange lock destroyed by that same roll bonus being on the higher tier, either allowing original default orange to resurface, or by forcing a total reroll of orange since supreme=OldOrangeLocked


While summarizing, I thought of a fourth thing: Player rolls orange more than once and ends up with: orange rerolled = orange default, then supremes the weapon.
In this particular case:
when orange locked = orange default,
and when supremed, new t6 roll = orange locked & orange default,
then treat entire orange roll as a single combined roll - reroll entire tier regardless of lock, since supreme took the old oj roll, and subsequently removing the lock
(because system initiated reroll, and because supreme stole the oj roll)

PTR47
09-05-2015, 04:59 AM
No. That's what we are discussing. The purp does NOT change when you supreme a named. The what if was about re rolling it prior to supreming. And it was answered.

Incorrect.

I have upgraded one gun: the piper. The purple roll changed.

hempman
09-05-2015, 08:07 AM
this is a great thread,but is there like a how-to supreme for dummies topic anywheres?
this is very confusing stuff about when to roll,reroll,what rolls etc etc.
having wasted all my af again trying to roll a supreme,i figured it might be a good time to ask...

taps the window..hello??

xXxDSMer
09-05-2015, 04:44 PM
Incorrect.

I have upgraded one gun: the piper. The purple roll changed.

Not quite.
The only time the purple roll would change on a piper is when upgrading a piper mk1 to a supreme piper mk2 - which is an entirely new weapon, and new roll system.

It just happens to keep the mastery it had as an OJ, until the mastery is reset by the player (if ever)

xXxDSMer
09-05-2015, 04:51 PM
this is a great thread,but is there like a how-to supreme for dummies topic anywheres?
this is very confusing stuff about when to roll,reroll,what rolls etc etc.
having wasted all my af again trying to roll a supreme,i figured it might be a good time to ask...

taps the window..hello??

Didn't you see the sign "no tapping on the glass?" :P

Far as when to reroll, if its a named/jp weapon and you're going to upgrade it to supreme - don't reroll rolls before upgrading it to supreme because the roll rerolls will be reset when the weapon successfully upgrades to supreme.

Far as what roll to reroll - that's all up to you, and your preferences.
Have a weapon with blue damage and no recoil roll? Do *you* want to go for a recoil roll, or try for orange damage and have slim to no chance of getting a recoil roll when that blue damage gets pulled up to orange?
Have a crit heavy weapon with no crit roll? Do you want to go for more damage or do you want to roll a tier to add a crit roll? - its literally all up to you lol.

far as upgrading to supreme: it's all RNG, unless you spend 3300 forge for a 100% chance to upgrade. There are some theories floating around the forums about using the lower % chances - but that's probably all they are: theories. (not hard fact, and certainly not from official sources)

PTR47
09-05-2015, 05:31 PM
Not quite.
The only time the purple roll would change on a piper is when upgrading a piper mk1 to a supreme piper mk2 - which is an entirely new weapon, and new roll system.

It just happens to keep the mastery it had as an OJ, until the mastery is reset by the player (if ever)

Ah. Maybe it was a MKI. I thought it was a MKII but that makes sense.