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Loh Book
11-18-2015, 03:20 PM
I had a bio casti springer oj,with T5 Pb for sale trade. i was approached by the clan founder and he/she asked what i wanted for it. I said T5 mod and a weapon. I asked if they had any Cymatic Enpower gear. He/she said yes purple pulser, unmodded. I asked T5 mod + purple CE pulser. sure was the response. He/she switched toons and opened trade window, loaded my modd and i loaded the casti. I waited and thought, where is my pulser? aghhh its on his other toon. Once out of trade i asked he/she where the pulser was. O let me look on my storage toon. Next thing I get a sob story saying he/she broke it down and would submit a ticket for the recovery of it. yesterday i got a pm, O I got that pulser back. opened trade window and went to get it and he/she did not trade it. Then the clan founder expressed he would never have traded a purple ce weapon for oj casti springer. Can I do anything about this or chalk it up to he/she a fraud and leave it? or submit a ticket for recovery of weapon? thanks

Bentu
11-18-2015, 03:24 PM
It's up to you what action you take but you're obviously pissed to bring it here so I'd suggest putting in a ticket if the founder refuses to return the item.

Olaf
11-18-2015, 03:38 PM
Pointless submitting a ticket. Trion will do NOTHING. Best to just take it as a painful lesson and leave the clan.

CraftyRhtHander
11-18-2015, 03:41 PM
Have u been in that clan long - i dont think trion will/can help but that blows

Bentu
11-18-2015, 03:41 PM
Pointless submitting a ticket. Trion will do NOTHING. Best to just take it as a painful lesson and leave the clan.

They have been known to return items fraudulently acquired.

Olaf
11-18-2015, 03:45 PM
They have been known to return items fraudulently acquired.

Not that I've heard of. I hear scammers are running rampant on xbox with no fear of reprimand (for months now iirc)

CraftyRhtHander
11-18-2015, 03:50 PM
They have been known to return items fraudulently acquired.

This wouldnt be fraudulent in trion eyes since the trade was accepted in the trade window. They dont even take action when screen shots of xbl messages agreeing to things is presented there is no way they would do anything here based on evidence presented - still sucks though

Bentu
11-18-2015, 04:27 PM
Not that I've heard of. I hear scammers are running rampant on xbox with no fear of reprimand (for months now iirc)

There has been a couple of scammer threads where gear has been returned.
Obviously support have priorities.


This wouldnt be fraudulent in trion eyes since the trade was accepted in the trade window. They dont even take action when screen shots of xbl messages agreeing to things is presented there is no way they would do anything here based on evidence presented - still sucks though

If the guy hasn't received what he was promised then to me it's a fraudulent transaction unless I've read it wrong.

Claydough
11-18-2015, 05:16 PM
Dev will not touch unsupported trades ingame, meaning if you are trading arkforge or RL money for somthing, devs will steer clear of any responcibility and leave everything up to the players to work out their differences.

However, i have seen cases like this be sorted out by the dev team loh. All chat logs can be pulled up and they will se exactally what was agreed on and hopefully all will be put right...

It could be a simple misunderstanding between you two. Both of you are good long term players, its suprising to me that it would have come to this.

I would start with a pm to ocho and he will either look into it, or direct you to support.

Ocho
11-18-2015, 05:36 PM
Dev will not touch unsupported trades ingame, meaning if you are trading arkforge or RL money for somthing, devs will steer clear of any responcibility and leave everything up to the players to work out their differences.

However, i have seen cases like this be sorted out by the dev team loh. All chat logs can be pulled up and they will se exactally what was agreed on and hopefully all will be put right...

It could be a simple misunderstanding between you two. Both of you are good long term players, its suprising to me that it would have come to this.

I would start with a pm to ocho and he will either look into it, or direct you to support.

Support is the best option. Unsecured trades (i.e. anything other than all agreed upon items in the trade window) are very problematic, and our CS team will investigate, but those sorts of tickets are always lower priority than folks who have critical issues preventing them from playing for instance.

If you do choose to engage in unsecured trading (not something we encourage), make sure everything is explicitly spelled out in game chat so it leaves a log. "But he told me in teamspeak that he would..." means that there is very little proof that our team can find.

crazyged
11-19-2015, 04:29 AM
Just to set the record straight, it was my clan - I am the founder.

The person in question is a leader.

I wasn't around for a good few days when this happened (connection problems), but rest assured, I'm going to do my best to find out what actually happened.

And what Ocho said - the chat logs will help clear up any confusion.

Johnny Stranger
11-19-2015, 05:15 AM
Support is the best option. Unsecured trades (i.e. anything other than all agreed upon items in the trade window) are very problematic, and our CS team will investigate, but those sorts of tickets are always lower priority than folks who have critical issues preventing them from playing for instance.

If you do choose to engage in unsecured trading (not something we encourage), make sure everything is explicitly spelled out in game chat so it leaves a log. "But he told me in teamspeak that he would..." means that there is very little proof that our team can find.

not something you encourage, yet I am instructed to by a dev to trade my supreme mincemeat to a trusted person to transfer to my higher ego toon (which the gun should have been placed on in the first place)...hmmm..OK LOL

hempman
11-19-2015, 05:17 AM
Not that I've heard of. I hear scammers are running rampant on xbox with no fear of reprimand (for months now iirc)
Fear?
Ha,they BRAG about the people and weapons they have scammed in gamechat!!
i have some lovely screenshots from just last week even!!
they BRAG about how trion Wont do Anything to Them!
i also have a list of 5 names that should have been banned from the game a Year ago,
but hey,they all still here!!!!
even tho they were reported with proof.

best part is this,people who play this game,buy stuff with Real Money,and then get scammed.
wheres the so called scammer/buster team on all this?
just for one minute,Think about how a new player feels,after hes bought stuff w real money,
only to get ripped off by a pro player whos a pro scammer too.

Bentu
11-19-2015, 07:33 AM
Yeah support can't help them if they've spent real money.

stefb42
11-19-2015, 10:29 AM
Yeah support can't help them if they've spent real money.

I think he means using real cash to buy bits then paid boxes only to be scammed, only a fool would pay another player with real cash

Bentu
11-19-2015, 10:32 AM
I think he means using real cash to buy bits then paid boxes only to be scammed, only a fool would pay another player with real cash

Well it reads to me like the latter, as in the newb being scammed by the vet.

stefb42
11-19-2015, 10:48 AM
Ah I always considered myself to be spending real cash when I buy bits then spend them in store, I assume they meant the same as paying another player cash for items is against toc, which isn't going to gain any developer sympathy on the official forums

SaikoTeek
11-19-2015, 12:58 PM
not something you encourage, yet I am instructed to by a dev to trade my supreme mincemeat to a trusted person to transfer to my higher ego toon (which the gun should have been placed on in the first place)...hmmm..OK LOL

You'll always have me as your mule Johnny.

Mint
11-19-2015, 04:56 PM
The player Loh Book is speaking of is me. I am a Leader in the clan and not actually the Founder. I have been in game practically since the start. I like to think myself as an honest person, I have had people pass on Jackpot items to me for me to pass onto their alternate characters with not a single problem. I have always traded fairly and this incident is a misunderstanding that I tried to rectify with Loh Book prior to his decision to leave the clan.

Firstly, I'd like to apologise to Loh Book for any misunderstanding. Secondly, I notice that Loh Book did not mention the fact that I offered the Springer back to him and by way of apology for any misunderstanding, informed him that he could keep the T5 mod that I traded to him, truly believing that was in fact the arrangement we had made prior to trading.

Loh told me to keep the Springer and he immediately left the clan. I tried to message him after he left the clan to try and resolve the situation but he was offline or has muted me.

So just to clarify, even after Loh Books vicious and damned right outrageous comment about how I'm a fraud, and not telling the full story, I AM STILL prepared to return Loh Books Springer to him! As for my CE Pulser, I at no point suggested in any way that my CE Pulser was up for sale or trade, because to be honest, why would I trade away a weapon when I paid RL money to buy the crate that the Pulser came from, especially for a weapon that I can easily obtain without spending a single bit on crates!

hempman
11-19-2015, 05:22 PM
because springers dont fall out of the sky.
what struck me the most,was how casually the trade was explained away.
so,he traded you a t5pb,easily one of the most expensive mods,sought after by All,
And the OJ springer,for a t5 mod??
thats what we are told?

what was this t5 mod that was worth a t5 pb and a OJ springer?
im just curious,because this doesnt sound like a fair trade in any way at any time and id like to learn.

it Looks like he expected to get a t5 and a purple ce pulsar for a Oj weapon with a t5 pb on it.

Mint
11-19-2015, 06:18 PM
because springers dont fall out of the sky.
what struck me the most,was how casually the trade was explained away.
so,he traded you a t5pb,easily one of the most expensive mods,sought after by All,
And the OJ springer,for a t5 mod??
thats what we are told?

what was this t5 mod that was worth a t5 pb and a OJ springer?
im just curious,because this doesnt sound like a fair trade in any way at any time and id like to learn.

it Looks like he expected to get a t5 and a purple ce pulsar for a Oj weapon with a t5 pb on it.

T5 PB is one of the most expensive and sought after mods for F2P players! A T5 PB costs the same as any other T5 mod, 10 Cores! At the time, I had 60 cores saved up on my main and 15 or so on my alt.

In reply to your comment about what Loh was expecting, When I learned that Loh was expecting to receive the CE Pulser from me, I informed him that I had no idea that was in ANY way part of the deal we had made and immediately told him so and right away explained to him that he should take the Springer back and he could keep the T5 mod.

If anyone should feel hard done by, it surely should be me after losing out on a T5 mod trying to rectify the misunderstanding and having someone publicly calling me a fraud (ok so he didn't name names, but I still replied to the post, and wish to bring this situation to a conclusion) Where's the fraud in trying to return his weapon at a loss of 10 cores and 10 rep as soon as the situation started?

The trade agreement was based upon the understanding that Loh Book was eager to get the T5 mod in question after the FACT I had enquired about the Springer which led to the discussion of the T5 mod! There's no way I would have agreed to any trade that involved the CE Pulser, and I am trying now as I did at the time to put this situation right.

"thats what we are told?"

I don't understand who this "we" are, I don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else! I've presented my side of the situation based on the FACTS!

As stated in my original reply, the Springer is ready for Loh to collect!

hempman
11-19-2015, 06:50 PM
see,this is the info we needed to understand...nobody clarified what t5 this was,
on Either end in the stories.
so it Could have been a Spinal tap,or ce,or any of the Rare and Expensive t5 Pb-s.

instead,you are saying it was just a reg chimera/paradise t5 mod he got off you?
thats only a 350k mod....
im still confused.
may i ask what the 2 t5s involved were?

and,i understand you are upset,im just asking generic questions no offense intended sir.
in fact,your offer to him seems more than fair,he can be back where he was.
doesnt seem right you should lose something tho,
seems more like some form of misunderstanding on both ends?

Claydough
11-19-2015, 06:56 PM
see,this is the info we needed to understand...nobody clarified what t5 this was,
on Either end in the stories.
so it Could have been a Spinal tap,or ce,or any of the Rare and Expensive t5 Pb-s.

instead,you are saying it was just a reg chimera/paradise t5 mod he got off you?
thats only a 350k mod....
im still confused.
may i ask what the 2 t5s involved were?

and,i understand you are upset,im just asking generic questions no offense intended sir.
in fact,your offer to him seems more than fair,he can be back where he was.
doesnt seem right you should lose something tho,
seems more like some form of misunderstanding on both ends?

What are you the trade police?

Get your nose out of other peoples business

Loh Book
11-19-2015, 07:16 PM
I'll hold for chat logs to be reviewed, where it will show my interest in a ce smg. And clearly shows I said T5 mod + smg. after trade was done i asked you about the smg and you said it vanished. That you'll submit a ticket to get it back. Why go through all that trouble to keep a purple ce pulser?



Then you said you already lowered the ego on the Casti. wrecking the trade value it had.

Mint
11-19-2015, 07:28 PM
see,this is the info we needed to understand...nobody clarified what t5 this was,
on Either end in the stories.
so it Could have been a Spinal tap,or ce,or any of the Rare and Expensive t5 Pb-s.

instead,you are saying it was just a reg chimera/paradise t5 mod he got off you?
thats only a 350k mod....
im still confused.
may i ask what the 2 t5s involved were?

and,i understand you are upset,im just asking generic questions no offense intended sir.
in fact,your offer to him seems more than fair,he can be back where he was.
doesnt seem right you should lose something tho,
seems more like some form of misunderstanding on both ends?

Sorry for being a little short fused. The whole situation has got me a little wound up. I can't understand why he didn't just take back the Springer in the original state he had give it to me (Minus a few hundred ego which is a small price to pay for the T5 mod), and keep the T5 Sniper Barrel Chimera mod he was after anyway. It simply comes down to a simple misunderstanding, but I know that I would never had agreed to trade a weapon I paid RL money for just a month or 2 ago, just to get a weapon I already have with a full set of T5 mods on my main anyway.

When we spoke of the trade, it was my understanding that he wanted the T5 Chimera mod more than he wanted the Springer, even with the T5 Power bore (Not sure of the synergy used). The very second he mentioned he was expecting to get the CE pulser, I told him that wasn't what we had agreed, and offered right away to give the Springer back. I move anything I'm trading to the character I'm trading from and do the deal all in 1 go, that way both parties know where we stand.

The situation would have been avoided if Loh Book had declined the trade and mentioned that he was expecting to see the CE pulser, like any other normal person in that situation would have, to which I would have told him there and then that it's not for sale or trade. As I've said, I've been in game a long time now, and this is the first problem I have ever had with another player, I've been trusted to hold onto some pretty good weapons and Jackpot items in the past with no problems at all. But alas he accepted the trade anyway and now we have this awkward situation where he won't accept his Springer back and is determined to get my CE Pulser, which isn't happening.

As far as I'm concerned the trade was complete the second we both accepted, but in the interests of trying to keep myself a respectable and trustworthy player I tried to make it right at a cost to myself. I can't see how I can be any fairer than that given the situation.

hempman
11-19-2015, 07:29 PM
Claydough (http://forums.defiance.com/member.php?15377012-Claydough)

What are you the trade police?

Get your nose out of other peoples business no,im merely Commenting on a topic in a Public Forum.
asking for info to figure out what really happened,because They put it on here.
if you arent interested in that,why not keep your comments to yourself?

Mint (http://forums.defiance.com/member.php?6567923-Mint)

The situation would have been avoided if Loh Book had declined the trade and mentioned that he was expecting to see the CE pulser, like any other normal person in that situation would have, to which I would have told him there and then that it's not for sale or trade. As I've said, I've been in game a long time now, and this is the first problem I have ever had with another player, I've been trusted to hold onto some pretty good weapons and Jackpot items in the past with no problems at all. But alas he accepted the trade anyway and now we have this awkward situation where he won't accept his Springer back and is determined to get my CE Pulser, which isn't happening.

i get where you are coming from.
Respect and Rep mean a lot ingame.
i kinda wish yall both were on xbox or i was on pc,
because of Course i have both of these ce pulsar and the casti.
id work it out n make everyone happy.
but of course,not to be.
i wish you both luck in getting this resolved.

Mint
11-19-2015, 07:38 PM
I know we were speaking about the CE pulser that night, but honestly Loh, I didn't say I'd trade my CE Pulser! I even private messaged a clan member to back track through Clan Chat to make sure the Pulser wasn't even mentioned as part of the trade as I know from the trading posts you were looking for CE gear. He told me that he read the chat and he couldn't see anywhere that I said the Pulser was supposed to be a part of the trade! The reason I couldn't back track is because as you know, I had to switch to my alt because I didn't have enough rep on my main to get the mod you wanted.

r1p
11-19-2015, 07:58 PM
What are you the trade police?

Get your nose out of other peoples business

That didn't stop you from demanding "real numbers" with regards to RNG.

Loh Book
11-20-2015, 05:40 PM
My exact point, you are a trusted player in the community and when i didnt see the SMG in the trade window. My thoughts were he is a trusted person in the clan and the smg was on his other toon he just switched from. Then i asked you about it and u changed to another toon and o sorry its lost..... Well i put a ticket in and get it back........ Why go through all that trouble to keep a purple pulser?

Ryu Soba JP
11-20-2015, 05:57 PM
Not that I've heard of. I hear scammers are running rampant on xbox with no fear of reprimand (for months now iirc)

Not just on XBOX, same on PS3 and if either of you watched the last live stream the response about reporting exploits and scams was an upsetting letdown.

Mint
11-20-2015, 06:20 PM
My exact point, you are a trusted player in the community and when i didnt see the SMG in the trade window. My thoughts were he is a trusted person in the clan and the smg was on his other toon he just switched from. Then i asked you about it and u changed to another toon and o sorry its lost..... Well i put a ticket in and get it back........ Why go through all that trouble to keep a purple pulser?

Exactly, trusted! And if I said the Pulser was part of the trade, you would have it in your inventory right now! The reason I went through the trouble to get it back was and still is the very same reason I put in the ticket, I intended to upgrade the weapon to Orange! Just because you believe the Pulser was part of the trade does not make it so, just the very same as me saying I believe the Pulser was not part of the trade doesn't make it so! It is a simple breakdown in communication.

The toon change was for me to get the mod that you wanted, as you well know! I didn't even know you were waiting for the Pulser to complete the trade until I mentioned to you the other day that I had successfully got the item back.

Another thing, you saw in clan chat that I was putting in a ticket to recover my lost Pulser, and you made a post after that day asking for a CE pulser on the trade section of the forums, even accepting purple if I'm not mistaken. Why would you post asking for a CE pulser if you truly believed that I was in the process of retrieving MY lost weapon on your behalf?

As soon as I found out you thought it was part of the trade, I immediately offered you the Springer back (a FACT you conveniently neglected to mention in your original post by the way, only telling half a story in favour of yourself) If/When the chat log comes back stating that the CE pulser was in fact not mentioned as any part of the trade, you will have no claim to get the Springer back either, but as far as I'm concerned you can have it back.

I believe what I have said to be true, and in the very unlikely event that the misunderstanding was on my part, you will receive a genuine apology publicly on this thread!

Mister Ree
11-20-2015, 07:53 PM
Just give it each other the items back and go your separate ways.

Mint
11-21-2015, 03:07 AM
Just give it each other the items back and go your separate ways.

Already tried that, he's determined he's getting the CE Pulser, but it's not happening :p

Cerebral
12-23-2015, 10:18 AM
So, after I was left with no choice but to defend myself during the misunderstanding, it turns out that Trion wouldn't help us resolve this issue we had! They messaged Loh and said there's nothing they will do about it . . I've given Loh the weapon in question even though I didn't have to, so finally the issue is resolved and I hope that Loh is happy with the conclusion :)

doctordabs
12-24-2015, 09:42 AM
Pointless submitting a ticket. Trion will do NOTHING. Best to just take it as a painful lesson and leave the clan.

This is not true - trion takes theft seriously. documentation and proof are required but still...

hempman
12-24-2015, 10:23 AM
This is not true - trion takes theft seriously. documentation and proof are required but still...
do you realize how many people have been thrown off these forums for posting about the scammers that are still to this day in the game?

for example,biggest na scammer of all,still there every day doing his scams,gummer tiredazz.
( not actual spelling )
this guy gets busted Daily for his scams ingame chat,and supposedly Trions reading the ingame chat.
so,the questions are endless as to why nothings been done about the thieves,
and why people get thrown off the forum for asking.

Mrdr
12-24-2015, 11:44 AM
do you realize how many people have been thrown off these forums for posting about the scammers that are still to this day in the game?

for example,biggest na scammer of all,still there every day doing his scams,gummer tiredazz.
( not actual spelling )
this guy gets busted Daily for his scams ingame chat,and supposedly Trions reading the ingame chat.
so,the questions are endless as to why nothings been done about the thieves,
and why people get thrown off the forum for asking.

Scammers must be whales for Trion. But if they're whales, why do they have to scam? On the other hand, Trion can claim that it's the responsibility of the victim to not trust anyone...yet they also claim that they take this behaviour very seriously. Seems they return stolen items sometimes and sometimes not...not sure what the deciding factor is but I know one person never got his stuff back while others have. The times they haven't returned the items they cited the fact they don't approve of that type of trading.

I'm not sure if the scammers have ever been "punished"...I'm not even sure that those who were caught exploiting loot drops and other things that are "ban worthy" weren't perma-banned.