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doctordabs
01-17-2016, 08:30 AM
OK i know that each one takes 10% and once it's broken u lose that till u repair the plates.
but my question is...

How do plates actually WORK in terms of how they're broken?
Does each plate have a pool of it's own hp that dwindles until it breaks, or do they have to exceed a threshold before they "shatter"....

my reasoning behind this question is - is it useful to stop at the plate repair station when i'm refilling my ammo even if i have 3 plates? will it replenish the "hp" (an hp meter for each plate that just isn't displayed?) of damaged plates...?

if it's a threshold then i know i'm just wasting time refilling full plates..

Bentu
01-17-2016, 08:53 AM
I don't know how the plates work but I've noticed that when I use the crate to repair my plates I often have problems with the stim repair system.

SirServed
01-17-2016, 08:55 AM
Sounds like time to TEST!

Mrdr
01-17-2016, 09:17 AM
Sounds like time to TEST!

Hey SirServed...we don't always agree on everything or get along here but I do want to say thanks for all you've done for the community with your calculations and testing. Most wouldn't do this and the community is better off With your efforts. I've learned lots from your posts (and the others who take this kind of time to help out)...even some of the ones I've disagreed with. I just wanted to say that your contributions are appreciated. Looking forward to your results on this.

doctordabs
01-17-2016, 09:27 AM
Sounds like time to TEST!

See you in PTS during weekly mntc on tuesday? lol

PTR47
01-17-2016, 09:54 AM
Seems like a health pool but I haven't done any focused testing. I was trying to get rid of my plates last week though. It seemed a plate took roughly 3 or 4 shields worth of damage before it came off.

Again, no explicit testing has been done -- if you have test ideas, or know if a quicker way to get rid of your armor (bio grenades do not help), I'm all ears.

C2THEMAX
01-17-2016, 10:08 AM
I noticed hellbug archers like to eat my plates very quickly 3 hits and I have no plates and I have to repair.

SirServed
01-17-2016, 10:11 AM
Seems like a health pool but I haven't done any focused testing. I was trying to get rid of my plates last week though. It seemed a plate took roughly 3 or 4 shields worth of damage before it came off.

Again, no explicit testing has been done -- if you have test ideas, or know if a quicker way to get rid of your armor (bio grenades do not help), I'm all ears.
I usually have to dual box to gather numbers in cases like this. I was going to make use of an Autumn's Scourge (since the effect sets non-Bio damage to a 100% coefficient) and a weapon with a reasonable damage number per shot to get at least semi-accurate results. The only Bio weapon I personally own is a Krampus and its damage per shot is too high for legitimate testing. I can assume from information gathered during normal play that Armor Plate durability increases with EGO. It would be interesting to know what the actual value is and how it scales as you level.

PTR47
01-17-2016, 10:19 AM
I usually have to dual box to gather numbers in cases like this. I was going to make use of an Autumn's Scourge (since the effect sets non-Bio damage to a 100% coefficient) and a weapon with a reasonable damage number per shot to get at least semi-accurate results. The only Bio weapon I personally own is a Krampus and its damage per shot is too high for legitimate testing. I can assume from information gathered during normal play that Armor Plate durability increases with EGO. It would be interesting to know what the actual value is and how it scales as you level.

Ya, little tougher to two-box on PS3. :) I was messing around with the feedback perk, which is why I started looking into getting rid of plates. "Number of shields" seems like a legitimate way of testing, as your shield gains strength, generally, as you get into higher EGO levels. I'm sure the number of shields will have a direct bearing as well, if it's a hidden health number. A detonator is a great idea though for quick and controlled removal of armor.

I'm interested to hear what you come up with. I'll do some testing over here.

EDIT: Some preliminary reporting:

The health of a plate is a set number; whatever the hidden health number, this is healed to full when you hit the armor box; the health of a plate does not recuperate over time.

Quick Methodology: using my big boomer, I found that I could destroy a plate of my own armor in 5-6 shots. Usually 5. I tested this 5 times for a baseline. The next try, I only shot 4 times then used the armor box. It took an additional 5 shots to remove an armor plate (so the armor was healed when I hit the box). Then I shot 4 times and waited 5 minutes. The 5th shot removed the armor (so the armor was not healed over time).

Additional information: this health seems to be based on your character, and not based on your shield. If you change your shield, it has no effect on whatever "health" the armor plates have. 4 shots on one shield (Respark), then I changed to a bigger shield (GA), and the 5th shot stripped the plate.

doctordabs
01-17-2016, 11:23 AM
Ya, little tougher to two-box on PS3. :) I was messing around with the feedback perk, which is why I started looking into getting rid of plates. "Number of shields" seems like a legitimate way of testing, as your shield gains strength, generally, as you get into higher EGO levels. I'm sure the number of shields will have a direct bearing as well, if it's a hidden health number. A detonator is a great idea though for quick and controlled removal of armor.

I'm interested to hear what you come up with. I'll do some testing over here.

EDIT: Some preliminary reporting:

The health of a plate is a set number; whatever the hidden health number, this is healed to full when you hit the armor box; the health of a plate does not recuperate over time.

Quick Methodology: using my big boomer, I found that I could destroy a plate of my own armor in 5-6 shots. Usually 5. I tested this 5 times for a baseline. The next try, I only shot 4 times then used the armor box. It took an additional 5 shots to remove an armor plate (so the armor was healed when I hit the box). Then I shot 4 times and waited 5 minutes. The 5th shot removed the armor (so the armor was not healed over time).

Additional information: this health seems to be based on your character, and not based on your shield. If you change your shield, it has no effect on whatever "health" the armor plates have. 4 shots on one shield (Respark), then I changed to a bigger shield (GA), and the 5th shot stripped the plate.

This answers my question beautifully!

Ea Rapture
01-17-2016, 11:26 AM
Plates also increase in health based on your ego rating, much like your HP and Shields (If at your rating).

Just play at TL10 with an ego 1k vs your 5k. Your plates break more often with a low ego.

Also, it would seem they are unaffected by TL Ego raises.

PTR47
01-17-2016, 11:37 AM
Plates also increase in health based on your ego rating, much like your HP and Shields (If at your rating).

Just play at TL10 with an ego 1k vs your 5k. Your plates break more often with a low ego.

Also, it would seem they are unaffected by TL Ego raises.

Ya, it's probably a percentage of your character's base health, unaffected by threat scaling.

Incedentally, I have found my bio bloodhound is great at removing my main's plates.

SirServed
01-17-2016, 11:43 AM
Adding to the previous information:

1. Each Armor Plate's Durability appears to be ~25k at 6k EGO.
2. Using an Armor Repair Station or an Armor Repair Stim will replenish the Durability on an unbroken Armor Plate.
3. The Durability damage done is directly related to the expected damage output of your weapon. This means that being under the effect of Bio in any way will lower your ability to break Armor Plates to 75% of what it should be.
4. While under the effect of a Damage Spike, the debilitating effect of Bio (on a player) is reduced by half, making it a 12.5% damage output loss instead of 25%. This means while you'll always want to roll Bio off your character, being in the effective area of a Damage Spike will halfen the penalty.

PTR47
01-17-2016, 11:47 AM
Very nice!


Adding to the previous information:

4. While under the effect of a Damage Spike, the debilitating effect of Bio is reduced by half, making it a 12.5% damage reduction instead of 25%.

Could this also be phrased that bio damage is not increased by the damage spike?

SirServed
01-17-2016, 11:52 AM
Could this also be phrased that bio damage is not increased by the damage spike?
No, I mean when the player is affected by Bio. I'll reword it.

PTR47
01-17-2016, 12:09 PM
No, I mean when the player is affected by Bio. I'll reword it.

Cool. Gotcha gotcha. Interesting find.

SirServed
01-17-2016, 12:27 PM
Cool. Gotcha gotcha. Interesting find.
What I realized was that instead of taking your expected damage and reducing it by 25% like it does in all other cases, it takes the Damage Spike's +100% to damage buff and directly subtracts 25%. Since it doesn't force the reduction onto your expected damage while under the effects of the Damage Spike, you end up with a 12.5% damage loss overall compared to your original expected damage (100% of one source and 75% of the second divided by 2 instead of 75% of 200%). Janky math for the win!

PTR47
01-17-2016, 12:36 PM
What I realized was that instead of taking your expected damage and reducing it by 25% like it does in all other cases, it takes the Damage Spike's +100% to damage buff and directly subtracts 25%. Since it doesn't force the reduction onto your expected damage while under the effects of the Damage Spike, you end up with a 12.5% damage loss overall compared to your original expected damage (100% of one source and 75% of the second divided by 2 instead of 75% of 200%). Janky math for the win!

Ya, I was guessing it had something to do with the x2 & 25/2. I misunderstood the second time also. You're talking about the 75% damage to shields, ya?

Skiller115
01-17-2016, 12:37 PM
Adding to the previous information:

1. Each Armor Plate's Durability appears to be ~25k at 6k EGO.

So does this means that if I were to use a non bio boltaction SR on someone in PVP that it should strip off one armor plate in one shot?

doctordabs
01-17-2016, 01:31 PM
I'm so glad that I thought to ask this question.. probably one of the most insightful threads in a while..

The outcome of both your tests has drastically affected my gameplay and loadout for the better :)

doctordabs
01-17-2016, 01:33 PM
So does this means that if I were to use a non bio boltaction SR on someone in PVP that it should strip off one armor plate in one shot?

Even if it is bio - i just tested it.. it did strip a plate off on the 2nd shot - first shot took their shield tho, 2nd shot killed them\stripped thair plate and they where down to 2 plates on the next round.

SirServed
01-17-2016, 02:37 PM
So does this means that if I were to use a non bio boltaction SR on someone in PVP that it should strip off one armor plate in one shot?
Non-Bio coefficient is a 10% to Durability conversion, so you would have to crit for at least 250k in one shot to remove an Armor Plate unaided.


Ya, I was guessing it had something to do with the x2 & 25/2. I misunderstood the second time also. You're talking about the 75% damage to shields, ya?
Defiance is treating the Damage Spike as a separate +100% instead of x2. So when we bring the Bio debuff into the equation, we end up with this.

Standard Bio Debuff: 20000(.75) = 15000. Naturally with a Damage spike, you would simply expect it to double this value.

Damage Spiked Bio: 20000 + 20000(.75) = 35000

Instead of applying the Bio debuff to the sum of the two (or both values), it's only affecting the Damage Spike's portion of the damage equation.

xXxDSMer
01-17-2016, 06:48 PM
Adding to the previous information:

1. Each Armor Plate's Durability appears to be ~25k at 6k EGO.
2. Using an Armor Repair Station or an Armor Repair Stim will replenish the Durability on an unbroken Armor Plate.
3. The Durability damage done is directly related to the expected damage output of your weapon. This means that being under the effect of Bio in any way will lower your ability to break Armor Plates to 75% of what it should be.
4. While under the effect of a Damage Spike, the debilitating effect of Bio (on a player) is reduced by half, making it a 12.5% damage output loss instead of 25%. This means while you'll always want to roll Bio off your character, being in the effective area of a Damage Spike will halfen the penalty.

was this tested with a corruptor/scourge? Does the same ~25k result come up when tested with a low ego or low damage bio nano weapon such as a pistol/ar? :) (while keeping in mind the % of damage done that bio nano weapon is actually doing to plates)

or perhaps a non-pl8 syn nanoless/syphon/rad weapon (with same low ego or low damage condition since HIGH damage weapons aren't great for testing the amount of health of anything lol) -

if the second were the test tool, and target took 250,000 damage to break a single plate then I'd agree with the 25k plate health
or if the first (an actual bio nano weapon) were the test tool and the target took ~18518 damage to break a plate.

Skiller115
01-17-2016, 07:41 PM
So do we share the same amount of armor plate durability as the NPCs? So for instance it'll take 2.5mil damage to drop all the armor off a Bulwark with non bio/pl8/durability damage weapons.

SirServed
01-17-2016, 10:46 PM
was this tested with a corruptor/scourge? Does the same ~25k result come up when tested with a low ego or low damage bio nano weapon such as a pistol/ar? :) (while keeping in mind the % of damage done that bio nano weapon is actually doing to plates)

or perhaps a non-pl8 syn nanoless/syphon/rad weapon (with same low ego or low damage condition since HIGH damage weapons aren't great for testing the amount of health of anything lol) -

if the second were the test tool, and target took 250,000 damage to break a single plate then I'd agree with the 25k plate health
or if the first (an actual bio nano weapon) were the test tool and the target took ~18518 damage to break a plate.
Yes. I made sure to adjust for Bio being able to deal an additional 25% Durability damage and the theory still held true. I used a lot of various methods to increase and lower the amount of Durability damage that would be output to arrive at the result of 25k.


So do we share the same amount of armor plate durability as the NPCs? So for instance it'll take 2.5mil damage to drop all the armor off a Bulwark with non bio/pl8/durability damage weapons.
I haven't tested that yet. I'll have to create a controlled environment as best I can for that test. I think the Scrappers at Bernal Tower should get the job done.

doctordabs
01-19-2016, 06:52 AM
What about the chickens in the cages at the bottom of TopNotch Toolworks?
They're static, they respawn every couple seconds... they don't shoot back...