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View Full Version : RNG constructive criticism per destros request



doctordabs
02-11-2016, 04:53 AM
Destro, you wanted constructive critisism, and i responded with a very well and long one but the original thread is gone so here is a better version of it.

In reference to you assuring us that RNG is truly random - Konami employees told players there wasn't a Konami code once, so please don't take offense that we do not, and cannot believe you when you say the RNG isn't rigged. You're an employee of the game so we will always assume you're speaking for the company.. sorry but it's true... not an attack. just ..truth.

Also, TheCrater references this in his interview with etw that the weights of some items where way out of scale - so if you're adding weights to items, how is this truly random? Please explain.

Drop Rates - we get it. you wont change drop rates because of the more fulfilling chase. So please in your words. Tell us what is considered a "too-long-of-a-chase"? Is 8 months too long to go before finally opening a jackpot? Is 8 months too long to grind for an oj rig?

I'll expand on that for expeditions:

MOST players who enter into long-session expeditions are not playing these with bmg's and average run-of-the-mill gear. You know this because you designed it that way. So we've already outfitted out gear to help us survive these things.. don't you think we've already got those blue sniper mods, purple run n gun bmg barrels etc? The loot that drops from expeditions should directly reflect the skill level and know-how required to complete the round. This means that at tier 30ish - I should not be seeing any blues at this point, and frankly we dont care for 9\10 purple guns either. we're in expeds rockin' supremes and legendaries... we want t4 mods by this point.. oj mods.. oj chips and rigs... or at least increase the silicon garnered from a given chip so we can buy one chip with the shards from 3 crushed chips.. i shouldn't have to crush over 50 chips to buy one chip.

Keystone chips didn't need to be added to the vendor honestly we see purple keystone chips long before we see an oj rig.
RIGS - with assorted slots or a randomizer needs to be in the vendor.

================================================== =
Paradise vendors - Yep.. got 1000 paradise rep i wont spend ... can we get a box in the paradise\chimira that works like the soleptor\vbi\gunslinger\TNT boxes? PLEASE? i ahve nothing to spend my rep on and thusly have no reason to play paradise events other than the 3 weekly cores. ... again.. end gamers aren't going to use guns from vendors that dont clearly state their bonuses and really perform as well as dropped loot..most of these don't - on that same note.. cores AND rep is silly - please charge one or the other.

================================================== ======

Please find a way to have loot karma.
One player should never nerd-rage out from playing an entire weekend and having nothing to show for it.....this is not a fulfilling chase.. clocking over 100 major Arkfalls in a single weekend and walking away with worse gear than your low ego-low-playtime counterparts...not fulfilling

. If a player logs that much time and activly inflicts that much damage(yea thats right, damage, dont let people load up alts and then stand there not contributing to the fight and then get a named), why are you punishing them with blues.. this is rng, sure.. but it's also a surefire way to ensure that EVERYONE loads an alt and then just stands there at arkfalls and does nothing... cuz hey i wont be rewarded for my effort anyway - as long as i show up and shoot 1 bullet i will get (and we all know it's true) the same if not better gear than that guy over there who's trying his heart out.
============================================
Arkforge rewards - a casual gamer plays on average 8 hours a week. During that 8 hours if they're doing dailies and one major arkfall event they're earning like maybe 40 AF per weekend... So a casual gamer needs to play for like a year straight just to have a 50% chance at supreming a weapon - do you see what's wrong with this picture? casual gamers are customers too and they won't pay the price of another game just for arkforge...they're casual after all.
============================================

Cars at major arkfalls - please disable players from spawnig cars inside the major event finals - this is a huge problem.. alcatraz has no cars.. san quinten i think it was , also has no cars ..... so we know this is something that can be done in a workaround situation.... i get that alcatraz and san Quentin are static... but if you made the ground be covered in the same walls that are at arkfalls which instantly destroy the cars, then people would just spawn nothings and they'd stop.

Xyorg
02-11-2016, 04:56 AM
i +1 this 100% did long post aswell on that flamming crap thread and it was deleted so i posted two more just 10 mins ago and u guys got a PM copy too yw

doctordabs
02-11-2016, 04:58 AM
Please keep this thread free of flaming or toxicity.
This thread is for constructive criticism per destro's request. -
keep it clean and please keep negativity off this thread thank you

Trick83
02-11-2016, 05:10 AM
Please keep this thread free of flaming or toxicity.
This thread is for constructive criticism per destro's request. -
keep it clean and please keep negativity off this thread thank you

As a person who has been here since alpha 1... still rocking purple grenades... unless a 100% NEVER seen an OJ... one JP in Trion only knows how much money... and no longer spending outside my PP...

I really wish we could +1 posts on the forums.

DEATHBRINGER210
02-11-2016, 05:22 AM
every single players rng loot chances are adjustable . do yall remember the loot bonus right? and alot of players rng loot drop seems to be stuck on level Scoorge McDuck

konstantinov
02-11-2016, 05:36 AM
Discussing moderation in any way is frowned upon.

doctordabs
02-11-2016, 05:37 AM
every single players rng loot chances are adjustable . do yall remember the loot bonus right? and alot of players rng loot drop seems to be stuck on level Scoorge McDuck

Perhaps this is something worth looking into? Are certain players being affected by WootLoot or other back-end systems that would inadvertently and positively impact their "take" ? Is it possible that some players are carrying these stats increases with them outside of the assigned instance?

This issue is seen with Damage Reduction in Expeditions so I don't feel this is too far-fetched of a possible theory. Might be worth looking at..

doctordabs
02-11-2016, 05:45 AM
...what I would like to see is a much better overall rng across the game (but especially in expos and events). My main issue with Defiance over the last 15 months always has been the reward v effort ratio (aka RNG). The only time, I've seen this be decent in Defiance was during the first SS event in 2014 where all participants had fair access to the jackpots (and yes I know some folks abused this). And I bet there is overwhelming player consensus that this was by far the best event. Events, I believe should reward loyal players, not simply push them into a fairly unproductive grind fest.

This does feel true. A player who's dedicated 100% of their gaming-time does eventually feel like they should get something back for said dedication ASIDE from the RNG.

Here's the logic:

Me: I have 100 available hours to play games. I love defiance. I'm going to dedicate ALL 100 hours to defiance!
Trion: You're a gamer.
Me: I'm a DEDICATED gamer. I go nowhere else. I spend money on Defiance only. I shun all other games!!!
Trion: And we appreciate your patronage. You're a gamer.
Me: But I participate in pts, I submit bug reports, I help the community and I give you free publicity via social media and I still feel like i'm no better off than a new player who plays 15 mins a week!
Trion: And we appreciate you. We assure you.
Me: Dude i just got another blue bmg stock are you kidding


This does feel to be the case with most of the players who are unhappy with the RNG... we want to feel like the output is unequivocal when compared to out effort... currently we do not feel like we're getting what we grind for

doctordabs
02-11-2016, 06:00 AM
Discussing moderation in any way is frowned upon.

We are not discussing moderators or forum moderation - I think you may be misunderstanding the post - Any forum moderator is welcome to message me on here. If i have inadvertently discussed any moderator actions in this thread i'll gladly edit it out.

konstantinov
02-11-2016, 06:03 AM
We are not discussing moderators or forum moderation - I think you may be misunderstanding the post - Any forum moderator is welcome to message me on here. If i have inadvertently discussed any moderator actions in this thread i'll gladly edit it out.

Destro and theCrater are both Trion employees and moderators for this forum. They're both mentioned in your OP.

doctordabs
02-11-2016, 06:07 AM
Destro and theCrater are both Trion employees and moderators for this forum. They're both mentioned in your OP.

That is not the same as discussing forum moderation or moderator actions. I'm referencing a specific interview that took place with Etw seen here: http://www.defiancedata.com/page=581/developer-interview-the-crater

This is not against policy.

doctordabs
02-11-2016, 06:08 AM
But while i'm at it.. thanks for keeping the thread alive.

-cheers

Smokey Black
02-11-2016, 06:38 AM
Me: Dude i just got another blue bmg stock are you kidding


This does feel to be the case with most of the players who are unhappy with the RNG... we want to feel like the output is unequivocal when compared to out effort... currently we do not feel like we're getting what we grind for

You are setting yourself up for disappointment. Your mind state of endlessly grinding to compensate for RNG for jackpots will always end in up like that 99.9% of the time.

You should enjoy hitting major arkfalls with friends and clan mates, if you spend your time shooting things at these majors and not just tagging stuff and going afk you will be rewarded for your grinding. You will have had good times, accumulated in game currency and gotten something along the way(even if its not jp)

The problem if what you feel you deserve for grinding and what you will receive in game are two totally different things, expect nothing and be happy when something does drop.

doctordabs
02-11-2016, 06:42 AM
You are setting yourself up for disappointment. Your mind state of endlessly grinding to compensate for RNG for jackpots will always end in up like that 99.9% of the time.

You should enjoy hitting major arkfalls with friends and clan mates, if you spend your time shooting things at these majors and not just tagging stuff and going afk you will be rewarded for your grinding. You will have had good times, accumulated in game currency and gotten something along the way(even if its not jp)

The problem if what you feel you deserve for grinding and what you will receive in game are two totally different things, expect nothing and be happy when something does drop.

Noted: How about sticking to the post topic now that you've said your piece?

Also - don't assume that i just show up at arkfalls and tag things. I dont. I show up and bring my entire clan and we go for maximum DPM and DPS to effectivly kill the baddies - which is how you're supposed to play.

Xyorg
02-11-2016, 06:49 AM
would like to do a critic non RNG related
( keeping in mind that i am speaking of non english version of the game such as mine French )

its that they for some reason decided to put old t6's jp names back to the suited language game , for instance my piper was t6 called DC11 piper <-- classy

Now its called "therese" , DC 10 is no lomger leaping lord as t6 but back as "Chpoutz" , same for all other old jps , i really would like the devs to make the jps keep there originally develloped names as t6 , espescially when the translation sucks that much

konstantinov
02-11-2016, 06:52 AM
Noted: How about sticking to the post topic now that you've said your piece?

Also - don't assume that i just show up at arkfalls and tag things. I dont. I show up and bring my entire clan and we go for maximum DPM and DPS to effectivly kill the baddies - which is how you're supposed to play.

This is a public forum and everyone is entitled to their opinions here. He just told you to not expect much to keep disappointment to a minimum.

PithHelmetIrath
02-11-2016, 06:58 AM
This is a public forum and everyone is entitled to their opinions here. He just told you to not expect much to keep disappointment to a minimum.

Amen.

/10characters

The Lady
02-11-2016, 07:01 AM
I thought it was already established that if you made your character before a certain date, you were stuck in ring hell.

M4ntiCOr3
02-11-2016, 07:02 AM
would like to do a critic non RNG related
( keeping in mind that i am speaking of non english version of the game such as mine French )

its that they for some reason decided to put old t6's jp names back to the suited language game , for instance my piper was t6 called DC11 piper <-- classy

Now its called "therese" , DC 10 is no lomger leaping lord as t6 but back as "Chpoutz" , same for all other old jps , i really would like the devs to make the jps keep there originally develloped names as t6 , espescially when the translation sucks that much

especially the trading/translating is now a pain
because of this

Xyorg
02-11-2016, 07:18 AM
just allowing us to change the game language in-game would solve this pretty easy (talking console )

Logain
02-11-2016, 08:58 AM
Keeping with the Spirit of the original post.

I really don't mind the loot rewards for Expos. The one thing I wish would drop more often especially at tiers 30+ are OJ chips. I mean the chips are not trade-able. You can break them down but do not get a lot of shards. But to fill out any OJ Rig you need these chips and ideally the chips should be both good for the rig you are designing. The only way to make this happen is to have more chips drop. I have had a couple drop (~5) but I have broken down 3. Two of which had something to do with vehicles (i.e. useless for my purposes).

There really is only one thing that really bothers me as far as the chase. And that is event JPs. But i have seen a reasonable solution. Which will be addressed below.

I like the idea of "earn-able" event JPs. I think Slay Bells was a step in the right direction, and I applaud that effort. Ground Pounder Cubed (not sure if it is a JP) on the other hand, I don't think is a reasonable quest. I tried jumping onto Trove and starting a character but do not think it was worthwhile to try and put in the time to complete the quest compared to the reverse amount of time needed for a Trove player to put in the quest. In my opinion, a crossover event would work best and might have been a good idea when NOT running a once a year event for one of the two games.

On the topic of "earn-able" event JPs but allowing the player a choice. There is a simple solution: Event JP Tokens.

Not my original idea, I have seen both Chump and Integral mention something similar.

What I propose is this:
1. An Event JP Token and can be used to purchase select event JPs in a special Event JP Vendor.
2. Think of something like the current Chimera or Paradise but it takes only one Event Token to purchase one of the event JPs.
3. The Event Vendors rotate with every Holiday event. BUT the Event Token can carry over to the next Holiday Event if there is not a JP the ark hunter wants this time around.
4. BUT the event Token has to be earned like something like Slay Bells. For example complete 10 Major Ark Falls and 10 Minor Event Arkfalls while killing 500 Hulkers/Monarchs/Bulwarks etc.
5. BUT only one event token can be earned per character.
6. The Event Token is not trade-able and is character bound.
7. The Event JP exchanged is also not trade-able. So the market cannot be flooded with too many JPs.
8. However, dropped Event JPs are trade-able.

I think that sums up what I would purpose. This would allow Ark Hunters to earn the opportunity of one JP if they miss out on any drops. BUT I do not foresee a substantial drop in sales from the bit store. As there will be people who want to get at least two JPs. Or collectors who want them all. Or would want the accompanying event outfit. Or the need for a particular T5 mod. The biggest deterrent I see from event lock box sales is the bit price on them. I feel like they are 2-3x more expensive than they should be. If the price was dropped 2-3x I suspect that the boxes would sell 4-5x more. Netting more profit.

Anyways that is my 2 scrip.

hempman
02-11-2016, 09:01 AM
puled identical snipers again,in the same box,like they keep saying cant happen yanno,
the rng is so bs in this game.

snipers shottys and shields..Why wont the weapon selection Change!!!???? :mad:

DEATHBRINGER210
02-11-2016, 09:06 AM
Keeping with the Spirit of the original post.

I really don't mind the loot rewards for Expos. The one thing I wish would drop more often especially at tiers 30+ are OJ chips. I mean the chips are not trade able. You can break them down but do not get a lot of shards. but to fill out any OJ Rig you need these chips and ideally the chips should be both good for the rig you are designing. The only way to make this happen is to have more drop. I have had a couple drop 9~5) but I have broken down 3. Two of which had something to do with vehicles.

There really is only one thing that really bothers me as far as the chase. And that is event JPs. But i have seen a reasonable solution. Which will be addressed below.

I like the idea of "earn-able" event JPs. I think Slay Bells was a step in the right direction, and I applaud that effort. Ground Pounder Cubed (not sure if it is a JP) on the other hand, I don't think is a reasonable quest. I tried jumping onto Trove and starting a character but do not think it was worthwhile to try and put in the time to complete the quest compared to the reverse amount of time needed for a Trove player to put in the quest. In my opinion, a crossover event would work best and might have been a good idea when NOT running a once a year event for one of the two games.

On the topic of "earn-able" event JPs but allowing the player a choice. There is a simple solution: Event JP Tokens.

Not my original idea, I have seen both Chump and Integral mention something similar.

What I propose is this:
1. An Event JP Token and can be used to purchase select event JPs in a special Event JP Vendor.
2. Think of something like the current Chimera or Paradise but it takes only one Event Token to purchase one of the event JPs.
3. The Event Vendors rotate with every Holiday event. BUT the Event Token can carry over to the next Holiday Event if there is not a JP the ark hunter wants this time around.
4. BUT the event Token has to be earned like something like Slay Bells. For example complete 10 Major Ark Falls and 10 Minor Event Arkfalls while killing 500 Hulkers/Monarchs/Bulwarks etc.
5. BUT only one event token can be earned per character.
6. The Event Token is not trade-able and is character bound.
7. The Event JP exchanged is also not trade-able. So the market cannot be flooded with too many JPs.
8. However, dropped Event JPs are trade-able.

I think that sums up what I would purpose. This would allow Ark Hunters to earn the opportunity of one JP if they miss out on any drops. BUT I do not foresee a substantial drop in sales from the bit store. As there will be people who want to get at least two JPs. Or collectors who want them all. Or would want the accompanying event outfit. Or the need for a particular T5 mod. The biggest deterrent I see from event lock box sales is the bit price on them. I feel like they are 2-3x more expensive than they should be. If the price was dropped 2-3x I suspect that the boxes would sell 4-5x more. Netting more profit.

Anyways that is my 2 scrip.

how about making all the jps non trade. even the bit boxes ones too. old jps too. and named too

konstantinov
02-11-2016, 09:08 AM
how about making all the jps non trade. even the bit boxes ones too. old jps too. and named too

+1 to this.

Logain
02-11-2016, 09:08 AM
how about making all the jps non trade. even the bit boxes ones too. old jps too. and named too

I personally would love that. Issue is if that was possible with the Event Token process I purposed there would be people who exploit it to obtain an unlimited number of JPs.

hempman
02-11-2016, 09:11 AM
I personally would love that. Issue is if that was possible with the Event Token process I purposed there would be people who exploit it to obtain an unlimited number of JPs.

i always thought this was a great idea
if they are untradeable then it doesnt really matter right??
seems logical?

konstantinov
02-11-2016, 09:13 AM
I personally would love that. Issue is if that was possible with the Event Token process I purposed there would be people who exploit it to obtain an unlimited number of JPs.

If they're untradable it'd be a nonfactor.

doctordabs
02-11-2016, 09:18 AM
seems like we came up with quite a few viable solutions that everyone would be happy with AND trion can still make hand-over-fist selling the bitstore boxes to get the other jp's you'd want.... everyone wins...

konstantinov
02-11-2016, 09:22 AM
seems like we came up with quite a few viable solutions that everyone would be happy with AND trion can still make hand-over-fist selling the bitstore boxes to get the other jp's you'd want.... everyone wins...

Making JPs player/account locked would fix inflation for the most part.

People that invest nothing into the game would leave and new players would become easily discouraged. It'd be the whole I just started the game and am entitled to everything someone else has argument yet again.

Logain
02-11-2016, 09:27 AM
Making JPs player/account locked would fix inflation for the most part.

I wouldn't make all JPs character/account bound. Just ones that could be obtained from the purposed Token system. This way a secondary market for JPs would still exist and people who picked up dropped or purchased JPs could trade unwanted ones for something else. I still would like to see Trion make some money to keep the game viable. I would foresee a large perceptus drop in box sales if all JPs were bound.

konstantinov
02-11-2016, 09:29 AM
I wouldn't make all JPs character/account bound. Just ones that could be obtained from the purposed Token system. This way a secondary market for JPs would still exist and people who picked up dropped or purchased JPs could trade unwanted ones for something else. I still would like to see Trion make some money to keep the game viable. I would foresee a large perceptus drop in box sales if all JPs were bound.

If they went the D3 route do you think that'd be the end of line?

hempman
02-11-2016, 09:31 AM
also like to take a min to explain how this game works for the Devs,so they can understand a bit better whats going on ingame.
first off,your rng is bs,and doesnt help anyone nor does it make people want to play your game.
second off,your bitstore crates and Drop ratios are completely whacked.
i dropped 70 bucks on this new syn,got one oj and No t5s..none..improved drop rates eyh?
and,
those t5 mods,that rarely drop,who do you think gets those?

heres your answer,Rich people.
Everything ingame belongs to these people.
those t5s,they go for 5 million at least in the new synergy.
so,when some Reg player pulls one,he immediately sells it.
same with the jackpots,you have no chance at all of buying one when some numbnut Offers 50 mill......
so,if you think your rng is working out in favour of the gamers,guess again.

what you have is 3 diff classes ingame.
the rich,the newbies,and the rest of us.
the rich dont give a ****,they loot dropped and got their money and still using it.
the newbies have no clue and when they find out how frakked up it is,half of them say screw this game.
and the rest of us?
we are just hoping we get a jp drop,and collecting our blues and wishing the Devs would Fix this game so we can have Fun.

Xyorg
02-11-2016, 09:35 AM
lets not rush into saying everyone agrees with making all jps untradable , but the bitstore and given ones yes ,no retroactivity tho , and keep the dropped ones tradable but insanly rare , also install a bloody player bump after inventory scan , a player cannot drop twice an item with the same name as he has in his inv already , that goes for jps and t1 to 3, t4 and oj variables are still important cos of more or less desirable rolls or since is so expensive to reroll just let us reroll our weaps every tier as we wish with no doubles allowed still , and if the same player gets a jp he already has the drp must be bumped to the next players chose by rng for a oj for instance

konstantinov
02-11-2016, 10:02 AM
also like to take a min to explain how this game works for the Devs,so they can understand a bit better whats going on ingame.
first off,your rng is bs,and doesnt help anyone nor does it make people want to play your game.
second off,your bitstore crates and Drop ratios are completely whacked.
i dropped 70 bucks on this new syn,got one oj and No t5s..none..improved drop rates eyh?
and,
those t5 mods,that rarely drop,who do you think gets those?

heres your answer,Rich people.
Everything ingame belongs to these people.
those t5s,they go for 5 million at least in the new synergy.
so,when some Reg player pulls one,he immediately sells it.
same with the jackpots,you have no chance at all of buying one when some numbnut Offers 50 mill......
so,if you think your rng is working out in favour of the gamers,guess again.

what you have is 3 diff classes ingame.
the rich,the newbies,and the rest of us.
the rich dont give a ****,they loot dropped and got their money and still using it.
the newbies have no clue and when they find out how frakked up it is,half of them say screw this game.
and the rest of us?
we are just hoping we get a jp drop,and collecting our blues and wishing the Devs would Fix this game so we can have Fun.

Scrip is all but useless. Most established players will only trade.

stefb42
02-11-2016, 10:32 AM
Last event jp that dropped for me was a carving knife during armistice, looking like I'm gonna go a full year without an event jp dropping for me

And as random as they say it is, I can always be assured a stack of T4 event mods after every event, and I mean hundreds but never a gun worthy of putting the mods on

cmpowell
02-11-2016, 10:34 AM
I think they should just bring back the loot bonus the way it worked not they way they said it was intended to when they took it down. I remember running clan and self loot bonuses for every event.

pew pew pew
02-11-2016, 10:40 AM
In reference to you assuring us that RNG is truly random - Konami employees told players there wasn't a Konami code once, so please don't take offense that we do not, and cannot believe you when you say the RNG isn't rigged.Cause a Konami code is pretty much the same as a random generated number *rolleyes*


Also, TheCrater references this in his interview with etw that the weights of some items where way out of scale - so if you're adding weights to items, how is this truly random? Please explain.You never have heard anything about rarity, about more and less common items? A percentage chance to get certain items doesn't affect the RNG. The randomness of the number doesn't change. Mocking about drop chances, not an issue with RNG.


Drop Rates - we get it. you wont change drop rates because of the more fulfilling chase. So please in your words. Tell us what is considered a "too-long-of-a-chase"? Is 8 months too long to go before finally opening a jackpot? Is 8 months too long to grind for an oj rig?I know a lot of people who got Jackpots from Elite Lock Boxes within their first week. I myself got Sweet Nothings within the first 3 majors I did... no that's not the regular case I was unlucky with SS. The point is; That's randomness.



I'll expand on that for expeditions:

MOST players who enter into long-session expeditions are not playing these with bmg's and average run-of-the-mill gear. You know this because you designed it that way. So we've already outfitted out gear to help us survive these things.. don't you think we've already got those blue sniper mods, purple run n gun bmg barrels etc?Mocking about drop chances, not an issue with RNG.


The loot that drops from expeditions should directly reflect the skill level and know-how required to complete the round. This means that at tier 30ish - I should not be seeing any blues at this point, and frankly we dont care for 9\10 purple guns either. we're in expeds rockin' supremes and legendaries... we want t4 mods by this point.. oj mods.. oj chips and rigs... So by my words, you feel entitled. How about playing for fun? It sounds way too serious to play the game for loot :O Regardless of the fact people who are running these high tier expeditions are exploiting the game to do so.


or at least increase the silicon garnered from a given chip so we can buy one chip with the shards from 3 crushed chips.. i shouldn't have to crush over 50 chips to buy one chip.I don't run that much expeditions but I do have over 800 Silicon Shards... You have to have much more since you are doing expeditions daily.


Paradise vendors - Yep.. got 1000 paradise rep i wont spend ... can we get a box in the paradise\chimira that works like the soleptor\vbi\gunslinger\TNT boxes? PLEASE? i ahve nothing to spend my rep on and thusly have no reason to play paradise events other than the 3 weekly cores. ... again.. end gamers aren't going to use guns from vendors that dont clearly state their bonuses and really perform as well as dropped loot..most of these don't - on that same note.. cores AND rep is silly - please charge one or the other.Just because you have better weapons doesn't mean everyone has... some are nice and the T5 mods are also tradeable. However, I would like to be able to buy arkforge from Paradise vendor such as we are able from Chimera vendor. Speaking about 1000 rep, Echelon and Liro vendor need more stuff for a rep sink, probably an elite lock box?!


Please find a way to have loot karma.
One player should never nerd-rage out from playing an entire weekend and having nothing to show for it.....this is not a fulfilling chase.. clocking over 100 major Arkfalls in a single weekend and walking away with worse gear than your low ego-low-playtime counterparts...not fulfillingYou can't get better and better and better and better items. It only leads to way overpowered stuff so yes there are some cases where you are unable to show anything for because you are well equipped.


If a player logs that much time and activly inflicts that much damage(yea thats right, damage, dont let people load up alts and then stand there not contributing to the fight and then get a named), why are you punishing them with blues.. this is rng, sure.. but it's also a surefire way to ensure that EVERYONE loads an alt and then just stands there at arkfalls and does nothing... cuz hey i wont be rewarded for my effort anyway - as long as i show up and shoot 1 bullet i will get (and we all know it's true) the same if not better gear than that guy over there who's trying his heart out.This discussion gets really old. Just imagine a disconnect and your "contribution" is gone. Low ego players are not doing that much damage, so even if they are fighting every damn second they will end up to be worse than a 6k which just fights for a minute (T4 Volge Crate? Haven't got any with my low ego toons -.-) So anything which involves "damage done" leads to less chances for beginners. That's way we only have to score, to make it FAIR for ALL.


Arkforge rewards - a casual gamer plays on average 8 hours a week. During that 8 hours if they're doing dailies and one major arkfall event they're earning like maybe 40 AF per weekend... So a casual gamer needs to play for like a year straight just to have a 50% chance at supreming a weapon - do you see what's wrong with this picture? casual gamers are customers too and they won't pay the price of another game just for arkforge...they're casual after all.Casual players neither have 6k(s) nor they are that much entitled about Supreme stuff. Casual players are probably the most happiest players in Defiance. You want lower arkforge costs to spent less time farming af by yourself.


Cars at major arkfalls - please disable players from spawnig cars inside the major event finals - this is a huge problem.. alcatraz has no cars.. san quinten i think it was , also has no cars ..... so we know this is something that can be done in a workaround situation.... i get that alcatraz and san Quentin are static... but if you made the ground be covered in the same walls that are at arkfalls which instantly destroy the cars, then people would just spawn nothings and they'd stop.Just no... Better solution would be a significant score reduce if your car gets wrecked inside a major.

pew pew pew
02-11-2016, 10:54 AM
nor does it make people want to play your game.And yet you are playing -.-

Fallen_Aingeal
02-11-2016, 03:17 PM
I spawn my vehicle at San Quentin every time I'm there...

Kuroro
02-11-2016, 03:30 PM
there is not any discussion.+1 to the op
by the way,i wanna know if destro said the weekly non tradeable jp rewards will be back

Logain
02-11-2016, 03:33 PM
there is not any discussion.+1 to the op
by the way,i wanna know if destro said the weekly non tradeable jp rewards will be back

As far as I know, it is an OJ. Demo did not comment on it as far as I remember.

Kuroro
02-11-2016, 03:34 PM
but yesterday there was a thread where everybody asked for that and now it is deleted so i want to know if destro said yes or what

Logain
02-11-2016, 03:39 PM
but yesterday there was a thread where everybody asked for that and now it is deleted so i want to know if destro said yes or what

Here you go: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?233548-Destromathe-Flaming-crap

doctordabs
02-11-2016, 05:29 PM
Here you go: http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?233548-Destromathe-Flaming-crap

I'd love to see rasheres and rarnoks thoughts on this too not just destro's.. they're a team after all...

richardkrainium
02-11-2016, 07:13 PM
they never did explain how it was possible for someone to pull nothing but t3s from a t4 only mod cache....is that broken rng or broken drop

Aborted
02-11-2016, 09:16 PM
Rng of this game is bad means the worst of a kind lol, forget about events even bit store boxes drops are ridiculous lol.... its good tht new players get ojs n jps but even Freeloaders get that by doing nothing this kind of reward system n rng is not a great thing coming from a company that holds a good reputation in gamers world....u gotta do something bout it "at least they should think about it why thr r soo many complaint" that would be great start. We all are here cause we like to play the game and we are pointing out some bad areas of the game.

DEATHBRINGER210
02-11-2016, 11:05 PM
what is going to take to take to get a new rng . it took a lot less time to redo the entire pvp system . its time for a change in the old loot system as well

Octo
02-11-2016, 11:07 PM
Pew pew pew's post has some pretty good answers to the original post, you should read it.

And to quote Destro:

Too little drop rates, and there is no reason to play. Too high drop rates, and again, there is no reason to play.

Weeeeell, kinda.
Too little drop rates: You can farm, but it's exhausting, and it's a good way to increase our frustration and run away from the game. So you create an alt (or 2, or 40) to have more chance to get what you need. So more lag at the majors, and more "hey, I got 6 jackpots, an oj frag grenade and a pony on my low ego alt and nothing on my 6k toon wtfrnglol" threads on the forum.
Too high drop rates: You can play, enjoy the event and eventually get the guns you want. Which is nice, especially when you know how ridiculous the current market is.
I'd rather play the game properly and enjoy my new guns instead of wasting 8 hours per day using my old guns over and over again because I got nothing new. Since events are more frequent than new content (like new missions, new arkfalls, new ennemies etc), the new guns are basically the only reason to play for most of us, so they shouldn't be that hard to get !
I do like the Token idea btw, could be an interesting alternative.

Also, what you can do, and you should, is to "clear" the loot table.
No one wants a guerrilla buttstock, a splash muzzle, a shotgun hip spread, a munition interchanger, a gun with a backpack syn or a nanoless gun.
If you fix the loot table then you can probably keep the current drop rate.

You can also add a bonus reward when we get first place. Or top 3/top 5 to "congratulate" the good players. Nothing too fancy to avoid the bmg idiots, but maybe a third reward, just like the private Warmasters during the... solstice (?) event.

Xyorg
02-11-2016, 11:10 PM
what is going to take to take to get a new rng . it took a lot less time to redo the entire pvp system . its time for a change in the old loot system as well

i'll support that , lets do an indiagogo project for trion to change RNG x) if there is money involved it might motivate them , and this is where we start dictating when the changes must happen , and that is SOON , no more events please trion until you make up a real reward system and stop relying on what you think works but we have been telling u does have some annoying redundency problem , there is less of a thril of the chase when i get 24 different t4 BRs in a few 7-10 rounds of exped or gettin 2 vbi manta 4 in a elite lockbox

crazyged
02-11-2016, 11:47 PM
Thing is, there's SOMETHING wrong with the game.

My clan recruitment is like a revolving door - if someone stays in the game for more than a week, it's a record.

Why is this game not retaining players? If it's not RNG, then what is it?

My friends list has shrunk from always full to maybe 8 people online at a time, so I know other clans are experiencing this too.

People are finding their "more fulfilling chase" elsewhere these days. The game is being held up by a constant, back and forth stream of new players, who check things out, get bored and move on.

There's just no motivation to stay online, with no real reward in sight.

Sad, really....

pew pew pew
02-12-2016, 12:17 AM
-snip-
It's not the loot/rng unlike many of you think. The game simply doesn't offer much to do (saying that I've spend 1774 hours, great to have friends to play with o.O). But seriously once you've completed the story line, the side missions, rampages and what not, the game is highly repetitive.

PVP was (probably still is, haven't played yet) bad, 4 maps to play with is a joke anyways. Missing content!!!

Then new players seeing you endgame players continuously mocking about the RNG, do you think it helps to improve their gaming experience? The RNG/Loot is great for new players, you are just spoiled after a while and an "upgrade" isn't going to happen since you got the good loot already.

Just some thoughts ;)

Hunter0
02-12-2016, 12:35 AM
That Player has pulled 4 JPs LOL what a joke of an RNG.

Octo
02-12-2016, 12:52 AM
It's not the loot/rng unlike many of you think. The game simply doesn't offer much to do (saying that I've spend 1774 hours, great to have friends to play with o.O). But seriously once you've completed the story line, the side missions, rampages and what not, the game is highly repetitive.

PVP was (probably still is, haven't played yet) bad, 4 maps to play with is a joke anyways. Missing content!!!

Then new players seeing you endgame players continuously mocking about the RNG, do you think it helps to improve their gaming experience? The RNG/Loot is great for new players, you are just spoiled after a while and an "upgrade" isn't going to happen since you got the good loot already.

Just some thoughts ;)

Well I think you're wrong on this one.
The "rng/loot" is good for new players because they're new, they need to learn how the game works (what makes a good gun, the rolls, the syn etc) so the loot quality doesn't matter in this case.
Now, a high ego player can be pretty much bored because, as you said, the game doesn't offer much to do when you reach max ego. The only thing that makes you play the game is the loot, because you want a better gun, or just something new. I mean, that's why we have expeditions; it's just a bunch of old maps, with old ennemies, nothing new, you just want your rig and one of the Supremes, right ?
A new gun in your inventory works exactly like a new mission, it gives you a reason to play the game and break the monotony. And of course, when the mission is over you want to start another one. And again.
That's why the loot is important.

pew pew pew
02-12-2016, 03:34 AM
That Player has pulled 4 JPs LOL what a joke of an RNG.You are referring to?





The only thing that makes you play the game is the loot, because you want a better gun, or just something new.And you don't get new guns with the events? Even if you are the unluckiest man alive you get your hands on purple dailies and orange weeklies. Since we are able to upgrade epic weapons to supreme I don't see any reason that the drop rate has to be increased.

However, even if you are lucky and get a Jackpot then there are lots of people who are mocking about the weapons anyways. Cause the weapons are doing less damage or having not that roll what the favorite weapon had. We do have a HUGE variety of weapons which are viable to use. Exactly this is actual a point what is better for casual players and beginners. We don't have to run the game 12 hours per day to get our hands on something worthy to use. For bragging rights, yay... you have to grind a lot.


I mean, that's why we have expeditions; it's just a bunch of old maps, with old ennemies, nothing new, you just want your rig and one of the Supremes, right ?
A new gun in your inventory works exactly like a new mission, it gives you a reason to play the game and break the monotony. And of course, when the mission is over you want to start another one. And again.
That's why the loot is important.Yes, it is important but it is working well as is but if I read something like op stated... that's pure entitlement, he has the feeling that he deserved something for his effort he has put into the game.

So a broken RNG/Loot table is something different than entitlement.

A_D3MON
02-12-2016, 03:43 AM
Keeping with the Spirit of the original post.

I really don't mind the loot rewards for Expos. The one thing I wish would drop more often especially at tiers 30+ are OJ chips. I mean the chips are not trade-able. You can break them down but do not get a lot of shards. But to fill out any OJ Rig you need these chips and ideally the chips should be both good for the rig you are designing. The only way to make this happen is to have more chips drop. I have had a couple drop (~5) but I have broken down 3. Two of which had something to do with vehicles (i.e. useless for my purposes).

There really is only one thing that really bothers me as far as the chase. And that is event JPs. But i have seen a reasonable solution. Which will be addressed below.

I like the idea of "earn-able" event JPs. I think Slay Bells was a step in the right direction, and I applaud that effort. Ground Pounder Cubed (not sure if it is a JP) on the other hand, I don't think is a reasonable quest. I tried jumping onto Trove and starting a character but do not think it was worthwhile to try and put in the time to complete the quest compared to the reverse amount of time needed for a Trove player to put in the quest. In my opinion, a crossover event would work best and might have been a good idea when NOT running a once a year event for one of the two games.

On the topic of "earn-able" event JPs but allowing the player a choice. There is a simple solution: Event JP Tokens.

Not my original idea, I have seen both Chump and Integral mention something similar.

What I propose is this:
1. An Event JP Token and can be used to purchase select event JPs in a special Event JP Vendor.
2. Think of something like the current Chimera or Paradise but it takes only one Event Token to purchase one of the event JPs.
3. The Event Vendors rotate with every Holiday event. BUT the Event Token can carry over to the next Holiday Event if there is not a JP the ark hunter wants this time around.
4. BUT the event Token has to be earned like something like Slay Bells. For example complete 10 Major Ark Falls and 10 Minor Event Arkfalls while killing 500 Hulkers/Monarchs/Bulwarks etc.
5. BUT only one event token can be earned per character.
6. The Event Token is not trade-able and is character bound.
7. The Event JP exchanged is also not trade-able. So the market cannot be flooded with too many JPs.
8. However, dropped Event JPs are trade-able.

I think that sums up what I would purpose. This would allow Ark Hunters to earn the opportunity of one JP if they miss out on any drops. BUT I do not foresee a substantial drop in sales from the bit store. As there will be people who want to get at least two JPs. Or collectors who want them all. Or would want the accompanying event outfit. Or the need for a particular T5 mod. The biggest deterrent I see from event lock box sales is the bit price on them. I feel like they are 2-3x more expensive than they should be. If the price was dropped 2-3x I suspect that the boxes would sell 4-5x more. Netting more profit.

Anyways that is my 2 scrip.

i agree with this...

and for those saying that OP is feeling entitled if he is so wat... thats human nature now but he isnt... doesn't change the fact that the RNG n this game is irrevocably screwed and pretty much the only way to make the game enjoyable for end game players is to do an overhaul of the rng....

i think a token system wuld b a great idea... also a rehaul of the current scoring system to bring back the damage board and keep the current score system at the same time but have the event end drops rely on both with emphasis on the damage portion wuld b better... then u wuld have major contributions to damage as people wuld b looking for a better chance at a jp or even an oj while people who sit there spamming bmgs or infectors wuld have the same chances as before for ojs or those who fire one shot have pretty much no chance at an oj let alone a purp

pew pew pew
02-12-2016, 05:21 AM
and for those saying that OP is feeling entitled if he is so wat... thats human natureWell not for all humans as it seems... There are just some (supposing the majority) who feel not that much entitled and are playing the game to have fun. I do get it that people enjoy the game on different ways. Seeing that people are paying a ****load nowadays for reskins (when I was a kid they were for free) and virtual items just to stretch their e... is kind of weird. We are so used already to play with our e.... nowadays that a lot of people don't get the meaning of entitlement.

konstantinov
02-12-2016, 05:46 AM
Well not for all humans as it seems... There are just some (supposing the majority) who feel not that much entitled and are playing the game to have fun. I do get it that people enjoy the game on different ways. Seeing that people are paying a ****load nowadays for reskins (when I was a kid they were for free) and virtual items just to stretch their e... is kind of weird. We are so used already to play with our e.... nowadays that a lot of people don't get the meaning of entitlement.

I feel entitled to some breadsticks and cheese fries. Excuse me for a minute.

pew pew pew
02-12-2016, 07:51 AM
Not to derail this topic even more but that's another reason why people are leaving the game... visual effects.

If you wanna mock about anything then visuals... Just some screenies from a single Incursion... but this happens at all greater events but also coop. That bugs me that much already again that I'll only complete the event daily. My eyes are bleeding. Epilepsy anyone?


https://imgur.com/a/BAPuG

And if you think it's just temporary... we all know it better that this happens continuously all the time during an incursion/major but hey praise the Mass Cannon. -.-

doctordabs
02-12-2016, 07:55 AM
Not to derail this topic even more but that's another reason why people are leaving the game... visual effects.

If you wanna mock about anything then visuals... Just some screenies from a single Incursion... but this happens at all greater events but also coop. That bugs me that much already again that I'll only complete the event daily.


https://imgur.com/a/BAPuG

yea wow thats pretty bad right there.... holy smokes.

doctordabs
02-12-2016, 07:59 AM
Loosely quoting you here 'Des.....

but you basically said if rng is too bad, players have no reason to play and vice versa with rng that's too good..

i already have all the blue melee buttstocks... over.. and over... and over... and over....

So please clarify what my reason to play is right now?

hempman
02-12-2016, 08:04 AM
Thing is, there's SOMETHING wrong with the game.

My clan recruitment is like a revolving door - if someone stays in the game for more than a week, it's a record.

Why is this game not retaining players? If it's not RNG, then what is it?

My friends list has shrunk from always full to maybe 8 people online at a time, so I know other clans are experiencing this too.

People are finding their "more fulfilling chase" elsewhere these days. The game is being held up by a constant, back and forth stream of new players, who check things out, get bored and move on.

There's just no motivation to stay online, with no real reward in sight.

Sad, really....

are you Reading this Trion??
you Should be.......

doctordabs
02-12-2016, 08:12 AM
are you Reading this Trion??
you Should be.......

Have you seen the dev tracker? not one touch on this thread or anything remotely close to it........

Very discouraging... off i go to play something else.. i give up on defiance for now...

BECAUSE A VIDEO GAME SHOULD NEVER MAKE YOU FEEL DEFEATED AND LIKE YOU JUST WASTED YOUR ALLOTED GAME-TIME

Gaige12
02-12-2016, 08:43 AM
are you Reading this Trion??
you Should be.......

Hey hemp, you missed the rest of my quote in your sig line :D

Ray8888
02-12-2016, 10:34 AM
And you don't get new guns with the events? Even if you are the unluckiest man alive you get your hands on purple dailies and orange weeklies. Since we are able to upgrade epic weapons to supreme I don't see any reason that the drop rate has to be increased.

However, even if you are lucky and get a Jackpot then there are lots of people who are mocking about the weapons anyways. Cause the weapons are doing less damage or having not that roll what the favorite weapon had. We do have a HUGE variety of weapons which are viable to use. Exactly this is actual a point what is better for casual players and beginners. We don't have to run the game 12 hours per day to get our hands on something worthy to use. For bragging rights, yay... you have to grind a lot.

Yes, it is important but it is working well as is but if I read something like op stated... that's pure entitlement, he has the feeling that he deserved something for his effort he has put into the game.

So a broken RNG/Loot table is something different than entitlement.

TRUTH!
Crying because you have to get by with a dual nano purple Blast Rifle that's supremable. Boohoo.

nicholas
02-12-2016, 10:49 AM
I have lost all interest in this game. the rng for me sucks.

konstantinov
02-12-2016, 11:48 AM
I think a lot of us can agree we play the game for the friends we've made not so much for the game itself.

Olaf
02-12-2016, 12:24 PM
When did they stop allowing arkbreaker weapons to reroll a rarity bonus? Could have sworn I remember there being the option for it on my shield spanner mk1 before I stopped playing just before the pvp update?
Or am I imagining things.

Ea Rapture
02-12-2016, 12:26 PM
I think a lot of us can agree we play the game for the friends we've made not so much for the game itself.

Meaty is correct. While I do enjoy playing the events and being a troll and being a terrible person in general. I usually enjoy the events because people are actually on to talk to. If not, I'll go play Battlefield or Mass Effect. Or some other game where noone talks and just play the game to play the game.

keptman
02-12-2016, 12:45 PM
RNG STRAIGHT UP SUCKS.

Since the event dropped I've gotten one oj. 6 t4 mods 3 of which are garbage (melee, scope, min damage).
The onslaught of t3 mods is ridiculous. If RNG worked would we not be comparing notes and complaining. I've seen the same people in zone selling there JP's and oj's. It's not far too grind out a 1st place and get blues. Ark forge got taken away because people were getting to much. Well isn't that what the cap was installed for.
When I started this game we had a abundance of forge to do with what was needed. Now your lucky for an average player to get up to 100 in a week. That's with running a daily chimera. But you really think I want to run them over and over with people that won't or simple don't want to PRESS TRIANGLE.
I mean it's bad enough that the game lags but these cause people to dc.

The RNG is so bad for me that the lock boxes have been making up for it. Since Monday I FINALLY SCORED A JACKPOT. First ever in THREE years, guess what weapon that we don't get from event a sniper. If we did that's all I would be getting. Must be trions sick joke on certain players to give them the same crap over and over.
It seems like with every event I get the same guns and mods. Forcing me to buy or trade with people in zone. Taking away from game play.

It would be nice that if you did get top score you would be rewarded properly. But BMG's would just ruin this anyways.

On a side note thanks trion for giving us the mass cannon. Now that I can't see it doesn't matter. You've given people a crutch that normally don't have the skill to complete a coop or expo without one. All these things do is rob points and kills. I've been killed more since last event because of people using them. Blowing everything up in there path. I've stopped using my dets with people running these cause it blows you up. Especially when they won't even stop to pick you up after they got you killed. From blowing up the crystal in expo runs.

A_D3MON
02-12-2016, 12:59 PM
RNG STRAIGHT UP SUCKS.

Since the event dropped I've gotten one oj. 6 t4 mods 3 of which are garbage (melee, scope, min damage).
The onslaught of t3 mods is ridiculous. If RNG worked would we not be comparing notes and complaining. I've seen the same people in zone selling there JP's and oj's. It's not far too grind out a 1st place and get blues. Ark forge got taken away because people were getting to much. Well isn't that what the cap was installed for.
When I started this game we had a abundance of forge to do with what was needed. Now your lucky for an average player to get up to 100 in a week. That's with running a daily chimera. But you really think I want to run them over and over with people that won't or simple don't want to PRESS TRIANGLE.
I mean it's bad enough that the game lags but these cause people to dc.

The RNG is so bad for me that the lock boxes have been making up for it. Since Monday I FINALLY SCORED A JACKPOT. First ever in THREE years, guess what weapon that we don't get from event a sniper. If we did that's all I would be getting. Must be trions sick joke on certain players to give them the same crap over and over.
It seems like with every event I get the same guns and mods. Forcing me to buy or trade with people in zone. Taking away from game play.

It would be nice that if you did get top score you would be rewarded properly. But BMG's would just ruin this anyways.

On a side note thanks trion for giving us the mass cannon. Now that I can't see it doesn't matter. You've given people a crutch that normally don't have the skill to complete a coop or expo without one. All these things do is rob points and kills. I've been killed more since last event because of people using them. Blowing everything up in there path. I've stopped using my dets with people running these cause it blows you up. Especially when they won't even stop to pick you up after they got you killed. From blowing up the crystal in expo runs.

MOST people like the mass cannons for running thru coops or expos because it gets the job done FASTER... i mean if u kno they're using them y do u keep running ahead to get more kills? evry1 has the same chance at loot and if ur just running coops for forge it makes the process go faster... when me and my clan run a expert coop or expo normally we all use mass cannons and we all kno to stay back so we dont die from our own blasts (u cant b killed by another persons WEAPON unless it hits an explosive beside u) and on average we'll finish a round of expos every 10-15 minutes without any1 going down or we'll finish a coop every 5-10 minutes... we dont care who kills how many enemies as long as the job gets done

doctordabs
02-12-2016, 01:03 PM
*shrugs*
i gave up hoping that anyone of importance would read this and actually care. i'm so done.

A_D3MON
02-12-2016, 01:09 PM
*shrugs*
i gave up hoping that anyone of importance would read this and actually care. i'm so done.

sry man... there were sum good ideas though... i still stand by wat i said about bringing the damage board back and using both the current score and damage scoreboard to calculate the type of reward one wuld get while using mainly the damage portion 2 determine rewards

doctordabs
02-12-2016, 01:12 PM
sry man... there were sum good ideas though... i still stand by wat i said about bringing the damage board back and using both the current score and damage scoreboard to calculate the type of reward one wuld get while using mainly the damage portion 2 determine rewards

if trion isn't making a ton of money on it they wont do it.

if you think player satisfaction comes into the picture at all during their meetings, i've got a darn good feeling you'd be sadly mistaken

Olaf
02-12-2016, 01:28 PM
if trion isn't making a ton of money on it they wont do it.

if you think player satisfaction comes into the picture at all during their meetings, i've got a darn good feeling you'd be sadly mistaken

The cubed ground pounder says it all really. Compare that reward with troves and you can see who put more thought and effort into the rewards for their players.

And 7 days, not a peep from our community manager? .... Not even going to talk about this as will probably end up with a ban.

DEATHBRINGER210
02-12-2016, 01:36 PM
ever since the reset alot of players a getting players are get infectors . im setting here at the fork all the players getting the weekly gift and the rng in stuck giving everyone infectors. for daily and weekly

Ray8888
02-12-2016, 01:57 PM
The cubed ground pounder says it all really. Compare that reward with troves and you can see who put more thought and effort into the rewards for their players.

And 7 days, not a peep from our community manager? .... Not even going to talk about this as will probably end up with a ban.

http://forums.defiance.com/forumdisplay.php?8-Dev-Tracker

Look how far you have to go to find our CMs name. Better yet see how many times he follows up on any of his replys.

doctordabs
02-12-2016, 02:43 PM
thus giving up

Mayday
02-12-2016, 03:02 PM
What crazyged said about clan revolving doors should be permanently mounted on the patch notes and written in gold. This statement says everything I've been trying to say for nearly a year now.

DEATHBRINGER210
02-12-2016, 03:05 PM
we are the abandoned baby at the fire house safe zone

Xyorg
02-17-2016, 08:31 AM
Out of Princeton University website

"When human consciousness becomes coherent, the behavior of random systems may change. Random number generators (RNGs) based on quantum tunneling produce completely unpredictable sequences of zeroes and ones. But when a great event synchronizes the feelings of millions of people, our network of RNGs becomes subtly structured. We calculate one in a trillion odds that the effect is due to chance. The evidence suggests an emerging noosphere or the unifying field of consciousness described by sages in all cultures"

as i've recently stated several times the brainwave we produce depending on our state of mind and general opinion that those guys get lots of jp just makes them get more

check source and find more but RNGs have been scientificly prooven to not be random at this day and age

http://noosphere.princeton.edu

barbelhunter
02-17-2016, 09:17 AM
I keep reading the word entitlement on these rng threads, Is wanting better than a useless t3 mod and weapon entitlement? I think not. I've played for a year and place highly in all pve I do (yes I know this matters not) and I have never had a jp drop from an ark and average about 3 bad ojs from each event from many hours play.

I used to get nice t4s which I've built some of my best weapons from but these well rolled t4s never drop for me anymore and the af cost would prevent it anyway as there's so many things that need it.

So for me a token system where I can save to get a decent weapon would be perfect and yes such weapons should be untradable to stop people abusing it.

hempman
02-17-2016, 10:10 AM
heres your RnG that cant possibly be giving out multiple weapons of the exact same kind in a single crate/box.
because theres nothing wrong with the RnG,its working as intended right?

wrong.
see pic/proof.
9870

Flash Avik
02-17-2016, 10:23 AM
Just make it rain jackpots on everyone!!!!! :)

Fallen_Aingeal
02-17-2016, 10:24 AM
I keep reading the word entitlement on these rng threads, Is wanting better than a useless t3 mod and weapon entitlement? I think not. I've played for a year and place highly in all pve I do (yes I know this matters not) and I have never had a jp drop from an ark and average about 3 bad ojs from each event from many hours play.

I used to get nice t4s which I've built some of my best weapons from but these well rolled t4s never drop for me anymore and the af cost would prevent it anyway as there's so many things that need it.

So for me a token system where I can save to get a decent weapon would be perfect and yes such weapons should be untradable to stop people abusing it.Wanting and demanding for whatever reason are 2 different things...

Naturally, we want the best gear. But, to claim that we should get it just because we've done a gazillion arkfalls, placed high on scoreboard, etc, is entitlement. Plain and simple...

Lithova
02-17-2016, 10:39 AM
I don't understand why they are so adamant on keeping this extemely poor loot distribution system. The RNG does work in that its randomly number generating..but that's all that really works about it. This game is so reliant on RNG and poor loot table distribution. It needs to be replaced or overhauled. But I doubt that will happen anytime soon if at all. No as we've seen they are content with this system and that's the problem.

barbelhunter
02-17-2016, 11:53 AM
Fallen I was explaining my situation in game and why I think a token based system would be good for those who don't have the luck some do.
I don't feel I should get a jp from every ark I do but the chance to save even if over a few events to get one would be great.

But that word entitled just seems to get slapped in every rng thread when it's not needed, same as soon as someone mentions pvp it's there skill level and nothing else.

As a regular reader of the forums I see it a lot and this will only serve to stop people posting when they have a legitimate concern or worry and may even make them just give up the game.

konstantinov
02-17-2016, 12:22 PM
Fallen I was explaining my situation in game and why I think a token based system would be good for those who don't have the luck some do.
I don't feel I should get a jp from every ark I do but the chance to save even if over a few events to get one would be great.

But that word entitled just seems to get slapped in every rng thread when it's not needed, same as soon as someone mentions pvp it's there skill level and nothing else.

As a regular reader of the forums I see it a lot and this will only serve to stop people posting when they have a legitimate concern or worry and may even make them just give up the game.

If that's the case I think your suggested RnG should carry over to lottery tickets so I can eventually win.

#rigged

Ea Rapture
02-17-2016, 04:18 PM
heres your RnG that cant possibly be giving out multiple weapons of the exact same kind in a single crate/box.
because theres nothing wrong with the RnG,its working as intended right?

wrong.
see pic/proof.
9870

You do realize you could've just as easily taken a picture of the vendor screen after vendoring the other garbage that wasn't a shotgun or Sniper. If you're going to present "proof" turn on the option to see rewards in the chat. Then buy a lockbox, and take a picture of your chat. The chat Loot rewards have never showed false info for me and I suspect it'll do the same for you.

Thanks.

hempman
02-17-2016, 08:12 PM
You do realize you could've just as easily taken a picture of the vendor screen after vendoring the other garbage that wasn't a shotgun or Sniper. If you're going to present "proof" turn on the option to see rewards in the chat. Then buy a lockbox, and take a picture of your chat. The chat Loot rewards have never showed false info for me and I suspect it'll do the same for you.

Thanks.
what i do realize,is some of you will troll no matter whats proven.
so,your opinion means naught.

ps,its not a rigged photo,
and if u had a half a brain youd realize this as the egos are all the same number except the one is a 100 less,
which is a common occurrence.
this actually proves other players claims of receiving a 100 less ego than what they are as well.
the screen you are seeing is the vendor sell screen,which means they were actually in my Inventory.
you know,like right after you open the Crate!!....duh.
the shotty and snipers did get vendored except for the oj,which i gave away.
thanks again for your " treasured " input.
maybe you can keep it to yourself next time.

edited:
i found a pic i took of my claims area same time,
as i was thrilled to death with the massive amounts of purples and ojs ive been getting........................................... .
not.
its a megafest of the blues.

check the ego level tho,at the bottom.
9873

Ea Rapture
02-17-2016, 10:15 PM
what i do realize,is some of you will troll no matter whats proven.
so,your opinion means naught.

ps,its not a rigged photo,
and if u had a half a brain youd realize this as the egos are all the same number except the one is a 100 less,
which is a common occurrence.
this actually proves other players claims of receiving a 100 less ego than what they are as well.
the screen you are seeing is the vendor sell screen,which means they were actually in my Inventory.
you know,like right after you open the Crate!!....duh.
the shotty and snipers did get vendored except for the oj,which i gave away.
thanks again for your " treasured " input.
maybe you can keep it to yourself next time.

edited:
i found a pic i took of my claims area same time,
as i was thrilled to death with the massive amounts of purples and ojs ive been getting........................................... .
not.
its a megafest of the blues.

check the ego level tho,at the bottom.
9873

I simply stated that your "proof" could easily be falsified. Whether it's true or not, isn't my place to say. We're I dev, I still wouldn't see it as proof. If you had a video of you opening 100 separate crates, I'd consider the possibility if the numbers seemed rather high, however, 100 is still a rather small sample size and I'd need the weighting of all players to verify or falsify anything, which won't happen unless viewed under close inspection in a set environment.

Also, your lack of proper etiquette and rudeness towards my helping you, was uncalled for; you really deserve the terrible "RNG" you think so lowly of.

Please try to insult me better next time, thanks Pumpkin.

I get decent gear and I barely play, maybe you should play less, might help. Lol.

Octo
02-17-2016, 10:24 PM
This event is gr... well, was great. Some nice guns, nice synergy, nice dual-nano, I was excited for once.
After 2000 majors I'm still waiting for an Oj Tachmag. See, I don't even talk about a Sweet Nothings !
I spend my entire time to find majors, kill things 8 hours/day and I can't get what I want ? Well that's very encouraging for sure.
Can we talk about the weighted rng ? About my 250 tactical scopes and sustained power muzzles and my 2 power bores ? About the ratio between a billion smurfs and one or two legendaries ? This is madness. Or sparta.

It's an event for god's sake, if you don't want to do anything about the "regular rng" it's ok, but if you can't give us something good during a "celebration" then just stop doing events.
Love and freaky pheromones are in the air, sure, well we don't have wings, kick their butts so they can reach the ground.
And this, is my constructive criticism of the day. :(

Ea Rapture
02-17-2016, 10:37 PM
This is madness. Or sparta.

I think I love you. Lol. This comment alone made my day.

Princess Daisy
02-18-2016, 08:04 AM
Why not just ask them how they're testing RNG? Or file a bug after doing some testing in PTS?

It wouldn't surprise me at all if there was a bug given how hard RNG is to test. That being said, bugs are just part of Defiance's history ... the game has had so many serious defects since day one and its only gotten worse in the past few months (connectivity, rigs/chips, cloning items, forge, drops, effects, rolls) ... RNG bugs seem small in comparison.

Three responses I've seen... post/complain and hope someone will listen (doubtful), give up and quit the game, accept it.

hempman
02-18-2016, 09:39 AM
I simply stated that your "proof" could easily be falsified. Whether it's true or not, isn't my place to say. We're I dev, I still wouldn't see it as proof. If you had a video of you opening 100 separate crates, I'd consider the possibility if the numbers seemed rather high, however, 100 is still a rather small sample size and I'd need the weighting of all players to verify or falsify anything, which won't happen unless viewed under close inspection in a set environment.

Also, your lack of proper etiquette and rudeness towards my helping you, was uncalled for; you really deserve the terrible "RNG" you think so lowly of.

Please try to insult me better next time, thanks Pumpkin.

I get decent gear and I barely play, maybe you should play less, might help. Lol.

yeah yeah we dont care about You,get it??
this is for the devs and all they would have to do is check the account and theyd see it.
thats what id do,if i were a dev,and tbh,they never got back w me after the last time so yeah.
so all your snarky comments,are just trolling on a post intended for the devs.
itd be nice if the mods would give you some words of advice concerning trolling.

A_D3MON
02-18-2016, 09:47 AM
yeah yeah we dont care about You,get it??
this is for the devs and all they would have to do is check the account and theyd see it.
thats what id do,if i were a dev,and tbh,they never got back w me after the last time so yeah.
so all your snarky comments,are just trolling on a post intended for the devs.
itd be nice if the mods would give you some words of advice concerning trolling.

Au contraire, i think they mean if the other players were to believe it would be best to use the system chat settings as proof so that other players don't call BS as often... this thread might be pointed towards the devs but I've yet to see one actually comment here so all you have is other players/forum members here right now and just showing inventory or sell tab doesn't really prove anything to the other players... but yea all in all, all i saw was someone trying to help you with providing irrefutable proof for everyone to see

besides Trolling = The art of deliberately, cleverly, and secretly pissing people off, usually via the internet, using dialogue. Trolling does not mean just making rude remarks: Shouting swear words at someone doesn't count as trolling; it's just flaming, and isn't funny. Spam isn't trolling either; it pisses people off, but it's lame.

The most essential part of trolling is convincing your victim that either a) truly believe in what you are saying, no matter how outrageous, or b) give your victim malicious instructions, under the guise of help.
Trolling requires decieving; any trolling that doesn't involve decieving someone isn't trolling at all; it's just stupid. As such, your victim must not know that you are trolling; if he does, you are an unsuccesful troll. (source: urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling)

hempman
02-18-2016, 09:55 AM
ty demon for explaining that.
im not sure what system settings you mean either,as i turned off most of the onscreen stuff long time ago.
regardless,this has happened before,and now has happened again.
as i pointed out before,
trion could simply scan my account and see that im posting a truthful and accurate picture of some messed up rng.

and,this guy and the other guy,do troll.
seems like thats all they do,is make snarky comments and try to cause turmoil.
so far theyve called me a liar,a cheater,and a thief.
if thats not trolling,then im not sure what is.

A_D3MON
02-18-2016, 09:59 AM
ty demon for explaining that.
im not sure what system settings you mean either,as i turned off most of the onscreen stuff long time ago.
regardless,this has happened before,and now has happened again.
as i pointed out before,
trion could simply scan my account and see that im posting a truthful and accurate picture of some messed up rng.

and,this guy and the other guy,do troll.
seems like thats all they do,is make snarky comments and try to cause turmoil.
so far theyve called me a liar,a cheater,and a thief.
if thats not trolling,then im not sure what is.

it would be in the chat settings for which you would like to see... settings tab obviously... it's off by default... i normally have it set to tabs 1 and 4 since i really only use tabs 2 and 3... and they never called you an outright liar that i saw... just said that the picture could be easily falsified (which i'm sure you know a lot of people enjoy doing just to make people mad) and plus the advice about making a video of it happening is probably the best advice I've saw about that...

Quicksilver1492
02-18-2016, 10:03 AM
Is wanting better than a useless t3 mod and weapon entitlement? I think not.

How is a T3 mod useless? Compared to what? It's not like you are having to use T1 mods instead of T5 ones. They are only a step up in a percentage. Is a 9% damage increase that much more important than a measly 7%? You might as well say T4 mods are useless if you only want T5 mods on your gun.

A_D3MON
02-18-2016, 10:05 AM
How is a T3 mod useless? Compared to what? It's not like you are having to use T1 mods instead of T5 ones. They are only a step up in a percentage. Is a 9% damage increase that much more important than a measly 7%? You might as well say T4 mods are useless if you only want T5 mods on your gun.

i normally don't give a **** when it comes to modding... i'll use t2s as i only want to get the effect

hempman
02-18-2016, 10:06 AM
how in the world would i know its gonna happen in time to set up a video of it happening?
i mean,i can take a video of opening crates but most of what youd see is shottys n snipers n shields,
which would show the whacked rng ive been complaining about.
the identical weapons thingy has happened 3 times.
im not sure how-to prove Those,But if theyd just check Now before its too late,theyd at least see the latest one.

the posts i was referring to were removed by a moderator previously,its just the same 2 guys over n over.

A_D3MON
02-18-2016, 10:10 AM
how in the world would i know its gonna happen in time to set up a video of it happening?
i mean,i can take a video of opening crates but most of what youd see is shottys n snipers n shields,
which would show the whacked rng ive been complaining about.
the identical weapons thingy has happened 3 times.
im not sure how-to prove Those,But if theyd just check Now before its too late,theyd at least see the latest one.

the posts i was referring to were removed by a moderator previously,its just the same 2 guys over n over.

which is why when i'm able to i'm going to get an hdmi splitter and a recording device so i can record on digital while i play on my tv... so if i see something go haywire i can turn around isolate the footage and be like "this is wrong and something needs to be done about this"

Quicksilver1492
02-18-2016, 10:17 AM
how in the world would i know its gonna happen in time to set up a video of it happening?
i mean,i can take a video of opening crates but most of what youd see is shottys n snipers n shields,
which would show the whacked rng ive been complaining about.
the identical weapons thingy has happened 3 times.
im not sure how-to prove Those,But if theyd just check Now before its too late,theyd at least see the latest one.

the posts i was referring to were removed by a moderator previously,its just the same 2 guys over n over.

I buy a lot of elite lockboxes and I get a sniper or two every time, too, but the elite boxes are just vendor fodder for me. I only buy them for the "chance" at a JP, which has never happened. It's just something to sink my keycodes into. I occasionally get an OJ shield or some gun that I immediately sell back anyway. I gave up expecting anything super nice from them. That's why I don't buy the Expert boxes. Cheaper, yes, but mostly junk, anyway.

Edit: I understand the RNG is skewed on these, but I just don't see them worrying enough about it to fix it.

barbelhunter
02-18-2016, 10:46 AM
How is a T3 mod useless? Compared to what? It's not like you are having to use T1 mods instead of T5 ones. They are only a step up in a percentage. Is a 9% damage increase that much more important than a measly 7%? You might as well say T4 mods are useless if you only want T5 mods on your gun.


They're useless if you or no one else wants them not due to rarity.

hempman
02-18-2016, 11:38 AM
I buy a lot of elite lockboxes and I get a sniper or two every time, too, but the elite boxes are just vendor fodder for me. I only buy them for the "chance" at a JP, which has never happened. It's just something to sink my keycodes into. I occasionally get an OJ shield or some gun that I immediately sell back anyway. I gave up expecting anything super nice from them. That's why I don't buy the Expert boxes. Cheaper, yes, but mostly junk, anyway.

Edit: I understand the RNG is skewed on these, but I just don't see them worrying enough about it to fix it.

its not expecting nice stuff guys,its expecting Not to see the same identical weapons in a single crate.
this has been stated as being Impossible,yet it clearly Is happening.
that was the entire point of me providing the pictures,
so the Dev team can maybe backtrack and figure out whats really going on with this rng.

this is Not a complaint about the way they have the ojs and jps setup,altho i do feel the drop rates are too low.
but thats just my opinion,and not me demanding anything.
hope this helps explain more clearly.

doctordabs
03-01-2016, 03:02 AM
Figured i'd let things on this thread settle a bit before kickin' up some more dust.. Ocho and destro said they never saw this thread soooo back to the front page it goes :)

DEATHBRINGER210
04-02-2016, 01:23 AM
they need to make it more random

Xyorg
04-02-2016, 02:44 AM
they need to make it more random

to make it random needs to be ran on a functioning quantum computer , quantum tunelling is ruining the randomness also i seem unable to type in the threads only copy paste texte wtf ?

DEATHBRINGER210
04-02-2016, 02:58 AM
to make it random needs to be ran on a functioning quantum computer , quantum tunelling is ruining the randomness also i seem unable to type in the threads only copy paste texte wtf ?

the guy who bought 18 rig boxes and got 18 blue rigs all the same type . would say something needs to be done about the rng . and alot feel that way too