PDA

View Full Version : Armistice Premium Elite Lock Box Missing Currency



Destromathe
04-26-2016, 12:08 PM
Hey Everyone,
Recently, there has been some concern regarding the Armistice Premium Elite and Armistice Elite Lock boxes not containing what they were supposed to. This issue first came to our attention over the weekend on Sunday, when a few players were reporting they did not get currency from the Armistice Premium Elite box. This sparked an investigation on our part, which we have now concluded and figured out what the issue is.

For clarity and visibility, I will simplify the issue: the loot tables for these two boxes were accidentally mixed up when released. What this means, quite simply, is that the Premium Elite was the Elite, and vice versa. This affected two things: The premium currency was coming from the Elite boxes, NOT the premium elite, and the Jackpot drop rate of the two boxes were swapped. There was still Arkforge dropping from the premium box, which is an additional currency roll outside of the basic currency one. While this ended up being a good thing for the Elite boxes, players who paid for the premium boxes, were not getting premium content. This is a mistake on our part, and one we entirely aim to rectify.

The unfortunately aspect of this issue is how long it went unnoticed. Unfortunately, this slipped past our QA process, and we did not start getting player reports about this until this past Sunday, probably due to the sale increasing quantities by a good amount. This is our mistake, and we sincerely appreciate all players who reported issues with this so that we could locate the issue before the event ended. We NEVER want players to not get what they paid for. You are the life of this game, and your support of Defiance is paramount to us. We apologize for the time it took for us to identify this issue, but rest assured that now that we have identified it, we WILL take care of this.

In the (NEAR) future, we will be identifying all players who purchased an Armistice Premium Elite lock box. For each box that players purchased (if you purchased 100, you will get 100), we will be providing a special currency box. This box will provide a random currency roll, AND an additional roll on the Jackpot loot table for the Armistice box, at the proper drop rate. This means that everyone will get the currency they deserve, and get an additional chance at getting a jackpot at the correct rate. We will not be removing anything gained from any Armistice box that was purchased, and anyone who got currency from the Elite boxes as well, will certainly be able to keep their loot.

We sincerely hope that this will get everybody back to where they should be, and Premium box purchasers will get a whole lot of additional chances at a jackpot. This was a mistake on our end, and at no point do we intend to leave paid players without the currency and rolls they deserve. Feel free to ask any questions you may have in this thread, as I will be around to answer them.

PS: Customer Service will no longer be offering currency back to players who had issues with this, as we are working on this compensation plan. Thank you for your patience. We will get this out to you all ASAP.

MrHulot
04-26-2016, 12:25 PM
Thanks! I think this happened to me. I bought a box when they went on sale for 1/2 price (160 bitpoints), but I was distracted at the moment of downloading and couldn't be absolutely sure that I failed to get any premium currency. I'm glad you're looking into it.

stefb42
04-26-2016, 12:30 PM
I'd just like to note I reported this issue about a week ago, pretty much got told it was my fault for opening boxes too quick, bought more over weekend and knew the currency wasn't dropping but they were on sale for limited time so waiting for fix wasn't an option, got granted a little of what I missed out on through cs but by no means all, will I still get these 'compensation' lockboxes

Rhettro
04-26-2016, 12:47 PM
The drop rate in JPs from the elite boxes was disturbingly low - glad to see it was a mistake to be honest. Destromathe, I am not sure if you have looked at other boxes, but the Flames of Passion JP drop rates were also especially low (about the same rate I experienced with the Armistice Elite boxes). They did drop premium currency but not much else from a significant number of boxes.

Mister Ree
04-26-2016, 12:59 PM
Soo I had 24 days of pulling premium elite crates in game and never got a single JP? Those "increased" chances suck.

r1p
04-26-2016, 12:59 PM
Credit where credit is due for the remarkable display of transparency on the issue and for doing the right thing for your customers.

Ea Rapture
04-26-2016, 01:19 PM
Credit where credit is due for the remarkable display of transparency on the issue and for doing the right thing for your customers.

Agreed.

I didn't even want to buy more boxes after I bought around 30 of them on the first day. Didn't even notice the lack of currency. I was upset with the Lack of JPs, lol. But thanks Destro, hope we hear an update when these will be granted.

Destromathe
04-26-2016, 01:30 PM
To answer a few questions: Everyone who purchased premium elite boxes will get this compensation, no matter what the situation is. You will get 1 compensatory box for each premium elite purchased.

In regards to the drop rates on other boxes, you can be assured that we triple checked them all, and there are no issues with those.

In regards to Elite boxes (non premium), these actually had increased jackpot rates than the usual amounts, so nothing will be happening for those. The Elite lock box is back to normal after today's update.

Bentu
04-26-2016, 01:56 PM
Soo I had 24 days of pulling premium elite crates in game and never got a single JP? Those "increased" chances suck.

This is exactly what I was about to say, I've no idea how many of these boxes I opened across 3 servers but I do know it was a lot and I didn't get a single jp from them.

If the information we just got about the mix up is true then there's something extremely wrong.

Bentu
04-26-2016, 02:00 PM
To answer a few questions: Everyone who purchased premium elite boxes will get this compensation, no matter what the situation is. You will get 1 compensatory box for each premium elite purchased.

In regards to the drop rates on other boxes, you can be assured that we triple checked them all, and there are no issues with those.

In regards to Elite boxes (non premium), these actually had increased jackpot rates than the usual amounts, so nothing will be happening for those. The Elite lock box is back to normal after today's update.

Sorry Destromathe but something is very wrong with what's going on here.
How can I not pull a single jp from a box that has an increased drop rate.

YahootsMagoondi
04-26-2016, 02:19 PM
so, not only were the bit store guns mistakenly included, but the drop rate of in game (free) boxes was higher than it should have been resulting in more of these guns "in the wild". i know, i'm beating a dead horse and i'm the only one that cares, but it's my horse and i'll do with it as i please.

on a related note, i really think there is something account specific that affects rng. i doubt it is intended, and with the original team long gone may be so hidden as to be almost impossible to find. but, i am even more upset about not pulling a single elite.jp during the event from the vendor boxes. it would be interesting to know how many i opened, guess i should have kept track. i know i opened 10-15 in the bitstore and got bupkus from them too...maybe the compensation boxes will be good to me. speaking of, will you be removing the bit store guns from the compensatory crates?

http://www.allhailtheblackmarket.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/beating-a-dead-horse-.jpg

Bentu
04-26-2016, 02:26 PM
We all care m8 well I do, but I think some secretly wished they would pull one so wouldn't complain.

Chump Norris
04-26-2016, 03:20 PM
Destro thanks for being transparent about what happened and working to resolve it.

Crack
04-26-2016, 08:07 PM
Soo I had 24 days of pulling premium elite crates in game and never got a single JP? Those "increased" chances suck.

This exactly! We've been saying something is wrong with the pre-f2p rng and this increased chance elite mistake still produced ZERO jp's for the crew of 8 that I roll with. I alone pulled 120~150 elite boxes throughout the event and pulled ziltch for jps. I know of newer players that pulled more elite jps than I did in standard ojs alone.

Speaking of noticable changes, a few years back, we used to have an issue with the amount of shields dropping as major rewards, so they removed them from the pools...Well I did a major (cant remember if it was a scrapper or other) within the past month and was rewarded me with 2 shields. Did that get ninja changed?

I wish there was a way we could select our pools...Id never pull another shield/sniper/shotgun/bmg ever again. lol

Bentu
04-26-2016, 10:31 PM
This exactly! We've been saying something is wrong with the pre-f2p rng and this increased chance elite mistake still produced ZERO jp's for the crew of 8 that I roll with. I alone pulled 120~150 elite boxes throughout the event and pulled ziltch for jps. I know of newer players that pulled more elite jps than I did in standard ojs alone.

Speaking of noticable changes, a few years back, we used to have an issue with the amount of shields dropping as major rewards, so they removed them from the pools...Well I did a major (cant remember if it was a scrapper or other) within the past month and was rewarded me with 2 shields. Did that get ninja changed?

I wish there was a way we could select our pools...Id never pull another shield/sniper/shotgun/bmg ever again. lol

Trouble is we don't have the figures to work it out but if we did I'm sure there's people on these boards who could work out what's up with the vets rng.
Many of us still do play and contribute to the running of the game.
Hopefully someone will do something one day.

Ea Rapture
04-27-2016, 01:41 AM
Any Idea when this will be granted destro?

SilverWF
04-27-2016, 01:48 AM
on a related note, i really think there is something account specific that affects rng.

I know, this is conspiralogy, but I can only agree here.
My mate pulled 3 JP from the 64key Armstice Elite box (but he spent a tons of scrips buying keys, honestly) and dropped 4 from AFs. And most of that JPs are Elite JPs. At single character!
And there is another clanmate, who didn't dropped even single JP from AF.

Claydough
04-27-2016, 02:22 AM
Wait, so it was not intended for the elites to drop this currency in the first place?

And here i was applauding you on including a good gesture.

Im also glad people got an insight into what the "improved chances" look like

Ronin9572
04-27-2016, 03:26 AM
Whoa, wait just woke up and reading this. So both premium elite lb's and elite lb's(64 key) were switched with one another. And what currency are we speaking of, script or things such as HR's and chip pullers? Thanks Trion for admitting your mistake. But it sounds like this had even been happening in testing and there were threads of the loot from the beginning of the event. Now your saying you didn't know of this till the last weekend of the event, seriously? Sure I'm not asking for a handout of JP's but how are you truly going to remedy this?? Because it feels like this was just going to be swept under the carpet but too many ppl screamed foul...smh

Olaf
04-27-2016, 04:32 AM
To be honest, did kind of suspect this as the oj drop rate was astronomically higher from those boxes than the normal t4 boxes. I'm happy as didn't spend any money on boxes even though I didn't pull a jp. Just glad someone I know did and managed to trade for the clustershot mk1. Anyone know if it's alot better t6d as kinda blows now the clustershots, haven't used one in years.

SilverWF
04-27-2016, 06:00 AM
Anyway, I thought that getting hunter reqs, chip pullers, JPs from an ordinary 64-key box was an your good will.
But, in fact, it was a mistake.
Good to know...

PithHelmetIrath
04-27-2016, 06:13 AM
Thanks for the transparency, Trion.. only wish that was around years ago, though.

So, until the next in-game event.. "that's all I have to say about that."

barbelhunter
04-27-2016, 06:24 AM
So the boxes where set incorrectly and gave the wrong rewards and ppl are thanking Trion for transparency rather than asking how they can be so incompetent.

I opened 100+ elite boxes during event and now I know that they where actually premium elite lock boxes I'm left with no faith in the rng of this game. That many real money boxes for nothing is beyond a joke. (I know I didn't spend money but this has by far been the best test of the rng system by players and shows how bad it is)

Mister Ree
04-27-2016, 06:24 AM
To be honest, did kind of suspect this as the oj drop rate was astronomically higher from those boxes than the normal t4 boxes. I'm happy as didn't spend any money on boxes even though I didn't pull a jp. Just glad someone I know did and managed to trade for the clustershot mk1. Anyone know if it's alot better t6d as kinda blows now the clustershots, haven't used one in years.


If you don't like it you can always send it my way mate ;)

Bentu
04-27-2016, 07:51 AM
I had a minute or two spare so tried to sort out how many boxes I opened during the event.
So I played on 3 servers xbox eu / na and ps3 na with 8 characters in all.
2 xbox eu
3 xbox na
3 ps3 na

Now I'm not going to include the first day or the last 4 because my internet was down.
I know that I opened 1 box at least per character, my mains I opened more but I'm going to go with 1 box per toon over the 20 days, that's 160 boxes without a jp.

If I'd paid for them in the bits store at roughly £4.00 a pop, that's £640 Devs.

That's not on!

I'd be extremely exasperated and I too would be throwing in the towel.
Then you take into account that the boxes were mixed up well what chance do I and any others in my boat have a chance of getting jps from either of the boxes.
These questions need to be answered and not treated like we're talking to a brick wall and getting a stoney silence.

hempman
04-27-2016, 07:56 AM
what sticks out to me,
is the crates were switched so we had a Improved chance and yet after all those boxes i got a grand total of not One single oj,
much less a named.

so,if we are going to have " transparency " then lets hear the improved jp % rate please.
because otherwise,it looks like you are just leading us around by the nose with a carrot tied to your rng stick.


This is our mistake, and we sincerely appreciate all players who reported issues with this so that we could locate the issue before the event ended.
We NEVER want players to not get what they paid for.
You are the life of this game, and your support of Defiance is paramount to us. We apologize for the time it took for us to identify this issue, but rest assured that now that we have identified it, we WILL take care of this.


We sincerely hope that this will get everybody back to where they should be, and Premium box purchasers will get a whole lot of additional chances at a jackpot. This was a mistake on our end, and at no point do we intend to leave paid players without the currency and rolls they deserve. Feel free to ask any questions you may have in this thread, as I will be around to answer them.
.

okay,then whats the agenda for us people who bought the Freezing Swam rl that was sold Without being Tested and has serious Flaws?
it needs 3 rerolls and even if we managed to sup it,wed still be short one roll.
we paid cash for an Untested weapon,in your Cash bundle.
so we would like to hear about our purchases being Fixed asap.
esp as this was reported to you guys before you posted it live,
and you went ahead and released it anyways.

furthermore,
in your bitstore when you Attempt to find Info on the bundles you are looking at,you cant.
says hit y button for info welll guess what.
it just goes to buy now./xbox 360 na.
perhaps you can look at that as well.

Olaf
04-27-2016, 08:21 AM
If you don't like it you can always send it my way mate ;)

Lol when I t6 it and if it still sucks we can work sumfin out

Arkadia
04-27-2016, 09:12 AM
Just to clarify, for those of us who did buy the premium elite boxes. Will you be going through purchase histories or do we need put in a ticket?

DEATHBRINGER210
04-27-2016, 09:31 AM
take a look at the cyber rig bit boxes too, some1 pulled like 20 blue rigs in a row

Ea Rapture
04-27-2016, 09:42 AM
take a look at the cyber rig bit boxes too, some1 pulled like 20 blue rigs in a row

Why'd they buy cyber rig boxes, that's what expos are for.

DEATHBRINGER210
04-27-2016, 09:51 AM
Why'd they buy cyber rig boxes, that's what expos are for.

i didnt know the guy needed your permission to buy boxes .

Sevrin
04-27-2016, 12:13 PM
Yea I noticed that I was getting more of the so-called premium currency from the Armistice Elite lock boxes and was grateful. But if I am understanding all of this right, I pulled three to five Armistice Premium Elite Lock Boxs a day for the 25 or so days? So how come I pulled zero OJs or JPs over the entire event from these boxes? What does this say?

Edited today for clarity.

r1p
04-27-2016, 01:29 PM
So the boxes where set incorrectly and gave the wrong rewards and ppl are thanking Trion for transparency rather than asking how they can be so incompetent.


The only thing that was apparent to anyone was that the extra currency didn't drop from the premium store boxes. They didn't even have to acknowledge the jackpot drop percentage because there isn't any way for us to verify if it is wrong because jackpots are SUPPOSED to be difficult to pull. So yes, I want them to know that I appreciate that they are doing the right thing. It would have been very simple to only acknowledge the currency issue and save the time and effort of what they are doing now with the added benefit of not having to hear complaints from people who didn't even buy them. If I'm going to call them out on something it's going to be about bugs that have been in the game for a year or more not something that happened that they are trying to take immediate steps to fix.

Bentu
04-27-2016, 02:55 PM
The only thing that was apparent to anyone was that the extra currency didn't drop from the premium store boxes. They didn't even have to acknowledge the jackpot drop percentage because there isn't any way for us to verify if it is wrong because jackpots are SUPPOSED to be difficult to pull. So yes, I want them to know that I appreciate that they are doing the right thing. It would have been very simple to only acknowledge the currency issue and save the time and effort of what they are doing now with the added benefit of not having to hear complaints from people who didn't even buy them. If I'm going to call them out on something it's going to be about bugs that have been in the game for a year or more not something that happened that they are trying to take immediate steps to fix.

Personally I'm not worried about a fix for this most recent fubar it's the whole rng thing allotted to mine and others characters.
How is it possible to open at least 160 crates that are of an increased drop rate and should of been bits store bought and not receive one jp.
Yes it's great Destromathe has been up front about it and I applaud him for it but it doesn't change the fact that the rng in this game is borked regarding certain accounts.

Greybush
04-28-2016, 02:27 AM
So these compensatory boxes will of course contain the jp's they had when I bought them, and not some horrible shotgun...right?

Trogathorna
04-28-2016, 02:32 AM
So these compensatory boxes will of course contain the jp's they had when I bought them, and not some horrible shotgun...right?

Thats why they named it Last Laugh lol

Greybush
04-28-2016, 02:34 AM
Thats why they named it Last Laugh lol

Well played Trog. Wait...you were joking right?

Trogathorna
04-28-2016, 02:37 AM
Well played Trog. Wait...you were joking right?

I most certainly am lol. You know we're all getting Duskfires lol

lightweedhawk
04-28-2016, 08:07 AM
So if i bought 5 from bit store, ill get 5 compensation boxes?

Ea Rapture
04-28-2016, 09:55 AM
I most certainly am lol. You know we're all getting Duskfires lol

Bruh, those Duskies wreck! Just wait, I'll fight you with it.

CM Kiwibird
04-28-2016, 09:58 AM
on a related note, i really think there is something account specific that affects rng.

I know this comes up sometimes but there isn't any account specific RNG. That would be both incredibly complicated and unnecessary. Everybody gets the same RNG. :)

YahootsMagoondi
04-28-2016, 10:24 AM
I know this comes up sometimes but there isn't any account specific RNG. That would be both incredibly complicated and unnecessary. Everybody gets the same RNG. :)

well, i used to work in programming and have used various methods to create random numbers. i am not saying it is intentional. but what i'm saying is the original dev team may have done something one way and now a change made to something else could have an adverse affect on the way a value is assigned.

i'm not trying to play tin foil hat, but with as large a sample size as there should be during events, the same players pulling multiple jp while others can't even pull an oj gives me cause for concern. saying the rng works fine may technically be true. the rng does its job and spits out a number. but how that number is used to determine loot could have other variables that aren't even known.

again, it doesn't really matter because we're never going to see the code and the answer is always going to be it's fine and working as intended. but remember, you also told me the mk i bit store guns weren't in the armistice crate and then proceeded to post a list that had them, then posted a list that didn't have them, and then destro had to "sorry, not sorry" admit they were in there. so you'll have to accept my apology if everything we hear from official sources is taken with a HUGE grain of salt...

Hexthat
04-28-2016, 10:27 AM
I know this comes up sometimes but there isn't any account specific RNG. That would be both incredibly complicated and unnecessary. Everybody gets the same RNG. :)

why some clanmates pull 10+ jps from majors and others zero? not just from 1 event but every event

it's not like they are doing more majors

hempman
04-28-2016, 10:32 AM
yeah id like to hear an Actual Specific Number for the improved jp chances as well.
after finding out we opened over 3 WEEKS worth and not One single oj,
i truly think someones lying to us and just milking us like fools.

and,the rng is Bs.
i got ANOTHER crate with 3 of the
Exact Same Identical weapons AGAIN.
this makes 4 times now,and to this day not one official explanation.

in fact its been officially posted that it Cant happen.
yet its Happened 4 times now,and thats just me reporting this no telling how many others got screwed.
how about some " transparency " on this subject??

jerdan
04-28-2016, 10:51 AM
I know this comes up sometimes but there isn't any account specific RNG. That would be both incredibly complicated and unnecessary. Everybody gets the same RNG. :)

This again....was not going to post this on here as I dont intended for it to be taken as flaming, etc etc....but for us day 1 vets who always have the same issue with rng....its easier and more consistent to believe that there is something to our account specifics that do affect rng. There are several vets who have had their accounts looked into and since some action was taken, have since had much better regards to "rng".

My rng for instance, I spent over 250.00(yeah...yeah..I know) and didnt get one jp from the fop boxes. 4 ojs in that span and two of those were mods. I spend 50.00 on my brothers account and pull 1 jp, 5 oj weapons and 3 oj mods. Do this a couple more times to get approx the same results...first 50 nailed a jp, 3 oj weapons and 3 oj mods...yay...2nd 50.00 did not get a jp but did get 8 weapons, 6 mods.

My point is this, it was stated long ago that several original veteran accounts had an issue that did pan into a problem with their account and rng. Steps were listed to take with customer support to have this looked into. etc etc...but No....not every gets the same rng..These posts have since been pulled from the forums as I am guessing in an attempt to not create more backlash. ..or maybe everyone does get the same rng applied to different sided dies lol.


As for the event, I pulled a whopping total of 5 event ojs....no jps except the repeated nontradeables that have most since gone to claims. emancipators and afterlifes are cool...but I dont need 5 of them.

The funny thing is, prior to the arkforge nerf(the original one prior to free to play) a lot of us were able to farm and to do things that would alleviate some of the rng staleness. Nowadays, after all of the scoring nerfs, rewared nerfs, etc...its no wonder the player database of vets who no longer play this game is so high. I cant help but wonder why the true veterans of the game, no offense to any free to play player or year two player and beyond, but wonder why these veterans are the ones who put a ton of their money into the game only to be reprimanded to be hmmm....whats the word I am looking for...

Bentu
04-28-2016, 11:25 AM
I know this comes up sometimes but there isn't any account specific RNG. That would be both incredibly complicated and unnecessary. Everybody gets the same RNG. :)

I'm sorry Kiwi, I love and respect you to bits but there's something definitely wrong with the vets rng.
I can only speak from experience and even considering starting an alt account when my xbox live runs out for Bentu just to try and prove the point.
But then I ask myself why should I have to do this when this issue is with Trions code.
My creating an alt account will prove nothing to the devs as you'll just continue to say it's the rng is working as intended.
Trouble is that working as intended on a vet account is detrimental to that player so I guess we should all go out and create new characters buy a load of inventory space and transfer across what gear we can that isn't locked.

hempman
04-28-2016, 11:30 AM
I cant help but wonder why the true veterans of the game, no offense to any free to play player or year two player and beyond, but wonder why these veterans are the ones who put a ton of their money into the game only to be reprimanded to be hmmm....whats the word I am looking for...
passion...dedication..enthusiasm...orrrr...Sucker?
any of those words fit the bill?

and they get reprimanded more than any new members do...why?
because they were Dedicated members of this game?
and now are treated like lepers because they truly know how little has been fixed on the game?
and actually point out things and then get whacked for pointing them out?

yeahhhhh...kind of the Worst support ive ever seen for a video game.
sure would like to hear some more " transparency on this rng bs too.

also want to hear how we ALL were pulling the High dollar crates for 3 weeks and yet seems like NONE of us got Any ojs,much less Jps??
so yeah,tell us more about the improved chances at a jp please.
and spare us the lies.

Xyorg
04-28-2016, 11:58 AM
I know this comes up sometimes but there isn't any account specific RNG. That would be both incredibly complicated and unnecessary. Everybody gets the same RNG. :)

that may be so but as i have numerously stated and on various other RNG concern related threads , Computational RNGs using algorythms are ran on computers system using a technologie that is wildly affected by a physical phenomenon called quantum tunnelling causing somes keys of the algorythm to function improperly to generate tru binary code a numeral serie that is our RNG roll and determines our loot ,

this phenomenon beeing increased by the humain brain waves activity , a certain person could have a resonance with the algoryth's keys and grants him more jackpot rolls , aswell as a person could have the oposite type of bad rolls over and over , this explains that you have been claiming that getting twice the same weapon from a same box on consecutiv boxes is not something that is possible , yet has been put into evidence in many treads and experienced by many , this is due to the worldwide network of background humain brainwaves because of this RNG has to go , from various aspect of the games not all , effort base rewards are long due ,

will be PMing you again and the rest of the dev team, so you hear what a vet of 3 years, that aswell as some of ppls i know have contributed for a value of over 2000 dollars by individual, will be expecting you to work for ,
Namely ; new game mechanics and real new weapons suggestion , finally putting to use what are mentionned in contracts , why do we get piece of the scrapper arkbrain for or cocoon samples for varus for , to revitalize all this Make a crafting skin system , that would allow a gun's skin to be extrapolated into a formula wich could be crafted to have an applyable skin to another gun of the same type. Or one thing your about to do with chips you should have done box for specific type of guns way back already

also at this age of growing influence trough the social networks , gamers are on the verge of following in the step of the workers union into a game-payers union , reuniting all paying players into a union with specific task on wich to have you focus instead of getting new bitstore syns or 3 years old costumes placed in bundles with outrageous price

if any paying players is interested in joining a said union please PM me id love to set this all up , only One solution , Formal Protest or go on pay strike !

Destromathe
04-28-2016, 12:00 PM
Hey All,

So there is a reason that we do not have lengthy discussions regarding RNG in Defiance, and that is something called Confirmation Bias. Confirmation bias is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.

Having discussions about topics that have clear confirmation bias is very difficult, as sometimes its not about statistics or coding facts, its more about how it makes you feel, and the preconceptions that follow based on those feelings.

We appreciate absolutely everything about veteran players in Defiance. If anyone feels as though they are not appreciated, then I apologize, and that is something we are constantly working on improving. But I will say this loud and clear, there is nothing, in the current code or the original code, that causes one character or account to have different RNG than any other character or account in the game. In some games, this is a feature that is added, such as a safety net for players who do not login often. If this was the case, I would simply not be here telling you this.

Veteran accounts are exactly the same as all other accounts based on the game code. The only difference is the time played, which affects nothing. This is us being 100% transparent on the subject, and we have all of the factual evidence that we need to support it. When dealing with topics such as RNG, it can easily bring around issues with confirmation bias, and when you get that feeling, no one can tell you different.

Now in regards to drop rates, there are clearly different drop rates in game for certain boxes, events, expeditions, co-ops, ect. We will never reveal these drop rates, because this is an item based game where the chase of items is paramount, and the % chance takes all entertainment value out of that. That being said, I can tell you for certain that the paid boxes that players purchase, are absolutely better than the Key boxes on the vendor. They are designed that way for a reason, because supporting Defiance should absolutely get you better loot. I do sincerely hope that players can see past the veteran issues that they believe are there, and simply enjoy the game, and give us great feedback on how we can help you enjoy it further.

I do hope that this helps clear things up for some, and for those that it does not, we appreciate every second that you spend in Defiance, and will continue working hard to make sure that we offer you more of the best experiences that we can. Thanks for listening all!

Bentu
04-28-2016, 12:32 PM
that may be so but as i have numerously stated and on various other RNG concern related threads , Computational RNGs using algorythms are ran on computers system using a technologie that is wildly affected by a physical phenomenon called quantum tunnelling causing somes keys of the algorythm to function improperly to generate tru binary code a numeral serie that is our RNG roll and determines our loot ,

this phenomenon beeing increased by the humain brain waves activity , a certain person could have a resonance with the algoryth's keys and grants him more jackpot rolls , aswell as a person could have the oposite type of bad rolls over and over , this explains that you have been claiming that getting twice the same weapon from a same box on consecutiv boxes is not something that is possible , yet has been put into evidence in many treads and experienced by many , this is due to the worldwide network of background humain brainwaves because of this RNG has to go , from various aspect of the games not all , effort base rewards are long due ,

will be PMing you again and the rest of the dev team, so you hear what a vet of 3 years, that aswell as some of ppls i know have contributed for a value of over 2000 dollars by individual, will be expecting you to work for ,
Namely ; new game mechanics and real new weapons suggestion , finally putting to use what are mentionned in contracts , why do we get piece of the scrapper arkbrain for or cocoon samples for varus for , to revitalize all this Make a crafting skin system , that would allow a gun's skin to be extrapolated into a formula wich could be crafted to have an applyable skin to another gun of the same type. Or one thing your about to do with chips you should have done box for specific type of guns way back already

also at this age of growing influence trough the social networks , gamers are on the verge of following in the step of the workers union into a game-payers union , reuniting all paying players into a union with specific task on wich to have you focus instead of getting new bitstore syns or 3 years old costumes placed in bundles with outrageous price

if any paying players is interested in joining a said union please PM me id love to set this all up , only One solution , Formal Protest or go on pay strike !

Sorry for quoting the whole thing but I'm on a phone and editing that lot would be impossible.

But take what I'm about to say seriously.

The last person who tried to organise a protest had his forum and in game accounts banned.
3 years of community work and game play gone.
Don't say i didn't tell you.

Quicksilver1492
04-28-2016, 12:36 PM
That still doesn't explain why nearly every Elite or even Expert lockbox I buy gives me primarily shotguns or snipers. A lot of times it will be 2 of the exact same gun, maybe a T3 and a T4 of each. Why is this? It seems to be all I ever get, with a random pistol or bmg or infector thrown in every now and then. Usually the only truly random stuff I get is when an OJ drops. Out of all the possible weapon types and variants available in the game, why does it seem like I am stuck in some sort of RNG Hell? You can't really call it bias based on a conceived notion of getting crap drops compared to everyone else. It's obviously something else at work here. Random is random but rolling for 2 of the same gun, and often times over and over, seems a bit off to me. You would think that all weapons would be in the loot pool and all of them would have the same chance at dropping, but it feels like it is weighted to drop certain weapon types more than others. Like the percent numbers are in some sort of ascending or descending order. I don't know. I would think that for something to be truly random, there would be more variety in drops. When I can basically predict what I am going to get, it seems to be less random than I thought. On a side note, I have also noticed cycles in what lockboxes drop as extras. There are days that I can buy several crates from separate vendors and they will all drop AF for me, or will all drop grenades, if I buy them all one after the other. Almost like it is scheduled to do that. It's weird.

Bentu
04-28-2016, 12:39 PM
Hey All,

So there is a reason that we do not have lengthy discussions regarding RNG in Defiance, and that is something called Confirmation Bias. Confirmation bias is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.

Having discussions about topics that have clear confirmation bias is very difficult, as sometimes its not about statistics or coding facts, its more about how it makes you feel, and the preconceptions that follow based on those feelings.

We appreciate absolutely everything about veteran players in Defiance. If anyone feels as though they are not appreciated, then I apologize, and that is something we are constantly working on improving. But I will say this loud and clear, there is nothing, in the current code or the original code, that causes one character or account to have different RNG than any other character or account in the game. In some games, this is a feature that is added, such as a safety net for players who do not login often. If this was the case, I would simply not be here telling you this.

Veteran accounts are exactly the same as all other accounts based on the game code. The only difference is the time played, which affects nothing. This is us being 100% transparent on the subject, and we have all of the factual evidence that we need to support it. When dealing with topics such as RNG, it can easily bring around issues with confirmation bias, and when you get that feeling, no one can tell you different.

Now in regards to drop rates, there are clearly different drop rates in game for certain boxes, events, expeditions, co-ops, ect. We will never reveal these drop rates, because this is an item based game where the chase of items is paramount, and the % chance takes all entertainment value out of that. That being said, I can tell you for certain that the paid boxes that players purchase, are absolutely better than the Key boxes on the vendor. They are designed that way for a reason, because supporting Defiance should absolutely get you better loot. I do sincerely hope that players can see past the veteran issues that they believe are there, and simply enjoy the game, and give us great feedback on how we can help you enjoy it further.

I do hope that this helps clear things up for some, and for those that it does not, we appreciate every second that you spend in Defiance, and will continue working hard to make sure that we offer you more of the best experiences that we can. Thanks for listening all!

Again apologies for posting the lot.

Destromathe I opened approximately 160 in game boxes that should of been bits store boxes and didn't get a single jp from them.
Sorry I can't agree with you bias or not.

Sevrin
04-28-2016, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Destromath: "... That being said, I can tell you for certain that the paid boxes that players purchase, are absolutely better than the Key boxes on the vendor. They are designed that way for a reason, because supporting Defiance should absolutely get you better loot..."

Wow. If this is the case. Then this thread becomes very illuminating. Because, if I am understanding this thread correctly, then of the 125 to 150 "paid" for boxes I pulled during the Armistice event (because of the switching error) I should have received "absolutely better" loot than I would have if I had been pulling regular boxes. Well, I did receive the premium currency but received exactly zero JPs or OJs. Think about it. The implications are staggering for those "supporting Defiance" -- sad to say.

Hunter0
04-28-2016, 01:13 PM
Hey All,

So there is a reason that we do not have lengthy discussions regarding RNG in Defiance, and that is something called Confirmation Bias. Confirmation bias is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.

Having discussions about topics that have clear confirmation bias is very difficult, as sometimes its not about statistics or coding facts, its more about how it makes you feel, and the preconceptions that follow based on those feelings.

We appreciate absolutely everything about veteran players in Defiance. If anyone feels as though they are not appreciated, then I apologize, and that is something we are constantly working on improving. But I will say this loud and clear, there is nothing, in the current code or the original code, that causes one character or account to have different RNG than any other character or account in the game. In some games, this is a feature that is added, such as a safety net for players who do not login often. If this was the case, I would simply not be here telling you this.

Veteran accounts are exactly the same as all other accounts based on the game code. The only difference is the time played, which affects nothing. This is us being 100% transparent on the subject, and we have all of the factual evidence that we need to support it. When dealing with topics such as RNG, it can easily bring around issues with confirmation bias, and when you get that feeling, no one can tell you different.

Now in regards to drop rates, there are clearly different drop rates in game for certain boxes, events, expeditions, co-ops, ect. We will never reveal these drop rates, because this is an item based game where the chase of items is paramount, and the % chance takes all entertainment value out of that. That being said, I can tell you for certain that the paid boxes that players purchase, are absolutely better than the Key boxes on the vendor. They are designed that way for a reason, because supporting Defiance should absolutely get you better loot. I do sincerely hope that players can see past the veteran issues that they believe are there, and simply enjoy the game, and give us great feedback on how we can help you enjoy it further.

I do hope that this helps clear things up for some, and for those that it does not, we appreciate every second that you spend in Defiance, and will continue working hard to make sure that we offer you more of the best experiences that we can. Thanks for listening all!


The majority is not happy with the current loot system!!

Xyorg
04-28-2016, 01:44 PM
The majority is not happy with the current loot system!!


made abunduntly clear , we want to control at least part of RNG , be it the weap type with deto , Ars only etc crates , or syn specific , but stop with the pursuit , we like the game we will always find something to pursue , endless grind or wallet spontaneous combustion we simply are not nearly close enough to a satisfactory methode of loot distribution , make this a nb1 priority to revolutionize in defiance cause speaking for only 2 players wich amount to 5400 euro you got from ps3 EU server only from us , im saving for stocks in ur compagny now befor i give a cent in game again

Greybush
04-28-2016, 02:04 PM
Soooo...I suppose I'll ask again. Will the compensatory boxes have a shot at the jp's that were in the boxes when I bought them. Or will I have an abysmal chance at that dreadful shotgun only?

Claydough
04-28-2016, 02:06 PM
I agree with pretty much everything said,

However i think people that buy rng crates from the bit store should know exactally what they are getting.

They should know the exact chances they have if pulling the jackpot, pulling ojs and T5 mods.
And if you think disclosing this info would hurt your sales, well then you might see why so many players just feel so scammed.

And about the premium gear...
I dont think this is exactally true. I have bought ALOT of crates over the years and have bought enough to know there is alot of high tier junk watering down the actual premium stuff.
Im talking T5 melee stocks, T5 falloff, T5 sights and scopes no one uses, massive amounts of nanoless weapons in these premium crates.

And its these reasons i have more or less stopped spending money on any rng.

Bentu
04-28-2016, 02:45 PM
Soooo...I suppose I'll ask again. Will the compensatory boxes have a shot at the jp's that were in the boxes when I bought them. Or will I have an abysmal chance at that dreadful shotgun only?

Destromathe says here that you will.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?240199-Armistice-Premium-Elite-Lock-Box-Missing-Currency&p=1908342&viewfull=1#post1908342

Destromathe
04-28-2016, 02:59 PM
We put in a hotfix last night to add the compensation box, and are working on getting all the data for players who purchased the boxes. Rest assured that the compensation will go out very soon!

YahootsMagoondi
04-28-2016, 04:13 PM
So there is a reason that we do not have lengthy discussions regarding RNG in Defiance, and that is something called Confirmation Bias. Confirmation bias is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors.

the problem with confirmation bias in this situation for me is not that i feel like i don't get any jackpots and everybody else does, rather it seems like i can give a list of people who are going to pull multiple jps each event and a list of people who will grind the entire event and not see one. in a normal distribution across such a large sample size, these statistics should not be so predictive or follow the same distribution every time, and yet here we are. this is why so many people feel that there should be more transparency.


Now in regards to drop rates, there are clearly different drop rates in game for certain boxes, events, expeditions, co-ops, ect. We will never reveal these drop rates, because this is an item based game where the chase of items is paramount, and the % chance takes all entertainment value out of that. That being said, I can tell you for certain that the paid boxes that players purchase, are absolutely better than the Key boxes on the vendor. They are designed that way for a reason, because supporting Defiance should absolutely get you better loot.

as for that transparency on drop rates, consider the amount of money people spend in casinos or buying lottery tickets... no matter how bad the numbers are, there are plenty of people willing to throw money on games of chance. in essence, the loot system in defiance is no different. i play defiance because i enjoy it and i enjoy spending time with the people i have met in game. i have spent plenty of money supporting the game even though i know the drop rates are not great. knowing the exact drop rates is not going to change that. perhaps being able to actually do the math and knowing my true odds would make me feel better and disprove the confirmation bias you claim i have. however, as long as you continue to claim that everything is fine and we're all conspiracy theorists and that releasing the numbers would harm our entertainment value, then we're going to be at an impasse and it is going to drive more people away than it attracts.

my son has recently started playing cs:go and i have done some research on their crate system and read several lengthy articles about the odds for pulling certain rarities and items. honestly, the more i know, the more i want to throw him some money in his steam account to open crates. obviously, part of the appeal there is the ability to sell skins for actual money, but i don't think that is a system defiance needs.

i also read a fascinating article about adjusting loot drops through a modified non-replacement draw system in which more jps chances could be added to the pool for every roll in which a jp is not earned, up to a certain percentage, where the chance would be greatly improved the more time or money one spent trying to earn a jp.

my final thought on this is there needs to be a simple database query done in the jp draw, so that when a jp is earned it checks the player's inv and does not assign a duplicate jp if possible. everybody has different preferences and being rewarded a jp should at least feel special, but it's not special when you pull several of the same jp after spending time and/or money on the chance.

that is all.

Dragon06
04-28-2016, 04:42 PM
I pulled maybe 60 of these boxes during the event and received no JPs. Got about 5 OJs, nothing special, which is about the same rate from the key bought boxes. What this has taught me, not to spend money on these boxes, 60 premium elite boxes represents around $165 real money. And after reading that people pulled 160 boxes or so and received no JPs, there is no way that I am throwing money away. I might buy a few specialty boxes if I like the synergy or need mods. But not buy elite boxes. I have better luck in Vegas with slot machines. In all my playing I have only pulled 2 JP, both Omec shields from any boxes bought with keys or bits. Between the RNG and drop rates, I see no reason to spend money chasing items that have no real world value. I have supported the game by buying it when it first came out, bought all the DLCs, upgraded to the Ultimate Edition, and have been a Patron. I think I have supported the game. I fully understand that I am not entitled to anything, but odds of success are so bad everyone needs to ask why spend money. Trion needs to consider this and hopefully take action to provide a better player experience for those willing to support the game with money. Its just good business.

Johnny Gatt
04-28-2016, 04:43 PM
I am not going to paste a lengthy quote but here is my opinion.

Customer perception is very important if you are trying to sell a product.

From customer point of view perception is reality.

If the customer perception is that the bit boxes are rigged, then the bit boxes are rigged, despite any statements to the contrary. The challenge for the developers is in how to overcome these perceptions. It would be foolish to rely on your statistics and numbers, even if they are valid, if customer perceptions are not swayed.

Smokey Black
04-28-2016, 04:48 PM
As someone else who opened as many of the Armistice Elite lockboxes as anyone here I also did not get a jp. After it was revealed they were in fact premium elites all this does is reinforced how rare elite lockbox jps are.

LOOKxATxTHISxI
04-28-2016, 06:18 PM
I am starting to believe the odds for oj's and jackpots are similar to the odds of a claw machine. Neither skill nor luck play any role in the capture of the goodies. One claw is always off except for 1 in x amount of attempts.

They may say there is no difference but my history since the beta dealing with my garbage luck drops will show that RNG is a factor if they choose to admit or not. I had a friend who started at launch who spent a couple hundred bucks and spent hours grinding for keys and did not get his first oj until over 2200 ego level. I was at nearly 1500 before my first oj drop in 2013.

If some of our RNG is not somehow borked, then why do I create a f2p mod mule and receive oj's and t4 mods in abundance? I have spent a ton of money on my main toon/alt toon and have received garbage drop after garbage drop. At one point in the latest event I was keeping track of drops and received 14 no nano berserker shottys/and 8 blaster pistols in a row as rewards. How is this random?

Have noticed a lot of shadey foreign players with multiple jackpots for trade, must be nice.

Johnny Gatt
04-28-2016, 07:30 PM
I used to have decent rng until fall of 2014... then it was like someone flipped a switch.
I have gotten a few jps from 64 key elites, but never from premium elites
I have gotten 5 named guns total from drops in event arkfalls since fall 2014. That includes all toons on both consoles.

For those of you that know me, I do a lot of arkfalls during events. I play every day and have opened hundreds of elite boxes.

hempman
04-28-2016, 08:43 PM
wayyy too many great posts to quote.

ill just say this Destro,you Have to look at it from Our side.
we play all the time,and we are the ones opening these boxes And the ones Playing At these Events.
and what everyones telling you is True.
some people will get Jps EVERY time,doesnt matter if they play 1 event or 20.
they somehow get one plop right in their lap.
and its not Random Not from Our point of View.

we also Been telling you about these Crates being Borked with dropping Identical weapons and just useless Junk Forever.
hell,ive sent you pics and Never got a reply......

and after pulling 3 Weeks worth of Super crates and getting NO ojs no t5 mods and hey No jps?
from this supposedly improved jp chance box??
surely you Have to understand why we are all in Disbelief?

we keep telling you this.
we bought a pvE adventure based game,
and you guys keep making it into a you must have this ITEM from the Bitstore Now!
Get the latest synergy!
play the same old same old daily bs but hey Buy this new item/weapon/mod/shield whatever....

when all we want is to have Fun,and yeah sure collect or buy some stuff from your store sure why not.
BUT,we have to feel like we are getting Any kind of value from your stuff,and lately,that isnt happening.
sure hope you understand where we are coming from.

would really like to see the game grow to potential instead of being a cash grab every month.....
theres this Huge map that could be Chock full of new stuff to do...why not Go there??

kkdubz
04-29-2016, 04:40 PM
So, I feel like there needs to be someone on the other side of this but contributing to the whole. Hopefully I can do that.

My GT is Kkdubz25, and I joined defiance approximately 1 month before free to play came into effect. To try to summarize a very lengthy argument, I am more surprised when I don't pull an OJ then when I do. I recently came back from a long hiatus from the game, not because of the game itself, but because of this thing called life. However, I came back with about a week and a half left into this new armistice event. Now I could sit here and talk about all the OJ's I got, and how I got 3 JP's from the event, and didn't even do anywhere near as many as these vet players because I only had half the event, but there is one very specific instance I would like to bring up. After a Christmas Warmaster, I was awarded with two, YES TWO, OJ eternal Mazu blast rifles. One was fire, one was electric. You can check my account, and see that this is true. Anyways, I've asked myself, how probable is it to pull not one, but TWO oj mazus from this one Christmas warmaster. Some people claim that it wasn't even possible, but first time for everything. But that's NOT the bizarre part. Directly after getting those two ojs, and bragging a bit to some of my clannies, because why not right, I pulled a T4 armistice box, using my 64 keys that I had. You wanna guess what happened then? I pulled the "Assault Rifle MKI". So, two ojs from a xmas warmaster, and now a named JP directly after this Warmaster, the best part? I wasn't even shocked.

When it comes to the vets talking about "rng" and this and that, when they bring up the "I know a guy that did this, and did that", I'm that guy. I've never had trouble pulling Oj's, and have gotten my hands on a decent bit Jp's also. There was even a time, (and again, any dev can go and look to see I'm not lying), that within $100 worth of the plate slicer box when it was here, as I have spent money on this game, within those $100 dollars worth of NFH boxes, I pulled 7 JPs, 6 of them, (or 5 tbh it's been a while), were Feasters.

Now I can't pinpoint an area where I can "prove" any RNG issues. But I can say this, as someone who has been in the game, I can personally see the difference between me pulling and a vet pulling boxes. I can give numerous amounts of examples, but that would be redundant to what has already been said. I will not point fingers, or name call, or try to start something. But I feel that this issue of "RNG" is in fact here between players.

If need be, I will offer up all the data I can and give the devs permission to go through my account to see what can be different. Because idk how two of my clannies who are vets can pull boxes out the yin-yang, and get so few ojs, and i get an OJ about 1 in every 4 64 key box. Sometimes better. All I'm saying is that this needs to be taken seriously and needs to be looked at with more dedication. I love my "RNG", but if I'd have to lose it to help prove these vet's stories, then I will gladly be a martyr for this cause.

I really hope the devs can look into this with a little more seriousness. I apologize if anyone sees this as "bragging" or in any negative light, I am just trying to shed light on the "other guy" in the game. Thank you for your time.

hempman
04-29-2016, 04:48 PM
and there it is...
Ty Kkdubz.

well Destro?
weve been telling you somethings wack..now do you believe us?

Bentu
04-29-2016, 05:51 PM
Yeah when my xbl runs out Bentu is going to be taking a gap year, well on xbox anyway.

Xyorg
04-30-2016, 04:22 AM
any update on an ETA for those crates we should be receiving or is it a weekend off this week ?

Infinity Eagle
04-30-2016, 04:53 AM
any update on an ETA for those crates we should be receiving or is it a weekend off this week ?


We put in a hotfix last night to add the compensation box, and are working on getting all the data for players who purchased the boxes. Rest assured that the compensation will go out very soon!
And there you have it, not just "soon But "Very Soon"

Xyorg
04-30-2016, 07:27 AM
thanks saw this one , was looking for a more precise approximation than the , nevertheless acceptable , soon wich stays verry ambigious and interest pilling up each day not done yet is a 3% interest on the bits we spend on those that should be credited again to our bit wallet xP (**wish**), and im cheaper than most banks regarding the interest rate

Fallen_Aingeal
04-30-2016, 09:44 AM
I don't care what they "claim" is working as intended.

And, I'm slightly offended that they want to blame "feelings" on the issue.

The numbers don't lie, Destro.

When I know someone in game that pulled over 25 jp's during this last event, from arkfalls alone, I know that the rng is screwed.

Oh, and fact and numbers are feelingless little bastards!

stefb42
04-30-2016, 03:07 PM
Still waiting for a player who's been playing since the beginning (or near) to chip in and say their rng is amazing and they pull multi jps per event, I know a few players with really good rng luck, but none that have played since start

Nightmare390
05-02-2016, 02:56 PM
any timeline on when boxes will be reimbursed

Destromathe
05-02-2016, 03:22 PM
I have gathered all of the data, and am just waiting on a deploy to get the box in the game. That will be done tomorrow, so in the next day or two we will see those go out. Thanks for your patience!

Nightmare390
05-02-2016, 03:36 PM
thanks for heads up, appreciate it

mastert336
05-02-2016, 04:30 PM
I have gathered all of the data, and am just waiting on a deploy to get the box in the game. That will be done tomorrow, so in the next day or two we will see those go out. Thanks for your patience!

Glad to hear thanks for the update.

Cygnus
05-02-2016, 07:45 PM
Confirmation bias is crap. It just means without hard data you cant prove it. Since devs wont release it we cant.

Here is an example:
lets say every time you drive the interstate and get held up by a slow moving vehicle, you pull along side and notice its an elderly person. confirmation bias states that you only notice BECAUSE its an elderly person, and that causes the bias. It does not prove that elderly drivers dont obstruct traffic.

That is no different than trion generalizing, that only a few post on the forums so the rest are happy.

because the human mind is meant to recognize patterns as part of our survival mechanism.when intuition has been studied, that those who rely on their intuition are more often correct than those that second guess. confirmational bias is a way that an elderly person would argue that its all in your head. But that doesnt make it untrue either.

So we are supposed to believe that drop rates are significantly increased when we spend money but at the same time we are told these items are meant to be rare. So which is it? And how does this encourage us to spend money on this game?

because so many have this so called bias, my intuition is calling bullsh”t. ive been upset with this aspect of the game since I first realized that regardless of the fact that I pre-ordered the ultimate edition,my game experience compared to others was the equivalent of a lottery.

I guess only a few of us get to have fun.

ITS TIME TO MAKE CHANGES TO THE RNG!!!

.......... And I think to myself.......why AM I still here?.....

hempman
05-03-2016, 07:44 AM
I have gathered all of the data, Thanks for your patience!

heyyyy look its that Transparency Guy!!!
so yeah about the Rng and you guys,whens that gonna get Adjusted to Our favor?
do you plan on doing anything about it at all?
or just dont care about our thoughts,despite your posts to the contrary??

youll note ive stopped asking what the current stats are,
because from your lack of replies it fairly obvious its Really Bad.

and hey you do somewhere somehow in a remote area of comprehension realize that we Are the customers and if you keep making the game worse,you wont have any customers...right?

pew pew pew
05-03-2016, 09:12 AM
Entitled much?

Just play the game... during armistice I was luckier (10 from majors, no bmg, not car-matroning) the 3 events before less lucky (0 from majors)...

get over your entitlement, don't search for patterns...

EDIT: Since it seems to hard for some individuals... my post is a reply to pages 7/8 rather than a reply to the actual issue... the topic of this thread...

barbelhunter
05-03-2016, 09:41 AM
Entitled much?

Just play the game... during armistice I was luckier (10 from majors, no bmg, not car-matroning) the 3 events before less lucky (0 from majors)...

get over your entitlement, don't search for patterns...



Did you even read this thread? I have never had a JP from an ark and this isn't a problem, But the boxes were switched and we were all opening paid for boxes, many hundreds opened by those posting here and no JPs is a reason to question the rng. This mix up as I said before has given us an insight into just how lower chance we have even with cash purchases.

Ea Rapture
05-03-2016, 10:09 AM
so Destro,about that Rng.......:confused:

It's not changing nor going anywhere.

DEPHIC
05-03-2016, 03:41 PM
I'm still laughing about how bad the named drop was on these paid elite boxes. I wish I would have counted the amount of elites I opened to only get 1 named drop, but I know it was ALOT. For the life of me I can't fathom why anyone would pay for such a low chance of getting a elite named.

Smokey Black
05-03-2016, 04:30 PM
I'm still laughing about how bad the named drop was on these paid elite boxes. I wish I would have counted the amount of elites I opened to only get 1 named drop, but I know it was ALOT. For the life of me I can't fathom why anyone would pay for such a low chance of getting a elite named.

You kind of answered your own question. By making them super rare they drive people to spend money for an increased chance at one.

MasterProtector
05-03-2016, 05:52 PM
so if i bought nearly 50 boxes over the span of armistice how can i expect these compensation boxes to be received? as in all at once or at various points? some people have gotten some compensation boxes but knowing i got premium boxes ive not yet seen compensation boxes yet, is it sending it out spastically or did you guys have to input something for it to just send them out over time?

Johnny Gatt
05-03-2016, 06:01 PM
so if i bought nearly 50 boxes over the span of armistice how can i expect these compensation boxes to be received? as in all at once or at various points? some people have gotten some compensation boxes but knowing i got premium boxes ive not yet seen compensation boxes yet, is it sending it out spastically or did you guys have to input something for it to just send them out over time?

Sometimes it takes weeks or months for compensation items to start releasing. It has been like that for hrs when expos broken, it took a month for compensation for season 2 rep pursuit that was broken and all they did was auto complete. ( however everyone who played during that time got the completion whether they tried for the pursuit or not.)
This case may take a few weeks so they can go through data to see who bought crates and how many. Otherwise I could just submit a ticket saying I bought 100 premium crates and got nothing. I am sure a few people did that, so that will add more work as Trion has to weed out the liars from the legit purchasers.

Destromathe
05-03-2016, 06:05 PM
Hey All,

I have finished granting these boxes to players, at a 1 to 1 ratio of boxes purchased. You will be able to locate them in your claimables. Please be sure that you are not at the cap for certain currencies before you open these to avoid losing any. Thank you again for your patience while we worked on getting this out to you all.

Johnny Gatt
05-03-2016, 06:08 PM
Hey All,

I have finished granting these boxes to players, at a 1 to 1 ratio of boxes purchased. You will be able to locate them in your claimables. Please be sure that you are not at the cap for certain currencies before you open these to avoid losing any. Thank you again for your patience while we worked on getting this out to you all.

I bought a few actually, so I will check.... ty

Kuroro
05-03-2016, 06:09 PM
heyyyy look its that Transparency Guy!!!
and hey you do somewhere somehow in a remote area of comprehension realize that we Are the customers and if you keep making the game worse,you wont have any customers...right?

I bet they know this very well,you are the one that does not know how the things are,we all dont know **** because the servers could shut down soon and we dont even know it.But devs know when the game is suposed to close so they can just make money before it happens ignoring all of us because they wont depend of us anymore


Anyone know if it's alot better t6d as kinda blows now the clustershots, haven't used one in years.

I supremed mine and its "meh...",the name is Clustershot Shotgun tho,not Desperado.Still,i like a natural bio clustershot so im ok with it,i really wanted one

Ctss3xxy
05-03-2016, 06:21 PM
And thank you for the boxes, however I was expecting a bit more of an apology and thought you would include more in the boxes than you have actually given us ..... but 1 CHIP PULLER per box only ?

Fantastic compensation.... I think that we deserve something more as it was real money that we paid with and not keys from in game..

Big shame on this Destro.

Hunter0
05-03-2016, 06:30 PM
And thank you for the boxes, however I was expecting a bit more of an apology and thought you would include more in the boxes than you have actually given us ..... but 1 CHIP PULLER per box only ?

Fantastic compensation.... I think that we deserve something more as it was real money that we paid with and not keys from in game..

Big shame on this Destro.

A broken RNG compensation for players whom purchased the broken RNG boxes ?

mcshulte
05-03-2016, 06:30 PM
And thank you for the boxes, however I was expecting a bit more of an apology and thought you would include more in the boxes than you have actually given us ..... but 1 CHIP PULLER per box only ?

Fantastic compensation.... I think that we deserve something more as it was real money that we paid with and not keys from in game..

Big shame on this Destro.

You know this thread was about missing currency in the boxes right? Which is EXACLTY what they gave us, the currency. With the SAME chance to get what you would've gotten if the currency would've dropped when we bought the boxes. That's what was promised and that's what we got. Don't complain about them giving you something you were missing, or that it doesn't meet your expectations because you didn't get it when you paid. Be happy they even gave us that, they could've blown it off.

Gaige12
05-03-2016, 06:34 PM
...........

Chump Norris
05-03-2016, 06:37 PM
I have mine in claims thanks Destro!

Nightmare390
05-03-2016, 06:51 PM
so here is actual RNG on the paid boxes 64 boxes (I know I know) gave zero JPs (at whatever kind of chance they made these special boxes to be) glad I got what was promised to me at least.

Chump Norris
05-03-2016, 06:58 PM
so here is actual RNG on the paid boxes 64 boxes (I know I know) gave zero JPs (at whatever kind of chance they made these special boxes to be) glad I got what was promised to me at least.

Damn 64 boxes and no jp..

I only had 3 but got lucky and pulled a Reckoning.

Big Jack Shepard
05-03-2016, 07:11 PM
I received four boxes but I thought I bought more. I was awarded 22 arkforge 3 times on the screen but the 66 af didn't show up in my total which was 174 af before and after I claimed the boxes.

Olaf
05-03-2016, 07:12 PM
I bet they know this very well,you are the one that does not know how the things are,we all dont know **** because the servers could shut down soon and we dont even know it.But devs know when the game is suposed to close so they can just make money before it happens ignoring all of us because they wont depend of us anymore



I supremed mine and its "meh...",the name is Clustershot Shotgun tho,not Desperado.Still,i like a natural bio clustershot so im ok with it,i really wanted one

Yeah I thought so. I'll keep slogging away at the arkforge grind to find a good mastery, then supreme. Then figure out best tier to reroll. I feel the clustershot needs more fire rate, velocity and more importantly FDR,which seems really low. It's still a fun gun though, good 4 lazy finger too lol. Wish devs would give clustershot some love...

Johnny Gatt
05-03-2016, 07:17 PM
I bought more than I thought... LOL. I got a nice bunch of arkforge and keys and a few chip pullers.
The issue with the boxes was the lack of premium currency. That has been addressed.
I think many people were expecting the actual lockboxes so there may be some backlash from them, but item drops were not the issue .

Of course now that we know how the rng works, I say just take chances with the 64 key elite boxes and keep bit spending restricted to items that retain more value.

Kuroro
05-03-2016, 07:31 PM
Yeah I thought so. I'll keep slogging away at the arkforge grind to find a good mastery, then supreme. Then figure out best tier to reroll. I feel the clustershot needs more fire rate, velocity and more importantly FDR,which seems really low. It's still a fun gun though, good 4 lazy finger too lol. Wish devs would give clustershot some love...

it would be nice with more fire rate and a dmg increase,for lazy fingers as you said XD because it would be almost like krampus with more dps

Rhettro
05-03-2016, 10:44 PM
Destromathe, I wanted you to know that not all players got their boxes. I purchased a significant amount of the Armistace Elite boxes during the event and did not receive a single box in my claimables. I sent a ticket to customer service but I wonder if they are under the impression they do not need to solve this as your earlier post said customer service would no longer address claims relating to this issue.

Smokey Black
05-03-2016, 10:50 PM
it would be nice with more fire rate and a dmg increase,for lazy fingers as you said XD because it would be almost like krampus with more dps

The gun needs range, velocity. Other than that it's a fun shooter but has no value as anything other than collectability. I would assume it is worth more t5 mk1 rolls than t6 mk2..

Arran
05-03-2016, 11:03 PM
So just claimed my box back and all I got was 1 chip puller. No guns at all. No my inventory was not full.

Kuroro
05-03-2016, 11:06 PM
The gun needs range, velocity. Other than that it's a fun shooter but has no value as anything other than collectability. I would assume it is worth more t5 mk1 rolls than t6 mk2..

if i were collector i would keep it mki.and yes i agree,the most it needs is velocity,but velocity and fire rate would make it nice

Xyorg
05-04-2016, 12:25 AM
46 of those refund boxes , but no confirmation bias here im about to claim them and want the exact specs on what i bought and the chances at said contained JP.
cose if with 46x280 all i get is chip pullers i would like a refund of those bits and you can find a toilet to flush the chip pullers into

what is this where you give us only the differencial in currency when they mistake was yours , where are my actual bonus augmented 46 rolls at oj or JP in box ??? the amount of bit spent would cover a 20 chip puller pack , if thats what i wanted thats what i would have bought

you will be loosing custumerS , enphasis on S cose this issue has affected lots and first time or long time consumer on bit store , this is the last hit on the nail of the overpriced bundle to make Me stop buying at least

lightweedhawk
05-04-2016, 12:42 AM
20 of elite lockboxes, 20 refund boxes, but not a single weppon? Just chip pullers, you must be kidding.... Thats what you call compensation? 20 chip pullers!???where are the weapons? Damn.... Im starting to hate this ......

MrAwesome78
05-04-2016, 01:10 AM
Don't feel bad man, I just opened 110 & not one weapon lol

YahootsMagoondi
05-04-2016, 01:21 AM
Don't feel bad man, I just opened 110 & not one weapon lol

but you had an "increased chance" at all those jps...lol

i only had 20, no jps either...

Olaf
05-04-2016, 02:44 AM
Why are people complaining, if I'm not mistaken the only issue with the currency premium boxes was they did not contain currency?

EDIT: Reread original post, must say this is bad from Destromathe. The free and premium boxes were swapped during event and your refund to paying players is a load of chip pullers lol? Funny....

Bentu
05-04-2016, 03:01 AM
Why are people complaining, if I'm not mistaken the only issue with the currency premium boxes was they did not contain currency?

EDIT: Reread original post, must say this is bad from Destromathe. The free and premium boxes were swapped during event and your refund to paying players is a load of chip pullers lol? Funny....

What is even worse is even though we were getting rewards from the premium box we still weren't pulling jackpots even with the increased chance of getting one.

Edit. Well some of us didn't.

LOOKxATxTHISxI
05-04-2016, 03:22 AM
Know I bought more than 10 boxes but that is all that showed in claims. 6 chip pulls/2 hunter req/5key codes/22 af

Ronin9572
05-04-2016, 04:30 AM
I can understand why some ppl are upset by the comp boxes. I know several ppl who bought more premium elite boxes for that higher chance at a JP. The didn't get alot of elite lockboxes and now kinda got ripped off by this whole mess. So evidently Trion will only be giving out premium currency with these boxes.

Olaf
05-04-2016, 05:00 AM
I can understand why some ppl are upset by the comp boxes. I know several ppl who bought more premium elite boxes for that higher chance at a JP. The didn't get alot of elite lockboxes and now kinda got ripped off by this whole mess. So evidently Trion will only be giving out premium currency with these boxes.

To be honest they should be given what they paid for. As it stands they got free lockboxes for real money. Then the refund was a load of currency when people bought them for the increased JP chance, not currency.

And yeah Bentu I opened a fair few of those boxes and never got a jp either, lots of currency and ojs though.

Ronin9572
05-04-2016, 05:13 AM
I did not buy any premium lb's so I have nothing to complain about. But what worries me is the paying customers getting mad and taking they're money else where. This affects us all! I'm a F2Per,bought a game disc and paid for some extra PP time. Cannot afford much more, but appreciate all the players that spend money on this game. Tyvm and you should be treated better by Trion

Telemachus
05-04-2016, 05:25 AM
I got one of these things in my claims ... opened it got a single hr ..


Woohoo ... now I'm at 550 hunters reqs even, now.


This premium supplement was 1 out of 549 of nothing .


Thanks for all the trouble coding this 'Fix"?


Effort would have been better spent on fixing the removing mods from weapons ... removes you from the game bug.

Infinity Eagle
05-04-2016, 05:34 AM
Can see from the "fix" that tryon does not really care about it customers. The fix should of been our bits back or the box we paid for, the COMPLETE box, not just a req or puller. :mad:

Xyorg
05-04-2016, 05:37 AM
Can see from the "fix" that tryon does not really care about it customers. The fix should of been our bits back or the box we paid for, the COMPLETE box, not just a req or puller. :mad:

100% agreed ,

is that 10 charr ?..

Olaf
05-04-2016, 07:03 AM
Can see from the "fix" that tryon does not really care about it customers. The fix should of been our bits back or the box we paid for, the COMPLETE box, not just a req or puller. :mad:

This has me worried for the unique weapon we "done the hard way" 6k players will be receiving. I'm fully expecting an epic birdshot, or something equally useless like the Trove ground pounder after this.

Smokey Black
05-04-2016, 07:34 AM
Well at least jps dropped from the comp boxes. It may seem weird to miss out on all the blue and green vendor food but I know of at least one who got a jp from this. I didn't get any because it's an elite lockbox, common yall already knew the drop rates before you opened your wallets.

Edit: Do any of you really understand the meaning of the word Improved when used as a source of marketing? I don't even think they have to increase the actual drop rate a decimal higher, they could in theory reduce the drop rate for the most benign item, and poof the box is improved.

Greybush
05-04-2016, 07:43 AM
Comparatively, I did pretty well. 500+ AF and a Cataclysm and Wildcat. I'm only a little disappointed because my standards differ wildly in contrast to Trion's. On the scale of Trion rewards, I'm ecstatic. We need to remember that Trion's idea of good rewards and ours are vastly different.

Also, don't forget, 0.0002 is greater than 0.0001.

Hunter0
05-04-2016, 07:43 AM
Fix the loot already! The majority if not all are not happy about it. And bring more events too. Game is idle.

Olaf
05-04-2016, 08:15 AM
Well at least jps dropped from the comp boxes. It may seem weird to miss out on all the blue and green vendor food but I know of at least one who got a jp from this. I didn't get any because it's an elite lockbox, common yall already knew the drop rates before you opened your wallets.

Edit: Do any of you really understand the meaning of the word Improved when used as a source of marketing? I don't even think they have to increase the actual drop rate a decimal higher, they could in theory reduce the drop rate for the most benign item, and poof the box is improved.

If the combo box can drop jp then it's OK I think, was under impression the box literally could only have currency.

r1p
05-04-2016, 09:27 AM
I received four boxes but I thought I bought more. I was awarded 22 arkforge 3 times on the screen but the 66 af didn't show up in my total which was 174 af before and after I claimed the boxes.

Does AF from lock boxes count against the cap if you don't have a patron pass? If it does and you don't have a pass then that might explain it if you were already at the cap.

Kuroro
05-04-2016, 10:05 AM
Does AF from lock boxes count against the cap if you don't have a patron pass? If it does and you don't have a pass then that might explain it if you were already at the cap.

it does not

Destromathe
05-04-2016, 10:27 AM
As I stated in both my last post and the original post, the compensation box contains a chance at a jackpot. The currency that is awarded by the box is the same exact random currency roll that you get from the premium elite box. Chip pullers and Hunter Requisitions are part of that random roll, along with Arkforge.

The end result of this is that any player who purchased a premium elite box, received everything the box was meant to give, plus two chances at a jackpot roll. Rest assured that any jackpot chance issues have already been addressed, and as I have stated before, the drop rate is significantly improved compared to the Elite lock box. With that in mind, please understand that jackpots are still very rare.

In addition to Jackpot drops, the legendary drop rate inside premium boxes is also higher, however this was not affected by this error with the Armistice Premium Elite issue. We are constantly looking at drop rates within lock boxes, including paid and not paid for boxes. Your feedback is not going unnoticed, so keep an eye out for possible updates in the future.

Mister Ree
05-04-2016, 11:29 AM
As I stated in both my last post and the original post, the compensation box contains a chance at a jackpot. The currency that is awarded by the box is the same exact random currency roll that you get from the premium elite box. Chip pullers and Hunter Requisitions are part of that random roll, along with Arkforge.

The end result of this is that any player who purchased a premium elite box, received everything the box was meant to give, plus two chances at a jackpot roll. Rest assured that any jackpot chance issues have already been addressed, and as I have stated before, the drop rate is significantly improved compared to the Elite lock box. With that in mind, please understand that jackpots are still very rare.

In addition to Jackpot drops, the legendary drop rate inside premium boxes is also higher, however this was not affected by this error with the Armistice Premium Elite issue. We are constantly looking at drop rates within lock boxes, including paid and not paid for boxes. Your feedback is not going unnoticed, so keep an eye out for possible updates in the future.

I'm sure it doesn't go unnoticed as the chance to scoff at the community when the devs bother to read the forums never goes undone (you've mentioned numerous times how you hardly read the forums in livestreams)... You also repeatedly say how good the drop rates are and how they've been improved but its quite obvious its screwed considering that EVERY SINGLE PLAYER playing during armistice was pulling "premium" elite crates in game for the entire duration of the event.

24 DAYS, 24!

Meaning most general players pulled 100+ crates with little to no effort and most went without getting a single JP?? 100+ crates? That would be a lot of money going your way if everyone had paid for this "improved" chance. Fortunately we didn't.


I did enjoy Armistice regardless, and so did everyone else so thanks for that but its quite clear something is wrong with rng and how it is delivered on live servers. The players have been saying it long enough and its about time you listened and really check it out. The data is all there for you to look at just from the past event. Some people get JP after JP, some people get nothing at all no matter what they do and I can bet it has more to do with a bug you have failed to recognise than how rng itself works.

I myself do fine with event JPs but when it comes to pulling anything decent from crates (JP or otherwise) it never happens but I'm willing to lose my regular event JPs to see more variety and better drop rates for everyone.

Just as a reminder to you devs, remember a long while back there was a screwed up loot table that you all claimed wasn't broke when it was and it took you months before you bothered to really check out what players were saying.

Its okay to admit that rng has been broke, we all know it is. Just fix it because the playerbase cba with the bs anymore.

Octo
05-04-2016, 12:07 PM
I got nothing from those compensation boxes.
Maybe the currencies (I opened the daily/weekly boxes at the same time so I don't really know, then I crashed 3 times in a row trying to send a pm so I can't double check, lol), but definitely no guns and no mods. :confused:

Edit: Okay, so it's JUST the currency, and a chance at a jackpot.
I don't want to be disrespectful, I don't really need more blues or purples, but Jesus Christ you're a bit stingy on this one.

Altras
05-04-2016, 12:29 PM
I got nothing from those compensation boxes.
Maybe the currencies (I opened the daily/weekly boxes at the same time so I don't really know, then I crashed 3 times in a row trying to send a pm so I can't double check, lol), but definitely no guns and no mods. :confused:

My rng was the same, only received currency.