PDA

View Full Version : Exchange f2p slot



DiskoSvir
05-08-2016, 12:42 PM
There are lots of free-2-play players in Defiance and I think that Exchange won't live up to it's full potential if you don't allow at least 1 free slot in it for sale (at least not for bits), please rethink about doing this. People will still buy exchange slots but at least one would boost Defiance economy much more.

Skiller115
05-08-2016, 01:05 PM
There are lots of free-2-play players in Defiance and I think that Exchange won't live up to it's full potential if you don't allow at least 1 free slot in it for sale (at least not for bits), please rethink about doing this. People will still buy exchange slots but at least one would boost Defiance economy much more.

This entire update is a short term marketing ploy. It's not going to happen. So don't hold your breath for them allowing you to use this awesome feature for free.

Claydough
05-08-2016, 01:07 PM
dont worry, even paid players will be ignoring this feature

r1p
05-08-2016, 01:11 PM
dont worry, even paid players will be ignoring this feature

No kidding. People might sell mods on it, but no one is going to use it to sell high cost stuff.

Skiller115
05-08-2016, 01:13 PM
dont worry, even paid players will be ignoring this feature

Yeah only noobs think that this update will make them rich. All good items will be trade only still. Only things that will be sold in the exchange is garbage and T4 mods.

OokamiXIII
05-08-2016, 01:16 PM
Yeah only noobs think that this update will make them rich. All good items will be trade only still. Only things that will be sold in the exchange is garbage and T4 mods.

400+ Little Helpers.....

SilverWF
05-08-2016, 01:16 PM
There are lots of free-2-play players in Defiance and I think that Exchange won't live up to it's full potential if you don't allow at least 1 free slot in it for sale (at least not for bits), please rethink about doing this. People will still buy exchange slots but at least one would boost Defiance economy much more.

and what will prevent from creating tons of new accounts and selling stuff? they are don't care about our economy - they care about their profit only...

Lamar Kendrick
05-08-2016, 01:31 PM
400+ Little Helpers.....

500+ final caress.....

Ronin9572
05-08-2016, 01:57 PM
Yeah only noobs think that this update will make them rich. All good items will be trade only still. Only things that will be sold in the exchange is garbage and T4 mods.

If they think it's going to make them rich, they're in for a rude awakening. Many ppl think it's all free to sell. But it really cost real money and than script on top of that. Only thing this update will do is give a few ppl more time to play,and less time marketing gear. Oh and Trion to make more money off us...

FaustPWNZ
05-08-2016, 02:14 PM
500+ final caress.....

9001 Emancipators xD

DiskoSvir
05-08-2016, 02:21 PM
and what will prevent from creating tons of new accounts and selling stuff?

Yeah, guess I didn't thought of that one.

llls1cKb0ylll
05-08-2016, 02:22 PM
hey ill buy a UD for 200k if i see it on sale xD but well i won't sell shtako on it, would love to put the 400+ T4s i have but dang they are greedy, 6 paid slots, 18k to publish a oj weap plus 15% commission? no thx... rather not sell em at all

Hunter0
05-08-2016, 02:36 PM
Make events and let us reveal stress ffs !!!

Ronin9572
05-08-2016, 02:36 PM
Yup another great idea, like the trade chat window...

Ea Rapture
05-08-2016, 03:19 PM
Yup another great idea, like the trade chat window...

Cause that is so widely used...

If they just added new content.... Entirely new guns, maybe weapon crafting? Mod crafting? Add new resources?

Johnny Gatt
05-08-2016, 03:34 PM
Cause that is so widely used...

If they just added new content.... Entirely new guns, maybe weapon crafting? Mod crafting? Add new resources?

Be mindful that anything new will be bit store driven, so while something like mod crafting would be cool, it would be designed to require premium currencies such as forge.
As far as new guns, none have been released since launch. Everything is reskinned version of something that already exists.

Ea Rapture
05-08-2016, 04:51 PM
Be mindful that anything new will be bit store driven, so while something like mod crafting would be cool, it would be designed to require premium currencies such as forge.
As far as new guns, none have been released since launch. Everything is reskinned version of something that already exists.

That's an unfortunate problem. I can understand paying the bills and a need for a store, yet, I feel they could do both without compromising bit sales. A simple reduction in price (at least to be in line with their other titles) should help as buyers get more for their money and let's face it: noone ever gets what they want from 2 boxes which is more than what you could get for spending $5 on the store. Besides, everything is Trions property, why would they care? They don't play the game, and balance means nothing with weapons the way they are.

r1p
05-08-2016, 04:57 PM
hey ill buy a UD for 200k if i see it on sale xD but well i won't sell shtako on it, would love to put the 400+ T4s i have but dang they are greedy, 6 paid slots, 18k to publish a oj weap plus 15% commission? no thx... rather not sell em at all

It's basically this. The commission is a killer and anyone selling in zone can undercut exchange sellers by using it against them and still make more scrip. Throw in the fact that it also can't accommodate trades and it will simply become a place to unload mods.

Claydough
05-08-2016, 05:04 PM
I see this more as a feature for patrons rather than them earning big on individual slots.

Lithova
05-08-2016, 06:02 PM
The seller slot limitations are real lame just like the excuse for it. Basically you pay three fees to sell something. The first fee is buying patron or buying a seller slot(s) from the bit store with real money (what a rip off.)...the next fee is with scrip in which you pay a fee for listing your item, the last fee is the 15% tax of your profit when your item is sold.

Anyone who wants to sell an item must buy a seller slot and only from the bit store or subscribing/paying for Patron. Non-Patrons are limited to a total of 4 seller slots max...Patrons get 2 "free seller slots" and can buy an additional 4 seller slots...but the cap is 6 seller slots max for patrons total. (lame)

I've suggested the same thing as the OP in which I suggested one free seller slot to all. Like I mean whats the point of excluding some members of the Defiance playerbase from using the exchange, by restricting all to buying some stupid over priced seller slot in the bit store? Its not like this game is getting any younger and its not like the number of players is increasing. Pretty much milking the last of the whales who play this game. The exchange is one big giant middle finger to Non-patrons.

tig3r
05-08-2016, 06:53 PM
It is debatable how useful an exclusive and limiting system of trade would be in practice before the update. The obvious set backs are the taxation and the limited patron use that sets the size of the operation, SMALL and exclusive. If it doesn't catch on then it will gradually fade into the background atmosphere of our memories.

However, if it does work as is intended then we shall come to see the unfathomable that is buying and selling of ALL JPs throught the system. This is a big if (or small depends how you look at it) that needs someone to initiate a sale of a high end JP, say a Nova, for let's say 1 billion. It's kinda crazy but the number's only hypothetical. But for someone who maybe really keen to buy at such awesome pricing could attempt it. Farm it, scrounge, and maybe sell some high tier items equal to its worth.

What I'm saying is that all goes to plan and IF it does indeed work then we should see some sort of market value forming around the items traded through the hierarchy of the Exchange which adds a nice touch to Defiance.

llls1cKb0ylll
05-08-2016, 07:55 PM
they should take a look at apb reloaded marketplace

-unlimited free sell slots
-free publishing
-10% commission ONLY on sale
-auctions with minimum bid and buy now price

rZPnetiDqJM

Claydough
05-08-2016, 08:01 PM
they should take a look at apb reloaded marketplace

-unlimited free sell slots
-free publishing
-10% comission ONLY on sale
-auctions with minium bid and buy now price

rZPnetiDqJM

So simple

All they had to di was copy it, bo thinking required

tig3r
05-08-2016, 09:30 PM
Incorporating Bits into the trade system and make them tradable would be cool too.

Ea Rapture
05-08-2016, 10:08 PM
Incorporating Bits into the trade system and make them tradable would be cool too.

That's a stupid idea. I ain't giving people my money, they can go get a job like the rest of us.

Kuroro
05-08-2016, 10:23 PM
Incorporating Bits into the trade system and make them tradable would be cool too.

i suggested it time ago and a developer fused my thread with another one xD you can see the replies here about it http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?236222-Why-can-t-we-sell-or-buy-with-real-money&highlight=tradeable+bits

konstantinov
05-09-2016, 02:29 AM
Incorporating Bits into the trade system and make them tradable would be cool too.

Trion has already stated they will never have bits as a trade able currency and honestly if they did $5 worth of bits would cost you 3x that in trade value or scrip.

OokamiXIII
05-09-2016, 04:24 AM
9001 Emancipators xD

It's over 9000!!!!!

PithHelmetIrath
05-09-2016, 05:06 AM
That's a stupid idea. I ain't giving people my money, they can go get a job like the rest of us.

Amen!

/10characters

llls1cKb0ylll
05-09-2016, 05:21 AM
That's a stupid idea. I ain't giving people my money, they can go get a job like the rest of us.

well in firefall for example u can farm Crystite (kinda ark savage) exchange it for Credits (kinda script) and then buy Redbeans (bits) from other players to a rate of 100 credits per redbean (u can post an offer and other players sell u the "bits", nobody is forced to sell u nor the company)
could be nice to buy bits with script to a rate of 500k per bit or more


http://www.firefallthegame.com/system/images/W1siZiIsIjIwMTQvMDcvMTAvMTdfMDRfMTZfODRfQ29udmVydC 5wbmciXV0/Convert.png
http://www.firefallthegame.com/system/images/W1siZiIsIjIwMTQvMDcvMTAvMTdfMDRfMTZfNTk4X0V4Y2hhbm dlLnBuZyJdXQ/Exchange.png

Smokey Black
05-09-2016, 05:24 AM
Cause that is so widely used...

If they just added new content.... Entirely new guns, maybe weapon crafting? Mod crafting? Add new resources?

I was thinking the other day we have assault Rifles and carbines how a out a new weapon Blast Carbine.

DiskoSvir
05-09-2016, 05:43 AM
and what will prevent from creating tons of new accounts and selling stuff?

btw got it figured out, make that one slot available for 300-500k scrip :)

tig3r
05-09-2016, 05:48 AM
Trion has already stated they will never have bits as a trade able currency and honestly if they did $5 worth of bits would cost you 3x that in trade value or scrip.

An average value of hourly grind for gamers were worked out at around $0.75 (based on WoW) making the standard hourly wage far superior in being able to buy premium content in far shorter time. Real life cash that buys Bits and Bits that can buy premium content are therefore 'sacred'. An economy that trades Bits can be subject to an inflation meaning a steady increase of the price of Bits vs Scrips. I like the hierarchy and I like the grind, because it makes no sense that I should be the one having to do it :p

One good example I can give you is Dead Frontier, a zombie MMO that started small but grew big and now has a working market system at its heart. I've played it throughout the years as a merchant and believe you me the inflation in it was real. When it was settling down after being launched 3D in 2013, 100 credits were being traded at 100k-200k, top end weapons were around a million and several thousand credit could purchase top premium weapon, price of the credits were $5 for 100 creds or with a gradual discount applied you could buy 2000 creds for $60.

Take a guess at the price of credits at the end of 2015, it was 2.5 MILLION and rising, 10 times the increase while the cash purchase price for credits had remained the same. It reflects several factors that affects a game economy and is an example of a market system without a cash sink or taxation in place, as the game grew so did the economy and inflation, but only a few knew about how it'd turn out to be.

Smokey Black
05-09-2016, 05:48 AM
btw got it figured out, make that one slot available for 300-500k scrip :)

Yeah but what item would you cough up 300k to list then take 20% off the top when all you have to do is type WTS in zone when people are playing.

konstantinov
05-09-2016, 07:12 AM
*Snip

It's difficult to compare MMOs when it comes to premium currency. Defiance doesn't have scrip farmers so for every other day besides the extra life weekend people have to earn scrip the honest way. I know exactly how this model works as what you are suggesting has already been implemented in Warframe. The problem with this is that items become even more expensive and the market shrinks that much more due to the fact that not everyone is pumping money into the game. You can't really farm for items in Defiance like you can in Warframe so that shrinks the market yet again. I can guarantee you if bits were tradeable I'd crash ps3 NA's market faster than a runaway train. Is that fair to the players? Absolutely, you asked for the feature.

DiskoSvir
05-09-2016, 07:15 AM
Yeah but what item would you cough up 300k to list then take 20% off the top when all you have to do is type WTS in zone when people are playing.

I meant that you can unlock it for 300-500k and not to pay 300-500k for every item put on it.

Skiller115
05-09-2016, 07:47 AM
they should take a look at apb reloaded marketplace

-unlimited free sell slots
-free publishing
-10% commission ONLY on sale
-auctions with minimum bid and buy now price

rZPnetiDqJM

The problem with this is that Trion can't farm our wallets if it was all free and unrestricted.

llls1cKb0ylll
05-09-2016, 08:35 AM
The problem with this is that Trion can't farm our wallets if it was all free and unrestricted.

well they dont have to copy as it is but get the general idea: more sell slots / less ammout of taxes / auctions with buy now prices
give 5 free slots to everyone / 10 free slots to patrons / sell packs of 5, 10, 20 or more slots for bits
but well i think they gonna increase the sell slots as they can handle more server load (hope so)
but in the state its is now its gonna be pretty useless/underused

tig3r
05-09-2016, 08:43 AM
It's difficult to compare MMOs when it comes to premium currency. Defiance doesn't have scrip farmers so for every other day besides the extra life weekend people have to earn scrip the honest way. I know exactly how this model works as what you are suggesting has already been implemented in Warframe. The problem with this is that items become even more expensive and the market shrinks that much more due to the fact that not everyone is pumping money into the game. You can't really farm for items in Defiance like you can in Warframe so that shrinks the market yet again. I can guarantee you if bits were tradeable I'd crash ps3 NA's market faster than a runaway train. Is that fair to the players? Absolutely, you asked for the feature.

The model maybe the same but the experience of the market has been shaped by the very factors that you've mentioned that affected the market model in Warframe.

Farmed or not, every day players throughout the servers generate scrips through pursuits, rewards etc. I want to talk about this and not scrip made from trading. Take two people that are trading an item in exchange and we have a working system, but remember each and every trade is creating a loss of 15% and this creates issues never mind the restrictions of patron only.

For the seller, if he is to turn buyer to have the same item back or buy items valued at similar level then how will he find the means to fill 15% loss of scrip if the amount is greater than his ability to generate it? By and large it is given that all scrip circulates through the activity of trading to form a bigger amount of scrip a.k.a trading.

For the buyer, he would like to sell it on and buy other things but he faces the immediate problem that the collective pool of scrip is shrinking, a problem that is realistic to happen to a small server like PS3-EU. Does this mean that he must now decrease the value in order to sell? He may well consider it and sell though making a loss or he can try to maintain the market value of the item. On the whole, trade through the Exchange would need to be made at the same rate as the scrip that is generated, something that no player would ever know and therefore we may run out of scrips faster than being able to buy slowing down trade through the Exchange making it redundant and going back to using face-to-face trades.

The experience would differ from server to server and I'm interested enough to keep an eye out for what's happening elsewhere in regards to this.

Also, forming a trade guild would be advisable if you are really wanting to attempt to mess with the market as going it solo generally doesn't have impact to make a lasting impression on the market though it can be a profitable strategy.

konstantinov
05-09-2016, 08:58 AM
The model maybe the same but the experience of the market has been shaped by the very factors that you've mentioned that affected the market model in Warframe.

Farmed or not, every day players throughout the servers generate scrips through pursuits, rewards etc. I want to talk about this and not scrip made from trading. Take two people that are trading an item in exchange and we have a working system, but remember each and every trade is creating a loss of 15% and this creates issues never mind the restrictions of patron only.

For the seller, if he is to turn buyer to have the same item back or buy items valued at similar level then how will he find the means to fill 15% loss of scrip if the amount is greater than his ability to generate it? By and large it is given that all scrip circulates through the activity of trading to form a bigger amount of scrip a.k.a trading.

For the buyer, he would like to sell it on and buy other things but he faces the immediate problem that the collective pool of scrip is shrinking, a problem that is realistic to happen to a small server like PS3-EU. Does this mean that he must now decrease the value in order to sell? He may well consider it and sell though making a loss or he can try to maintain the market value of the item. On the whole, trade through the Exchange would need to be made at the same rate as the scrip that is generated, something that no player would ever know and therefore we may run out of scrips faster than being able to buy slowing down trade through the Exchange making it redundant and going back to using face-to-face trades.

The experience would differ from server to server and I'm interested enough to keep an eye out for what's happening elsewhere in regards to this.

Also, forming a trade guild would be advisable if you are really wanting to attempt to mess with the market as going it solo generally doesn't have impact to make a lasting impression on the market though it can be a profitable strategy.

So how would you equate bits into scrip, value wise?

llls1cKb0ylll
05-09-2016, 09:23 AM
So how would you equate bits into scrip, value wise?

maybe we can use a bits/arkforge/script rule

50 arkforge cost 200 bits
1 arkforge used to worth 3k script (at least in PC NA)
so 1 arkforge is 0.25 bits
then 1 bit worth 12k scripts

that wouldn't work tho, too cheap imo
wouldn't sell a single bit for less than 500k

tig3r
05-09-2016, 10:33 AM
So how would you equate bits into scrip, value wise?

The time it takes to buy bits with cash would be multiplied and a player would need to grind 24/7 forever to be able to buy premium items from just pure farming scrips!!

konstantinov
05-09-2016, 11:05 AM
The time it takes to buy bits with cash would be multiplied and a player would need to grind 24/7 forever to be able to buy premium items from just pure farming scrips!!

Ok so how would you value a Ghost Duster/Until Death into bits? It's one step above selling things for real money. I think a majority of us see that in zone chat every day as it is not enforced.

The way I see it you have 2 options then:

1. Get a job and buy bits.
2. Farm scrip or trade for items you can then trade for bits.

Regardless, people will cry and complain even further about how the game is f2p but they can't afford to do any of this. Are you starting to see why this wouldn't work?

Johnny Gatt
05-09-2016, 12:09 PM
I think Trion should store all of the scrip collected on ps3 na until 2.5 billion is reached and then hold a lottery. The lottery tickets can be purchased for bits in store. The winner could then buy Kons inventory.

tig3r
05-09-2016, 12:20 PM
Ok so how would you value a Ghost Duster/Until Death into bits? It's one step above selling things for real money. I think a majority of us see that in zone chat every day as it is not enforced.

The way I see it you have 2 options then:

1. Get a job and buy bits.
2. Farm scrip or trade for items you can then trade for bits.

Regardless, people will cry and complain even further about how the game is f2p but they can't afford to do any of this. Are you starting to see why this wouldn't work?

No i see it, as long as the cash is coming in the game is doing fine, just as long as players arent able to farm scrips faster than you are able to get a job and spend it the way you like.

Tradable Bits don't work because RNG is the preferred method not straight forward sale of items. Imagine if UD could be purchased for 2000 bits, forcing you to buy 400 bits for $5 and 1800 bits for $20, the sales would soar and after everyone has one we'd be ready for the next craze. $25 aint killing your wallet but it'd kill the exclusivity of the item whereas RNG makes sure that the JPs are sent from the heavens. This ensures that JPs will always be in demand but its profitability is another matter, a matter that must interest the players because the business model itself is what they are offering as the gameplay experience.

To be honest the production style of Defiance TV show put me off it needless to say the story lore in-game that is often pedantic and is short lived in its relevance to the actual gameplay. I believe this is made possible by the huge production money available behind 'Murrican TV series these days.

Off the topic though, think it was a year back Dead Frontier released end-game gear that was an unlimited ammo gun and a 95% dmg reduction armour, the price for the set was a whopping $680 and many people did indeed work those over night shifts to buy what they wanted.

DiskoSvir
05-09-2016, 01:47 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/13v0mz.jpg

Ronin9572
05-09-2016, 05:00 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/13v0mz.jpg

LMAO, it's gone way off topic. Oh well it happens :)

Smokey Black
05-09-2016, 05:24 PM
if you guys want to trade bits buy some sentinal rigs or obliterators.

konstantinov
05-09-2016, 05:25 PM
if you guys want to trade bits buy some sentinal rigs or obliterators.

That's the thing they don't have means to buy that stuff.

Smokey Black
05-09-2016, 05:32 PM
That's the thing they don't have means to buy that stuff.

https://i.imgflip.com/13vdmf.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/13vdmf)via Imgflip Meme Maker (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

llls1cKb0ylll
05-09-2016, 05:42 PM
That's the thing they don't have means to buy that stuff.

even if i had enough money for spare to spend 150 bucks, i rather spend em in upgrading my computer or in some new AAA games plus dlcs

i can spend max 30 bucks per month and they are losing all these buyers like me with selling overpriced p2w stuff for the whales (at least is tradable now xD)

xXxDSMer
05-09-2016, 07:07 PM
Yup another great idea, like the trade chat window...


Cause that is so widely used...

If they just added new content.... Entirely new guns, maybe weapon crafting? Mod crafting? Add new resources?

Yeah that lovely trade chat channel that the settings for it have never had any effect, and many people don't see trade chat at all because they can't actually turn it on or off. Been broken since the day it was added lol.

CM Kiwibird
05-11-2016, 03:26 PM
Hey there folks, let's please stay on topic. This thread is all about the Exchange slots, and your feedback is important to us.

tig3r
05-11-2016, 03:38 PM
Is the Exchange available on PTS? if so what's it like?

Quicksilver1492
05-11-2016, 06:59 PM
Yeah that lovely trade chat channel that the settings for it have never had any effect, and many people don't see trade chat at all because they can't actually turn it on or off. Been broken since the day it was added lol.

It works if you set it to your third chat tab. I see quite a lot of Portuguese exchanges going on in there, not sure what is being said, though.

DiskoSvir
05-12-2016, 03:11 AM
Is the Exchange available on PTS? if so what's it like?

It was, dunno if PTS is still open tho, but lets just stay people were hyped about it, but not so much when they tried it out. Personally, I was hyped too, but when I heard that in order to post items in Exchange you need to pay real money and fees for posting weapon cost too much scrip, was really dissapointed, hence this thread.

konstantinov
05-12-2016, 04:05 AM
Just checked and the exchange is live on pts. There are only a few guns up for sale right now but I did see a ego 20 UD for 5.01 mil. By the way it doesn't tell you who the seller is.