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View Full Version : This game has no real feeling of progression gear wise.



Scyris
04-07-2013, 01:58 AM
I don'tknow about you, but I don't feel that defiance has any real sense of progression in terms of character strgenth. I mean a Ego level 0 assault rifle has 222 damage, a ego level 100 assault rifle still has 222 damage, I mean whats the real point to even having the gear have levels if the base numbers do not change. I don't know I like to have a sense that my char is getting stronger from my gear, however since the base values on items do not seem to change really (shields do, but maybe only by 1 capacity whoppie fraking do) Now I know higher level weapons may have more mod slots, but still, the base damage numbers really need to change as the weapons get higher level.

I'm just not really enjoying the game much atm, the missions are way to damn repetive, I think I have done 8 in a row that was bascally the exact same click 3 glowies just in diff area's, and the lack of any real sense of my char getting stronger is really detracting from the game experence.

Think the gear stuff will be changed? because as it currently is, they might as well remove the system entirely if the base stats on the items do not change at all.

Also, is it just me or do most of the Perks seem totally worthless due to obsenly low values on them? I mean +1% higher chance of loot (3% at max) is kinda bascally pointless.

Jammylambo
04-07-2013, 02:02 AM
i initially thought the same , but having discussed this with others on the forums im leaning toward agreeing with them , ego cap is 5000. so really the jump s minimal between 100-200

plus if your jumping 5-15 from pursuits , it would be crazy to have noticable prgression so early.

also i dont know if youve done this yet but if not , go check out the rep weapon vendors. they are far far superior to standard drops . definately seem worth the rep grinding.

you get contracts to earn rep at 250 btw :)

*edit*

i also strongly advice looking into weapon mods. mods also come in rarity scale so they can add some serious stats to your base weapon . i am inclined to believe mods are what will determine whether you feel progressive or not :) so go forth , mod and feel imba ! lol :D

boosted gear
04-07-2013, 02:05 AM
I understand how you feel as the progression system is not clear at first it works differently than other games. But there is deffinately progression there with out sounding like an idiot I suggest searching the forum as there are a lot of posts like this that people have posted good mini tutorials and explanationsnof the system in.

Atlas TKD
04-07-2013, 02:08 AM
It keeps pvp somewhat fair ya prick.


Though there is a big different when it comes to delay, recharge, speed etc.

Karazykid
04-07-2013, 02:09 AM
There is no damage progression. All assault rifles are going to have the same damage at level 1 as they will level 5000. What makes them better is the synergy and mods on them, like getting 10% of your clip reloaded on a kill or a .05 reduction in reload time or other impressive stats like that.

Dunnomatic
04-07-2013, 02:12 AM
Mods and getting guns at higher levels with mod spots already on them make a big difference.

The higher ego weapons also come with different bonus and synergy buffs.

The cap is 5000 so as was said you wont notice a big difference in a hundred level span other then getting buffs on higher rarity items. I can tell you at 654 a lot of the weapons are only base marginally better then low level ones but they are better and have had boosts. Having three mod spots unlocked is great too because the good purples and things like that cost a ton of salvage to add slots too.

Progression is there but it may be too spread thin for anyone but the hardcore.

Id like to see them make the mods more prevelant or not take up inventory space or something though because you have to hoard all the good mods right out the gate if you want to have the flexability to mod weapons with good mods regularly.

Some of this would be eleviated by fixing the glitch that makes mods disappear when you remove them. Lost a whole set of blue mods that way.

Paladin
04-07-2013, 02:14 AM
There is no damage progression. All assault rifles are going to have the same damage at level 1 as they will level 5000. What makes them better is the synergy and mods on them, like getting 10% of your clip reloaded on a kill or a .05 reduction in reload time or other impressive stats like that.

Not true it's been said there is progressions...just moderately. I mean at Ego rating 800 my grenades do 200 more dog than the 50 variant.

boosted gear
04-07-2013, 02:15 AM
Mods and getting guns at higher levels with mod spots already on them make a big difference.

The higher ego weapons also come with different bonus and synergy buffs.

The cap is 5000 so as was said you wont notice a big difference in a hundred level span other then getting buffs on higher rarity items. I can tell you at 654 a lot of the weapons are only base marginally better then low level ones but they are better and have had boosts. Having three mod spots unlocked is great too because the good purples and things like that cost a ton of salvage to add slots too.

Progression is there but it made be to spread thin for anyone but the hardcore.

Id like to see them make the mods more prevelant or not take up inventory space or something though because you have to hoard all the good mods right out the gate if you want to have the flexability to mod weapons with good mods regularly.

Some of this would be eleviated by fixing the glitch that makes mods disappear when you remove them. Lost a whole set of blue mods that way.

If you keep the weapon and remove the mods there supposed to disapear. If you keep the mods the weapon disapears, are you loosing the mods and weapon when choosing to keep mods? if so I would log a bug report or submit a ticket.

Arsenic_Touch
04-07-2013, 02:16 AM
Not true it's been said there is progressions...just moderately. I mean at Ego rating 800 my grenades do 200 more dog than the 50 variant.

Grenades and shields are the only thing that scale. Weapons don't. They have the same damage from the get go, which is what the OP is talking about and he's right.

@op, you're right about the 3% loot drop on critical kills. I actually went through like 10 side missions and didn't get a single item drop despite getting critical kills, it's so miniscule it's not worth the perk slot. Item drops are just abysmal.

Scyris
04-07-2013, 02:17 AM
Is also an issue with the weapons themselves, some weapons are weak as hell and just eat a ton of ammo, meanwhile you could use a diff weapon that does way more per shot and has way better ammo efficency. Smg's are pretty bad for damage to ammo ratio. 200 more damage for 750 ego levels is not really much in the way of progression in my eyes. I just don't see much point in grinding ego levels out with the current loot system.

If I could get a refund I probally would, the game is like a really ****ty version of borderlands thats missing all the stuff that made borderlands fun.

CapN CooK 420
04-07-2013, 02:19 AM
I really wish the weapon advancements were more like borderlands. That games weapon progression was great

Dunnomatic
04-07-2013, 02:21 AM
Ive done retrieve and had it delete them and lose the weapon. Ive submitted a report and have seen it mentioned on here by others as happening some.

Dunnomatic
04-07-2013, 02:24 AM
Is also an issue with the weapons themselves, some weapons are weak as hell and just eat a ton of ammo, meanwhile you could use a diff weapon that does way more per shot and has way better ammo efficency. Smg's are pretty bad for damage to ammo ratio. 200 more damage for 750 ego levels is not really much in the way of progression in my eyes. I just don't see much point in grinding ego levels out with the current loot system.
Not all of them. Some may burn thru ammo but Ive got one that holds 50 rounds and a clip just eats hit points like a chainsaw. I have to go restock on ammo more but I roll scavenger perk so not a ton.

Jestunhi
04-07-2013, 02:25 AM
This is not a game where you spend hour farming the best loots to give yourself an artificial advantage.

This is a game where how well you can aim, etc decides how well you do.


There is limited vertical progression, but don't expect to find a +12 LMG of pwnage which does significantly more damage than normal LMGs.

Vinotaur0
04-07-2013, 02:34 AM
People who think this game takes skill are hilarious. Do you find it difficult to shoot at enemy AI who are quite literally brain dead? What part of this game is challenging to you? You can't use 'skill' as am excuse for lackluster character progression when the game itself is easy

Jestunhi
04-07-2013, 02:36 AM
People who think this game takes skill are hilarious. Do you find it difficult to shoot at enemy AI who are quite literally brain dead? What part of this game is challenging to you? You can't use 'skill' as am excuse for lackluster character progression when the game itself is easy

People who don't know what skill means are hilarious.

Football players can be "skilled" at kicking a ball - how hard is that?

Chefs can be skilled at cooking - is putting a frying pan on a hob hard work?


You seem to think skill = difficulty. Look up the word then come back.



It's quite simple.

Good players want skill to decide the outcome.

Bad players want to be able to farm phat loots which mean they are able to win despite being bad.

minors2012
04-07-2013, 02:55 AM
People who don't know what skill means are hilarious.

Football players can be "skilled" at kicking a ball - how hard is that?

Chefs can be skilled at cooking - is putting a frying pan on a hob hard work?


You seem to think skill = difficulty. Look up the word then come back.



It's quite simple.

Good players want skill to decide the outcome.

Bad players want to be able to farm phat loots which mean they are able to win despite being bad.


its really really annoying when people compare this game to borderlands its nothing like it for 1 its made by 2k2 and this is made by trion and thats a co-op game NOT an mmo and the thing about the weapons not progressing its called being balanced in pvp and when u play with lower level people if ur guna moan about the drops and the game DONT play it simple.

Fiancee
04-07-2013, 02:56 AM
Wait when you find first legendary, basically purple and orange are worth to use.

Fiancee
04-07-2013, 02:57 AM
Ive done retrieve and had it delete them and lose the weapon. Ive submitted a report and have seen it mentioned on here by others as happening some.

It happened to me too.

Dixa
04-07-2013, 03:00 AM
People who think this game takes skill are hilarious. Do you find it difficult to shoot at enemy AI who are quite literally brain dead? What part of this game is challenging to you? You can't use 'skill' as am excuse for lackluster character progression when the game itself is easy

the number of people who are having a difficult time with nim tells me you may just be a hipster troll.

Jestunhi
04-07-2013, 03:01 AM
its really really annoying when people compare this game to borderlands its nothing like it for 1 its made by 2k2 and this is made by trion and thats a co-op game NOT an mmo and the thing about the weapons not progressing its called being balanced in pvp and when u play with lower level people if ur guna moan about the drops and the game DONT play it simple.

I wasn't complaining about it, I am perfectly happy for skill to decide the outcome instead of who farmed the best loot and/or played for the longest amount of time.

IIFatalshockII
04-07-2013, 03:01 AM
Uhh, while I agree there should be a little more to Damage increase... Think of PvP. You really want to be rolling as a Lv 250 against a Lv 1K if there is a really dramatic Damage shift? You'd get massacred. 2K you'd get killed in one shot from across the map. 3K you would just instantly die and have no idea what happened. 4K you should be running as fast as you can in the opposite direction when you learn one is within 7Km of you. 5K... Kill yourself now, and spare your character the pain.

boosted gear
04-07-2013, 03:22 AM
Ive done retrieve and had it delete them and lose the weapon. Ive submitted a report and have seen it mentioned on here by others as happening some.

Thanks for the info im going to be super careful with mods now when I get to start playing. Hopefuly theres a fix in the big patch on the 15th

Scyris
04-07-2013, 03:48 AM
Uhh, while I agree there should be a little more to Damage increase... Think of PvP. You really want to be rolling as a Lv 250 against a Lv 1K if there is a really dramatic Damage shift? You'd get massacred. 2K you'd get killed in one shot from across the map. 3K you would just instantly die and have no idea what happened. 4K you should be running as fast as you can in the opposite direction when you learn one is within 7Km of you. 5K... Kill yourself now, and spare your character the pain.

Sadly this game is not designed for pvp, its a pve shooter with pvp just tacked on like most themeparks, the pvp doesn't really mean anything in this game, its just there, I highly doubt trion gives a damn if pvp is balanced in this game.

Either way its pretty damn lazy of them to not have damage scaling on weapons based on its level, If your worried about pvp all they have to do is bascally cap all the guns base damage to the default for that weapon when in pvp/pvp flagged. People don't seem to know the diff between a game made for pvp (dark age of camelot) compared to a pve game with some crappy pvp tacked on (pretty much every themepark like wow).

Besides in games like these, its all about who has the faster pc and the most accurite aimbot. Its a shooter, expect a large chunk of the players in pvp to be using some sort of cheat program, it just comes with the shooter terrtory.

Ichidakiller
04-07-2013, 09:31 AM
People less then 1000 ego complaining about weapon progression.....

Here lets explain this in a way most people will understand.
If this game has 5000ego cap right. And your say 700. If you think about that in terms of an MMORPG level. I'll go with wow since most people have played that at least once.

If 5000ego =lvl 60 (the nilla wow level cap).
having 700ego is like being lvl 8-9 in wow.
If a lvl 9 (going high end for arguments sake) was on the forums. Whining
The lvl 10weapons are only slightly better then the lvl 1 weapons the progression of this game sucks...etc etc. He would be ridiculed off the forums.
How about you hit at least half the lvl cap before ya complain the weapons dont scale. Between mods, synergy bonuses and perks the weapons scale quite nice. Yes its not hey you gained a few level he's a weapon the will level a city block as of wow.

Some people won't be happy until they gain 500ego and get a small tactical nuke and instant I win button.

knightblaster
04-07-2013, 09:36 AM
People less then 1000 ego complaining about weapon progression.....

Here lets explain this in a way most people will understand.
If this game has 5000ego cap right. And your say 700. If you think about that in terms of an MMORPG level. I'll go with wow since most people have played that at least once.

If 5000ego =lvl 60 (the nilla wow level cap).
having 700ego is like being lvl 8-9 in wow.
If a lvl 9 (going high end for arguments sake) was on the forums. Whining
The lvl 10weapons are only slightly better then the lvl 1 weapons the progression of this game sucks...etc etc. He would be ridiculed off the forums.
How about you hit at least half the lvl cap before ya complain the weapons dont scale. Between mods, synergy bonuses and perks the weapons scale quite nice. Yes its not hey you gained a few level he's a weapon the will level a city block as of wow.

Some people won't be happy until they gain 500ego and get a small tactical nuke and instant I win button.

It's a good point. The way I think of it is that 100 ego is like 1 level, and so there are fifty levels to level cap. When you have, say, 900 ego, you're basically level 9 in a 50 level game.