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View Full Version : This has gotta be fixed



Meee
06-21-2016, 03:46 AM
Ever since the new patch this game has simply been un playable . I would love to send in tracer reports however I am on PS3 so this cannot be done . The only function I have been able to do is list items on the exchange . This was until today which now every time I even select the exchange my system crashes .

Please just hook up a PS3 and look and see what many of us are talking about .

Olaf
06-21-2016, 03:53 AM
Ever since the new patch this game has simply been un playable . I would love to send in tracer reports however I am on PS3 so this cannot be done . The only function I have been able to do is list items on the exchange . This was until today which now every time I even select the exchange my system crashes .

Please just hook up a PS3 and look and see what many of us are talking about .

+1.

Tracerts are good and all but when all they have todo is login to a ps3 live server for a day of playing and experience all the rubbish we have to put up with/talk about....

Also where are we supposed to tracert? Trionworlds.com?

Devs if you do boot up and play on live ps3 server, try join the new pvp map, or Cronkite coop, or warmaster, see what we are often presented with. Try the military academy pvp map, see the serious frame rate issues it has on ps3.

Bentu
06-21-2016, 05:42 AM
I've no idea if this is how they do things but I read somewhere that another Trion game got brand new servers so I was just wondering if the saves from that game got moved to our servers temporarily while they complete the move on the other game.
If they do it that way wouldn't it overload our servers?

Ronin9572
06-21-2016, 06:48 AM
I've had plenty more dc's and lag recently, but at least I'm able to play. I feel really bad for the ppl not even able to login or even if they are, just being able to do a thing and stay on. Ever since the Armistice the game has gotten worse by the day. Every patch is making it worse. Of course it don't help that Trion doesn't seem to be coming forward and addressing this at all. They want their bit store sales to go up, but I'm sure that it's going the opposite direction! More and more of my clan mates and PSN friends are leaving this game to play other games. I've been really busy as of late with summer here and a baby on the way. So my time playing has been limited and will be for awhile. But I've still been looking at other game options. Just hope Trion wakes up soon to realize what's going on, or maybe this was planned...

DEATHBRINGER210
06-21-2016, 09:24 AM
man this lag is crazy in pvp

r1p
06-21-2016, 09:32 AM
man this lag is crazy in pvp

I haven't been experiencing any lag lately that is out of the ordinary for this game but I haven't been on today and I don't play PvP. Is this something new or confined to PvP?

Hunter0
06-21-2016, 09:37 AM
Is the community about to.........? (Guess) :)

DEATHBRINGER210
06-21-2016, 09:51 AM
I haven't been experiencing any lag lately that is out of the ordinary for this game but I haven't been on today and I don't play PvP. Is this something new or confined to PvP?

in same areas players and npcs fail to load in

kkdubz
06-21-2016, 10:32 AM
Before you say "I can't do this cause I play on a console," unless you physically don't have a PC, you can in fact help. Early this morning at 1 am est on xbox 360 NA I was hit with bad latency. I decided to run these tests on my pc even though I was playing xbox. The results were shocking. I have attached a picture of them here. I then sent these results to kiwi as she has stated in the news and announcement section. Remember that 250 ms ping time and such is pretty bad.

10173

Keeper Riff
06-21-2016, 11:09 AM
Before you say "I can't do this cause I play on a console," unless you physically don't have a PC, you can in fact help.Does the console connect directly to Trion Server (is its IP the same as for PC?) or does it connect to its manufacturer's network like PSN, using it as a proxy to connect to game servers? In the latter case, the routing for the console and for PC would be completely different.

On your screenshot, it's your ISP causing problems, not Trion.

kkdubz
06-21-2016, 11:40 AM
Although the routing might go through xbox, via a proxy as you suggest, it does not clarify that it is my isp. I can show you a test I did right before 1 am, and it looks very nice, sub 50 ms pings, etc. And the xbox was running fine. The reason you can do this, even though your console and pc have different ip addresses, is because the tracert goes through different steps ip at trion worlds server (if I have understood what glyph says about that) link posted here https://support.trionworlds.com/hc/en-us/articles/203364528-How-to-run-network-tests . Therefor I do not think it is my isp. When I get bad latency issues, (and so does a lot of other players at the same time on xbox) and I run the test, it shouldn't be my isp that has a problem if I can do other things (play elder scrolls online for example), and ping just fine to other ip's, but not for defiance. However, I'm not a 100% computer wiz, I'm just trying to do what the devs are asking of us to try and help, so I may not understand the system at hand 100%. Also, I'm not sure how you can inquire it's my isp from that screenshot, but I unfortunately have to disagree at this point until I learn more about the situation itself if it is my isp or trion's servers.

edit: to clarify- My xbox was running smooth before 1 am, then had latency from 1 am-2 am, then went smooth again. During this time I did speed tests, etc (just to make sure I wasn't going crazy and my internet didn't crap out) and all seemed fine then. The screenshot is from right after it started. I have screenshots from before 1 am, and after it cleared around 2 am, and all in between in around 5 minute increments. Again though, I'm not 100% on the whole thing, I was just following instructions, and using what I do know to try to help where I could. If kiwi or a dev says that using a pc when xbox or playstation is having latency is not helpful, then I will not send in my reports. But in the event they could be, i suggest others to try to help better the game as much as we can.

Jimmie Mac
06-21-2016, 12:04 PM
Although the routing might go through xbox, via a proxy as you suggest, it does not clarify that it is my isp. I can show you a test I did right before 1 am, and it looks very nice, sub 50 ms pings, etc. And the xbox was running fine. The reason you can do this, even though your console and pc have different ip addresses, is because the tracert goes through different steps ip at trion worlds server (if I have understood what glyph says about that) link posted here https://support.trionworlds.com/hc/en-us/articles/203364528-How-to-run-network-tests . Therefor I do not think it is my isp. When I get bad latency issues, (and so does a lot of other players at the same time on xbox) and I run the test, it shouldn't be my isp that has a problem if I can do other things (play elder scrolls online for example), and ping just fine to other ip's, but not for defiance. However, I'm not a 100% computer wiz, I'm just trying to do what the devs are asking of us to try and help, so I may not understand the system at hand 100%. Also, I'm not sure how you can inquire it's my isp from that screenshot, but I unfortunately have to disagree at this point until I learn more about the situation itself if it is my isp or trion's servers.

"Also, I'm not sure how you can inquire it's my isp from that screenshot, but I unfortunately have to disagree at this point until I learn more about the situation itself if it is my isp or trion's servers."

Because the first hop (99.121.228.3) beyond your router (192.168.1.254) has a latency of between 828 and 924 ms. If at the time you did this you simply did a trace route to 99.121.228.3 (clearly still in the AT&T network) you would still have had ridiculously high latency.

I'm not attacking you or trying to be rude. Unfortunately Trion (and all internet/cloud/SAAS) providers is at the mercy of connections they have no control over. They can only control up to the point where their infrastructure meets the internet. Anything and everything beyond that point is completely out of their control. I'm not saying definitively that there's no issue with Trion (I have no idea). I'm simply saying latency (and lag) issues typically are far complex than most people realize.

kkdubz
06-21-2016, 12:19 PM
NO! Your fine. I was not trying to be rude either, but I was confused about that so thank you. Like I said I'm not 100% a wiz at somethings, so I'm trying to understand. So could you clarify the first hop part a bit more? I believe your saying because the first hop makes the claim that its the isp because the latency is so high on #2? Does the first step #1 being low mean my "router" and the second step, #2, being at&t? which would mean the whole rest of the data basically doesn't matter? Which would kinda suck.

Although that doesn't explain why I could play ESO (on pc) fine, or why others were also having latency issues right, unless it was all an at&t issue all-together? If i want to clarify isp from trion what should I look for just so I have more information on what's useful and not? Would being directly connected still make this happen? (I know a lot of questions so ty)

Jimmie Mac
06-21-2016, 01:01 PM
TCP/IP network traffic passes through multiple network devices (routers) on its way to the its destination. Each one of these devices is a hop that you'll see listed in a trace route. So when sending a trace route from your computer (the source) to 208.94.26.5 the first hop (since the destination address is not part of your local area network) will be your router (192.168.1.254) which is defined on your network adapter properties as the default gateway. Each router (or hop) will forward each packet to another router based on its routing rules (routes).

As far as why you don't see issues with other games (I experience the same things you do comparing Defiance to my other games) it would seem that Defiance is very sensitive to network latency. In my (uninformed) opinion more sensitive than any of my other games.

To see if it's an ISP issue you could run trace routes to other addresses (google.com as an example) and compare the results. And I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "directly connected". Maybe wired vs wireless? If so, based on the <1ms latency to your router it shouldn't matter.

Soul Binder
06-21-2016, 03:21 PM
Trion has been ducking the latency/disconnect issue forever by always claiming it has to be people's network connections and not their servers/network connection at fault.

Asking players to submit traces to them is just their way of once again trying to dodge the bullet on this issue.

Fact that most users can play other online games, some with higher network requirements than Defiance and experience little to no issue with connectivity/latency tends to support community opinion that most issues are on Trion's end and not the users or somewhere in between.

What Trion needs to do is get their dev's out of the office and have them use real world connections on the live version of the game for a few days so that they will have a first hand experience of the frustration most of us deal with on a regular basis while trying to play Defiance.
While I'm far from any sort of computer wiz, if I was to hazard a guess I'd say the issue isn't actually with the servers but with Trion failing to provide a robust enough pipeline between those servers and the internet. In otherwords they are creating a bottleneck because of an unwillingness to pay for extra infrastructure.

kkdubz
06-21-2016, 03:23 PM
Okay awesome. Thank you so much for information!

So just to double check, it appears my isp was the possible cause of the latency. How do I differentiate that from a trion worlds latency issue? using my screenshot at an example, where should the numbers be higher and where should the numbers be lower, in general, as there's no point in sending these in if they all turn out to be my isp (if it's router/computer based that may be hard to answer, but it would be awesome if you could throw an example out there).

Side question: Let's say my isp was running fine, and my pc detected latency issues, would my results still be useful (in your opinion) even though I play on a console? Or would there be too much of a difference?

Meee
06-21-2016, 05:38 PM
Trion has been ducking the latency/disconnect issue forever by always claiming it has to be people's network connections and not their servers/network connection at fault.

Asking players to submit traces to them is just their way of once again trying to dodge the bullet on this issue.

Fact that most users can play other online games, some with higher network requirements than Defiance and experience little to no issue with connectivity/latency tends to support community opinion that most issues are on Trion's end and not the users or somewhere in between.

What Trion needs to do is get their dev's out of the office and have them use real world connections on the live version of the game for a few days so that they will have a first hand experience of the frustration most of us deal with on a regular basis while trying to play Defiance.
While I'm far from any sort of computer wiz, if I was to hazard a guess I'd say the issue isn't actually with the servers but with Trion failing to provide a robust enough pipeline between those servers and the internet. In otherwords they are creating a bottleneck because of an unwillingness to pay for extra infrastructure.

That would be a form of torture . Here is a PS3 play on this for the 40 hours you would work this week and make a log of your movements and dis connection

Mrdr
06-21-2016, 05:39 PM
Trion has been ducking the latency/disconnect issue forever by always claiming it has to be people's network connections and not their servers/network connection at fault.

Asking players to submit traces to them is just their way of once again trying to dodge the bullet on this issue.

Fact that most users can play other online games, some with higher network requirements than Defiance and experience little to no issue with connectivity/latency tends to support community opinion that most issues are on Trion's end and not the users or somewhere in between.

What Trion needs to do is get their dev's out of the office and have them use real world connections on the live version of the game for a few days so that they will have a first hand experience of the frustration most of us deal with on a regular basis while trying to play Defiance.
While I'm far from any sort of computer wiz, if I was to hazard a guess I'd say the issue isn't actually with the servers but with Trion failing to provide a robust enough pipeline between those servers and the internet. In otherwords they are creating a bottleneck because of an unwillingness to pay for extra infrastructure.

You hit the nail on the head. Trion will never deign to hook up a console to the live network from outside their own walls...it's pretty much already been stated.

Bentu
06-21-2016, 07:06 PM
You hit the nail on the head. Trion will never deign to hook up a console to the live network from outside their own walls...it's pretty much already been stated.

They did it for a xbox deathmarch a while back but ps3 wouldn't have better luck than a snow balls chance in hell of that happening.

RKZX2
06-21-2016, 11:19 PM
ok. it's 11:15 pm PST. i just did a pc speedtest to a San Fran server through speedtest.net this is what i got.

d/l 37.24
u/l 5.54
ping 30ms

through my xbox

d/l 35.38
u/l 5.70
ping 18ms

i don't know if this helps any.

RealBadAtNaming
06-22-2016, 05:29 AM
Spend a lot of money every month and I'm giving up. Like everyone else can't play without getting kicked and its gotten worse instead of bette .

Keeper Riff
06-22-2016, 11:24 AM
using my screenshot at an example, where should the numbers be higher and where should the numbers be lower, in general, as there's no point in sending these in if they all turn out to be my isp Ok, I think I can explain this one.

Example 1


1 low time <your router>
2 low time node2
3 * * * node3
4 low time node4
5 low time node5
Node 3 is not configured to answer PING requests, but transfers the information just fine. Nothing to worry about.

Similar to that, Example 2:



1 low time <your router>
2 low time node2
3 high time node3
4 low time node4
5 low time node5
Node 3 has the reply to PING requests set to low priority to avoid DDOS, but transfers the information just fine. Nothing to worry about.

Example 3:


1 low time <your router>
2 low time node2
3 high time node3
4 high time node4
5 high time node5

Node 3 takes long to respond AND causes a significant delay to the information which passes to all subsequent nodes. If the domain name of Node 3 does not show its owner clearly, search its IP through whois databases (http://www.iana.org/numbers) to know who owns the faulty gateway.

Example 4:


1 low time <your router>
2 low time node2
3 low time node3
4 low time node4
5 high time node5
Only the final gateway takes long to respond and it's clearly on Trion's side, BUT there's a possibility that the high response time was caused by the gateway being configured to put PING requests on a back-burner, like it was shown in Example 2. So the high response time on the last gateway does not automatically mean you'll get poor performance when your client connects to Trion's server.

Same way, having low response time throughout the whole route does not guarantee there will be no lags. The server can quickly respond to the PING, but it still may be slow to send actual information to the client OR it'll have to wait for other servers' response in the Trion local network (e.g. billing base, zone server, exchange server, etc.)

As a live example, here's my trace:

1 <1 мs <1 мs <1 мs <my router>
2 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 95.31.0.1
3 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms zubov-bng1-local.msk.corbina.net [85.21.0.240]
4 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 10.2.247.0
5 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms m9-crs-2-be9.corbina.net [195.14.62.88]
6 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms 195.14.62.67
7 19 ms 20 ms 19 ms xe-9-1-2.bar1.Stockholm1.Level3.net [213.242.110.105]
8 127 ms 127 ms 127 ms ae-1-51.edge1.NewYork2.Level3.net [4.69.138.194]
9 127 ms 127 ms 127 ms ae-1-51.edge1.NewYork2.Level3.net [4.69.138.194]
10 130 ms 128 ms 128 ms comcast-level3.NewYork2.level3.net [4.68.127.2]
11 135 ms 135 ms 135 ms be-10103-cr02.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.85.161]
12 148 ms 149 ms 149 ms be-10114-cr02.56marietta.ga.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.85.10]
13 167 ms 166 ms 167 ms be-11424-cr02.dallas.tx.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.85.22]
14 167 ms 167 ms 166 ms be-17-pe02.1950stemmons.tx.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.83.122]
15 166 ms 166 ms 184 ms 66.208.216.210
16 166 ms 166 ms 166 ms dal-r09-fcp.dal.triongames.com [208.94.26.5]

My most limiting factor is the Stockholm — New York line which is understandable knowing the distance.


Side question: Let's say my isp was running fine, and my pc detected latency issues, would my results still be useful (in your opinion) even though I play on a console? Or would there be too much of a difference? Depending on how the network play for consoles is organized, this may spread from "what you see on PC is what you get on console" if the console connects to trion servers using the same route as PC and the server IP is the same or at least they share the same subnet, to "you can only test the part of the route passing through your ISP" if the console connects to Microsoft network and Microsoft server works as a proxy to pass the data to Trion servers.