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View Full Version : Questions about testing on PTS (Yeah some ION related stuff in here)



Chump Norris
07-31-2016, 08:54 PM
Hey All,

A "nerf" would constitute something that was changed after it went live. In this case, we put a shield on PTS for testing, and found in that testing that it was a bit too strong comparatively. The final product that you see on live is where we intend to keep it, and if that changes we will be sure to let everyone know!

As always, remember that PTS content is never final, and can change prior to Live release.

When you say "a bit too strong comparatively" what was it compared to? Has the Darkest Hour been put through this same type of rigorous testing? Was it to strong in PvE or PvP or both? How many people took part in the testing?

Last one for now..

When you take advice from people (especially when it come to something being OP) do you bother to check that they use PTS and have tested the things they claim?

I really like you Destro and hate that your new position means you're the go to guy for flak on these things, but this wasn't handled properly and should be resolved before everyone vendors their Ion Shields.

If your solution is to make all shields the same cap as their basic counterparts fine so be it, but if DH is considered fine cap wise then Ion was too.

Bentu
07-31-2016, 09:01 PM
Well if the Ion had a capacity that was too high then why hasn't the Darkest Hours capacity been reduced?

There's absolutely no reasoning to their decisions in this game.

Chump Norris
07-31-2016, 09:22 PM
Hopefully when morning rolls around and Destro see's this thread he can provide us with some insight.

Chump Norris
08-01-2016, 10:28 PM
Well this reminds me of when Ocho replaced Kiwi as community manager and the team went silent..sadly I don't think Kiwi will be coming back to the rescue this time :(

Bentu
08-02-2016, 06:38 AM
Well this reminds me of when Ocho replaced Kiwi as community manager and the team went silent..sadly I don't think Kiwi will be coming back to the rescue this time :(

It actually reminds me of way back when we got that letter from Trick.
Kiwi was brought in to quell the storm I believe well now we're in the doldrums and becalmed.

MasterProtector
08-02-2016, 07:47 AM
mind you before they changed it the ion shield would have had an even higher capacity than the DH with a resistance at that... also... exl items dropped with a unique buff thats been present since the first exl, the darkest hour has no more than 2k more capacity than your normal ironclad at supreme and 6ke. but with no resistance at all the darkest hour isnt all that hard to break in a normal sense, though mind you the 3 synergies darkest hours can be found in 2 of which rely on shield break for their perks.

r1p
08-02-2016, 09:15 AM
I'm still trying to find where it is written that no shield can have a higher cap than EXL shields. Personally I don't buy that this or the Piper shield nerfs had anything to do with the EXL shields but rather an extremely vocal minority that live in PvP and Trion making sure that people use more Hunter Reqs in expeditions.

Destromathe
08-02-2016, 10:37 AM
Hey All,

I would be happy to comment on this. We strive very hard to keep everything as balanced in game as we can. The EXL shields were implemented several years ago, and was also a very limited time item. The main issue with shields that are being referenced here, is the ease at which they are obtained, and in regards specifically to the Piper shield, an actual bug in the capacity calculation. Defiance is a game where you are fighting to obtain the best weapons and items in the game. When those best items are awarded for easy pursuits or missions, there is no feeling of accomplishment, which leads to no feeling of reward.

We are always looking at balance, and one of the balance topics we absolutely want to touch on is shields. It is on our list, and absolutely something we want to get in line. But rather than lower the capacity on an already existing rare shield, we would prefer to introduce new shields, that drop in the world rather than from pursuits or missions, that are on par. Keep an eye out for changes like this in the future.

Jerrmy12
08-02-2016, 12:01 PM
Hey All,

I would be happy to comment on this. We strive very hard to keep everything as balanced in game as we can. The EXL shields were implemented several years ago, and was also a very limited time item. The main issue with shields that are being referenced here, is the ease at which they are obtained, and in regards specifically to the Piper shield, an actual bug in the capacity calculation. Defiance is a game where you are fighting to obtain the best weapons and items in the game. When those best items are awarded for easy pursuits or missions, there is no feeling of accomplishment, which leads to no feeling of reward.

We are always looking at balance, and one of the balance topics we absolutely want to touch on is shields. It is on our list, and absolutely something we want to get in line. But rather than lower the capacity on an already existing rare shield, we would prefer to introduce new shields, that drop in the world rather than from pursuits or missions, that are on par. Keep an eye out for changes like this in the future.
The ion shield isn't balanced at all though, it is a limited time event item, and is worse than literally any ironclad shield in the game. It has 3.6s less delay (?) But half the recharge rate, has the same cap, and comes at t4.

PithHelmetIrath
08-02-2016, 12:09 PM
Hey All,

I would be happy to comment on this. We strive very hard to keep everything as balanced in game as we can. The EXL shields were implemented several years ago, and was also a very limited time item. The main issue with shields that are being referenced here, is the ease at which they are obtained, and in regards specifically to the Piper shield, an actual bug in the capacity calculation. Defiance is a game where you are fighting to obtain the best weapons and items in the game. When those best items are awarded for easy pursuits or missions, there is no feeling of accomplishment, which leads to no feeling of reward.

We are always looking at balance, and one of the balance topics we absolutely want to touch on is shields. It is on our list, and absolutely something we want to get in line. But rather than lower the capacity on an already existing rare shield, we would prefer to introduce new shields, that drop in the world rather than from pursuits or missions, that are on par. Keep an eye out for changes like this in the future.

Well, if those changes don't happen before October.. it'll be an even easier decision letting my XBL Gold subscription expire.

Bentu
08-02-2016, 12:32 PM
Hey All,

I would be happy to comment on this. We strive very hard to keep everything as balanced in game as we can. The EXL shields were implemented several years ago, and was also a very limited time item. The main issue with shields that are being referenced here, is the ease at which they are obtained, and in regards specifically to the Piper shield, an actual bug in the capacity calculation. Defiance is a game where you are fighting to obtain the best weapons and items in the game. When those best items are awarded for easy pursuits or missions, there is no feeling of accomplishment, which leads to no feeling of reward.

We are always looking at balance, and one of the balance topics we absolutely want to touch on is shields. It is on our list, and absolutely something we want to get in line. But rather than lower the capacity on an already existing rare shield, we would prefer to introduce new shields, that drop in the world rather than from pursuits or missions, that are on par. Keep an eye out for changes like this in the future.


This must be right because it made no sense to me and didn't address the op questions.

Kuroro
08-02-2016, 02:08 PM
We strive very hard to keep everything as balanced in game as we can.

I am a pvper and I have a supreme darkest hour,IŽll tell you 2 things to make pvp more balanced:

1-People using shields with the same capacity (this is why your quote is contradictory,Ion insulator has a bit more capacity than other shields but his recharge time sucks,I am a pvper and I know what I say,Ion insulator would have been useful just against 1 enemy,after someone quits a part of the shield youŽd be in disavantage having equiped Ion insulator)

2-Its known that it was a pvp nerf so I am gonna tell you the biggest disbalance in pvp: people joining in groups to have numerical advantage.If a group joins a match since the beggining it becomes 2 vs 4 (for example),if a group joins a started match its team has 4 more players than the other team.If you want a balance disable pvp for groups instead of nerfing almost useless shields

Another thing,the complainers here on forums are a minority,there are thousands of players in game that do not come here on forums asking for nerfs and they really know what should be changed,as I am telling you how the facts are

Chump Norris
08-02-2016, 03:26 PM
Hey All,

I would be happy to comment on this. We strive very hard to keep everything as balanced in game as we can. The EXL shields were implemented several years ago, and was also a very limited time item. The main issue with shields that are being referenced here, is the ease at which they are obtained, and in regards specifically to the Piper shield, an actual bug in the capacity calculation. Defiance is a game where you are fighting to obtain the best weapons and items in the game. When those best items are awarded for easy pursuits or missions, there is no feeling of accomplishment, which leads to no feeling of reward.

Ok so it boils down to it being to easy for everyone to get a decent shield and not that it was OP? People would still have chased for Expo SUP shields btw you just listened to non PTS testing DH owner crap telling you this was the only shield people would use. Wanna know the feeling of no reward? Chase down the minors for the Ion pursuit and check out your sweet new shield.


We are always looking at balance, and one of the balance topics we absolutely want to touch on is shields. It is on our list, and absolutely something we want to get in line. But rather than lower the capacity on an already existing rare shield, we would prefer to introduce new shields, that drop in the world rather than from pursuits or missions, that are on par. Keep an eye out for changes like this in the future.

Yep so again wasn't actually about being OP like we were told, it was just to easy for people to get a decent shield. Again we already have good shields in game right now to chase for in EXPO that don't drop from pursuits or missions....but anyway buddy I guess i'll keep my eyes on the next bundles or boxes so I can see the new shield you guys working on.

Chump Norris
08-02-2016, 03:47 PM
I'm just going to say this right here since this will be deleted by you guys..

Ion being nerfed because it was to easy to get and not the original reason you told us about it being OP is hopefully the last lie you tell us, bad start for a new creative lead..

W84IT
08-02-2016, 04:25 PM
I'm just going to say this right here since this will be deleted by you guys..

Ion being nerfed because it was to easy to get and not the original reason you told us about it being OP is hopefully the last lie you tell us, bad start for a new creative lead..

We get your frustration,you've been saying for the last few days what most of us think and feel,that maybe the only reason to play this event got destroyed by 1 or 2 individuals crying nerf....coincidence or not

Mrdr
08-02-2016, 04:38 PM
Hey All,

I would be happy to comment on this. We strive very hard to keep everything as balanced in game as we can. The EXL shields were implemented several years ago, and was also a very limited time item. The main issue with shields that are being referenced here, is the ease at which they are obtained, and in regards specifically to the Piper shield, an actual bug in the capacity calculation. Defiance is a game where you are fighting to obtain the best weapons and items in the game. When those best items are awarded for easy pursuits or missions, there is no feeling of accomplishment, which leads to no feeling of reward.

We are always looking at balance, and one of the balance topics we absolutely want to touch on is shields. It is on our list, and absolutely something we want to get in line. But rather than lower the capacity on an already existing rare shield, we would prefer to introduce new shields, that drop in the world rather than from pursuits or missions, that are on par. Keep an eye out for changes like this in the future.

Have to call BS here. You say you nerfed it and the piper shields (which originally were working as intended but somehow that disappeared) due to no one feeling a sense of accomplishment or reward are you even listening to your customers? We've been saying for over a year how incredibly ****ed up the RNG is, how we don't buy the whole "longer more fulfilling chase" line, and how effort in this game NEVER yields a reward OR a sense of accomplishment. How many well respected vets have moved on because of this? Always looking at balance? Maybe balancing Trion's check book because it sure isn't the reward to effort ratio unless it's in the favor of the bitstore.

Do you even Defiance bro?

Chump Norris
08-02-2016, 04:50 PM
Have to call BS here. You say you nerfed it and the piper shields (which originally were working as intended but somehow that disappeared) due to no one feeling a sense of accomplishment or reward are you even listening to your customers? We've been saying for over a year how incredibly ****ed up the RNG is, how we don't buy the whole "longer more fulfilling chase" line, and how effort in this game NEVER yields a reward OR a sense of accomplishment. How many well respected vets have more vex on because of this? Always looking at balance? Maybe balancing Trion's check book because it sure isn't the reward to effort ratio unless it's in the favor of the bitstore.

Do you even Defiance bro?

lol and it wasn't even about these chase when he first addressed the nerf..


Hey All,

A "nerf" would constitute something that was changed after it went live. In this case, we put a shield on PTS for testing, and found in that testing that it was a bit too strong comparatively. The final product that you see on live is where we intend to keep it, and if that changes we will be sure to let everyone know!

As always, remember that PTS content is never final, and can change prior to Live release.

I had higher hopes for Creative Lead Destromathe..

Ea Rapture
08-02-2016, 04:57 PM
I bought and traded and was given alot of the items I have collected over time. Does this mean that I should get a dmg nerf to all of those because I didn't really work for them, only purchased and traded?

I think this makes sense. Hell, RnG doesn't mean you earned anything either! You just got a winning lotto ticket. Lets nerf everything since nothing was technically earned. In fact, the only things earned were pursuit based rewards because you had an actual objective or task you needed to complete.

Ea Rapture
08-02-2016, 05:16 PM
I am a pvper and I have a supreme darkest hour,IŽll tell you 2 things to make pvp more balanced:

1-People using shields with the same capacity (this is why your quote is contradictory,Ion insulator has a bit more capacity than other shields but his recharge time sucks,I am a pvper and I know what I say,Ion insulator would have been useful just against 1 enemy,after someone quits a part of the shield youŽd be in disavantage having equiped Ion insulator)

2-Its known that it was a pvp nerf so I am gonna tell you the biggest disbalance in pvp: people joining in groups to have numerical advantage.If a group joins a match since the beggining it becomes 2 vs 4 (for example),if a group joins a started match its team has 4 more players than the other team.If you want a balance disable pvp for groups instead of nerfing almost useless shields

Another thing,the complainers here on forums are a minority,there are thousands of players in game that do not come here on forums asking for nerfs and they really know what should be changed,as I am telling you how the facts are

How are groups cheating in PvP? This is an entirely coop game. Its in the genre name in fact. Its an MMO.

Also, there are pursuits surrounding group play in PvP. Are you saying it's cheating to complete pursuits and raise your ego?

Is it cheating to get attacked by more than one person? No. This isn't a medieval duel where you have one opponent. This is an online game where there are two teams playing Against each other. They can work together to kill you. It's the whole point of being on a team.

Anyhow, having Shields with different caps is all a part of defiance. We're all different egos and our gear is different egos. Every player will be different. Why ion insulator got nerfed is beyond me, but they won't put it back, just like they wouldn't add syphon dets to the game even though they were on pts.

Kuroro
08-02-2016, 05:38 PM
How are groups cheating in PvP? This is an entirely coop game. Its in the genre name in fact. Its an MMO.

I never said it is a cheat, it is a broken part of matchmaking unbalancing teams

Ea Rapture
08-02-2016, 06:40 PM
I never said it is a cheat, it is a broken part of matchmaking unbalancing teams

PvP is vastly unbalanced as is though. I mean, I don't PvP, but there are reasons I dont anymore

Neutronenstern
08-03-2016, 03:43 AM
Defiance is a game where you are fighting to obtain the best weapons and items in the game. When those best items are awarded for easy pursuits or missions, there is no feeling of accomplishment, which leads to no feeling of reward.


I'm sorry, but Defiance is ...what?!? Since when?
Defiance is currently a game where you hit something and with luck you get a decent item. Defiance is a game where you only have to pull a lottoticket for the best items ...or you pay at bitstore... but in no point you get anything good for fighting! Even the Expo-Supremes are more luck-based than effort.

And what means this to Slay Bells and Allegiance? Can i fight anywhere in game and win a better curier or better clustershot? (I don't mean pre-patch weapons)

The items obtained through missions and pursuits are the only items that give us a feeling of reward for accomplishment/effort.

But okay, so where are this best weapons and items i only can get for hard fighting? I'm very interested in the feeling of reward, would be new for me, since my other reward got nerfed.