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Cygnus
09-13-2016, 07:30 PM
As you read you will see im attempting to be refunded for a fraction of my currencies I spent acquiring, upgrading and changing rolls on the purgatory. Here seemed as good a place as any to post . Please comment!!!

Customer support recommended that I share this on the forum to get customer feedback and maybe a developer will see it. I chose to personal message destromathe instead.

As you read you will see I am polite with my request even though no real customer support is offered. The 2nd and 3rd reply from CS seem intended to escalate the experience rather than find a solution that keeps the customer playing, spending money, happy with the experience, and saying nice things about CS. Im not sure if CS is improperly trained or if they are instructed to treat customers in this manner instead.

My request was to be refunded the currencies I used to aquire, upgrade, and change rolls on the purgatory. The reason I believe I should be reimbursed is this, the purgatory was not operating as advertised, but I was unaware and invested real money for arkforge and ingame currencies to aquire. I would not have pursued or invested in the current version of purgatory. Because the purgatory was not as advertised, its faulty digital content. Most ethical companies would agree and offer the customers unhappy with the replacement a refund or a discount of some sort.*

The purgatory fix is much different than the supernova fix. In the case of the nova, owners were left with a crap gun but were never really out any currencies because legendary was the highest teir at the time. Because the purgatory came purple you had 2 rarity teirs and one was a gamble. I mention the supernova because this is the last instance I recall that a specific weapon was changed after its released live.

I spent more money on purgatory than any other item since the beginning of the game. Ive spent more on this game than any other ive ever played. Experiences like this make me question that decision. I dont intend to make threats as to quitting the game or not spending any more money on defiance. But this experience definitely doesnt sit well with me, and has tainted my feelings toward CS and the game itself.

I dont see how frustrating a customer is good customer service. Most of the players who've share their CS experience really just wanted a little concession so they could feel good about continuing to play, and get back to spending money supporting the game. We shouldnt feel compelled to seek out consumer protection agencies to prevent our rights from being trampled on. Good customers deserve good customer service. I think youll find a much more receptive community if you treat us with more dignity and respect.

Refunding or crediting my chactacter Volans 25million scrip and 3000 arkforge would solve this for me. I would like to continue to play and enjoy defiance and continue to spend money supporting defiance but im waiting to see how this works out.*



Trion Worlds Support Center**My activities

REQUEST #xxxxxxPURGATORY

Sunday at 18:43

Hello, I am a day one player and patron pass holder. I would like to have my resourses refunded. I would like the 25 million scrip and 3000 arkforge I used to aquire, upgrade, and change rolls on the purgatory. It was wrong to change it after it had been in game and so many invested so much. I would not have pursued or used my resourses for the current purgatory. I can not sell it to cover my cost because it has been devalued after the fix went live. Please refund my resourses.

Thank you

Senior GM SoulwalkerSunday at 19:05

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us regarding Defiance.

I apologize for this inconvenience and any frustration you have experienced. Defiance is constantly evolving, and game updates may change what content is available from time to time. Due to these changes, unfortunately we will not be able to assist with this request.

If you have any additional questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to let us know. Thank you for your continued support of Trion Worlds and for playing Defiance.

Your reference number for this ticket is xxxxxx.

Sincerely,

Senior GM Soulwalker

Trion Worlds Inc

Yesterday at 18:17

Under the consumer rights act regarding faulty digital content the consumer has the right to a refund. I purchased 3000 arkforge from the bit store over several purchases and used ingame currency totaling 25million scrip to aquire the item before it was declared faulty. It is my right as a consumer who bought this digital content deemed faulty and i am entitled to a refund.

Because the purgatory was not as advertised when released and trion deemed it needed to be fixed qualifies as faulty and I am entitled to a refund.

Senior GM SoulwalkerYesterday at 18:19

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us regarding Defiance. Unfortunately, we're unable to assist with your request. I apologize for the inconvenience, as we try to make every effort to correct any issue our players may have.

If you have any additional questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to let us know. Thank you for your continued support of Trion Worlds and for playing Defiance.

Your reference number for this ticket is xxxxxx.

Sincerely,

Senior GM Soulwalker

Trion Worlds Inc

Yesterday at 20:14

Your response to my request is not a resolution to the problem. If we cannot come to a resolution I will file a complaint to my states attorney general, the FTC, the BBB, and my local consumer protection agency. I a wait your response.

Thank you.

Senior GM SoulwalkerYesterday at 20:14

Hello,

Regrettably, as you have indicated an intent to pursue a legal claim in an effort to resolve this customer service issue, we are unable to continue to address your concern without including our legal counsel. Please have your attorney transmit a copy of your complaint (including your relevant ticket Reference Number(s) and contact information) to our legal team.

Should you wish to resolve this issue without resorting to the legal system, please resubmit your request for assistance and include the reference number listed below.

Thank you for your continued support of Trion Worlds and for playing Defiance. Your reference number for this question is xxxxxx.

Sincerely,

Senior GM Soulwalker

Trion Worlds Inc

Yesterday at 22:21

I did not mention legal action in my message. I stated, if we dont come to a resolution I will seek assistance through consumer protection agencies. Are you offering a resolution? Because the first two of your responses said, sorry cant help.

Yesterday at 22:39

The right thing to do to resolve this matter would be to refund or credit my account 25million scrip and 3000arkforge. I would continue to be a happy customer. You may remove the purgatory from my inventory. I will use those currencies on other items and resume my normal game play. That would resolve this matter for me.

Senior GM NordToday at 00:02

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us regarding Defiance.

Unfortunately, as previously stated, we are unable to assist with your request. As you are unhappy with this policy, I would recommend submitting feedback regarding the issue at our official forums at forums.defiance.com, so that it can be viewed by our development team directly.

If you have any additional questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to let us know. Thank you for your continued support of Trion Worlds and for playing Defiance.

Your reference number for this ticket is xxxxxx.

Sincerely,

Senior GM Nord

Trion Worlds Inc

Bentu
09-13-2016, 07:36 PM
Go for it and I'll just leave it link to my reply to you in the other thread.

http://forums.defiance.com/showthread.php?248116-Thank-you-for-the-Purgatory-fix-)&p=1958309&viewfull=1#post1958309

DEATHBRINGER210
09-13-2016, 07:37 PM
same thing happened with the zagger "fix" . and no one got any refund back. we all got tricked . when the dev said that would leave the zagger as is. and alot of us bought forge to upgrade zaggers.

Cygnus
09-13-2016, 07:49 PM
I see some similarities in the zagger but, the zagger could be found orange and the option to change rolls and the supreme teir did not exist. So miltiply the out of pocket expense times ten for the purgatory.

Johnny Gatt
09-13-2016, 08:00 PM
To add to what death bringer said, in addition to forge spent in upgrading zaggers. Many people spent a lot of scrip to acquire a zero reload zagger. A fully t4 modded quartermaster radiation zagger went for around 7 million. At the time 7 million was a lot of money to spend on a weapon. Adjusting for player greed-induced inflation, it would be 20 to 25 million now, so it evens out in what purgatory owners just lost.

Trion owns all content in this game. They may modify, upgrade, even remove content at any time. We all agree to these terms every time we log in.

For once it seems that rng was good to me in a way. I never get jp drops, so never got a purgatory. If I do get one, I will store it with my zaggers.

Gingersnapped
09-13-2016, 08:16 PM
They never forced anyone to upgrade or reroll it, plus it is still in game. You have been around long enough to know if something is way OP chances are it will be found out and fixed. How long did plate slicer go unchecked before it was fixed? I can remember all the way back to when the vbi auto shotgun was awesome. My first OJ to, then it was reduced for being OP. Then Saws and so on and so on. I never jump in both feet on new weapons because of this. I hope people think about this when the new rocket firing smg comes out. It might turn out to be OP once it makes it into the masses. I am sorry for how you feel, but I don't think any compensation is required.


This right here as posted above says it all to me.

Trion owns all content in this game. They may modify, upgrade, even remove content at any time. We all agree to these terms every time we log in.

Kuroro
09-13-2016, 08:27 PM
Well I had a nice blast rifle with nice rolls that became ugly when I t6ed it,no matter what roll I change now it is still awful.I want a refund for it too,I feel scammed by the salvage matrix

Cygnus
09-13-2016, 08:48 PM
I think a few of you are missing the point. I made a reasonable request under these circumstances. I am not whining. Im asserting myself as a consumer. Which all of us are.

I spent $250 on CE bit boxes to get the supernova only to have it nerfed a week later. This is not the same. The nova was and is a radiation blast rifle. Both the CE and Plate slicer had synergy nerfs, way different. The zagger nerf is simmilar but different too.

In this situation the weapon had to be redesigned and doesnt function at all like the original. My purgatory had been supremed and supreme damage mastery with supreme damage roll. I had to make it that way. This was way before any talk of changing it. It didnt just come that way, it cost tons of forge to supreme and even more to re roll. Im not happy with the one they replaced it with and am asking for a refund.

Im also asking for a refund in place of the purgatory, not compensation. way different.

BTW, if none of this bothers you and youd like one of the nicest supreme purgatory on xbox na, it can be yours for just 25mil scrip and 3000 arkforge

DEATHBRINGER210
09-13-2016, 08:55 PM
I think a few of you are missing the point. I made a reasonable request under these circumstances. I am not whining. Im asserting myself as a consumer. Which all of us are.

I spent $250 on CE bit boxes to get the supernova only to have it nerfed a week later. This is not the same. The nova was and is a radiation blast rifle. Both the CE and Plate slicer had synergy nerfs, way different. The zagger nerf is simmilar but different too.

In this situation the weapon had to be redesigned and doesnt function at all like the original. My purgatory had been supremed and supreme damage mastery with supreme damage roll. I had to make it that way. This was way before any talk of changing it. It didnt just come that way, it cost tons of forge to supreme and even more to re roll. Im not happy with the one they replaced it with and am asking for a refund.

Im also asking for a refund in place of the purgatory, not compensation. way different.

plate slicer wasnt a nerf . they fixed a glitchout ego perk that was giving extra damage to all syns and guns . not just plate slicer.

Cygnus
09-13-2016, 09:31 PM
They never forced anyone to upgrade or reroll it, plus it is still in game. You have been around long enough to know if something is way OP chances are it will be found out and fixed.

No they didnt. But they did market purgatory as one gun, then after a lot of players spent tons of money on it, replaced it with another different version. Im not happy with the replacement, id like my resourses refunded. Its a reasonable request.

OP is an overused term in my opinion. Its usually used to describe a weapon that kills someone or one that they dont have yet. Balance is a term used when inventorys are inadequate. Speaking only for myself, I only have OP weapons. Are we supposed to have and want only mediocre gear? Whatd be the point?

Cygnus
09-14-2016, 12:04 AM
Senior GM SoulwalkerYesterday at 20:14

Hello,

Should you wish to resolve this issue without resorting to the legal system, please resubmit your request for assistance and include the reference number listed below.

Thank you for your continued support of Trion Worlds and for playing Defiance. Your reference number for this question is xxxxxx.

Sincerely,

Senior GM Soulwalker

Trion Worlds Inc



As expected, an insincere gesture.


Senior GM SoulwalkerToday at 20:16

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us regarding Defiance.

Once again we are very sorry but we will not be able to refund any currency you may have spent in obtaining this item. As we have explained our stance on this at length, please be aware all further replies regarding this issue will not be responded to.

Your reference number for this ticket is xxxxxx.



I guess ive found a new long fulfilling chase.

Quicksilver1492
09-14-2016, 12:32 AM
I believe that the Purgatory was released as intended. Rashere, I am sure, designed this gun to be that way on purpose. It was special and rare and hard to get. But then he left Trion. It was my absolute favorite det in the entire game, if not favorite weapon overall; able to massacre any afflicted or mutant siege in its way. After all these months, they suddenly said "it's a bug" causing it to function that way and I didn't buy it. I had a suspicion that its use in PvP was what led to its downfall in PvE. They turned it into a run of the mill det and nothing special in the process. If it had been a bug, they probably never would have caught it. And it has been live for too long. Someone must have been complaining. But that is just speculation.

BUT regardless of all that, Trion still owns anything in this game and can change it at their will and there is nothing we can do about it. Just like any other weapon changes they see fit to enact, and have. It wasn't a ninja nerf. They made their actions clear well before it took place.

DEATHBRINGER210
09-14-2016, 12:41 AM
I believe that the Purgatory was released as intended. Rashere, I am sure, designed this gun to be that way on purpose. It was special and rare and hard to get. But then he left Trion. It was my absolute favorite det in the entire game, if not favorite weapon overall; able to massacre any afflicted or mutant siege in its way. After all these months, they suddenly said "it's a bug" causing it to function that way and I didn't buy it. I had a suspicion that its use in PvP was what led to its downfall in PvE. They turned it into a run of the mill det and nothing special in the process. If it had been a bug, they probably never would have caught it. And it has been live for too long. Someone must have been complaining. But that is just speculation.

BUT regardless of all that, Trion still owns anything in this game and can change it at their will and there is nothing we can do about it. Just like any other weapon changes they see fit to enact, and have. It wasn't a ninja nerf. They made their actions clear well before it took place.

these bugs and others make it out of testing . alot as of late

Quicksilver1492
09-14-2016, 12:45 AM
these bugs and others make it out of testing . alot as of late

Yeah but I don't think it was an actual "bug." The Purg was meant to be different. Combining different elements. They might as well nerf the FOP bug weapons, Obliterator, Ventilator, mazu disruptor, and the new NVF Bombardier SMG while they are at it.

DEATHBRINGER210
09-14-2016, 12:50 AM
Yeah but I don't think it was an actual "bug"

thats not want the dev team said.

W84IT
09-14-2016, 01:21 AM
i dont believe purgatory was bugged, it was intended to work like ventilator and obliterator 2 guns in 1,but you know,pvp ... trion shouldn't pull stuff like this and expect people to just let it slide when real money is involved

samemmy
09-14-2016, 01:43 AM
No they didnt. But they did market purgatory as one gun, then after a lot of players spent tons of money on it, replaced it with another different version. Im not happy with the replacement, id like my resourses refunded. Its a reasonable request.

OP is an overused term in my opinion. Its usually used to describe a weapon that kills someone or one that they dont have yet. Balance is a term used when inventorys are inadequate. Speaking only for myself, I only have OP weapons. Are we supposed to have and want only mediocre gear? Whatd be the point?

refund all the stuff we spent on the purgatory !!!

Bentu
09-14-2016, 01:47 AM
Trion may well own all content and are free to change and update as they see fit but they must have a code of practice of sorts where it says they have to comply with some sort of legislation over there.

I for one hopes that Cygnus follows this up with whoever will listen.

There comes a time when every good man etc etc.

Cygnus
09-14-2016, 07:35 AM
Thank you to those who read and agree. If more felt the same we could change this game. Unfortunately most have a defeatist attitude and give up. that was the intent of CS having me post here. If there was enough support they may change their stance.

The craziest thing about this is it has a simple solution, but CS absolutely 100% wont even consider making one person whole after purgatory fiascos. If the end result is to drive your customer base away, that will do it. The unintended consequence for me, ill save a lot of money. Sad note, I have one of the nicest inventories on my server.

one thirtyfour
09-14-2016, 08:19 AM
I feel that if they are going to revamp a gun, then they should make it MK-I and MK-2, MK-I (as in pre patched) keep it as is, as advertised, in its original factory version. If Trion must reduce its effectiveness, then that's now the MK-2 version. The value will remain in the MK-I version and everyone who originally had it should be happy. I for one am no longer happy with the new Purgatory, I'm not mad, wont quit the game, lets just say disappointed; as I made decisions once I looted it, I sold my T6 DC-8 on the exchange (please bring the exchange back!!) as I didn't know three months ago that Trion would change it. :(

thumb
09-14-2016, 10:02 AM
I fully agree with this post, and I'm glad a more eloquent person has decided to take on this cause

DEATHBRINGER210
09-14-2016, 11:00 AM
if they hand out refunds for this . i want a refund for my zagger.

Destromathe
09-14-2016, 11:25 AM
Hi All,

I would like to take the time to address this issue one final time, as it has been discussed many times in many different threads. We will not be providing refunds for players who currently have a Purgatory. In its current form, the Purgatory is still the highest DPS detonator in the game, and still holds merit as a very powerful weapon.

I would also like to take this time to give some perspective regarding how this bug influenced the power level of Purgatory. When designed, the spawned projectiles were assigned damage based on the fact that it had no damage on the initial explosion. This made it so that the unintended initial explosion skyrocketed the DPS of the weapon. In fact, the DPS of the original Purgatory, was 92% higher than any other weapon in the game. Not just detonators, ANY weapon. I regret that it took so long to notice this issue, but understand that this is a weapon that needed to be brought closer in line with other weapons in the game. That is simply the way balance works. The only options were to remove the initial explosion, or massively reduce the damage of the spawned explosions.

I ask that players keep an open mind, and use the Purgatory in its new form. You will notice that it no longer goes through enemies, which is a huge improvement, and that the damage is still very much intact. We apologize to anyone who feels frustrated by these changes, and we make every attempt possible to avoid making these kinds of changes. But in the end, this is an MMO, and must be treated as such when it comes to balance. We hope that this does not hurt your enjoyment of Defiance, and we will keep striving to eliminate difficulties such as this one. Thanks everyone.

Johnny Stranger
09-14-2016, 12:26 PM
well, if I get another one, it too will be traded ....can you at least allow it to get critical hits once in a while ? the clusters fall and explode so slow the enemies are already moved... :(

Mrdr
09-14-2016, 03:12 PM
Hi All,

I would like to take the time to address this issue one final time, as it has been discussed many times in many different threads. We will not be providing refunds for players who currently have a Purgatory. In its current form, the Purgatory is still the highest DPS detonator in the game, and still holds merit as a very powerful weapon.

I would also like to take this time to give some perspective regarding how this bug influenced the power level of Purgatory. When designed, the spawned projectiles were assigned damage based on the fact that it had no damage on the initial explosion. This made it so that the unintended initial explosion skyrocketed the DPS of the weapon. In fact, the DPS of the original Purgatory, was 92% higher than any other weapon in the game. Not just detonators, ANY weapon. I regret that it took so long to notice this issue, but understand that this is a weapon that needed to be brought closer in line with other weapons in the game. That is simply the way balance works. The only options were to remove the initial explosion, or massively reduce the damage of the spawned explosions.

I ask that players keep an open mind, and use the Purgatory in its new form. You will notice that it no longer goes through enemies, which is a huge improvement, and that the damage is still very much intact. We apologize to anyone who feels frustrated by these changes, and we make every attempt possible to avoid making these kinds of changes. But in the end, this is an MMO, and must be treated as such when it comes to balance. We hope that this does not hurt your enjoyment of Defiance, and we will keep striving to eliminate difficulties such as this one. Thanks everyone.

Would you be saying the same thing if you sunk real money, tons of hours, 25M scrip, and 3k arkforge as a player into a gun that has been in game for months without anyone from Trion saying it was bugged even though people have been raving about them forever now? And then Trion changes the gun entirely apart from skin and then tells you it's just too damn bad but t hey it's an MMO after all?

Your answer (or even lack of) will speak volumes...

Ryan Anthony
09-14-2016, 07:25 PM
False advertising would be if the Purgatory was intended to do what it had done pre-patch, if the developers had said as much, and if the weapon AS ADVERTISED guaranteed that would be done.

None of these things apply. Therefore, it is not false advertising. OP, all you're doing is throwing a temper tantrum and I highly doubt either of the agencies you've cited will do anything.

I could be wrong too, but I think part of the terms of service says something about Trion having the final and exclusive rights to update their own games.

Crack
09-14-2016, 08:47 PM
False advertising would be if the Purgatory was intended to do what it had done pre-patch, if the developers had said as much, and if the weapon AS ADVERTISED guaranteed that would be done.

None of these things apply. Therefore, it is not false advertising. OP, all you're doing is throwing a temper tantrum and I highly doubt either of the agencies you've cited will do anything.

I could be wrong too, but I think part of the terms of service says something about Trion having the final and exclusive rights to update their own games.

You are totally missing the point with "Advertised". When an item hits the live servers, its been tested in-house as well as PTS. Once it hits live we assume the item is what it is and advertises itself as a desired item. Allowing gear to hit live in a broken state and not fixing the issue until many months later is on Trion.

We've went through this before with the Zagger. A developer created the Zagger not realizing that with the perfect rolls the gun became a zero reload. It advertised itself therefor it became the most wanted gun in game. That management core realized that fixing it would hurt everyone who invested time and money into getting one and agreed to leave it as it was. Our current mgnt core at Trion reversed that decision and "fixed" the Zagger as well as killing several perks.

So the real question that needs to be asked is this; Would you put the time and effort into buying, building, forging the Purgatory in its current "fixed" state or is this now just another weapon sitting near your never-used Zaggers?

Now Im not saying the Purgatory and Zagger shouldnt have been fixed, but it would have been nice to get reparations rather than "Sorry, it was broke and we fixed it...no take backs."

Take some responsibility...throw some "Oops, our bad" stuff our way. :rolleyes:

Cygnus
09-14-2016, 09:19 PM
I could be wrong too, but I think part of the terms of service says something about Trion having the final and exclusive rights to update their own games.

Yes the TOS does say they can basically do what they want. But other states and countries have their own regulations. Digital content boundaries for companies and consumers are still being explored. If you live in different parts of the world you may have different rights.


Op, all you're doing is throwing a temper tantrum and I highly doubt either of the agencies you've cited will do anything.

yes writing letters and filing complaints about a video game may seem silly to some, but its really about money. Thats why we have consumer protection agencies. They protect consumers from getting ripped off.

This being said, im standing up for me, and you. if you dont say anything, or do anything, dont expect anything to happen. Right? I think ive opened up some players eyes and freed others minds.


False advertising would be if the Purgatory was intended to do what it had done pre-patch, if the developers had said as much, and if the weapon AS ADVERTISED guaranteed that would be done.

Im not sure anyone claimed false advertising. The term I used was faulty digital content, because it wasnt operating as advertised thats why they fixed it. It means they sold a broken gun. That was the basis of my argument. And that sir is true!!

Unfortunately this has reached its sad end. The results being, I still have a purgatory. I am forced to eat it. But I have made a suggestion for if this happens in the future.

here is why I think the circumstances for the purgatory were significantly different from bug fixes in the past. the purgatory bug affected the community more than any other previous bug fix, in this stage of the game developers have added roll change options, another rarity, and mastery teir that all cost a significant amount of arkforge which is usually purchased, because you cant earn enough. Add to that, the length of time it was in game, also gave more people time to aquire, upgrade, etc. Put it all together and youve got lots of customers (spending money buying arkforge) heavily invested in a weapon with real money!

Under circumstances like these, we should be given the option to submit a ticket to exchange the weapon for a set amount of currency based on the card value of the weapon. this would be an exchange, not compensation. Its not a gift, one or the other.( Do you take the purgatory or take the currency box? ) See its another gamble. The higher ups should love it. The currency box should reflect the currencies necesary to accomplish the item ( if its been upgraded there should be arkforge in the currency box) Maybe we can have that option in the future if something similar happens again. If you agree with this please comment.


I am resuming my gameplay. I am done seeking a refund for the purgatory. I pushed as hard as I could. I hope I made a differnce so in the future we have choices.

Thank you for commenting,
Thank you for your support,
Cygnus

Johnny Stranger
09-15-2016, 02:12 AM
Rarnok has every gun in his inventory (as per watching him scroll through during livestreams , believe they are all supreme too ) , as well as all devs I would assume...I just can't believe this PURGATORY problem wasn't found sooner....I can see how the zagger took a while because of the rng rolls etc...where having multiple reload rolls enabled you to never reload....this I can understand would take some time ...someone would have had to rng several reload rolls to make it happen ...than when many got these unicorns ,it became a problem (for pvp ...of course )...I just don't understand why the guns can't be left as rolled out in live, and if pvp is the problem , just strip all rigs , dlc ego perks, and all guns and you get a loadout of generic guns to choose from for your pvp playstyle....I imagine it can't be much fun killing the same people over and over with high quality gear etc...versus their subpar gear/ego perks etc...wouldn't be for me...
OR , just write a game script not allowing these guns into pvp ..they could have a pvp red lock .. js'ing ... :)

Mr B
09-15-2016, 03:08 AM
This whole thread is ridiculous.
Any player who is AT LEAST a bit familiar with the game would have seen instantly that the purgatory was op as ****.
And op as **** stuff gets patched.
I liked the prepatch purg, so i oj'd it, remastered it, put a decent amount of af into it and t5'd it.
BUT i knew it had to be patched.
C'mon, asking for a refund, do you even hear how childish that sound?

Edit: And it's still a very good detonator, so you didn't lose anything.

Mrdr
09-15-2016, 03:24 AM
This whole thread is ridiculous.
Any player who is AT LEAST a bit familiar with the game would have seen instantly that the purgatory was op as ****.
And op as **** stuff gets patched.
I liked the prepatch purg, so i oj'd it, remastered it, put a decent amount of af into it and t5'd it.
BUT i knew it had to be patched.
C'mon, asking for a refund, do you even hear how childish that sound?

Would it be the same story if you went to a restaurant, ordered and received your perfect steak, you put all the right amounts of salt and pepper, paid for it, started eating it, then the waiter comes over, replaces your steak and says "Oops, you weren't meant to get this prime cut of ribeye, here's your well done Salisbury steak instead. Thank you for paying for the steak, we won't hear any complaints." and then walks away? Hell no, you wouldn't take that even if you hadn't already paid for it either.

Mr B
09-15-2016, 03:29 AM
Would it be the same story if you went to a restaurant, ordered and received your perfect steak, you put all the right amounts of salt and pepper, paid for it, started eating it, then the waiter comes over, replaces your steak and says "Oops, you weren't meant to get this prime cut of ribeye, here's your well done Salisbury steak instead. Thank you for paying for the steak, we won't hear any complaints." and then walks away? Hell no, you wouldn't take that even if you hadn't already paid for it either.

Except we don't pay for the purg, it's a free drop in game.Upgrading it is YOUR CHOICE.
And this argument is stupid anyway.

Noskillz
09-15-2016, 04:18 AM
Just my 2 cent. This is an MMO game and like ALOT of MMO's things like that happen all the time. now for the specific issue u got an item called Purgatory that was OP from day one u got it in your hands (as a loot drop or a trade , u didnt pay for it real money), So after u got this item u had the choice to invent in it (even if u knew it was broken as hell) and upgrade it paying real money.

So now after all this time u ask for a refund couse the fixed a weapon that was doing 92% more DMG than ANY weapon in the game.... and u expect a re fund ? .... live with it... u made a bach choice from day 1 u got this item , what did u expect ? that they would NEVER nerf it ? and you would one shot everything couse u are THAT good ? ....


Now... on the other hand what i DIDNT not like if that happened ofc, is that the Dev's should have said from like months ago that this weapon is broken and will be fixed in the future (i dont know if they said it )

If that was the case then the fault is on them and they should refund it. if not its not their fault.

Thats my personal opinion thats all.

Bentu
09-15-2016, 04:36 AM
As said before elsewhere in future I'm sticking to "my" guns and vowing never to buy arkforge again.

Yes I ojd a zagger and upgraded a piper in the past but this was the first time I'd bought arkforge from the store.

You don't make it any easier to like this game Trion and in fact you seem to be doing your damndest to make us ridicule it.

PithHelmetIrath
09-15-2016, 05:03 AM
You don't make it any easier to like this game Trion and in fact you seem to be doing your damndest to make us ridicule it.

Amen.

..........

Ryan Anthony
09-15-2016, 05:59 AM
This is seriously childish as hell.

Did y'all miss the part in the TOS where it states A) they have the right to update their game and B) you use it knowing updates are going to happen?

WhiteStrike
09-15-2016, 06:54 AM
This is seriously childish as hell.

Did y'all miss the part in the TOS where it states A) they have the right to update their game and B) you use it knowing updates are going to happen?
Pretty much this, although it's not a "childish" complaint.
For as much as it sucks for Purgatory owners, the Terms of Service clearly state that they have the right to alter their digital content at will.

Cygnus
09-15-2016, 07:58 AM
This may help some to understand better. I copy n pasted a section of TOS.

26. Dispute Resolution and Governing Law

F.*Governing Law. Except as expressly stated otherwise, this Agreement shall be governed by, and will be construed under, the laws of the United States of America and the law of the State of CA, without regard to choice of law principles. The application of the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods is expressly excluded. For our customers who access the Service from Canada, Latin America, Mexico, South America, the Caribbean, Australia or New Zealand, other laws may apply if you choose not to agree to arbitrate as set forth above, and in such an event, shall affect this Agreement only to the extent required by such jurisdiction. In such a case, this Agreement shall be interpreted to give maximum effect to the terms and conditions hereof. If you access the Service from New Zealand, and are a resident of New Zealand, The New Zealand Consumer Guarantees Act of 1993 (“Act”) may apply to the Game and/or the Service as supplied by Trion to you. If the Act applies, then notwithstanding any other provision in this Agreement, you may have rights or remedies as set out in the Act which may apply in addition to, or, to the extent that they are inconsistent, instead of, the rights or remedies set out in this Agreement. Those who choose to access the Service from locations outside of the United States, Canada, Latin America, Mexico, South America, the Caribbean, Australia or New Zealand do so on their own initiative contrary to the terms of this Agreement, and are responsible for compliance with local laws if and to the extent local laws are applicable. Should a court of competent jurisdiction determine that other laws apply, the Agreements shall be enforced to the fullest extent permitted by the laws of the applicable jurisdiction and be interpreted to give maximum effect to the terms and conditions hereof.


in some parts of the world you have differnt rights but for most of us we are bound by california law.

DEATHBRINGER210
09-15-2016, 08:35 AM
trion also has the right to refuse service

W84IT
09-15-2016, 10:46 AM
Would it be the same story if you went to a restaurant, ordered and received your perfect steak, you put all the right amounts of salt and pepper, paid for it, started eating it, then the waiter comes over, replaces your steak and says "Oops, you weren't meant to get this prime cut of ribeye, here's your well done Salisbury steak instead. Thank you for paying for the steak, we won't hear any complaints." and then walks away? Hell no, you wouldn't take that even if you hadn't already paid for it either.

the waiter would lose a finger or two...and the restaurant a client

passe
09-15-2016, 04:01 PM
Read the terms. Trion says very clearly that they hold right to any changes for the game and the content. There is nothing you guys can do about it. Let the butthurt flow through you and keep spamming them BMG's

Johnny Gatt
09-15-2016, 04:28 PM
Wtb purple purgatory... cheap.

Johnny Gatt
09-15-2016, 04:32 PM
Would it be the same story if you went to a restaurant, ordered and received your perfect steak, you put all the right amounts of salt and pepper, paid for it, started eating it, then the waiter comes over, replaces your steak and says "Oops, you weren't meant to get this prime cut of ribeye, here's your well done Salisbury steak instead. Thank you for paying for the steak, we won't hear any complaints." and then walks away? Hell no, you wouldn't take that even if you hadn't already paid for it either.

Before you entered the restaurant you would have had to agree to the restaurants terms of service which would have told you that they reserved the right to modify the steak at any time.

Mrdr
09-15-2016, 05:05 PM
Before you entered the restaurant you would have had to agree to the restaurants terms of service which would have told you that they reserved the right to modify the steak at any time.

Perhaps, but that doesn't nullify the argument (or his or anyone else's feelings on the matter).

Look I haven't been affected by this at all since I have never used nor even seen a purgatory. It's the principle of the matter. Agreeing to TOS doesn't make the practice OK, and as long as everyone swallows this type of crap they will continue to feed it to us. Just because you agreed to the TOS doesn't mean you can't speak your mind on something that would be considered intolerable in nearly any other customer service situation (which is why I posted the analogy).

It's not just this one thing but rather a culmination of crap that we continually swallow and seemingly beg for more...like stability, etc. that shouldn't have to be agreed to, but rather is implied when you purchase the game. Yes yes it's free to play, but not for those of us who purchased it.

Further, were are regularly asked for feedback, and this just that...feedback about how they totally dropped the ball on this entire situation. Common sense and good business sense would say that something should be done by Trion to encourage retention of its customers.

In Cygnus' case, he wasn't asking for his cake and the ability to eat it too. He just wanted to be made whole on the things he personally lost due to Trion changing the gun completely. He even said that he wanted the gun gone and his scrip and forge replaced. I don't think he was asking for much...it's just bits and bytes to Trion but it was actual dollars and cents to Cygnus due to his investment in forge on a weapon he didn't know was glitched (people were using them for months without any announcement of it being glitched) that he otherwise would not have invested were the gun in its current state at the time.

He wasn't even asking for the real dollar value of bits back...just what he purchased with those bits...forge. That's not an unreasonable request for anyone to make. Now, if he demanded all that stuff back and still wanted to keep the gun then yeah...no way.

So I guess all in all, I'm supporting Cygnus on this because he represents us all here. Trion is the only one with the power to do anything...even fix their game, which they choose not to do, and then ask for real world currency with zero major upgrades or fixes in return. And what happens? "We're looking into it...it's our highest priority...give us suggestions on inventory fixes...we really do care, believe me...hey! Bit store stuff...did you see the bit store stuff? Buy bits! No we're still looking into it, it's our highest priority...submit a ticket with CS...I know CS told you to ask on the forums but you have to talk to CS" etc.

Someone's got to speak up...it happened to be Cygnus.

Lamar Kendrick
09-15-2016, 10:46 PM
zagger got nerfed
purgatory sort of got nerfed
ps syn got nerfed
ce cyn got nerfed

have people forgot about the spanner trapper nerf? :)

back then when you use it on someone they got the bio effect for seconds now you're required to hold the spanner for the effect until someone dies NPC or a player

HyDrOpOnIc1987
09-15-2016, 11:18 PM
Wtf? Thats pretty ********. Ive also had problems in the past with trions customer service. I personally bought $40 in bits and never got them. I had to wait a week and a half for first response. When i did get one, they just plainly said there was no record of my purchase therefore no refund will be issued. After i responded i got another msg back roughly stating the exact same thing almost word for word. How does this help anyone? I eventually got a random msg about 4 days after the last msg saying i got the refund but only after i contacted Microsoft and paypal for resolution. They honestly need work on making their CS staff more personable and reasonable. I totally agree that 9 times out of 10 they tend to escalate the situation instead of being unhelpful and sometimes just plain rude. Its called Customer Service for a reason. I hope u get back ur scrip n forge in full but anything is better than nothing so maybe theyll come to their senses and do ANYtHING rather than the nothing they tend to do. Isnt Customer Service supposed to act as a resolution team? Js

KptBomba
09-16-2016, 01:16 AM
just add damage to main explision same (or litte lower ~75%) like cluster and it will be perfect
now clusters before explode take long time and dont do damage to fast moving moobs
and clusters need to detonate while hit moob not only ground...

Infinity Eagle
09-16-2016, 01:25 AM
Perhaps, but that doesn't nullify the argument (or his or anyone else's feelings on the matter).

Look I haven't been affected by this at all since I have never used nor even seen a purgatory. It's the principle of the matter. Agreeing to TOS doesn't make the practice OK, and as long as everyone swallows this type of crap they will continue to feed it to us. Just because you agreed to the TOS doesn't mean you can't speak your mind on something that would be considered intolerable in nearly any other customer service situation (which is why I posted the analogy).

It's not just this one thing but rather a culmination of crap that we continually swallow and seemingly beg for more...like stability, etc. that shouldn't have to be agreed to, but rather is implied when you purchase the game. Yes yes it's free to play, but not for those of us who purchased it.

Further, were are regularly asked for feedback, and this just that...feedback about how they totally dropped the ball on this entire situation. Common sense and good business sense would say that something should be done by Trion to encourage retention of its customers.

In Cygnus' case, he wasn't asking for his cake and the ability to eat it too. He just wanted to be made whole on the things he personally lost due to Trion changing the gun completely. He even said that he wanted the gun gone and his scrip and forge replaced. I don't think he was asking for much...it's just bits and bytes to Trion but it was actual dollars and cents to Cygnus due to his investment in forge on a weapon he didn't know was glitched (people were using them for months without any announcement of it being glitched) that he otherwise would not have invested were the gun in its current state at the time.

He wasn't even asking for the real dollar value of bits back...just what he purchased with those bits...forge. That's not an unreasonable request for anyone to make. Now, if he demanded all that stuff back and still wanted to keep the gun then yeah...no way.

So I guess all in all, I'm supporting Cygnus on this because he represents us all here. Trion is the only one with the power to do anything...even fix their game, which they choose not to do, and then ask for real world currency with zero major upgrades or fixes in return. And what happens? "We're looking into it...it's our highest priority...give us suggestions on inventory fixes...we really do care, believe me...hey! Bit store stuff...did you see the bit store stuff? Buy bits! No we're still looking into it, it's our highest priority...submit a ticket with CS...I know CS told you to ask on the forums but you have to talk to CS" etc.

Someone's got to speak up...it happened to be Cygnus.

I agree, but the Common sense and good business sense got nerfed a long time ago.

Johnny Stranger
09-16-2016, 02:29 AM
Perhaps, but that doesn't nullify the argument (or his or anyone else's feelings on the matter).

Look I haven't been affected by this at all since I have never used nor even seen a purgatory. It's the principle of the matter. Agreeing to TOS doesn't make the practice OK, and as long as everyone swallows this type of crap they will continue to feed it to us. Just because you agreed to the TOS doesn't mean you can't speak your mind on something that would be considered intolerable in nearly any other customer service situation (which is why I posted the analogy).

It's not just this one thing but rather a culmination of crap that we continually swallow and seemingly beg for more...like stability, etc. that shouldn't have to be agreed to, but rather is implied when you purchase the game. Yes yes it's free to play, but not for those of us who purchased it.

Further, were are regularly asked for feedback, and this just that...feedback about how they totally dropped the ball on this entire situation. Common sense and good business sense would say that something should be done by Trion to encourage retention of its customers.

In Cygnus' case, he wasn't asking for his cake and the ability to eat it too. He just wanted to be made whole on the things he personally lost due to Trion changing the gun completely. He even said that he wanted the gun gone and his scrip and forge replaced. I don't think he was asking for much...it's just bits and bytes to Trion but it was actual dollars and cents to Cygnus due to his investment in forge on a weapon he didn't know was glitched (people were using them for months without any announcement of it being glitched) that he otherwise would not have invested were the gun in its current state at the time.

He wasn't even asking for the real dollar value of bits back...just what he purchased with those bits...forge. That's not an unreasonable request for anyone to make. Now, if he demanded all that stuff back and still wanted to keep the gun then yeah...no way.

So I guess all in all, I'm supporting Cygnus on this because he represents us all here. Trion is the only one with the power to do anything...even fix their game, which they choose not to do, and then ask for real world currency with zero major upgrades or fixes in return. And what happens? "We're looking into it...it's our highest priority...give us suggestions on inventory fixes...we really do care, believe me...hey! Bit store stuff...did you see the bit store stuff? Buy bits! No we're still looking into it, it's our highest priority...submit a ticket with CS...I know CS told you to ask on the forums but you have to talk to CS" etc.

Someone's got to speak up...it happened to be Cygnus.

As much as I agree with all this , I can't help but wonder, if Trion opened this door, the tidal wave would be too immense ...First , how do you quantify how much resources were spent to improve/enhance the Purgatory...not just for Cygnus, but for all of us ...They cannot go through millions of logs to decipher who/what/where/when bought/used af/real money to enhance the gun ..imho ...Do I like the change ? HELL NO !!! before I used to see fire , now I don't ,before it use to kill things, now not as much, before I use to see yellow crit bar, now I don't . Was it op before, hell I don't know, I just shoot the freaking gun ,if it kills enemies, I'm happy ,if it doesn't I vend/sell/trade it , simple as that...I don't get caught up in numbers etc ...I use real in game signs to tell me how good my gun with my set up is ...people tell me it's still the highest dps det/gun whatever in game...in my experience , it's a pos now , at least the way I play...took me a week to figure out how to fire it without killing myself half the time lol , finally learned , poof, not the same gun ...the fact that it wasn't a nerf , that it was a design flaw, after testing etc...tells me someone goofed up ...there is no way in hell I can believe this wasn't noticed ? months ago ..I can totally understand how some syns/guns with the right gear/perks etc can become overpowered etc and need a nerf/fix later , as it may take some time for people to find and utilize and reroll guns etc...that I understand , the Purgatory not working as intended is a real hard pill to swallow , given the longevity it was in game with this unINTENDED gun mechanism flaw...But after all this is said and done, I see no easy way to derive any sort of compensation so i'll leave it at that....maybe give us all a title "PURGED" :)

PithHelmetIrath
09-16-2016, 06:52 AM
I agree, but the Common sense and good business sense got nerfed a long time ago.

http://i.imgur.com/3eSJXbG.gif

Hexthat
09-16-2016, 06:59 AM
The thread OP obviously did not read the End User Agreement. You do not own your account, nothing on your toon is yours.

The moment you spend money on bits, the money becomes trion's.... Refunds are not legal.

Kyosji
09-16-2016, 08:00 AM
You could always do a charge back and risk your account being locked if it bothers you so much.

Kyosji
09-16-2016, 08:43 AM
In all honesty, the change should have gone into effect, because grenades.

rita mortis
09-16-2016, 09:07 AM
....I can see how the zagger took a while because of the rng rolls etc...where having multiple reload rolls enabled you to never reload....this I can understand would take some time ...someone would have had to rng several reload rolls to make it happen ... :)


The only rolls a zagger could get were reload rolls and purple ego on reload every one had fixed rolls and was nefed and swept under the carpet just as this will be

Cygnus
09-16-2016, 10:00 AM
As much as I agree with all this , I can't help but wonder, if Trion opened this door, the tidal wave would be too immense ...First , how do you quantify how much resources were spent to improve/enhance the Purgatory...not just for Cygnus, but for all of us ...They cannot go through millions of logs to decipher who/what/where/when bought/used af/real money to enhance the gun ..imho ...Do I like the change ?

Easy, each weapon has a card value. No one would be completely compensated ofcourse, and it would benefit trion for sure. They would assign a value for rolls if they were changed and a value for rarity teir. They certainly would not compensate every player for every action.

hypothetically, lets say the card value plus, a rarity % arkforge and a modification % arkforge = your currency box. Players would have 15-30 days to try the replacement and exchange for the currecy box, after days the exchange is not offered.Its not a refund , more an exchange. But at least its a choice. You wouldnt have to try to sell in zone and it wouldnt be wasting away in your inventory taking up space reminding you of what you lost.

xXxDSMer
09-16-2016, 02:28 PM
The best anyone could do (playerwise) is try to get some initial explosion damage back in the form of taking the current total weapon damage and dividing that by 4, then change the card to reflect the correct card damage with a x4. That would get the crash boomer part of the feel of the weapon back while keeping the damage in line with the dev's target.

Bloodbath82
09-18-2016, 01:29 AM
All of this nerfing could very easily be prevented by PROPER TESTING. Or heres another idea........stop me if youve heard of these.......GMs that play in game so issues like this can be documented on day 1 . I have played alot of mmos and this one has the worst CS. Copy and paste responses are not helping anyone and do nothing but foster further hostility. I think you may want to try some other mmos and perhaps get your team some training in their respective fields.......EXPOS STILL PHASING

Sevrin
09-18-2016, 09:53 AM
Hi All,

I would like to take the time to address this issue one final time, as it has been discussed many times in many different threads. We will not be providing refunds for players who currently have a Purgatory. In its current form, the Purgatory is still the highest DPS detonator in the game, and still holds merit as a very powerful weapon.

I would also like to take this time to give some perspective regarding how this bug influenced the power level of Purgatory. When designed, the spawned projectiles were assigned damage based on the fact that it had no damage on the initial explosion. This made it so that the unintended initial explosion skyrocketed the DPS of the weapon. In fact, the DPS of the original Purgatory, was 92% higher than any other weapon in the game. Not just detonators, ANY weapon. I regret that it took so long to notice this issue, but understand that this is a weapon that needed to be brought closer in line with other weapons in the game. That is simply the way balance works. The only options were to remove the initial explosion, or massively reduce the damage of the spawned explosions.

I ask that players keep an open mind, and use the Purgatory in its new form. You will notice that it no longer goes through enemies, which is a huge improvement, and that the damage is still very much intact. We apologize to anyone who feels frustrated by these changes, and we make every attempt possible to avoid making these kinds of changes. But in the end, this is an MMO, and must be treated as such when it comes to balance. We hope that this does not hurt your enjoyment of Defiance, and we will keep striving to eliminate difficulties such as this one. Thanks everyone.

I appreciate that you took the time to respond to this thread.

I have used the NEW Purgatory now extensively -- which is why I have waited until now to respond. Based on my observation (not testing because I have no idea how to determine the DPS of a detonator when the enemies tend to run out of the clusters before they detonate ) I'd say the NEW Purgatory is about 60% as effective as the Purgatory. There are some good uses for the NEW Purgatory and I will keep it in my fire load-out (for now). But there is no doubt that it is not the weapon that it was before the changes and it is nowhere near as useful.

I'd also like to address your balance argument. I was in a War Master the other day with several 6ks. All of the top scorers had the best gear, period. So where's the balance there? MMOs are always about getting the best gear to get the best results. MMOs are not about balance, they are about chasing for the best gear to give you an edge. I know you know this and that is why you put the best gear (think Sentinel rig, Obliterator, Apex among many others) in pay boxes. For a while, the Purgatory was among the best dets., so it was worth chasing (and it was a long and expensive chase). That's the whole point, yes?

I also wonder why you would make these changes several months after the weapon came out. And I don't believe that you suddenly became aware of the properties of this weapon. So I ask, why now? Why change horses in mid-game (I know, a horribly mangled mixed metaphor for a game that doesn't even have horses, but it makes my point). I am hoping that you didn't make these changes based on the feedback of a couple select players (as I am being told was the case). If that is the case, you should have polled the entire player base. Why just listen to those two?

But none of this addresses my main personal issue with these changes. I invested heavily in time and resources to acquire, upgrade to supreme and modify the weapon based on its performance at the time and the fact that in my opinion it was the best det around. I wouldn't have done this based on the performance of the NEW Purgatory.

In short, the performance of the purgatory sucked me into making an investment of time and treasure, which you basically just stole from me (and I know you have the right to do so, but so what). This is no way to treat a customer (and you all know I have been a paying customer for some time now). So yes, I am not a happy camper about this, obviously. That is all.

HyDrOpOnIc1987
09-18-2016, 07:29 PM
Hi. Just to add my view on this as well, just before they changed the Purg, i borrowed my clan mates to try out. I made a decision based on that. It worked well for my purposes. The day before Trion changed it, i went and bought a purple purg and raised it up. The very next day it was deemed relatively worthless for the purposes i bought it. Regardless of TOS it should at least be acknowledged that majority of purgatory owners are unhappy and extremely unsatisfied with the outcome. The game has shown me time after time that the company doesnt truely care about their customers. Copy and paste answers, when u dont get bits that u buy u get told "theres no record of your purchse" even though, in my personal experience, i provided a reference number so Trion could contact Microsoft and verify my payment and billing. There are too many instance where Trion proves their need and greed for our money but wont listen to the feedback that THEY tell us to leave for them. Is this really an effective business model? Piss off your PAYING customers to the point of considering leaving? What about the next game your company tries to release? Think all the PAYING customers that have been shoved to the side and disregarded will pay to play another game? I agree, take a poll and see what WE the paying customers want with/for the weapons created for US. or are those not for us? Its your property, yes, but without players whats it truely worth? And the player base is steadily declining, rather the experienced and likely to PAY players are declining. Just food for thought, if you lose the long time long paying players, what good is the game? (Not meant to be rude or argue, just MY take and experience on this crud aituation)

Bentu
09-18-2016, 08:57 PM
I've removed my card details from Trions site following thier refusal to help me with a payment history issue.

Ea Rapture
09-19-2016, 03:16 AM
I've removed my card details from Trions site following thier refusal to help me with a payment history issue.

Invest in a PS4. It's worth the money. I just bought Dark Souls 2 (w/ DLC) and Bloodborne for $35. Better time investments imo. I still like Defiance, but really, it's such a drag logging on.

I have to force myself to turn on my ps3 and try to enjoy myself. Why should I be reluctant to turn on my system? It makes no sense.

Shouldn't I be happy to log on and chase arkfalls? Well... I'm not. So I dont. Instead, I Brandish my sword and charge headlong into Dark Souls invasions.

I was once ecstatic to come home and play Defiance. It was religious and every day was exciting.

Excuse the ramble.

Chonchan
09-19-2016, 06:21 AM
Cygnus. I think your request is more than reasonable. I myself also put money into the purgatory. The first time I had ever spent real monies on the game ever. The main problem with this situation is that the purgatory remained "broken" for almost 6 months before Trion did anything about it. Why do you think they let the purple rarity weapon stay "broken" for so long? To suck every penny they could from us before "fixing" it. In my opinion that's just wrong no matter how you slice it. I submitted a ticket to get my arkforge back the day the purgatory was nerfed only to get the sorry about your luck reply. The reason I submitted the ticket was because Trion made right on the patron passes that were purchased during the exchange. It's wrong to mislead people. Bottom line. Again 6 months the weapon remained broken? With plenty of opportunities to patch the weapon in that time.

Bentu
09-19-2016, 06:41 AM
Invest in a PS4. It's worth the money. I just bought Dark Souls 2 (w/ DLC) and Bloodborne for $35. Better time investments imo. I still like Defiance, but really, it's such a drag logging on.

I have to force myself to turn on my ps3 and try to enjoy myself. Why should I be reluctant to turn on my system? It makes no sense.

Shouldn't I be happy to log on and chase arkfalls? Well... I'm not. So I dont. Instead, I Brandish my sword and charge headlong into Dark Souls invasions.

I was once ecstatic to come home and play Defiance. It was religious and every day was exciting.

Excuse the ramble.










I have a xbox one which I've been playing Destiny on for the last couple of days trying to straighten things up ready for Rise of Iron which is out tomorrow.
So it's going to be interesting to see which game wins, u do want the Saw and axe so defiance may win out for the first week of this event we'll just have to see how this karma bar works.

Funny enough Destiny has had the same type of thing for over a year now.
You use a consumerable called a 3of coin which increases your chance of getting an oj drop from a boss.

The idea of the ps4 is attractive though as I'd still like to play with you guys I've met from the ps3 on other games.
Time will tell.

Infinity Eagle
10-02-2016, 05:57 AM
They nerfed the purgatory to near uselessness, and will not do anything about the bmg crap. I guess they like the lazy player weapon too much. How hard is it to just tape the button down and go afk?
Just another reason I will never spend anymore money on this game.
And customer service is a joke.

Just my rant for the day.

Alahali
10-02-2016, 12:03 PM
It is very significant when you make the comparison of previous records to patch (I'm talking about expo), before it was a very effective weapon.
Now, to confront and damage the enemy you must make a paraphernalia of lights and rumbling, to end up being hated by the other players.
You severely affected the players, especially because never read anyone to make any complaint about the operation of Purgatory.

Ryu Soba JP
10-03-2016, 01:59 AM
Hmm, I understand everyone's frustrations but this thread just seems... silly. Trion reserves the right to make changes to their game. You agree to that every day you log in. The weapon is free. You CHOSE to use in game currency. I never understood why anyone would spend so much scrip on a weapon that's free for everyone. Even Arkforge is free. You CHOSE to spend real money. It seems Trion adjusted a weapon that needed balancing. The likely reason would be that no one really had a Purgatory so the balancing issue slipped through the cracks. Once everyone started buzzing about it I'm sure the Devs thought "why is everyone buzzing about this det?" then "BOOM!" changes made. Zagger gave a huge unfair advantage to those who abused it. That change was needed. Just my opinion.

Also, to the people suggesting others from other countries to check their "laws" to see if anything can be done. (This is how I read your response) Make sure you tell them to check with Sony about making an out of region account and hope they don't get banned. This game has a huge amount of players on NA server from other counties who's accounts are against Sony user agreement.

Cygnus
10-03-2016, 09:24 AM
To ryu, trion reserves the right to change anything. Correct. They also encourage players to convert real cash into ingame currencies to complete weapons n gear quiker. In this situation the item had been in game for a long time. A change like this makes players afraid to invest in gear period! It says, dont like, invest, or get attached to an item cause we will wreck it. If we cant build gear with confidence, the players who spend real money will hesitate or stop upgrading all together. I dont think trion wants that. Players shouldnt be afraid to personalize gear for fear it will change. players who dont invest real money think we should expect this, or dont understand why we spent any money on a game period. This game is based on loot and upgrading loot. If we are to continue to spend real money we need confidence that it wont be for nothing. As the purgatory sits now, no one wants it, players that have them cant sell them for anything other than a huge loss. The fix was a complete remake. It was not a simple adjustment in values as most who never had one assume. I dont think anyone can really speak on this, unless you have one and know how it felt. So I can understand how you cant understand.

To clarify no legal advise was given, I only represent myself. Advising others to get educated or informed of their rights is simply a way for everyone to have a better gaming experience and entirely a individuals decision.This post was recommended by customer service in hopes a dev would see it.

Lastly, my situation has been resolved. Thats why I havent posted any further on this matter.

D34d10ck
10-10-2016, 09:46 AM
I will never play another trion game. I will probably play this game out as I have invested many hours playing it but trion will go the way of neocron which was a game I beta tested a few years ago. We played the game and helped the company work out the flaws until it was fun to play then the devs deleted our characters before going live, gave us no free copy of the game or anything else to compensate us for putting up with their glitchy game and helping them make it playable. Needless to say the game had no players because we told our friends of our crappy experience. Long story short trion sucks