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View Full Version : Elephant in Room: Weighted JPs



Triggered
12-26-2016, 08:04 AM
This is a thing. I run 7 toons on PC-NA. So far out of 40 jps dropped 4 have been either Dasher, Comet, or Blitzen. That is a 10% chance to get a desirable JP. Before the patron providing karma thing I would bet that JPs were weighted equally. I get why this is done as it promotes some type of economy having rare, desirable weapons but don't you think there is a better system the game could implement? This is sort of a vent but more importantly maybe out of this comes a constructive discussion on how to better this for players forking over money for a patron pass monthly.

Ronin9572
12-26-2016, 10:00 AM
It's not just JP's, even the non JP versions as well. I'd say a 1/3 or more of my drops this event have been the plasma blaster, and half those OJ's are nanoless

Triggered
12-26-2016, 11:29 AM
Update: Edited post with number of jp drops so far from this event. Either my post was altered or I must have thought I typed something when I didn't...

Lake Superior
12-26-2016, 12:55 PM
It's simple: Make sure ALL Jackpots are desirable. If they are gimped in some way, they should be fixed OR created with better attention to the details (Like Donner. Which is a hard hitter; but any low fire-rate weapon that has a Nano is going to immediately have a lower "Nano Application" chance than a high fire-rate weapon (more hits; more Nano application rolls). Which is stupid imo. - The lower the fire rate; the higher the inherent Nano application chance of that weapon should be. Donner has no AOE sludge effect; so it is immediately made less desirable for Expos (for instance)).
I hear you on the JP drop chances being somehow always weighted; But those of us that can't play as much because we have lives (a little sarcasm there) are placed at an even worse advantage.
And don't even get me started on Mod drop ratios.
I know that many have had "alternate luck" ; but in the course of a LOT of Arkfalls/Come All Ye's, I have had THREE ERR's drop to me. One Green, and two Blues. Bloody Hell.
PS. I'll consider myself lucky somewhat on JP drops though: 3 total. Donner, Dancer, and Vixen.

Bentu
12-26-2016, 07:18 PM
If the weighted jp weapons were worth having there'd be no problem but as soon as they become on par with brs or other sought after weapons all hell breaks lose.

It's now got to the point where I don't give a monkeys about them as I know I won't be getting the ones I want and no one wants the ones that I get.
So why waste my time.

Just hope that Nuclear Winter is a break from the norm as I'm needing a reason to play at the moment.

Lycan Nightshade
12-26-2016, 11:13 PM
Yeah the loot table just sucks assphault

Ronin9572
12-26-2016, 11:27 PM
The new trend is to have weapons that have never been jackpots before. While I understand this, it don't mean everyone wants these. This is another reason the non stop events are in a way dragging the game down.

Fisherman Joe
12-27-2016, 03:51 AM
To me, they just need to let all jackpots have an Equal Chance to Drop and do away with any weighted system they've been applying to them. We need to draft an Equal Rights amendment for Jackpots, lol.

Ronin9572
12-27-2016, 05:40 AM
To me, they just need to let all jackpots have an Equal Chance to Drop and do away with any weighted system they've been applying to them. We need to draft an Equal Rights amendment for Jackpots, lol.

Totally agree with you, this weighted RNG has to go! Not a single ERR or HCM drop for me this event, ridiculous! Thanks Trion for almost half my weapon drops being the darn blaster...

Princess Daisy
12-27-2016, 05:44 AM
This is a thing. I run 7 toons on PC-NA. So far out of 40 jps dropped 4 have been either Dasher, Comet, or Blitzen. That is a 10% chance to get a desirable JP. Before the patron providing karma thing I would bet that JPs were weighted equally. I get why this is done as it promotes some type of economy having rare, desirable weapons but don't you think there is a better system the game could implement? This is sort of a vent but more importantly maybe out of this comes a constructive discussion on how to better this for players forking over money for a patron pass monthly.

40 jps ... I must be doing something wrong. How many arkfalls have you gone to-- any idea what your average #arkfalls to jp is?

Just my two cents here:
The rng, rarity and drop system are in place for three reasons: to encourage addictive behavior, to create artificial scarcity and to increase bitbox sales. Really it's the third reason that's the most important to Trion. The entire game is designed to incentivize certain "whales" to pay for bits and patron while giving enough rng-lotto to retain a large f2p population in order to enrich the "whale's" game experience. IMO, the highly tuned rng-loot system is what makes this game more addictive than other pure PVP/PVE or MMO games. It's the primary reason why the game designers spend such a significant amount of time building in regular releases of newer, ever rarer items (e.g. supreme chips, superiority syn gear, rigs, supreme rolls etc). It's also why they periodically nerf entire weapon classes so that the player base is constantly in a mode of chasing gear, mods, rigs, chips, etc. The game isn't about reaching ego 6000, it's about the loot-chase. The large distribution of junk vs good jps reinforce that chase.

While there are ethical issues with encouraging addictive behaviors (especially for people that have spent thousands on this game), Trion's entire business revolves around a freemium purchase/subscription model. They are trying to make money through the top 5-10% of the playerbase that spends a lot of money collecting virtual items that are easy to build on Trion's game platform.

Most of the work for Trion these days consists of basic visual design and small 'configuration' or code changes that 1-2 developers can probably make in under a few days on top of Trion's game platform. The rest is just pure profit-- which is why the virtual goods business is so pervasive across the industry and in all of Trion's games.

YMMV, but if you got a short-list of the players that spend $200+ a month and made them request for features together, I'm certain it would be taken more seriously. Otherwise ... for the most part Trion's product leadership is looking at player spend, play time, new user acquisition, bitstore conversion rates and customer retention. I doubt they spend nearly as much time trying to ensure f2p or even PP players are getting "value" unless the other metrics are going the wrong way.

Ronin9572
12-27-2016, 06:31 AM
40 jps ... I must be doing something wrong. How many arkfalls have you gone to-- any idea what your average #arkfalls to jp is?

Just my two cents here:
The rng, rarity and drop system are in place for three reasons: to encourage addictive behavior, to create artificial scarcity and to increase user play time. All of these game mechanics serve to incentivize certain "whales" to pay for bits and patron while keeping enough interest to retain a large f2p population that enriches the game experience for the same set of high rollers by highlighting drop or bitbox scarcity. IMO, the highly tuned rng-loot system is what makes this game more addictive than other pure PVP/PVE or MMO games. It's the primary reason why the game designers spend such a significant amount of time building in regular releases of newer, ever rarer items (e.g. supreme chips, superiority syn gear, rigs, supreme rolls etc). It's also why they periodically nerf entire weapon classes so that the player base is constantly in a mode of chasing gear, mods, rigs, chips, etc. The game isn't about reaching ego 6000, it's about the loot-chase.

While there are ethical issues with encouraging addictive behaviors (especially for people that have spent thousands on this game), Trion's entire business revolves around a freemium purchase/subscription model. They are trying to make money through the top 5-10% of the playerbase that spends a lot of money collecting virtual items that are easy to build on Trion's game platform.

Most of the work for Trion consists of basic visual design and small 'configuration' or code changes that 1-2 developers a few hours to make on top of Trion's game platform. The rest is just pure profit-- which is why the virtual goods business is so pervasive across the industry and in all of Trion's games.

YMMV, but if you got a short-list of the players that spend $200+ a month and made them request for features together, I'm certain the game mechanics would be taken more seriously. Otherwise ... for the most part Trion's is looking at spend, play time, new user acquisition, bitstore conversion rates and customer retention. I doubt they spend nearly as much time trying to ensure f2p or even PP players are getting "value" unless the other metrics are going the wrong way.

Wow I just noticed that. Do all accounts have PP? I know you can run multiple tabs on pc, but this number seems nutty to me! JS

Fisherman Joe
12-27-2016, 09:03 AM
There's quite a few players on PC that run multiple accounts and pay for patron on all of them. Trion may not like the multiple account thing but I'm sure they're not minding it much if they are receiving 6, 7, or 8 times more patron purchases than they would get if only one account was allowed. It get's expensive though, forking out $216 every 3 months or $864 a year like some do is pricey (in my book).